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What constitutes a trade? (1 Viewer)

In a trade, do both parties need to send assets (player or picks)?

  • Yes, both teams should send either a player or a pick to constitute a trade

    Votes: 61 65.6%

  • No, one team could send nothing in a trade and receive a player and/or pick

    Votes: 25 26.9%

  • It needs to be determined on a case by case basis?

    Votes: 7 7.5%
  • Total voters
    93
M

Machiavelli

Footballguy
In a salary cap dynasty league, what constitutes a trade?

Should both teams involved in a trade have to send players and/or picks to receive players and/or picks?

 
there has to be value to both owners. you clearly have a loophole in mind and set up the poll to get the result you wanted, so why not just tell us the loophole and let us judge it on us own merits.

 
bostonfred said:
there has to be value to both owners. you clearly have a loophole in mind and set up the poll to get the result you wanted, so why not just tell us the loophole and let us judge it on us own merits.
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I was actually trying not to give too much information to influence people... :P

In our league (salary cap and dynasty) a trade went through in which 2 scrubs and 2 fourth round rookie picks (pretty worthless) were traded for nothing (save cap space that those players aren't taking up anymore). The one owner dumped the players and picks so that other team took on the salary. There is nothing in our existing rules that state that this is illegal, and the trade in my book is legit because of that. However, I firmly believe a rule should be instituted in which player and/or picks need to be exchanged for players and/or picks.

 
Machiavelli said:
bostonfred said:
there has to be value to both owners. you clearly have a loophole in mind and set up the poll to get the result you wanted, so why not just tell us the loophole and let us judge it on us own merits.
Click to expand...
I was actually trying not to give too much information to influence people... :P

In our league (salary cap and dynasty) a trade went through in which 2 scrubs and 2 fourth round rookie picks (pretty worthless) were traded for nothing (save cap space that those players aren't taking up anymore). The one owner dumped the players and picks so that other team took on the salary. There is nothing in our existing rules that state that this is illegal, and the trade in my book is legit because of that. However, I firmly believe a rule should be instituted in which player and/or picks need to be exchanged for players and/or picks.
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We had a similar situation, I was actually involved (ahem), and the league closed the loophole after that.

Each team should receive something, even in a salary dump, which is very common in cap leagues. A draft pick, something.

 
How does this work in the NBA, where salary dumps are common? Are guys ever traded for nothing or does something have to be sent back in return?

 
FreeBaGeL said:
How does this work in the NBA, where salary dumps are common? Are guys ever traded for nothing or does something have to be sent back in return?
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The Philadelphia 76ers have acquired JaVale McGee and a first-round pick from the Denver Nuggets in exchange for Cenk Akyol, according to Yahoo's Adrian Wojnarowski.It's an incredible trade for Philly.

Cenk Akyol is a 27-year-old Turkish player who was drafted in 2005 and will likely never play in the NBA.



He's only involved in the trade because NBA rules specify that each team must include something of value a current player, a pick, a prospect playing in a foreign league, or cash in every trade.

Denver, which is in rebuilding mode, made the trade to get rid of the $12 million that McGee is owed in 2015-16. In order to get rid of McGee, they had to include a first-round pick (which comes via Oklahoma City and is top-18 protected).

The trade was basically this: We'll give you a first-round pick to take JaVale McGee off our hands.

http://www.businessinsider.com/sixers-javale-mcgee-trade-2015-2

 
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Probably best to require something on each side, just to help limit some possible abuse.

 
Something of value was received on both sides (cap assistance for one, players for the other). In my book, it's a good trade.

In an example, the Rockets gave the Lakers a 1st round pick to take Jeramy Lin. Nothing back, just take him and go, please. The Rockets got what the wanted - salary cap space. Why can't a team in your league get the same thing?

 
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Yep, each team should have to give "something" in order for a "Trade" to work. Otherwise it is just a gift. A trade is an exchange, not just one team receiving something while the other gets nothing.

 
You could go through the motions of "requiring" a player (as the NBA trade included Cenk Akyol) or pick but then its just satisfying a technicality. Nothing is really accomplished.

If its a salary dump, could the team just release the player(s)?

I think the elephant in the room is the "C" word if teams can just give away players.

 
DropKick said:
You could go through the motions of "requiring" a player (as the NBA trade included Cenk Akyol) or pick but then its just satisfying a technicality. Nothing is really accomplished.

If its a salary dump, could the team just release the player(s)?

I think the elephant in the room is the "C" word if teams can just give away players.
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I think this is the key question here which could change the answer. If the answer is "no", then I'd say the trade is fine (assuming the "scrubs" really are scrubs.) If the answer is yes...then I'd say teh trade is not good, and shiould be considered collusion (although a relatively minor form of it.)

Difficult to evaluate without knowing all the associated rules of the league. Salary cap league trades are always more complicated.

 
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Machiavelli said:
In a salary cap dynasty league, what constitutes a trade?

Should both teams involved in a trade have to send players and/or picks to receive players and/or picks?
Click to expand...
I am in a league where it would make sense to deal a player for nothing in return as a salary cap dump, and the new team now has to take on that salary cap burden in the offseason.

So no, I dont think there has to be anything on one of the sides (assuming of course it isnt some trade rape issue).

If you start forcing it, people will just swap 7th rounds and make a mockery of it anyway

 
Machiavelli said:
bostonfred said:
there has to be value to both owners. you clearly have a loophole in mind and set up the poll to get the result you wanted, so why not just tell us the loophole and let us judge it on us own merits.
Click to expand...
I was actually trying not to give too much information to influence people... :P

In our league (salary cap and dynasty) a trade went through in which 2 scrubs and 2 fourth round rookie picks (pretty worthless) were traded for nothing (save cap space that those players aren't taking up anymore). The one owner dumped the players and picks so that other team took on the salary. There is nothing in our existing rules that state that this is illegal, and the trade in my book is legit because of that. However, I firmly believe a rule should be instituted in which player and/or picks need to be exchanged for players and/or picks.
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I had a player that sucked with a huge salary, and I wanted to trade that player along with like a 4th rounder to someone (for nothing) with a lot of cap space so that I could free up cap space of my own.

I didn't have any takers though.

Zero clue why you think or feel there has to be something on both sides. There is clearly value being exchanged to and from both sides in a deal like that.

 
ptsteelers said:
Yep, each team should have to give "something" in order for a "Trade" to work. Otherwise it is just a gift. A trade is an exchange, not just one team receiving something while the other gets nothing.
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I will give you my car. It's worth 10 grand but you have to take on the remaining 20 grand in payments.

If we did that, am I really getting nothing??

CMon

 
DropKick said:
You could go through the motions of "requiring" a player (as the NBA trade included Cenk Akyol) or pick but then its just satisfying a technicality. Nothing is really accomplished.

If its a salary dump, could the team just release the player(s)?

I think the elephant in the room is the "C" word if teams can just give away players.
Click to expand...
One of the leagues I am in has a salary cap hit for the next season if you drop players that have a certain salary or higher.

This is the reason a deal where I give a player for nothing, possibly even adding a pick on my end to get it done, makes sense, and should be perfectly legal.

 
The people voting that there must be assets on both sides of the trade have clearly never played in a salary cap or contract league. Sometimes getting nothing is the best asset you can ask for.

 
Jello_Biafra said:
The people voting that there must be assets on both sides of the trade have clearly never played in a salary cap or contract league. Sometimes getting nothing is the best asset you can ask for.
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I've been in a league like this you speak of and one where it was changed to not be legal. The way I think of it is if you can't dump players in trades, you have to find someone to take on your garbage-in exchange they want something. Result was 5-6 player trades rather than 2 but people still certainly made it work. It sure did seem a hindrance for like a week or so and was whined about, but ....never underestimate an FFers ability to make a trade. They'll work with whatever the rules are.

I think that's what the aforementioned NBA trade was too- in exchange for taking on my garbage you get...

As far as the thread, if the rules don't say, then it is legal. Put it through and then vote (or whatever the process) on a future rule change to close that loophole.

I remember a league where you had a set number of trades/waivers you could make (commish was whiny lazy as wife was preggo and...idk just came about amongst friends) Anyhow sometime late in the season, there was a five six team trade. Soandso goes to team one who send this guy to team two, who sends....according to the rules it counted as one move.

FF folks will find every loophole to make their team better. As long as it's not mean spirited, ya gotta put it through and even then....

 
Bri said:
Jello_Biafra said:
The people voting that there must be assets on both sides of the trade have clearly never played in a salary cap or contract league. Sometimes getting nothing is the best asset you can ask for.
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I've been in a league like this you speak of and one where it was changed to not be legal. The way I think of it is if you can't dump players in trades, you have to find someone to take on your garbage-in exchange they want something. Result was 5-6 player trades rather than 2 but people still certainly made it work. It sure did seem a hindrance for like a week or so and was whined about, but ....never underestimate an FFers ability to make a trade. They'll work with whatever the rules are.

I think that's what the aforementioned NBA trade was too- in exchange for taking on my garbage you get...

As far as the thread, if the rules don't say, then it is legal. Put it through and then vote (or whatever the process) on a future rule change to close that loophole.

I remember a league where you had a set number of trades/waivers you could make (commish was whiny lazy as wife was preggo and...idk just came about amongst friends) Anyhow sometime late in the season, there was a five six team trade. Soandso goes to team one who send this guy to team two, who sends....according to the rules it counted as one move.

FF folks will find every loophole to make their team better. As long as it's not mean spirited, ya gotta put it through and even then....
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Sounds a lot like purposely making FF not fun.

Keep it simple. Does it make sense for both sides?? Yes?? Good deal.

Lord

 
ghostguy123 said:
DropKick said:
You could go through the motions of "requiring" a player (as the NBA trade included Cenk Akyol) or pick but then its just satisfying a technicality. Nothing is really accomplished.

If its a salary dump, could the team just release the player(s)?

I think the elephant in the room is the "C" word if teams can just give away players.
Click to expand...
One of the leagues I am in has a salary cap hit for the next season if you drop players that have a certain salary or higher.

This is the reason a deal where I give a player for nothing, possibly even adding a pick on my end to get it done, makes sense, and should be perfectly legal.
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Yep

as long at its not collusion it should be allowed. One of my leagues doesn't allow this and I dislike that rule. Not enough to quit a fun league but it's a bad rule.

 
FUBAR said:
Yepas long at its not collusion it should be allowed. One of my leagues doesn't allow this and I dislike that rule. Not enough to quit a fun league but it's a bad rule.
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Weird that something that is a good strategy for you is illegal, with the rationale being that deals like that are bad for you. Odd.

Here you can take Titus Young and his 5% salary that i am stuck with in 2016, and along with that I will give you a 2016 4th round pick for your troubles of eating that 5% cap hit for a year, because I need to dump some cap..........wait, we can't do that??? Ok, let's swap 2017 7th round picks to make it "legal".

:nerd: :nerd: :nerd: :nerd: :nerd:

 
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anyone knows a trade is swapping of items. if no one is swapping anything its not a trade.

if an owner is giving up something in the future it needs to be noted.

these are never about the trade itself but about the owners and a good commissioner would know how to handle this.

never in my life have i seen someone ask what a trade is unless they never heard the word trade before because once explained its pretty cut an dry.

 
ghostguy123 said:
FUBAR said:
Yepas long at its not collusion it should be allowed. One of my leagues doesn't allow this and I dislike that rule. Not enough to quit a fun league but it's a bad rule.
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Weird that something that is a good strategy for you is illegal, with the rationale being that deals like that are bad for you. Odd.

Here you can take Titus Young and his 5% salary that i am stuck with in 2016, and along with that I will give you a 2016 4th round pick for your troubles of eating that 5% cap hit for a year, because I need to dump some cap..........wait, we can't do that??? Ok, let's swap 2017 7th round picks to make it "legal".

:nerd: :nerd: :nerd: :nerd: :nerd:
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Yeah, this. In theory, something should be traded from each side. But if you mandate it, all that will happen is that one of the teams will throw in the last valuable possible asset. So what's the point?

 
PatsWillWin said:
Yeah, this. In theory, something should be traded from each side. But if you mandate it, all that will happen is that one of the teams will throw in the last valuable possible asset. So what's the point?
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Agreed. And in a case like this one team is trading a player, the other is trading a roster spot and salary cap relief.

If anyone complains, ask them what they would give up for the player you traded away.

Something like this:

me- "So you are complaining that I traded away Tony Gonzalez (who is assured of retiring after the current year) and his 15% salary hit for next year and got NOTHING in return. I have to ask, what would you give me for Tony if I still had him"

complainer- "nothing"

me- "Then stop complaining you idiot"

 
Val Rannous said:
Something of value was received on both sides (cap assistance for one, players for the other). In my book, it's a good trade.

In an example, the Rockets gave the Lakers a 1st round pick to take Jeramy Lin. Nothing back, just take him and go, please. The Rockets got what the wanted - salary cap space. Why can't a team in your league get the same thing?
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The rockets actually send the trade rights for a player

 
If both teams feel like they came out ahead by making the deal, then it should be allowed. Liberating cap space is certainly a step forward for a team. If doing so required sending players/picks to do so, and if saving cap space couldn't simply be accomplished by dropping players, then it validates the argument that a legitimate transaction took place.

 
ghostguy123 said:
ptsteelers said:
Yep, each team should have to give "something" in order for a "Trade" to work. Otherwise it is just a gift. A trade is an exchange, not just one team receiving something while the other gets nothing.
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I will give you my car. It's worth 10 grand but you have to take on the remaining 20 grand in payments.

If we did that, am I really getting nothing??

CMon
Click to expand...
Question - Are you getting the remaining payments I am making? No? Then yes, you are getting nothing. You are saving money, but I am not giving you anything.

How about this ... if you just give me a car, that is a gift.

If you give me your car and I give you my Harley, that is a trade.

 
VarsityBlues123 said:
anyone knows a trade is swapping of items. if no one is swapping anything its not a trade.

if an owner is giving up something in the future it needs to be noted.

these are never about the trade itself but about the owners and a good commissioner would know how to handle this.

never in my life have i seen someone ask what a trade is unless they never heard the word trade before because once explained its pretty cut an dry.
Click to expand...
ptsteelers said:
ghostguy123 said:
ptsteelers said:
Yep, each team should have to give "something" in order for a "Trade" to work. Otherwise it is just a gift. A trade is an exchange, not just one team receiving something while the other gets nothing.
Click to expand...
I will give you my car. It's worth 10 grand but you have to take on the remaining 20 grand in payments.

If we did that, am I really getting nothing??

CMon
Click to expand...
Question - Are you getting the remaining payments I am making? No? Then yes, you are getting nothing. You are saving money, but I am not giving you anything.

How about this ... if you just give me a car, that is a gift.

If you give me your car and I give you my Harley, that is a trade.
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People really don't get the concept here. You would in essence be giving GG the $20k as he would no longer have that liability, you would.

 
Hypothetical: Team A is playing team B. You own one of team A's future draft picks. Would it be ok to trade team B a defense (it's your backup defense but has a really juicy match up this week) for nothing? Is gaining "a slight chance at a better draft pick" something of value?

Just curious.

 
frigid5 said:
Hypothetical: Team A is playing team B. You own one of team A's future draft picks. Would it be ok to trade team B a defense (it's your backup defense but has a really juicy match up this week) for nothing? Is gaining "a slight chance at a better draft pick" something of value?

Just curious.
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Seems completely different.

 
ptsteelers said:
ghostguy123 said:
ptsteelers said:
Yep, each team should have to give "something" in order for a "Trade" to work. Otherwise it is just a gift. A trade is an exchange, not just one team receiving something while the other gets nothing.
Click to expand...
I will give you my car. It's worth 10 grand but you have to take on the remaining 20 grand in payments.

If we did that, am I really getting nothing??

CMon
Click to expand...
Question - Are you getting the remaining payments I am making? No? Then yes, you are getting nothing. You are saving money, but I am not giving you anything.

How about this ... if you just give me a car, that is a gift.

If you give me your car and I give you my Harley, that is a trade.
Click to expand...
Nice try, but wow. No idea how you dont grasp this.

 
I swear major league baseball does this with overpriced players at times where a team gives a player and cash in exchange for nothing

 
ghostguy123 said:
frigid5 said:
Hypothetical: Team A is playing team B. You own one of team A's future draft picks. Would it be ok to trade team B a defense (it's your backup defense but has a really juicy match up this week) for nothing? Is gaining "a slight chance at a better draft pick" something of value?

Just curious.
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Seems completely different.
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Completely different from what? I'm just asking a question. What do you think about the hypothetical I presented?

 
FUBAR said:
VarsityBlues123 said:
anyone knows a trade is swapping of items. if no one is swapping anything its not a trade.

if an owner is giving up something in the future it needs to be noted.

these are never about the trade itself but about the owners and a good commissioner would know how to handle this.

never in my life have i seen someone ask what a trade is unless they never heard the word trade before because once explained its pretty cut an dry.
Click to expand...
ptsteelers said:
ghostguy123 said:
ptsteelers said:
Yep, each team should have to give "something" in order for a "Trade" to work. Otherwise it is just a gift. A trade is an exchange, not just one team receiving something while the other gets nothing.
Click to expand...
I will give you my car. It's worth 10 grand but you have to take on the remaining 20 grand in payments.

If we did that, am I really getting nothing??

CMon
Click to expand...
Question - Are you getting the remaining payments I am making? No? Then yes, you are getting nothing. You are saving money, but I am not giving you anything.

How about this ... if you just give me a car, that is a gift.

If you give me your car and I give you my Harley, that is a trade.
Click to expand...
People really don't get the concept here. You would in essence be giving GG the $20k as he would no longer have that liability, you would.
Click to expand...
Less the value of the car... so just 10K

Prior to the deal, GG is 10K in the hole - he has a liability of 20K (loan) and an asset of 10K (car). He is "even" after the deal.

 
Not sure. I would have to think about it. But offhand it seems like i would not be in favor of that type of deal being allowed.

I see a huge difference in trading for salary cap relief rather than trading to screw a team over cause u have their pick.

In that case you do not get a calculated tangible return such as cap relief.

Maybe i will try to explain myself better later. Been up 20 hours.

 
ghostguy123 said:
ptsteelers said:
ghostguy123 said:
ptsteelers said:
Yep, each team should have to give "something" in order for a "Trade" to work. Otherwise it is just a gift. A trade is an exchange, not just one team receiving something while the other gets nothing.
Click to expand...
I will give you my car. It's worth 10 grand but you have to take on the remaining 20 grand in payments.

If we did that, am I really getting nothing??

CMon
Click to expand...
Question - Are you getting the remaining payments I am making? No? Then yes, you are getting nothing. You are saving money, but I am not giving you anything.

How about this ... if you just give me a car, that is a gift.

If you give me your car and I give you my Harley, that is a trade.
Click to expand...
Nice try, but wow. No idea how you dont grasp this.
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Really?

You're the one trying to bring in real world metaphors into a discussion on fantasy football. :)

If you make (for ease of conversation) $100 a week and you bought a car that costs you $5 a week and then you return the car (or have someone take over the payments), are you making more money? No, you have "gained" nothing. You have saved money, but you have not gained a thing. You are still making the same $100 a week.

The question was "Should both teams involved in a trade have to send players and/or picks to receive players and/or picks?" and my answer was "each team should have to give "something" in order for a "Trade" to work". That is it.

That is a trade. If you give someone else the players and receive nothing in return, it is NOT a "trade".

If you give someone players to just save you money, it is just saving you money. You could just as easily dropped said players and have the same end result. You would be saving the money. That's all I'm saying.

We are going over something silly as what constitutes a trade, so I will just leave it at that. Sorry if you don't get what I am trying to say. I will blame myself and move on. Peace.

 
DropKick said:
FUBAR said:
VarsityBlues123 said:
anyone knows a trade is swapping of items. if no one is swapping anything its not a trade.

if an owner is giving up something in the future it needs to be noted.

these are never about the trade itself but about the owners and a good commissioner would know how to handle this.

never in my life have i seen someone ask what a trade is unless they never heard the word trade before because once explained its pretty cut an dry.
Click to expand...
ptsteelers said:
ghostguy123 said:
ptsteelers said:
Yep, each team should have to give "something" in order for a "Trade" to work. Otherwise it is just a gift. A trade is an exchange, not just one team receiving something while the other gets nothing.
Click to expand...
I will give you my car. It's worth 10 grand but you have to take on the remaining 20 grand in payments.

If we did that, am I really getting nothing??

CMon
Click to expand...
Question - Are you getting the remaining payments I am making? No? Then yes, you are getting nothing. You are saving money, but I am not giving you anything.

How about this ... if you just give me a car, that is a gift.

If you give me your car and I give you my Harley, that is a trade.
Click to expand...
People really don't get the concept here. You would in essence be giving GG the $20k as he would no longer have that liability, you would.
Click to expand...
Less the value of the car... so just 10K

Prior to the deal, GG is 10K in the hole - he has a liability of 20K (loan) and an asset of 10K (car). He is "even" after the deal.
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Yes, his question was "If we did that, am I really getting nothing??" so the answer is yes. He is returning to his starting point. He is even. he "gets" nothing.

But again, ha, I'm done. Sorry guys, forget it, Sorry for all the ruckus and going all over the place. My bad. All good. See in another thread :-)

 
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sorry that you dont understand that myself and others have already said that this should NOT be allowed if you are able to just simply drop a player for salary relief. Some leagues do not work that way. Some leagues have a salary cap hit for that.

I get what you are saying, you just arent talking about applicable scenarios and league structures.

Plus.....a penny saved is a penny earned....amirite?

 
ptsteelers said:
DropKick said:
FUBAR said:
VarsityBlues123 said:
anyone knows a trade is swapping of items. if no one is swapping anything its not a trade.

if an owner is giving up something in the future it needs to be noted.

these are never about the trade itself but about the owners and a good commissioner would know how to handle this.

never in my life have i seen someone ask what a trade is unless they never heard the word trade before because once explained its pretty cut an dry.
Click to expand...
ptsteelers said:
ghostguy123 said:
ptsteelers said:
Yep, each team should have to give "something" in order for a "Trade" to work. Otherwise it is just a gift. A trade is an exchange, not just one team receiving something while the other gets nothing.
Click to expand...
I will give you my car. It's worth 10 grand but you have to take on the remaining 20 grand in payments.

If we did that, am I really getting nothing??

CMon
Click to expand...
Question - Are you getting the remaining payments I am making? No? Then yes, you are getting nothing. You are saving money, but I am not giving you anything.

How about this ... if you just give me a car, that is a gift.

If you give me your car and I give you my Harley, that is a trade.
Click to expand...
People really don't get the concept here. You would in essence be giving GG the $20k as he would no longer have that liability, you would.
Click to expand...
Less the value of the car... so just 10K

Prior to the deal, GG is 10K in the hole - he has a liability of 20K (loan) and an asset of 10K (car). He is "even" after the deal.
Click to expand...
Yes, his question was "If we did that, am I really getting nothing??" so the answer is yes. He is returning to his starting point. He is even. he "gets" nothing.But again, ha, I'm done. Sorry guys, forget it, Sorry for all the ruckus and going all over the place. My bad. All good. See in another thread :-)
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That isnt "nothing". Its called a transaction that benefits my salary cap situation and my team.He would be GIVING me salary cap relief that i can not get by dropping the player.

But i can swap 7ths with the guy if that will toot your horn or whatever.

This is so tragically simple.

 
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Machiavelli said:
In a salary cap dynasty league, what constitutes a trade?

Should both teams involved in a trade have to send players and/or picks to receive players and/or picks?
Click to expand...
I need to brush up on my english language

 
ghostguy123 said:
sorry that you dont understand that myself and others have already said that this should NOT be allowed if you are able to just simply drop a player for salary relief. Some leagues do not work that way. Some leagues have a salary cap hit for that.

I get what you are saying, you just arent talking about applicable scenarios and league structures.

Plus.....a penny saved is a penny earned....amirite?
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Ha, sure is. "But it isn't traded"

Okay, I'll stop.

:D

I know I was just getting technical with what the term "Trade" meant. Again, all good.

 
ghostguy123 said:
Machiavelli said:
In a salary cap dynasty league, what constitutes a trade?

Should both teams involved in a trade have to send players and/or picks to receive players and/or picks?
Click to expand...
I am in a league where it would make sense to deal a player for nothing in return as a salary cap dump, and the new team now has to take on that salary cap burden in the offseason.

So no, I dont think there has to be anything on one of the sides (assuming of course it isnt some trade rape issue).

If you start forcing it, people will just swap 7th rounds and make a mockery of it anyway
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I am in this camp of thought. The team receiving "nothing" actually received cap relief. I do not play is salary cap leagues but I suspect that cap is a big deal to the team receiving nothing.

 
thought I was the only one in this camp

always believed xmas 'gifts' were more a trade of goods for the satisfaction of trading said goods.

 
I'm with Ghost and everyone else, I play in 2 salary cap league and often trades go through with nothing coming from one side. I had won a title last offseason and had some roster scrap I wanted rid of, about 5% of the cap, I sent the rubbish with a 4th rounder to a rebuilding team. I received roster spots and cap relief, just because they aren't listed on the MFL transaction doesn't mean those things haven't been dealt. My trade partner cut the roster rubbish at a 3% cap penalty that season and 2% the next. He's rebuilding so that space is nothing to him, I gave up a 4th that isn't likely to help my challenge and gained cap space for the upcoming FA auction. To suggest the other person doesn't get anything from the trade is incredibly short sighted bordering on myopic.

If you institute a rule like something has to be listed on each side of the transaction then you will just see 7th rounders or bottom of the roster guys getting moved to keep things legal, which is just as dumb as the NBA rule where a guy like Cenk Akyol is on the transaction for no reason other than to satisfy a rule, he's never going to play in the NBA so what's the point? It's a dumb rule that will just get circumvented if you put it in place.

 
ghostguy123 said:
Bri said:
Jello_Biafra said:
The people voting that there must be assets on both sides of the trade have clearly never played in a salary cap or contract league. Sometimes getting nothing is the best asset you can ask for.
Click to expand...
I've been in a league like this you speak of and one where it was changed to not be legal. The way I think of it is if you can't dump players in trades, you have to find someone to take on your garbage-in exchange they want something. Result was 5-6 player trades rather than 2 but people still certainly made it work. It sure did seem a hindrance for like a week or so and was whined about, but ....never underestimate an FFers ability to make a trade. They'll work with whatever the rules are.

I think that's what the aforementioned NBA trade was too- in exchange for taking on my garbage you get...

As far as the thread, if the rules don't say, then it is legal. Put it through and then vote (or whatever the process) on a future rule change to close that loophole.

I remember a league where you had a set number of trades/waivers you could make (commish was whiny lazy as wife was preggo and...idk just came about amongst friends) Anyhow sometime late in the season, there was a five six team trade. Soandso goes to team one who send this guy to team two, who sends....according to the rules it counted as one move.

FF folks will find every loophole to make their team better. As long as it's not mean spirited, ya gotta put it through and even then....
Click to expand...
Sounds a lot like purposely making FF not fun.

Keep it simple. Does it make sense for both sides?? Yes?? Good deal.

Lord
Click to expand...
It was though. You take away the can't trade nothing aspect and people will whine for a week, then trade garbage for garbage. They'll adjust. Good ff people have zero issues figuring out how to trade.

You have some "if we can't trade nothing, how will we clear up cap space" worries that will go away once your league trades garbage for garbage.

If you have three schlubs at a 5 salary for a total of 15 weighing you down. Another team only has one stinker at 5. You trade player A who is better than player B and throw those stinkers in to even it out. I'm telling ya it's very doable and only seems like "OMG we can't trade cap space" for a week, then people figure it out.

 
ptsteelers said:
DropKick said:
FUBAR said:
VarsityBlues123 said:
anyone knows a trade is swapping of items. if no one is swapping anything its not a trade.

if an owner is giving up something in the future it needs to be noted.

these are never about the trade itself but about the owners and a good commissioner would know how to handle this.

never in my life have i seen someone ask what a trade is unless they never heard the word trade before because once explained its pretty cut an dry.
Click to expand...
ptsteelers said:
ghostguy123 said:
ptsteelers said:
Yep, each team should have to give "something" in order for a "Trade" to work. Otherwise it is just a gift. A trade is an exchange, not just one team receiving something while the other gets nothing.
Click to expand...
I will give you my car. It's worth 10 grand but you have to take on the remaining 20 grand in payments.

If we did that, am I really getting nothing??

CMon
Click to expand...
Question - Are you getting the remaining payments I am making? No? Then yes, you are getting nothing. You are saving money, but I am not giving you anything.

How about this ... if you just give me a car, that is a gift.

If you give me your car and I give you my Harley, that is a trade.
Click to expand...
People really don't get the concept here. You would in essence be giving GG the $20k as he would no longer have that liability, you would.
Click to expand...
Less the value of the car... so just 10K

Prior to the deal, GG is 10K in the hole - he has a liability of 20K (loan) and an asset of 10K (car). He is "even" after the deal.
Click to expand...
Yes, his question was "If we did that, am I really getting nothing??" so the answer is yes. He is returning to his starting point. He is even. he "gets" nothing.But again, ha, I'm done. Sorry guys, forget it, Sorry for all the ruckus and going all over the place. My bad. All good. See in another thread :-)
Click to expand...
:shrug: he gains someone taking over his debt.

If I owe Sam $10; you and I agree that I'll mow your lawn and in return you'll pay Sam $10, that's a fair deal With something of value on all sides even though you didn't give me cash.

 
ptsteelers said:
ghostguy123 said:
ptsteelers said:
Yep, each team should have to give "something" in order for a "Trade" to work. Otherwise it is just a gift. A trade is an exchange, not just one team receiving something while the other gets nothing.
Click to expand...
I will give you my car. It's worth 10 grand but you have to take on the remaining 20 grand in payments.

If we did that, am I really getting nothing??

CMon
Click to expand...
Question - Are you getting the remaining payments I am making? No? Then yes, you are getting nothing. You are saving money, but I am not giving you anything.

How about this ... if you just give me a car, that is a gift.

If you give me your car and I give you my Harley, that is a trade.
Click to expand...
:lmao:

If you give me a car that still has payments left, it's not a gift. I am giving you debt relief in exchange for the car. Value for value. That is a trade.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Christo said:
ptsteelers said:
ghostguy123 said:
ptsteelers said:
Yep, each team should have to give "something" in order for a "Trade" to work. Otherwise it is just a gift. A trade is an exchange, not just one team receiving something while the other gets nothing.
Click to expand...
I will give you my car. It's worth 10 grand but you have to take on the remaining 20 grand in payments.

If we did that, am I really getting nothing??

CMon
Click to expand...
Question - Are you getting the remaining payments I am making? No? Then yes, you are getting nothing. You are saving money, but I am not giving you anything.

How about this ... if you just give me a car, that is a gift.

If you give me your car and I give you my Harley, that is a trade.
Click to expand...
:lmao: If you give me a car that still has payments left, it's not a gift. I am giving you debt relief in exchange for the car. Value for value. That is a trade.
Click to expand...
Worst Christmas gift ever.

 
ptsteelers said:
ghostguy123 said:
sorry that you dont understand that myself and others have already said that this should NOT be allowed if you are able to just simply drop a player for salary relief. Some leagues do not work that way. Some leagues have a salary cap hit for that.

I get what you are saying, you just arent talking about applicable scenarios and league structures.

Plus.....a penny saved is a penny earned....amirite?
Click to expand...
Ha, sure is. "But it isn't traded"

Okay, I'll stop.

:D

I know I was just getting technical with what the term "Trade" meant. Again, all good.
Click to expand...
Good job ignoring the other part of that post. Ya know, the actual important part.....again

 
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