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DE Leonard Williams, SEA (1 Viewer)

I don't see this guy slipping past #2. Question is whether Tenn takes him or someone trades up to get him.

Why wouldn't Tenn take him?

 
I don't see this guy slipping past #2. Question is whether Tenn takes him or someone trades up to get him.

Why wouldn't Tenn take him?
If they were sold on Mariota being their QB or a team willing to move up to their pick.

Teams may be willing to move up for Williams as well.

 
I don't see this guy slipping past #2. Question is whether Tenn takes him or someone trades up to get him.

Why wouldn't Tenn take him?
If they were sold on Mariota being their QB or a team willing to move up to their pick.

Teams may be willing to move up for Williams as well.
It's a pretty terrible move to trade up to the #2 spot in the draft to pick a non QB.

 
If I were Tampa, Id take him #1 and be done with it. Or trade #1 to Tenn and take him at #2. Tampa's D could be ridiculous with this guy, and Glennon is good enough to pilot the ship. Heck, give him a year or two, and he could be better than "good enough".

 
If I were Tampa, Id take him #1 and be done with it. Or trade #1 to Tenn and take him at #2. Tampa's D could be ridiculous with this guy, and Glennon is good enough to pilot the ship. Heck, give him a year or two, and he could be better than "good enough".
But if Tampa thought like this, they wouldn't finish seasons 2-14 and be in position to make that selection in the first place.

 
If I were Tampa, Id take him #1 and be done with it. Or trade #1 to Tenn and take him at #2. Tampa's D could be ridiculous with this guy, and Glennon is good enough to pilot the ship. Heck, give him a year or two, and he could be better than "good enough".
But if Tampa thought like this, they wouldn't finish seasons 2-14 and be in position to make that selection in the first place.
Let's make some stuff clear here. #1. Great front 7's don't win you championships in a passing league, ask Carolina. #2. Yes Glennon is a capable QB, with the right coaches, I could see him peaking out at a Phillip Rivers type level. #3. Adding this guy will not make Tampa's D Baltimore, Seattle, or '02 Tampa level. Need more talent in the secondary, even more now as they just traded Goldson this morning. #4. They still don't even have close to a semi-capable o-line to either run or pass efficiently.

 
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Milkman said:
Biabreakable said:
LawFitz said:
I don't see this guy slipping past #2. Question is whether Tenn takes him or someone trades up to get him.

Why wouldn't Tenn take him?
If they were sold on Mariota being their QB or a team willing to move up to their pick.

Teams may be willing to move up for Williams as well.
It's a pretty terrible move to trade up to the #2 spot in the draft to pick a non QB.
That would depend on the price. It usually is bad business to trade up to the top of the draft of course. But if a team views Williams as a prospect similar to JJ Watt (not saying Williams is that just if they do) then the team may be willing to give up value for the opportunity to draft him.

There may be other players such as Cooper that teams may be willing to move up for as well. As we saw the Bills do to get Watkins last year.

I think the Bills paid too much to move up for Watkins as it seems teams who move up in this area often do. Doesn't mean team won't still do it if they really fall in love with a specific player. Williams may be one of those players.

 
Rotoworld:

Leonard Williams - DL - Trojans

ESPN's Kevin Weidl compares USC DL Leonard Williams to Cameron Jordan, while ESPN's Stats & Information Group likens him to a cross between Gerald McCoy and Muhammad Wilkerson.

"I don't think either McCoy or Wilkerson is a great comparison here from a style-of-play standpoint," Weidl wrote. "The player I would compare Williams to is a bigger version of Jordan. Both possess heavy hands and use their length well to stack defenders and find the ball. In addition, they have the lateral range to make plays down the line of scrimmage and provide a pass rush element." Countered S&I's John Parolin: "Williams profiles closely to McCoy and Wilkerson (almost a cross between the two). McCoy is slightly smaller physically across the board and a little slower, but has better burst (superior vertical and broad jumps at his combine), while Wilkerson is almost the perfect inverse of that."

Source: ESPN Insider

Apr 3 - 7:56 PM
 
... There may be other players such as Cooper that teams may be willing to move up for as well. As we saw the Bills do to get Watkins last year.

I think the Bills paid too much to move up for Watkins as it seems teams who move up in this area often do. Doesn't mean team won't still do it if they really fall in love with a specific player. Williams may be one of those players.
I think its possible that a team might trade up a lil-bit for an Amari Cooper or a Kevin White provided they already have their QB firmly in place.

If the Bills had a QB firmly in place last year then I would not think the Bills paid too much to move-up for Sammy Watkins but they lack an established quarterback and now they don't even have a first round pick. Considering the Bills QB situation they paid too much to move-up for a WR.

Now consider the Vikings who got their QB last year and who could use a top notch WR talent. I don't think if they sit tight that one of the top-two WRs fall to their #11 pick. Also in the last three draft their GM Rick Spielman has made an astounding 7 first round picks but only once did he sit tight and wait to make his pick in the original spot he held before the draft. Six times he made trades and picked in a different spot or moved-up back into the bottom of the first round. He's ultra aggressive in the first round but this time he's got his QB and he lacks a big-play WR.

No one is really talking about the Vikings moving-up for a WR. They wouldn't have to move-up too far or pay that much and they not only have a need but their GM has a well established track record of making moves in the first round. Oh and since he took over as the GM in 2007 the Vikings have drafted offensive skill positions 8 times in either the first or second round, three of those picks were on WRs, Sidney Rice 2nd round 2007, Percy Harvin 1st round 2009, Corderrelle Patterson 2013, and he used another first round pick on a Kyle Rudolph receiving TE in the 2nd round of 2011 and he has probably been frustrated by the results.

I could see him moving up and finally getting his big play #1 WR in this draft. He's finally got his QB and now he has to get him weapons but if he sits at the #11 spot he will likely miss out on both Amari Cooper and Kevin White so I think it makes sense that he would want to move up to assure getting one of those guys.

 
I don't see this guy slipping past #2. Question is whether Tenn takes him or someone trades up to get him.

Why wouldn't Tenn take him?
If they were sold on Mariota being their QB or a team willing to move up to their pick.

Teams may be willing to move up for Williams as well.
It's a pretty terrible move to trade up to the #2 spot in the draft to pick a non QB.
That would depend on the price. It usually is bad business to trade up to the top of the draft of course. But if a team views Williams as a prospect similar to JJ Watt (not saying Williams is that just if they do) then the team may be willing to give up value for the opportunity to draft him.

There may be other players such as Cooper that teams may be willing to move up for as well. As we saw the Bills do to get Watkins last year.

I think the Bills paid too much to move up for Watkins as it seems teams who move up in this area often do. Doesn't mean team won't still do it if they really fall in love with a specific player. Williams may be one of those players.
An elite defensive player is just not worth enough wins to move up in the first for him. I mean if you already had a franchise QB then maybe but it's terrible anyway you look at it if a team without a franchise QB paid the high price it cost to move up and draft a DE.

Take Watt for instance, he's one of the best defensive players "ever" and he was on a 2 win team in 2013. Take Watt off that team and replace him with any of the top 5 QB that year and Houston wins 8-9 more games. The only position worth moving up for in the 1st round is QB.

 
... There may be other players such as Cooper that teams may be willing to move up for as well. As we saw the Bills do to get Watkins last year.

I think the Bills paid too much to move up for Watkins as it seems teams who move up in this area often do. Doesn't mean team won't still do it if they really fall in love with a specific player. Williams may be one of those players.
I think its possible that a team might trade up a lil-bit for an Amari Cooper or a Kevin White provided they already have their QB firmly in place.

If the Bills had a QB firmly in place last year then I would not think the Bills paid too much to move-up for Sammy Watkins but they lack an established quarterback and now they don't even have a first round pick. Considering the Bills QB situation they paid too much to move-up for a WR.

Now consider the Vikings who got their QB last year and who could use a top notch WR talent. I don't think if they sit tight that one of the top-two WRs fall to their #11 pick. Also in the last three draft their GM Rick Spielman has made an astounding 7 first round picks but only once did he sit tight and wait to make his pick in the original spot he held before the draft. Six times he made trades and picked in a different spot or moved-up back into the bottom of the first round. He's ultra aggressive in the first round but this time he's got his QB and he lacks a big-play WR.

No one is really talking about the Vikings moving-up for a WR. They wouldn't have to move-up too far or pay that much and they not only have a need but their GM has a well established track record of making moves in the first round. Oh and since he took over as the GM in 2007 the Vikings have drafted offensive skill positions 8 times in either the first or second round, three of those picks were on WRs, Sidney Rice 2nd round 2007, Percy Harvin 1st round 2009, Corderrelle Patterson 2013, and he used another first round pick on a Kyle Rudolph receiving TE in the 2nd round of 2011 and he has probably been frustrated by the results.

I could see him moving up and finally getting his big play #1 WR in this draft. He's finally got his QB and now he has to get him weapons but if he sits at the #11 spot he will likely miss out on both Amari Cooper and Kevin White so I think it makes sense that he would want to move up to assure getting one of those guys.
I posted this in the Vikings thread recently. A pretty detailed look at Rick Spielmans moves since becoming the GM.

The first point is that the Vikings have been very aggressive drafting offensive skill players in the first two rounds. However the only times the Vikings have traded up was when they moved up to draft Toby Gerhart in 2010 and when they traded multiple lower picks with NE to move up and draft Patterson at pick 29.

For the most part the Vikings have held their 1st round pick or moved down.

The Gerhart trade (and most of the 2010 draft) didn't make a lot of sense. The Vikings had Brett Favre coming off one of his best seasons and the Vikings seemed to think they had no glaring needs. They did get Everson Griffen in the 4th round that year.

The Patterson deal made him the Vikings 3rd 1st round pick in 2013. This was following the Percy Harvin trade. So the Vikings were looking to replace him.

So I do not see the Vikings trading up for a WR or a RB.. But they might consider those positions at pick 11 or later if they trade down.

Another thing is Spielman has stated before that he wan't to go into each draft with 10 picks. Currently he only has seven picks. So a trade down for additional picks may be the goal here. Part of what he uses the extra picks for is to make moves into the bottom of the 1st round.

 
... There may be other players such as Cooper that teams may be willing to move up for as well. As we saw the Bills do to get Watkins last year.

I think the Bills paid too much to move up for Watkins as it seems teams who move up in this area often do. Doesn't mean team won't still do it if they really fall in love with a specific player. Williams may be one of those players.
I think its possible that a team might trade up a lil-bit for an Amari Cooper or a Kevin White provided they already have their QB firmly in place.

If the Bills had a QB firmly in place last year then I would not think the Bills paid too much to move-up for Sammy Watkins but they lack an established quarterback and now they don't even have a first round pick. Considering the Bills QB situation they paid too much to move-up for a WR.
They drafted QB, WR, WR in rounds 1,2,3 then followed that up with going for the top WR (predraft) and a supposed sure-thing who did net almost 1000 yards as a rook. Before Beckham took the NFL by storm, Watkins was adored.

Last year they also took 3 linemen and Cyrus being just a backup RT is terrible BUT he is backing up their 7th rounder from that same draft. Hit and miss in the same draft isn't so brutal I guess.

Somewhere in there, they drafted Alonso, but they went all out to improve their offense. It took some time for Manuel to fall out of favor. Eli was arguably the worst rookie QB ever so how exactly do you gauge a rook's performance with enough weight to say "nah don't go get the sure thing WR?"

 
I don't see this guy slipping past #2. Question is whether Tenn takes him or someone trades up to get him.

Why wouldn't Tenn take him?
If they were sold on Mariota being their QB or a team willing to move up to their pick.

Teams may be willing to move up for Williams as well.
It's a pretty terrible move to trade up to the #2 spot in the draft to pick a non QB.
That would depend on the price. It usually is bad business to trade up to the top of the draft of course. But if a team views Williams as a prospect similar to JJ Watt (not saying Williams is that just if they do) then the team may be willing to give up value for the opportunity to draft him.

There may be other players such as Cooper that teams may be willing to move up for as well. As we saw the Bills do to get Watkins last year.

I think the Bills paid too much to move up for Watkins as it seems teams who move up in this area often do. Doesn't mean team won't still do it if they really fall in love with a specific player. Williams may be one of those players.
An elite defensive player is just not worth enough wins to move up in the first for him. I mean if you already had a franchise QB then maybe but it's terrible anyway you look at it if a team without a franchise QB paid the high price it cost to move up and draft a DE.

Take Watt for instance, he's one of the best defensive players "ever" and he was on a 2 win team in 2013. Take Watt off that team and replace him with any of the top 5 QB that year and Houston wins 8-9 more games. The only position worth moving up for in the 1st round is QB.
After Bruce Smith and Reggie White, there's no way Packers or Bills fans complain if Leonard Williams is the real deal. Further, I've never read a Texans fan saying "we should have taken" instead of Watt.

There's other rounds, there's free agency....if you can get greatness, you get it. The rest is supposed to work itself out. Their personnel guys and GMs should be capable of landing a QB.

After 10,000 articles, what'd Mallett do? Andre seemed to want to walk last summer, now he's gone. Not long ago DeMeco Ryans was a stud and he's not with them. Owen Daniels was a good to very good TE, not dominant but could be very effective. He's gone. The Texans have issues. Titans under Fisher, Browns for "forever" ...many teams seem to tread water; they can't figure out how to improve but instead spend drafts replacing positions they had.

After the last draft, I'd have figured you jumped on their first round pick rather than Watt.

Anyhow, the Jets needed a QB and didn't really get one. They also needed a sound offense that didn't always look like it was in disarray. I don't think Brady or Brees would have helped the Jets as you suggest with Buffalo/Texans. I think one of them would have walked off the field or we'd be reading about major disagreements with the OC. That Jet offense was an utter mess.

Rex does not appear to be building anything different in Buffalo. Cassell, as overmatched as he may be, might offer some hope. He may be a veteran with enough experience where his voice is heard in meetings and they can run an offense like a normal NFL team. It might not happen, it might be year two and they're like "Matt was right" but you could draw up plays in the dirt and have a better more organized offense than what the Jets had last year.

5 years ago, if I told you Vick, CJ and Percy would be on the same team and their O would stink....

Manuel has as much chance of making sense of that offense as Geno did. No rook will fix that either. Every ounce of confusion that Rex is wonderful at creating with his Ds is absolutely brutal on O. He needs to be hands off if he's going to be successful as a coach.

 
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Bri said:
I don't see this guy slipping past #2. Question is whether Tenn takes him or someone trades up to get him.

Why wouldn't Tenn take him?
If they were sold on Mariota being their QB or a team willing to move up to their pick.

Teams may be willing to move up for Williams as well.
It's a pretty terrible move to trade up to the #2 spot in the draft to pick a non QB.
That would depend on the price. It usually is bad business to trade up to the top of the draft of course. But if a team views Williams as a prospect similar to JJ Watt (not saying Williams is that just if they do) then the team may be willing to give up value for the opportunity to draft him.

There may be other players such as Cooper that teams may be willing to move up for as well. As we saw the Bills do to get Watkins last year.

I think the Bills paid too much to move up for Watkins as it seems teams who move up in this area often do. Doesn't mean team won't still do it if they really fall in love with a specific player. Williams may be one of those players.
An elite defensive player is just not worth enough wins to move up in the first for him. I mean if you already had a franchise QB then maybe but it's terrible anyway you look at it if a team without a franchise QB paid the high price it cost to move up and draft a DE.

Take Watt for instance, he's one of the best defensive players "ever" and he was on a 2 win team in 2013. Take Watt off that team and replace him with any of the top 5 QB that year and Houston wins 8-9 more games. The only position worth moving up for in the 1st round is QB.
After Bruce Smith and Reggie White, there's no way Packers or Bills fans complain if Leonard Williams is the real deal. Further, I've never read a Texans fan saying "we should have taken" instead of Watt.

There's other rounds, there's free agency....if you can get greatness, you get it. The rest is supposed to work itself out. Their personnel guys and GMs should be capable of landing a QB.

After 10,000 articles, what'd Mallett do? Andre seemed to want to walk last summer, now he's gone. Not long ago DeMeco Ryans was a stud and he's not with them. Owen Daniels was a good to very good TE, not dominant but could be very effective. He's gone. The Texans have issues. Titans under Fisher, Browns for "forever" ...many teams seem to tread water; they can't figure out how to improve but instead spend drafts replacing positions they had.

After the last draft, I'd have figured you jumped on their first round pick rather than Watt.

Anyhow, the Jets needed a QB and didn't really get one. They also needed a sound offense that didn't always look like it was in disarray. I don't think Brady or Brees would have helped the Jets as you suggest with Buffalo/Texans. I think one of them would have walked off the field or we'd be reading about major disagreements with the OC. That Jet offense was an utter mess.

Rex does not appear to be building anything different in Buffalo. Cassell, as overmatched as he may be, might offer some hope. He may be a veteran with enough experience where his voice is heard in meetings and they can run an offense like a normal NFL team. It might not happen, it might be year two and they're like "Matt was right" but you could draw up plays in the dirt and have a better more organized offense than what the Jets had last year.

5 years ago, if I told you Vick, CJ and Percy would be on the same team and their O would stink....

Manuel has as much chance of making sense of that offense as Geno did. No rook will fix that either. Every ounce of confusion that Rex is wonderful at creating with his Ds is absolutely brutal on O. He needs to be hands off if he's going to be successful as a coach.
I picked Watt out to illustrate a point. Even as good as Watt is, he is not worth nearly as much, in terms of wins, as a franchise QB. We're talking about one of the best defensive players to ever play too. I'm not saying you don't draft a defensive player if he's the BPA on your board. I'm saying you don't trade up into the beginning of the 1st round for a defensive player if you don't have a franchise QB yet because of the high cost associated with moving up that high. It doesn't improve your team enough.

I agree with you that you stack talent when ever you can though.

 
Numbers from PFF, in their new guise as College Football Focus, (via Peter King):

Overrated? A sure-fire top-five pick, USC defensive tackle Leonard Williams, was underproductive in obvious passing situations. On third-and-long he produced only eight pressures (two hits, six hurries) on 94 pass rushes. That earned a Pass-Rush Productivity number of 6.4, well below the class average for interior defensive linemen of 7.6.
 
. I'm saying you don't trade up into the beginning of the 1st round for a defensive player if you don't have a franchise QB yet because of the high cost associated with moving up that high. It doesn't improve your team enough.
They didn't know though.

Countless rookie QBs do NOT give a clear indication that they are or aren't gems. I mentioned Eli who was arguably the worst. Somehow the Gmen let Warner walk and were fine, but you can't look at his rookie year and find anything that made ya think "this kid's got it." Ravens mockery is famous now. His brother was throwing so many TDs and he so many INTs, there was a betting line (idk real or on MBs) as to who would throw more. Terrible terrible rook QB.

Personally I liked Manuel the first so many weeks. He had some moxie and got back up like a boxer. Threw a floaty bomb which I really like and is unappreciated in today's NFL. I am totally OK with making your big WR go up and get it or the lil guy run under it. They don't all have to look like they watched Jeff Blake growing up. Anywho, he lost his confidence and was not so good as the season closed.

You have this certainty that people know whether he'd be good or not and they just didn't know.

Look at the Titans. As big an arm as any QB, worst PR thing he did was take selfies (which is probably our future as fans in today's world) and get mocked. Zero doubt he can make all the throws, but can he read a D and lead many many drives without an INT? If Sankey stinks, he might need to be a 3-400 yard QB every week. The INTs can't be as common. Hunter does not run every route with the same fire at all and Whisenhunt doesn't seem to be a fan. If they trade up from 2.1 to go get DGB is that wrong?

Now suppose Mett stinks in year two-that would be Manuel-esque.

What if the Raiders get Carr a top weapon by trade and he turns out to be as gun shy as his brother?

It doesn't change today's thoughts.

Later-year three or so, a GM should be able to land a QB that can throw to these stud WRs. I don't think there's one Buffalo fan saying "good they got Cassell to bring us to the promised land" especially when Rivers is supposedly available, Bradford and Foles were, Brees might be (rumors) and Cassell is the best you can get?

Them trading for Watkins didn't change that they need a decent QB throwing to him. I get that part of your side here, but when NFL franchises put their figurative hands up as if they are stuck there's no one available....no way that's true.

McCown signed w Cleve. Trade for Johnny football and have opposing Ds catch that lil bugger in the snow. Do something other than push a guy in a wheelchair in and say here's our new QB!

 
If I were Tampa, Id take him #1 and be done with it. Or trade #1 to Tenn and take him at #2. Tampa's D could be ridiculous with this guy, and Glennon is good enough to pilot the ship. Heck, give him a year or two, and he could be better than "good enough".
Incredibly unlikely.

I don't see this guy slipping past #2. Question is whether Tenn takes him or someone trades up to get him.

Why wouldn't Tenn take him?
If they were sold on Mariota being their QB or a team willing to move up to their pick.

Teams may be willing to move up for Williams as well.
It's a pretty terrible move to trade up to the #2 spot in the draft to pick a non QB.
Some would say it's a pretty terrible move to sign a non-QB for a 6 year, $114 Million contract.

 
the only times the Vikings have traded up was when they moved up to draft Toby Gerhart in 2010 and when they traded multiple lower picks with NE to move up and draft Patterson at pick 29.

For the most part the Vikings have held their 1st round pick or moved down.

The Gerhart trade (and most of the 2010 draft) didn't make a lot of sense. The Vikings had Brett Favre coming off one of his best seasons and the Vikings seemed to think they had no glaring needs. They did get Everson Griffen in the 4th round that year.

The Patterson deal made him the Vikings 3rd 1st round pick in 2013. This was following the Percy Harvin trade. So the Vikings were looking to replace him.

So I do not see the Vikings trading up for a WR or a RB.. But they might consider those positions at pick 11 or later if they trade down.

Another thing is Spielman has stated before that he wan't to go into each draft with 10 picks. Currently he only has seven picks. So a trade down for additional picks may be the goal here. Part of what he uses the extra picks for is to make moves into the bottom of the 1st round.
Yes, I saw your post and its good stuff. It shows the draft trends clearly and I think you are also reading what they would do based on past trends and trends continue until they eventually change.

The Vikings haven't invested much in the WR position and they are lacking a true #1 WR. They did use a #1 on Cordarrelle but they have only drafted three WRs since 2009 when they took Harvin.

2012

4th round WR Jarius Wright

4th round WR Greg Childs

2013

1st round WR Cordarrelle Paterson

They got their QB, now it might be time to make the investment to get a legit #1 WR.

I agree with you that isn't the established history of their GM and that is probably why no one has mentioned it but now might be the time for him to change since he hasn't had a lot of success drafting wideouts. It was just a thought.

 
the only times the Vikings have traded up was when they moved up to draft Toby Gerhart in 2010 and when they traded multiple lower picks with NE to move up and draft Patterson at pick 29.

For the most part the Vikings have held their 1st round pick or moved down.

The Gerhart trade (and most of the 2010 draft) didn't make a lot of sense. The Vikings had Brett Favre coming off one of his best seasons and the Vikings seemed to think they had no glaring needs. They did get Everson Griffen in the 4th round that year.

The Patterson deal made him the Vikings 3rd 1st round pick in 2013. This was following the Percy Harvin trade. So the Vikings were looking to replace him.

So I do not see the Vikings trading up for a WR or a RB.. But they might consider those positions at pick 11 or later if they trade down.

Another thing is Spielman has stated before that he wan't to go into each draft with 10 picks. Currently he only has seven picks. So a trade down for additional picks may be the goal here. Part of what he uses the extra picks for is to make moves into the bottom of the 1st round.
Yes, I saw your post and its good stuff. It shows the draft trends clearly and I think you are also reading what they would do based on past trends and trends continue until they eventually change.

The Vikings haven't invested much in the WR position and they are lacking a true #1 WR. They did use a #1 on Cordarrelle but they have only drafted three WRs since 2009 when they took Harvin.

2012

4th round WR Jarius Wright

4th round WR Greg Childs

2013

1st round WR Cordarrelle Paterson

They got their QB, now it might be time to make the investment to get a legit #1 WR.

I agree with you that isn't the established history of their GM and that is probably why no one has mentioned it but now might be the time for him to change since he hasn't had a lot of success drafting wideouts. It was just a thought.
Although Wallace/Rudolph/Johnson/Patterson is a decent enough group, the thought of Cooper in Minnesota is exciting. Out of the legitimate possibilities, that's probably his best destination. And he'd fit perfectly.

 
the only times the Vikings have traded up was when they moved up to draft Toby Gerhart in 2010 and when they traded multiple lower picks with NE to move up and draft Patterson at pick 29.

For the most part the Vikings have held their 1st round pick or moved down.

The Gerhart trade (and most of the 2010 draft) didn't make a lot of sense. The Vikings had Brett Favre coming off one of his best seasons and the Vikings seemed to think they had no glaring needs. They did get Everson Griffen in the 4th round that year.

The Patterson deal made him the Vikings 3rd 1st round pick in 2013. This was following the Percy Harvin trade. So the Vikings were looking to replace him.

So I do not see the Vikings trading up for a WR or a RB.. But they might consider those positions at pick 11 or later if they trade down.

Another thing is Spielman has stated before that he wan't to go into each draft with 10 picks. Currently he only has seven picks. So a trade down for additional picks may be the goal here. Part of what he uses the extra picks for is to make moves into the bottom of the 1st round.
Yes, I saw your post and its good stuff. It shows the draft trends clearly and I think you are also reading what they would do based on past trends and trends continue until they eventually change.

The Vikings haven't invested much in the WR position and they are lacking a true #1 WR. They did use a #1 on Cordarrelle but they have only drafted three WRs since 2009 when they took Harvin.

2012

4th round WR Jarius Wright

4th round WR Greg Childs

2013

1st round WR Cordarrelle Paterson

They got their QB, now it might be time to make the investment to get a legit #1 WR.

I agree with you that isn't the established history of their GM and that is probably why no one has mentioned it but now might be the time for him to change since he hasn't had a lot of success drafting wideouts. It was just a thought.
Although Wallace/Rudolph/Johnson/Patterson is a decent enough group, the thought of Cooper in Minnesota is exciting. Out of the legitimate possibilities, that's probably his best destination. And he'd fit perfectly.
I like WR Charles Johnson a lot based on the raw athletic skills he had coming in as a late round pick by the Packers. I was sorry to see him exposed on the Browns practice squad and he seemed to be making progress. Hopefully he is seen as a legit #1 WR, he's got an amazing combination of size/speed/athleticism and he was fairly productive last year. I didn't get a chance to see him so I can't say he is viewed as a legit #1 WR. Maybe he is and they don't feel the need for a #1 WR.

I don't think they see Cordarelle in that role and outside of Charles Johnson I don't think they have a clear cut #1 WR but CJ intrigues me. Maybe he is seen as their #1 WR.

 
the only times the Vikings have traded up was when they moved up to draft Toby Gerhart in 2010 and when they traded multiple lower picks with NE to move up and draft Patterson at pick 29.

For the most part the Vikings have held their 1st round pick or moved down.

The Gerhart trade (and most of the 2010 draft) didn't make a lot of sense. The Vikings had Brett Favre coming off one of his best seasons and the Vikings seemed to think they had no glaring needs. They did get Everson Griffen in the 4th round that year.

The Patterson deal made him the Vikings 3rd 1st round pick in 2013. This was following the Percy Harvin trade. So the Vikings were looking to replace him.

So I do not see the Vikings trading up for a WR or a RB.. But they might consider those positions at pick 11 or later if they trade down.

Another thing is Spielman has stated before that he wan't to go into each draft with 10 picks. Currently he only has seven picks. So a trade down for additional picks may be the goal here. Part of what he uses the extra picks for is to make moves into the bottom of the 1st round.
Yes, I saw your post and its good stuff. It shows the draft trends clearly and I think you are also reading what they would do based on past trends and trends continue until they eventually change.

The Vikings haven't invested much in the WR position and they are lacking a true #1 WR. They did use a #1 on Cordarrelle but they have only drafted three WRs since 2009 when they took Harvin.

2012

4th round WR Jarius Wright

4th round WR Greg Childs

2013

1st round WR Cordarrelle Paterson

They got their QB, now it might be time to make the investment to get a legit #1 WR.

I agree with you that isn't the established history of their GM and that is probably why no one has mentioned it but now might be the time for him to change since he hasn't had a lot of success drafting wideouts. It was just a thought.
Although Wallace/Rudolph/Johnson/Patterson is a decent enough group, the thought of Cooper in Minnesota is exciting. Out of the legitimate possibilities, that's probably his best destination. And he'd fit perfectly.
I like WR Charles Johnson a lot based on the raw athletic skills he had coming in as a late round pick by the Packers. I was sorry to see him exposed on the Browns practice squad and he seemed to be making progress. Hopefully he is seen as a legit #1 WR, he's got an amazing combination of size/speed/athleticism and he was fairly productive last year. I didn't get a chance to see him so I can't say he is viewed as a legit #1 WR. Maybe he is and they don't feel the need for a #1 WR.

I don't think they see Cordarelle in that role and outside of Charles Johnson I don't think they have a clear cut #1 WR but CJ intrigues me. Maybe he is seen as their #1 WR.
Charles Johnson did overtake Patterson in the X WR role about mid season 2014. He is a much better fit as a down field threat than Patterson was (which may not be saying that much).

The Vikings were looking for a player to replace Jerome Simpson's role as a deep threat and a good jump ball receiver. It also made a certain degree of sense to have Patterson compete against Simpson instead of Greg Jennings. Much more likely for him to earn playing time against SImpson than Jennings.

Patterson did not look natural running deep routes at all. He often would get hung up by the jam and his route mechanics would tell the defense what route he was going to run early in the play, allowing them to always be in good position against him.

I think Mike Wallace takes over the X WR role in the offense and this hurts Charles Johnsons opportunity to play. I think they will be playing very similar roles in the offense.

Trading away Greg Jennings opens up opportunity for WR to play the Z or flanker position as well as slot WR. I think this helps Jarius Wright and Patterson become more involved in the offense. I have thought Patterson was better suited for the Z WR since the Vikings drafted him and I still think that is the best fit for him.

So as good as Johnson did last season, I don't really see him in a featured role unless he can outplay Wallace. That seems unlikely to me.

As far as the Vikings drafing a WR at pick 11?

I am not against that completely because it would be great to pair Teddy with a true lead WR such as Cooper or Parker, which would become a combination to build chemistry with over the course of their careers. Teddy already has experience with both of these WR having played with them in HS and College. At the same time the 2015 draft is very deep at the WR position again. So there is a lot of value to be found at WR in the second or even 3rd round. This would allow the Vikings to focus on another position with their top pick and still get a quality WR later if they want to.

I would be against the Vikings moving up from pick 11 for any player because of the cost of such a trade. Spielman still wants to go into the draft with 10 picks. He currently has seven picks. So to trade up will cost more than just pick 11. It would cause the Vikings to only have 5 or less picks in the 2015 draft. That seems like bad business and counter productive to the GMs stated goal of having 10 picks going into the draft. That said with 10 picks Spielman has not been against burning a few of those extra picks to move up into the bottom of the 1st round of the draft. So a move like this, possibly for a WR is something to look for. I just don't think it would make much sense for the Vikings to try to trade up higher than pick 11.

I may like Mike Wallace more than peoples opinions of him may be. Even Vikings fans. The GM and HC think highly of Wallace as well. He was the player Spielman targeted in free agency before having to settle for Greg Jennings.

 
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I like WR Charles Johnson a lot based on the raw athletic skills he had coming in as a late round pick by the Packers. I was sorry to see him exposed on the Browns practice squad and he seemed to be making progress. Hopefully he is seen as a legit #1 WR, he's got an amazing combination of size/speed/athleticism and he was fairly productive last year. I didn't get a chance to see him so I can't say he is viewed as a legit #1 WR. Maybe he is and they don't feel the need for a #1 WR.
Although Wallace/Rudolph/Johnson/Patterson is a decent enough group, the thought of Cooper in Minnesota is exciting. Out of the legitimate possibilities, that's probably his best destination. And he'd fit perfectly.

I don't think they see Cordarelle in that role and outside of Charles Johnson I don't think they have a clear cut #1 WR but CJ intrigues me. Maybe he is seen as their #1 WR.
Charles Johnson did overtake Patterson in the X WR role about mid season 2014. He is a much better fit as a down field threat than Patterson was (which may not be saying that much).

The Vikings were looking for a player to replace Jerome Simpson's role as a deep threat and a good jump ball receiver. It also made a certain degree of sense to have Patterson compete against Simpson instead of Greg Jennings. Much more likely for him to earn playing time against SImpson than Jennings.

Patterson did not look natural running deep routes at all. He often would get hung up by the jam and his route mechanics would tell the defense what route he was going to run early in the play, allowing them to always be in good position against him.

I think Mike Wallace takes over the X WR role in the offense and this hurts Charles Johnsons opportunity to play. I think they will be playing very similar roles in the offense.

Trading away Greg Jennings opens up opportunity for WR to play the Z or flanker position as well as slot WR. I think this helps Jarius Wright and Patterson become more involved in the offense. I have thought Patterson was better suited for the Z WR since the Vikings drafted him and I still think that is the best fit for him.

So as good as Johnson did last season, I don't really see him in a featured role unless he can outplay Wallace. That seems unlikely to me.

As far as the Vikings drafing a WR at pick 11?

I am not against that completely because it would be great to pair Teddy with a true lead WR such as Cooper or Parker, which would become a combination to build chemistry with over the course of their careers. Teddy already has experience with both of these WR having played with them in HS and College. At the same time the 2015 draft is very deep at the WR position again. So there is a lot of value to be found at WR in the second or even 3rd round. This would allow the Vikings to focus on another position with their top pick and still get a quality WR later if they want to.

I would be against the Vikings moving up from pick 11 for any player because of the cost of such a trade. Spielman still wants to go into the draft with 10 picks. He currently has seven picks. So to trade up will cost more than just pick 11. It would cause the Vikings to only have 5 or less picks in the 2015 draft. That seems like bad business and counter productive to the GMs stated goal of having 10 picks going into the draft. That said with 10 picks Spielman has not been against burning a few of those extra picks to move up into the bottom of the 1st round of the draft. So a move like this, possibly for a WR is something to look for. I just don't think it would make much sense for the Vikings to try to trade up higher than pick 11.

I may like Mike Wallace more than peoples opinions of him may be. Even Vikings fans. The GM and HC think highly of Wallace as well. He was the player Spielman targeted in free agency before having to settle for Greg Jennings.
:goodposting:

In the past WR Mike Wallace displayed behavior on field where he sulked if he wasn't used, complained aggressively for the ball to his QB, and seemed to wilt at times.

Maybe its his past behavior because it seems he hasn't gotten credit for how well he played. He played better than people realize with Miami so maybe he is destined to be the Vikings #1 WR. You would have to wonder why he's been allowed to leave teams even after playing well.

A guy with a history of being a good receiver but not being kept hints their could be issues.

 
Rotoworld:

CBS Sports NFL Insider Jason La Canfora writes that "many people believe [uSC DL Leonard Williams] is the best player in the draft for him to last much beyond" No. 3.
"Jacksonville, with the third pick, could be open for trade talks and you could make the case they have some talent on the defensive line already," he wrote. "But this is too high for any of these offensive linemen and Williams could be a transcendent player above and beyond any of the pass rushers available, who will have big-time allure to the Jags as well." The analyst mentions the best-case scenario for the Jags: With Blake Bortles on the roster, Jacksonville is hoping Jameis Winston and Marcus Mariota go Nos. 1-2, leaving them a choice of the top non-QB available (or, of course, a trade). It's worth mentioning that Florida edge rusher Dante Fowler is convinced he's going No. 3.

Source: CBS Sports
Apr 8 - 4:53 PM
 
Rotoworld:

ESPN's Louis Riddick suggested USC DT Leonard Williams may struggle to make an impact on third downs in the NFL.

Although Williams is widely regarded as a top-five lock, a slew of astute analysts have expressed skepticism regarding his pass-rush ability, from Riddick to NFL Films' Greg Cosell, RSP's Eric Stoner, and PFF's Sam Monson. "This is not to say that Leonard Williams cannot be a good player, because he should be," Riddick said. "I just do not want to pay that kind of price for a good two-down player that I don't know if he will be a good third-down producer. I have not seen it, and I don't trust it at this point." The comparisons for Williams have ranged widely, with optimists likening him to Richard Seymour and skeptics to Tyson Jackson.

Source: ESPN.com
Apr 10 - 2:43 PM
 
Rotoworld:

Leonard Williams - DL - Trojans

NFL Media analyst Charles Davis thinks USC DL Leonard Williams could slide out of the top six.

Davis ranks Williams as the No. 1 player in the draft, but sees potential trouble if Jameis Winston and Marcus Mariota go Nos. 1-2, as expected. "The Jaguars (No. 3), Redskins (No. 5) and Jets (No. 6) all are consistently linked to the top edge rushers available, and most expect the Raiders (No. 4) to take a wide receiver," Davis wrote. "Could Williams, an interior defensive lineman, fall all the way to the Bears at No. 7, who would most likely jump at the chance to pick him? I don't think Williams will fall that far, but it's not implausible."

Source: NFL.com

Apr 13 - 8:54 PM
 
Rotoworld:

Leonard Williams - DL - Trojans

NFL Media analyst Charles Davis thinks USC DL Leonard Williams could slide out of the top six.

Davis ranks Williams as the No. 1 player in the draft, but sees potential trouble if Jameis Winston and Marcus Mariota go Nos. 1-2, as expected. "The Jaguars (No. 3), Redskins (No. 5) and Jets (No. 6) all are consistently linked to the top edge rushers available, and most expect the Raiders (No. 4) to take a wide receiver," Davis wrote. "Could Williams, an interior defensive lineman, fall all the way to the Bears at No. 7, who would most likely jump at the chance to pick him? I don't think Williams will fall that far, but it's not implausible."

Source: NFL.com

Apr 13 - 8:54 PM
He looks like a perfect 3-4 DE to me and the Redskins (#5), Jets (#6), and Bears (#7) play 3-4. The Jags at #3 run a hybrid scheme that would fit well. I don't see him slipping all the way to #7.

 
Rotoworld:

USC DL Leonard Williams "graded out extremely well in our system," said Pro Football Focus senior analyst Steve Palazzolo.
It's not all good news, however, for Mel Kiper's No. 1 graded player. "But a lot of people here think he will not be the impact pass-rusher who typically warrants a top-five pick, that he will be a run-stop player in a passing league," Palazzolo said. ESPN's player comparison tool sees Williams as similar to Cameron Heyward, Justin Harrell and Gerald McCoy on the basis of physical characteristics and athletic ability.

Source: ESPN Insider
Apr 20 - 6:51 PM
 
Rotoworld:

USC DL Leonard Williams "graded out extremely well in our system," said Pro Football Focus senior analyst Steve Palazzolo.

It's not all good news, however, for Mel Kiper's No. 1 graded player. "But a lot of people here think he will not be the impact pass-rusher who typically warrants a top-five pick, that he will be a run-stop player in a passing league," Palazzolo said. ESPN's player comparison tool sees Williams as similar to Cameron Heyward, Justin Harrell and Gerald McCoy on the basis of physical characteristics and athletic ability.

Source: ESPN Insider

Apr 20 - 6:51 PM
Here's a good breakdown of his pass rush ability.

 
Rotoworld:

USC DL Leonard Williams is visiting the Redskins on Wednesday.
You might be surprised by this, but we think it is in the realm of possibility that Williams is available at pick No. 5. Think about it: the two quarterbacks go first, then an edge rusher, then a wide receiver. The redskins recently signed Stephen Paea, but Jason Hatcher turns 33 soon and could be a post June 1st cut after next season in this scenario.

Source: Leonard Williams on Twitter
Apr 22 - 11:36 AM
 
Rotoworld:

USC DL Leonard Williams is visiting the Redskins on Wednesday.
You might be surprised by this, but we think it is in the realm of possibility that Williams is available at pick No. 5. Think about it: the two quarterbacks go first, then an edge rusher, then a wide receiver. The redskins recently signed Stephen Paea, but Jason Hatcher turns 33 soon and could be a post June 1st cut after next season in this scenario.

Source: Leonard Williams on Twitter
Apr 22 - 11:36 AM
If the Jags prefer Fowler then there's a high probability he's there at #5. The Raiders may be tempted to take Williams but they really need a WR to help their young QB develop.

 
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Rotoworld:

USC DL Leonard Williams is visiting the Redskins on Wednesday.
You might be surprised by this, but we think it is in the realm of possibility that Williams is available at pick No. 5. Think about it: the two quarterbacks go first, then an edge rusher, then a wide receiver. The redskins recently signed Stephen Paea, but Jason Hatcher turns 33 soon and could be a post June 1st cut after next season in this scenario.

Source: Leonard Williams on Twitter
Apr 22 - 11:36 AM
If the Jags prefer Fowler then there's a high probability he's there at #5. The Raiders may be tempted to take Williams but they really need a WR to help their young QB develop.
I really wish your hunch was right, but if LW slips to #4, there's no way Reggie passes on him. He may trade the rights to him, but he won't pass.

 
Rotoworld:

In a poll of 19 NFL executives done by the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel, 10 named USC DT Leonard Williams as the No. 1 player in the 2015 draft.

Alabama WR Amari Cooper finished a distant second with four votes. Oregon QB Marcus Mariota (2 1/2) was third, Florida DE/OLB Dante Fowler and Wisconsin RB Melvin Gordon each received one vote, and Georgia RB Todd Gurley got the final half-vote. (Notice Jameis Winston received no first-place votes.) Although there has been some recent scuttlebutt of Williams falling in the draft, it's hard to imagine him getting past the Raiders at No. 4 or Redskins at No. 5. And Williams could still easily go second overall to the Titans.

Source: Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel
Apr 22 - 11:58 PM
 
Rotoworld:

Leonard Williams - DL - Trojans

USC DL Leonard Williams "is barely scratching the surface" and is already a "high-impact talent," according to NFL Media draft analyst Lance Zierlein.

The USC prospect still has room to grow--and were just talking frame wise. The 6-foot-5, 300-pounder still has more mass to add to his frame, as Williams is still just twenty years old. The USC talent has a rare combination of strength and quickness, which should cause sleepless nights for opposing lineman. Williams has drawn comparisons to seven-time Pro Bowl selection, Richard Seymour.

Source: NFL.com

Apr 28 - 2:35 PM
 
Rotoworld:

Leonard Williams - DL - Trojans

CBS Sports' Dane Brugler notes that the Raiders could end up with "arguably the best player in the draft two years in a row without a top-3 pick," If they land USC DL Leonard Williams.

The USC prospect would also get his wish if he landed with the Raiders, as Williams has publicly noted that he would love to wear the Silver and Black. Williams grew up a Raiders fan, growing up in Bakersfield California. With a possibility that the Titans could pass on Williams, and Jaguars possibly selecting Dante Fowler or Amari Cooper, the stars could align, if Williams dropped to Oakland at the four spot.

Source: Dane Brugler on Twitter

Apr 29 - 3:37 PM
 

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