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Tom Brady ONCE AGAIN suspended 4 games (1 Viewer)

TheIronSheik said:
If you read their rebuttal, it actually brings up very good points. If you read that report and come away thinking "He totally did it", I'd say that proves you hate Brady/the Pats.
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Does the rebuttal explain why Brady didn't cooperate, and is he planning to turn over texts and emails now that he's been busted? If not, it's all just slimebag lawyers spinning their usual bs. Brady is dead to rights guilty.
 
I'm seriously starting to wonder if Kraft is going senile. The only way that could look more pathetic would be if it was in a Comic Sans.

 
The Patriots might as well have claimed those texts were the result of McNally's phone getting hacked. About as credible as the crap they're tossing out there.

 
Tom Servo said:
By the way, I :lmao: at those Pats fans playing the "you're jealous" card. Here's a short list of team who probably aren't jealous of the Patriots:

Steelers

49ers

Cowboys

Packers

Giants

I'm sure there might be others...
Click to expand...
Yep. Pats have almost 1/3 of the rings the Packers do.

Almost.

 
Al O said:
Dan Lambskin said:
Sabertooth said:
Tom Servo said:
By the way, I :lmao: at those Pats fans playing the "you're jealous" card. Here's a short list of team who probably aren't jealous of the Patriots:

Steelers

49ers

Cowboys

Packers

Giants

I'm sure there might be others...
Click to expand...
Yep. Pats have almost 1/3 of the rings the Packers do. Almost.
Click to expand...
Huh?
Click to expand...
The Packers have the most NFL Championships of any team. I don't think they gave rings back then, though.
Click to expand...
Ahh...nobody cares about the pre-Super Bowl era

 
Dan Lambskin said:
Al O said:
Dan Lambskin said:
Sabertooth said:
Tom Servo said:
By the way, I :lmao: at those Pats fans playing the "you're jealous" card. Here's a short list of team who probably aren't jealous of the Patriots:

Steelers

49ers

Cowboys

Packers

Giants

I'm sure there might be others...
Click to expand...
Yep. Pats have almost 1/3 of the rings the Packers do. Almost.
Click to expand...
Huh?
Click to expand...
The Packers have the most NFL Championships of any team. I don't think they gave rings back then, though.
Click to expand...
Ahh...nobody cares about the pre-Super Bowl era
Click to expand...
Browns fans beg to differ.

 
Would things be significantly different if Chris Mortensen’s original report (tweet) was changed from this:

“NFL has found that 11 of the Patriots footballs used in Sunday’s AFC title game were under-inflated by 2 lbs each, per league sources.”

to this (of course he couldn’t fit this all in a tweet):

League sources have stated that the NFL believes the NE Patriots tampered with game balls resulting in underinflated balls being used during the AFC title game. Unfortunately, NFL officials used 2 gages that give different results and neither one is calibrated. Even if the gages were calibrated, it’s impossible to know for certain the difference in PSI from pre-game to halftime for any particular ball or which gage was used on which ball(s) because NFL officials failed to record the results of the testing prior to the start of the game.

During the off-season the NFL will revise its procedures to better ensure that all game balls that are introduced into the game conform to specifications. The NFL will also remind all teams, and specifically warn the Patriots, that any attempt to introduce an illegal ball (e.g. resulting from deflating or warming) will result in a minimum fine of $25,000 per ball infraction.

Sorry, as a quality engineer (quality nerd), the whole idea of trying to prove anything with uncalibrated gages bugs the crap out of me.

 
brun said:
Would things be significantly different if Chris Mortensens original report (tweet) was changed from this:

NFL has found that 11 of the Patriots footballs used in Sundays AFC title game were under-inflated by 2 lbs each, per league sources.

to this (of course he couldnt fit this all in a tweet):

League sources have stated that the NFL believes the NE Patriots tampered with game balls resulting in underinflated balls being used during the AFC title game. Unfortunately, NFL officials used 2 gages that give different results and neither one is calibrated. Even if the gages were calibrated, its impossible to know for certain the difference in PSI from pre-game to halftime for any particular ball or which gage was used on which ball(s) because NFL officials failed to record the results of the testing prior to the start of the game.

During the off-season the NFL will revise its procedures to better ensure that all game balls that are introduced into the game conform to specifications. The NFL will also remind all teams, and specifically warn the Patriots, that any attempt to introduce an illegal ball (e.g. resulting from deflating or warming) will result in a minimum fine of $25,000 per ball infraction.

Sorry, as a quality engineer (quality nerd), the whole idea of trying to prove anything with uncalibrated gages bugs the crap out of me.
Click to expand...
The uncalibrated gages and the random nature of the ball inspection method are where the NFL will lose the appeal.
 
brun said:
Would things be significantly different if Chris Mortensen’s original report (tweet) was changed from this:

“NFL has found that 11 of the Patriots footballs used in Sunday’s AFC title game were under-inflated by 2 lbs each, per league sources.”

to this (of course he couldn’t fit this all in a tweet):

League sources have stated that the NFL believes the NE Patriots tampered with game balls resulting in underinflated balls being used during the AFC title game. Unfortunately, NFL officials used 2 gages that give different results and neither one is calibrated. Even if the gages were calibrated, it’s impossible to know for certain the difference in PSI from pre-game to halftime for any particular ball or which gage was used on which ball(s) because NFL officials failed to record the results of the testing prior to the start of the game.

During the off-season the NFL will revise its procedures to better ensure that all game balls that are introduced into the game conform to specifications. The NFL will also remind all teams, and specifically warn the Patriots, that any attempt to introduce an illegal ball (e.g. resulting from deflating or warming) will result in a minimum fine of $25,000 per ball infraction.

Sorry, as a quality engineer (quality nerd), the whole idea of trying to prove anything with uncalibrated gages bugs the crap out of me.
Click to expand...
All of that might be true and reasonable. However, once the ref checks and approves the balls, removing them and deflating them further is intentional cheating. There's no other way to interpret that act.

 
Rich Conway said:
brun said:
Would things be significantly different if Chris Mortensens original report (tweet) was changed from this:

NFL has found that 11 of the Patriots footballs used in Sundays AFC title game were under-inflated by 2 lbs each, per league sources.

to this (of course he couldnt fit this all in a tweet):

League sources have stated that the NFL believes the NE Patriots tampered with game balls resulting in underinflated balls being used during the AFC title game. Unfortunately, NFL officials used 2 gages that give different results and neither one is calibrated. Even if the gages were calibrated, its impossible to know for certain the difference in PSI from pre-game to halftime for any particular ball or which gage was used on which ball(s) because NFL officials failed to record the results of the testing prior to the start of the game.

During the off-season the NFL will revise its procedures to better ensure that all game balls that are introduced into the game conform to specifications. The NFL will also remind all teams, and specifically warn the Patriots, that any attempt to introduce an illegal ball (e.g. resulting from deflating or warming) will result in a minimum fine of $25,000 per ball infraction.

Sorry, as a quality engineer (quality nerd), the whole idea of trying to prove anything with uncalibrated gages bugs the crap out of me.
Click to expand...
All of that might be true and reasonable. However, once the ref checks and approves the balls, removing them and deflating them further is intentional cheating. There's no other way to interpret that act.
Click to expand...
How do you prove that was done without proving that the balls reduced in PSI between the first check and subsequent check? And if that reduction in PSI is necessary to prove the allegation of post-check tampering, then the uncalibrated instrument to check that could be damning.It's like people who get caught speeding or drunk driving by an officer using an uncalibrated speed gun or breathalyzer. The person very well may have been speeding or driving drunk, but the use of the uncalibrated device to check that is sometimes enough to get an acquittal.

 
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TheIronSheik said:
If you read their rebuttal, it actually brings up very good points. If you read that report and come away thinking "He totally did it", I'd say that proves you hate Brady/the Pats.
Click to expand...
Thank you.

If you can't at least admit that there is a valid case to be made that exonerates them, you are just as bad if not worse that the Pats homers who can't see there is a case to be made that shows they are guilty. As well as shades of guilt in between.

It's always good to separate the morons from the sensible ones, no surprise GM is yet again the voice of reason.

 
Gary Coal Man said:
Rich Conway said:
brun said:
Would things be significantly different if Chris Mortensens original report (tweet) was changed from this:

NFL has found that 11 of the Patriots footballs used in Sundays AFC title game were under-inflated by 2 lbs each, per league sources.

to this (of course he couldnt fit this all in a tweet):

League sources have stated that the NFL believes the NE Patriots tampered with game balls resulting in underinflated balls being used during the AFC title game. Unfortunately, NFL officials used 2 gages that give different results and neither one is calibrated. Even if the gages were calibrated, its impossible to know for certain the difference in PSI from pre-game to halftime for any particular ball or which gage was used on which ball(s) because NFL officials failed to record the results of the testing prior to the start of the game.

During the off-season the NFL will revise its procedures to better ensure that all game balls that are introduced into the game conform to specifications. The NFL will also remind all teams, and specifically warn the Patriots, that any attempt to introduce an illegal ball (e.g. resulting from deflating or warming) will result in a minimum fine of $25,000 per ball infraction.

Sorry, as a quality engineer (quality nerd), the whole idea of trying to prove anything with uncalibrated gages bugs the crap out of me.
Click to expand...
All of that might be true and reasonable. However, once the ref checks and approves the balls, removing them and deflating them further is intentional cheating. There's no other way to interpret that act.
Click to expand...
How do you prove that was done without proving that the balls reduced in PSI between the first check and subsequent check? And if that reduction in PSI is necessary to prove the allegation of post-check tampering, then the uncalibrated instrument to check that could be damning.It's like people who get caught speeding or drunk driving by an officer using an uncalibrated speed gun or breathalyzer. The person very well may have been speeding or driving drunk, but the use of the uncalibrated device to check that is sometimes enough to get an acquittal.
Click to expand...
All of the Pats balls were within spec before the game and under spec at halftime. All the Colts balls were within spec before the game and the ones measured were within spec at halftime.

 
Rich Conway said:
brun said:
Would things be significantly different if Chris Mortensen’s original report (tweet) was changed from this:

“NFL has found that 11 of the Patriots footballs used in Sunday’s AFC title game were under-inflated by 2 lbs each, per league sources.”

to this (of course he couldn’t fit this all in a tweet):

League sources have stated that the NFL believes the NE Patriots tampered with game balls resulting in underinflated balls being used during the AFC title game. Unfortunately, NFL officials used 2 gages that give different results and neither one is calibrated. Even if the gages were calibrated, it’s impossible to know for certain the difference in PSI from pre-game to halftime for any particular ball or which gage was used on which ball(s) because NFL officials failed to record the results of the testing prior to the start of the game.

During the off-season the NFL will revise its procedures to better ensure that all game balls that are introduced into the game conform to specifications. The NFL will also remind all teams, and specifically warn the Patriots, that any attempt to introduce an illegal ball (e.g. resulting from deflating or warming) will result in a minimum fine of $25,000 per ball infraction.

Sorry, as a quality engineer (quality nerd), the whole idea of trying to prove anything with uncalibrated gages bugs the crap out of me.
Click to expand...
All of that might be true and reasonable. However, once the ref checks and approves the balls, removing them and deflating them further is intentional cheating. There's no other way to interpret that act.
Click to expand...
I like seeing the Patriots squirm like this, but this is not necessarily true - it is only "cheating" if you reduce the pressure below the limit set forth in the rules.

 
Rich Conway said:
brun said:
Would things be significantly different if Chris Mortensen’s original report (tweet) was changed from this:

“NFL has found that 11 of the Patriots footballs used in Sunday’s AFC title game were under-inflated by 2 lbs each, per league sources.”

to this (of course he couldn’t fit this all in a tweet):

League sources have stated that the NFL believes the NE Patriots tampered with game balls resulting in underinflated balls being used during the AFC title game. Unfortunately, NFL officials used 2 gages that give different results and neither one is calibrated. Even if the gages were calibrated, it’s impossible to know for certain the difference in PSI from pre-game to halftime for any particular ball or which gage was used on which ball(s) because NFL officials failed to record the results of the testing prior to the start of the game.

During the off-season the NFL will revise its procedures to better ensure that all game balls that are introduced into the game conform to specifications. The NFL will also remind all teams, and specifically warn the Patriots, that any attempt to introduce an illegal ball (e.g. resulting from deflating or warming) will result in a minimum fine of $25,000 per ball infraction.

Sorry, as a quality engineer (quality nerd), the whole idea of trying to prove anything with uncalibrated gages bugs the crap out of me.
Click to expand...
All of that might be true and reasonable. However, once the ref checks and approves the balls, removing them and deflating them further is intentional cheating. There's no other way to interpret that act.
Click to expand...
true, if you regain the blood flow to your brain, kindly explain how that is proven without calibrated gauges or recorded measurements?

 
All you need to know about this whole mess is that the whole thing hinges on which gauge Anderson used to measure the balls pre-game. If it is true that he used the Wilson gauge, as Anderson claimed in the Wells report (and Wells mysteriously assumes Anderson to be incorrect on this point), the following is true:

* The Pats football deflation can be explained away by the normal depressurization of a football under the temperature conditions of the AFC Championship game, as proven by the Ideal Gas Law.

* Three of the four Colts footballs were below the 12.5 psi limit at halftime.

And I'll add one more point from this week:

* Lorin Reisner (who worked with Wells on the investigation), claims that it doesn't matter which gauge Anderson used in his pre-game measurements.

Throw out all of the rest of the nonsense and focus on those three things. There is simply no way you can come close to proving anything here.

 
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3C said:
Gary Coal Man said:
Rich Conway said:
brun said:
Would things be significantly different if Chris Mortensens original report (tweet) was changed from this:

NFL has found that 11 of the Patriots footballs used in Sundays AFC title game were under-inflated by 2 lbs each, per league sources.

to this (of course he couldnt fit this all in a tweet):

League sources have stated that the NFL believes the NE Patriots tampered with game balls resulting in underinflated balls being used during the AFC title game. Unfortunately, NFL officials used 2 gages that give different results and neither one is calibrated. Even if the gages were calibrated, its impossible to know for certain the difference in PSI from pre-game to halftime for any particular ball or which gage was used on which ball(s) because NFL officials failed to record the results of the testing prior to the start of the game.

During the off-season the NFL will revise its procedures to better ensure that all game balls that are introduced into the game conform to specifications. The NFL will also remind all teams, and specifically warn the Patriots, that any attempt to introduce an illegal ball (e.g. resulting from deflating or warming) will result in a minimum fine of $25,000 per ball infraction.

Sorry, as a quality engineer (quality nerd), the whole idea of trying to prove anything with uncalibrated gages bugs the crap out of me.
Click to expand...
All of that might be true and reasonable. However, once the ref checks and approves the balls, removing them and deflating them further is intentional cheating. There's no other way to interpret that act.
Click to expand...
How do you prove that was done without proving that the balls reduced in PSI between the first check and subsequent check? And if that reduction in PSI is necessary to prove the allegation of post-check tampering, then the uncalibrated instrument to check that could be damning.It's like people who get caught speeding or drunk driving by an officer using an uncalibrated speed gun or breathalyzer. The person very well may have been speeding or driving drunk, but the use of the uncalibrated device to check that is sometimes enough to get an acquittal.
Click to expand...
All of the Pats balls were within spec before the game and under spec at halftime. All the Colts balls were within spec before the game and the ones measured were within spec at halftime.
Click to expand...
That doesn't defeat the point of the uncalibrated devices to check the balls.And then you raise a second point -- randomness. They checked all the Patriots balls at the half, but only some of the Colts balls at the half. Inconsistently applied checks like that are more ripe for an argument that the checks are less accurate and unequally applied. That also could be damning for the league.

 
The Wells report acknowledges the flaws in the science. They basically said there's a 50/50 change he used the Wilson logo, but due to the other factors (going into the locked bathroom, "incriminating" texts and Brady's refusal to turn over his phone) resulted in them choosing to go with he probably used the non-logo one.

This is my biggest issue with the entire report. I'd argue, that since Anderson himself stated he thought he used the Wilson logo, it would be more probably than not that the 2nd set of data (the one that exonerates the Patriots) is the valid one.

 
3C said:
Gary Coal Man said:
Rich Conway said:
brun said:
Would things be significantly different if Chris Mortensens original report (tweet) was changed from this:

NFL has found that 11 of the Patriots footballs used in Sundays AFC title game were under-inflated by 2 lbs each, per league sources.

to this (of course he couldnt fit this all in a tweet):

League sources have stated that the NFL believes the NE Patriots tampered with game balls resulting in underinflated balls being used during the AFC title game. Unfortunately, NFL officials used 2 gages that give different results and neither one is calibrated. Even if the gages were calibrated, its impossible to know for certain the difference in PSI from pre-game to halftime for any particular ball or which gage was used on which ball(s) because NFL officials failed to record the results of the testing prior to the start of the game.

During the off-season the NFL will revise its procedures to better ensure that all game balls that are introduced into the game conform to specifications. The NFL will also remind all teams, and specifically warn the Patriots, that any attempt to introduce an illegal ball (e.g. resulting from deflating or warming) will result in a minimum fine of $25,000 per ball infraction.

Sorry, as a quality engineer (quality nerd), the whole idea of trying to prove anything with uncalibrated gages bugs the crap out of me.
Click to expand...
All of that might be true and reasonable. However, once the ref checks and approves the balls, removing them and deflating them further is intentional cheating. There's no other way to interpret that act.
Click to expand...
How do you prove that was done without proving that the balls reduced in PSI between the first check and subsequent check? And if that reduction in PSI is necessary to prove the allegation of post-check tampering, then the uncalibrated instrument to check that could be damning.It's like people who get caught speeding or drunk driving by an officer using an uncalibrated speed gun or breathalyzer. The person very well may have been speeding or driving drunk, but the use of the uncalibrated device to check that is sometimes enough to get an acquittal.
Click to expand...
All of the Pats balls were within spec before the game and under spec at halftime. All the Colts balls were within spec before the game and the ones measured were within spec at halftime.
Click to expand...
Not actually true. First, only 4 colts balls were checked. 3 of 4 Colts balls were under 12.5 on one gauge, while all 4 were within spec ( but lower than Anderson recalled them being at initial inspection ) on the other.

 
If this was my team, I'd probably be falling all over myself much like most of you to defend them. However, it still amazes me, with the past the Pats have, how convinced many of you are that TB and Associates are innocent. This absolutely reeks of the Patriots rule-book-manipulating business model. Once thought of as the model franchise in sports, the Pats will never get the benefit of the doubt again - and they shouldn't.

 
Sinn Fein said:
Rich Conway said:
brun said:
Would things be significantly different if Chris Mortensen’s original report (tweet) was changed from this:

“NFL has found that 11 of the Patriots footballs used in Sunday’s AFC title game were under-inflated by 2 lbs each, per league sources.”

to this (of course he couldn’t fit this all in a tweet):

League sources have stated that the NFL believes the NE Patriots tampered with game balls resulting in underinflated balls being used during the AFC title game. Unfortunately, NFL officials used 2 gages that give different results and neither one is calibrated. Even if the gages were calibrated, it’s impossible to know for certain the difference in PSI from pre-game to halftime for any particular ball or which gage was used on which ball(s) because NFL officials failed to record the results of the testing prior to the start of the game.

During the off-season the NFL will revise its procedures to better ensure that all game balls that are introduced into the game conform to specifications. The NFL will also remind all teams, and specifically warn the Patriots, that any attempt to introduce an illegal ball (e.g. resulting from deflating or warming) will result in a minimum fine of $25,000 per ball infraction.

Sorry, as a quality engineer (quality nerd), the whole idea of trying to prove anything with uncalibrated gages bugs the crap out of me.
Click to expand...
All of that might be true and reasonable. However, once the ref checks and approves the balls, removing them and deflating them further is intentional cheating. There's no other way to interpret that act.
Click to expand...
I like seeing the Patriots squirm like this, but this is not necessarily true - it is only "cheating" if you reduce the pressure below the limit set forth in the rules.
Click to expand...
Fine. It proves the Pats attempted to intentionally cheat, and may or may not have succeeded, depending on how incompetent the equipment guys were. Better?

Look, the pressure probably provided little advantage over the years, if any, but it's pretty freaking obvious that Brady and the equipment guys were intentionally trying to get around the rules. "More probable than not", which is the standard the NFL uses in these cases, is a slam dunk. Even "beyond reasonable doubt" would be a pretty easy hurdle to clear in this case.

 
Rich Conway said:
Sinn Fein said:
Rich Conway said:
brun said:
Would things be significantly different if Chris Mortensen’s original report (tweet) was changed from this:

“NFL has found that 11 of the Patriots footballs used in Sunday’s AFC title game were under-inflated by 2 lbs each, per league sources.”

to this (of course he couldn’t fit this all in a tweet):

League sources have stated that the NFL believes the NE Patriots tampered with game balls resulting in underinflated balls being used during the AFC title game. Unfortunately, NFL officials used 2 gages that give different results and neither one is calibrated. Even if the gages were calibrated, it’s impossible to know for certain the difference in PSI from pre-game to halftime for any particular ball or which gage was used on which ball(s) because NFL officials failed to record the results of the testing prior to the start of the game.

During the off-season the NFL will revise its procedures to better ensure that all game balls that are introduced into the game conform to specifications. The NFL will also remind all teams, and specifically warn the Patriots, that any attempt to introduce an illegal ball (e.g. resulting from deflating or warming) will result in a minimum fine of $25,000 per ball infraction.

Sorry, as a quality engineer (quality nerd), the whole idea of trying to prove anything with uncalibrated gages bugs the crap out of me.
Click to expand...
All of that might be true and reasonable. However, once the ref checks and approves the balls, removing them and deflating them further is intentional cheating. There's no other way to interpret that act.
Click to expand...
I like seeing the Patriots squirm like this, but this is not necessarily true - it is only "cheating" if you reduce the pressure below the limit set forth in the rules.
Click to expand...
Fine. It proves the Pats attempted to intentionally cheat, and may or may not have succeeded, depending on how incompetent the equipment guys were. Better?

Look, the pressure probably provided little advantage over the years, if any, but it's pretty freaking obvious that Brady and the equipment guys were intentionally trying to get around the rules. "More probable than not", which is the standard the NFL uses in these cases, is a slam dunk. Even "beyond reasonable doubt" would be a pretty easy hurdle to clear in this case.
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You're still not getting it.

 
Oh I get it just fine. Anyone who honestly thinks Brady and co. weren't trying to cheat is being willfully ignorant.

Lots of players have cheated over the years, in lots of sports. Clemens cheated. Bonds cheated. And now Brady cheated. Doesn't make them less than great players.

 
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The Pats blew it big time here. Even if it was true that McNally was called the Deflator because of weight loss, you still don't put it in the report. Nobody believes it and that's all everyone will glom on to. Now the entire report gets dismissed out of hand. It's a shame really because the report otherwise highlights some glaring holes and huge credibility issues with the investigation. Amateur hour all the way around on this, from the NFL to Wells to the Pats response.

 
Rich Conway said:
Oh I get it just fine. Anyone who honestly thinks Brady and co. weren't trying to cheat is being willfully ignorant.

Lots of players have cheated over the years, in lots of sports. Clemens cheated. Bonds cheated. And now Brady cheated. Doesn't make them less than great players.
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Whether Brady actually cheated is irrelevant for the appeal. What's relevant is what the league can prove using the more probable than not standard. I think Brady cheated, but yet I think Brady will win the appeal. It is possible to think both based on the league's shoddy ball inspection process.
 
General Tso said:
The Pats blew it big time here. Even if it was true that McNally was called the Deflator because of weight loss, you still don't put it in the report. Nobody believes it and that's all everyone will glom on to. Now the entire report gets dismissed out of hand. It's a shame really because the report otherwise highlights some glaring holes and huge credibility issues with the investigation. Amateur hour all the way around on this, from the NFL to Wells to the Pats response.
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It doesn't matter what "everyone will glom on to". It only matters what the arbitrator who is hearing the appeal will glom on to.

 
Not really. In the end, this isn't about how many games Brady gets as a suspension, or the fine, or the draft picks. It's about Brady's legacy, and that has been irreparably damaged. He did it, and everyone other than blind homers know it. And "the delfator" = trying to lose weight thing will only cement it in the eyes of the public.

 
Rich Conway said:
Not really. In the end, this isn't about how many games Brady gets as a suspension, or the fine, or the draft picks. It's about Brady's legacy, and that has been irreparably damaged. He did it, and everyone other than blind homers know it. And "the delfator" = trying to lose weight thing will only cement it in the eyes of the public.
Click to expand...
If Brady wins his appeal, Brady's legacy will be damaged only for the lifespan of those who remember the controversy. The suspension will be off the books, and the mention of possible suspension will be much, much smaller in Brady bios far down the road.
 
Al O said:
Dan Lambskin said:
Sabertooth said:
Tom Servo said:
By the way, I :lmao: at those Pats fans playing the "you're jealous" card. Here's a short list of team who probably aren't jealous of the Patriots:

Steelers

49ers

Cowboys

Packers

Giants

I'm sure there might be others...
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Yep. Pats have almost 1/3 of the rings the Packers do. Almost.
Click to expand...
Huh?
Click to expand...
The Packers have the most NFL Championships of any team. I don't think they gave rings back then, though.
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:yes:

 
Gary Coal Man said:
Rich Conway said:
Not really. In the end, this isn't about how many games Brady gets as a suspension, or the fine, or the draft picks. It's about Brady's legacy, and that has been irreparably damaged. He did it, and everyone other than blind homers know it. And "the delfator" = trying to lose weight thing will only cement it in the eyes of the public.
Click to expand...
If Brady wins his appeal, Brady's legacy will be damaged only for the lifespan of those who remember the controversy. The suspension will be off the books, and the mention of possible suspension will be much, much smaller in Brady bios far down the road.
Click to expand...
Fair enough. Of course, they say that the first person to live to 150 is alive and probably in his/her 50s now. So, lifespan of those who remember may yet be quite a while.

 
Rich Conway said:
Gary Coal Man said:
Rich Conway said:
Not really. In the end, this isn't about how many games Brady gets as a suspension, or the fine, or the draft picks. It's about Brady's legacy, and that has been irreparably damaged. He did it, and everyone other than blind homers know it. And "the delfator" = trying to lose weight thing will only cement it in the eyes of the public.
Click to expand...
If Brady wins his appeal, Brady's legacy will be damaged only for the lifespan of those who remember the controversy. The suspension will be off the books, and the mention of possible suspension will be much, much smaller in Brady bios far down the road.
Click to expand...
Fair enough. Of course, they say that the first person to live to 150 is alive and probably in his/her 50s now. So, lifespan of those who remember may yet be quite a while.
Click to expand...
True.Most people don't remember when Sammy Baugh got caught with a tranny, but I was there.

 
Gary Coal Man said:
Rich Conway said:
Gary Coal Man said:
Rich Conway said:
Not really. In the end, this isn't about how many games Brady gets as a suspension, or the fine, or the draft picks. It's about Brady's legacy, and that has been irreparably damaged. He did it, and everyone other than blind homers know it. And "the delfator" = trying to lose weight thing will only cement it in the eyes of the public.
Click to expand...
If Brady wins his appeal, Brady's legacy will be damaged only for the lifespan of those who remember the controversy. The suspension will be off the books, and the mention of possible suspension will be much, much smaller in Brady bios far down the road.
Click to expand...
Fair enough. Of course, they say that the first person to live to 150 is alive and probably in his/her 50s now. So, lifespan of those who remember may yet be quite a while.
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True.Most people don't remember when Sammy Baugh got caught with a tranny, but I was there.
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Cop? Or the tranny?

 
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