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How To Get To Heaven When You Die (1 Viewer)

proninja said:
matuski said:
God didn't write the Bible, so at some point you have decided to accept that God has indeed had these conversations with people and they are telling you secondhand.
Click to expand...
Well, you certainly seem to be an expert on scripture. Just like Paddington.
Click to expand...
Of course here we go with the deflecting when you know exactly what I mean.

How do you know what your god is all about? Unless you yourself have had this conversation with him (which you shot down as not believable), then you are getting it second hand (or even third hand). Is it better or worse that the message doesn't come from the horses mouth? Another conversation I suppose....

It seems to be the case that while you don't believe it when people say they talk to a god, you do believe it when a book tells you someone else claimed they were the son of a god?

 
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proninja said:
matuski said:
God didn't write the Bible, so at some point you have decided to accept that God has indeed had these conversations with people and they are telling you secondhand.
Click to expand...
Well, you certainly seem to be an expert on scripture. Just like Paddington.
Click to expand...
Regardless of who is/isn't an expert on scripture, what are the possibilities here?

1. God wrote the bible

2. God had conversations with people and they wrote the bible

3. The bible is all made up bull####

4. The authors believed that whatever popped into their minds was God speaking to them, so they wrote it down.

1 & 2 are impossible, so throw those out. 3 sounds good to me. I guess you could argue #4 has legitimacy, but is there any way to distinguish the divinely inspired from the delusional? I mean, if a guy walked up to you on the street today and said he was channeling a supernatural deity, you can't really say you'd think he was anything short of insane, right?

 
Talking to god = unbelievable.

Claiming to be a god = cool, I'm down.

 
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Given what books would be included in the new testament was decided by men in the 4th century, who claim they did not "choose" which books, but instead just "recognized" which books were divinely inspired.... and now that modern day archaeology has uncovered much evidence that the books they choose were altered during the 2nd and 3rd centuries, one either has to believe that God also inspired all the altering a long the way, or recognize that those men did a piss poor job of recognizing divinely inspired books.

Or accept that the desire to have a collection of post-Jesus written literature be considered "scripture" was a desire of men, and not the desire of God.

This is also why there are a ridiculous number of "Christian" interpretations of the same words. If anyone of us wrote a book that was altered over the centuries and then some 300 years later was elevated to divinely inspired status, there would be a ton of different interpretations of what we wrote, even without the alterations made after us, which only magnify the problem.

The biggest problem in the world is the ridiculous number of people who think they have God's words in their hands, and that their interpretation of it is right.

 
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Politician Spock said:
Given what books would be included in the new testament was decided by men in the 4th century, who claim they did not "choose" which books, but instead just "recognized" which books were divinely inspired.... and now that modern day archaeology has uncovered much evidence that the books they choose were altered during the 2nd and 3rd centuries, one either has to believe that God also inspired all the altering a long the way, or recognize that those men did a piss poor job of recognizing divinely inspired books.

Or accept that the desire to have a collection of post-Jesus written literature be considered "scripture" was a desire of men, and not the desire of God.

This is also why there are a ridiculous number of "Christian" interpretations of the same words. If anyone of us wrote a book that was altered over the centuries and then some 300 years later was elevated to divinely inspired status, there would be a ton of different interpretations of what we wrote, even without the alterations made after us, which only magnify the problem.

The biggest problem in the world is the ridiculous number of people who think they have God's words in their hands, and that their interpretation of it is right.
Click to expand...
I'd say the bigger problem is that the underlying message of love and compassion is lost, and you have people purported to be acting under God's authority doing all kinds of horrible things, which in turn drives people away from spirituality in general, since Christianity is the only spiritual frame of reference many people have. It really is a dying organism imo. All the creation mythology and the guilt doesn't jibe with 21st century thinking. Things like thoughtfulness, meditation, fellowship, sacrifice, etc. always will endure because they're at the heart of who we are. It's a shame to lose those things in the process of discarding an obsolete religion, but that's what's happening. It's replaced by all kinds of mindless crap in our culture.
 
McGarnicle said:
Politician Spock said:
Given what books would be included in the new testament was decided by men in the 4th century, who claim they did not "choose" which books, but instead just "recognized" which books were divinely inspired.... and now that modern day archaeology has uncovered much evidence that the books they choose were altered during the 2nd and 3rd centuries, one either has to believe that God also inspired all the altering a long the way, or recognize that those men did a piss poor job of recognizing divinely inspired books.

Or accept that the desire to have a collection of post-Jesus written literature be considered "scripture" was a desire of men, and not the desire of God.

This is also why there are a ridiculous number of "Christian" interpretations of the same words. If anyone of us wrote a book that was altered over the centuries and then some 300 years later was elevated to divinely inspired status, there would be a ton of different interpretations of what we wrote, even without the alterations made after us, which only magnify the problem.

The biggest problem in the world is the ridiculous number of people who think they have God's words in their hands, and that their interpretation of it is right.
Click to expand...
I'd say the bigger problem is that the underlying message of love and compassion is lost, and you have people purported to be acting under God's authority doing all kinds of horrible things, which in turn drives people away from spirituality in general, since Christianity is the only spiritual frame of reference many people have. It really is a dying organism imo. All the creation mythology and the guilt doesn't jibe with 21st century thinking. Things like thoughtfulness, meditation, fellowship, sacrifice, etc. always will endure because they're at the heart of who we are. It's a shame to lose those things in the process of discarding an obsolete religion, but that's what's happening. It's replaced by all kinds of mindless crap in our culture.
Click to expand...
The underlying message of Christianity is that God hates sin.

Without that, there is no need for Christ.

 
Politician Spock said:
McGarnicle said:
Politician Spock said:
Given what books would be included in the new testament was decided by men in the 4th century, who claim they did not "choose" which books, but instead just "recognized" which books were divinely inspired.... and now that modern day archaeology has uncovered much evidence that the books they choose were altered during the 2nd and 3rd centuries, one either has to believe that God also inspired all the altering a long the way, or recognize that those men did a piss poor job of recognizing divinely inspired books.

Or accept that the desire to have a collection of post-Jesus written literature be considered "scripture" was a desire of men, and not the desire of God.

This is also why there are a ridiculous number of "Christian" interpretations of the same words. If anyone of us wrote a book that was altered over the centuries and then some 300 years later was elevated to divinely inspired status, there would be a ton of different interpretations of what we wrote, even without the alterations made after us, which only magnify the problem.

The biggest problem in the world is the ridiculous number of people who think they have God's words in their hands, and that their interpretation of it is right.
Click to expand...
I'd say the bigger problem is that the underlying message of love and compassion is lost, and you have people purported to be acting under God's authority doing all kinds of horrible things, which in turn drives people away from spirituality in general, since Christianity is the only spiritual frame of reference many people have. It really is a dying organism imo. All the creation mythology and the guilt doesn't jibe with 21st century thinking. Things like thoughtfulness, meditation, fellowship, sacrifice, etc. always will endure because they're at the heart of who we are. It's a shame to lose those things in the process of discarding an obsolete religion, but that's what's happening. It's replaced by all kinds of mindless crap in our culture.
Click to expand...
The underlying message of Christianity is that God hates sin.

Without that, there is no need for Christ.
Click to expand...
I'm not going to argue that much since I largely agree with that, but what I'm talking about is the sense of community, charity and sacrifice that used to exist in this country, in part because people went to church. The concept of being "Christlike" meant something, and people were happy to be a part of something larger than themselves. I'm not saying it's a bad thing that we're discarding the fairy tales as we become more advanced and exercise critical thinking. The bad part is we've become a nation of shallow and self-absorbed comfort addicts who've lost that sense of community and social responsibility.
 
McGarnicle said:
Politician Spock said:
McGarnicle said:
Politician Spock said:
Given what books would be included in the new testament was decided by men in the 4th century, who claim they did not "choose" which books, but instead just "recognized" which books were divinely inspired.... and now that modern day archaeology has uncovered much evidence that the books they choose were altered during the 2nd and 3rd centuries, one either has to believe that God also inspired all the altering a long the way, or recognize that those men did a piss poor job of recognizing divinely inspired books.

Or accept that the desire to have a collection of post-Jesus written literature be considered "scripture" was a desire of men, and not the desire of God.

This is also why there are a ridiculous number of "Christian" interpretations of the same words. If anyone of us wrote a book that was altered over the centuries and then some 300 years later was elevated to divinely inspired status, there would be a ton of different interpretations of what we wrote, even without the alterations made after us, which only magnify the problem.

The biggest problem in the world is the ridiculous number of people who think they have God's words in their hands, and that their interpretation of it is right.
Click to expand...
I'd say the bigger problem is that the underlying message of love and compassion is lost, and you have people purported to be acting under God's authority doing all kinds of horrible things, which in turn drives people away from spirituality in general, since Christianity is the only spiritual frame of reference many people have. It really is a dying organism imo. All the creation mythology and the guilt doesn't jibe with 21st century thinking. Things like thoughtfulness, meditation, fellowship, sacrifice, etc. always will endure because they're at the heart of who we are. It's a shame to lose those things in the process of discarding an obsolete religion, but that's what's happening. It's replaced by all kinds of mindless crap in our culture.
Click to expand...
The underlying message of Christianity is that God hates sin.

Without that, there is no need for Christ.
Click to expand...
I'm not going to argue that much since I largely agree with that, but what I'm talking about is the sense of community, charity and sacrifice that used to exist in this country, in part because people went to church. The concept of being "Christlike" meant something, and people were happy to be a part of something larger than themselves. I'm not saying it's a bad thing that we're discarding the fairy tales as we become more advanced and exercise critical thinking. The bad part is we've become a nation of shallow and self-absorbed comfort addicts who've lost that sense of community and social responsibility.
Click to expand...
When slaves, women and homosexuals weren't raising stinks about their rights... sure I agree, things were peaceful. Christianity after all condones slavery, treating women as lesser than men, and of course hating what homosexuals do, so it was "Christlike" for Christians to just accept those social injustices.

 
Wouldn't it be great if people could be moral and compassionate toward each other without belief in a supernatural deity and/or the fear of eternal damnation?

 
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proninja said:
CowboysFromHell said:
proninja said:
matuski said:
God didn't write the Bible, so at some point you have decided to accept that God has indeed had these conversations with people and they are telling you secondhand.
Click to expand...
Well, you certainly seem to be an expert on scripture. Just like Paddington.
Click to expand...
Regardless of who is/isn't an expert on scripture, what are the possibilities here?

1. God wrote the bible

2. God had conversations with people and they wrote the bible

3. The bible is all made up bull####

4. The authors believed that whatever popped into their minds was God speaking to them, so they wrote it down.

1 & 2 are impossible, so throw those out. 3 sounds good to me. I guess you could argue #4 has legitimacy, but is there any way to distinguish the divinely inspired from the delusional? I mean, if a guy walked up to you on the street today and said he was channeling a supernatural deity, you can't really say you'd think he was anything short of insane, right?
Click to expand...
The bible is a book that was written over thousands of years, has been translated a bunch of times, was written by a lot of different authors, some of whom we can't even identify. There are many different genres of literature in scripture, and many different ways to read them. The fundamentalist and most atheists read the bible like you do, they just come to different conclusions with the same methodology.

I'm not convinced I have the right answers. I'm not an expert, and I can't tell you exactly how to read the bible. To do so would be utterly foolish. I'm just a guy.
Click to expand...
But you acknowledge that when you read the book you are taking other people's words for interactions with a god through visions or with a man that claimed to be a god... right?

Sounds a lot like what you dismissed with Ben Carson as a non credible effort to manipulate the gullible?

 
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CowboysFromHell said:
Wouldn't it be great if people could be moral and compassionate toward each other without belief in a supernatural deity and/or the fear of eternal damnation?
Click to expand...
That's what I was getting at last night. There are religions like Taoism that focus more on how to live a balanced life, without the false narratives and fearmongering. I doubt there are radical Taoists in China condemning gays and demanding that presidential candidates pass litmus tests and all the nonsense that goes on here. So Christianity falls out of favor here which was inevitable, but nothing of substance replaces it.
 
proninja said:
CowboysFromHell said:
proninja said:
matuski said:
God didn't write the Bible, so at some point you have decided to accept that God has indeed had these conversations with people and they are telling you secondhand.
Click to expand...
Well, you certainly seem to be an expert on scripture. Just like Paddington.
Click to expand...
Regardless of who is/isn't an expert on scripture, what are the possibilities here?

1. God wrote the bible

2. God had conversations with people and they wrote the bible

3. The bible is all made up bull####

4. The authors believed that whatever popped into their minds was God speaking to them, so they wrote it down.

1 & 2 are impossible, so throw those out. 3 sounds good to me. I guess you could argue #4 has legitimacy, but is there any way to distinguish the divinely inspired from the delusional? I mean, if a guy walked up to you on the street today and said he was channeling a supernatural deity, you can't really say you'd think he was anything short of insane, right?
Click to expand...
The bible is a book that was written over thousands of years, has been translated a bunch of times, was written by a lot of different authors, some of whom we can't even identify. There are many different genres of literature in scripture, and many different ways to read them. The fundamentalist and most atheists read the bible like you do, they just come to different conclusions with the same methodology.

I'm not convinced I have the right answers. I'm not an expert, and I can't tell you exactly how to read the bible. To do so would be utterly foolish. I'm just a guy.
Click to expand...
Don't sell yourself short, Judge. You're a tremendous guy.

 
McGarnicle said:
CowboysFromHell said:
Wouldn't it be great if people could be moral and compassionate toward each other without belief in a supernatural deity and/or the fear of eternal damnation?
Click to expand...
That's what I was getting at last night. There are religions like Taoism that focus more on how to live a balanced life, without the false narratives and fearmongering. I doubt there are radical Taoists in China condemning gays and demanding that presidential candidates pass litmus tests and all the nonsense that goes on here. So Christianity falls out of favor here which was inevitable, but nothing of substance replaces it.
Click to expand...
Exactly. :yes:

 
Cowboys From Hell Wrote: Regardless of who is/isn't an expert on scripture, what are the possibilities here?

1. God wrote the bible
2. God had conversations with people and they wrote the bible
3. The bible is all made up bull####
4. The authors believed that whatever popped into their minds was God speaking to them, so they wrote it down.

1 & 2 are impossible, so throw those out. 3 sounds good to me. I guess you could argue #4 has legitimacy, but is there any way to distinguish the divinely inspired from the delusional? I mean, if a guy walked up to you on the street today and said he was channeling a supernatural deity, you can't really say you'd think he was anything short of insane, right?44

My response: 1 and 2 are NOT impossible, but it wasn't the first one, it was the second one. Also, they are moved by the Holy Ghost to write what they wrote. You wouldn't understand that unless you have the Holy Ghost inside you. I understand it because I DO have the Holy Spirit inside me.

 
Paddington said:
My response: 1 and 2 are NOT impossible, but it wasn't the first one, it was the second one. Also, they are moved by the Holy Ghost to write what they wrote. You wouldn't understand that unless you have the Holy Ghost inside you. I understand it because I DO have the Holy Spirit inside me.
Click to expand...
As a born again Christian, I understood it for 30+ years.... until I saw the evidence that the books that were decided in the 4th century to be deemed "God's Word" were altered in the 2nd and 3rd centuries. There is no feeling inside of me that can cause me to deny what I've seen with my own eyes unless I consciously choose ignorance.

 
proninja said:
Paddington said:
2. God had conversations with people and they wrote the bible

My response: 1 and 2 are NOT impossible, but it wasn't the first one, it was the second one. Also, they are moved by the Holy Ghost to write what they wrote. You wouldn't understand that unless you have the Holy Ghost inside you. I understand it because I DO have the Holy Spirit inside me.
Click to expand...
From where do you get the belief that God had conversations with people and from those conversations we got scripture?
Click to expand...
Splitting hairs aren't we?

Conversations with god... conversations with a man who says he is god?

I'm more likely to believe someone who claims they have talked to a god in visions than one who claims to be a god himself. OK, not really, I'd laugh at both... but less at the visions than the deeming oneself a god or son of a god.

 
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matuski said:
proninja said:
Paddington said:
2. God had conversations with people and they wrote the bible

My response: 1 and 2 are NOT impossible, but it wasn't the first one, it was the second one. Also, they are moved by the Holy Ghost to write what they wrote. You wouldn't understand that unless you have the Holy Ghost inside you. I understand it because I DO have the Holy Spirit inside me.
Click to expand...
From where do you get the belief that God had conversations with people and from those conversations we got scripture?
Click to expand...
Splitting hairs aren't we?

Conversations with god... conversations with a man who says he is god?

I'm more likely to believe someone who claims they have talked to a god in visions than one who claims to be a god himself. OK, not really, I'd laugh at both... but less at the visions than the deeming oneself a god or son of a god.
Click to expand...
God finally gets around to talking to humans...takes the form of a burning bush.

 
If you don't believe people who say they talk to a god, and you don't claim to have talked to your god.... How do you come to know what your god's message is?

 
Politician Spock said:
McGarnicle said:
Politician Spock said:
Given what books would be included in the new testament was decided by men in the 4th century, who claim they did not "choose" which books, but instead just "recognized" which books were divinely inspired.... and now that modern day archaeology has uncovered much evidence that the books they choose were altered during the 2nd and 3rd centuries, one either has to believe that God also inspired all the altering a long the way, or recognize that those men did a piss poor job of recognizing divinely inspired books.

Or accept that the desire to have a collection of post-Jesus written literature be considered "scripture" was a desire of men, and not the desire of God.

This is also why there are a ridiculous number of "Christian" interpretations of the same words. If anyone of us wrote a book that was altered over the centuries and then some 300 years later was elevated to divinely inspired status, there would be a ton of different interpretations of what we wrote, even without the alterations made after us, which only magnify the problem.

The biggest problem in the world is the ridiculous number of people who think they have God's words in their hands, and that their interpretation of it is right.
Click to expand...
I'd say the bigger problem is that the underlying message of love and compassion is lost, and you have people purported to be acting under God's authority doing all kinds of horrible things, which in turn drives people away from spirituality in general, since Christianity is the only spiritual frame of reference many people have. It really is a dying organism imo. All the creation mythology and the guilt doesn't jibe with 21st century thinking. Things like thoughtfulness, meditation, fellowship, sacrifice, etc. always will endure because they're at the heart of who we are. It's a shame to lose those things in the process of discarding an obsolete religion, but that's what's happening. It's replaced by all kinds of mindless crap in our culture.
Click to expand...
The underlying message of Christianity is that God hates sin.

Without that, there is no need for Christ.
Click to expand...
God hates sin.

God creates people who sin.

God hates people.

 
proninja said:
Politician Spock said:
Given what books would be included in the new testament was decided by men in the 4th century, who claim they did not "choose" which books, but instead just "recognized" which books were divinely inspired.... and now that modern day archaeology has uncovered much evidence that the books they choose were altered during the 2nd and 3rd centuries, one either has to believe that God also inspired all the altering a long the way, or recognize that those men did a piss poor job of recognizing divinely inspired books.

Or accept that the desire to have a collection of post-Jesus written literature be considered "scripture" was a desire of men, and not the desire of God.

This is also why there are a ridiculous number of "Christian" interpretations of the same words. If anyone of us wrote a book that was altered over the centuries and then some 300 years later was elevated to divinely inspired status, there would be a ton of different interpretations of what we wrote, even without the alterations made after us, which only magnify the problem.

The biggest problem in the world is the ridiculous number of people who think they have God's words in their hands, and that their interpretation of it is right.
Click to expand...
Related: My crazy aunt posted this on facebook earlier today
Click to expand...
KJV is the only True Word.

 
Todd Andrews said:
proninja said:
Politician Spock said:
Given what books would be included in the new testament was decided by men in the 4th century, who claim they did not "choose" which books, but instead just "recognized" which books were divinely inspired.... and now that modern day archaeology has uncovered much evidence that the books they choose were altered during the 2nd and 3rd centuries, one either has to believe that God also inspired all the altering a long the way, or recognize that those men did a piss poor job of recognizing divinely inspired books.

Or accept that the desire to have a collection of post-Jesus written literature be considered "scripture" was a desire of men, and not the desire of God.

This is also why there are a ridiculous number of "Christian" interpretations of the same words. If anyone of us wrote a book that was altered over the centuries and then some 300 years later was elevated to divinely inspired status, there would be a ton of different interpretations of what we wrote, even without the alterations made after us, which only magnify the problem.

The biggest problem in the world is the ridiculous number of people who think they have God's words in their hands, and that their interpretation of it is right.
Click to expand...
Related: My crazy aunt posted this on facebook earlier today
Click to expand...
KJV is the only True Word.
Click to expand...
If you want to go directly to the answers (probably a sin worth of stoning):

http://www.landoverbaptist.org/news0800/answers.html

 
cstu said:
Todd Andrews said:
proninja said:
Politician Spock said:
Given what books would be included in the new testament was decided by men in the 4th century, who claim they did not "choose" which books, but instead just "recognized" which books were divinely inspired.... and now that modern day archaeology has uncovered much evidence that the books they choose were altered during the 2nd and 3rd centuries, one either has to believe that God also inspired all the altering a long the way, or recognize that those men did a piss poor job of recognizing divinely inspired books.

Or accept that the desire to have a collection of post-Jesus written literature be considered "scripture" was a desire of men, and not the desire of God.

This is also why there are a ridiculous number of "Christian" interpretations of the same words. If anyone of us wrote a book that was altered over the centuries and then some 300 years later was elevated to divinely inspired status, there would be a ton of different interpretations of what we wrote, even without the alterations made after us, which only magnify the problem.

The biggest problem in the world is the ridiculous number of people who think they have God's words in their hands, and that their interpretation of it is right.
Click to expand...
Related: My crazy aunt posted this on facebook earlier today
Click to expand...
KJV is the only True Word.
Click to expand...
If you want to go directly to the answers (probably a sin worth of stoning):

http://www.landoverbaptist.org/news0800/answers.html
Click to expand...
I got them all correct by selecting the most unreasonable and heinous answer.

God is love.

 
proninja said:
matuski said:
If you don't believe people who say they talk to a god, and you don't claim to have talked to your god.... How do you come to know what your god's message is?
Click to expand...
I'm working through exactly what I think the bible is right now. I don't know that I have a satisfying answer for your question.
Click to expand...
Cool. No worries.. just something I can't make work in my head from your previous statements here.

 
proninja said:
matuski said:
If you don't believe people who say they talk to a god, and you don't claim to have talked to your god.... How do you come to know what your god's message is?
Click to expand...
I'm working through exactly what I think the bible is right now. I don't know that I have a satisfying answer for your question.
Click to expand...
Sounds like an atheist in the making. :thumbup: Jk. Good luck in your personal search.

 
Politician Spock said:
proninja said:
matuski said:
If you don't believe people who say they talk to a god, and you don't claim to have talked to your god.... How do you come to know what your god's message is?
Click to expand...
I'm working through exactly what I think the bible is right now. I don't know that I have a satisfying answer for your question.
Click to expand...
recommended book
Click to expand...
That is a good book. I often recommend Bishop Spong's books to those looking for more information.

 
proninja said:
CowboysFromHell said:
proninja said:
matuski said:
If you don't believe people who say they talk to a god, and you don't claim to have talked to your god.... How do you come to know what your god's message is?
Click to expand...
I'm working through exactly what I think the bible is right now. I don't know that I have a satisfying answer for your question.
Click to expand...
Sounds like an atheist in the making. :thumbup: Jk. Good luck in your personal search.
Click to expand...
I'd be pretty surprised if that's where I ended up. Fortunately my faith doesn't rely on an inerrant bible. :)
Click to expand...
Yes. If your faith rests on anything rational or testable, you're in trouble. :P
 
proninja said:
CowboysFromHell said:
proninja said:
CowboysFromHell said:
proninja said:
matuski said:
If you don't believe people who say they talk to a god, and you don't claim to have talked to your god.... How do you come to know what your god's message is?
Click to expand...
I'm working through exactly what I think the bible is right now. I don't know that I have a satisfying answer for your question.
Click to expand...
Sounds like an atheist in the making. :thumbup: Jk. Good luck in your personal search.
Click to expand...
I'd be pretty surprised if that's where I ended up. Fortunately my faith doesn't rely on an inerrant bible. :)
Click to expand...
Yes. If your faith rests on anything rational or testable, you're in trouble. :P
Click to expand...
If your faith rests on anything rational or testable, it isn't faith in the first place ;)
Click to expand...
I will be interested to hear what you decide it does rest on.

 
wormburner said:
Politician Spock said:
wormburner said:
Politician Spock said:
Paddington said:
The terrorists were deceived by a false religion. They did believe a lie.
Click to expand...
Bomb any abortion clinics lately?
Click to expand...
Non sequitur. You knew that.
Click to expand...
Religion, by its very nature, is non sequitur.
Click to expand...
Circular reasoning to justify your previous post.
Click to expand...
Leave the bible study early tonight?

 
wormburner said:
Politician Spock said:
wormburner said:
Politician Spock said:
wormburner said:
Politician Spock said:
Paddington said:
The terrorists were deceived by a false religion. They did believe a lie.
Click to expand...
Bomb any abortion clinics lately?
Click to expand...
Non sequitur. You knew that.
Click to expand...
Religion, by its very nature, is non sequitur.
Click to expand...
Circular reasoning to justify your previous post.
Click to expand...
Leave the bible study early tonight?
Click to expand...
Now you're back where we started.
Click to expand...
We never went anywhere. Religious people don't budge.

 
wormburner said:
Politician Spock said:
wormburner said:
Politician Spock said:
wormburner said:
Politician Spock said:
wormburner said:
Politician Spock said:
Paddington said:
The terrorists were deceived by a false religion. They did believe a lie.
Click to expand...
Bomb any abortion clinics lately?
Click to expand...
Non sequitur. You knew that.
Click to expand...
Religion, by its very nature, is non sequitur.
Click to expand...
Circular reasoning to justify your previous post.
Click to expand...
Leave the bible study early tonight?
Click to expand...
Now you're back where we started.
Click to expand...
We never went anywhere. Religious people don't budge.
Click to expand...
And here you are being the adamant one. Fascinating.
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I gave 30+ years of my life to that cult called Christianity. There's no way in hell I'm going back.

 
What you said is completely false. Paul's writings to were gentiles, Jesus primarily preached to Jews under the Law. Jesus gave Paul the gospel of Grace and the 12 disciples approved of Paul's teachings. Paul's teachings were from God.

 
Paddington said:
What you said is completely false. Paul's writings to were gentiles, Jesus primarily preached to Jews under the Law. Jesus gave Paul the gospel of Grace and the 12 disciples approved of Paul's teachings. Paul's teachings were from God.
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So says Paul. He's not unique. Muhammad also claimed to have a divine connection...as did L. Ron Hubbard...and the urine-soaked bum living under the overpass I walked by on my way into work this morning.

 
Paddington said:
What you said is completely false. Paul's writings to were gentiles, Jesus primarily preached to Jews under the Law. Jesus gave Paul the gospel of Grace and the 12 disciples approved of Paul's teachings. Paul's teachings were from God.
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Jesus didn't just primarily preach to the Jews. He preached exclusively to the Jews. Only on rare exception did any gentiles benefit from Jesus at all. He said he was sent to the children of Israel, and to give of himself to gentiles is like taking the children's bread and casting it to dogs.

The belief that Jesus has anything to do with gentiles began with Paul... a guy who never met Jesus. The early Jerusalem church accepted gentiles if they became Jews. Because they were expected to become Jews, it created a stink from some in the church expecting the converts to obey the law in its entirety from day one. The church leaders agreed that was too great of an expectation (circumcision being the most burdensome of all 616) and said it's okay for converts to just start with a basic few laws as long as they are hearing the torah read in the synagogue weekly. It's the hearing of the torah read weekly that will lead them to obey more and more of the law as they mature as new Jews. Essentially, yes you will eventually want to get circumcised, but we're not burdening you with doing it on day one.

Paul then took this Council of Jerusalem ruling and spun it to say no one has to obey the law at all anymore. And thus Christ, who had nothing to do with lawless gentiles, and referred to gentiles as dogs, who came to restore Israel to the law, became the central focus of Paul's gentile and lawless religion. There are many documents that have been found in the past few centuries that speak to the 12 apostles rejection of Paul after they figured out what he was doing. In the beginning they appreciated what he was doing. They even went so far to believe that the reports they were hearing about him were false. But once it became undeniable, they cut ties with him completely. What Paul taught did not come from what Jesus taught the 12 apostles. What Paul taught came from what he claims was visions from Jesus, and that Jesus shared with him a secret mystery that he didn't share with anyone else, even the 12, who he taught for 3 and a half years. If you believe Paul, then you should also believe Joseph Smith (Mormons) and Ellen G White (Seventh Day Adventists) too. To say Joseph Smith and Ellen G White visions cannot be trusted, but Paul's can is convenient for the sake of the religion, but intellectually inconsistent.

 
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Politician Spock said:
dgreen said:
Politician Spock said:
Religious people don't budge.
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What does this mean? Should people budge for the sake of budging?And are you suggesting religious people don't budge, regardless of topic? Or is that people don't budge when religion is the topic?
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I'm referring to THIS
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Truthfully, that's what a lot of non Christians do when presented with evidence that supports Christianity. They won't even look at it or consider it. I have heard the other side. I learned about evolution all of my life in School. How much have you studied Creationism?

 
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