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Taking a Counter-offer to stay at a job (1 Viewer)

TLEF316

Footballguy
So long story somewhat short.....I was less than 100% happy at my current job for a variety of reasons. I've been there for just over 5 years. I'm having a huge year this year from a production stand point (due in part to a change in our philosophy. We've gotten a lot more aggressive) after a not-so-good year last year and I'm on track for a pretty significant bonus and some pretty big accolades. That being said, I basically have all the responsibilities and technical skills of a "senior" version of my current position but haven't been given that title yet. (mostly due to my sub-par production year last year)

About a month ago, I noticed that my previous employer (who I left about 5 years ago after they closed our office) had an opening. I decided it was a good time to look around a little bit, interviewed and got an offer this morning. We went back and forth a little bit, but they finally came to the table with what amounts to a 30% raise off my current salary plus a 20% signing bonus (again, based on my current salary). The thought process behind that bonus was that they recognize that I'd be leaving behind a really big number (possible like 150% of that signing bonus depending on how the rest of the year goes) to jump ship now.

I approached my current employer this morning with the recruiting company's initial offer (they've gone up a bit since then with minimal prodding). My boss' boss (my direct report isn't very strong) came back and offered me like a 13% raise on my current salary (which still comes in like 13 racks short of the competing offer). No other incentives or concessions and he claims that's all he can do without bumping me up a pay band (which he claims he can't do based on my poor 2014) Although he insisted that I'm on track for the promotion if I keep doing what I'm doing, he can't make any promises. His boss (our branch manager) also pulled me into his office this afternoon and gave me the hard sell on staying. Insisted that I come back to him If I get to the point where I'm leaning towards leaving. Makes me think there's a little bit more $$ available if I want it.

At the end of the day, there are pros and cons to both jobs. The current job has a shorter commute (although neither one is bad), the familiarity of my current role and accounts and greater advancement opportunity long term (Our home office is here and there are plenty of potential job openings down the road). The new role is obviously a lot more $$$ and a potentially better manager (although the woman I'd be reporting to hasn't impressed me too much so far). Also, the fact that they're willing to offer me so much more $$ makes me think that they really want me.

I'm someone who tends to be pretty loyal and I'd hate to basically throw away these 6 months of busting my ### to move some place new. If I move, the rest of the year is basically a throw-away and I have to start from scratch next year with no relationships and the "new guy" book of potential customers. It could take a while before I'm producing at a high level again.

So I'm still not sure which way I'm leaning, but my uncle (Who is a CEO of a pretty big company and whose business judgement I trust) made a point about taking the counter offer (if I decide to do that). He feels that if I do that, I'll always be "that guy" who just took an interview to leverage a few extra bucks. He thinks that it will always be held against me going forward (and will probably lower the raise I hopefully get next year if I earn my promotion). He feels that it will establish me as the guy who's just in it for the money and doesn't really care about anything else.

I don't want to be that guy (and really don't NEED the extra money. My initial decision to look around was based on other factors) but its a big raise to pass up. Barring a jump to management, it could be like 5-6 years before I get to this pay level at my current position.

Any thoughts would be appreciated. Really struggling with this one. I don't like change and I was really hoping they'd bring a little more to the table in terms of a counter. They've had a ton of turnover (we're already looking to fill a spot and had to go external to the lack of quality internal candidates) and can't really afford to lose my production and experience.

 
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Barring a jump to management, it could be like 5-6 years before I get to this pay level at my current position

 
Take the new job. If your current employer really cared they'd find away to make you happy NOW and not play games by dangling a carrot in front of you to make you stay. Actions speak louder.

 
The people I know who took a counter offer and stayed have always been looked at as "that guy". Word gets out.

In worst case scenario I have seen a guy blackballed in the industry because everyone knows if they interview him he has a history of bailing and sticking with his current employer.

On the other hand...your new boss would be a woman so it is a very hard call...

 
Why did your former employer close their office last time? Is this likely to happen again? Do you have other benefits at your current job that you wouldn't have at the new one (pension, 401k, etc)? I disagree with your uncle on accepting the counter if it is an occasional occurrence. If you tried it again next year, and then again 2 years down the road I could see it, but anyone would understand considering a 30% pay increase. It does sound like your current boss has room to maneuver, and you are extending them a courtesy by letting them know in advance before accepting a job.

I will say you need to be careful in the negotiations. I had somebody get an offer, I asked him what it would take to keep him and he said X. I got it done after jumping through some hoops, and then he came back and said "Well I'll talked to them and they re-countered with X +5% plus an additional week of vacation". I told him I hoped he enjoyed his new job. He said he wasn't sure if he was going to take it, and I told him I thought he should and that our offer wasn't on the table anymore. He took the job (which I think was for X - 5%, but still a raise from where he was), hated it, and took a job in a different department (at X - 5%, which is why I think that is what they were giving him). I completely understand getting a good opportunity and I think you should listen, but unless you have a truly unique skill set I'm not getting in a bidding war. I also can't stand being lied to, which is what he did with their "re-counter".

Without knowing the answers to the previous questions, if the companies are similar and stable, 5 or 6 year acceleration in salary is a huge benefit. It sounds like your current boss isn't that strong either, so even if you aren't impressed by the new manager it seems like a wash.

 
Why did your former employer close their office last time? Is this likely to happen again? Do you have other benefits at your current job that you wouldn't have at the new one (pension, 401k, etc)? I disagree with your uncle on accepting the counter if it is an occasional occurrence. If you tried it again next year, and then again 2 years down the road I could see it, but anyone would understand considering a 30% pay increase. It does sound like your current boss has room to maneuver, and you are extending them a courtesy by letting them know in advance before accepting a job.

I will say you need to be careful in the negotiations. I had somebody get an offer, I asked him what it would take to keep him and he said X. I got it done after jumping through some hoops, and then he came back and said "Well I'll talked to them and they re-countered with X +5% plus an additional week of vacation". I told him I hoped he enjoyed his new job. He said he wasn't sure if he was going to take it, and I told him I thought he should and that our offer wasn't on the table anymore. He took the job (which I think was for X - 5%, but still a raise from where he was), hated it, and took a job in a different department (at X - 5%, which is why I think that is what they were giving him). I completely understand getting a good opportunity and I think you should listen, but unless you have a truly unique skill set I'm not getting in a bidding war. I also can't stand being lied to, which is what he did with their "re-counter".

Without knowing the answers to the previous questions, if the companies are similar and stable, 5 or 6 year acceleration in salary is a huge benefit. It sounds like your current boss isn't that strong either, so even if you aren't impressed by the new manager it seems like a wash.
The office closing last time was a different department. Basically, they consolidated the operations of 40 branches down to 10 regional centers. The kind of business that we dealt with in that department lends itself to the "service center" type approach. The group I'd be working in if I take the job handles larger, more complex business and requires a local presence. Very little to no chance they'd ever close down this department.

Vacation days and benefits seem to be a wash. Both companies are basically at the top of the industry (you could easily make the argument that they're the top 2) and extremely stable. The potential new employer is much larger but no more prestigious.

I've been 100% honest with my current employer. Maybe that's bad negotiating, but the salary offer was so big I didn't think it was worth it to try and embellish. I told them I had an initial offer and that I was expecting a slightly higher counter later today (which happened). My boss claims his counter is the absolute highest he can go (although the later discussion with the branch manager, who wasn't looped in until after the fact, seems to suggest otherwise)

Also, current boss is a guy only a couple of years older than me. Potential new boss is a woman in probably her late 40's/early 50's. Seems like of frumpy and not all that impressive. Even though current boss is kind of soft, his boss (my departmental manager) is a guy that gets things done and is really the decision maker.

 
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Two words... When your current bosses say they can't promise you anything? Believe them.
This.

Can't promise you anything = "you aren't management material but we aren't going to tell you that directly"

ETA: I should be clear....I don't mean personally you aren't management material TLEF, I just think that's the cop out most people hear when there's little chance of them moving up.

 
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take the new job. There is a reason you were looking right? Make sure you don't burn the bridge because you never know what may happen down the road. Use the rest of this year to get yourself ready to have a blockbuster 2016. This is a no brainer.

 
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Two words... When your current bosses say they can't promise you anything? Believe them.
This.Can't promise you anything = "you aren't management material but we aren't going to tell you that directly"
I don't know man... That's a bit harsh. I've had to tell really great staff in the past this is the best I can do and they were management material down the road. Sometimes you have a budget and have to stick with it. Sometimes HR makes you let them go just so that everyone else doesn't get the impression that they should go out and interview so they can be the next guy to get a 20% bump.

It's not always cut and dry.

 
9 times out of 10 it is a bad idea to take a counter offer but that doesn't mean your situation isn't that 10th time where it makes sense. If you don't want to be that guy, simply address it with your current employer and say that is your concern. Tell them you have decided to stay and want there to be a commitment from both parties to make sure you are there for several more years. Tell them you would like them to put a two year retention bonus on the table for you to stay. Let them know if can be contingent on you hitting certain performance numbers.

 
5-6 years to get to that level of salary is enormous. Add that difference in pay up over the years and put a total dollar amount on the move. Tack on a reasonable rate of return and figure out how much you're leaving on the table in retirement by sticking at your current job. You could be talking about retiring a couple years earlier than originally planned. Obviously you're not planning on never leaving your job and finding something better but what does your portfolio look like 20 years from now with another $150K invested over the next five years?

 
I'd go with the new job. If the old job steps up to above 20% raise, I would give it thought with the year you've had.

I'd rather get paid now than shoot for a maybe later. Best of luck either way!

 
Why did your former employer close their office last time? Is this likely to happen again? Do you have other benefits at your current job that you wouldn't have at the new one (pension, 401k, etc)? I disagree with your uncle on accepting the counter if it is an occasional occurrence. If you tried it again next year, and then again 2 years down the road I could see it, but anyone would understand considering a 30% pay increase. It does sound like your current boss has room to maneuver, and you are extending them a courtesy by letting them know in advance before accepting a job.

I will say you need to be careful in the negotiations. I had somebody get an offer, I asked him what it would take to keep him and he said X. I got it done after jumping through some hoops, and then he came back and said "Well I'll talked to them and they re-countered with X +5% plus an additional week of vacation". I told him I hoped he enjoyed his new job. He said he wasn't sure if he was going to take it, and I told him I thought he should and that our offer wasn't on the table anymore. He took the job (which I think was for X - 5%, but still a raise from where he was), hated it, and took a job in a different department (at X - 5%, which is why I think that is what they were giving him). I completely understand getting a good opportunity and I think you should listen, but unless you have a truly unique skill set I'm not getting in a bidding war. I also can't stand being lied to, which is what he did with their "re-counter".

Without knowing the answers to the previous questions, if the companies are similar and stable, 5 or 6 year acceleration in salary is a huge benefit. It sounds like your current boss isn't that strong either, so even if you aren't impressed by the new manager it seems like a wash.
The office closing last time was a different department. Basically, they consolidated the operations of 40 branches down to 10 regional centers. The kind of business that we dealt with in that department lends itself to the "service center" type approach. The group I'd be working in if I take the job handles larger, more complex business and requires a local presence. Very little to no chance they'd ever close down this department.

Vacation days and benefits seem to be a wash. Both companies are basically at the top of the industry (you could easily make the argument that they're the top 2) and extremely stable. The potential new employer is much larger but no more prestigious.

I've been 100% honest with my current employer. Maybe that's bad negotiating, but the salary offer was so big I didn't think it was worth it to try and embellish. I told them I had an initial offer and that I was expecting a slightly higher counter later today (which happened). My boss claims his counter is the absolute highest he can go (although the later discussion with the branch manager, who wasn't looped in until after the fact, seems to suggest otherwise)

Also, current boss is a guy only a couple of years older than me. Potential new boss is a woman in probably her late 40's/early 50's. Seems like of frumpy and not all that impressive. Even though current boss is kind of soft, his boss (my departmental manager) is a guy that gets things done and is really the decision maker.
With all else being equal, I'd probably take the new job. The opportunity to invest that 5-6 year salary acceleration, plus the incremental gains on your presumed standard raises, would be difficult to turn down. Also having a frumpy boss is not always a bad thing if the higher ups can see what you are doing.

 
Can you get on the FFA as much at new job?

Better think this through
Higher cube walls, so yeah, probably more.

Although to be honest, the set up of the office seemed very secluded. (high cubes, tough to see anyone else) The environment isn't conducive to collaboration even though that's what they say they preach.

 
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If I've already got the ball rolling on a new job, it would take a sizable counter offer from my current employer to keep me. And you're not getting that. Take the new job.

 
Seems to me a true counter-offer would at least come close to what you were being offered. A little bump plus a we can make no promises just doesn't cut it.

 
Most of the advice I've seen on this subject is that the new job is the way to go. But only you know your company and whether they would hold it against you if you stayed. Another thing to consider is if the things that caused you to look around in the first place are actually solved, and if not, what is enticing you to stay. Is it just fear of the unknown (I'm a bad one to preach about that, I wait way to long before switching jobs. Career-wise, I should probably be looking right now, even though I really like my job.)

I wouldn't worry about working for a woman, that should be a non-issue. Only her competence, or lack there-of, should matter.

Good luck!

 
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Can you get on the FFA as much at new job?

Better think this through
Higher cube walls, so yeah, probably more.

Although to be honest, the set up of the office seemed very secluded. (high cubes, tough to see anyone else) The environment isn't conducive to collaboration even though that's what they say they preach.
don't ever be mad about cube privacy. Collaboration is about employee's attitude, not related to cube wall height.

Take the new job. 5 or 6 years setback on the salary difference -- don't think about that in terms of you don't need the money now. Think about the total difference in earnings over the life of your working career.

If you don't need the extra money, go take the new gig and take the difference in salary and max your 401k, max your Roth, and dump the rest into a index fund or a CD ladder. Your 65 year old self will thank you. Also, since I'm fully channeling Dentist at this point, go poop on someone's chest for good measure.

 
Seems to me a true counter-offer would at least come close to what you were being offered. A little bump plus a we can make no promises just doesn't cut it.
To be fair, their counter offer was only 5 racks short of the initial offer from the new company. To me, the positives of staying there (commute, familiarity, established relationships, home office proximity) are worth more than $5K pre-taxes. They obviously didn't match the signing bonus, but considering the year end bonus I'm likely to get (barring a Hurricane Sandy sized disaster) I wouldn't expect them to do so.

With the other company's recent counter, that gap is nearly 3x that. Now we're getting into "that basically pays my mortgage" territory. That's a big deal.

 
Most of the advice I've seen on this subject is that the new job is the way to go. But only you know your company and whether they would hold it against you if you stayed. Another thing to consider is if the things that caused you to look around in the first place are actually solved, and if not, what is enticing you to stay. Is it just fear of the unknown (I'm a bad one to preach about that, I wait way to long before switching jobs. Career-wise, I should probably be looking right now, even though I really like my job.)

I wouldn't worry about working for a woman, that should be a non-issue. Only her competence, or lack there-of, should matter.

Good luck!
My previous boss was a woman. It didn't bother me. But she was young (and yes...attractive. No, no pics) and brought some energy to the place. Reporting to someone who could be my mother (I'm 31. She's probably close to 50) is a whole different ball game.

I don't think they'd hold it against me from an attitude stand point if I stayed. For the branch manager to pull me into his office and make the appeal he did, I think they legitimately want to keep me. I've seen other examples of people leaving and coming back within a year or 2 with no ill-feelings. I'm more concerned about it being held against me financially.

"So we're going to give TLEF his promotion now, but since he strong-armed us into giving him X back in June, we're only giving him Y now". At that point, they're basically treating this raise as an advance on something I'm likely to earn 6 months from now.

 
Are you in an field where buyouts and mergers happen often?

If so, is one of the companies more established and not going anywhere? That might factor in as well for me.

 
I was one who was convinced to stay at the old job with a lucrative offer from a different company. They gave me a new titly and pay raise as part of it. It went well at first then a few years later there was a reorganization and the new regional manager immediately put me on the chopping block as the position did not meet his "vision".

 
You need to get over this woman boss thing...pretty ridiculous. Ever think that maybe that attitude (or something similar) is why you aren't getting the offer you want from your current job? Also, if lady boss truly stinks at her job isn't that an opportunity for you? Especially versus staying where you are essentially the same age as your boss?

 
Take the new job. If your current employer really cared they'd find away to make you happy NOW and not play games by dangling a carrot in front of you to make you stay. Actions speak louder.
I once read a bio of a sales guy that was retired at 45 as the SVP of Global Sales for a Fortune 500 company. He said his "secret" to success was that every day he went to work knowing his job was to get a better job. By working hard and getting promoted, by working hard and being sought by other employers, but always realizing that "loyalty" benefits the employer a lot more than it benefits the employee. He retired because he had enough money and felt he has run out of "better" jobs to go to.

Take the new role. Congratulations on the money and on being with a company that really really wants you.

 
Honda aside, the bottom line is that it's poor strategy to accept a counteroffer from your current employer.
As a general rule I agree, but there's an exception to every rule. I think the exception here is if the current employer blows your socks off by making an offer you absolutely can not refuse - like significantly more than the position is worth or significantly above your market value (based on skillset, experience, or whatever's relevant in your field). That happened to me and there have been no negative consequences.

TLEF's counter offer was meh. He should bolt and not look back.

 
You need to get over this woman boss thing...pretty ridiculous. Ever think that maybe that attitude (or something similar) is why you aren't getting the offer you want from your current job? Also, if lady boss truly stinks at her job isn't that an opportunity for you? Especially versus staying where you are essentially the same age as your boss?
i dont have any issues working for a woman. I've been doing so for the past 2 years with zero problems.

This particular woman just hasn't inspired much confidence in our interactions so far. Just seems kinda meh.

I've been going back and forth on this all night. At this point, it really does seem like actions speak louder than words. My current employer is in growth mode (led by me this year), is already short staffed and still only threw a token raise my way to try to get me to stay. I absolutely hate to leave in the middle of a successful year like this, but it really doesn't seem like they're all that concerned about it. They clearly value the budget (which I still don't believe is valid. We've lost 2 or 3 high paid individuals over the course of the past year and replaced them with cheaper folks) and the "message" my raise would send over me as an individual. Meanwhile, new company is falling all over themselves trying to hire me despite having a much larger team and no real NEED to fill an opening.

 
Lots of companies roll out the red carpet when recruiting new talent, doesn't alway indicate how they value employees once on board.
I recognize that. But I worked at the new company for 3 years out of college. My parents and my Uncle also worked there for years. I got caught in the middle of a reorganization the last time, but they took care of me (kept me on for like 9 months while I searched for a new job, gave me all kinds of free time off to interview, paid me a generous retention bonus to stay through the transition).

It really is a good company and I knew that going in. I wouldn't have interviewed with a dumpy 2nd rate company.

 
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Which job would make you a happier person outside of work? Which job would cause less stress while you're not at work?

 
You sound like you keep trying to justify staying with current company and playing devil's advocate about why there's reasons to stay while it seems that you know that switching is the right choice and the better option both short and long term. You've also been told that here almost unanimously, which as I know you're quite aware, virtually never happens here.

The bottom line is that the new job is more money, it's a new start (which can be a very good thing) and the old company, despite your performance and their apparent "need" for you, didn't ever really match the other offer and seem more interested in playing games in both salary as well as promotion.

Based on the information you provided and completely objective opinions, the clear answer recognized by most everyone here is to take the new job and don't look back. As you stated, there's a reason you interviewed in the first place and there's a reason you interviewed there in the first place.

Good luck in your new job.

 
You sound like you keep trying to justify staying with current company and playing devil's advocate about why there's reasons to stay while it seems that you know that switching is the right choice and the better option both short and long term. You've also been told that here almost unanimously, which as I know you're quite aware, virtually never happens here.

The bottom line is that the new job is more money, it's a new start (which can be a very good thing) and the old company, despite your performance and their apparent "need" for you, didn't ever really match the other offer and seem more interested in playing games in both salary as well as promotion.

Based on the information you provided and completely objective opinions, the clear answer recognized by most everyone here is to take the new job and don't look back. As you stated, there's a reason you interviewed in the first place and there's a reason you interviewed there in the first place.

Good luck in your new job.
The bolded is absolutely true and I know that. I guess I just really hate change. I honestly never thought my current employer would call my bluff (sort of) on this one. With all the turnover and lack of internal replacement candidates, I just figured they'd absolutely go to the wall to keep me. Clearly that hasn't happened, so the message seems really clear. They'd rather go through the inconvenience of finding, training and ramping up someone new than go a little outside the pay band box and pay me something close to my market value. I can't say I'm not disappointed, but I guess I should be excited that another great company values me so highly.

 
Lots of companies roll out the red carpet when

recruiting new talent, doesn't alway indicate how they value employees once on board.
I recognize that. But I worked at the new

company for 3 years out of college. My parents and my Uncle also worked there for years. I got caught in the middle of a reorganization the last time, but they took care of me (kept me on for

like 9 months while I searched for a new job, gave me all kinds of free time off to interview, paid me a generous retention bonus to stay through the transition).

It really is a good company and I knew that going in. I wouldn't have interviewed with a dumpy 2nd rate company.
Then run, don't walk, to the new job and don't even entertain a second counter offer from your current employer.

 

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