10 Current Players Who Are HOF Locks (1 Viewer)

http://www.cheatsheet.com/sports/nfl-10-current-players-who-are-locks-to-make-the-hall-of-fame.html/

The list really has 14 names, as they mention Peyton, Brady, Brees, and Rodgers but don't take the time or space to write about them.

The 10 non-QBs:

Larry Fitzgerald

Antonio Gates

Adrian Peterson

Jared Allen

DeMarcus Ware

Darrelle Revis

Charles Woodson

Steve Smith

Jason Witten

Andre Johnson

All are said to be mortal lock HOFers, even if they never played another down. Agree or disagree?

Anarchy99 said:

http://www.cheatsheet.com/sports/nfl-10-current-players-who-are-locks-to-make-the-hall-of-fame.html/

The list really has 14 names, as they mention Peyton, Brady, Brees, and Rodgers but don't take the time or space to write about them.

The 10 non-QBs:

Larry Fitzgerald agree

Antonio Gates agree

Adrian Peterson agree

Jared Allen maybe

DeMarcus Ware agree

Darrelle Revis maybe

Charles Woodson maybe

Steve Smith no

Jason Witten maybe

Andre Johnson agree

All are said to be mortal lock HOFers, even if they never played another down. Agree or disagree?

Click to expand...

Off the top of my head.

You left of a player who has been in the league for 8 years and he's made the Pro Bowl all 8 years.

Never has missed a snap his entire career.

Plays the second most difficult position in the league.

He is playing better than anyone on that list today.

He's a lead pipe synch to have a bust in the HOF.

EDIT: Only 11 players in the history of the league began their careers making 7 straight Pro Bowls, he is one of them. Not sure how many made it all 8 because Wiki hasn't been updated.

Bracie Smathers said:

You left of a player who has been in the league for 8 years and he's made the Pro Bowl all 8 years.

Never has missed a snap his entire career.

Plays the second most difficult position in the league.

He is playing better than anyone on that list today.

He's a lead pipe synch to have a bust in the HOF.

EDIT: Only 11 players in the history of the league began their careers making 7 straight Pro Bowls, he is one of them. Not sure how many made it all 8 because Wiki hasn't been updated.

Click to expand...

Yes, he should be on the list. No, tackle is not the second most difficult position.

Bracie Smathers said:

You left of a player who has been in the league for 8 years and he's made the Pro Bowl all 8 years.

Never has missed a snap his entire career.

Plays the second most difficult position in the league.

He is playing better than anyone on that list today.

He's a lead pipe synch to have a bust in the HOF.

EDIT: Only 11 players in the history of the league began their careers making 7 straight Pro Bowls, he is one of them. Not sure how many made it all 8 because Wiki hasn't been updated.

Click to expand...

I didn't leave anyone off any list. It's someone else's list. Thus the link to the article.

Anarchy99 said:

Bracie Smathers said:

You left of a player who has been in the league for 8 years and he's made the Pro Bowl all 8 years.

Never has missed a snap his entire career.

Plays the second most difficult position in the league.

He is playing better than anyone on that list today.

He's a lead pipe synch to have a bust in the HOF.

EDIT: Only 11 players in the history of the league began their careers making 7 straight Pro Bowls, he is one of them. Not sure how many made it all 8 because Wiki hasn't been updated.

Click to expand...

I didn't leave anyone off any list. It's someone else's list. Thus the link to the article.

Click to expand...

Sorry, Jimmy Kaylor's list is lacking since none of the players on that list play the second most difficult position in the league.

None of the players on that list haven't missed a snap in their career.

None of the players on that list made it to the Pro Bowl the first 8 years of their careers.

The 11 players who had made the Pro Bowl the first 7 years of their NFL careers are already in the HOF so I think Jimmy's list is lacking.

The list of other players who have done it and gone on to make the Hall of Fame includes **** Butkus, Joe Greene, Franco Harris, Merlin Olsen, Mel Renfro, Barry Sanders, Lawrence Taylor and Derrick Thomas.

I agree with 2, maybe 3 of those:

Gates

Revis

Peterson (probably)

ETA: Fitzgerald is pretty close.

The rest of have all been very good with flashes of elite, but I just don't see them as HOF material.

After looking at some of their stats and comparables, I'm probably selling Ware short. He probably belongs too.

mr roboto said:

Anarchy99 said:

http://www.cheatsheet.com/sports/nfl-10-current-players-who-are-locks-to-make-the-hall-of-fame.html/

The list really has 14 names, as they mention Peyton, Brady, Brees, and Rodgers but don't take the time or space to write about them.

The 10 non-QBs:

Larry Fitzgerald agree

Antonio Gates agree

Adrian Peterson agree

Jared Allen maybe

DeMarcus Ware agree

Darrelle Revis maybe

Charles Woodson maybe

Steve Smith no

Jason Witten maybe

Andre Johnson agree

All are said to be mortal lock HOFers, even if they never played another down. Agree or disagree?

Click to expand...

Off the top of my head.

Click to expand...

Keep thinking on this one.

Fitz, Witten, Smith, AJohnson I think will be either no or tough, I will take Fitz out of that group as almost definite.

Peterson and Woodson are definites. Revis very likely, Gates likely, Allen possible, Ware has a shot.

Eta - just stuck to the list. I took the OP to be who is the list wrong on, not who is missing from the list.

9 replies and no Megatron?

lolz

Julius Peppers belongs on the list too.

I'd hate to agree with any WR for the HOF as its such a fickle position when it comes to getting in. Agree on Gates, Revis, Woodson and Peterson.

Larry Fitzgerald, I don't think he should be. I think Fitz is one of the more overrated players in recent years. I think he's more akin to a guy like Torry Holt or Reggie Wayne in the hall of very good.

Antonio Gates, should be a lock

Adrian Peterson, probably should be a lock, assuming he doesn't get it any more off field trouble. They kept Marvin Harrison out so far, so I guess Peterson isn't a lock.

Jared Allen, easily a HOFer

DeMarcus Ware, easily a HOFer

Darrelle Revis, easily a HOFer

Charles Woodson, might have to wait a few years, but should eventually make it

Steve Smith, not quite

Jason Witten, not quite

Andre Johnson, not quite

Joe Thomas, Julius Peppers and Calvin Johnson should be on the list.

I think Shane Lechler is a darkhorse candidate. Not many 6-time 1st team all -pro guys not in the HOF, I could see him making it in a year with no obvious candidates.

Charles Woodson is lock for the HOF and I don't see much debate about that. He's won virtually every accolade a defensive player can win, won a Super Bowl and is the only player with 50 INTs and 20 sacks (only player with with 60 INTs and 20 sacks). He had years where QBs would throw his way as little as possible. Just several impressive years.

Honestly, I think he is one of the best players to ever play (by that I mean top 100 or so). When you combine his college and pro career his achievements are even more impressive--and he gets into the Hall of Fame easily on the merits of his pro career alone.

One great year in a decade and a half does not a HOF'er make. Sorry, Steve Smith.

A pure compiler whose counting numbers look good historically because he had a long career that coincided with the passing boom. By the time he becomes eligible, he'll be an afterthought.

Art Monk without the records or Super Bowls.

Freelove said:

One great year in a decade and a half does not a HOF'er make. Sorry, Steve Smith.

A pure compiler whose counting numbers look good historically because he had a long career that coincided with the passing boom. By the time he becomes eligible, he'll be an afterthought.

Art Monk without the records or Super Bowls.

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I could not disagree with this post more.

Sniff put up numbers despite the fact that until age 32, the best QB he ever played with was Jake Delhomme.

Two FBG staffers, Chase Stuart and Adam Harstad summarized it best in the following couple of articles:

http://www.footballperspective.com/the-steve-smith-post/

http://www.footballperspective.com/the-steve-smith-postseason-post/#more-23465

In a sense he is similar to Paul Warfield, one of the few WRs to be a first-ballot HoFer. Both had middling overall numbers, but put into context of how rarely their respective teams threw the ball, the numbers end up being elite.

The numbers have to be evaluated in context (for the same reason that a .300 batting average was a lot more valuable in 1968 than in 1933).

Here are all the players with at least 7 Pro Bowls + All-Pros who played in 2014 (excluding special teamers):

PB AP Player

14 7 Peyton Manning
8 5 Joe Thomas
7 5 Patrick Willis
8 4 Troy Polamalu
8 4 DeMarcus Ware
10 2 Tom Brady
10 2 Jason Witten
6 5 Kevin Williams
8 3 Antonio Gates
8 3 Julius Peppers
8 3 Charles Woodson
6 4 Jahri Evans
6 4 Darrelle Revis
7 3 Dwight Freeney
9 1 Drew Brees
5 4 Jared Allen
6 3 Adrian Peterson
7 2 Andre Johnson
7 2 Jason Peters
8 1 Larry Fitzgerald
5 3 Calvin Johnson
6 2 Nick Mangold
7 1 Lance Briggs
4 3 Ndamukong Suh
4 3 Earl Thomas
5 2 John Abraham
5 2 James Harrison
5 2 Haloti Ngata
5 2 Steve Smith
5 2 Wes Welker
6 1 Logan Mankins
6 1 Terrell Suggs
6 1 Reggie Wayne

As a first pass, I'd be tempted to say that 10 PB+AP (Brees on up) makes you a lock, and 8 PB+AP (Allen through Briggs) gives you a good shot at the Hall.

Only one player with more All Pro years (Manning) than Willis. I think Willis should get in. But I'm bias because he is my favorite player.

Anarchy99 said:

http://www.cheatsheet.com/sports/nfl-10-current-players-who-are-locks-to-make-the-hall-of-fame.html/

The list really has 14 names, as they mention Peyton, Brady, Brees, and Rodgers but don't take the time or space to write about them.

The 10 non-QBs:

Larry Fitzgerald

Antonio Gates

Adrian Peterson

Jared Allen

DeMarcus Ware

Darrelle Revis

Charles Woodson

Steve Smith

Jason Witten

Andre Johnson

All are said to be mortal lock HOFers, even if they never played another down. Agree or disagree?

Click to expand...

Agree that Peyton, Brady, and Brees, also mentioned in the article, are obvious locks. And Rodgers, too, even if he retired or got hit by a bus today.

IMO Gates is a lock. His stretch from 2004-2010 (505/6616/67 in 104 games) may be the most impressive stretch for a TE in league history.

IMO Woodson is a lock:

- He is #11 all time in interceptions, just 3 interceptions behind #7.

- He is tied for #5 all time in non-offensive TDs.

- He is a 3 time 1st team All Pro and 3 time 2nd team All Pro... and consider that his first 1st team selection was in 1999 and his last 1st team selection was in 2011. That shows a very long stretch of high level play.

- He is one of only 5 cornerbacks in NFL history to win the DPOY award, joining impressive company: Deion, Rod Woodson, Mel Blount, and Lester Hayes.

The rest of them are more questionable IMO. At least if the point is that they are all locks today, even if they never played another snap for whatever reason. If we make reasonable projections forward, I think all of the players named have a chance.

I would have said Peterson was a lock before last year's off field disaster. If he didn't play another snap, I definitely do not think he is a lock; it depends on how much (if at all) voters punish him for that. If he comes back strong this season, and especially if he plays well for 2-3 more seasons, putting this off field stuff further in the past, then IMO he will be a lock.

I think Steve Smith will ultimately fall short. He is close enough to the end that his resume is already written, and it's not good enough. I do not agree that voters will apply the context that some (Harstad, et al.) talk about with him. For the most part, players are judged on their performance in the situations they were in, not how they might have performed in different situations.

If Andre Johnson, Fitz, and Witten never played another snap, I doubt any of them would make it. All of them still have a chance to earn their way in.

Revis is an interesting test case of longevity. He has only played 7 seasons in the NFL but was 1st team All Pro in 4 of them (and never 2nd team All Pro). Unlike Woodson, he has no major awards, like DPOY, though he was arguably more deserving than Woodson in 2009. Ultimately, I think if he never played another snap he would not make it. But reasonable projections for him going forward suggests he should have a great chance to earn his way in.

Allen is #9 in sacks, though that is official sacks, and there are probably a few others who had more (Deacon Jones and Alan Page for sure). He has been 1st team All Pro 4 times. He is on the bubble if he never plays another snap, but it seems likely he will play long enough to earn his way in.

Ware is like Allen. He wouldn't get in if he never played again, but he can certainly earn his way in.

Of others mentioned in the thread, at Shane Lechler.

IMO Joe Thomas isn't there yet, but he is about as close as an OL with 8 years in the NFL can be. It is reasonable to project him to make it.

Calvin Johnson is certainly not a lock if he never played another snap, but I think it is reasonable to expect he will end up with a better HOF resume than any of the other WRs named in this thread.

As for Julius Peppers, I don't think he has much of a chance. Allen and Ware are both more deserving IMO.

ZWK said:

Here are all the players with at least 7 Pro Bowls + All-Pros who played in 2014 (excluding special teamers):

...

As a first pass, I'd be tempted to say that 10 PB+AP (Brees on up) makes you a lock, and 8 PB+AP (Allen through Briggs) gives you a good shot at the Hall.

Click to expand...

So you think all of these players are locks if they never play another down?

Joe Thomas
DeMarcus Ware
Jason Witten
Kevin Williams
Julius Peppers
Jahri Evans
Darrelle Revis
Dwight Freeney

I disagree on pretty much all of them. Thomas and Revis would be interesting cases, but the rest have more work to do IMO.

I don't think combining All Pros and Pro Bowls is a good method, since it obviously double counts (almost?) all All Pro seasons.

There's a thread on Smith and I think the consensus there was No.

I don't think Revis is. Not many 2nd 3rd best CBs make it, yet the elite do. He's going to have to stay excellent for a longer time. 6-7? years isn't extraordinary yet. Could be.

It's interesting that Fitz was a lock and seems to have fallen in some people's eyes as he's gotten old. Was more production expected in these later years? Boldin not even on the list.

Jared Allen is one of those personalities that people really like and you can't say whether it'll help or hurt him, but it probably helps.

I am looking forward to the Ed Reed and Troy Polamalu debates. Although I think both make it, "which one was better" should be fun.

Just Win Baby said:

ZWK said:

Here are all the players with at least 7 Pro Bowls + All-Pros who played in 2014 (excluding special teamers):

...

As a first pass, I'd be tempted to say that 10 PB+AP (Brees on up) makes you a lock, and 8 PB+AP (Allen through Briggs) gives you a good shot at the Hall.

Click to expand...

So you think all of these players are locks if they never play another down?

Joe Thomas
DeMarcus Ware
Jason Witten
Kevin Williams
Julius Peppers
Jahri Evans
Darrelle Revis
Dwight Freeney

I disagree on pretty much all of them. Thomas and Revis would be interesting cases, but the rest have more work to do IMO.

I don't think combining All Pros and Pro Bowls is a good method, since it obviously double counts (almost?) all All Pro seasons.

Click to expand...

Every single one of the 11 players in the history of the NFL that had made the Pro Bowl the first 7 years of their career is already in the HOF.

The only player on the list who played 8 years and made the Pro Bowl all 8 times is Joe Thomas.

Joe Thomas is the only player on any list mentioned who has never missed a snap in his career.

Just Win Baby said:

ZWK said:

Here are all the players with at least 7 Pro Bowls + All-Pros who played in 2014 (excluding special teamers):

...

As a first pass, I'd be tempted to say that 10 PB+AP (Brees on up) makes you a lock, and 8 PB+AP (Allen through Briggs) gives you a good shot at the Hall.

Click to expand...

So you think all of these players are locks if they never play another down?

Joe Thomas
DeMarcus Ware
Jason Witten
Kevin Williams
Julius Peppers
Jahri Evans
Darrelle Revis
Dwight Freeney

I disagree on pretty much all of them. Thomas and Revis would be interesting cases, but the rest have more work to do IMO.

I don't think combining All Pros and Pro Bowls is a good method, since it obviously double counts (almost?) all All Pro seasons.

Click to expand...

"Lock" is an overstatement, but I do think that Thomas, Ware, Williams, Peppers, and Revis should (and will) be in. Less sure about Witten (though he probably will be in), Evans, and Freeney.

Being arguably the best player in the NFL at your position is significantly more impressive than just being top 5ish, for a player's HoF case, so I think it's correct to count a season where a player makes first team All Pro as twice as impressive as a season where they only make the Pro Bowl.

ZWK said:

Just Win Baby said:

ZWK said:

Here are all the players with at least 7 Pro Bowls + All-Pros who played in 2014 (excluding special teamers):

...

As a first pass, I'd be tempted to say that 10 PB+AP (Brees on up) makes you a lock, and 8 PB+AP (Allen through Briggs) gives you a good shot at the Hall.

Click to expand...

So you think all of these players are locks if they never play another down?

Joe Thomas
DeMarcus Ware
Jason Witten
Kevin Williams
Julius Peppers
Jahri Evans
Darrelle Revis
Dwight Freeney

I disagree on pretty much all of them. Thomas and Revis would be interesting cases, but the rest have more work to do IMO.

I don't think combining All Pros and Pro Bowls is a good method, since it obviously double counts (almost?) all All Pro seasons.

Click to expand...

"Lock" is an overstatement, but I do think that Thomas, Ware, Williams, Peppers, and Revis should (and will) be in. Less sure about Witten (though he probably will be in), Evans, and Freeney.

Being arguably the best player in the NFL at your position is significantly more impressive than just being top 5ish, for a player's HoF case, so I think it's correct to count a season where a player makes first team All Pro as twice as impressive as a season where they only make the Pro Bowl.

Click to expand...

The HOF doesn't list strongside and weakside backer, RT and LT so some of the positions are a smidge different than others to qualify as all-pro.

For example, I don't think a RT has ever been all pro.

ADP as top RB is meaningful but suppose you think Richard Sherman was the top CB one year and Revis or Haden or someone else was second. It's great, an accomplishment, but at the same time it's a little bit less.

I'll echo the boldin comment. He's produced big time and was a difference maker for a super bowl victory

Steed said:

I'll echo the boldin comment. He's produced big time and was a difference maker for a super bowl victory

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I can't believe Boldin was never 1st team all pro and only 3 pro bowls.

Bri said:

Steed said:

I'll echo the boldin comment. He's produced big time and was a difference maker for a super bowl victory

Click to expand...

I can't believe Boldin was never 1st team all pro and only 3 pro bowls.

Click to expand...

Being good for a really long time is a lot different from being great.

Boldin was great for a rookie, and was never really all that amazing relative to his peers after. People want to put players they watched and were impressed by in. But Boldin hasn't been an elite receiver during his career. He's been amazing relative to, like, Charlie Joiner and Lynn Swann, but those weren't his peers. His peers were guys like Harrison, Moss, Calvin Johnson, etc. He's simply not in that company, much like Smith.

Frank Gore, perhaps?

Steed said:

I'll echo the boldin comment. He's produced big time and was a difference maker for a super bowl victory

Click to expand...

So you are saying you think he is HOF worthy? IMO he has zero chance and that is appropriate.

Bracie Smathers said:

Just Win Baby said:

ZWK said:

Here are all the players with at least 7 Pro Bowls + All-Pros who played in 2014 (excluding special teamers):

...

As a first pass, I'd be tempted to say that 10 PB+AP (Brees on up) makes you a lock, and 8 PB+AP (Allen through Briggs) gives you a good shot at the Hall.

Click to expand...

So you think all of these players are locks if they never play another down?

Joe Thomas

DeMarcus Ware

Jason Witten

Kevin Williams

Julius Peppers

Jahri Evans

Darrelle Revis

Dwight Freeney

I disagree on pretty much all of them. Thomas and Revis would be interesting cases, but the rest have more work to do IMO.

I don't think combining All Pros and Pro Bowls is a good method, since it obviously double counts (almost?) all All Pro seasons.

Click to expand...

Every single one of the 11 players in the history of the NFL that had made the Pro Bowl the first 7 years of their career is already in the HOF.

The only player on the list who played 8 years and made the Pro Bowl all 8 times is Joe Thomas.

Joe Thomas is the only player on any list mentioned who has never missed a snap in his career.

Click to expand...

Unless some of those other 11 players hung it up after 8 seasons and made the HOF, we are having an apples and oranges conversation. If those other 10 guys all went on to play well after their 8th seasons, then it wasn't just their first 8 seasons that got them in.

ZWK said:

Here are all the players with at least 7 Pro Bowls + All-Pros who played in 2014 (excluding special teamers):

[...]
As a first pass, I'd be tempted to say that 10 PB+AP (Brees on up) makes you a lock, and 8 PB+AP (Allen through Briggs) gives you a good shot at the Hall.

Click to expand...

For comparison, here is everyone since 1970 who has at least 7 Pro Bowls + All-Pros, is Hall-eligible, and is not in the Hall:

PB AP Player

7 5 Zach Thomas

8 3 Marvin Harrison

8 3 Kevin Mawae

9 2 John Lynch

7 3 Morten Andersen

7 3 Orlando Pace

8 2 Steve Atwater

8 2 Steve Wisniewski

6 3 Mike Alstott

6 3 Joey Browner

6 3 Deron Cherry

6 3 Cliff Harris

6 3 Karl Mecklenburg

7 2 Robert Brazile

7 2 Randy Gradishar

7 2 Jay Hilgenberg

7 2 Richmond Webb

8 1 Lemar Parrish

8 1 George Kunz

9 0 Ruben Brown

4 4 LeRoy Butler

5 3 Tony Boselli

5 3 Kenny Easley

5 3 Mark Gastineau

5 3 Keith Jackson

5 3 Greg Lloyd

5 3 Marvin Powell

5 3 Sterling Sharpe

5 3 Donnie Shell

5 3 Darren Woodson

6 2 L.C. Greenwood

6 2 Nate Newton

6 2 Michael Dean Perry

6 2 Isiah Robertson

7 1 Lomas Brown

7 1 Chris Hinton

7 1 Torry Holt

4 3 Willie Anderson

4 3 Cliff Branch

4 3 Nolan Cromwell

4 3 Leon Gray

4 3 Mel Gray

4 3 Herman Moore

4 3 Rick Upchurch

5 2 Todd Christensen

5 2 Ben Coates

5 2 Kevin Greene

5 2 Mike Kenn

5 2 Ty Law

5 2 Tom Nalen

5 2 Hardy Nickerson

5 2 Mike Quick

5 2 Jake Scott

5 2 Pat Swilling

5 2 Louis Wright

6 1 Eric Allen

6 1 Matt Blair

6 1 La'Roi Glover

6 1 Dennis Harrah

6 1 Bob Kuechenberg

6 1 Neil Smith

7 0 Steve Tasker

Only 8 guys with 10 or more PB+AP are not in the Hall yet, and I figure at least half of those 8 will make it in eventually (they are mostly recent retirees).

Pro Bowls don't mean nearly as much now since so many players skip it. When those guys skip it, other guys get qualified as Pro Bowlers to replace them. So there's like a 15-20% inflation of number of Pro Bowlers which devalues the whole thing.

Disagree. No way are guys like Steve Smith, Andre Johnson and Larry Fitzgerald mortal locks, especially given how stingy voters are these days when it comes to letting in WRs.

One more top notch season and Marshawn Lynch should be a mortal lock, although the media will have fun leaving him out for a while because of his treatment of them.

Freelove said:

Bri said:

Steed said:

I'll echo the boldin comment. He's produced big time and was a difference maker for a super bowl victory

Click to expand...

I can't believe Boldin was never 1st team all pro and only 3 pro bowls.

Click to expand...

Being good for a really long time is a lot different from being great.

Boldin was great for a rookie, and was never really all that amazing relative to his peers after. People want to put players they watched and were impressed by in. But Boldin hasn't been an elite receiver during his career. He's been amazing relative to, like, Charlie Joiner and Lynn Swann, but those weren't his peers. His peers were guys like Harrison, Moss, Calvin Johnson, etc. He's simply not in that company, much like Smith.

Click to expand...

I'm sure it started as an FF thought, but over time I think it's a fine barometer for an NFL season-he was great when he averaged 100 yards per game. He's better than just 3 pro bowls too.

Just Win Baby said:

Bracie Smathers said:

Just Win Baby said:

ZWK said:

Here are all the players with at least 7 Pro Bowls + All-Pros who played in 2014 (excluding special teamers):

...

As a first pass, I'd be tempted to say that 10 PB+AP (Brees on up) makes you a lock, and 8 PB+AP (Allen through Briggs) gives you a good shot at the Hall.

Click to expand...

So you think all of these players are locks if they never play another down?

Joe Thomas

DeMarcus Ware

Jason Witten

Kevin Williams

Julius Peppers

Jahri Evans

Darrelle Revis

Dwight Freeney

I disagree on pretty much all of them. Thomas and Revis would be interesting cases, but the rest have more work to do IMO.

I don't think combining All Pros and Pro Bowls is a good method, since it obviously double counts (almost?) all All Pro seasons.

Click to expand...

Every single one of the 11 players in the history of the NFL that had made the Pro Bowl the first 7 years of their career is already in the HOF.

The only player on the list who played 8 years and made the Pro Bowl all 8 times is Joe Thomas.

Joe Thomas is the only player on any list mentioned who has never missed a snap in his career.

Click to expand...

Unless some of those other 11 players hung it up after 8 seasons and made the HOF, we are having an apples and oranges conversation. If those other 10 guys all went on to play well after their 8th seasons, then it wasn't just their first 8 seasons that got them in.

Click to expand...

I don't think DeMarcus Ware has to do anything-he's in.

I can't imagine what your argument is with Witten. He made the pro bowl 10 times already. He was 1st team all pro during the Tony G and Gates era, twice. He was chosen over those two those years. He's only missed two games. His 110 catches in a season are the most by a TE. I believe his 18 catches in a single game are as well. For extra bonus type- He was Walter Payton NFL man of the year once.

GroveDiesel said:

Pro Bowls don't mean nearly as much now since so many players skip it. When those guys skip it, other guys get qualified as Pro Bowlers to replace them. So there's like a 15-20% inflation of number of Pro Bowlers which devalues the whole thing.

Click to expand...

Pro Bowls have been watered down and the same with stats like a 1,000 yard rusher now with 16 game schedules as apposed to when teams only played 12 game seasons like a Jim Brown when he left the game lapped every single player by thousands of yards and dozens of TDs, oh and Brown never missed a game in his career.

Joe Thomas doesn't play a position where he can ring up cheap POS stats just because. He plays a position where guys come in and look like the next Anthony Munoz but they flame out. See Jake Long or Matt Kahlill, or Jason Smith, or Levi Brown, or D'Brickshaw Ferguson, or a Robert Gallery, or a ....

Considering that Joe Thomas didn't just start hot but has consistently performed better than ANYONE at his position during his career and has never missed a single snap in his career and he has made ALL-PRO status in his career meaning he was voted as the best at this position by his peers means he isn't just some guy who put up cheap stats or was some flashy guy who everyone remembers one play. He is the meat and potatoes that the game relies on and he gets overlooked and that is why this list has no other offensive linemen. They get overlooked unless they make a mistake.

Name another offensive lineman who has been as consistently good and durable over the last decade? Over the last two decades? Three?

That legacy is why Joe Thomas is going to the HOF.

I'm surprised OBJ hasn't been mentioned. He's a lock.

Bracie Smathers said:

Name another offensive lineman who has been as consistently good and durable over the last decade? Over the last two decades? Three?

Click to expand...

Well if you go that far back then we can probably discuss some like Munoz.

In the last decade, I think people here will say Walter Jones or Pace.

I'm a Titans fan and enjoy pointing out Roos allowed less sacks than anyone else while he played and also has some of the more successful rushing attacks when CJ was hot. The Steelers and Ravens defenses were excellent during his time and despite not being in their division they seemed to face them every year. JJ Watt, Wiley, and Freeney were top sack guys at times. He averaged less than six and had a season where he allowed both 1 sack and 2-that's downright amazing. Roos has never received fan appreciation. I've never ever understood that. He was first team all pro and got voted to pro bowls. The announcers would discuss him during games and...it's so odd the fans never really seemed to appreciate the guy.

Bri said:

Just Win Baby said:

Bracie Smathers said:

Just Win Baby said:

ZWK said:

Here are all the players with at least 7 Pro Bowls + All-Pros who played in 2014 (excluding special teamers):

...

As a first pass, I'd be tempted to say that 10 PB+AP (Brees on up) makes you a lock, and 8 PB+AP (Allen through Briggs) gives you a good shot at the Hall.

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So you think all of these players are locks if they never play another down?

Joe Thomas

DeMarcus Ware

Jason Witten

Kevin Williams

Julius Peppers

Jahri Evans

Darrelle Revis

Dwight Freeney

I disagree on pretty much all of them. Thomas and Revis would be interesting cases, but the rest have more work to do IMO.

I don't think combining All Pros and Pro Bowls is a good method, since it obviously double counts (almost?) all All Pro seasons.

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Every single one of the 11 players in the history of the NFL that had made the Pro Bowl the first 7 years of their career is already in the HOF.

The only player on the list who played 8 years and made the Pro Bowl all 8 times is Joe Thomas.

Joe Thomas is the only player on any list mentioned who has never missed a snap in his career.

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Unless some of those other 11 players hung it up after 8 seasons and made the HOF, we are having an apples and oranges conversation. If those other 10 guys all went on to play well after their 8th seasons, then it wasn't just their first 8 seasons that got them in.

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I don't think DeMarcus Ware has to do anything-he's in.

I can't imagine what your argument is with Witten. He made the pro bowl 10 times already. He was 1st team all pro during the Tony G and Gates era, twice. He was chosen over those two those years. He's only missed two games. His 110 catches in a season are the most by a TE. I believe his 18 catches in a single game are as well. For extra bonus type- He was Walter Payton NFL man of the year once.

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a. Catches are an overrated stat, especially nowadays.

B. Who cares about him having an 18-catch game, especially when it was in a loss where he was force fed the ball cause they were down 20 early?

Uncle Grandpa said:

I'm surprised OBJ hasn't been mentioned. He's a lock.

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Agree; surprised he isn't being inducted this summer.

Bri said:

I can't imagine what your argument is with Witten. He made the pro bowl 10 times already. He was 1st team all pro during the Tony G and Gates era, twice. He was chosen over those two those years. He's only missed two games. His 110 catches in a season are the most by a TE. I believe his 18 catches in a single game are as well. For extra bonus type- He was Walter Payton NFL man of the year once.

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The argument is simple and you alluded to it. Written was at best the third best TE of his era behind Gonzalez and Gates. And his era also overlapped with others who will surpass him in Gronk and Graham.

There are just 8 modern era TEs in the HOF, where modern era represents players who played the bulk of their careers in the two platoon system, i.e., in the 1950s and later. Gonzalez will become the 9th, and Gates will become the 10th.

Now consider Witten is in competition with all positions. For example, look at all of the WR candidates. Who has been more valuable, Witten or Fitz? Etc.

The bar is too high for Witten.

GroveDiesel said:

Pro Bowls don't mean nearly as much now since so many players skip it. When those guys skip it, other guys get qualified as Pro Bowlers to replace them. So there's like a 15-20% inflation of number of Pro Bowlers which devalues the whole thing.

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Just Win Baby said:

Bri said:

I can't imagine what your argument is with Witten. He made the pro bowl 10 times already. He was 1st team all pro during the Tony G and Gates era, twice. He was chosen over those two those years. He's only missed two games. His 110 catches in a season are the most by a TE. I believe his 18 catches in a single game are as well. For extra bonus type- He was Walter Payton NFL man of the year once.

Click to expand...

The argument is simple and you alluded to it. Written was at best the third best TE of his era behind Gonzalez and Gates. And his era also overlapped with others who will surpass him in Gronk and Graham.

How many modern era TEs are in the HOF, 10? Going back 50 years? Now consider he is in competition with all positions. For example, look at all of the WR candidates. Who has been more valuable, Witten or Fitz? Etc.

The bar is too high for Witten.

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You're a Chargers fan though and it's been pretty well proven they lack objectivity here as Gates is a darling of their fans. You're just wrong because of how things developed over the years with the Chiefs and Chargers in the same division and the "my TE is better than your TE" shpeal. You probably don't admit Tony G was significantly better, very few do even though he amassed 500 more catches and 5000 more yards than Gates.

Witten has more catches and more yards than Gates during the exact same time period. Gates has more TDs. Witten has two 1st team all pro, Gates has 3. Witten has 10 pro bowls, Gates has 8.

So the guy with less catches and yards and pro bowls is soooo much better? it's not homerism?

Ghost Rider said:

a. Catches are an overrated stat, especially nowadays.

B. Who cares about him having an 18-catch game, especially when it was in a loss where he was force fed the ball cause they were down 20 early?

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A- Totally agree, passes are too. They should hold hands and walk to the end zone and the defense should throw down a red carpet.

B- I imagine the Giants and Cowboys and their fans cared. Probably the statisticians that record stats and quantify best ever stats. Maybe Tony G and Sharpe for bragging rights.

Bri said:

Just Win Baby said:

Bri said:

I can't imagine what your argument is with Witten. He made the pro bowl 10 times already. He was 1st team all pro during the Tony G and Gates era, twice. He was chosen over those two those years. He's only missed two games. His 110 catches in a season are the most by a TE. I believe his 18 catches in a single game are as well. For extra bonus type- He was Walter Payton NFL man of the year once.

Click to expand...

The argument is simple and you alluded to it. Written was at best the third best TE of his era behind Gonzalez and Gates. And his era also overlapped with others who will surpass him in Gronk and Graham.

How many modern era TEs are in the HOF, 10? Going back 50 years? Now consider he is in competition with all positions. For example, look at all of the WR candidates. Who has been more valuable, Witten or Fitz? Etc.

The bar is too high for Witten.

Click to expand...

You're a Chargers fan though and it's been pretty well proven they lack objectivity here as Gates is a darling of their fans. You're just wrong because of how things developed over the years with the Chiefs and Chargers in the same division and the "my TE is better than your TE" shpeal. You probably don't admit Tony G was significantly better, very few do even though he amassed 500 more catches and 5000 more yards than Gates.

Witten has more catches and more yards than Gates during the exact same time period. Gates has more TDs. Witten has two 1st team all pro, Gates has 3. Witten has 10 pro bowls, Gates has 8.

So the guy with less catches and yards and pro bowls is soooo much better? it's not homerism?

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I agree Gonzalez is the best TE in NFL history. No problem saying he had a better career than Gates has had. However, it is worth comparing them in their first 12 seasons, since that is how many seasons Gates has played to this point:

Gonzalez: 190 games, 1356 targets, 916 receptions, 10940 receiving yards (11.9 YPR, 8.1 YPT), 597 first downs (65.2% of catches), 76 TDs

Gates: 179 games, 1179 targets, 788 receptions, 10019 receiving yards (12.7 YPR, 8.5 YPT), 553 first downs (70.2% of catches), 99 TDs

Gates has arguably been better. Unfortunately for Gates, I doubt he will finish his career as strongly as Gonzalez did, and that is where the real separation will occur between them.

Since we are directly comparing Witten and Gates, Witten only earned 1st team All Pro in 2010 because Gates got hurt. Gates missed 6 games, yet he still had 50/782/10 in 10 games and was 2nd team All Pro. Witten played 6 more games yet had 1 fewer TD and just 220 more yards. So Gates was better than Witten in his 3 1st team All Pro seasons and also in Witten's 2010 1st team All Pro season. And in Witten's other AP 1st team All Pro season (2007), the Pro Football Writers selected Gates as their 1st team All Pro TE.

Witten and Gates entered the league in the same year. Here are their career totals:

Witten: 191 games, 1335 targets, 943 receptions, 10502 receiving yards (11.1 YPR, 7.9 YPT), 538 first downs (57.1% of catches), 57 TDs

Gates: 179 games, 1179 targets, 788 receptions, 10019 receiving yards (12.7 YPR, 8.5 YPT), 553 first downs (70.2% of catches), 99 TDs

Bottom line, Gates is better than Witten and it's not close. Witten has amassed more receptions than Gates, but that's it. Gates has been much more effective, with more first downs, much better YPR, and almost twice as many TDs on significantly fewer targets.

If you think that is me being a homer, I'm pretty sure you are on an island, possibly with some Cowboys fans.

On the flip side, Witten wasn't a cheater.

How is Witten any different than Andre Johnson (ie lots of catches, some decent yardage, very few TD, and behind other peers more deserving)?

Just Win Baby said:

Witten and Gates entered the league in the same year. Here are their career totals:

Witten: 191 games, 1335 targets, 943 receptions, 10502 receiving yards (11.1 YPR, 7.9 YPT), 538 first downs (57.1% of catches), 57 TDs

Gates: 179 games, 1179 targets, 788 receptions, 10019 receiving yards (12.7 YPR, 8.5 YPT), 553 first downs (70.2% of catches), 99 TDs

Bottom line, Gates is better than Witten and it's not close. Witten has amassed more receptions than Gates, but that's it. Gates has been much more effective, with more first downs, much better YPR, and almost twice as many TDs on significantly fewer targets.

If you think that is me being a homer, I'm pretty sure you are on an island, possibly with some Cowboys fans.

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I think Witten has been a better blocker between the two over their careers. Overall, they both have had great careers at the TE position.

Curtis Martin made the HOF so every player mentioned in this thread belongs in the Hall of Very Good with him.

Luke Kuechly