timschochet
Footballguy
Suppose these two are the nominees and you HAD to choose between them, which one?
I would vote for Bernie.
I would vote for Bernie.
Who did you vote for Saints?Ha yeah subtle subtext here.
Drew BreesWho did you vote for Saints?Ha yeah subtle subtext here.
Never mind this is my answer. Trust In Drew, on all currency. Thank you.Drew BreesWho did you vote for Saints?Ha yeah subtle subtext here.
I'll disagree.You could replace trump with a different conservative and bernie with a different liberal and the poll results would be about the same.
"If we have to break it to "fix it" so be it"He doesn’t flinch over returning to the 90 percent personal income tax rates of the 1950s for top earners. And if reducing income inequality reduces economic growth, he says, that’s fine. “You don’t necessarily need a choice of 23 underarm spray deodorants,” he said, “when children are hungry in this country.”
There is no "One Answer".. But I know for sure I wouldn't say "If the economy needs to stop growing, and people need to lose jobs in order to fix it, then so be it".snogger are you at all concerned about the fact that the middle class is shrinking ?
If you are, how do we fix that?
I do.Do we need 23 deodorants though?
I dont like Trump but spending your whole life in public service isn't a badge to be proud of.Comparing someone who has spent his life in public service .
Are you convinced that any proposals Trump or Sanders are proposing would improve the plight of the middle class?snogger are you at all concerned about the fact that the middle class is shrinking ?
If you are, how do we fix that?
He's making two great points:* None of the above..
Seriously, if that is what the current leaves us I will be looking for yet another 3rd party candidate to vote for.
Trump is just a blow hard.. Great to get the country riled up, but not someone that should be running the country.
Bernie .. Says the right things to get people to lineup behind him.. But this quote is enough to turn me away from him:
"If we have to break it to "fix it" so be it"He doesn’t flinch over returning to the 90 percent personal income tax rates of the 1950s for top earners. And if reducing income inequality reduces economic growth, he says, that’s fine. “You don’t necessarily need a choice of 23 underarm spray deodorants,” he said, “when children are hungry in this country.”
I am convinced that all the money continuing to funnel to the very top is not a sustainable path. re: Sanders -- am I convinced what Sanders says will work? No. Do I think it sounds better than any other action (or inaction) that I've heard suggested as a solution? Yes.Are you convinced that any proposals Trump or Sanders are proposing would improve the plight of the middle class?snogger are you at all concerned about the fact that the middle class is shrinking ?
If you are, how do we fix that?
If I could snap my fingers for a simplified tax code, I'd do it in a heartbeat. I don't think we're ever going to see that happen, though.There is no "One Answer".. But I know for sure I wouldn't say "If the economy needs to stop growing, and people need to lose jobs in order to fix it, then so be it".snogger are you at all concerned about the fact that the middle class is shrinking ?
If you are, how do we fix that?
I'd start with getting rid of most of the IRS( I know, those are jobs so a contradiction to my statement above but.. less government is better IMO) and 100% of the current Tax code, switch to the Fair Tax..
I believe at last count we are close to 74,000 pages in the Current tax code..
Both Bernie and Hilary want to ADD to that number.. Which in turn only helps the rich as they are the only ones that can afford to hire Tax Attorney's who can dig through all those pages to find the holes to take advantage of..
Income inequality can be reduced by lowering the income for those at the top by more than it's lowered for those at the bottom. Do you think that would be a good thing?He's making two great points:* None of the above..
Seriously, if that is what the current leaves us I will be looking for yet another 3rd party candidate to vote for.
Trump is just a blow hard.. Great to get the country riled up, but not someone that should be running the country.
Bernie .. Says the right things to get people to lineup behind him.. But this quote is enough to turn me away from him:
"If we have to break it to "fix it" so be it"He doesn’t flinch over returning to the 90 percent personal income tax rates of the 1950s for top earners. And if reducing income inequality reduces economic growth, he says, that’s fine. “You don’t necessarily need a choice of 23 underarm spray deodorants,” he said, “when children are hungry in this country.”
-You can't trade freedom for comfort. If the system is set up to reward the "elite" while the rest fight for a quickly fading middle class--freedom is a perfect word to use. Things will be very uncomfortable when we address income inequality. But we need to address it.
-The "economic growth" isn't benefiting America; it's benefiting the American elite.
Income and economic growth are not the same thing; very especially to the 99%.Income inequality can be reduced by lowering the income for those at the top by more than it's lowered for those at the bottom. Do you think that would be a good thing?He's making two great points:* None of the above..
Seriously, if that is what the current leaves us I will be looking for yet another 3rd party candidate to vote for.
Trump is just a blow hard.. Great to get the country riled up, but not someone that should be running the country.
Bernie .. Says the right things to get people to lineup behind him.. But this quote is enough to turn me away from him:
"If we have to break it to "fix it" so be it"He doesn’t flinch over returning to the 90 percent personal income tax rates of the 1950s for top earners. And if reducing income inequality reduces economic growth, he says, that’s fine. “You don’t necessarily need a choice of 23 underarm spray deodorants,” he said, “when children are hungry in this country.”
-You can't trade freedom for comfort. If the system is set up to reward the "elite" while the rest fight for a quickly fading middle class--freedom is a perfect word to use. Things will be very uncomfortable when we address income inequality. But we need to address it.
-The "economic growth" isn't benefiting America; it's benefiting the American elite.
The FairTax is a "scary" idea and as I've have mentioned many times I'm at about 70/30 in support... But that 30% uncertainty is enough to hold off until it gets to committee and gets fully "vetted"..If I could snap my fingers for a simplified tax code, I'd do it in a heartbeat. I don't think we're ever going to see that happen, though.There is no "One Answer".. But I know for sure I wouldn't say "If the economy needs to stop growing, and people need to lose jobs in order to fix it, then so be it".snogger are you at all concerned about the fact that the middle class is shrinking ?
If you are, how do we fix that?
I'd start with getting rid of most of the IRS( I know, those are jobs so a contradiction to my statement above but.. less government is better IMO) and 100% of the current Tax code, switch to the Fair Tax..
I believe at last count we are close to 74,000 pages in the Current tax code..
Both Bernie and Hilary want to ADD to that number.. Which in turn only helps the rich as they are the only ones that can afford to hire Tax Attorney's who can dig through all those pages to find the holes to take advantage of..
If you have a forest fire burning and your answer is "if we could just build a fan big enough to blow a giant wave from the ocean over here to extinguish this thing...." -- You may be right in your goal could work as a solution, but I'm also for calling out firefighting crews that use the existing infrastructure we have to keep the fire under control until that giant fan is designed, funded, powered, and functional.
I didn't say anything about economic growth. Would you rather everyone made less as long as income inequality was reduced?Income and economic growth are not the same thing; very especially to the 99%.Income inequality can be reduced by lowering the income for those at the top by more than it's lowered for those at the bottom. Do you think that would be a good thing?He's making two great points:* None of the above..
Seriously, if that is what the current leaves us I will be looking for yet another 3rd party candidate to vote for.
Trump is just a blow hard.. Great to get the country riled up, but not someone that should be running the country.
Bernie .. Says the right things to get people to lineup behind him.. But this quote is enough to turn me away from him:
"If we have to break it to "fix it" so be it"He doesn’t flinch over returning to the 90 percent personal income tax rates of the 1950s for top earners. And if reducing income inequality reduces economic growth, he says, that’s fine. “You don’t necessarily need a choice of 23 underarm spray deodorants,” he said, “when children are hungry in this country.”
-You can't trade freedom for comfort. If the system is set up to reward the "elite" while the rest fight for a quickly fading middle class--freedom is a perfect word to use. Things will be very uncomfortable when we address income inequality. But we need to address it.
-The "economic growth" isn't benefiting America; it's benefiting the American elite.
Corporatism needs to die. I am open to short-term setbacks to see that happen, personally.
That seems like an odd question. On the surface, I don't really see the value in it. My apologies if I am simply missing it.I didn't say anything about economic growth. Would you rather everyone made less as long as income inequality was reduced?Income and economic growth are not the same thing; very especially to the 99%.Income inequality can be reduced by lowering the income for those at the top by more than it's lowered for those at the bottom. Do you think that would be a good thing?He's making two great points:* None of the above..
Seriously, if that is what the current leaves us I will be looking for yet another 3rd party candidate to vote for.
Trump is just a blow hard.. Great to get the country riled up, but not someone that should be running the country.
Bernie .. Says the right things to get people to lineup behind him.. But this quote is enough to turn me away from him:
"If we have to break it to "fix it" so be it"He doesn’t flinch over returning to the 90 percent personal income tax rates of the 1950s for top earners. And if reducing income inequality reduces economic growth, he says, that’s fine. “You don’t necessarily need a choice of 23 underarm spray deodorants,” he said, “when children are hungry in this country.”
-You can't trade freedom for comfort. If the system is set up to reward the "elite" while the rest fight for a quickly fading middle class--freedom is a perfect word to use. Things will be very uncomfortable when we address income inequality. But we need to address it.
-The "economic growth" isn't benefiting America; it's benefiting the American elite.
Corporatism needs to die. I am open to short-term setbacks to see that happen, personally.
I'm not convinced that more crony capitalism (Trump) or more government/Democratic socialism (Sanders) will help the middle class. I think flattening the tax code and its perverse incentives (as currently constructed) would help. Deregulation in certain capacities would help - make it easier for small business startups to have a chance. Government intervention in housing, medicine, and higher education have led to cost increases for these sectors that have vastly exceeded inflation and greatly distorted their markets.Trump and Sanders seem to me to be advocates for the government choosing winners and losers. I'd prefer for freer markets to determine winners and losers.I am convinced that all the money continuing to funnel to the very top is not a sustainable path. re: Sanders -- am I convinced what Sanders says will work? No. Do I think it sounds better than any other action (or inaction) that I've heard suggested as a solution? Yes.Are you convinced that any proposals Trump or Sanders are proposing would improve the plight of the middle class?snogger are you at all concerned about the fact that the middle class is shrinking ?
If you are, how do we fix that?
And I'm not paying any attention to Trump. He's a clown and a sideshow. So i don't know what he's suggesting.
While we're at it, what do you think will help the middle class?
On one level, I very much agree with this. It's the reason why I'm not completely sold on Bernie, despite approving of much of his radical ideas; he trusts the government more than I do. I just worry that the free market has been bought and paid for already. 6 corporations control the media and their votes decide elections. I vote with my dollar as much as I can--but as each dollar I make is less valuable, the less it is likely it is to matter.I'm not convinced that more crony capitalism (Trump) or more government/Democratic socialism (Sanders) will help the middle class. I think flattening the tax code and its perverse incentives (as currently can constructed) would help. Deregulation in certain capacities would help - make it easier for small business startups to have a chance. Government intervention in housing, medicine, and higher education have led to cost increases for these sectors that have vastly exceeded inflation and greatly distorted their markets.Trump and Sanders seem to me to be advocates for the government choosing winners and losers. I'd prefer for freer markets to determine winners and losers.I am convinced that all the money continuing to funnel to the very top is not a sustainable path. re: Sanders -- am I convinced what Sanders says will work? No. Do I think it sounds better than any other action (or inaction) that I've heard suggested as a solution? Yes.Are you convinced that any proposals Trump or Sanders are proposing would improve the plight of the middle class?snogger are you at all concerned about the fact that the middle class is shrinking ?
If you are, how do we fix that?
And I'm not paying any attention to Trump. He's a clown and a sideshow. So i don't know what he's suggesting.
While we're at it, what do you think will help the middle class?
I would, too. If you find anyway we can have a free market in the USA, let me know. Given our current system, I'll take a middle class advocate within the govt.Trump and Sanders seem to me to be advocates for the government choosing winners and losers. I'd prefer for freer markets to determine winners and losers.
It's pretty simple- are you in the camp of reducing income inequality even if it meant less for everyone?That seems like an odd question. On the surface, I don't really see the value in it. My apologies if I am simply missing it.I didn't say anything about economic growth. Would you rather everyone made less as long as income inequality was reduced?Income and economic growth are not the same thing; very especially to the 99%.Income inequality can be reduced by lowering the income for those at the top by more than it's lowered for those at the bottom. Do you think that would be a good thing?He's making two great points:* None of the above..
Seriously, if that is what the current leaves us I will be looking for yet another 3rd party candidate to vote for.
Trump is just a blow hard.. Great to get the country riled up, but not someone that should be running the country.
Bernie .. Says the right things to get people to lineup behind him.. But this quote is enough to turn me away from him:
"If we have to break it to "fix it" so be it"He doesn’t flinch over returning to the 90 percent personal income tax rates of the 1950s for top earners. And if reducing income inequality reduces economic growth, he says, that’s fine. “You don’t necessarily need a choice of 23 underarm spray deodorants,” he said, “when children are hungry in this country.”
-You can't trade freedom for comfort. If the system is set up to reward the "elite" while the rest fight for a quickly fading middle class--freedom is a perfect word to use. Things will be very uncomfortable when we address income inequality. But we need to address it.
-The "economic growth" isn't benefiting America; it's benefiting the American elite.
Corporatism needs to die. I am open to short-term setbacks to see that happen, personally.
To answer your question--I don't know. I don't know what would happen to the economy if everyone made less, with a gradual descrease (in paycut) down the ladder. I would assume the economy would correct over time, with the biggest initial hit coming in international trade.
I don't subscribe to the notion that we need to let corporate socialism continue to grow, for the health of the economy, however.
That's not a complete, nor simple, question. For me at least. What does "less" mean? How long do people go with "less" for? I am for a non-corporatist system, in which the needs of every American are valued equally. I'd be willing to risk comforts and stability to pursue it. I'm not sure if that answers your question or not.humpback said:It's pretty simple- are you in the camp of reducing income inequality even if it meant less for everyone?Concept Coop said:That seems like an odd question. On the surface, I don't really see the value in it. My apologies if I am simply missing it.humpback said:I didn't say anything about economic growth. Would you rather everyone made less as long as income inequality was reduced?Concept Coop said:Income and economic growth are not the same thing; very especially to the 99%.humpback said:Income inequality can be reduced by lowering the income for those at the top by more than it's lowered for those at the bottom. Do you think that would be a good thing?Concept Coop said:He's making two great points:snogger said:* None of the above..
Seriously, if that is what the current leaves us I will be looking for yet another 3rd party candidate to vote for.
Trump is just a blow hard.. Great to get the country riled up, but not someone that should be running the country.
Bernie .. Says the right things to get people to lineup behind him.. But this quote is enough to turn me away from him:
"If we have to break it to "fix it" so be it"He doesn’t flinch over returning to the 90 percent personal income tax rates of the 1950s for top earners. And if reducing income inequality reduces economic growth, he says, that’s fine. “You don’t necessarily need a choice of 23 underarm spray deodorants,” he said, “when children are hungry in this country.”
-You can't trade freedom for comfort. If the system is set up to reward the "elite" while the rest fight for a quickly fading middle class--freedom is a perfect word to use. Things will be very uncomfortable when we address income inequality. But we need to address it.
-The "economic growth" isn't benefiting America; it's benefiting the American elite.
Corporatism needs to die. I am open to short-term setbacks to see that happen, personally.
To answer your question--I don't know. I don't know what would happen to the economy if everyone made less, with a gradual descrease (in paycut) down the ladder. I would assume the economy would correct over time, with the biggest initial hit coming in international trade.
I don't subscribe to the notion that we need to let corporate socialism continue to grow, for the health of the economy, however.
What do you mean by more controlled?I am not naive enough to think that big changes would come without short-term hardships--including loss of jobs/wages. But if it moved us towards a more controlled, more value based, less reliant on debt economy, I think it's the duty of us all to take those steps.
Re: the bolded above:AhrnCityPahnder said:I am convinced that all the money continuing to funnel to the very top is not a sustainable path. re: Sanders -- am I convinced what Sanders says will work? No. Do I think it sounds better than any other action (or inaction) that I've heard suggested as a solution? Yes.dickey moe said:Are you convinced that any proposals Trump or Sanders are proposing would improve the plight of the middle class?AhrnCityPahnder said:snogger are you at all concerned about the fact that the middle class is shrinking ?
If you are, how do we fix that?
And I'm not paying any attention to Trump. He's a clown and a sideshow. So i don't know what he's suggesting.
While we're at it, what do you think will help the middle class?
It's important because I feel strongly that it's a major part of the problem. If I had the hindsight to know it would hurt all involved--of course I wouldn't be an advocate.Just trying to see how important the income inequality part is. Would you prefer lower incomes for all groups if it meant they were more equal?
What problem? Do you believe that the reason people are poor is because other people make too much money?It's important because I feel strongly that it's a major part of the problem. If I had the hindsight to know it would hurt all involved--of course I wouldn't be an advocate.Just trying to see how important the income inequality part is. Would you prefer lower incomes for all groups if it meant they were more equal?
Agreed....snogger said:* None of the above..
Seriously, if that is what the current leaves us I will be looking for yet another 3rd party candidate to vote for.
Trump is just a blow hard.. Great to get the country riled up, but not someone that should be running the country.
Bernie .. Says the right things to get people to lineup behind him.. But this quote is enough to turn me away from him:
"If we have to break it to "fix it" so be it"He doesn’t flinch over returning to the 90 percent personal income tax rates of the 1950s for top earners. And if reducing income inequality reduces economic growth, he says, that’s fine. “You don’t necessarily need a choice of 23 underarm spray deodorants,” he said, “when children are hungry in this country.”
I believe a reason people are poor is because the system is tailored to make the rich richer, often at the expense of the rest of the population.What problem? Do you believe that the reason people are poor is because other people make too much money?It's important because I feel strongly that it's a major part of the problem. If I had the hindsight to know it would hurt all involved--of course I wouldn't be an advocate.Just trying to see how important the income inequality part is. Would you prefer lower incomes for all groups if it meant they were more equal?
Good to know about the 2nd part- I'm not sure others (Bernie?) would agree.
Now this is an odd rant...I believe a reason people are poor is because the system is tailored to make the rich richer, often at the expense of the rest of the population.What problem? Do you believe that the reason people are poor is because other people make too much money?It's important because I feel strongly that it's a major part of the problem. If I had the hindsight to know it would hurt all involved--of course I wouldn't be an advocate.Just trying to see how important the income inequality part is. Would you prefer lower incomes for all groups if it meant they were more equal?
Good to know about the 2nd part- I'm not sure others (Bernie?) would agree.
In general, people are poor because we have adopted a form of society that can deem people as worthless--especially the mentally ill--including veterans with undertreated PTSD,
And to your second point-that's an odd thing to question. Not everyone you disagree with is evil.
What's odd is that some of you think the problems that are caused by the State can be fixed by electing different statists to run the State.Now this is an odd rant...I believe a reason people are poor is because the system is tailored to make the rich richer, often at the expense of the rest of the population.What problem? Do you believe that the reason people are poor is because other people make too much money?It's important because I feel strongly that it's a major part of the problem. If I had the hindsight to know it would hurt all involved--of course I wouldn't be an advocate.Just trying to see how important the income inequality part is. Would you prefer lower incomes for all groups if it meant they were more equal?
Good to know about the 2nd part- I'm not sure others (Bernie?) would agree.
In general, people are poor because we have adopted a form of society that can deem people as worthless--especially the mentally ill--including veterans with undertreated PTSD,
And to your second point-that's an odd thing to question. Not everyone you disagree with is evil.
But this board, as demonstrated many times by mere assertion and self-reporting, clearly leans to the right!avoiding injuries said:You could replace trump with a different conservative and bernie with a different liberal and the poll results would be about the same.