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Donald Trump vs Bernie Sanders (1 Viewer)

If you HAD to choose between these two guys, which one?

  • Donald Trump

    Votes: 40 33.3%
  • Bernie Sanders

    Votes: 80 66.7%

  • Total voters
    120
I voted Sanders but if Stewart was still around, I would've voted The Donald for pure entertainment value which should be a large factor for anyone voting for president.

 
Comparing someone who has spent his life in public service being consistent and principled the entire time to the trump sideshow is probably a smart tactic for a Clinton fan.

 
You could replace trump with a different conservative and bernie with a different liberal and the poll results would be about the same.

 
* None of the above..

Seriously, if that is what the current :tfp: leaves us I will be looking for yet another 3rd party candidate to vote for.

Trump is just a blow hard.. Great to get the country riled up, but not someone that should be running the country.

Bernie .. Says the right things to get people to lineup behind him.. But this quote is enough to turn me away from him:

He doesn’t flinch over returning to the 90 percent personal income tax rates of the 1950s for top earners. And if reducing income inequality reduces economic growth, he says, that’s fine. “You don’t necessarily need a choice of 23 underarm spray deodorants,” he said, “when children are hungry in this country.”
"If we have to break it to "fix it" so be it" :oldunsure:

 
snogger are you at all concerned about the fact that the middle class is shrinking ?

If you are, how do we fix that?
:shrug: There is no "One Answer".. But I know for sure I wouldn't say "If the economy needs to stop growing, and people need to lose jobs in order to fix it, then so be it".

I'd start with getting rid of most of the IRS( I know, those are jobs so a contradiction to my statement above but.. less government is better IMO) and 100% of the current Tax code, switch to the Fair Tax..

I believe at last count we are close to 74,000 pages in the Current tax code.. :eek:

Both Bernie and Hilary want to ADD to that number.. Which in turn only helps the rich as they are the only ones that can afford to hire Tax Attorney's who can dig through all those pages to find the holes to take advantage of..

 
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* None of the above..

Seriously, if that is what the current :tfp: leaves us I will be looking for yet another 3rd party candidate to vote for.

Trump is just a blow hard.. Great to get the country riled up, but not someone that should be running the country.

Bernie .. Says the right things to get people to lineup behind him.. But this quote is enough to turn me away from him:

He doesn’t flinch over returning to the 90 percent personal income tax rates of the 1950s for top earners. And if reducing income inequality reduces economic growth, he says, that’s fine. “You don’t necessarily need a choice of 23 underarm spray deodorants,” he said, “when children are hungry in this country.”
"If we have to break it to "fix it" so be it" :oldunsure:
He's making two great points:

-You can't trade freedom for comfort. If the system is set up to reward the "elite" while the rest fight for a quickly fading middle class--freedom is a perfect word to use. Things will be very uncomfortable when we address income inequality. But we need to address it.

-The "economic growth" isn't benefiting America; it's benefiting the American elite.

 
snogger are you at all concerned about the fact that the middle class is shrinking ?

If you are, how do we fix that?
Are you convinced that any proposals Trump or Sanders are proposing would improve the plight of the middle class?
I am convinced that all the money continuing to funnel to the very top is not a sustainable path. re: Sanders -- am I convinced what Sanders says will work? No. Do I think it sounds better than any other action (or inaction) that I've heard suggested as a solution? Yes.

And I'm not paying any attention to Trump. He's a clown and a sideshow. So i don't know what he's suggesting.

While we're at it, what do you think will help the middle class?

 
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snogger are you at all concerned about the fact that the middle class is shrinking ?

If you are, how do we fix that?
:shrug: There is no "One Answer".. But I know for sure I wouldn't say "If the economy needs to stop growing, and people need to lose jobs in order to fix it, then so be it".

I'd start with getting rid of most of the IRS( I know, those are jobs so a contradiction to my statement above but.. less government is better IMO) and 100% of the current Tax code, switch to the Fair Tax..

I believe at last count we are close to 74,000 pages in the Current tax code.. :eek:

Both Bernie and Hilary want to ADD to that number.. Which in turn only helps the rich as they are the only ones that can afford to hire Tax Attorney's who can dig through all those pages to find the holes to take advantage of..
If I could snap my fingers for a simplified tax code, I'd do it in a heartbeat. I don't think we're ever going to see that happen, though.


If you have a forest fire burning and your answer is "if we could just build a fan big enough to blow a giant wave from the ocean over here to extinguish this thing...." -- You may be right in your goal could work as a solution, but I'm also for calling out firefighting crews that use the existing infrastructure we have to keep the fire under control until that giant fan is designed, funded, powered, and functional.
 
* None of the above..

Seriously, if that is what the current :tfp: leaves us I will be looking for yet another 3rd party candidate to vote for.

Trump is just a blow hard.. Great to get the country riled up, but not someone that should be running the country.

Bernie .. Says the right things to get people to lineup behind him.. But this quote is enough to turn me away from him:

He doesn’t flinch over returning to the 90 percent personal income tax rates of the 1950s for top earners. And if reducing income inequality reduces economic growth, he says, that’s fine. “You don’t necessarily need a choice of 23 underarm spray deodorants,” he said, “when children are hungry in this country.”
"If we have to break it to "fix it" so be it" :oldunsure:
He's making two great points:

-You can't trade freedom for comfort. If the system is set up to reward the "elite" while the rest fight for a quickly fading middle class--freedom is a perfect word to use. Things will be very uncomfortable when we address income inequality. But we need to address it.

-The "economic growth" isn't benefiting America; it's benefiting the American elite.
Income inequality can be reduced by lowering the income for those at the top by more than it's lowered for those at the bottom. Do you think that would be a good thing?

 
If given the opportunity, I'll probably vote for Sanders regardless of who he's up against.

Trump is a hate filled, idiotic, attention mongering clown who merits no consideration.

 
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* None of the above..

Seriously, if that is what the current :tfp: leaves us I will be looking for yet another 3rd party candidate to vote for.

Trump is just a blow hard.. Great to get the country riled up, but not someone that should be running the country.

Bernie .. Says the right things to get people to lineup behind him.. But this quote is enough to turn me away from him:

He doesn’t flinch over returning to the 90 percent personal income tax rates of the 1950s for top earners. And if reducing income inequality reduces economic growth, he says, that’s fine. “You don’t necessarily need a choice of 23 underarm spray deodorants,” he said, “when children are hungry in this country.”
"If we have to break it to "fix it" so be it" :oldunsure:
He's making two great points:

-You can't trade freedom for comfort. If the system is set up to reward the "elite" while the rest fight for a quickly fading middle class--freedom is a perfect word to use. Things will be very uncomfortable when we address income inequality. But we need to address it.

-The "economic growth" isn't benefiting America; it's benefiting the American elite.
Income inequality can be reduced by lowering the income for those at the top by more than it's lowered for those at the bottom. Do you think that would be a good thing?
Income and economic growth are not the same thing; very especially to the 99%.

Corporatism needs to die. I am open to short-term setbacks to see that happen, personally.

 
snogger are you at all concerned about the fact that the middle class is shrinking ?

If you are, how do we fix that?
:shrug: There is no "One Answer".. But I know for sure I wouldn't say "If the economy needs to stop growing, and people need to lose jobs in order to fix it, then so be it".

I'd start with getting rid of most of the IRS( I know, those are jobs so a contradiction to my statement above but.. less government is better IMO) and 100% of the current Tax code, switch to the Fair Tax..

I believe at last count we are close to 74,000 pages in the Current tax code.. :eek:

Both Bernie and Hilary want to ADD to that number.. Which in turn only helps the rich as they are the only ones that can afford to hire Tax Attorney's who can dig through all those pages to find the holes to take advantage of..
If I could snap my fingers for a simplified tax code, I'd do it in a heartbeat. I don't think we're ever going to see that happen, though.


If you have a forest fire burning and your answer is "if we could just build a fan big enough to blow a giant wave from the ocean over here to extinguish this thing...." -- You may be right in your goal could work as a solution, but I'm also for calling out firefighting crews that use the existing infrastructure we have to keep the fire under control until that giant fan is designed, funded, powered, and functional.
The FairTax is a "scary" idea and as I've have mentioned many times I'm at about 70/30 in support... But that 30% uncertainty is enough to hold off until it gets to committee and gets fully "vetted"..

I've also mentioned that there was a plan devised back in 2010 that, IMO, was something that could be implemented tomorrow to help all..

In short:

Eliminate all income tax expenditures, dedicate a portion of the additional revenue to deficit reduction, and use the remaining revenue to lower rates and add back necessary expenditures and credits.

Current Rates *2010

10% - 15% Bottom rate

25% - 28% Middle rate

33% - 35% Top rate

35% - Corporate Rate

Their plans...

Eliminate all Tax Expenditures* :)

8% - Bottom Rate

14% - Middle Rate

23% - Top Rate

26% - Corporate Rate

OR..

Keep Child Tax Credit + EITC*

9%

15%

24%

26%

Simplify ... Seems good to me :popcorn:

 
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* None of the above..

Seriously, if that is what the current :tfp: leaves us I will be looking for yet another 3rd party candidate to vote for.

Trump is just a blow hard.. Great to get the country riled up, but not someone that should be running the country.

Bernie .. Says the right things to get people to lineup behind him.. But this quote is enough to turn me away from him:

He doesn’t flinch over returning to the 90 percent personal income tax rates of the 1950s for top earners. And if reducing income inequality reduces economic growth, he says, that’s fine. “You don’t necessarily need a choice of 23 underarm spray deodorants,” he said, “when children are hungry in this country.”
"If we have to break it to "fix it" so be it" :oldunsure:
He's making two great points:

-You can't trade freedom for comfort. If the system is set up to reward the "elite" while the rest fight for a quickly fading middle class--freedom is a perfect word to use. Things will be very uncomfortable when we address income inequality. But we need to address it.

-The "economic growth" isn't benefiting America; it's benefiting the American elite.
Income inequality can be reduced by lowering the income for those at the top by more than it's lowered for those at the bottom. Do you think that would be a good thing?
Income and economic growth are not the same thing; very especially to the 99%.

Corporatism needs to die. I am open to short-term setbacks to see that happen, personally.
I didn't say anything about economic growth. Would you rather everyone made less as long as income inequality was reduced?

 
* None of the above..

Seriously, if that is what the current :tfp: leaves us I will be looking for yet another 3rd party candidate to vote for.

Trump is just a blow hard.. Great to get the country riled up, but not someone that should be running the country.

Bernie .. Says the right things to get people to lineup behind him.. But this quote is enough to turn me away from him:

He doesn’t flinch over returning to the 90 percent personal income tax rates of the 1950s for top earners. And if reducing income inequality reduces economic growth, he says, that’s fine. “You don’t necessarily need a choice of 23 underarm spray deodorants,” he said, “when children are hungry in this country.”
"If we have to break it to "fix it" so be it" :oldunsure:
He's making two great points:

-You can't trade freedom for comfort. If the system is set up to reward the "elite" while the rest fight for a quickly fading middle class--freedom is a perfect word to use. Things will be very uncomfortable when we address income inequality. But we need to address it.

-The "economic growth" isn't benefiting America; it's benefiting the American elite.
Income inequality can be reduced by lowering the income for those at the top by more than it's lowered for those at the bottom. Do you think that would be a good thing?
Income and economic growth are not the same thing; very especially to the 99%.

Corporatism needs to die. I am open to short-term setbacks to see that happen, personally.
I didn't say anything about economic growth. Would you rather everyone made less as long as income inequality was reduced?
That seems like an odd question. On the surface, I don't really see the value in it. My apologies if I am simply missing it.

To answer your question--I don't know. I don't know what would happen to the economy if everyone made less, with a gradual descrease (in paycut) down the ladder. I would assume the economy would correct over time, with the biggest initial hit coming in international trade.

I don't subscribe to the notion that we need to let corporate socialism continue to grow, for the health of the economy, however.

 
snogger are you at all concerned about the fact that the middle class is shrinking ?

If you are, how do we fix that?
Are you convinced that any proposals Trump or Sanders are proposing would improve the plight of the middle class?
I am convinced that all the money continuing to funnel to the very top is not a sustainable path. re: Sanders -- am I convinced what Sanders says will work? No. Do I think it sounds better than any other action (or inaction) that I've heard suggested as a solution? Yes.





And I'm not paying any attention to Trump. He's a clown and a sideshow. So i don't know what he's suggesting.





While we're at it, what do you think will help the middle class?
I'm not convinced that more crony capitalism (Trump) or more government/Democratic socialism (Sanders) will help the middle class. I think flattening the tax code and its perverse incentives (as currently constructed) would help. Deregulation in certain capacities would help - make it easier for small business startups to have a chance. Government intervention in housing, medicine, and higher education have led to cost increases for these sectors that have vastly exceeded inflation and greatly distorted their markets.Trump and Sanders seem to me to be advocates for the government choosing winners and losers. I'd prefer for freer markets to determine winners and losers.

 
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snogger are you at all concerned about the fact that the middle class is shrinking ?

If you are, how do we fix that?
Are you convinced that any proposals Trump or Sanders are proposing would improve the plight of the middle class?
I am convinced that all the money continuing to funnel to the very top is not a sustainable path. re: Sanders -- am I convinced what Sanders says will work? No. Do I think it sounds better than any other action (or inaction) that I've heard suggested as a solution? Yes.





And I'm not paying any attention to Trump. He's a clown and a sideshow. So i don't know what he's suggesting.





While we're at it, what do you think will help the middle class?
I'm not convinced that more crony capitalism (Trump) or more government/Democratic socialism (Sanders) will help the middle class. I think flattening the tax code and its perverse incentives (as currently can constructed) would help. Deregulation in certain capacities would help - make it easier for small business startups to have a chance. Government intervention in housing, medicine, and higher education have led to cost increases for these sectors that have vastly exceeded inflation and greatly distorted their markets.Trump and Sanders seem to me to be advocates for the government choosing winners and losers. I'd prefer for freer markets to determine winners and losers.
On one level, I very much agree with this. It's the reason why I'm not completely sold on Bernie, despite approving of much of his radical ideas; he trusts the government more than I do. I just worry that the free market has been bought and paid for already. 6 corporations control the media and their votes decide elections. I vote with my dollar as much as I can--but as each dollar I make is less valuable, the less it is likely it is to matter.

 
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Trump and Sanders seem to me to be advocates for the government choosing winners and losers. I'd prefer for freer markets to determine winners and losers.
I would, too. If you find anyway we can have a free market in the USA, let me know. Given our current system, I'll take a middle class advocate within the govt.

 
* None of the above..

Seriously, if that is what the current :tfp: leaves us I will be looking for yet another 3rd party candidate to vote for.

Trump is just a blow hard.. Great to get the country riled up, but not someone that should be running the country.

Bernie .. Says the right things to get people to lineup behind him.. But this quote is enough to turn me away from him:

He doesn’t flinch over returning to the 90 percent personal income tax rates of the 1950s for top earners. And if reducing income inequality reduces economic growth, he says, that’s fine. “You don’t necessarily need a choice of 23 underarm spray deodorants,” he said, “when children are hungry in this country.”
"If we have to break it to "fix it" so be it" :oldunsure:
He's making two great points:

-You can't trade freedom for comfort. If the system is set up to reward the "elite" while the rest fight for a quickly fading middle class--freedom is a perfect word to use. Things will be very uncomfortable when we address income inequality. But we need to address it.

-The "economic growth" isn't benefiting America; it's benefiting the American elite.
Income inequality can be reduced by lowering the income for those at the top by more than it's lowered for those at the bottom. Do you think that would be a good thing?
Income and economic growth are not the same thing; very especially to the 99%.

Corporatism needs to die. I am open to short-term setbacks to see that happen, personally.
I didn't say anything about economic growth. Would you rather everyone made less as long as income inequality was reduced?
That seems like an odd question. On the surface, I don't really see the value in it. My apologies if I am simply missing it.

To answer your question--I don't know. I don't know what would happen to the economy if everyone made less, with a gradual descrease (in paycut) down the ladder. I would assume the economy would correct over time, with the biggest initial hit coming in international trade.

I don't subscribe to the notion that we need to let corporate socialism continue to grow, for the health of the economy, however.
It's pretty simple- are you in the camp of reducing income inequality even if it meant less for everyone?

 
humpback said:
Concept Coop said:
humpback said:
Concept Coop said:
humpback said:
Concept Coop said:
snogger said:
* None of the above..

Seriously, if that is what the current :tfp: leaves us I will be looking for yet another 3rd party candidate to vote for.

Trump is just a blow hard.. Great to get the country riled up, but not someone that should be running the country.

Bernie .. Says the right things to get people to lineup behind him.. But this quote is enough to turn me away from him:

He doesn’t flinch over returning to the 90 percent personal income tax rates of the 1950s for top earners. And if reducing income inequality reduces economic growth, he says, that’s fine. “You don’t necessarily need a choice of 23 underarm spray deodorants,” he said, “when children are hungry in this country.”
"If we have to break it to "fix it" so be it" :oldunsure:
He's making two great points:

-You can't trade freedom for comfort. If the system is set up to reward the "elite" while the rest fight for a quickly fading middle class--freedom is a perfect word to use. Things will be very uncomfortable when we address income inequality. But we need to address it.

-The "economic growth" isn't benefiting America; it's benefiting the American elite.
Income inequality can be reduced by lowering the income for those at the top by more than it's lowered for those at the bottom. Do you think that would be a good thing?
Income and economic growth are not the same thing; very especially to the 99%.

Corporatism needs to die. I am open to short-term setbacks to see that happen, personally.
I didn't say anything about economic growth. Would you rather everyone made less as long as income inequality was reduced?
That seems like an odd question. On the surface, I don't really see the value in it. My apologies if I am simply missing it.

To answer your question--I don't know. I don't know what would happen to the economy if everyone made less, with a gradual descrease (in paycut) down the ladder. I would assume the economy would correct over time, with the biggest initial hit coming in international trade.

I don't subscribe to the notion that we need to let corporate socialism continue to grow, for the health of the economy, however.
It's pretty simple- are you in the camp of reducing income inequality even if it meant less for everyone?
That's not a complete, nor simple, question. For me at least. What does "less" mean? How long do people go with "less" for? I am for a non-corporatist system, in which the needs of every American are valued equally. I'd be willing to risk comforts and stability to pursue it. I'm not sure if that answers your question or not.

Perhaps if you can tell me why you're asking the question, I can better understand it.

 
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I am not naive enough to think that big changes would come without short-term hardships--including loss of jobs/wages. But if it moved us towards a more controlled, more value based, less reliant on debt economy, I think it's the duty of us all to take those steps.

 
I am not naive enough to think that big changes would come without short-term hardships--including loss of jobs/wages. But if it moved us towards a more controlled, more value based, less reliant on debt economy, I think it's the duty of us all to take those steps.
What do you mean by more controlled?
 
Just trying to see how important the income inequality part is. Would you prefer lower incomes for all groups if it meant they were more equal?

 
AhrnCityPahnder said:
dickey moe said:
AhrnCityPahnder said:
snogger are you at all concerned about the fact that the middle class is shrinking ?

If you are, how do we fix that?
Are you convinced that any proposals Trump or Sanders are proposing would improve the plight of the middle class?
I am convinced that all the money continuing to funnel to the very top is not a sustainable path. re: Sanders -- am I convinced what Sanders says will work? No. Do I think it sounds better than any other action (or inaction) that I've heard suggested as a solution? Yes.

And I'm not paying any attention to Trump. He's a clown and a sideshow. So i don't know what he's suggesting.

While we're at it, what do you think will help the middle class?
Re: the bolded above:

Our current state of affairs reminds me of the Flowbee haircutting device, where all the money gets sucked up and we are left with a bad hair cut.

 
Are there any candidates out there that place a high priority on funding space exploration with the ultimate aim of spreading life as we know it throughout the solar system? I'd vote for that guy.

 
Just trying to see how important the income inequality part is. Would you prefer lower incomes for all groups if it meant they were more equal?
It's important because I feel strongly that it's a major part of the problem. If I had the hindsight to know it would hurt all involved--of course I wouldn't be an advocate.

 
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Trump reminds me of our country's forefathers much more than any candidate on the Democratic side. We don't need social progress. We have more resources than any other country. How are we not the richest?

I think a healthy economy will cure most social issues. If everyone had money and everything was cheap.

 
Trump vs Sanders would be an amazing matchup. It almost writes itself. I meet enough people on a daily basis that hate Hilary for lying and at least respects Trump for being truthful.

Truth hurts sometimes.

 
Just trying to see how important the income inequality part is. Would you prefer lower incomes for all groups if it meant they were more equal?
It's important because I feel strongly that it's a major part of the problem. If I had the hindsight to know it would hurt all involved--of course I wouldn't be an advocate.
What problem? Do you believe that the reason people are poor is because other people make too much money?

Good to know about the 2nd part- I'm not sure others (Bernie?) would agree.

 
snogger said:
* None of the above..

Seriously, if that is what the current :tfp: leaves us I will be looking for yet another 3rd party candidate to vote for.

Trump is just a blow hard.. Great to get the country riled up, but not someone that should be running the country.

Bernie .. Says the right things to get people to lineup behind him.. But this quote is enough to turn me away from him:

He doesn’t flinch over returning to the 90 percent personal income tax rates of the 1950s for top earners. And if reducing income inequality reduces economic growth, he says, that’s fine. “You don’t necessarily need a choice of 23 underarm spray deodorants,” he said, “when children are hungry in this country.”
"If we have to break it to "fix it" so be it" :oldunsure:
Agreed....

 
Just trying to see how important the income inequality part is. Would you prefer lower incomes for all groups if it meant they were more equal?
It's important because I feel strongly that it's a major part of the problem. If I had the hindsight to know it would hurt all involved--of course I wouldn't be an advocate.
What problem? Do you believe that the reason people are poor is because other people make too much money?

Good to know about the 2nd part- I'm not sure others (Bernie?) would agree.
I believe a reason people are poor is because the system is tailored to make the rich richer, often at the expense of the rest of the population.

In general, people are poor because we have adopted a form of society that can deem people as worthless--especially the mentally ill--including veterans with undertreated PTSD,

And to your second point-that's an odd thing to question. Not everyone you disagree with is evil.

 
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Just trying to see how important the income inequality part is. Would you prefer lower incomes for all groups if it meant they were more equal?
It's important because I feel strongly that it's a major part of the problem. If I had the hindsight to know it would hurt all involved--of course I wouldn't be an advocate.
What problem? Do you believe that the reason people are poor is because other people make too much money?

Good to know about the 2nd part- I'm not sure others (Bernie?) would agree.
I believe a reason people are poor is because the system is tailored to make the rich richer, often at the expense of the rest of the population.

In general, people are poor because we have adopted a form of society that can deem people as worthless--especially the mentally ill--including veterans with undertreated PTSD,

And to your second point-that's an odd thing to question. Not everyone you disagree with is evil.
Now this is an odd rant...

 
Just trying to see how important the income inequality part is. Would you prefer lower incomes for all groups if it meant they were more equal?
It's important because I feel strongly that it's a major part of the problem. If I had the hindsight to know it would hurt all involved--of course I wouldn't be an advocate.
What problem? Do you believe that the reason people are poor is because other people make too much money?

Good to know about the 2nd part- I'm not sure others (Bernie?) would agree.
I believe a reason people are poor is because the system is tailored to make the rich richer, often at the expense of the rest of the population.

In general, people are poor because we have adopted a form of society that can deem people as worthless--especially the mentally ill--including veterans with undertreated PTSD,

And to your second point-that's an odd thing to question. Not everyone you disagree with is evil.
Now this is an odd rant...
What's odd is that some of you think the problems that are caused by the State can be fixed by electing different statists to run the State.

 
avoiding injuries said:
You could replace trump with a different conservative and bernie with a different liberal and the poll results would be about the same.
But this board, as demonstrated many times by mere assertion and self-reporting, clearly leans to the right!

It's true!

And look over there -- it's Bambi!

 

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