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Great Defense, Mediocre QB (1 Viewer)

dhockster

dhockster

Footballguy
At least three teams this year look to have potentially great defenses, but have mediocre QB's: Buffalo, Houston, and the NY Jets.

Which of these three do you think finishes with the best record this year? I am going to go with Houston because I think Hoyers going to be better than most people think as he is back in an offense he should know very well.

 
If its Houston its mainly because the division is so weak all things considered. Indy will be good, but the other two are still going through growing pains. Houston's defense looks good, but Hopkins is the only playmaker on offense. An offense that really relies on a running game and I don't think they will have a very good one this year. I think the defense will keep Houston around .500.

 
jsharlan said:
If its Houston its mainly because the division is so weak all things considered. Indy will be good, but the other two are still going through growing pains. Houston's defense looks good, but Hopkins is the only playmaker on offense. An offense that really relies on a running game and I don't think they will have a very good one this year. I think the defense will keep Houston around .500.
Click to expand...
I am more optimistic than that because I think Arian is not going to miss as much time as initially thought. Also, keep in mind that their defense was the 3rd best defense in the league over the last 5 games. Yes, 3 of those games were against Tennessee and Jacksonville, but they also shut down Andrew Luck on the road and shut down Joe Flacco at home. If Ryan Fitzpatrick does not get hurt in the Indy game, the Texans would have won that game and won the division.

The defense is now in its second year under Romeo Crennel, so they should be much more familiar with the defense. To last years defense they added: Vince Wilfork, who should help stuff the run game. Brian Cushing, who now appears to be at full health this year after being a step slower last year. Kevin Johnson, who looks to be a very good cover corner. And finally, any thing they get out of Jadevon Clowney will be a bonus. If he actually produces pressure opposite Watt, that may force teams to play Watt more honest, and he should have another dominating year.

 
Pots said:
FUBAR said:
dhockster said:
FUBAR said:
dhockster said:
bumpman said:
I would put the Browns in here as well.
Click to expand...
Fair enough. So of the Bills, Texans, Jets, Rams, and Browns, which team has the best season?
Click to expand...
If we're adding the Browns, how do you not add the Cardinals? the Ravens?
Click to expand...
Palmer and Flacco are better than mediocre.
Click to expand...
We need to define mediocre.
Click to expand...
Yeah, how are Fitz, Hoyer, and T-Mobile mediocre?
Click to expand...
Fitz: playing for his sixth team, 33-55 career record as a starter, benched last season for Ryan Mallett

Hoyer: playing for his fourth team, 76.5 career QB rating, benched last season for Johnny Manziel

Taylor: More an unknown than mediocre, but no starts in 4 years in the league and beat out mediocre QB's Cassel and Manuel to start for the Bills

 
FUBAR said:
dhockster said:
FUBAR said:
dhockster said:
bumpman said:
I would put the Browns in here as well.
Click to expand...
Fair enough. So of the Bills, Texans, Jets, Rams, and Browns, which team has the best season?
Click to expand...
If we're adding the Browns, how do you not add the Cardinals? the Ravens?
Click to expand...
Palmer and Flacco are better than mediocre.
Click to expand...
We need to define mediocre.
Click to expand...
Flacco: 72-40 record as a starter, 10-5 in the playoffs, led his team to a SB victory

Palmer: Led league in TD's in 2005, 16-6 record under a good offensive coach last two years. A few down years but those were either in Cincinnati or the dumpster fire that is the Oakland Raiders.

 
dhockster said:
Pots said:
FUBAR said:
dhockster said:
FUBAR said:
dhockster said:
bumpman said:
I would put the Browns in here as well.
Click to expand...
Fair enough. So of the Bills, Texans, Jets, Rams, and Browns, which team has the best season?
Click to expand...
If we're adding the Browns, how do you not add the Cardinals? the Ravens?
Click to expand...
Palmer and Flacco are better than mediocre.
Click to expand...
We need to define mediocre.
Click to expand...
Yeah, how are Fitz, Hoyer, and T-Mobile mediocre?
Click to expand...
Fitz: playing for his sixth team, 33-55 career record as a starter, benched last season for Ryan Mallett

Hoyer: playing for his fourth team, 76.5 career QB rating, benched last season for Johnny Manziel

Taylor: More an unknown than mediocre, but no starts in 4 years in the league and beat out mediocre QB's Cassel and Manuel to start for the Bills
Click to expand...
Seems you're calling QBs who shouldn't be starting "mediocre". That's a fine definition but some of us would use the term to mean average or adequate. I don't know if any of the QBs you just mentioned would be considered adequate.

 
dhockster said:
FUBAR said:
dhockster said:
FUBAR said:
dhockster said:
bumpman said:
I would put the Browns in here as well.
Click to expand...
Fair enough. So of the Bills, Texans, Jets, Rams, and Browns, which team has the best season?
Click to expand...
If we're adding the Browns, how do you not add the Cardinals? the Ravens?
Click to expand...
Palmer and Flacco are better than mediocre.
Click to expand...
We need to define mediocre.
Click to expand...
Flacco: 72-40 record as a starter, 10-5 in the playoffs, led his team to a SB victory

Palmer: Led league in TD's in 2005, 16-6 record under a good offensive coach last two years. A few down years but those were either in Cincinnati or the dumpster fire that is the Oakland Raiders.
Click to expand...
It's a bad sign when you reach for stats a decade old.Also, record doesn't really help your argument when their defenses were great.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
chad in Indy said:
FUBAR said:
bumpman said:
I would put the Browns in here as well.
Click to expand...
great defense?
Click to expand...
Browns do have a great defense (when healthy). The Browns struggled last year when Taylor and Dansby went down. This year they made some good FA acquisitions and drafted Danny Shelton. Only thing that will hold them back is the bad field position they inherit from their stagnant offense.
Click to expand...
They were bottom 10 last year. They could be good, but great is a stretch.

 
FUBAR said:
chad in Indy said:
FUBAR said:
bumpman said:
I would put the Browns in here as well.
Click to expand...
great defense?
Click to expand...
Browns do have a great defense (when healthy). The Browns struggled last year when Taylor and Dansby went down. This year they made some good FA acquisitions and drafted Danny Shelton. Only thing that will hold them back is the bad field position they inherit from their stagnant offense.
Click to expand...
They were bottom 10 last year. They could be good, but great is a stretch.
Click to expand...
Again. Look at the splits when Taylor and Dansby were active v. out w/ injury. Night and day. They struggled severely against the run when those two were out. They were great against the pass (2nd in INTs). This all is on the assumption of health, due to lack of depth

 
Last edited by a moderator:
FUBAR said:
dhockster said:
FUBAR said:
dhockster said:
FUBAR said:
dhockster said:
bumpman said:
I would put the Browns in here as well.
Click to expand...
Fair enough. So of the Bills, Texans, Jets, Rams, and Browns, which team has the best season?
Click to expand...
If we're adding the Browns, how do you not add the Cardinals? the Ravens?
Click to expand...
Palmer and Flacco are better than mediocre.
Click to expand...
We need to define mediocre.
Click to expand...
Flacco: 72-40 record as a starter, 10-5 in the playoffs, led his team to a SB victory

Palmer: Led league in TD's in 2005, 16-6 record under a good offensive coach last two years. A few down years but those were either in Cincinnati or the dumpster fire that is the Oakland Raiders.
Click to expand...
It's a bad sign when you reach for stats a decade old.Also, record doesn't really help your argument when their defenses were great.
Click to expand...
I concede that mediocre was a poor choice of words because it has too broad a meaning. I should have used below average QB's.

And the bolded is really the point of my post: Which defenses are good enough to overcome their deficiencies at QB? I think the fact that Arizona went 10-6 and 6-0 the last two years with Palmer as QB, indicates that Palmer is not a liability at QB and the record reflects that. The same holds true for Flacco. Palmer and Flacco do enough in their offenses that their high level defenses are able to help them win a majority of their games.

 
chad in Indy said:
FUBAR said:
chad in Indy said:
FUBAR said:
bumpman said:
I would put the Browns in here as well.
Click to expand...
great defense?
Click to expand...
Browns do have a great defense (when healthy). The Browns struggled last year when Taylor and Dansby went down. This year they made some good FA acquisitions and drafted Danny Shelton. Only thing that will hold them back is the bad field position they inherit from their stagnant offense.
Click to expand...
They were bottom 10 last year. They could be good, but great is a stretch.
Click to expand...
Again. Look at the splits when Taylor and Dansby were active v. out w/ injury. Night and day. They struggled severely against the run when those two were out. They were great against the pass (2nd in INTs). This all is on the assumption of health, due to lack of depth
Click to expand...
Secondary is among the best, so if you're putting them among the best, I'm not going to argue strongly against it. I just wouldn't put them there without a better pass rush.

 
dhockster said:
FUBAR said:
dhockster said:
FUBAR said:
dhockster said:
FUBAR said:
dhockster said:
bumpman said:
I would put the Browns in here as well.
Click to expand...
Fair enough. So of the Bills, Texans, Jets, Rams, and Browns, which team has the best season?
Click to expand...
If we're adding the Browns, how do you not add the Cardinals? the Ravens?
Click to expand...
Palmer and Flacco are better than mediocre.
Click to expand...
We need to define mediocre.
Click to expand...
Flacco: 72-40 record as a starter, 10-5 in the playoffs, led his team to a SB victory

Palmer: Led league in TD's in 2005, 16-6 record under a good offensive coach last two years. A few down years but those were either in Cincinnati or the dumpster fire that is the Oakland Raiders.
Click to expand...
It's a bad sign when you reach for stats a decade old.Also, record doesn't really help your argument when their defenses were great.
Click to expand...
I concede that mediocre was a poor choice of words because it has too broad a meaning. I should have used below average QB's.

And the bolded is really the point of my post: Which defenses are good enough to overcome their deficiencies at QB? I think the fact that Arizona went 10-6 and 6-0 the last two years with Palmer as QB, indicates that Palmer is not a liability at QB and the record reflects that. The same holds true for Flacco. Palmer and Flacco do enough in their offenses that their high level defenses are able to help them win a majority of their games.
Click to expand...
right. which IMO makes them fit your original post perfectly. Neither Flacco nor Palmer would be in the playoffs with a below average D. But they're adequate as things stand.

agreed that the Texans, Jets and Bills fit the bill too. I'm just not sold on the Browns.

 
FUBAR said:
dhockster said:
FUBAR said:
dhockster said:
FUBAR said:
dhockster said:
FUBAR said:
dhockster said:
bumpman said:
I would put the Browns in here as well.
Click to expand...
Fair enough. So of the Bills, Texans, Jets, Rams, and Browns, which team has the best season?
Click to expand...
If we're adding the Browns, how do you not add the Cardinals? the Ravens?
Click to expand...
Palmer and Flacco are better than mediocre.
Click to expand...
We need to define mediocre.
Click to expand...
Flacco: 72-40 record as a starter, 10-5 in the playoffs, led his team to a SB victory

Palmer: Led league in TD's in 2005, 16-6 record under a good offensive coach last two years. A few down years but those were either in Cincinnati or the dumpster fire that is the Oakland Raiders.
Click to expand...
It's a bad sign when you reach for stats a decade old.Also, record doesn't really help your argument when their defenses were great.
Click to expand...
I concede that mediocre was a poor choice of words because it has too broad a meaning. I should have used below average QB's.

And the bolded is really the point of my post: Which defenses are good enough to overcome their deficiencies at QB? I think the fact that Arizona went 10-6 and 6-0 the last two years with Palmer as QB, indicates that Palmer is not a liability at QB and the record reflects that. The same holds true for Flacco. Palmer and Flacco do enough in their offenses that their high level defenses are able to help them win a majority of their games.
Click to expand...
right. which IMO makes them fit your original post perfectly. Neither Flacco nor Palmer would be in the playoffs with a below average D. But they're adequate as things stand.

agreed that the Texans, Jets and Bills fit the bill too. I'm just not sold on the Browns.
Click to expand...
I think you may have a point with Palmer, but I don't think a team makes the playoffs in 6 of 7 seasons and wins at least one playoff game in all six playoff seasons just based on its defense. I am not saying Flacco is an elite QB, but I think he has done enough in the league to be considered a good starting QB.

 
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