Henry Ford
Footballguy
And as an aside I'm not the one asking for laws to be changed. The law is on my side. You're the one arguing for that. Oops.
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HS girls stage a walkout as trans teen uses girls bathroom (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter fantasycurse42
- Start date
rockaction
Footballguy
Your argument has been 190 posts of logical preciousness in the service of radically personal empiricism. I wish you well in your future endeavors.Well, I also discuss this with adults. A lot more than kids, because I tend to represent adults much more often. And here's what adults say looking back, virtually universally:The bathroom/locker room experience was probably the worst part of high school. It may not have been something I protested, or something I talked about, but it was absolutely the most shameful, embarrassing, horrifying part of growing up. It's still something I think about in bouts of depression, and anxiety, and fear, and shame, and it makes me sick to my stomach. And I won't live like that anymore, now, as an adult.Well, I have talked to three in the past two days, none of which feel discriminated against.
I imagine maybe a very tiny bit, but NONE of them have any plans to raise any kind of #### about having to use the "wrong" bathrooms.
The levels of embarrassement and feelings of being discriminated against are rather small. They may be there, but to what level??
BUt hey, let's just embarrass EVERYONE then
I appreciate that you have experience with transgender youth. Please also appreciate that you have experience with transgender youth who have access to healthcare related to their concerns. And that I experience transgender youth who do not.
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ghostguy123
Footballguy
So where is your solution of "a private bathroom". That is obviously the best answer. The worst possible answer is allowing penises in the girls room and Ginas in the mens room.
And I am not talking about adults, at all. That is an entirely different conversation.
And I am not talking about adults, at all. That is an entirely different conversation.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Page 2 or 3 when I said I think it's a reasonable solution?But it's not reasonable to the person who's being discriminated against. So that complicates things.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
And you also, sir. May your gibberish foofaraw lead to a plethora of prosperity.Your argument has been 190 posts of logical preciousness in the service of radically personal empiricism. I wish you well in your future endeavors.Well, I also discuss this with adults. A lot more than kids, because I tend to represent adults much more often. And here's what adults say looking back, virtually universally:The bathroom/locker room experience was probably the worst part of high school. It may not have been something I protested, or something I talked about, but it was absolutely the most shameful, embarrassing, horrifying part of growing up. It's still something I think about in bouts of depression, and anxiety, and fear, and shame, and it makes me sick to my stomach. And I won't live like that anymore, now, as an adult.Well, I have talked to three in the past two days, none of which feel discriminated against.
I imagine maybe a very tiny bit, but NONE of them have any plans to raise any kind of #### about having to use the "wrong" bathrooms.
The levels of embarrassement and feelings of being discriminated against are rather small. They may be there, but to what level??
BUt hey, let's just embarrass EVERYONE then
I appreciate that you have experience with transgender youth. Please also appreciate that you have experience with transgender youth who have access to healthcare related to their concerns. And that I experience transgender youth who do not.
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ghostguy123
Footballguy
Then there is just no pleasing them according to you. If making things equal for all is "discriminating against them", then there is no solution.
I am not talking about transgender bathrooms. I am talking about a private bathroom that anyone can use. It's very simple if schools can afford it.
Again, for the 100th time, it is unreasonable to humiliate and anger EVERYONE by allowing this. It's not a rational decision, at all.
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Henry Ford
Footballguy
You probably remember how well "separate but equal" facilities work under the law and why.It's only unreasonable if you disagree that this person fits the definition of the gender role "girl."
ghostguy123
Footballguy
And again, if your "gender role" definition is going to trump "scientific definition", and if your "please a few transgenders" trumps "humiliating everyone else", then no, we won't agree, ever, about any of this.
And again, if all the bathrooms are private, that is not "separate but equal". It is "equal".
Side question and just for fun to hear your answer. Is it any more or less right or wrong to hit a transgender male than it is to hit a regular male?
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ghostguy123
Footballguy
The funny thing is, a transgender feels embarrassed because they have to go to the bathroom with "the opposite sex"...........................think about that for a minute as it relates to everyone else being subjected to members of the opposite sex using their bathroom.
The "gender roles" of the transgender are pretty irrelevant to the girls in the bathroom who have a dude with a weiner in there, regardless of what he thinks he is or was meant to be, or lives his life as, or which roles he takes on.
The "gender roles" of the transgender are pretty irrelevant to the girls in the bathroom who have a dude with a weiner in there, regardless of what he thinks he is or was meant to be, or lives his life as, or which roles he takes on.
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Henry Ford
Footballguy
Why would it be more or less wrong to hit a transgender male than a biological male?
Henry Ford
Footballguy
To beat a dead horse, bathroom use is based on gender, not sex.
Mister CIA
Footballguy
I'm not a human.
There exists within me mysterious stardust particles that, while I can't explain, differentiate me from the common human race, hence your laws do no apply to me.
Surprise twist: I'm serious.
There exists within me mysterious stardust particles that, while I can't explain, differentiate me from the common human race, hence your laws do no apply to me.
Surprise twist: I'm serious.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
ghostguy123
Footballguy
I am the one asking the question.
If I get in a fight and punch Jim, is it the same as if I get in a fight and punch Jim who was born Jane who has no weiner.
I don't have an answer, hence the question.
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Henry Ford
Footballguy
Why? Is there a usual female gender role that includes standing up to urinate? And where is the intersex bathroom? For people who are not biologically male or female?
ghostguy123
Footballguy
ghostguy123
Footballguy
I think you got that backwards. Cause ya know, if chicks with ##### are in the womens bathroom, some alterations will need to be made.
And if dudes with no wangs are in the mens room, they may need to make some alterations there also.
No more urinals I guess.
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Henry Ford
Footballguy
Well, yeah. Assuming the two Jims are equal in fighting ability, physical strength, and provocation, no difference.
How about this one: you punch Jim, a 120-lb 5'2" computer programmer with club feet who bench presses 45 lbs. or Rhonda Roussey. Is either of those more okay than the other?
Henry Ford
Footballguy
You're a very degrading, insulting person toward people who are transgender for someone who works with transgender youth.And no, no alterations have to be made.
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Henry Ford
Footballguy
Why would you have to remove urinals just because not everyone uses them?
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Simple physics. For the same reason current women's bathrooms do not have urinals. Very obvious.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Mister CIA
Footballguy
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Eh. These questions get easier with age.
Mister CIA
Footballguy
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
I don't understand. How can you argue how it is no big deal for girls to change clothes in a room with somebody they think is a boy and has a penis, yet it is a tormenting experience that causes bouts of depression for life for somebody that thinks they are a girl to have to change in front of boys with penises?Well, I also discuss this with adults. A lot more than kids, because I tend to represent adults much more often. And here's what adults say looking back, virtually universally:The bathroom/locker room experience was probably the worst part of high school. It may not have been something I protested, or something I talked about, but it was absolutely the most shameful, embarrassing, horrifying part of growing up. It's still something I think about in bouts of depression, and anxiety, and fear, and shame, and it makes me sick to my stomach. And I won't live like that anymore, now, as an adult.Well, I have talked to three in the past two days, none of which feel discriminated against.
I imagine maybe a very tiny bit, but NONE of them have any plans to raise any kind of #### about having to use the "wrong" bathrooms.
The levels of embarrassement and feelings of being discriminated against are rather small. They may be there, but to what level??
BUt hey, let's just embarrass EVERYONE then
I appreciate that you have experience with transgender youth. Please also appreciate that you have experience with transgender youth who have access to healthcare related to their concerns. And that I experience transgender youth who do not.
avoiding injuries
Footballguy
As long as it's only for a few short seconds, should be no big deal.if looking a penises is no big deal, someone, in the spirit of scientific discovery, should walk into a high school girl's locker room naked.. report back
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
I disagree with a lot of what Henry Ford is posting, but I just can't bring myself to care who I'm sharing a restroom with, and I'm not really convinced that it's all that reasonable for other people to care. I have no idea who's in that stall or what sex they are, and they don't know anything about me either. And if I'm standing at a urinal and some lady walks in, so what? It's not like my #### is flapping in the wind for all to behold or that I'm showing it off or anything. We could all bathrooms over to unisex tomorrow and it wouldn't matter to me except that I like being able to get in and out of the mens room without women slowing down traffic.
I'm at that age where I personally wouldn't even care if we had unisex locker rooms, but that's one where I can see why a completely reasonable person might feel differently, and I think I'm probably the outlier there.
I'm at that age where I personally wouldn't even care if we had unisex locker rooms, but that's one where I can see why a completely reasonable person might feel differently, and I think I'm probably the outlier there.
FUBAR
Footballguy
Are you assuming Transgender males are automatically weak? It's wrong to assault people regardless. A mutual fray would be different.
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FUBAR
Footballguy
For reasonable people it might not be.As long as it's only for a few short seconds, should be no big deal.if looking a penises is no big deal, someone, in the spirit of scientific discovery, should walk into a high school girl's locker room naked.. report back
HS girls (boys too) aren't always reasonable.
FUBAR
Footballguy
Ditka Butkus
Footballguy
Actually thing brings up an interesting question. Does the transgender ex-female still get her period? If so you are correct in regards to the alteration. Sanitary napkin dispensers will now have to be included in the men,s room.
Todd Andrews
Footballguy
I always do a full Buffalo Bill tuck when I read one of your posts.
What do you think that means?
Ditka Butkus
Footballguy
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
You are missing something. They are faster. You don't have to touch them to lift up a seat. They are cheaper to maintain. They don't need a floor drain.
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one without a handful of trans friends....
munga30
Checkin' my email
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
I honestly don't know a single transgender person. Then again, maybe I actually do know a few, but I just don't know it. A few of my women colleagues look a little off. In the interest of raising awareness and becoming more sensitive to trans issues, I think I'll ask a few of them if they're biologically male. I'll let you know what I learn.
matttyl
Footballguy
1. So again, the school is going to have to implement a "go wherever you want" philosophy. If you want to use the men's room you can, but we'll also allow you to use the women's. I mean, it's either this or a potential lawsuit, correct?
3. So is asking what gender you are to every person. No one's doing that currently, are they? So why would there all of a sudden be some bathroom cop checking IDs?
![[icon]](/data/avatars/m/5/5167.jpg?1660313464){kind=avatar}
Jayrod
Footballguy
ATC1
Footballguy
You do know we are talking about a locker room and not just using the bathroom?IvanKaramazov said:
None of this matters really. Next school year every HS across the country will have a paragraph in their handbook saying there can be the possiblity of students seeing male or female genitalia[SIZE=14.6667px] while in the locker rooms. If anyone refuses to sign that they agree to the handbook they can try homeschooling. [/SIZE]
Instinctive
Footballguy
Still think it's kinda unreasonable that we all have separate bathrooms anyway. Like Ivan, however, I do appreciate always being able to go to the one with a shorter wait because it always seems like women not only take longer, but just go more often.
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
Seems logical to me.IvanKaramazov said:
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
This is the perspective from a mature adult... Think about it from a high school girls point of view.IvanKaramazov said:
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Henry Ford
Footballguy
1. For a student who is biologically male and transgender female or biologically female and transgender male, the student would likely need to have the choice to use whichever restroom the student desires to use. Yes.matttyl said:
3. No, they aren't. But they are allowing people who outwardly express gender characteristics ("live as a woman") to use the women's restroom. You're the one trying to change that by instituting a bathroom use policy that relies on a biological definition of male/female that most people don't even know if they fit. Have you had your chromosomes tested? Do you know if you're an xx male? Do you know if you have vestigial ovaries from a development issue that technically make you intersex? If you have elevated estrogen levels? I don't.
Instinctive
Footballguy
Do you think high schoolers are born with shame and awkwardness around naked-ness? Or do you think perhaps we indoctrinate them into it with things like separate locker rooms and the like?
ATC1
Footballguy
I think as parents we hide ourslelves from the kids seeing us because they should not see an adult naked. Having see your parents naked is about as awkward as it can get for a teenager. I think some of that is carried over to the locker room. Especially those that don't have sisters or lots of friends.
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
Not sure where you're going with this... I think high school girls are at a stage in life where they understand nudity, and a group of them not wanting to share a locker room with someone born a boy is perfectly normal. This has nothing to do with what adults say and more to do with instinct.
