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Russ or Cam (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter thatguy
- Start date
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Russ, not close. Just a better player, and isn't a total ### wipe.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
Wilson and not close for me, if you made this Luck vs Wilson then we have a debate.
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
Unlike some my opinion on Cam never changed after the SB. I knew he was a sore loser beforehand and I don't see it changing. I've never liked him all that much. He's a pretty damn good athlete though but I'd rather have Russell. Russell has that skill set and is a great leader.
hamster_13
Footballguy
Panther fan. Wilson all day, every day.
DocHolliday
Footballguy
Before the SB, I would have considered Cam but probably settled on Wilson. Now, I choose Wilson immediately.
Cam still has potential to be a great.
Cam still has potential to be a great.
thatguy
Footballguy
I agree, the timing was intentional. I've always liked both, but even prior to Sunday my choice would still have been wilson. My guess is that had I done this poll a week or two ago it would have been 50 50 or possibly even in Cam's favor. But what happened happened and public perception has changed substantially which is why I thought this was a good time to make this poll. Character issues aside I take wilson for the simple fact that I think he will last longer and has played amazing in his two Super Bowls. He doesn't get rattled. He doesn't take the hits that Cam does and let's face it, Cam's body will not not last forever especially with as much weight as he is carrying. The few years from now cam wont be the running thread he is now and we'll see if he can truly succeed as a pure pocket passer. My opinion is that he'll be solid but not spectacular whereas Wilson has already shown you can succeed as a dual threat or as a pocket passer in any number of situations and can put his team on his back in the biggest of moments.
The General
Footballguy
Cam's a beast but Wilson has proven to be better IMO.
Pretty set if you have either.
Pretty set if you have either.
BassNBrew
Footballguy
Would have said Wilson easily before this year. It's probably a push right now, but Cam has been improving at a faster rate as of late. Assuming that trajectory continues he'll surpass Wilson. Cam missed two NFL off seasons (injury and lockout) and was attending school in the off season too.
ImTheScientist
Footballguy
Wilson, kiss the ring Cam.
He's bigger and stronger at a position and in a game where it pays to be big and strong. Wilson is awesome though.
I have zero issue with the fumble play. He's gone to battle and taken so many hits for that team in every situation. Those guys don't question his commitment to winning. These guys watching from their couch getting outraged behind a keyboard are a hoot.
This.
Cam doing all of those glory boy two yard touchdown dives from the goal line will eventually catch up with him. I'd suggest looking at the career of Daunte Culpepper for a comparison. Peaked at the age of 27 (4,700 yards and 39 TD's), then rapidly fell off a cliff... and Cam turns 27 in May...
thatguy
Footballguy
Agreed. I did Russ V Cam since a lot of people have been suggesting they are going to be the NFC's next generation version of Manning V Brady.
skol asylum
Footballguy
Sleep with them both. Marry them both. Kill them both. Not necessarily in that order.
I think Wilson, Luck, and Mariota are going to be the top guys over the next 5 years or so.
thatguy
Footballguy
Thanks for chiming in
I just worry that given how big Cam is, his body will wear down quicker than Wilson's, especially given how many more hits he takes. Wilson runs as much as Cam but Wilson doesn't welcome contact the way Cam sometimes seems to and Seattle doesn't utililize Russ the same way Carolina utilizes Newton in the run option where he is far more exposed to big hits. Cam's game and size remind me a bit of Culpepper , and Culpepper's prime was great but also short. Granted, I think Cam is more physically gifted and in better shape than Culpepper, but that is my main concern regarding Cam--his ability to remain great into his 30's. Perhaps as his ability to run fades, he will become more of a Big Ben type, though, which I also think is a good comparison. Time will tell...
Hu-Tang Clan
Footballguy
It's Wilson by a mile but I wish he'd have a little bit of an edge or some personality to him and not always speak like he's memorized something some PR person wrote every single time something comes out of his mouth.
Go Hawks.....
:X
Go Hawks.....
:X
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Insein
Footballguy
Cam is an athletic freak. All the tools you could ever want and then some. Russell has shown the intangibles though. He leads his team. He can perform under pressure. He accepts responsibility. He doesn't run from adversity. Plus he's still pretty good on the field.
Very close. A lot closer than people think. Right now, I'd still take Cam and hope that he can mature because his physical ability is Superior to Russell's.
Very close. A lot closer than people think. Right now, I'd still take Cam and hope that he can mature because his physical ability is Superior to Russell's.
spider321
Footballguy
Accurately throwing the football is a QB's most important physical ability.
All other physical traits are secondary. Especially, as these guys get older.
Neofight
Footballguy
Yep, and Wilson is still a step faster and more explosive.
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
Wilson always does a good job avoiding contact for a mobile QB, if he can continue to do that, I take him... He doesn't have the frame to take the punishment like Cam.
Cam haters are so funny on this board, his number 1 WR this year was ####### Tedd Ginn - the guy was a miracle worker out there. While I'm taking Wilson right now, def wouldn't surprise me to come back and debate this again with a different opinion in a year or two.
Cam haters are so funny on this board, his number 1 WR this year was ####### Tedd Ginn - the guy was a miracle worker out there. While I'm taking Wilson right now, def wouldn't surprise me to come back and debate this again with a different opinion in a year or two.
Neofight
Footballguy
I'd say his #1 was Olsen, but Ginn did have more TD's.
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Can you imagine if Cam had WRs like Moss and Carter to throw to?!Thanks for chiming in
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
Olsen, as I'm sure you're aware is a TE.
His WRs were:
Ginn, Cotchery, Brown, & Funchess - That's just a terrible group.
jvdesigns2002
Footballguy
I'd go Wilson by a very slight edge here--but it's super close.
I know I'll probably get ridiculed for saying this--but I personally feel like Wilson is a bit over-rated. He has a reputation of being this golden boy, elite qb that is a consummate winner but people tend to overlook his flaws. In the Super Bowl that he played against New England--he didn't COMPLETE a pass until there was 5 minutes left in the first half. The major play that even gave Seattle a chance to win that Super Bowl was an absolute lucky miracle pass that artificially padded Wilsons stats. Lastly--people sometimes forget that Wilson was the dude that threw an int on the goal line that cost his team a Super bowl. Let's not forget that this season---a Wilson led team should have lost to the frigging Vikings--but got lucky that a solid field goal kicker managed to miss a chip shot. Going even further--when Wilson started off against the Panthers poorly--his team was down 31-0 before they used an entire second half of garbage time to make it a closer game. Don't get me wrong--Wilson is great---but let's not forget that he too played a big part in costing his team a Super Bowl.
What I'm basically saying is that both qb's are great---but both have their faults. Cam's major fault is that he can be immature and can emotionally "check out" at times--where WIlsons faults tend to be more on the side of making technical mistakes. For this reason--I take Wilson--but it's not a wide margin for me.
I know I'll probably get ridiculed for saying this--but I personally feel like Wilson is a bit over-rated. He has a reputation of being this golden boy, elite qb that is a consummate winner but people tend to overlook his flaws. In the Super Bowl that he played against New England--he didn't COMPLETE a pass until there was 5 minutes left in the first half. The major play that even gave Seattle a chance to win that Super Bowl was an absolute lucky miracle pass that artificially padded Wilsons stats. Lastly--people sometimes forget that Wilson was the dude that threw an int on the goal line that cost his team a Super bowl. Let's not forget that this season---a Wilson led team should have lost to the frigging Vikings--but got lucky that a solid field goal kicker managed to miss a chip shot. Going even further--when Wilson started off against the Panthers poorly--his team was down 31-0 before they used an entire second half of garbage time to make it a closer game. Don't get me wrong--Wilson is great---but let's not forget that he too played a big part in costing his team a Super Bowl.
What I'm basically saying is that both qb's are great---but both have their faults. Cam's major fault is that he can be immature and can emotionally "check out" at times--where WIlsons faults tend to be more on the side of making technical mistakes. For this reason--I take Wilson--but it's not a wide margin for me.
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Neofight
Footballguy
This is the NFL in 2016. All of those WR's were passable starters and better as a group than the 49ers, amongst others.
That would have been a decidedly minority view back in September. Now, after the season, suddenly it looks like Ginn and Brown could be called "passable starters" based on what actually happened when they were forced into it. How much of that improvement in WR assessment is on Cam though?
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Agree with this.
The running will catch up to Wilson also, but his running style is much more sustainable for a longer period of time.
FUBAR
Footballguy
Cam would have loved to throw to Boldin. Ginn is not better than Torrey smith, Patton isn't worse than philly brown.
But yes, TE lives matter.
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
You can't win this argument with Neofight. He refuses to admit that the Panthers WR group was not coveted by any NFL team going into this season. I think he's blinded by the final results of the season and not going by the perception of the talent going into the season. It's been well known that the majority of NFL analysts think their talent is lacking and they overachieved this year.
The General
Footballguy
Wilson isn't exactly throwing to a studly crew. This year he had some weapons and his numbers were fantastic.
With Cam being such a threat to run on every play, and Olsen being a top 3 receiving tight end, defenses have so much to concern themselves with, that Ginn & company are a totally fine set of receivers. With a less mobile quarterback and average tight end, they'd seem below average, but with the single coverage they all get, they're quite effective.
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Neofight
Footballguy
Back in September Russell Wilson had 3 undrafted free agents as his starters at WR and a 3rd round kick return specialist most thought wouldn't contribute in the passing game as his top WRs. He also had Jimmy Graham, who proved to be a liability (still) at pass blocking. When Graham went down, Wilson went on an historically torrid tear of pocket passing precision. The timing was just a coincidence, of course, but it still happened that Doug Baldwin suddenly looked like a legit #1 WR and Tyler Lockett was the next Steve Smith. The same question applies with the Seahawks squad, only just about nobody expected them to be as good as they've preformed.
Neofight
Footballguy
Let's not misstate the argument. I never said any team coveted anything. My contention was that there is legitimate NFL talent on that Panthers offense, and that includes the WRs. If you want to open it up to looking at teams that would covet the WR talent Carolina has, look at Philadelphia, St. Louis, Tennessee and the 49ers for starters. It's simply true that the Panther WRs grade out (and look on film) like NFL caliber receivers. Others refuse to state that because the hype machine around Cam Newton was a runaway train throughout the season. You can listen to a guy wihactual NFL front office experience, by the name of Andrew Brandt, state this same thing convincingly. It's merely a matter of cutting through the hype.
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Neofight
Footballguy
I'm sorry, because I've always loved Boldin, but he's about done as an NFL WR. He can barely get open at this stage of his career. I'd be surprised to see him in the league next season, and if he is I doubt he'll be a starter.
jvdesigns2002
Footballguy
I don't want to pick sides here--but look at the receiving squad as an entire pool of talent for the Pathers--Olsen, Cotchery, Ginn, Funchess and Brown.
That group of talent is easily in the bottom third of the NFL. I'm trying to think of teams that maybe had worse talent as a bunch--and I'm thinking 49ers, Rams, Vikings, Titans, possibly the Eagles, the Cowboys (if we factor in that Dez was basically gone/hobbled all year), maybe the Packers (based on how people view Cobb), Browns, Ravens, and the Chargers (if we factor in Allen being gone much of the year).
Let's not kid ourselves here--Cam wasn't blessed with massive talent here. The team was able to be successful even with a bottom third pool of talent here because of a great defense, a solid o-line, j-stew having a nice year, and Cam playing very well. While some may argue that the receiving core of this team didn't hurt the Panthers and was "adequate"--I think it's very fair to say that they weren't very significant factors in helping them much either.
That group of talent is easily in the bottom third of the NFL. I'm trying to think of teams that maybe had worse talent as a bunch--and I'm thinking 49ers, Rams, Vikings, Titans, possibly the Eagles, the Cowboys (if we factor in that Dez was basically gone/hobbled all year), maybe the Packers (based on how people view Cobb), Browns, Ravens, and the Chargers (if we factor in Allen being gone much of the year).
Let's not kid ourselves here--Cam wasn't blessed with massive talent here. The team was able to be successful even with a bottom third pool of talent here because of a great defense, a solid o-line, j-stew having a nice year, and Cam playing very well. While some may argue that the receiving core of this team didn't hurt the Panthers and was "adequate"--I think it's very fair to say that they weren't very significant factors in helping them much either.
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
Neofight
Footballguy
Let's not set up straw men arguments either. Nobody is comparing the Panthers squad to the Steelers or Cardinals. But thank you for bringing up the Packers, Ravens, Browns and Chargers, because the Panthers receiving core, whether by pedigree or performance, certainly have talent that was on par or better than all of those teams. And you can absolutely throw Philly in there as well. At the start of the season I would have easily included Seattle in that list, but Baldwin proved me to be wrong about his ability to be a #1 and Benjamin unfortunately went down. Put Benjamin back in the mix and I think you have to say Carolina easily has more talent going back into the next season (without considering their respective drafts).
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Neofight
Footballguy
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
You can easily make the argument that the 2016 Panthers WR group was the worst in the NFL... You might be able to argue a few other teams as bad as this grouping of WRs, but they are absolutely in the conversation.
I'd accept arguments for the Titans, Browns, 49ers, Eagles, Ravens (post Steve Smith injury), and Panthers... All can make a case, all had an extremely below average group of WRs.
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