Posted 03 November 2010 - 02:22 PM
Posted 04 November 2010 - 11:59 AM
Shaun was placed on the PUP list before the season began and lost his starting NT job to Ahtyba Rubin. In 7 games this season Shuan only has 5 tackles without regestering any: sacks, forced fumbles, rumble recoveries, interceptions, passed defensed. He hasn't even gotten a single assist to go with his 5 solo tackles. Having said all of the above, it is Shaun Rogers and even though it doesn't show in the box score he just had his best game of the season against the Saints. Also, he is playing DE not DT or NT as Rubin has taken over the starting NT job so even though it seems like a slam-dunk to dump the chump I would hate to suggest cutting Shuan right now when he might start to garner more PT and just when he actually is starting to look good for the first time this year. If anything look at Ahtyba Rubin if he's available because he's realling coming on. Ahtyba has 24 solos and 5 assists to go with an interception and 2 passes defensed and he's coming off a 5 solo and 1 assist game and he's 7 years younger than Shaun if you play dynasty and are looking long-term.
Has his skills declined or is it bad luck? He was like a top DT 2 years ago. Is he now droppable in dynasty leagues where DT is required?
Posted 05 November 2010 - 12:37 PM
Posted 06 November 2010 - 12:51 PM
I would feel that it would be fair to say that Rubin's fantasy value came by teams targeting him if I felt that teams targeted him because he was soft against the run but I don't feel that is accurate at all. The longest run of the season on the Browns defense was right up the gut aimed at the nose tackle but... ... that run went over Shaun Rogers not Ahtyba Rubin. Shaun was giving Rubin a blow and that long 50+ yard run by Michael Turner cost them a great game by the defense and allowed the Falcons the win. Shaun turned it around in New Orleans but going back to Rubin. Last year when Rogers landed on IR and Rubin took over the defense suddenly tighted up all around but specifically in reducing rush yardage by about 35 yards a game. Rogers has mad athletic ability but he is inconsistent and he also free-lances. Rubin is much more consistent and plays within the system and all 3-4 defenses reed the block on the NT from the C to key off of so having a consistent NT who plays within the system, especially a Mangini/Belichick 3-4 base built on discipline, means that having a stout 3-4 NT who is consistent and plays within the system is crucial. Rubin is playing well above expectations. He's solid, consistent, strong, makes plays, but he also plays within the system. Ahtyba Rubin is solid against the run.
Do you think that part of Rubin's fantasy value is in the fact that teams feel they can run at him? He seems very movable in the rungame at times, is that fair to say?
Edited by Bracie Smathers, 06 November 2010 - 12:52 PM.
Posted 09 November 2010 - 11:21 PM
Posted 10 November 2010 - 09:13 AM
Its difficult to focus on interior line play, especially when things get sloppy inside unless you are at the game and are seated in the endzone with a clear view of the line from a horizontal angle so you can really see things instead of viewing the action from a sideline where you get a diagonal or verticle view. Oh and if you ever get the chance to get down and view the game from the sideline the angle is low and verticle (I helped a cameraman from CBS while going to college for Colorado back in the CU championship years and got to see each play from all angles on the sidelines and from the back of the endzone down on the field but I think for concentrating on interior line play that the best angle is from the stands in the endzone, yeah the cheap seats are best for checking out interior line play IMHO). I was in the endzone and had a perfect shot to check out interior line play and Rubin really impressed me his rookie season when he saw his first action against the Bengals. He was super active but the rest of the D was out of sync. Last year Rubin was a guy I thought would take a huge leap and he did esp when Rogers landed on IR and the D kicked it up a notch with Ahtyba at NT. This year the Browns have only given up one rushing TD in eight games. That is pretty impressive with the primary constant being Ahtyba Rubin. Sunday the Pats only could manage rushing for 68 yards on the Browns. The Pats came into that game with the highest point-per-game average of 29.2 but only put up 14 against the Browns. Oh and Rubin had one of his better games of his career with, 3 solos, 1 assist, and his first NFL sack and it came at the expense of Tom Brady so a fine day at the office for Rube. Ahtyba Rubin is 6'2 330 lbs and only 24 years old and only halfway thru his third season in the league and he's getting better all the time. If anything take a look at Shaun Rogers when he's in the game and you will see him getting walked down the line right out of the play and you can see him guess and shoot gaps and completely miss the action and you can also see him simply poop out and not make any sort of push at all. Also you will see uber-athletic and powerful plays from Rogers but that is the point, he's not consistent and won't/can't/hasn't ever given a consistent effort. I have been suprised by Rubin's play. He made a spectacular play in preseason against the Pack when he exploded into the backfield and stripped a Green Bay RB for a fumble, truly shocked me that he had that sort of ability. Then on Sunday he just crushed Brady on that sack and once again I saw explosion that shocked me from Rubin. Add in the unexpected explosion and his ability to make plays coupled with his consistency and quite frankly I just don't see the weakness you describe with his run defense, I just don't see it. I see a solid base and a guy consistently taking on multiple blockers and stacking the line. The fact the Browns have only given up one rushing TD in half a season should be rock-solid evidence that you can't run on the Browns when it matters. Rubin's solid production and consistent effort are a huge part of the Browns run defense and I don't see the weakness that you describe. I would say do one thing always when trying to evaluat any player and that is... Put things in proper context meaning if you think you see something good or bad from a player then check other players for similiarities and then go back to the original player and re-evaluate. I would bet if you looked at Rogers you will see him getting walked out of plays and allowing huge openings in the middle of the line more often than you can imagine. Then check out someone like a Vince Wilfork, a Pro Bowl NT who got owned by Browns C Alex Mack on Sunday. Context is the key when evaluating players. If you don't put things in proper context and only look at players in a vaccum then you are just shouting into an echo chamber and you will only hear your own voice telling you whatever you shout into it. Ahtyba Rubin is solid against the run IMHO but don't take my word for it, check out other NTs and then go back and double check Rubin.
I have only seen about half of the Browns games this season, although in the past few seasons I have basically watched them all. The thing that I noticed about Rubin is that sometimes guys get under him and drive him down the line and/or backwards. I never noticed anything like that with Shaun Rogers, he may get stood up but he rarely gets driven. To clarify my original point a little... I'm not saying that teams can run all over Rubin. I'm saying that teams don't feel like they can't run on Rubin as if he's some dominant player. He is going to get decent stats with solid play because teams will live with it and they aren't going to go out of their way to avoid him in the context of their normal game plans. I will watch more closely in the next few weeks to see if Rubin is getting drive blocked like I recall in the past. I understand that with increased playing time his fantasy stats have improved, but I wonder what kind of holes he still has in his real life game. What do you think of his game overall? Are you saying he's pro bowl caliber or just an average starter type? Is he doing anything on an elite level? Do you see any glaring weaknesses or limitations?
Posted 16 February 2012 - 12:35 AM
I recently read an article highlighting poor play from this past season: http://www.footballo...11-all-kcw-team
Reminded me of this thread. Here is an exerpt, I bolded the relevant part:
Tom: And we finally get to talk about the Cleveland Browns!
Mike: How have we avoided the Browns thus far?
Tom: They were mostly just garden-variety bad instead of ridiculously awful? And Gabbert out-classed Colt McCoy in awfulness.
Tom: The Browns were terrible defending runs up the middle this year. Both defensive tackles, Ahytba Rubin and rookie Phil Taylor, make their average tackle well downfield and had terrible stop rates. Taylor, in fact, ranked last among defensive tackles. Are you comfortable picking on the rookie, or shall we take the veteran?
Mike: Oh, Taylor, by a mile. I've seen few players who looked so completely lost on so many different occasions.
Tom: Rubin was bad enough I don't think it can be by a mile, but I'm on board with the Phil Taylor pick. At the other tackle spot, while we try not to make this about our teams, I think the Titans' Shaun Smith is another player who deserves strong consideration. He had a terrible stop rate, made his average tackle well downfield, did essentially nothing in terms of rushing the passer, and more or less got benched as the year went on."