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bostonfred

Who's better, Manning or Brady?

Who's the better quarterback?  

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Scoreboard.

This doesn't work when you cheated to get there.

If Jerry Rice used stickum for every game of his career, does that mean he's no longer the best wide receiver of all time? The typical response someone bringing Rice up is that he was never caught lying about it, but this conversation isn't about someone's integrity. It's about who is the best player. If you want to write off Brady's accomplishments because he broke a rule (which is a 25k fine in the NFL rulebook), then you need to do the same for Jerry Rice.

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Scoreboard.

This doesn't work when you cheated to get there.

If Jerry Rice used stickum for every game of his career, does that mean he's no longer the best wide receiver of all time? The typical response someone bringing Rice up is that he was never caught lying about it, but this conversation isn't about someone's integrity. It's about who is the best player. If you want to write off Brady's accomplishments because he broke a rule (which is a 25k fine in the NFL rulebook), then you need to do the same for Jerry Rice.

No we don't. Rice was just words. (e.g. BST stated: Green and Gold is a Rocket Surgeon!) Two entirely different scenarios.

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Scoreboard.

This doesn't work when you cheated to get there.

If Jerry Rice used stickum for every game of his career, does that mean he's no longer the best wide receiver of all time? The typical response someone bringing Rice up is that he was never caught lying about it, but this conversation isn't about someone's integrity. It's about who is the best player. If you want to write off Brady's accomplishments because he broke a rule (which is a 25k fine in the NFL rulebook), then you need to do the same for Jerry Rice.

No we don't. Rice was just words. (e.g. BST stated: Green and Gold is a Rocket Surgeon!) Two entirely different scenarios.

:confused:

yeah, the words: I USED STICKUM

if stickum is a word

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Scoreboard.

This doesn't work when you cheated to get there.

If Jerry Rice used stickum for every game of his career, does that mean he's no longer the best wide receiver of all time? The typical response someone bringing Rice up is that he was never caught lying about it, but this conversation isn't about someone's integrity. It's about who is the best player. If you want to write off Brady's accomplishments because he broke a rule (which is a 25k fine in the NFL rulebook), then you need to do the same for Jerry Rice.

No we don't. Rice was just words. (e.g. BST stated: Green and Gold is a Rocket Surgeon!) Two entirely different scenarios.

The disconnect is real.

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Scoreboard.

This doesn't work when you cheated to get there.

If Jerry Rice used stickum for every game of his career, does that mean he's no longer the best wide receiver of all time? The typical response someone bringing Rice up is that he was never caught lying about it, but this conversation isn't about someone's integrity. It's about who is the best player. If you want to write off Brady's accomplishments because he broke a rule (which is a 25k fine in the NFL rulebook), then you need to do the same for Jerry Rice.

No we don't. Rice was just words. (e.g. BST stated: Green and Gold is a Rocket Surgeon!) Two entirely different scenarios.

The disconnect is real.

He can "say" whatever he likes 20 years after-the-fact. It has ZERO bearing. None.

Hell, start a thread on it and you will see that its you (P*ts fans) who have a serious disconnect issue.

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Your reasoning makes literally no sense. You make excuse after excuse to separate the Patriots from every other instance of cheating. Then hold everyone to a different standard.

If someone breaks the same rule as the Pats, its not as bad, cause they aren't the Pats (a multiple offender in your opinion, in a league full of no innocent parties). If someone admits to breaking a rule, its okay cause they admitted to it. If someone doesn't admit to a rule, but is still found guilty but isn't punished - its okay, cause they aren't the Pats. If a player admits to breaking a rule, but does it for different reasons, its okay, because they aren't a Pat.

People are entitled to their terrible opinions, and I prefer to not ignore people - but you really are gonna have to unpack this logic cause it makes no ####### sense and I've been having to read it for the past three months.

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Your reasoning makes literally no sense. You make excuse after excuse to separate the Patriots from every other instance of cheating. Then hold everyone to a different standard.

If someone breaks the same rule as the Pats, its not as bad, cause they aren't the Pats (a multiple offender in your opinion, in a league full of no innocent parties). If someone admits to breaking a rule, its okay cause they admitted to it. If someone doesn't admit to a rule, but is still found guilty but isn't punished - its okay, cause they aren't the Pats. If a player admits to breaking a rule, but does it for different reasons, its okay, because they aren't a Pat.

People are entitled to their terrible opinions, and I prefer to not ignore people - but you really are gonna have to unpack this logic cause it makes no ####### sense and I've been having to read it for the past three months.

that's why they're called salty trolls

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been quite awhile since we last saw pitt --- can't even remember that last game

couple years ago, right?

wonder how that turned out

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Scoreboard.

This doesn't work when you cheated to get there.

If Jerry Rice used stickum for every game of his career, does that mean he's no longer the best wide receiver of all time? The typical response someone bringing Rice up is that he was never caught lying about it, but this conversation isn't about someone's integrity. It's about who is the best player. If you want to write off Brady's accomplishments because he broke a rule (which is a 25k fine in the NFL rulebook), then you need to do the same for Jerry Rice.

No we don't. Rice was just words. (e.g. BST stated: Green and Gold is a Rocket Surgeon!) Two entirely different scenarios.

It isn't two different scenarios at all. We just found out about each one in different ways. Let's put this another way. If deflate-gate never happened, and then 20 years from now Brady admitted to deflating footballs illegally, would the fallout be the same as it is now? Likely not even close, but the competitive advantage he gained from doing it would remain the same. Same deal with Rice. Sure, he wasn't caught at the time, but assuming he wasn't lying about his own use of an illegal substance, did that change the competitive advantage he got over someone like, say, Chris Carter?

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4>>>1

1. Jan. 19, 2002 ("Tuck rule" game thanks to Walt Coleman).

2. Jan. 18, 2004 (2003 AFC championship game in which Ty Law and Co. were allowed to mug the Colts' receivers with zero pass-interference penalties called -- again thanks to Walt Coleman).

3. February 2002 and September 2007 (Spygate incidents involving the St. Louis Rams and New York Jets).

4. Jan. 18, 2015 (Deflategate game vs. Colts).

That's your four examples of cheating for Brady's teams.

But refresh my memory. I can't think of one example for any of Peyton's teams.

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Again the Jerry Rice thing has zero bearing on the Tom Brady thing.

They can both be cheaters and it looks like the both are.

Sorry guys the whole "Someone else cheated so it's okay if Brady cheated." argument doesn't fly. It is merely a desperate attempt to distract from the fact that Brady was caught cheating and it tarnishes his legacy and the legacy of the Pats dynasty. They aren't stripping titles so enjoy them, but don't deny that he was caught cheating.

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Manning hands down. The only reason people say Brady is because Brady has 4 rings while Manning only has 2. Folks forget that two of Brady's rings should never have happened. His first ring was because of the infamous "tuck rule" where a clear and obvious Brady fumble was ruled to be an incomplete pass! His fourth ring was because Pete Carroll went brain dead and decided to have Russell Wilson throw a pass at the goal line instead of running Marshawn Lynch!

Tommy Boy ain't all that! He really ain't nuttin but a poser. I'm glad he got booed yesterday.

And Manning would have none if he didn't face an inept Rex Grossman in one super bowl and have a defense that bailed out his pathetic performance last night.

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Manning hands down. The only reason people say Brady is because Brady has 4 rings while Manning only has 2. Folks forget that two of Brady's rings should never have happened. His first ring was because of the infamous "tuck rule" where a clear and obvious Brady fumble was ruled to be an incomplete pass! His fourth ring was because Pete Carroll went brain dead and decided to have Russell Wilson throw a pass at the goal line instead of running Marshawn Lynch!

Tommy Boy ain't all that! He really ain't nuttin but a poser. I'm glad he got booed yesterday.

This is a stupid excuse, if the Giants don't have two of the greatest catches in super bowl history the Pats are 6 - 0 , If Peyton didn't have the Colts D carry him through the playoffs in 06 and the Broncos 15 he has 0, but that isn't the case good and bad breaks and mistakes happen every game. The fact is Brady has 4 and Manning has 2. That isn't why I think Brady is better.

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Manning hands down. The only reason people say Brady is because Brady has 4 rings while Manning only has 2. Folks forget that two of Brady's rings should never have happened. His first ring was because of the infamous "tuck rule" where a clear and obvious Brady fumble was ruled to be an incomplete pass! His fourth ring was because Pete Carroll went brain dead and decided to have Russell Wilson throw a pass at the goal line instead of running Marshawn Lynch!

Tommy Boy ain't all that! He really ain't nuttin but a poser. I'm glad he got booed yesterday.

This is a stupid excuse, if the Giants don't have two of the greatest catches in super bowl history the Pats are 6 - 0 , If Peyton didn't have the Colts D carry him through the playoffs in 06 and the Broncos 15 he has 0, but that isn't the case good and bad breaks and mistakes happen every game. The fact is Brady has 4 and Manning has 2. That isn't why I think Brady is better.

That is also why you shouldn't judge QBs by the # of Super Bowl trophies they collect.

Terry Bradshaw was a mediocre QB and that's being generous.

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Manning hands down. The only reason people say Brady is because Brady has 4 rings while Manning only has 2. Folks forget that two of Brady's rings should never have happened. His first ring was because of the infamous "tuck rule" where a clear and obvious Brady fumble was ruled to be an incomplete pass! His fourth ring was because Pete Carroll went brain dead and decided to have Russell Wilson throw a pass at the goal line instead of running Marshawn Lynch!

Tommy Boy ain't all that! He really ain't nuttin but a poser. I'm glad he got booed yesterday.

This is a stupid excuse, if the Giants don't have two of the greatest catches in super bowl history the Pats are 6 - 0 , If Peyton didn't have the Colts D carry him through the playoffs in 06 and the Broncos 15 he has 0, but that isn't the case good and bad breaks and mistakes happen every game. The fact is Brady has 4 and Manning has 2. That isn't why I think Brady is better.

That is also why you shouldn't judge QBs by the # of Super Bowl trophies they collect.

Terry Bradshaw was a mediocre QB and that's being generous.

I know, that is why I said That isn't why I think Brady is better.

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Manning hands down. The only reason people say Brady is because Brady has 4 rings while Manning only has 2. Folks forget that two of Brady's rings should never have happened. His first ring was because of the infamous "tuck rule" where a clear and obvious Brady fumble was ruled to be an incomplete pass! His fourth ring was because Pete Carroll went brain dead and decided to have Russell Wilson throw a pass at the goal line instead of running Marshawn Lynch!

Tommy Boy ain't all that! He really ain't nuttin but a poser. I'm glad he got booed yesterday.

This is a stupid excuse, if the Giants don't have two of the greatest catches in super bowl history the Pats are 6 - 0 , If Peyton didn't have the Colts D carry him through the playoffs in 06 and the Broncos 15 he has 0, but that isn't the case good and bad breaks and mistakes happen every game. The fact is Brady has 4 and Manning has 2. That isn't why I think Brady is better.

:no:

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1. Jan. 19, 2002 ("Tuck rule" game thanks to Walt Coleman).

2. Jan. 18, 2004 (2003 AFC championship game in which Ty Law and Co. were allowed to mug the Colts' receivers with zero pass-interference penalties called -- again thanks to Walt Coleman).

Lmfao, first of all, the first and second points you make were both called properly.

Second I think its hilarious you cry about the tuck rule and the physical coverage in the same post. Peyton and the Colts cried about that and it was changed just for Peypey.

Lmfao cheating, is this what you philistines actually believe? :lol:

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Manning hands down. The only reason people say Brady is because Brady has 4 rings while Manning only has 2. Folks forget that two of Brady's rings should never have happened. His first ring was because of the infamous "tuck rule" where a clear and obvious Brady fumble was ruled to be an incomplete pass! His fourth ring was because Pete Carroll went brain dead and decided to have Russell Wilson throw a pass at the goal line instead of running Marshawn Lynch!

Tommy Boy ain't all that! He really ain't nuttin but a poser. I'm glad he got booed yesterday.

This is a stupid excuse, if the Giants don't have two of the greatest catches in super bowl history the Pats are 6 - 0 , If Peyton didn't have the Colts D carry him through the playoffs in 06 and the Broncos 15 he has 0, but that isn't the case good and bad breaks and mistakes happen every game. The fact is Brady has 4 and Manning has 2. That isn't why I think Brady is better.

That is also why you shouldn't judge QBs by the # of Super Bowl trophies they collect.

Terry Bradshaw was a mediocre QB and that's being generous.

Terry Bradshaw is a former league MVP, (that's a regular season MVP, not one of his two SB MVPs), who had an ANY/A+ (Adjusted Net Yards per Attempt, normalized to league average), of 110+ in six out of seven seasons from 1975 to 1982. He was second-team all-decade in the '70s, (shared with Stabler and behind Staubach, but above Griese and Tarkenton).

Bradshaw is a mediocre *HALL OF FAME* quarterback, (although I think that description is apt rather than generous). But he's still one of the top 30 quarterbacks to ever play the game, even if he falls closer to the back of that list than the front.

Edit to add: A comparison of Bradshaw's statistics to Kurt Warner's, who I'm sure most would agree was-- at least statistically-- a very impressive quarterback.

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Manning hands down. The only reason people say Brady is because Brady has 4 rings while Manning only has 2. Folks forget that two of Brady's rings should never have happened. His first ring was because of the infamous "tuck rule" where a clear and obvious Brady fumble was ruled to be an incomplete pass! His fourth ring was because Pete Carroll went brain dead and decided to have Russell Wilson throw a pass at the goal line instead of running Marshawn Lynch!

Tommy Boy ain't all that! He really ain't nuttin but a poser. I'm glad he got booed yesterday.

This is a stupid excuse, if the Giants don't have two of the greatest catches in super bowl history the Pats are 6 - 0 , If Peyton didn't have the Colts D carry him through the playoffs in 06 and the Broncos 15 he has 0, but that isn't the case good and bad breaks and mistakes happen every game. The fact is Brady has 4 and Manning has 2. That isn't why I think Brady is better.

:no:

Manning played one good half against the Patriots and an okay Super bowl that year.

Here are Manning stats for that postseason

Peyton Manning IND 2006 4 97 153 1034 3 7 70.5

Here are the 4 games

Colts vs. Chiefs

Colts held the Chiefs without a first down the entire first half, The Colts forced 3 turnovers and had 4 sacks.and held the Chiefs to 126 total yards. Manning also threw 3 picks

Colts vs Ravens

Colts defense held them to 13 total first downs, 244 total yards 4 turnovers and 2 sacks. Manning threw 2 more picks and had 170 yards passing

Colts vs Patriots

This is the game that Manning led the comeback against the Pats and the defense played okay, they did force a couple of fumbles and picked off Brady to seal the game, but they gave up 27 points.

Colts vs Bears

Manning played okay, but the defense forced 3 more turnovers and scored on one and allowed only 10 points.

Please tell me how they didn't carry him through the playoffs

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Manning hands down. The only reason people say Brady is because Brady has 4 rings while Manning only has 2. Folks forget that two of Brady's rings should never have happened. His first ring was because of the infamous "tuck rule" where a clear and obvious Brady fumble was ruled to be an incomplete pass! His fourth ring was because Pete Carroll went brain dead and decided to have Russell Wilson throw a pass at the goal line instead of running Marshawn Lynch!

Tommy Boy ain't all that! He really ain't nuttin but a poser. I'm glad he got booed yesterday.

This is a stupid excuse, if the Giants don't have two of the greatest catches in super bowl history the Pats are 6 - 0 , If Peyton didn't have the Colts D carry him through the playoffs in 06 and the Broncos 15 he has 0, but that isn't the case good and bad breaks and mistakes happen every game. The fact is Brady has 4 and Manning has 2. That isn't why I think Brady is better.

:no:

Manning played one good half against the Patriots and an okay Super bowl that year.

Here are Manning stats for that postseason

Peyton Manning IND 2006 4 97 153 1034 3 7 70.5

Here are the 4 games

Colts vs. Chiefs

Colts held the Chiefs without a first down the entire first half, The Colts forced 3 turnovers and had 4 sacks.and held the Chiefs to 126 total yards. Manning also threw 3 picks

Colts vs Ravens

Colts defense held them to 13 total first downs, 244 total yards 4 turnovers and 2 sacks. Manning threw 2 more picks and had 170 yards passing

Colts vs Patriots

This is the game that Manning led the comeback against the Pats and the defense played okay, they did force a couple of fumbles and picked off Brady to seal the game, but they gave up 27 points.

Colts vs Bears

Manning played okay, but the defense forced 3 more turnovers and scored on one and allowed only 10 points.

Please tell me how they didn't carry him through the playoffs

I won't argue against the defense carrying that team for much of the playoffs but two things stand out. 1) I think you are underselling what Manning did vs New England in the second half, he passed for a TD, ran a TD, converted a 2pt conversion and led the team to 32 offensive points. He was huge in that game. 2) Baltimore, New England & Chicago were the #1, #2 & #3 scoring defenses; #1, #6, & #5 yardage defenses; #1, #2 & #4 in forcing Turnovers. By any measure that was a murderer's row of defenses Indy had to go through to win that Super Bowl.

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Manning hands down. The only reason people say Brady is because Brady has 4 rings while Manning only has 2. Folks forget that two of Brady's rings should never have happened. His first ring was because of the infamous "tuck rule" where a clear and obvious Brady fumble was ruled to be an incomplete pass! His fourth ring was because Pete Carroll went brain dead and decided to have Russell Wilson throw a pass at the goal line instead of running Marshawn Lynch!

Tommy Boy ain't all that! He really ain't nuttin but a poser. I'm glad he got booed yesterday.

This is a stupid excuse, if the Giants don't have two of the greatest catches in super bowl history the Pats are 6 - 0 , If Peyton didn't have the Colts D carry him through the playoffs in 06 and the Broncos 15 he has 0, but that isn't the case good and bad breaks and mistakes happen every game. The fact is Brady has 4 and Manning has 2. That isn't why I think Brady is better.

:no:

Manning played one good half against the Patriots and an okay Super bowl that year.

Here are Manning stats for that postseason

Peyton Manning IND 2006 4 97 153 1034 3 7 70.5

Here are the 4 games

Colts vs. Chiefs

Colts held the Chiefs without a first down the entire first half, The Colts forced 3 turnovers and had 4 sacks.and held the Chiefs to 126 total yards. Manning also threw 3 picks

Colts vs Ravens

Colts defense held them to 13 total first downs, 244 total yards 4 turnovers and 2 sacks. Manning threw 2 more picks and had 170 yards passing

Colts vs Patriots

This is the game that Manning led the comeback against the Pats and the defense played okay, they did force a couple of fumbles and picked off Brady to seal the game, but they gave up 27 points.

Colts vs Bears

Manning played okay, but the defense forced 3 more turnovers and scored on one and allowed only 10 points.

Please tell me how they didn't carry him through the playoffs

I won't argue against the defense carrying that team for much of the playoffs but two things stand out. 1) I think you are underselling what Manning did vs New England in the second half, he passed for a TD, ran a TD, converted a 2pt conversion and led the team to 32 offensive points. He was huge in that game. 2) Baltimore, New England & Chicago were the #1, #2 & #3 scoring defenses; #1, #6, & #5 yardage defenses; #1, #2 & #4 in forcing Turnovers. By any measure that was a murderer's row of defenses Indy had to go through to win that Super Bowl.

In my head I wasn't under selling Manning in the 2nd half against New England. I put he played good, I put that because he was a main reason why they were down 18 in the 1st half, but he was brilliant in the 2nd half, maybe I should have said he was great. He went up against some great defenses that year, but his play in the first 2 games shouldn't have gotten him a 3rd game in the playoffs that year. If he had the same type of game he had against the Bears against the Chiefs and Ravens I wouldn't and I think many people wouldn't have said his defense carried him in those playoffs.

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Manning hands down. The only reason people say Brady is because Brady has 4 rings while Manning only has 2. Folks forget that two of Brady's rings should never have happened. His first ring was because of the infamous "tuck rule" where a clear and obvious Brady fumble was ruled to be an incomplete pass! His fourth ring was because Pete Carroll went brain dead and decided to have Russell Wilson throw a pass at the goal line instead of running Marshawn Lynch!

Tommy Boy ain't all that! He really ain't nuttin but a poser. I'm glad he got booed yesterday.

This is a stupid excuse, if the Giants don't have two of the greatest catches in super bowl history the Pats are 6 - 0 , If Peyton didn't have the Colts D carry him through the playoffs in 06 and the Broncos 15 he has 0, but that isn't the case good and bad breaks and mistakes happen every game. The fact is Brady has 4 and Manning has 2. That isn't why I think Brady is better.

:no:

Manning played one good half against the Patriots and an okay Super bowl that year.

Here are Manning stats for that postseason

Peyton Manning IND 2006 4 97 153 1034 3 7 70.5

Here are the 4 games

Colts vs. Chiefs

Colts held the Chiefs without a first down the entire first half, The Colts forced 3 turnovers and had 4 sacks.and held the Chiefs to 126 total yards. Manning also threw 3 picks

Colts vs Ravens

Colts defense held them to 13 total first downs, 244 total yards 4 turnovers and 2 sacks. Manning threw 2 more picks and had 170 yards passing

Colts vs Patriots

This is the game that Manning led the comeback against the Pats and the defense played okay, they did force a couple of fumbles and picked off Brady to seal the game, but they gave up 27 points.

Colts vs Bears

Manning played okay, but the defense forced 3 more turnovers and scored on one and allowed only 10 points.

Please tell me how they didn't carry him through the playoffs

I won't argue against the defense carrying that team for much of the playoffs but two things stand out. 1) I think you are underselling what Manning did vs New England in the second half, he passed for a TD, ran a TD, converted a 2pt conversion and led the team to 32 offensive points. He was huge in that game. 2) Baltimore, New England & Chicago were the #1, #2 & #3 scoring defenses; #1, #6, & #5 yardage defenses; #1, #2 & #4 in forcing Turnovers. By any measure that was a murderer's row of defenses Indy had to go through to win that Super Bowl.

In my head I wasn't under selling Manning in the 2nd half against New England. I put he played good, I put that because he was a main reason why they were down 18 in the 1st half, but he was brilliant in the 2nd half, maybe I should have said he was great. He went up against some great defenses that year, but his play in the first 2 games shouldn't have gotten him a 3rd game in the playoffs that year. If he had the same type of game he had against the Bears against the Chiefs and Ravens I wouldn't and I think many people wouldn't have said his defense carried him in those playoffs.

Did the D carry him through the playoffs, or just the first 2 games? Sounds like you've said both.

The run game is what made the difference in the Colts/Chiefs game. Yes, Colts' D forced turnovers, but, as you stated, so did the Chiefs' D. How, then, did the Colts win the game 23-8 with only a +1 TO margin and no defensive TDs? It's partially because Addai and Rhodes combined for 190 yards on a 5.0 YPC average while the Chiefs were held under 3.0 YPC. Despite the 3 INTs, Manning was still 30-38 for 268 and a TD. Not the best game of his career, but respectable numbers other than the INTs.

As noted above, Baltimore had a great D that season. They'd only given up 20+ points 4 times that year, and they'd forced multiple turnovers every game except for 2 (in which they only forced 1).

In the Pats game, Peyton only had 1 turnover, for a pick 6, and the defense gave up 27 additional points....but the D carried Peyton through the playoffs? His line that game was 27-47-349-1-1. The only time the Pats gave up more than 23 points all season was when the Colts scored 27 on them; then they put 38 in the playoffs. That was a very good D, and they got lit up the 2nd half.

In the SB, they again ran the ball very well.

So....yeah, that's how I can say that the D didn't carry him through the playoffs.

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Manning hands down. The only reason people say Brady is because Brady has 4 rings while Manning only has 2. Folks forget that two of Brady's rings should never have happened. His first ring was because of the infamous "tuck rule" where a clear and obvious Brady fumble was ruled to be an incomplete pass! His fourth ring was because Pete Carroll went brain dead and decided to have Russell Wilson throw a pass at the goal line instead of running Marshawn Lynch!

Tommy Boy ain't all that! He really ain't nuttin but a poser. I'm glad he got booed yesterday.

This is a stupid excuse, if the Giants don't have two of the greatest catches in super bowl history the Pats are 6 - 0 , If Peyton didn't have the Colts D carry him through the playoffs in 06 and the Broncos 15 he has 0, but that isn't the case good and bad breaks and mistakes happen every game. The fact is Brady has 4 and Manning has 2. That isn't why I think Brady is better.

:no:

Manning played one good half against the Patriots and an okay Super bowl that year.

Here are Manning stats for that postseason

Peyton Manning IND 2006 4 97 153 1034 3 7 70.5

Here are the 4 games

Colts vs. Chiefs

Colts held the Chiefs without a first down the entire first half, The Colts forced 3 turnovers and had 4 sacks.and held the Chiefs to 126 total yards. Manning also threw 3 picks

Colts vs Ravens

Colts defense held them to 13 total first downs, 244 total yards 4 turnovers and 2 sacks. Manning threw 2 more picks and had 170 yards passing

Colts vs Patriots

This is the game that Manning led the comeback against the Pats and the defense played okay, they did force a couple of fumbles and picked off Brady to seal the game, but they gave up 27 points.

Colts vs Bears

Manning played okay, but the defense forced 3 more turnovers and scored on one and allowed only 10 points.

Please tell me how they didn't carry him through the playoffs

I won't argue against the defense carrying that team for much of the playoffs but two things stand out. 1) I think you are underselling what Manning did vs New England in the second half, he passed for a TD, ran a TD, converted a 2pt conversion and led the team to 32 offensive points. He was huge in that game. 2) Baltimore, New England & Chicago were the #1, #2 & #3 scoring defenses; #1, #6, & #5 yardage defenses; #1, #2 & #4 in forcing Turnovers. By any measure that was a murderer's row of defenses Indy had to go through to win that Super Bowl.

In my head I wasn't under selling Manning in the 2nd half against New England. I put he played good, I put that because he was a main reason why they were down 18 in the 1st half, but he was brilliant in the 2nd half, maybe I should have said he was great. He went up against some great defenses that year, but his play in the first 2 games shouldn't have gotten him a 3rd game in the playoffs that year. If he had the same type of game he had against the Bears against the Chiefs and Ravens I wouldn't and I think many people wouldn't have said his defense carried him in those playoffs.

Did the D carry him through the playoffs, or just the first 2 games? Sounds like you've said both.

The run game is what made the difference in the Colts/Chiefs game. Yes, Colts' D forced turnovers, but, as you stated, so did the Chiefs' D. How, then, did the Colts win the game 23-8 with only a +1 TO margin and no defensive TDs? It's partially because Addai and Rhodes combined for 190 yards on a 5.0 YPC average while the Chiefs were held under 3.0 YPC. Despite the 3 INTs, Manning was still 30-38 for 268 and a TD. Not the best game of his career, but respectable numbers other than the INTs.

As noted above, Baltimore had a great D that season. They'd only given up 20+ points 4 times that year, and they'd forced multiple turnovers every game except for 2 (in which they only forced 1).

In the Pats game, Peyton only had 1 turnover, for a pick 6, and the defense gave up 27 additional points....but the D carried Peyton through the playoffs? His line that game was 27-47-349-1-1. The only time the Pats gave up more than 23 points all season was when the Colts scored 27 on them; then they put 38 in the playoffs. That was a very good D, and they got lit up the 2nd half.

In the SB, they again ran the ball very well.

So....yeah, that's how I can say that the D didn't carry him through the playoffs.

No I didn't say both, you are trying to twist my words while I was answering another post.

For the sake of myself and everyone else this is the last time I will do this little dance with you.

The defense carried his ### through the playoffs except the New England game, which he was great in the 2nd half, and the Super Bowl he was okay, but once again the defense was great.

So to recap it. The defense was great 3 out of 4 games

Peyton was good 1/2 out of 4 games.

The running game was good in the playoffs too.

Peyton was probably the the 4th or 5th reason why they won in the playoffs that year, all you want to hang your hat on is the New England game, they wouldn't have been there without the defense, Peyton's play in those 1st two games of the playoffs was the play of a very bad and losing quarterback. Peyton is still great, an all time great, but his defense carried him to the title 2 times in his career, who cares he still has 2 titles. Now get over it.

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Manning hands down. The only reason people say Brady is because Brady has 4 rings while Manning only has 2. Folks forget that two of Brady's rings should never have happened. His first ring was because of the infamous "tuck rule" where a clear and obvious Brady fumble was ruled to be an incomplete pass! His fourth ring was because Pete Carroll went brain dead and decided to have Russell Wilson throw a pass at the goal line instead of running Marshawn Lynch!

Tommy Boy ain't all that! He really ain't nuttin but a poser. I'm glad he got booed yesterday.

This is a stupid excuse, if the Giants don't have two of the greatest catches in super bowl history the Pats are 6 - 0 , If Peyton didn't have the Colts D carry him through the playoffs in 06 and the Broncos 15 he has 0, but that isn't the case good and bad breaks and mistakes happen every game. The fact is Brady has 4 and Manning has 2. That isn't why I think Brady is better.

:no:

Manning played one good half against the Patriots and an okay Super bowl that year.

Here are Manning stats for that postseason

Peyton Manning IND 2006 4 97 153 1034 3 7 70.5

Here are the 4 games

Colts vs. Chiefs

Colts held the Chiefs without a first down the entire first half, The Colts forced 3 turnovers and had 4 sacks.and held the Chiefs to 126 total yards. Manning also threw 3 picks

Colts vs Ravens

Colts defense held them to 13 total first downs, 244 total yards 4 turnovers and 2 sacks. Manning threw 2 more picks and had 170 yards passing

Colts vs Patriots

This is the game that Manning led the comeback against the Pats and the defense played okay, they did force a couple of fumbles and picked off Brady to seal the game, but they gave up 27 points.

Colts vs Bears

Manning played okay, but the defense forced 3 more turnovers and scored on one and allowed only 10 points.

Please tell me how they didn't carry him through the playoffs

I won't argue against the defense carrying that team for much of the playoffs but two things stand out. 1) I think you are underselling what Manning did vs New England in the second half, he passed for a TD, ran a TD, converted a 2pt conversion and led the team to 32 offensive points. He was huge in that game. 2) Baltimore, New England & Chicago were the #1, #2 & #3 scoring defenses; #1, #6, & #5 yardage defenses; #1, #2 & #4 in forcing Turnovers. By any measure that was a murderer's row of defenses Indy had to go through to win that Super Bowl.

In my head I wasn't under selling Manning in the 2nd half against New England. I put he played good, I put that because he was a main reason why they were down 18 in the 1st half, but he was brilliant in the 2nd half, maybe I should have said he was great. He went up against some great defenses that year, but his play in the first 2 games shouldn't have gotten him a 3rd game in the playoffs that year. If he had the same type of game he had against the Bears against the Chiefs and Ravens I wouldn't and I think many people wouldn't have said his defense carried him in those playoffs.

Did the D carry him through the playoffs, or just the first 2 games? Sounds like you've said both.

The run game is what made the difference in the Colts/Chiefs game. Yes, Colts' D forced turnovers, but, as you stated, so did the Chiefs' D. How, then, did the Colts win the game 23-8 with only a +1 TO margin and no defensive TDs? It's partially because Addai and Rhodes combined for 190 yards on a 5.0 YPC average while the Chiefs were held under 3.0 YPC. Despite the 3 INTs, Manning was still 30-38 for 268 and a TD. Not the best game of his career, but respectable numbers other than the INTs.

As noted above, Baltimore had a great D that season. They'd only given up 20+ points 4 times that year, and they'd forced multiple turnovers every game except for 2 (in which they only forced 1).

In the Pats game, Peyton only had 1 turnover, for a pick 6, and the defense gave up 27 additional points....but the D carried Peyton through the playoffs? His line that game was 27-47-349-1-1. The only time the Pats gave up more than 23 points all season was when the Colts scored 27 on them; then they put 38 in the playoffs. That was a very good D, and they got lit up the 2nd half.

In the SB, they again ran the ball very well.

So....yeah, that's how I can say that the D didn't carry him through the playoffs.

No I didn't say both, you are trying to twist my words while I was answering another post.

For the sake of myself and everyone else this is the last time I will do this little dance with you.

The defense carried his ### through the playoffs except the New England game, which he was great in the 2nd half, and the Super Bowl he was okay, but once again the defense was great.

So to recap it. The defense was great 3 out of 4 games

Peyton was good 1/2 out of 4 games.

The running game was good in the playoffs too.

Peyton was probably the the 4th or 5th reason why they won in the playoffs that year, all you want to hang your hat on is the New England game, they wouldn't have been there without the defense, Peyton's play in those 1st two games of the playoffs was the play of a very bad and losing quarterback. Peyton is still great, an all time great, but his defense carried him to the title 2 times in his career, who cares he still has 2 titles. Now get over it.

You are welcome to throw a fit, but that doesn't make you right.

FTR, I never said he played great, just that you are incorrect to say that the D carried him through the playoffs. The D definitely helped them win games, but the offense still had to produce. Nobody is saying that Peyton had the greatest postseason ever, but you are painting the picture that he was more of a detriment than an aid, and that the D was responsible for the championship, both of which are far from the truth.

Heck, even in the Ravens game there were 5 scoring drives by the offense, they just ended in FGs instead of TDs. I guess Vinateri "carried" yet another QB to a championship, right? (That ? is rhetorical since you've already said you are taking your ball and going home.)

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PFT had an interesting note today...

"Brady, Eli, Peyton have identical postseason passer ratings

Tom Brady, Eli Manning and Peyton Manning have decidedly different reputations for playoff performance, and yet their postseason statistics are strikingly similar.

In fact, heading into Sunday’s AFC Championship Game, Brady has a career postseason passer rating of 87.4. That happens to be exactly the same career postseason passer rating as both Manning brothers.

The three players are tied for 15th in NFL history in career postseason passer rating.

Brady is often described as the most “clutch” passer in NFL history, Peyton is often described as the greatest regular-season passer but largely a postseason disappointment, and Eli is often described as a player who has delivered his best performances in the biggest games. There may be less to that than meets the eye, however: We remember Brady as having a great playoff game when he passed his team into field goal range and Adam Vinatieri makes it, while we remember Peyton as having a bad playoff game when he passed his team into field goal range and Mike Vanderjagt missed it.

As far as the NFL’s official passer rating stat is concerned, the three are equals in the postseason."

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3 hours ago, trader jake said:

PFT had an interesting note today...

"Brady, Eli, Peyton have identical postseason passer ratings

Tom Brady, Eli Manning and Peyton Manning have decidedly different reputations for playoff performance, and yet their postseason statistics are strikingly similar.

In fact, heading into Sunday’s AFC Championship Game, Brady has a career postseason passer rating of 87.4. That happens to be exactly the same career postseason passer rating as both Manning brothers.

The three players are tied for 15th in NFL history in career postseason passer rating.

Brady is often described as the most “clutch” passer in NFL history, Peyton is often described as the greatest regular-season passer but largely a postseason disappointment, and Eli is often described as a player who has delivered his best performances in the biggest games. There may be less to that than meets the eye, however: We remember Brady as having a great playoff game when he passed his team into field goal range and Adam Vinatieri makes it, while we remember Peyton as having a bad playoff game when he passed his team into field goal range and Mike Vanderjagt missed it.

As far as the NFL’s official passer rating stat is concerned, the three are equals in the postseason."

While interesting I'll trust what I see with my own eyes rather than some stat that no one understands.

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4 hours ago, Tool said:

While interesting I'll trust what I see with my own eyes rather than some stat that no one understands.

My eyes tell me that Peyton is the best QB of the 3.       :shrug: 

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I'm not even trying to to be funny.  I didn't know this was still a debate.

 

Brady = GOAT

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2 minutes ago, dansav said:

I'm not even trying to to be funny.  I didn't know this was still a debate.

 

Brady = GOAT

Well you're a Patriots fan so of course it's not........

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11 minutes ago, fred_1_15301 said:

Well you're a Patriots fan so of course it's not........

I'm a fan of the game.  Many current and previous players along with coaches and analysts agree Brady is the best.

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1 hour ago, dansav said:

I'm a fan of the game.  Many current and previous players along with coaches and analysts agree Brady is the best.

And many disagree. Regardless of which you choose, if you don't think it's a debate, it's a clear sign of your bias.

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Who is better right now?  I'd say Brady by just a hair.  I say that because Manning has been out of the game for a year and is probably quite rusty.

 

 

 

Brady cheated

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I guess I'm in the minority of Pats fans when it comes to Brady because why I think he is a better QB than Peyton I don't get all that caught up in GOAT discussions. Honestly, I don't get why people get riled up about it. I like my team winning Super Bowls and everything else doesn't matter. It can make for fun discussion I guess but irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. 

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8 hours ago, fred_1_15301 said:

My eyes tell me that Peyton is the best QB of the 3.       :shrug: 

We're talking specifically about the post season here.

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6 hours ago, Pots said:

And many disagree. Regardless of which you choose, if you don't think it's a debate, it's a clear sign of your bias.

Exactly this

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22 minutes ago, Tool said:

We're talking specifically about the post season here.

I think even that is debatable but I know I'll receive some backlash on that.  

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Brady over Manning. If I had one QB for one game, a whole season or the playoffs, it would be Brady each time.

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The people who are right say I'm right and I can't believe it's a debate 

The people who are wrong say some people agree with me, it's obviously a debate.

Climate change deniers, flat earthers and Manning supporters all provide valuable skepticism of things that are already pretty much proven. Don't make fun of them.

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17 minutes ago, Gandalf said:

Brady over Manning. If I had one QB for one game, a whole season or the playoffs, it would be Brady each time.

In the Brady vs. Manning discussion I agree, but the way that Rodgers has played the last few years I think I might take Rodgers.

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3 hours ago, msudaisy26 said:

In the Brady vs. Manning discussion I agree, but the way that Rodgers has played the last few years I think I might take Rodgers.

Rodgers is a more talented QB for sure (arm strength and mobility outside the pocket). Brady is a better pocket QB and we have seen what he has done over his career....

Wes Welker was a back up punt returner in Miami before he came here.  Stud.

Edelman is a converted QB now playing slot receiver at a high level.

D.  Branch was a great here and went to Seattle to never be heard of again.

The list goes on and on....  Troy Brown, David Givens, David Patten, Donte Stallworth.

Yes he had Moss for a couple of years and gronk as well (missed a lot of games with injury)

Rodgers would have to play out of his mind the rest of his career to go down as the GOAT (which is possible).

Imagine if Brady or Rodgers had Wayne, Harrison and Clark their entire career.  Jeez

 

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Early in Brady's career when he was thought to be more of a game manager than in conversation for GOAT I was arguing passionately with friends of mine that Brady was better. This was in SEC country and they acted like I was crazy, little did we know this would end up as one of biggest sports debates of next 10-15 years.  I just felt even early on that Brady's composure in the pocket was rare, that was the trait of his that stood out early to me.

To me the Brady vs Peyton debate is over and Brady won.

The debate for GOAT will always be a debate however. It's hard enough to compare era's but people can't even agree who is the best QB today, which for me is Rodgers.

 

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