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Well the difference between what you're talking about, and what I'm talking about is that you can watch any Pats game to see what I'm talking about. Whereas yours is something no one could ever prove...
Uh, Garcon is still playing dude. And he caught 113 passes last year. For the ####### Redskins!
He had 1000 and 8 with a washed up Kerry Collins in 2005. Do you have any idea who the Raiders trotted out at qb in 2006?
What argument are you trying to make here? That exploiting one teams defense (like Manning and Brady) is somehow less impressive than Favreing a ball down the field blindfolded?
Cause both of their offenses play the same way...
How this is not a factor to you just shows how blind you are.
Best playoff record, best non-divisional record, pick a team record - probably have the best.
So, 62 yards per game, and 1 touchdown every 2 weeks, is.... What, good?If you can't at least acknowledged the difference Brady made at that point in Randy Moss's career, then I can't help you. I watched every second of that 2007 season and Randy Moss was like a kid in a candy shop. Every time he broke open he'd turn around to see a perfectly placed ball right in his lap. Remember that pass to win the game against the Giants in week 17? That was pretty good wasn't it. It was a whole season of those passes, which led to the best season a WR has ever had. There has never been an example of a Quarterback single-handedly changing the fortunes of a WR. Ever.
You seem to be suffering from amnesia.
Well, it was better than what any Patriot WR did in 2004 or 2005 or 2006 so yeah, I would say that is good. Yeah, Brady was a welcome change for Moss. Let's not act like it wasn't a 2 way street there.
I seem to remember Starks having a very good post season that year Green Bay won.
Fair enough. Just further proves my point that SB wins does not come with great QB play. It comes with defense and a balanced offense. So to count SB wins as a measuring stick for QB play is silly.
It would be ironic (or more accurately, "coincidental") if the NFL didn't follow a strict scheduling formula. Teams know their future opponents and home/away sites, with the exception of two teams, all the way through at least 2019.
Look, I have no preference either way in this debate. I like both QB's. but it's just not accurate to say that Brady has had better weapons to work with. His very best arsenal was anchored by Randy Moss, during years 10-12 of a career that had been spiralling downward, while Manning had the best years of two Hall of Fame WR's in Harrison and Wayne. There are great arguments to make pointing to Manning being the better QB, but the "Brady had better weapons" slant isn't one of them. It's actually an argument that highlights Brady's greatness, because he has had to make meatloaf most of his career.
This was the story. A new book is coming out that brings to light things I never heard--such as Brady having a special helmet with a microphone from the coaches. Like I said, easy to "read" the defense if someone else is doing it for you from a better vantage point and knowing what the defense is because you heard them call it with your spying. I know NE fans don't want to hear this, but the rest of us can't ignore these kinds of considerations. Is it a coincidence they haven't won a SB since?
First, to the op, the "system" is Brady and to suggest otherwise is just silly, same with Manning; the "system" works because you have hof qbs running them. FTR, Manning had the same OC ("system") for virtually his entire career, a luxury brady has not enjoyed.
I don't think I ever made the argument Brady had better weapons overall. I think they both have had some good, some bleh and some great weapons. Manning's have been more consistently the same guys.
I'm normally irked that so many people in this country will believe any type of conspiracy BS like this, nevermind a guy who goes by the name Arizona Professor. It's become a cottage industry to prey on the naivety of the American public. But in this case it's pretty comical. Check out the actual words in the link to this journalistic masterpiece.nypost.com/2014/10/12/they-are-cheaters-spygate-the-nfl-scandal-that-started-it-all
ha. I didn't even mean that. I was just giving a generic demaryius example and added the Tebow bit after. Good memory though and well played sir. My point want even that Thomas is a transcendantal talent. I'm not sure he is. I'm certain that a non trivial portion of his fantasy success is due to manning, just like Wayne had 1355 yards with manning, dropped under 1k with painter, and then had 1355 again in luck's rookie year.
How so? Please explain why it's such an awful logic. So Manning has played 3 more years than Brady and has more TDs and more yards, but a worse playoff record, constantly chokes in big games, and only one SB ring and that somehow makes him better?? ...lolBy this awful logic, Trent Dilfer was a better QB than Dan Marino.
In the age of the fantasy world, too many just look at the raw stats. Manning had some good stats yesterday...but the scoreboard is what matters.
Both great QB's, but Brady has the intangibles that sets him apart. Switch QBs yesterday with Brady Qbing Denver, any doubt who wins the game?
not a doubt in my mind that the QB playing for Belichick in Foxboro wins yesterdays game.
Yeah, I am thinking whoever says that obviously didn't see last year's AFCCG. Neither is the other's beotch. The QB with the better team usually wins, especially when they are at home.
Yes and yes. Couple these facts with the reality that Manning had the luxury of having one offensive coordinator for the first thirteen years of his career and...This line gets me every time.Which system is that? The run heavy short pass system of the early 2000s? The move the ball any way possible system of the Doug Gabriel/Reche Caldwell era? The vertical threat Moss era? The 2 TE system with Gronk & the killer? Or the current all new receivers "system"?
The "Brady is a system QB" is one of the most laughable characterizations of Brady's career. New England's personnel philosophy has created skill position groupings that have VERY different skill sets from year to year. The offense morphs to utilize the available skillset of the players they have. The only system I see in NE is Brady being capable of shifting his offensive system to fit the personnel as well as any QB of the modern era.
Some of that is coaching, and some of it is Brady's ability execute different offensive schemes at a high level. But to put Brady's success on the NE system is, IMO, getting it backwards. NE can manage their personnel decisions and bring in the types of players they do because they have a QB than can make it work.I can't recall a QB that has been more versatile in terms of playing in different systems, and Brady has excelled at all of them. As for giving BB credit, lets not forget that Bill coached 5 years at Cleveland, had a losing overall record, and only had 1 winning season out of 5. Manning seems like the type of player that gets smaller as the moment gets bigger. There are several QBs I would take over Manning to win a big game. Peyton's super bowl playoff run was largely won by his defense as Manning threw 3 TDs and 7 INTs in the 2006s playoffs, resulting in his only super bowl win.
Because he is. It's pretty simple to see. Sounds like someone's just a little salty after yesterday's loss
So your "proof" is to label it a conspiracy 'theory' (ignoring the fact that the NFL investigated, fined the team, and destroyed the evidence...). Your argument is also to launch ad hominem attacks against me--nice. No actual rebuttal.
In less than a year you've forgotten that Russell Willson and Percy Harvin combined for more rushing yardage than the Seahawk RB's in Super Bowl 48. Marshawn Lynch, for as great as he played last season, was anything but beastly against an excellent Broncos run D.Wilson flat out balled in that game; Manning bawled.
You're the last person here that should be talking about credibility gained/lost in this thread.
Look BB is great hc, but his defs have not been dominant for a long, long time.
Wayne performed just fine without Manning. His first year with Luck was practically identical to his last year with Manning (he nearly broke 1K yards with Painter and others). Moss was considered washed up before Brady - his ADP that year was 42nd behind WRs like Javon Walker, Housh, Roy Williams, and Boldin. Welker was a nobody on in Miami, great in NE, and now playing back at Miami levels in Denver. Then there are guys like Branch who get huge contracts but don't do anything anywhere other than NE. i am just saying that if Manning makes the WR then so does Brady.
LOL. I guess we've entered the "just start making #### up" portion of the debate.
Read through the thread before you post something that's already been spouted off a million times. Cassel has been a successful QB outside of NE, so this logic is quite flawed.
the whole "not play well in the cold" is overdone. The fact of the matter is for most of Mannings career, playing outdoors is a surrogate for "on the road" and in the cold is a surrogate for "on the road in the playoffs".
conversely, when manning took over a 3-13 team, he led them to a 3-13 record the following year. When Brady took over a 5-11 team, he led them to an 11-3 record the rest of the way and won a superbowl.
Actually the Colts were 2-14 while sucking for Luck, and the "worst team in the NFL" was 11-5 the next year with a rookie QB.
Luck's Colts were a completely different team, but the Colts went 2-14 with nearly the same roster they had the previous season. The Colts players were trying to win that year, it was Irsay who refused to get a decent QB so he could draft Luck.
Manning was a rookie thrown to the wolves on a bad team. Brady settled into a team that forced 41 turnovers during his starts and only had to throw for 300 yards 1 time. He was under 200 yards 10 times that year. The Patriots were led by a great defense.
Hey Moleculo,
