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**** OFFICIAL **** LOST - The TV Series (2 Viewers)
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Sack-Religious.
Footballguy
Buckychudd
Footballguy
Sure, but 10-15 against 40+? And some of the 40 have military/police training as well (and others like Echo/Locke are very capable in some other way). The others could expect to lose at least half their number, if not get wiped out completely in a direct frontal assault. Perhaps they lost too many assaulting the tailies already.Anyhow, I don't think the others want to wipe out the survivors. The survivors have been brought here for a reason.....we're just not sure why yet.
(HULK)
(Smash)
New thought about why Henry came to the Losties.
He's not a plant. He expected to get found out. He even put the bug in Jack and Locke's heads about trading him for another person.
What I'm speculating is that the others WANT to trade Gale for Walt.
Because Walt has been brainwashed, and Walt will be the perfect mole.
He's not a plant. He expected to get found out. He even put the bug in Jack and Locke's heads about trading him for another person.
What I'm speculating is that the others WANT to trade Gale for Walt.
Because Walt has been brainwashed, and Walt will be the perfect mole.
Magic Nose Goblins
Footballguy
Looks like the same guy to me
Sweeper
Footballguy
Well we know that the others can manuver around the island without being detected. We know that they killed or kidnapped most 13-15 of the "tailes", so I feel confident in thinking that the "others", if they really wanted, could take out the survivors.
Now ... back to "HIM" that Henry mentioned.
I reacall that Ethan, during Clair's flashback was pulled out of the Nursery by the "bearded man" and he was reprimanding Ethan becuase he did not "Make the List of them" and that "HE" would be very disappointed.
I think it is safe to assume that Ethan was there for 2 things. One, to get clair and 2 to make that list of the survivors, similar to the one that the "tailies" found on the other that Ecko killed.
But now we are seeing multiple references to "HIM" by the others.
Now ... back to "HIM" that Henry mentioned.
I reacall that Ethan, during Clair's flashback was pulled out of the Nursery by the "bearded man" and he was reprimanding Ethan becuase he did not "Make the List of them" and that "HE" would be very disappointed.
I think it is safe to assume that Ethan was there for 2 things. One, to get clair and 2 to make that list of the survivors, similar to the one that the "tailies" found on the other that Ecko killed.
But now we are seeing multiple references to "HIM" by the others.
I agree with some of your thoughts. I don't think Henry was a plant, but I do think that he was telling the truth after he was found out.This goes back to some of my posts before where for some reason I ignored Sayid/Rousseaus telling us (the viewers) that Henry was an Other. I just thought that the writers were trying to trick us, but they usually do not do this. Thus, I take the "I am not lying anymore" line from Henry at face value. I think that was the writers cue to us that what he said was true.
So, if we take what he said to be true then he also told Locke that this hatch was nothing. The way he said that meant to me that the Others do know that the hatch was just some sort of psych expirement and is nothing compared to what is present in other parts of the island. That is why I don't think he was a plant to find out about the hatch.
Also, I think the most important thing that Henry said was about Zeke not being important either and the leader. As packersfan and someone else alluded to this "He" that we don't know is very powerful to make Zeke and Henry worried. There were some posts about it during Claire's epsiode based on Zeke and Ethan's conversation, but that seemed more like a worried about your boss conversation whereas Henry was legitimately fearing for his life.
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PC Load Letter
Irregardless.
Anyone think Henry could have used the computer to contact the Others?
M
mojorizin
Guest
I must have missed something somewhere. The Others arent just another tribe of people hanging out picking coconuts here, right. Certainly they for some reason spend days getting grubbed up and unshaven just to make an appearance like they are when making a foray into Lostie camp, but when we see Claire at the facility, everyone's wearing Khakis and sportshirts, etc. I'm pretty certain Robinson Crusoe wouldnt have energy fields and shields (was I high or did I see Jack or Sawyer take a shot at the old bearded dude and it bounce of some field?), a lab and all sorts of hightech mumbo jumbo. They only make an assault for experimental reasons near as I can tell. They might kill or kidnap someone, but something tells me its because they need to control the experiment/subjects in some way.
I don't.Like Hulk, I just think this hatch is just a psych expirement and has no real purpose. I don't think that computer is anything other than an old POS to enter numbers on.
I think Michael talking to Walt was a vision/mind projection/etc. because we saw Jack walk around behind Michael and there was nothing on the screen.
Also, I believe Henry's discussion with Locke since the writers put that "I'm done lying" line, and he said that this hatch was nothing and the numbers did nothing.
Sack-Religious.
Footballguy
A drugged up 9 month pregnant girl escaped them. Why couldn't a 12 year old kid? Assuming that the "Alex" that brought out Kate during the "line in the sand" meeting is the same Alex that helped free Claire, there appears to have been no great consequences suffered. Based on Zeke and Henry's fear of "Him" you'd think that if one of them was found to have aided a Lostie there would be severe repercussions. Unless Claire's been an unwitting plant since her return?
Agreed that it allows Henry to get a great recon on the Losties.
Clearly high.
You might have missed Kate searching through lockers and finding beard glue with a Dharma label on it. The Others are definitely in on it, it being some form of the Dharma expirements which may or may not still be going on. I agree that they only kidnap people when necessary. The only people that have been killed or attempted to be killed were Scott/Steve, Charlie and Michael/Jin/Sawyer. I think Scott/Steve and Charlie were because Ethan went a little haywire and wasn't an overall Other plan. Remember that Zeke told Ethan that Claire wasn't even on the list, i.e. Ethan did that on his own. Zeke and friends blew up the raft because I don't think they want to let the survivors get off the island.
sho nuff
Footballguy
"see you in another life".
Yes...Dave said it...Desmond said it to Jack....and now I am told it was said 2 other times....by who?
Nadia wrote it on the picture to Sayid AND it is what Locke's dad said to him as they were going into surgery for the kidney transplant.
I have not confirmed this...but have been told this...
Yes...Dave said it...Desmond said it to Jack....and now I am told it was said 2 other times....by who?
Nadia wrote it on the picture to Sayid AND it is what Locke's dad said to him as they were going into surgery for the kidney transplant.
I have not confirmed this...but have been told this...
Sack-Religious.
Footballguy
While I agree it's part of the experiment, the fact that there was a veritable arsenal in there, makes its use at least somewhat practical. If all the guns were fakes and the ammunition blanks I could see it as part of the experiment, but since the guns have been used and fired I think there may be a slightly deeper use for the hatch that we just don't know yet.Does pushing the button do anything substantive? I don't think so.
What purpose does arming a "useless" hatch with real guns and live ammunition serve? Perhaps it could be argued they're there to see if one of the subjects will use a gun to commit suicide. Having guns there for "effect" to emphasize the importance of the "mission" for the experimental subject could be accomplished by real guns adapted to fire blanks.
saintfool
Dead sexy
my new theory is that henry was sent to do something within the hatch. perhaps the others were unable to return to the hatch because desmond had it locked up tight? the timer has reached "zero", so maybe it reaching zero triggered something in the other hatches? maybe henry needed to send a command, reset or something? we know that the computer is connected to some kind of network becuase of the the michael/walt exchange. he admitted to not keying the numbers in but he did really account for the time between his entering the vent and returning to help locke. as much as anything, i think the others needed to know how much the losties actually knew about the island/dharma/etc. they knew they had breached the hatch, given their last encounter, but little else beyond that. maybe that hatch has greater importance than the others (clearly because some were abandoned) and the others were forced to act?
Sack-Religious.
Footballguy
The hatch wasn't designed to have Sayid or Ana Lucia in it, though.Still, if the hatch is, in fact, "useless" why is it armed to the teeth for a two-man team who's supposed to be in there?
I like Sainfool's idea that the hatch actually has greater importance than we're being told/led to believe.
(HULK)
(Smash)
You've got a strong point about that... although I think almost anyone who has seen a bullet before would realize that a blank looks significantly different.I think the button pushing is definitely just and experiment in psychology. Beyond that, the hatch may have some other purpose. I'd wager that those two thoughts are not mutually exclusive.
saintfool
Dead sexy
See, I don't buy that. The other hatches that we have seen that have been abandoned are effectively stripped clean. The one that the Tailies used was empty. The one which Ethan used to keep Claire was pretty bare. This hatch is anything but that. That would imply some real value to me.
M
mojorizin
Guest
No kiddin......Clearly high.
I only watch it once, and even then I get a bit frustrated with watching something I've seen 4 times already and am kinda in and out. I thought when Kate (whoever she is, the curly headed cute chick thats either kissing Sawyer or Jack) was captured and they had the little standoff off with old bearded guy that Jack took a shot at him from close range and it sort of crackled off some field or similarly had no affect.I gotta stop drinking so early in the evening. This is one of those shows I cant decide if I'm interested in enough to get the DVDs and actually study, or disinterested in the payoff enough to never watch again.
Dash
Road Monkey
"Useless" was a strong, poorly chosen word. "Less significant" than the original purpose would have been better.The guns are intended to provide a level of security, be it mental, physical, or both. The food drop is an obvious ressuply, but we haven't seen anymore guns/ammo being provided with the food drop. I'm jump from there to the conclusion that the hatch is less important than it once was.
saintfool
Dead sexy
to me, the only thing that suggests the hatch is less signifcant than any of the others is that it had a single person manning it. First Kelvin, then Desmond and now the Losties. It's less significant because a single person is sequestered there perhaps. However, if it were insignificant why bothered having anyone keying the numbers at all? Again, why not abandon it entirely? There is something there.
Irish_Sunshine
Footballguy
Looks like the same guy to me too. I kept watching the backgound for familiar faces but I must have missed this one.Looks like the same guy to me
Sack-Religious.
Footballguy
Good question. I can think of a couple possible solutions.IIRC Desmond said that Kelvin wasn't alone there originally. Once Desmond was there, there were two people pushing the button.
I don't think Kelvin or Desmond are related to DHARMA, they are/were merely test subjects. The Losties are now in the hatch continuing the experiment.
It's possible that the Others, while somehow related to DHARMA, are also test subjects to some degree and they didn't actually know about the hatch, and that only the "Him" or the other puppeteers know everything about the island.
I don't believe a word "Henry" has said. If he was really ready to be honest with Locke why not give his real name?
The reverse Skinner box is a good thought. Maybe that's why Desmond had such a large store of food in the pantry. Maybe he quit entering the numbers for a while and the food just kept dropping in. Maybe to fight off insanity he thought it would be better to pretend to have a purpose rather than just sit in the hatch all alone.
I still don't think Henry let the timer run out though. He pushed the button and he lied to Locke about it. Perhaps it is a test of Locke's faith, and perhaps that is the reason he was sent in the first place.
The reverse Skinner box is a good thought. Maybe that's why Desmond had such a large store of food in the pantry. Maybe he quit entering the numbers for a while and the food just kept dropping in. Maybe to fight off insanity he thought it would be better to pretend to have a purpose rather than just sit in the hatch all alone.
I still don't think Henry let the timer run out though. He pushed the button and he lied to Locke about it. Perhaps it is a test of Locke's faith, and perhaps that is the reason he was sent in the first place.
saintfool
Dead sexy
I think Desmond said that Kelvin left him alone but I could be wrong. I do not think that Desmond was directly connected to Dharma either. He happened to crash on the island. Kelvin may have been too but who knows for sure at this point?
I still think the Others are Dharma refugees/survivors. Dharma/Hanso were using the island but ultimately abandoned it. The Others either chose to remain or were left behind. The Others that we have seen very suspicious of new people, so perhaps they were concerned that they were suddenly being forced to leave the island?
John Maddens Lunchbox
Socialism for Dummies
So, anyone looking forward to the Rose/Bernard flashback? 
Sack-Religious.
Footballguy
Kelvin left Desmond alone because he apparently got "sick" and died. I believe that Desmond told the Losties that Kelvin had a partner there at one point, as well. I could be wrong though.I'm flip-flopping between your theory/thoughts and my new one. I originally thought that they left behind or whatever, as well.
But, if DHARMA/HANSO are this deep (somehow bringing all these people who have interacted in some way, shape or form before the island), it would make sense for them to make it seem like the Others were in charge, when in fact they were still a part of the experiment.
Darth Cheney
Footballguy
I thought that in the tallie flashback episode.... someone commented on the children doing something to one of the survivors?
When you take that with the episode where Ecko and Jin were watching the children's feet walk through the jungle.... (Ecko had an expression of fear) you get the sense that the DHARMA project is an attempt to transform children into weapons (like in the book Firestarter).
People like Ethan ( who appears younger than Zeke) were the Alpha subjects.... and were gifted with superior strength, endurance....
Walt and the children with the Tallies are the Betas.... and are gifted with physic/telekinetic powers.
When you take that with the episode where Ecko and Jin were watching the children's feet walk through the jungle.... (Ecko had an expression of fear) you get the sense that the DHARMA project is an attempt to transform children into weapons (like in the book Firestarter).
People like Ethan ( who appears younger than Zeke) were the Alpha subjects.... and were gifted with superior strength, endurance....
Walt and the children with the Tallies are the Betas.... and are gifted with physic/telekinetic powers.
Actually, yes. I read a little spoiler, so here is why I am interested:So, anyone looking forward to the Rose/Bernard flashback?
Edit to Add: This is a very minor spoiler, kind of a single line blurb about the next episode, definitely not on par with Hulk's spoilers. I just wanted to point that out because I don't think much has been discussed about it and how/what may be causing it.
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I don't remember that, do you have a transript or can you find one?I just remember a couple things about that. First, it surprised me that Eko was so afraid. Him and Jin should have been able to physically handle what looked like young kids. Second, Eko said that if they don't want to be found, they won't be found. Again, if as you said, the kids were still 100% normal, then Eko/Jin could have ambushed that small group and the kids would have gone willingly with Eko.
Sack-Religious.
Footballguy
Think the producers got some inspiration from real life? Snipped from a Toronto Star article.
Buckychudd
Footballguy
Based on this comment, and some of the books.....I'm starting to think they're in another dimension.Perhaps a pocket dimension that if it collapses they'll all die. They have to hit the button, otherwise the magnet powers down and the dimension starts to collapse.
They have a limited ability to influence events in our dimension, and the pocket dimension isn't time specific, i.e. the others can influence any point in history and have drawn the survivors together. In some of their initial experimentations they pulled the Black Rock and Rousseau through, etc. They have fined tuned it enough now that they pulled through what they really wanted.....the lost plane.
The cloud monster is an entity from the other dimension.....the others are somehow using the children to communicate with it. The others aren't innocent/good/pure of heart enough for the monster to understand them.
Other entities are communicating with the survivors through the whispers/visions etc, some of it may also be "spill over" from our dimension.....not all of them are "good". The disease is if you listen to the entities too much and essentially lose your mind, what almost happened to Hurley.
Most of the survivors aren't really effected by the disease because there are enough real people together to distract them from the entities' influence. If you're alone you are much more susceptible. Rousseau's party was probably too small to overcome the influence of the entities and they fell victim to the disease.
Yes, probably way off here.....but it's another theory.
(HULK)
(Smash)
Not too bad.Based on this comment, and some of the books.....I'm starting to think they're in another dimension.Perhaps a pocket dimension that if it collapses they'll all die. They have to hit the button, otherwise the magnet powers down and the dimension starts to collapse.
They have a limited ability to influence events in our dimension, and the pocket dimension isn't time specific, i.e. the others can influence any point in history and have drawn the survivors together. In some of their initial experimentations they pulled the Black Rock and Rousseau through, etc. They have fined tuned it enough now that they pulled through what they really wanted.....the lost plane.
The cloud monster is an entity from the other dimension.....the others are somehow using the children to communicate with it. The others aren't innocent/good/pure of heart enough for the monster to understand them.
Other entities are communicating with the survivors through the whispers/visions etc, some of it may also be "spill over" from our dimension.....not all of them are "good". The disease is if you listen to the entities too much and essentially lose your mind, what almost happened to Hurley.
Most of the survivors aren't really effected by the disease because there are enough real people together to distract them from the entities' influence. If you're alone you are much more susceptible. Rousseau's party was probably too small to overcome the influence of the entities and they fell victim to the disease.
Yes, probably way off here.....but it's another theory.
inca911
Footballguy
The first rule of Fight Club is....On a more relevent subject, I think Libby may have been *pretending* to be a patient in the ward to observe the actual patients. It's equally likely as the alternative, and makes as much sense as her actually being crazy. She wants to hide it from Hurley so she can help him with his issues without being perceived as a spy. They already have a couple crazy people. Adding Libby to that group doesn't give them as many options.
Like Mahoney, I think Hurley's story about what happened in his accident may not be entirely accurate.
I didn't seen the "evil look" that Libby had after she walked him down from the ledge. Could that also be a look of concern/frustration? Pics?
The_Pod
Footballguy
To get some closure on whether or not Henry pushed the button.... why would he lie?
If he were lying, that would indicate that he did indeed press the buttons but did not want the Losties, and Locke specifically, to know that he did. Why would he make this lie? I can't think of many good reasons....
1) Theory #1Because not pushing the button causes something catastrophic to happen, Henry was too close to escape the ramifications, thus he had to push the button. Hopefully he can get away far enough so that he won't be caught up in the ensuing chaos when John chooses not to push it and destroys himself and the hatch, protecting whatever secrets the Hatch contains... I'm not buying this because there are too many "ifs". Maybe Henry is willing to die for the cause, but I'm not thinking that this is the right angle, even though it provides the best rationale I can think of for him to lie.
2) Just to mess with them. More impish than purposefully devious. I'd really like my bad guys to have some sort of direction here. Bad guys without a purpose pretty much ruin a good show, so I'm not thinking this is correct either.
3) I can't think of any other reason. Anyone?
Logically, I just can't come to the conclusion that Henry pushed the button and then lied about it. I don't see any motivation for this type of behavio(u)r. Maybe I'm missing something. So I believe he did not push the button. I still belive that he intentionally did not push the button to see what happened and that was his goal in getting caught, but I may be wrong (seems that nobody has agreed or backed up that theory).
If he were lying, that would indicate that he did indeed press the buttons but did not want the Losties, and Locke specifically, to know that he did. Why would he make this lie? I can't think of many good reasons....
1) Theory #1Because not pushing the button causes something catastrophic to happen, Henry was too close to escape the ramifications, thus he had to push the button. Hopefully he can get away far enough so that he won't be caught up in the ensuing chaos when John chooses not to push it and destroys himself and the hatch, protecting whatever secrets the Hatch contains... I'm not buying this because there are too many "ifs". Maybe Henry is willing to die for the cause, but I'm not thinking that this is the right angle, even though it provides the best rationale I can think of for him to lie.
2) Just to mess with them. More impish than purposefully devious. I'd really like my bad guys to have some sort of direction here. Bad guys without a purpose pretty much ruin a good show, so I'm not thinking this is correct either.
3) I can't think of any other reason. Anyone?
Logically, I just can't come to the conclusion that Henry pushed the button and then lied about it. I don't see any motivation for this type of behavio(u)r. Maybe I'm missing something. So I believe he did not push the button. I still belive that he intentionally did not push the button to see what happened and that was his goal in getting caught, but I may be wrong (seems that nobody has agreed or backed up that theory).
Dr. van Nostrand
4 8 15 16 23 42
You guys are both taking what the Others have done and said at face value, and Im not sure that's safe to do. The fake beard tells me that they are making a concerted effort to appear to the survivors in a certain way, maybe to hide what they really are and what they're really doing.I dont think the Others want any kind of war with the survivors; they only want[ed] the children. All attacks on the survivors were somehow connected to the Other's abduction of a child or some children.
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