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Assani Fisher

Assani's Poker Thread

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meh, losing a bit now....down to +$1100 on the day....would really like to get to $2/4 by tomorrow.

seriously, those monetary swings are wild... i definitely know unless i had a huge ### roll and played well below my means i couldn't handle it. my hat is off to you
really? Because I'm bored out of my mind playing this low right now, but like I said I want to do things the right way and make sure I'm a solid winning PLO player at each level before moving up.
You gotta understand man, for us regular working falk 741 is like what we make in a week. I understand the margin between your wins and losses is pretty comparable, but for most of us losing a week's pay in a day is rough.

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Explain to me why a guy making boatloads of loot playing NLHE would do anything BUT that.

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Explain to me why a guy making boatloads of loot playing NLHE would do anything BUT that.

Good point - boredom maybe?I really do think really good poker players are in it largely for the enjoyment and competitiveness though. For people like you and I we may see, say, DWI defense cases or doing the paper work for foreclosures as cash cows so there is really no point in exploring other legal work as the cash flow relative to effort per case is so good. However, with poker, I think it's different. There's no guarenteed steady stream of income so I imagine a little dip in variance - a professional nuance not included in the practice of law outside maybe personal injury or class action tort cases - would be frustrating enough for someone to want to switch to something new. It's also very easy in poker to immediately determine one's rank amongst his peer so the competitive drive is definitely there to be great at all the poker games where that's not the case w/ no other possessions (e.g. you probably don't desire to be better than me at criminal defense as I likewise have no desire to be better than you at whatever it is you practice).

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Explain to me why a guy making boatloads of loot playing NLHE would do anything BUT that.

Good point - boredom maybe?

I really do think really good poker players are in it largely for the enjoyment and competitiveness though. For people like you and I we may see, say, DWI defense cases or doing the paper work for foreclosures as cash cows so there is really no point in exploring other legal work as the cash flow relative to effort per case is so good. However, with poker, I think it's different. There's no guarenteed steady stream of income so I imagine a little dip in variance - a professional nuance not included in the practice of law outside maybe personal injury or class action tort cases - would be frustrating enough for someone to want to switch to something new. It's also very easy in poker to immediately determine one's rank amongst his peer so the competitive drive is definitely there to be great at all the poker games where that's not the case w/ no other possessions (e.g. you probably don't desire to be better than me at criminal defense as I likewise have no desire to be better than you at whatever it is you practice).

Um, I consider myself a really good poker player and I play to make money. Yes, I have a passion for the game and thoroughly enjoy it unlike little else in life, but don't let that confuse you. I'm playing to make money. Bottom line. Other people play for other reasons (other people = recreational players), but serious players play to win money.

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Ugh, think I'm getting sick....just slept for near 5 hours....hopefully I can play through the night, but I'm not sure. But back at it now for the meantime....

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meh, losing a bit now....down to +$1100 on the day....would really like to get to $2/4 by tomorrow.

seriously, those monetary swings are wild... i definitely know unless i had a huge ### roll and played well below my means i couldn't handle it. my hat is off to you
really? Because I'm bored out of my mind playing this low right now, but like I said I want to do things the right way and make sure I'm a solid winning PLO player at each level before moving up.
You gotta understand man, for us regular working falk 741 is like what we make in a week. I understand the margin between your wins and losses is pretty comparable, but for most of us losing a week's pay in a day is rough.
Yea, that does make sense to me. I think it just comes with experience. Once you've won and lost these amounts daily for 4 years its not going to really affect you anymore.

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Explain to me why a guy making boatloads of loot playing NLHE would do anything BUT that.

1. I understand I'm gonna get no sympathy from the 9-5 working class here, but its really easy to get burned out playing the same exact game every day for 60+ hours per week2. I'm doing well, but "boatloads" is a bit of an overstatement imo.3. I can't beat high stakes NLHE cash games online. I can beat lower stakes, I can beat tournaments, and I can beat live NLHE. However, I think I may be able to beat high stakes PLO games online, and if so then the ability to play so many hands per day at PLO would be 10x more lucrative for me. Seriously, the potential here is enormous if the games are as soft as I think(and if I'm as good as I think, which 99% says I'm not lol)4. Its something fresh and new and I'm enjoying it a lot now

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Explain to me why a guy making boatloads of loot playing NLHE would do anything BUT that.

Good point - boredom maybe?I really do think really good poker players are in it largely for the enjoyment and competitiveness though. For people like you and I we may see, say, DWI defense cases or doing the paper work for foreclosures as cash cows so there is really no point in exploring other legal work as the cash flow relative to effort per case is so good. However, with poker, I think it's different. There's no guarenteed steady stream of income so I imagine a little dip in variance - a professional nuance not included in the practice of law outside maybe personal injury or class action tort cases - would be frustrating enough for someone to want to switch to something new. It's also very easy in poker to immediately determine one's rank amongst his peer so the competitive drive is definitely there to be great at all the poker games where that's not the case w/ no other possessions (e.g. you probably don't desire to be better than me at criminal defense as I likewise have no desire to be better than you at whatever it is you practice).
There certainly is some competitiveness in it in the sense that I would much much rather get rich from playing poker than just getting lucky and winning the lottery. It would be a great accomplishment and something I would be very proud of to make a great career solely from poker.

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Just curious where this hand ranks preflop in terms of strength: (came up in PLO play money)Ac Jc Kd Jd

ITs a very very strong hand. I'd raise with it from any position in 6 max(probably even EP in full ring too, but I don't play that). I'd call a raise with it from any position. If theres been a raise and a reraise before me I'm probably folding it unless the money is really deep. If I raise and someone comes over the top then I'm flat calling(if its a shortstacker then I'll just put him all in.....God I hate shortstackers though). If its a medium/short stack then I may fold if I think hes only reraising with AA or KK.

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Just curious where this hand ranks preflop in terms of strength: (came up in PLO play money)Ac Jc Kd Jd

ITs a very very strong hand. I'd raise with it from any position in 6 max(probably even EP in full ring too, but I don't play that). I'd call a raise with it from any position. If theres been a raise and a reraise before me I'm probably folding it unless the money is really deep. If I raise and someone comes over the top then I'm flat calling(if its a shortstacker then I'll just put him all in.....God I hate shortstackers though). If its a medium/short stack then I may fold if I think hes only reraising with AA or KK.
this is why i hate even learning a game in play money form. people just push with any 2 (or 4) cards. there were like 5 people allin preflop when i had this hand. flopped the nuts - 9c Tc Qh. River was a K, so I had the nut straight with AJ. just not sure what i'd do with real cash on the table (not that i'm ready to play for real cash yet).

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Explain to me why a guy making boatloads of loot playing NLHE would do anything BUT that.

I have never been the player Assani is, but I was, at one point a decent player. I made a posting here about 4 or five years ago that went something like this "Pot Limit Omaha: Learn this game at once." As Assani articulated, many people are really bad at this game- much worse than they are at hold 'em. In the medium to long run, I think that Assani has the potential to make more money playing Omaha than hold em, if even he isn't as good as it as it is at hold 'em.I think that every poker player has flaws. If you can know your own flaws, you can try to best find the game that mask your flaws. I think one of Assani's flaws is that he doesn't just want to win, but he wants to win playing high stakes poker. It is a bit of an ego thing and he simply players more seriously and has greater focus with more cash on the line. PLO will offer Assani the opportunity to play higher. The players aren't as good- in part because the texts aren't as good. There are a number of great hold 'em books. There are far fewer good PLO books, and often the best choice in PLO is counter intuitive.

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only $300 away now from $2/4

PokerStars Game #15899324301: Omaha Pot Limit ($1/$2) - 2008/03/11 - 07:39:07 (ET)

Table 'Hencke' 6-max Seat #1 is the button

Seat 1: DaMethod ($212.40 in chips)

Seat 2: ninjazx12 ($87.80 in chips)

Seat 3: drubucks ($100.40 in chips)

Seat 4: jwvdcw ($188 in chips)

ninjazx12: posts small blind $1

drubucks: posts big blind $2

*** HOLE CARDS ***

Dealt to jwvdcw [7d 9c Ac 4d]

jwvdcw: raises $5 to $7

DaMethod: raises $17 to $24

ninjazx12: folds

drubucks: folds

jwvdcw: calls $17

*** FLOP *** [6d 9d 9h]

jwvdcw: checks

DaMethod: bets $49

jwvdcw: raises $115 to $164 and is all-in

DaMethod: calls $115

*** TURN *** [6d 9d 9h] [8s]

sawadi56 has returned

*** RIVER *** [6d 9d 9h 8s] [Jc]

*** SHOW DOWN ***

jwvdcw: shows [7d 9c Ac 4d] (three of a kind, Nines)

DaMethod: mucks hand

jwvdcw collected $377 from pot

*** SUMMARY ***

Total pot $379 | Rake $2

Board [6d 9d 9h 8s Jc]

Seat 1: DaMethod (button) mucked [Ah 3s 4s Ad]

Seat 2: ninjazx12 (small blind) folded before Flop

Seat 3: drubucks (big blind) folded before Flop

Seat 4: jwvdcw showed [7d 9c Ac 4d] and won ($377) with three of a kind, Nines

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ugh.....been within $200-$500 of the $2000 goal for the past few hours, just can't seem to reach it. Maybe starting to play worse trying to take some chances. May take a breakfast break to clear my head, we'll see.

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Assani,

How does running hot at a level over such a short amount of time mean that your game is at a level that you would justify moving up limits? Should there not be a # of hands at each level to give the experience as well as the bankroll.

Like I said before you have stars in you eyes man. Every time you run good you look to imediately jump up putting a larger amount of your bank roll at risk and I don't see the the amount that you net increasing that much, but the amount at risk is higher. Maybe not but it seems that way.

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Assani,How does running hot at a level over such a short amount of time mean that your game is at a level that you would justify moving up limits? Should there not be a # of hands at each level to give the experience as well as the bankroll. Like I said before you have stars in you eyes man. Every time you run good you look to imediately jump up putting a larger amount of your bank roll at risk and I don't see the the amount that you net increasing that much, but the amount at risk is higher. Maybe not but it seems that way.

I think I can already beat $10/20 and higher. Right now, I want to be playing $25/50 and forget this low limit stuff. Doing this is tough enough for me patience wise....I feel as if this is me giving in a lot already. I feel as if winning 10 buy ins at 5 different levels(1/2, 2/4, 3/6, 5/10, and 10/20) could not be attributed to just running hot over a short period of time and if I do this quest then I will have 'earned' the right to play $25/50 like I want.Edited to add: Also, I put in around 3000-4000 hands today. Thats the equivalent of playing around 150+ hours live. Its not that small of a sample size. Edited by Assani Fisher

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Alright I'm getting too tired to continue. Ended up winning $1529 so far at $1/2. Gonna go get some breakfast then maybe go to bed. Hopefully i can reach $2/4 tomorrow.

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3. I can't beat high stakes NLHE cash games online.

This seems like the more interesting question. Why not? If you beat those games, there's HUGE money to be had. What are you considering "high stakes"?

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Ugh, think I'm getting sick....just slept for near 5 hours....hopefully I can play through the night, but I'm not sure. But back at it now for the meantime....

how many hours do you play in a day? I heard lots of pros like Negreanu limit themselves to playing poker for no more than 8 hours a day and quit regardles of their run. What do you think of that?I only play occassionally and I always tell myself "I'm not sitting for more than 6 hours" but I might lose a big hand near the end or am running hot and want to keep playing - which then causes me to play when my concentration dips say 8 hours after I started and I make some costly calls.

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3. I can't beat high stakes NLHE cash games online.

This seems like the more interesting question. Why not? If you beat those games, there's HUGE money to be had. What are you considering "high stakes"?
I think in another post he stated that the quality of player at this table is simply too high that he could never play consistently better whereas w/ Omaha he's got a shot.

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Assani,How does running hot at a level over such a short amount of time mean that your game is at a level that you would justify moving up limits? Should there not be a # of hands at each level to give the experience as well as the bankroll. Like I said before you have stars in you eyes man. Every time you run good you look to imediately jump up putting a larger amount of your bank roll at risk and I don't see the the amount that you net increasing that much, but the amount at risk is higher. Maybe not but it seems that way.

I think I can already beat $10/20 and higher. Right now, I want to be playing $25/50 and forget this low limit stuff. Doing this is tough enough for me patience wise....I feel as if this is me giving in a lot already. I feel as if winning 10 buy ins at 5 different levels(1/2, 2/4, 3/6, 5/10, and 10/20) could not be attributed to just running hot over a short period of time and if I do this quest then I will have 'earned' the right to play $25/50 like I want.Edited to add: Also, I put in around 3000-4000 hands today. Thats the equivalent of playing around 150+ hours live. Its not that small of a sample size.
noleswin is right, imo. Now, I know that it's just a matter of time til Assani goes back up there :lmao: but he's right. And yes, 3-4k of hands is a drop in the bucket bro and you know it. I know guys (myself included) who have gone on 30k hand downswings and 30k hand breakeven stretches. Does that mean I'm not a good player? Not at all. I think I'm one of the better 200NL players on FT, but it's gonna happen.As for bankroll requirements, I think that as long as you have 20+ BI's for your level you're ok, AS LONG AS YOU'RE WILLING TO MOVE DOWN. If you're not, then 40+ is the minimum since the games have gotten much more tough over the last year.Assani has a #### load of gamble in him in certain areas and while I think it's VERY important to have to be able to move up, I do hope that I can impart some BR management/wisdom onto him when we move-in next week. I think we're going to be for e/o, poker-wise.Nonetheless, congrats on you running well, gb and knock'em dead today!

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Ugh, think I'm getting sick....just slept for near 5 hours....hopefully I can play through the night, but I'm not sure. But back at it now for the meantime....

how many hours do you play in a day? I heard lots of pros like Negreanu limit themselves to playing poker for no more than 8 hours a day and quit regardles of their run. What do you think of that?I only play occassionally and I always tell myself "I'm not sitting for more than 6 hours" but I might lose a big hand near the end or am running hot and want to keep playing - which then causes me to play when my concentration dips say 8 hours after I started and I make some costly calls.
I know y'all didn't ask me, but I thought I'd butt in anyway :thumbup:I can't speak for Assani, but when I play live, I can put in 14-18 hours sessions w/o any noticeable affect on my "A" game. Online, however, I can only play 1-2 hours at a time and break my 'work day' into 2-4 sessions thru a day. Now, Assani does't use Poker Tracker (which is a large mistake, imo...they have one for Omaha too ya know), but I tend to base my session length on # of hands vs time elapsed. I know some guys that put in 8-10 hours straight, but I simply am not cut out for that...my "A" game goes south far before that. I think it's different for everyone, but as long as you know your personal range, then as long as you know/learn to quit once you feel you're off your "A" game, then you'll be fine.And Otis, in regards to what you said, when you get up to the higher limits/nose bleeds at NLHE, it's mostly HU play and the guys who are there now (durr, cts, etc) are so good and know optimal and explotive play to such a lvl that I don't know that anyone will ever have any significant long-term edge over players like that. Might you/they/someone have a small edge, short-term? Sure, but in PLO, there are few 'masters' of the game that it's possible to have a larger advantage over many players. Like RFW said, there is MUCH less good reading material out there for PLO vs HE.HTH's.

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Thank you, sir...PokerStars Game #15870577237: Tournament #79246462, $200+$15 Hold'em No Limit - Level XXIII (12500/25000) - 2008/03/09 - 23:36:37 (ET)Table '79246462 819' 9-max Seat #6 is the buttonSeat 1: uncpeej (647705 in chips) Seat 2: tsarrast (1007473 in chips) Seat 3: Locutus2002 (226014 in chips) Seat 4: Reesy (658667 in chips) Seat 5: Rguzzo1986 (435119 in chips) Seat 6: jacksup (935837 in chips) Seat 7: jwvdcw (289770 in chips) Seat 8: TheKark (370000 in chips) Seat 9: aricontre (701861 in chips) uncpeej: posts the ante 2500tsarrast: posts the ante 2500Locutus2002: posts the ante 2500Reesy: posts the ante 2500Rguzzo1986: posts the ante 2500jacksup: posts the ante 2500jwvdcw: posts the ante 2500TheKark: posts the ante 2500aricontre: posts the ante 2500jwvdcw: posts small blind 12500TheKark: posts big blind 25000*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to jwvdcw [As Ac]aricontre: folds uncpeej: folds tsarrast: folds Locutus2002: folds Reesy: folds Rguzzo1986: folds jacksup: raises 55000 to 80000jwvdcw: raises 207270 to 287270 and is all-inTheKark: folds jacksup: calls 207270*** FLOP *** [Qc 7s 4h]*** TURN *** [Qc 7s 4h] [3s]*** RIVER *** [Qc 7s 4h 3s] [Ks]*** SHOW DOWN ***jwvdcw: shows [As Ac] (a pair of Aces)jacksup: shows [6h 8d] (high card King)jwvdcw collected 622040 from potjwvdcw said, "icy pots, friend"*** SUMMARY ***Total pot 622040 | Rake 0 Board [Qc 7s 4h 3s Ks]Seat 1: uncpeej folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 2: tsarrast folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 3: Locutus2002 folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 4: Reesy folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 5: Rguzzo1986 folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 6: jacksup (button) showed [6h 8d] and lost with high card KingSeat 7: jwvdcw (small blind) showed [As Ac] and won (622040) with a pair of AcesSeat 8: TheKark (big blind) folded before FlopSeat 9: aricontre folded before Flop (didn't bet)

Just realized that villian in this hand was Matt Matros....wow thats horrible.
It's not nearly that bad, IMO. He's calling 207 to win 634 so he only needs about 32% equity to break even in chip EV. If you could jam over his obv steal with any pair or any ace, he's got 34% equity. It's a quarter of his stack and he can knock you out, so he's not crippled by losing and there's extra benefits to moving up the prize ladder. Against that hand range I think it's thin but positive $ EV to call. It becomes worse when comparing the assumption against your range when, as discussed later in this thread, you're thought to be somewhat nitty.

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3. I can't beat high stakes NLHE cash games online.

This seems like the more interesting question. Why not? If you beat those games, there's HUGE money to be had. What are you considering "high stakes"?
High stakes I'd consider $25/50 online and up I guess. I can't beat them because they're hard.....I mean seriously, its a bunch of great players playing day in and day out and its often shorthanded. If I table select well, I may have a slight edge, but even then the variance would annoy the hell out of me.

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Ugh, think I'm getting sick....just slept for near 5 hours....hopefully I can play through the night, but I'm not sure. But back at it now for the meantime....

how many hours do you play in a day? I heard lots of pros like Negreanu limit themselves to playing poker for no more than 8 hours a day and quit regardles of their run. What do you think of that?I only play occassionally and I always tell myself "I'm not sitting for more than 6 hours" but I might lose a big hand near the end or am running hot and want to keep playing - which then causes me to play when my concentration dips say 8 hours after I started and I make some costly calls.
I play for as long as I feel like it. Don't play when I don't want to, and I don't play when I'm not playing well(usually). Yesterday aside from eating and sleeping, I played poker for the entire day. Today may be similar. Some days I'll take the day off. I think limiting yourself to 8 hours if you still are enjoying it and want to play more is a bad idea.

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Now, Assani does't use Poker Tracker (which is a large mistake, imo...they have one for Omaha too ya know),

I've actually purchased both the HE and Omaha pokertrackers and the poker ace huds and all that crap...but that was on my old computer and I forget the passwords and everything. If I continue with Omaha and enjoy it then I'll have you help me set it all up and I'll start to use it.

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Thank you, sir...PokerStars Game #15870577237: Tournament #79246462, $200+$15 Hold'em No Limit - Level XXIII (12500/25000) - 2008/03/09 - 23:36:37 (ET)Table '79246462 819' 9-max Seat #6 is the buttonSeat 1: uncpeej (647705 in chips) Seat 2: tsarrast (1007473 in chips) Seat 3: Locutus2002 (226014 in chips) Seat 4: Reesy (658667 in chips) Seat 5: Rguzzo1986 (435119 in chips) Seat 6: jacksup (935837 in chips) Seat 7: jwvdcw (289770 in chips) Seat 8: TheKark (370000 in chips) Seat 9: aricontre (701861 in chips) uncpeej: posts the ante 2500tsarrast: posts the ante 2500Locutus2002: posts the ante 2500Reesy: posts the ante 2500Rguzzo1986: posts the ante 2500jacksup: posts the ante 2500jwvdcw: posts the ante 2500TheKark: posts the ante 2500aricontre: posts the ante 2500jwvdcw: posts small blind 12500TheKark: posts big blind 25000*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to jwvdcw [As Ac]aricontre: folds uncpeej: folds tsarrast: folds Locutus2002: folds Reesy: folds Rguzzo1986: folds jacksup: raises 55000 to 80000jwvdcw: raises 207270 to 287270 and is all-inTheKark: folds jacksup: calls 207270*** FLOP *** [Qc 7s 4h]*** TURN *** [Qc 7s 4h] [3s]*** RIVER *** [Qc 7s 4h 3s] [Ks]*** SHOW DOWN ***jwvdcw: shows [As Ac] (a pair of Aces)jacksup: shows [6h 8d] (high card King)jwvdcw collected 622040 from potjwvdcw said, "icy pots, friend"*** SUMMARY ***Total pot 622040 | Rake 0 Board [Qc 7s 4h 3s Ks]Seat 1: uncpeej folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 2: tsarrast folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 3: Locutus2002 folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 4: Reesy folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 5: Rguzzo1986 folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 6: jacksup (button) showed [6h 8d] and lost with high card KingSeat 7: jwvdcw (small blind) showed [As Ac] and won (622040) with a pair of AcesSeat 8: TheKark (big blind) folded before FlopSeat 9: aricontre folded before Flop (didn't bet)

Just realized that villian in this hand was Matt Matros....wow thats horrible.
It's not nearly that bad, IMO. He's calling 207 to win 634 so he only needs about 32% equity to break even in chip EV. If you could jam over his obv steal with any pair or any ace, he's got 34% equity. It's a quarter of his stack and he can knock you out, so he's not crippled by losing and there's extra benefits to moving up the prize ladder. Against that hand range I think it's thin but positive $ EV to call. It becomes worse when comparing the assumption against your range when, as discussed later in this thread, you're thought to be somewhat nitty.
You're ignoring the fact that he got himself in that spot by raising a large amount with 68os. If I have $100 and raise to $50 with a random hand, then yes it would be the "right call" to call my last $50 when someone raises....that doesn't mean my play wasn't horrible.

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3. I can't beat high stakes NLHE cash games online.

This seems like the more interesting question. Why not? If you beat those games, there's HUGE money to be had. What are you considering "high stakes"?
High stakes I'd consider $25/50 online and up I guess. I can't beat them because they're hard.....I mean seriously, its a bunch of great players playing day in and day out and its often shorthanded. If I table select well, I may have a slight edge, but even then the variance would annoy the hell out of me.
See I consider 10/20 to be high stakes -- crushing that game would yield some serious l00t.

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Thank you, sir...PokerStars Game #15870577237: Tournament #79246462, $200+$15 Hold'em No Limit - Level XXIII (12500/25000) - 2008/03/09 - 23:36:37 (ET)Table '79246462 819' 9-max Seat #6 is the buttonSeat 1: uncpeej (647705 in chips) Seat 2: tsarrast (1007473 in chips) Seat 3: Locutus2002 (226014 in chips) Seat 4: Reesy (658667 in chips) Seat 5: Rguzzo1986 (435119 in chips) Seat 6: jacksup (935837 in chips) Seat 7: jwvdcw (289770 in chips) Seat 8: TheKark (370000 in chips) Seat 9: aricontre (701861 in chips) uncpeej: posts the ante 2500tsarrast: posts the ante 2500Locutus2002: posts the ante 2500Reesy: posts the ante 2500Rguzzo1986: posts the ante 2500jacksup: posts the ante 2500jwvdcw: posts the ante 2500TheKark: posts the ante 2500aricontre: posts the ante 2500jwvdcw: posts small blind 12500TheKark: posts big blind 25000*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to jwvdcw [As Ac]aricontre: folds uncpeej: folds tsarrast: folds Locutus2002: folds Reesy: folds Rguzzo1986: folds jacksup: raises 55000 to 80000jwvdcw: raises 207270 to 287270 and is all-inTheKark: folds jacksup: calls 207270*** FLOP *** [Qc 7s 4h]*** TURN *** [Qc 7s 4h] [3s]*** RIVER *** [Qc 7s 4h 3s] [Ks]*** SHOW DOWN ***jwvdcw: shows [As Ac] (a pair of Aces)jacksup: shows [6h 8d] (high card King)jwvdcw collected 622040 from potjwvdcw said, "icy pots, friend"*** SUMMARY ***Total pot 622040 | Rake 0 Board [Qc 7s 4h 3s Ks]Seat 1: uncpeej folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 2: tsarrast folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 3: Locutus2002 folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 4: Reesy folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 5: Rguzzo1986 folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 6: jacksup (button) showed [6h 8d] and lost with high card KingSeat 7: jwvdcw (small blind) showed [As Ac] and won (622040) with a pair of AcesSeat 8: TheKark (big blind) folded before FlopSeat 9: aricontre folded before Flop (didn't bet)

Just realized that villian in this hand was Matt Matros....wow thats horrible.
It's not nearly that bad, IMO. He's calling 207 to win 634 so he only needs about 32% equity to break even in chip EV. If you could jam over his obv steal with any pair or any ace, he's got 34% equity. It's a quarter of his stack and he can knock you out, so he's not crippled by losing and there's extra benefits to moving up the prize ladder. Against that hand range I think it's thin but positive $ EV to call. It becomes worse when comparing the assumption against your range when, as discussed later in this thread, you're thought to be somewhat nitty.
You're ignoring the fact that he got himself in that spot by raising a large amount with 68os. If I have $100 and raise to $50 with a random hand, then yes it would be the "right call" to call my last $50 when someone raises....that doesn't mean my play wasn't horrible.
Not ignoring it at all. I only thought that your comment was directed to his call of your big all-in because, IMO, that's the more unsure spot. Trying to steal a 60k pot from the button with 86o against two players with much smaller stacks is a much much much easier and more defensible play to make.

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Thank you, sir...PokerStars Game #15870577237: Tournament #79246462, $200+$15 Hold'em No Limit - Level XXIII (12500/25000) - 2008/03/09 - 23:36:37 (ET)Table '79246462 819' 9-max Seat #6 is the buttonSeat 1: uncpeej (647705 in chips) Seat 2: tsarrast (1007473 in chips) Seat 3: Locutus2002 (226014 in chips) Seat 4: Reesy (658667 in chips) Seat 5: Rguzzo1986 (435119 in chips) Seat 6: jacksup (935837 in chips) Seat 7: jwvdcw (289770 in chips) Seat 8: TheKark (370000 in chips) Seat 9: aricontre (701861 in chips) uncpeej: posts the ante 2500tsarrast: posts the ante 2500Locutus2002: posts the ante 2500Reesy: posts the ante 2500Rguzzo1986: posts the ante 2500jacksup: posts the ante 2500jwvdcw: posts the ante 2500TheKark: posts the ante 2500aricontre: posts the ante 2500jwvdcw: posts small blind 12500TheKark: posts big blind 25000*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to jwvdcw [As Ac]aricontre: folds uncpeej: folds tsarrast: folds Locutus2002: folds Reesy: folds Rguzzo1986: folds jacksup: raises 55000 to 80000jwvdcw: raises 207270 to 287270 and is all-inTheKark: folds jacksup: calls 207270*** FLOP *** [Qc 7s 4h]*** TURN *** [Qc 7s 4h] [3s]*** RIVER *** [Qc 7s 4h 3s] [Ks]*** SHOW DOWN ***jwvdcw: shows [As Ac] (a pair of Aces)jacksup: shows [6h 8d] (high card King)jwvdcw collected 622040 from potjwvdcw said, "icy pots, friend"*** SUMMARY ***Total pot 622040 | Rake 0 Board [Qc 7s 4h 3s Ks]Seat 1: uncpeej folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 2: tsarrast folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 3: Locutus2002 folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 4: Reesy folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 5: Rguzzo1986 folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 6: jacksup (button) showed [6h 8d] and lost with high card KingSeat 7: jwvdcw (small blind) showed [As Ac] and won (622040) with a pair of AcesSeat 8: TheKark (big blind) folded before FlopSeat 9: aricontre folded before Flop (didn't bet)

Just realized that villian in this hand was Matt Matros....wow thats horrible.
It's not nearly that bad, IMO. He's calling 207 to win 634 so he only needs about 32% equity to break even in chip EV. If you could jam over his obv steal with any pair or any ace, he's got 34% equity. It's a quarter of his stack and he can knock you out, so he's not crippled by losing and there's extra benefits to moving up the prize ladder. Against that hand range I think it's thin but positive $ EV to call. It becomes worse when comparing the assumption against your range when, as discussed later in this thread, you're thought to be somewhat nitty.
You're ignoring the fact that he got himself in that spot by raising a large amount with 68os. If I have $100 and raise to $50 with a random hand, then yes it would be the "right call" to call my last $50 when someone raises....that doesn't mean my play wasn't horrible.
Not ignoring it at all. I only thought that your comment was directed to his call of your big all-in because, IMO, that's the more unsure spot. Trying to steal a 60k pot from the button with 86o against two players with much smaller stacks is a much much much easier and more defensible play to make.
We're going to have to agree to disagree then because I think raising to 80K there with 86os considering everyone's stack size is an absolutely horrendous play.

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3. I can't beat high stakes NLHE cash games online.

This seems like the more interesting question. Why not? If you beat those games, there's HUGE money to be had. What are you considering "high stakes"?
High stakes I'd consider $25/50 online and up I guess. I can't beat them because they're hard.....I mean seriously, its a bunch of great players playing day in and day out and its often shorthanded. If I table select well, I may have a slight edge, but even then the variance would annoy the hell out of me.
See I consider 10/20 to be high stakes -- crushing that game would yield some serious l00t.
Indeed, but nobody CRUSHES that game.

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And I made it! Was $5 away from the goal, so I called a flop bet with absolutely nothing just to make it and hit runner-runner flush...go me! Gonna take a short break then start the $2/4 tonight.

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And I made it! Was $5 away from the goal, so I called a flop bet with absolutely nothing just to make it and hit runner-runner flush...go me! Gonna take a short break then start the $2/4 tonight.

Sounds good. I've got some $25/$50 PLO fired up right now. Wait, that's $0.25/$0.50 PLO fired up. :thumbdown: Good luck

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getting more used to things and theres only 2 "fast" tables running, so I'm gonna try to 6 table here

I have a hard enough time in Omaha with a single table.

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omg these guys play bad....back to back hands here

PokerStars Game #15919831122: Omaha Pot Limit ($2/$4) - 2008/03/12 - 01:57:44 (ET)

Table 'Woltjer II' 6-max Seat #2 is the button

Seat 1: jwvdcw ($513.45 in chips)

Seat 2: osubuc1981 ($538.05 in chips)

Seat 3: CopenhagenLC ($306.80 in chips)

Seat 4: restnoway ($547.65 in chips)

Seat 5: Hoppe3 ($435.50 in chips)

CopenhagenLC: posts small blind $2

restnoway: posts big blind $4

*** HOLE CARDS ***

Dealt to jwvdcw [6c 8d 9c 7d]

Hoppe3: calls $4

jwvdcw: raises $14 to $18

osubuc1981: calls $18

CopenhagenLC: folds

restnoway: calls $14

Hoppe3: calls $14

*** FLOP *** [6h 5c 9d]

restnoway: checks

Hoppe3: checks

jwvdcw: bets $36

osubuc1981: calls $36

restnoway: folds

Hoppe3: folds

*** TURN *** [6h 5c 9d] [4d]

jwvdcw: checks

osubuc1981: checks

*** RIVER *** [6h 5c 9d 4d] [As]

jwvdcw: bets $64

osubuc1981: raises $64 to $128

jwvdcw: raises $331.45 to $459.45 and is all-in

osubuc1981: folds

jwvdcw collected $400 from pot

jwvdcw: doesn't show hand

*** SUMMARY ***

Total pot $402 | Rake $2

Board [6h 5c 9d 4d As]

Seat 1: jwvdcw collected ($400)

Seat 2: osubuc1981 (button) folded on the River

Seat 3: CopenhagenLC (small blind) folded before Flop

Seat 4: restnoway (big blind) folded on the Flop

Seat 5: Hoppe3 folded on the Flop

PokerStars Game #15919847421: Omaha Pot Limit ($2/$4) - 2008/03/12 - 01:59:11 (ET)

Table 'Woltjer II' 6-max Seat #3 is the button

Seat 1: jwvdcw ($731.45 in chips)

Seat 2: osubuc1981 ($356.05 in chips)

Seat 3: CopenhagenLC ($304.80 in chips)

Seat 4: restnoway ($529.65 in chips)

Seat 5: Hoppe3 ($417.50 in chips)

restnoway: posts small blind $2

Hoppe3: posts big blind $4

*** HOLE CARDS ***

Dealt to jwvdcw [Qc As 3d Js]

jwvdcw: raises $10 to $14

osubuc1981: calls $14

CopenhagenLC is disconnected

CopenhagenLC is connected

CopenhagenLC: folds

restnoway: calls $12

Hoppe3: calls $10

*** FLOP *** [Ah Ts Ks]

restnoway: checks

Hoppe3: checks

jwvdcw: bets $24

osubuc1981: calls $24

restnoway: folds

Hoppe3: folds

*** TURN *** [Ah Ts Ks] [9h]

jwvdcw: bets $68

osubuc1981: calls $68

*** RIVER *** [Ah Ts Ks 9h] [5h]

jwvdcw: checks

osubuc1981: bets $52

jwvdcw: calls $52

*** SHOW DOWN ***

osubuc1981: shows [7h 4s 6s Qs] (high card Ace)

jwvdcw: shows [Qc As 3d Js] (a straight, Ten to Ace)

jwvdcw collected $342 from pot

*** SUMMARY ***

Total pot $344 | Rake $2

Board [Ah Ts Ks 9h 5h]

Seat 1: jwvdcw showed [Qc As 3d Js] and won ($342) with a straight, Ten to Ace

Seat 2: osubuc1981 showed [7h 4s 6s Qs] and lost with high card Ace

Seat 3: CopenhagenLC (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)

Seat 4: restnoway (small blind) folded on the Flop

Seat 5: Hoppe3 (big blind) folded on the Flop

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bluff bet sizing ftw

PokerStars Game #15920077820: Omaha Pot Limit ($2/$4) - 2008/03/12 - 02:20:30 (ET)

Table 'Nashira III' 6-max Seat #1 is the button

Seat 1: amirjon ($185.40 in chips)

Seat 2: dlorgere ($378.70 in chips)

Seat 3: noynoy777 ($1127.20 in chips)

Seat 4: jwvdcw ($423.95 in chips)

Seat 5: PDX-JMc ($394 in chips)

Seat 6: WILDMANLUCK ($145 in chips)

dlorgere: posts small blind $2

noynoy777: posts big blind $4

*** HOLE CARDS ***

Dealt to jwvdcw [5c 3c 2s As]

jwvdcw: raises $10 to $14

PDX-JMc: folds

WILDMANLUCK: folds

amirjon: calls $14

dlorgere: folds

noynoy777: folds

*** FLOP *** [Qc 2c 9c]

jwvdcw: checks

amirjon: bets $8

jwvdcw: calls $8

*** TURN *** [Qc 2c 9c] [Kh]

jwvdcw: checks

amirjon: bets $16

jwvdcw: calls $16

*** RIVER *** [Qc 2c 9c Kh] [Jc]

jwvdcw: checks

amirjon: bets $36

jwvdcw: calls $36

*** SHOW DOWN ***

amirjon: shows [4d 9d 7h 7s] (a pair of Nines)

jwvdcw: shows [5c 3c 2s As] (a flush, Queen high)

jwvdcw collected $151 from pot

*** SUMMARY ***

Total pot $154 | Rake $3

Board [Qc 2c 9c Kh Jc]

Seat 1: amirjon (button) showed [4d 9d 7h 7s] and lost with a pair of Nines

Seat 2: dlorgere (small blind) folded before Flop

Seat 3: noynoy777 (big blind) folded before Flop

Seat 4: jwvdcw showed [5c 3c 2s As] and won ($151) with a flush, Queen high

Seat 5: PDX-JMc folded before Flop (didn't bet)

Seat 6: WILDMANLUCK folded before Flop (didn't bet)

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One thing I'm still struggling with and trying to learn a bit is my own bet sizing actually.....

I will often continuation bet and/or bluff scare cards(something people don't do nearly enough imo) so often when I have the nuts I'll bet the same amount(around 5/8 of the pot usually). Obviously I do this for deception so that my bluffs and value bets look the same. However what I need to realize is that there are times when no matter if I bet 5/8 pot, 3/4 pot, 1/2 pot, or the entire pot its going to give away my hand- In spots like these its best to simply charge the draws an entire pot sized bet(unless of course your hand is so strong and/or the possible draws so weak that you want them to be drawing even if its cheaply). I think this below hand illustrates the point. At first I was gonna bet $36 or $40, but I thought about it and decided a pot sized bet was much better.

PokerStars Game #15920091652: Omaha Pot Limit ($2/$4) - 2008/03/12 - 02:21:51 (ET)

Table 'Melanie III' 6-max Seat #1 is the button

Seat 1: jwvdcw ($471.80 in chips)

Seat 2: GIANT CAT ($207 in chips)

Seat 4: AZ F1n3sT ($161.60 in chips)

Seat 5: 8ivyleague8 ($140.40 in chips)

Seat 6: SlayGosu ($135.80 in chips)

GIANT CAT: posts small blind $2

AZ F1n3sT: posts big blind $4

*** HOLE CARDS ***

Dealt to jwvdcw [Qd Th Ks Jc]

8ivyleague8: raises $10 to $14

SlayGosu: folds

4JesseJames4 joins the table at seat #3

jwvdcw: calls $14

GIANT CAT: calls $12

AZ F1n3sT: calls $10

*** FLOP *** [3d 8c Jh]

GIANT CAT: checks

AZ F1n3sT: checks

8ivyleague8: checks

jwvdcw: checks

*** TURN *** [3d 8c Jh] [9d]

GIANT CAT: checks

AZ F1n3sT: checks

8ivyleague8: checks

jwvdcw: bets $54

GIANT CAT: folds

AZ F1n3sT: folds

8ivyleague8: folds

jwvdcw collected $54 from pot

jwvdcw: doesn't show hand

*** SUMMARY ***

Total pot $56 | Rake $2

Board [3d 8c Jh 9d]

Seat 1: jwvdcw (button) collected ($54)

Seat 2: GIANT CAT (small blind) folded on the Turn

Seat 4: AZ F1n3sT (big blind) folded on the Turn

Seat 5: 8ivyleague8 folded on the Turn

Seat 6: SlayGosu folded before Flop (didn't bet)

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ouch

PokerStars Game #15920784339: Omaha Pot Limit ($2/$4) - 2008/03/12 - 03:39:38 (ET)

Table 'Woltjer II' 6-max Seat #1 is the button

Seat 1: jwvdcw ($792.65 in chips)

Seat 3: ready4all863 ($87.25 in chips)

Seat 4: Hikkespett ($479.60 in chips)

Seat 5: greenrizla ($529.30 in chips)

ready4all863: posts small blind $2

Hikkespett: posts big blind $4

*** HOLE CARDS ***

Dealt to jwvdcw [5h Js Ad Ac]

greenrizla: folds

jwvdcw: raises $10 to $14

ready4all863: raises $32 to $46

Hikkespett: raises $106 to $152

jwvdcw: raises $350 to $502

ready4all863: calls $41.25 and is all-in

Hikkespett: calls $327.60 and is all-in

*** FLOP *** [3s 7s 2h]

*** TURN *** [3s 7s 2h] [7c]

*** RIVER *** [3s 7s 2h 7c] [Jh]

*** SHOW DOWN ***

Hikkespett: shows [Ah 7d Qs As] (three of a kind, Sevens)

jwvdcw: mucks hand

Hikkespett collected $784.70 from side pot

ready4all863: mucks hand

Hikkespett collected $259.75 from main pot

ogdundar joins the table at seat #2

*** SUMMARY ***

Total pot $1046.45 Main pot $259.75. Side pot $784.70. | Rake $2

Board [3s 7s 2h 7c Jh]

Seat 1: jwvdcw (button) mucked [5h Js Ad Ac]

Seat 3: ready4all863 (small blind) mucked [Td Ks 2s Kd]

Seat 4: Hikkespett (big blind) showed [Ah 7d Qs As] and won ($1044.45) with three of a kind, Sevens

Seat 5: greenrizla folded before Flop (didn't bet)

Edited by Assani Fisher

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seriously?

PokerStars Game #15920877433: Omaha Pot Limit ($2/$4) - 2008/03/12 - 03:51:25 (ET)

Table 'Behrens' 6-max Seat #3 is the button

Seat 3: AttyBubba ($435 in chips)

Seat 4: Supereminent ($448.70 in chips)

Seat 5: Chensta ($110.65 in chips)

Seat 6: jwvdcw ($518.60 in chips)

Supereminent: posts small blind $2

Chensta: posts big blind $4

*** HOLE CARDS ***

Dealt to jwvdcw [3d Qd Ac 8c]

jwvdcw: raises $10 to $14

AttyBubba: calls $14

Supereminent: folds

Chensta: calls $10

*** FLOP *** [6h 8d 3s]

Chensta: bets $42

jwvdcw: raises $42 to $84

AttyBubba: folds

Chensta: calls $42

*** TURN *** [6h 8d 3s] [Jd]

Chensta: checks

jwvdcw: bets $16

Chensta: calls $12.65 and is all-in

*** RIVER *** [6h 8d 3s Jd] [6c]

*** SHOW DOWN ***

Chensta: shows [Qc Kc 6d 4s] (three of a kind, Sixes)

jwvdcw: mucks hand

Chensta collected $235.30 from pot

*** SUMMARY ***

Total pot $237.30 | Rake $2

Board [6h 8d 3s Jd 6c]

Seat 3: AttyBubba (button) folded on the Flop

Seat 4: Supereminent (small blind) folded before Flop

Seat 5: Chensta (big blind) showed [Qc Kc 6d 4s] and won ($235.30) with three of a kind, Sixes

Seat 6: jwvdcw mucked [3d Qd Ac 8c]

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One thing I'm still struggling with and trying to learn a bit is my own bet sizing actually.....I will often continuation bet and/or bluff scare cards(something people don't do nearly enough imo) so often when I have the nuts I'll bet the same amount(around 5/8 of the pot usually). Obviously I do this for deception so that my bluffs and value bets look the same. However what I need to realize is that there are times when no matter if I bet 5/8 pot, 3/4 pot, 1/2 pot, or the entire pot its going to give away my hand- In spots like these its best to simply charge the draws an entire pot sized bet(unless of course your hand is so strong and/or the possible draws so weak that you want them to be drawing even if its cheaply). I think this below hand illustrates the point. At first I was gonna bet $36 or $40, but I thought about it and decided a pot sized bet was much better.PokerStars Game #15920091652: Omaha Pot Limit ($2/$4) - 2008/03/12 - 02:21:51 (ET)Table 'Melanie III' 6-max Seat #1 is the buttonSeat 1: jwvdcw ($471.80 in chips) Seat 2: GIANT CAT ($207 in chips) Seat 4: AZ F1n3sT ($161.60 in chips) Seat 5: 8ivyleague8 ($140.40 in chips) Seat 6: SlayGosu ($135.80 in chips) GIANT CAT: posts small blind $2AZ F1n3sT: posts big blind $4*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to jwvdcw [Qd Th Ks Jc]8ivyleague8: raises $10 to $14SlayGosu: folds 4JesseJames4 joins the table at seat #3 jwvdcw: calls $14GIANT CAT: calls $12AZ F1n3sT: calls $10*** FLOP *** [3d 8c Jh]GIANT CAT: checks AZ F1n3sT: checks 8ivyleague8: checks jwvdcw: checks *** TURN *** [3d 8c Jh] [9d]GIANT CAT: checks AZ F1n3sT: checks 8ivyleague8: checks jwvdcw: bets $54GIANT CAT: folds AZ F1n3sT: folds 8ivyleague8: folds jwvdcw collected $54 from potjwvdcw: doesn't show hand *** SUMMARY ***Total pot $56 | Rake $2 Board [3d 8c Jh 9d]Seat 1: jwvdcw (button) collected ($54)Seat 2: GIANT CAT (small blind) folded on the TurnSeat 4: AZ F1n3sT (big blind) folded on the TurnSeat 5: 8ivyleague8 folded on the TurnSeat 6: SlayGosu folded before Flop (didn't bet)

why not just check on the turn?

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