Hines Ward - 1st ballot Hall of Famer? (1 Viewer)

Right now, hell no.

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Ward's will eventually own Steeler receiver records, and with the Steelers poised to win several Super Bowls over the next few years, parity in rings (with Swann/Stallworth) will come as well.

Ward is a ferocious blocker and a personable guy. Always smiling, whether he's been hammered with a vicious hit, or delivering one himself.

1st ballot =

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Ward's will eventually own Steeler receiver records, and with the Steelers poised to win several Super Bowls over the next few years, parity in rings (with Swann/Stallworth) will come as well.

Ward is a ferocious blocker and a personable guy. Always smiling, whether he's been hammered with a vicious hit, or delivering one himself.

1st ballot =

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I think you guys are discounting the fact that Ward is like a quadruple threat:

- receiver

- runner (end arounds)

- blocker => perhaps the best ever at his position and a reason the Steeler running game has been great (is this discounted???)

- gadget plays (former QB)

Super Bowl MVP, personality, statistics = 1st ballot

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Certainly winning Super Bowl MVP is a nice feather in his cap.

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I think you guys are discounting the fact that Ward is like a quadruple threat:

- receiver

- runner (end arounds)

- blocker => perhaps the best ever at his position and a reason the Steeler running game has been great (is this discounted???)

- gadget plays (former QB)

Super Bowl MVP, personality, statistics = 1st ballot

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I'd guess, you're riding an MVP high and will think differently this summer after analyzing stats way too much like all of us do.

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I think you guys are discounting the fact that Ward is like a quadruple threat:

- receiver

- runner (end arounds)

- blocker => perhaps the best ever at his position and a reason the Steeler running game has been great (is this discounted???)

- gadget plays (former QB)

Super Bowl MVP, personality, statistics = 1st ballot

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I'd guess, you're riding an MVP high and will think differently this summer after analyzing stats way too much like all of us do.

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And as long as Cowher is his coach (which I suspect he will be for the rest of his career), you can forget about it. He'll never accumulate HOF type stats under Cowher. Sorry--it aint happening.

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It all just depends on how long he plays. His game isn't built on skills that typically erode over time (top end speed, mind-boggling elusiveness.) He's a good route runner with good hands and an iron will, and if he chooses to play until he's 35-36, he's going to end up with 1000 receptions, about 12-13,000 yards and close to/over 100 TDs, which will make him a shoo-in. It's all up to him at this point.

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It all just depends on how long he plays.  His game isn't built on skills that typically erode over time (top end speed, mind-boggling elusiveness.) He's a good route runner with good hands and an iron will, and if he chooses to play until he's 35-36, he's going to end up with 1000 receptions, about 12-13,000 yards and close to/over 100 TDs, which will make him a shoo-in.  It's all up to him at this point.

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Ward will be 30 this year and currently sits with: 574 receptions, 7030 receiving yards, and 52 TD

Assuming he plays 5 more years at 75 receptions, 1,000 yards, and 8 TD that would get him to roughly 950, 12,000, and 90 TD. (We could debate forever how likely he is to average that for 5 more years).

There are currently WR at all those milestones not in the HOF. Even if Ward were to wind up with those numbers for his career totals, I hardly think he would be a lock.

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It all just depends on how long he plays.  His game isn't built on skills that typically erode over time (top end speed, mind-boggling elusiveness.) He's a good route runner with good hands and an iron will, and if he chooses to play until he's 35-36, he's going to end up with 1000 receptions, about 12-13,000 yards and close to/over 100 TDs, which will make him a shoo-in.  It's all up to him at this point.

Click to expand...

Ward will be 30 this year and currently sits with: 574 receptions, 7030 receiving yards, and 52 TD

Assuming he plays 5 more years at 75 receptions, 1,000 yards, and 8 TD that would get him to roughly 950, 12,000, and 90 TD. (We could debate forever how likely he is to average that for 5 more years).

There are currently WR at all those milestones not in the HOF. Even if Ward were to wind up with those numbers for his career totals, I hardly think he would be a lock.

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If he retires at 34 with 950-12000-90, then yes, he'd be on the fence. I think he'd likely squeak in based on the fact that he's already been elected to more Pro Bowls in 7 years as a starter than Monk was in his 18-year career, he's generally considered one of the best blocking WRs in NFL history, he's an unquestioned team leader, and has the Super Bowl MVP award, but he'd by no means be a lock. He's in great condition, works hard, and has passion for the game. I have no idea whether he wnats to or not, but I could see him still making plays at age 40 like Rice did, if that is his wont. If he does that, he'll have more than enough #s.Like I said, it's all up to him (and luck - regarding injuries, obviously.)

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It all just depends on how long he plays.  His game isn't built on skills that typically erode over time (top end speed, mind-boggling elusiveness.) He's a good route runner with good hands and an iron will, and if he chooses to play until he's 35-36, he's going to end up with 1000 receptions, about 12-13,000 yards and close to/over 100 TDs, which will make him a shoo-in.  It's all up to him at this point.

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Ward will be 30 this year and currently sits with: 574 receptions, 7030 receiving yards, and 52 TD

Assuming he plays 5 more years at 75 receptions, 1,000 yards, and 8 TD that would get him to roughly 950, 12,000, and 90 TD. (We could debate forever how likely he is to average that for 5 more years).

There are currently WR at all those milestones not in the HOF. Even if Ward were to wind up with those numbers for his career totals, I hardly think he would be a lock.

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If he retires at 34 with 950-12000-90, then yes, he'd be on the fence. I think he'd likely squeak in based on the fact that he's already been elected to more Pro Bowls in 7 years as a starter than Monk was in his 18-year career, he's generally considered one of the best blocking WRs in NFL history, he's an unquestioned team leader, and has the Super Bowl MVP award, but he'd by no means be a lock. He's in great condition, works hard, and has passion for the game. I have no idea whether he wnats to or not, but I could see him still making plays at age 40 like Rice did, if that is his wont. If he does that, he'll have more than enough #s.Like I said, it's all up to him (and luck - regarding injuries, obviously.)

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MY SPIN: Any player that plays as a full time starter until he's 40 merits HOF consideration.Look, I have nothing against Ward, but the fact of the matter is not many guys play at an elite level until they are nearly 40, so those that do by default will get HOF consideration.

I'm not saying Ward won't at some point merit consideration, but there is a log jam of other WRs that will get considered before him, at least now and most likely in the future.

Remember, his numbers in today's game are solid but not exceptional--he's had only one truly great year yardage wise.

I doubt Super Bowl MVP carries a ton of weight for HOF voters, but his overall play in the post season should help his cause.

As for how likely he is to get the numbers mentioned . . .

- 12 WR have had 5,970 yards receiving from age 30 and up (that would get him 13,000)

- 11 WR have had 426 receptions from age 30 and up (that would get him 1,000)

- 6 WR have had 48 receiving TD from age 30 and up (that would get him to 100)

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and with the Steelers poised to win several Super Bowls over the next few years

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Right now, hell no.

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I think you guys are discounting the fact that Ward is like a quadruple threat:

- receiver

- runner (end arounds)

- blocker => perhaps the best ever at his position and a reason the Steeler running game has been great (is this discounted???)

- gadget plays (former QB)

Super Bowl MVP, personality, statistics = 1st ballot

Click to expand...

I'd guess, you're riding an MVP high and will think differently this summer after analyzing stats way too much like all of us do.

Click to expand...

It all just depends on how long he plays. His game isn't built on skills that typically erode over time (top end speed, mind-boggling elusiveness.) He's a good route runner with good hands and an iron will, and if he chooses to play until he's 35-36, he's going to end up with 1000 receptions, about 12-13,000 yards and close to/over 100 TDs, which will make him a shoo-in. It's all up to him at this point.

Click to expand...

I think you guys are discounting the fact that Ward is like a quadruple threat:

- receiver

- runner (end arounds)

- blocker => perhaps the best ever at his position and a reason the Steeler running game has been great (is this discounted???)

- gadget plays (former QB)

Super Bowl MVP, personality, statistics = 1st ballot

Click to expand...

Ward has very little chance of getting in. Not only does he need to go a long way just to catch up with Art Monk (who isn't in), he still has at least fourteen active players between him and Art Monk, so by the time he catches Monk, Monk could be as far down as #20 in total yardage all-time. Among the guys ahead of Ward and close to Monk: Harrison, J.Smith, Bruce, R. Smith, McCardell, TO, Moss, Meshawn, Holt, Moulds, Muhammad, Galloway. All of those guys are at least 1500 yards ahead of Ward right now, and I think it's reasonable to expect that 8-10 of them will catch Monk before Ward will. (Harrison, J.Smith, and Bruce will catch him in 2006, making Monk #12 all-time).

Ward would have to have a couple of enormous seasons to get into consideration. Leading the league in receiving yards once or twice, perhaps. Not very likely in that offense.

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Ward is a great football player. If you ever played at any level, how could you not want that guy on your team? His Pro Bowl invites reflect that fact. Players votes count and Ward keeps getting in despite stats that might not be as ridiculous as some of his contemporaries. He is what is right about the game versus some of his peers. The list of malcontents is long but start with Owens and continue. Conversely, the WR position is one of the most difficult to gain entry into the HOF.

Yudkin, Drinen or Marshall Rob have the number but, if memory serves, only a little less than 3 players per decade make the HOF. Don't quote me but I think it is just shy of 3 or just shy of 4. Per 10 year period of playing time...think about that for a minute and hold the thought.

Ward's contemporaries are Moss, Owens, Harrison, Bruce, Holt, R. Smith and J. Smith. I am sure I left someone off the list so feel free to add. Some of those guys have numbers that are greater than Ward's or, which can be argued, will end up with numbers far greater than Ward's. That is not a direct knock on Ward. He is playing in an offense that is predicated on the run in an outdoor park located in the northeast. Ward is playing the hand he was given. However, some of his counterparts play in domes or fair weather climates on teams that pass early and often. As long as Cowher continues to play his brand of football and Ward stays a Steeler, Ward's statisitcal situation is not going to change.

As was mentioned, Monk is still not in the HOF. Several of the passing records were passed to Monk, if only briefly. Monk played a L-O-N-G time and was on some great Redskin teams. He has the stats, rings and longevity but is still an outsider. Some of Ward's peers will end up with numbers much greater and, ultimately, that is the first tier of players Ward will get measured against. Next, will come the other veterans in the hall. Lastly, he will be held up against Swann and Stallworth. Those guys are each icons that define an era of the NFL and one of the most dominant teams over a short period of time. Again, not a knock against Ward but just the reality of the situation, which brings us back to the thought on hold.

Does Ward end up being considered better than Harrison, Holt, Moss, Owens, Bruce, R. Smith, J. Smith and veterans like Monk/A. Reed? Will Ward without question end his career as one of the top 3 WR to play during his era? Can Ward do enough to supplant the images of Steeler legends Swann and Stallworth? As much as I like him as a player, I do not think Ward makes it, which is a shame.

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That will help him stand out from the Rod Smith/Jimmy Smith/Moulds/McCardell group he's in.

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Yudkin, thanks for clearing that up. I knew someone had that information but I had it in my head the number was very low for WR.

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Ward is a great football player.  If you ever played at any level, how could you not want that guy on your team?  His Pro Bowl invites reflect that fact.  Players votes count and Ward keeps getting in despite stats that might not be as ridiculous as some of his contemporaries.  He is what is right about the game versus some of his peers.  The list of malcontents is long but start with Owens and continue.  Conversely, the WR position is one of the most difficult to gain entry into the HOF. 

Yudkin, Drinen or Marshall Rob have the number but, if memory serves, only a little less than 3 players per decade make the HOF.  Don't quote me but I think it is just shy of 3 or just shy of 4.  Per 10 year period of playing time...think about that for a minute and hold the thought.

Ward's contemporaries are Moss, Owens, Harrison, Bruce, Holt, R. Smith and J. Smith.  I am sure I left someone off the list so feel free to add.  Some of those guys have numbers that are greater than Ward's or, which can be argued, will end up with numbers far greater than Ward's.  That is not a direct knock on Ward.  He is playing in an offense that is predicated on the run in an outdoor park located in the northeast.  Ward is playing the hand he was given.  However, some of his counterparts play in domes or fair weather climates on teams that pass early and often.  As long as Cowher continues to play his brand of football and Ward stays a Steeler, Ward's statisitcal situation is not going to change.   

As was mentioned, Monk is still not in the HOF.  Several of the passing records were passed to Monk, if only briefly.  Monk played a L-O-N-G time and was on some great Redskin teams.  He has the stats, rings and longevity but is still an outsider.  Some of Ward's peers will end up with numbers much greater and, ultimately, that is the first tier of players Ward will get measured against.  Next, will come the other veterans in the hall.  Lastly, he will be held up against Swann and Stallworth.  Those guys are each icons that define an era of the NFL and one of the most dominant teams over a short period of time.  Again, not a knock against Ward but just the reality of the situation, which brings us back to the thought on hold.

Does Ward end up being considered better than Harrison, Holt, Moss, Owens, Bruce, R. Smith, J. Smith and veterans like Monk/A. Reed?  Will Ward without question end his career as one of the top 3 WR to play during his era?  Can Ward do enough to supplant the images of Steeler legends Swann and Stallworth?  As much as I like him as a player, I do not think Ward makes it, which is a shame.

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LINKThe number per decade is actually higher than 3-4 per decade. It's more like 10 that played at any point in a given decade.

As you'll see in the thread, the number per decade has steadily and consistently risen over time . . .

1911-20: 2

1921-30: 4

1931-40: 5

1941-50: 7

1951-60: 8

1961-70: 9

1971-80: 10

1981-90: 5

1991-2000: 1

2001-Present: None eligible

However, there has been a drought for WR that played in the 80s and 90s, and I'm curious if voters will "catch up."

Guys that played in the 80s that could/should/might get in . . .

Rice, Brown, Carter, Ellard, Reed, Monk, Fryar, Irvin, Rison, Sharpe

They won't all make, but some will, getting closer to the 10 range I mentioned.

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That will help him stand out from the Rod Smith/Jimmy Smith/Moulds/McCardell group he's in.

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IMO, Moulds and McCardell are not even on the landscape for HOF consideration. Unless, as Maurile said, they have 3 straight 2,000 yard seasons.

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I don't really care for this perspective, since players touch multiple decades

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I don't really care for this perspective, since players touch multiple decades

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Decade was the easiest term to describe my thought. How about era? There are only a finited number of players represenative of a certain era, which may or may not be a single decade, that make the Hall at a given position. Will Ward be considered one of the top 3-4 WR to have played during this era of professional football?

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According to Positions - Pro Football Hall of Fame, there are 19 modern era WRs. At least that is the number in parentheses there. But the list below only contains 17 names. Does anyone know if the number is truly 17 or 19, and, if 19, who the missing two players are?

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Observations/thoughts:

1. 17 modern era WRs have been inducted since 1968. That is 17 in 38 classes, or about 1 every 2.2 classes.

2. 6 WRs have been inducted in the past 11 classes, which may indicate a slight acceleration in the rate. This is reasonable, given the rule changes from 1974 to 1978 that opened up the passing game. However, one of those players was an Old-timer committee nominee, not sure if or how much that matters. Regardless, it is hard for me to see more than 5-6 WRs being inducted within any given 10 year period... I can't see that much of an acceleration of the WR rate.

3. I'm less familiar with the players in the early 1970s, so I'm not sure of this, but I believe Hayes, Irvin, and Monk are the only finalist WRs in the past 25 years or so not yet inducted. I doubt Hayes will make it, and it is a bit odd that he suddenly appeared as a finalist for one year in 2004, having been eligible since 1981, but I think this probably bodes well for Monk and Irvin.

4. As noted, this is Reed's first year of eligibility. Carter will be eligible in 2008. Tim Brown & Rice will both be eligible in 2010. IMO all of these guys will (and should) make it, and I could see these 4 plus Irvin and Monk making it over the next 10 years. I think this amazing set of WRs pretty much eliminates any chance for any other guys like (e.g., Fryar, Sharpe, or Rison) to sneak in there during that span.

5. It will presumably be another 7+ years before Harrison, Owens, Moss, Rod Smith, Jimmy Smith, McCardell, Bruce are eligible, depending on when they retire. Personally, I would expect Harrison, Owens, and Moss to ultimately make it, and none of these others. But it's just too hard to see 7-15 years into the future how players will measure up against each other and against history.

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It all just depends on how long he plays.  His game isn't built on skills that typically erode over time (top end speed, mind-boggling elusiveness.) He's a good route runner with good hands and an iron will, and if he chooses to play until he's 35-36, he's going to end up with 1000 receptions, about 12-13,000 yards and close to/over 100 TDs, which will make him a shoo-in.  It's all up to him at this point.

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Ward will be 30 this year and currently sits with: 574 receptions, 7030 receiving yards, and 52 TD

Assuming he plays 5 more years at 75 receptions, 1,000 yards, and 8 TD that would get him to roughly 950, 12,000, and 90 TD. (We could debate forever how likely he is to average that for 5 more years).

There are currently WR at all those milestones not in the HOF. Even if Ward were to wind up with those numbers for his career totals, I hardly think he would be a lock.

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If he retires at 34 with 950-12000-90, then yes, he'd be on the fence. I think he'd likely squeak in based on the fact that he's already been elected to more Pro Bowls in 7 years as a starter than Monk was in his 18-year career, he's generally considered one of the best blocking WRs in NFL history, he's an unquestioned team leader, and has the Super Bowl MVP award, but he'd by no means be a lock. He's in great condition, works hard, and has passion for the game. I have no idea whether he wnats to or not, but I could see him still making plays at age 40 like Rice did, if that is his wont. If he does that, he'll have more than enough #s.Like I said, it's all up to him (and luck - regarding injuries, obviously.)

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MY SPIN: Any player that plays as a full time starter until he's 40 merits HOF consideration.Look, I have nothing against Ward, but the fact of the matter is not many guys play at an elite level until they are nearly 40, so those that do by default will get HOF consideration.

I'm not saying Ward won't at some point merit consideration, but there is a log jam of other WRs that will get considered before him, at least now and most likely in the future.

Remember, his numbers in today's game are solid but not exceptional--he's had only one truly great year yardage wise.

I doubt Super Bowl MVP carries a ton of weight for HOF voters, but his overall play in the post season should help his cause.

As for how likely he is to get the numbers mentioned . . .

- 12 WR have had 5,970 yards receiving from age 30 and up (that would get him 13,000)

- 11 WR have had 426 receptions from age 30 and up (that would get him 1,000)

- 6 WR have had 48 receiving TD from age 30 and up (that would get him to 100)

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It all just depends on how long he plays.  His game isn't built on skills that typically erode over time (top end speed, mind-boggling elusiveness.) He's a good route runner with good hands and an iron will, and if he chooses to play until he's 35-36, he's going to end up with 1000 receptions, about 12-13,000 yards and close to/over 100 TDs, which will make him a shoo-in.  It's all up to him at this point.

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I'm not so sure. One of the things I really resect about the NFL HOF is they don't predicate it on numbers. I was always a Dave Krieg and Vinnie Testeverde fan, but I don't think they belong in the HOF.Ward? I could see him making it. We'll have to see how his career winds down.

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It all just depends on how long he plays.  His game isn't built on skills that typically erode over time (top end speed, mind-boggling elusiveness.) He's a good route runner with good hands and an iron will, and if he chooses to play until he's 35-36, he's going to end up with 1000 receptions, about 12-13,000 yards and close to/over 100 TDs, which will make him a shoo-in.  It's all up to him at this point.

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I'm not so sure. One of the things I really resect about the NFL HOF is they don't predicate it on numbers. I was always a Dave Krieg and Vinnie Testeverde fan, but I don't think they belong in the HOF.Ward? I could see him making it. We'll have to see how his career winds down.

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I agree - with his "intangibles" so to speak, I think those #s would make him a lock.If they don't predicate it on numbers, that helps Ward's case big time. Seeing as he's now the franchise's all-time leading receiver, is considered one of the best (if not THE best) blocking WR to ever play, and has been a model of integrity and leadership his whole career, I'd think he would get a little more leeway on the statistics than many receivers currently not in the Hall, especially now that he has a ring and a SB MVP - just ornaments on the tree and one less thing a detractor could potentially point to. The primary knocks on Art Monk (at least what I hear) are that :

1) He frequently wasn't the most dangerous receiver on his own team

2) He only made 3 Pro Bowls in 18 years.

Ward is clearly the most dangerous receiver on his team (and let's face it - always has been, Burress is a hump) and has been to 4 Pro Bowls already in only 7 years as a starter.

If anything, the numbers are likely going to be the weakest part of his resume, so I think if he can get to those statistical levels, he's a cinch.

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It all just depends on how long he plays.  His game isn't built on skills that typically erode over time (top end speed, mind-boggling elusiveness.) He's a good route runner with good hands and an iron will, and if he chooses to play until he's 35-36, he's going to end up with 1000 receptions, about 12-13,000 yards and close to/over 100 TDs, which will make him a shoo-in.  It's all up to him at this point.

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I'm not so sure. One of the things I really resect about the NFL HOF is they don't predicate it on numbers. I was always a Dave Krieg and Vinnie Testeverde fan, but I don't think they belong in the HOF.Ward? I could see him making it. We'll have to see how his career winds down.

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I agree - with his "intangibles" so to speak, I think those #s would make him a lock.If they don't predicate it on numbers, that helps Ward's case big time. Seeing as he's now the franchise's all-time leading receiver, is considered one of the best (if not THE best) blocking WR to ever play, and has been a model of integrity and leadership his whole career, I'd think he would get a little more leeway on the statistics than many receivers currently not in the Hall, especially now that he has a ring and a SB MVP - just ornaments on the tree and one less thing a detractor could potentially point to. The primary knocks on Art Monk (at least what I hear) are that :

1) He frequently wasn't the most dangerous receiver on his own team

2) He only made 3 Pro Bowls in 18 years.

Ward is clearly the most dangerous receiver on his team (and let's face it - always has been, Burress is a hump) and has been to 4 Pro Bowls already in only 7 years as a starter.

If anything, the numbers are likely going to be the weakest part of his resume, so I think if he can get to those statistical levels, he's a cinch.

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If it makes anyone feel any better, I doubt I'd have Monk in either.As for Ward, it's far to easy to tell what he'll do from here, and no matter what anyone says from this point forward is 100% pure speculation.

If he puts up 500/5000/50 from here on out, then sure, he's a bonafide HOF candidate. He could also get hurt tomorrow or start to tank from here on out. Similarly, if the Steelers win 3 of the next 4 Super Bowls and Ward is the key cog, he could be a lock. The fact is we just don't know.

If he stopped playing today, he's not a HOFer. We can revisit this when he is done playing.

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I agree - with his "intangibles" so to speak, I think those #s would make him a lock.

If they don't predicate it on numbers, that helps Ward's case big time. Seeing as he's now the franchise's all-time leading receiver, is considered one of the best (if not THE best) blocking WR to ever play, and has been a model of integrity and leadership his whole career, I'd think he would get a little more leeway on the statistics than many receivers currently not in the Hall, especially now that he has a ring and a SB MVP - just ornaments on the tree and one less thing a detractor could potentially point to. The primary knocks on Art Monk (at least what I hear) are that :

1) He frequently wasn't the most dangerous receiver on his own team

2) He only made 3 Pro Bowls in 18 years.

Ward is clearly the most dangerous receiver on his team (and let's face it - always has been, Burress is a hump) and has been to 4 Pro Bowls already in only 7 years as a starter.

If anything, the numbers are likely going to be the weakest part of his resume, so I think if he can get to those statistical levels, he's a cinch.

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