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The Daily Show with Jon Stewart (1 Viewer)

Jayrok

Jayrok

Footballguy
This show was great with Jon Stewart.  Sorry to see him leave.  

 
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One interesting thing to note is Ehrman's background. He started his New Testament studies as an on-fire, born again Christian who studied at Moody Bible College, did his under-grad at Wheaton college before moving on to Princeton to learn how to read the earliest available scriptural manuscripts in their original languages. He received his Ph.D at Princeton Theological Seminary.

It was during his studies that he began to see things in a different light.

Short Bio

 
I'm sure it is an interesting read. You do realize that these are not new theories, don't you?

 
Interesting. I've always been interested in validation of the bible using texts from different time periods and hearing something like that captures my interest even more.

 
I'm sure it is an interesting read.  You do realize that these are not new theories, don't you?
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It isn't a "theory" that some texts didn't exist in the earliest manuscripts. That is fact. Text was added over the years. If you are talking about the theories of copyists adding their own words or having their own agendas, or words of the church, then yeah, I know these have been around awhile.. We can only speculate on when or why they made it in there.

I like Ehrman's style. He's not one of those bible bashers who wants to write something for the sake of it being against christianity.

He had a good interview in one article about the truths and falsehoods in Dan Brown's Davinci Code. With the movie coming out soon, it might be a good read. He said much of what is written is simply false (I know, duh, right?).. like the reason for the Nicean council, Constantine's role in canonizing the bible, etc..

He's written many books. And I post this because this book is new. Maybe we'll see newer arguments.

 
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Interesting. I've always been interested in validation of the bible using texts from different time periods and hearing something like that captures my interest even more.
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It's on my list of books to order.
 
Did the Council of Nicaea exclude portions of the Gospel? :popcorn:
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I don't think the purpose of the council was to decide what went in the bible. Its purpose was to discuss the divinity of Jesus and the relation to the Father. The decision that he was divine won the vote. But, it was believed that Jesus was divine many years before this council, just as an aside. Another decision that came out of the council was the date of the christian's observance of Easter (the christian passover). The council decided in favor of celebrating passover on the first Sunday after the spring equinox, which is different than the Jewish passover BTW.

 
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And AWAAAYYYY we go!

:popcorn:

 
Nicea did a lot of things...

1. officially made the Trinity doctrine (in a much more polytheistic manner than we believe it today... more along the lines of Platonian philosophy than modern Christian thought, but I digress).

2. formed the Catholic Church officially and made it the Roman State's Religion.

3. decided what was in and what was out of the Bible.

:shrug:

quite frankly I think modern Christianity should break off of every decision made at Nicea, but, that's just me... :shrug: The Catholics did a lot more bad than they did good, they changed a lot when they should have left it alone, and they definately damned a lot more souls than they have ever or will ever save...

 
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Nicea did a lot of things...

1. officially made the Trinity doctrine (in a much more polytheistic manner than we believe it today... more along the lines of Platonian philosophy than modern Christian thought, but I digress).

2. formed the Catholic Church officially and made it the Roman State's Religion.

3. decided what was in and what was out of the Bible.

:shrug:

quite frankly I think modern Christianity should break off of every decision made at Nicea, but, that's just me... :shrug: The Catholics did a lot more bad than they did good, they changed a lot when they should have left it alone, and they definately damned a lot more souls than they have ever or will ever save...
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What's your take on Gnostic scripture?
 
Nicea did a lot of things...

1. officially made the Trinity doctrine (in a much more polytheistic manner than we believe it today... more along the lines of Platonian philosophy than modern Christian thought, but I digress).

2. formed the Catholic Church officially and made it the Roman State's Religion.

3. decided what was in and what was out of the Bible.

:shrug:

quite frankly I think modern Christianity should break off of every decision made at Nicea, but, that's just me... :shrug: The Catholics did a lot more bad than they did good, they changed a lot when they should have left it alone, and they definately damned a lot more souls than they have ever or will ever save...
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What's your take on Gnostic scripture?
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I haven't read the apocrophia or the other stuff, but I think that some of it is probably legit and some of it is not... I do know that a few of them definately do disagree with what is written in the books of the NT that we have canonized now... :shrug:
 
The Catholics did a lot more bad than they did good, they changed a lot when they should have left it alone, and they definately damned a lot more souls than they have ever or will ever save...
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Very interesting take here. So the church is now the determiner of salvation or damnation? I always thought that was a God thing, but if I am reading you right the church you attend has a role in whether or not you are saved?!?
 
Ehrman is an excellent scholar, we used his text on the New Testament in our Intro to Bible course at Oregon.

I am sure the book is worth checking out.

 
The Catholics did a lot more bad than they did good, they changed a lot when they should have left it alone, and they definately damned a lot more souls than they have ever or will ever save...
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Very interesting take here. So the church is now the determiner of salvation or damnation? I always thought that was a God thing, but if I am reading you right the church you attend has a role in whether or not you are saved?!?
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Yes, the ones who edited the content of the Bible to lead people astray did have a hand in damning the souls of those who were dumb enough to blindly follow.If I tell you to drink some Kool-Aid (and it is laced with cianide, but you don't know) and you are dumb enough to drink it because I told you to, did I have a hand in your death?

same thing applies here... Scripture verses were changed, the Bible was made illegal to read, pagan doctrines were incorperated into the church, and the end result was more people were damned as a result of believing the lies of the Catholic Church than they could ever save...

The church (especially that church) has no say in whether you are saved or not, however, by believing anyone's lie you can be taken to hell... that is what is happening here...

 
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The Catholics did a lot more bad than they did good, they changed a lot when they should have left it alone, and they definately damned a lot more souls than they have ever or will ever save...
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Very interesting take here. So the church is now the determiner of salvation or damnation? I always thought that was a God thing, but if I am reading you right the church you attend has a role in whether or not you are saved?!?
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Yes, the ones who edited the content of the Bible to lead people astray did have a hand in damning the souls of those who were dumb enough to blindly follow.If I tell you to drink some Kool-Aid (and it is laced with cianide, but you don't know) and you are dumb enough to drink it because I told you to, did I have a hand in your death?

same thing applies here... Scripture verses were changed, the Bible was made illegal to read, pagan doctrines were incorperated into the church, and the end result was more people were damned as a result of believing the lies of the Catholic Church than they could ever save...
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So I assume then that you are a seventh day adventist? Get rid of Christmas and Easter as those were offshoots of pagan festivals. Then again, if the church hadn't been the repositor of the the manuscripts then do you really think we would have a New Testament at all? How do you know that the evil Catholic church hasn't perverted any of the New testament that you hold dear?
 
The Catholics did a lot more bad than they did good, they changed a lot when they should have left it alone, and they definately damned a lot more souls than they have ever or will ever save...
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:rolleyes:
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have you ever really studied what happened at Nicea?Have you studied the history of Matthew 28:19, I John 5:7, the (I think) 13th chapter of I Corinthians, & the end of the book of Mark???

 
The Catholics did a lot more bad than they did good, they changed a lot when they should have left it alone, and they definately damned a lot more souls than they have ever or will ever save...
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Very interesting take here. So the church is now the determiner of salvation or damnation? I always thought that was a God thing, but if I am reading you right the church you attend has a role in whether or not you are saved?!?
Click to expand...
Yes, the ones who edited the content of the Bible to lead people astray did have a hand in damning the souls of those who were dumb enough to blindly follow.If I tell you to drink some Kool-Aid (and it is laced with cianide, but you don't know) and you are dumb enough to drink it because I told you to, did I have a hand in your death?

same thing applies here... Scripture verses were changed, the Bible was made illegal to read, pagan doctrines were incorperated into the church, and the end result was more people were damned as a result of believing the lies of the Catholic Church than they could ever save...
Click to expand...
So I assume then that you are a seventh day adventist? Get rid of Christmas and Easter as those were offshoots of pagan festivals. Then again, if the church hadn't been the repositor of the the manuscripts then do you really think we would have a New Testament at all? How do you know that the evil Catholic church hasn't perverted any of the New testament that you hold dear?
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the church changed a ton of manuscripts (that's why i said they did more harm than help because we'd still have them without the church, I think)...and the Catholic Church has perverted the New Testament, that was my point... there is proof of things that they did change (and most of them have to do with the trinity and silencing women)

 
The Catholics did a lot more bad than they did good, they changed a lot when they should have left it alone, and they definately damned a lot more souls than they have ever or will ever save...
Click to expand...
Very interesting take here. So the church is now the determiner of salvation or damnation? I always thought that was a God thing, but if I am reading you right the church you attend has a role in whether or not you are saved?!?
Click to expand...
Yes, the ones who edited the content of the Bible to lead people astray did have a hand in damning the souls of those who were dumb enough to blindly follow.If I tell you to drink some Kool-Aid (and it is laced with cianide, but you don't know) and you are dumb enough to drink it because I told you to, did I have a hand in your death?

same thing applies here... Scripture verses were changed, the Bible was made illegal to read, pagan doctrines were incorperated into the church, and the end result was more people were damned as a result of believing the lies of the Catholic Church than they could ever save...

The church (especially that church) has no say in whether you are saved or not, however, by believing anyone's lie you can be taken to hell... that is what is happening here...
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Thanks. I'll file that in the judge not lest ye be judged file.
 
"Blessed are the Cheesemakers" was definitely in the earlier gospels.

 
The Catholics did a lot more bad than they did good, they changed a lot when they should have left it alone, and they definately damned a lot more souls than they have ever or will ever save...
Click to expand...
Very interesting take here. So the church is now the determiner of salvation or damnation? I always thought that was a God thing, but if I am reading you right the church you attend has a role in whether or not you are saved?!?
Click to expand...
Yes, the ones who edited the content of the Bible to lead people astray did have a hand in damning the souls of those who were dumb enough to blindly follow.If I tell you to drink some Kool-Aid (and it is laced with cianide, but you don't know) and you are dumb enough to drink it because I told you to, did I have a hand in your death?

same thing applies here... Scripture verses were changed, the Bible was made illegal to read, pagan doctrines were incorperated into the church, and the end result was more people were damned as a result of believing the lies of the Catholic Church than they could ever save...

The church (especially that church) has no say in whether you are saved or not, however, by believing anyone's lie you can be taken to hell... that is what is happening here...
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Thanks. I'll file that in the judge not lest ye be judged file.
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:lmao: you realize that you are completely mis-using that verse, right?

 
The Catholics did a lot more bad than they did good, they changed a lot when they should have left it alone, and they definately damned a lot more souls than they have ever or will ever save...
Click to expand...
Very interesting take here. So the church is now the determiner of salvation or damnation? I always thought that was a God thing, but if I am reading you right the church you attend has a role in whether or not you are saved?!?
Click to expand...
Yes, the ones who edited the content of the Bible to lead people astray did have a hand in damning the souls of those who were dumb enough to blindly follow.If I tell you to drink some Kool-Aid (and it is laced with cianide, but you don't know) and you are dumb enough to drink it because I told you to, did I have a hand in your death?

same thing applies here... Scripture verses were changed, the Bible was made illegal to read, pagan doctrines were incorperated into the church, and the end result was more people were damned as a result of believing the lies of the Catholic Church than they could ever save...
Click to expand...
So I assume then that you are a seventh day adventist? Get rid of Christmas and Easter as those were offshoots of pagan festivals. Then again, if the church hadn't been the repositor of the the manuscripts then do you really think we would have a New Testament at all? How do you know that the evil Catholic church hasn't perverted any of the New testament that you hold dear?
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the church changed a ton of manuscripts (that's why i said they did more harm than help because we'd still have them without the church, I think)...and the Catholic Church has perverted the New Testament, that was my point... there is proof of things that they did change (and most of them have to do with the trinity and silencing women)
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There is nothing wrong with silencing women, unfortunately it is a skill I have not acquired.
 
The Catholics did a lot more bad than they did good, they changed a lot when they should have left it alone, and they definately damned a lot more souls than they have ever or will ever save...
Click to expand...
Very interesting take here. So the church is now the determiner of salvation or damnation? I always thought that was a God thing, but if I am reading you right the church you attend has a role in whether or not you are saved?!?
Click to expand...
Yes, the ones who edited the content of the Bible to lead people astray did have a hand in damning the souls of those who were dumb enough to blindly follow.If I tell you to drink some Kool-Aid (and it is laced with cianide, but you don't know) and you are dumb enough to drink it because I told you to, did I have a hand in your death?

same thing applies here... Scripture verses were changed, the Bible was made illegal to read, pagan doctrines were incorperated into the church, and the end result was more people were damned as a result of believing the lies of the Catholic Church than they could ever save...
Click to expand...
So I assume then that you are a seventh day adventist? Get rid of Christmas and Easter as those were offshoots of pagan festivals. Then again, if the church hadn't been the repositor of the the manuscripts then do you really think we would have a New Testament at all? How do you know that the evil Catholic church hasn't perverted any of the New testament that you hold dear?
Click to expand...
the church changed a ton of manuscripts (that's why i said they did more harm than help because we'd still have them without the church, I think)...and the Catholic Church has perverted the New Testament, that was my point... there is proof of things that they did change (and most of them have to do with the trinity and silencing women)
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There is nothing wrong with silencing women, unfortunately it is a skill I have not acquired.
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:lmao:
 
The Catholics did a lot more bad than they did good, they changed a lot when they should have left it alone, and they definately damned a lot more souls than they have ever or will ever save...
Click to expand...
Very interesting take here. So the church is now the determiner of salvation or damnation? I always thought that was a God thing, but if I am reading you right the church you attend has a role in whether or not you are saved?!?
Click to expand...
Yes, the ones who edited the content of the Bible to lead people astray did have a hand in damning the souls of those who were dumb enough to blindly follow.If I tell you to drink some Kool-Aid (and it is laced with cianide, but you don't know) and you are dumb enough to drink it because I told you to, did I have a hand in your death?

same thing applies here... Scripture verses were changed, the Bible was made illegal to read, pagan doctrines were incorperated into the church, and the end result was more people were damned as a result of believing the lies of the Catholic Church than they could ever save...

The church (especially that church) has no say in whether you are saved or not, however, by believing anyone's lie you can be taken to hell... that is what is happening here...
Click to expand...
So every dead Catholic is in Hell?
 
The Catholics did a lot more bad than they did good, they changed a lot when they should have left it alone, and they definately damned a lot more souls than they have ever or will ever save...
Click to expand...
Very interesting take here. So the church is now the determiner of salvation or damnation? I always thought that was a God thing, but if I am reading you right the church you attend has a role in whether or not you are saved?!?
Click to expand...
Yes, the ones who edited the content of the Bible to lead people astray did have a hand in damning the souls of those who were dumb enough to blindly follow.If I tell you to drink some Kool-Aid (and it is laced with cianide, but you don't know) and you are dumb enough to drink it because I told you to, did I have a hand in your death?

same thing applies here... Scripture verses were changed, the Bible was made illegal to read, pagan doctrines were incorperated into the church, and the end result was more people were damned as a result of believing the lies of the Catholic Church than they could ever save...

The church (especially that church) has no say in whether you are saved or not, however, by believing anyone's lie you can be taken to hell... that is what is happening here...
Click to expand...
So every dead Catholic is in Hell?
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Well duh.
 
"Blessed are the Cheesemakers" was definitely in the earlier gospels.
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Yeah, but obviously, this is not meant to be taken literally. It refers to any manufacturers of dairy products.
 
The Catholics did a lot more bad than they did good, they changed a lot when they should have left it alone, and they definately damned a lot more souls than they have ever or will ever save...
Click to expand...
Very interesting take here. So the church is now the determiner of salvation or damnation? I always thought that was a God thing, but if I am reading you right the church you attend has a role in whether or not you are saved?!?
Click to expand...
Yes, the ones who edited the content of the Bible to lead people astray did have a hand in damning the souls of those who were dumb enough to blindly follow.If I tell you to drink some Kool-Aid (and it is laced with cianide, but you don't know) and you are dumb enough to drink it because I told you to, did I have a hand in your death?

same thing applies here... Scripture verses were changed, the Bible was made illegal to read, pagan doctrines were incorperated into the church, and the end result was more people were damned as a result of believing the lies of the Catholic Church than they could ever save...

The church (especially that church) has no say in whether you are saved or not, however, by believing anyone's lie you can be taken to hell... that is what is happening here...
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So every dead Catholic is in Hell?
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to be completely honest... if they followed Catholic doctrine, yes...but I'm not the one who decides that, so who knows... I can only go by what I'm told in teh Bible about what we need to do and what I see the church doing/teaching in history (and in modern times)

 
:blackdot: So I remember to pick this book up soon.

I think critical analysis of the origins of the texts that comprise the Bible (or any book of faith) is important as it lends another method for us to inspect our beliefs.

 
I just remember growing up having this general impression that christians, by nature, were tolerant, "turn the other cheek", "do unto others" kind of people. But now I am thinking that those words do not mean what I think they mean.

I'm glad Larry will let me get through the day thinking of my sweet, never hurt a soul, generous, loving, and CATHOLIC grandma rotting in hell. Thanks Larry. You guys are great. Where do I sign up?

 
The Catholics did a lot more bad than they did good, they changed a lot when they should have left it alone, and they definately damned a lot more souls than they have ever or will ever save...
Click to expand...
Very interesting take here. So the church is now the determiner of salvation or damnation? I always thought that was a God thing, but if I am reading you right the church you attend has a role in whether or not you are saved?!?
Click to expand...
Yes, the ones who edited the content of the Bible to lead people astray did have a hand in damning the souls of those who were dumb enough to blindly follow.If I tell you to drink some Kool-Aid (and it is laced with cianide, but you don't know) and you are dumb enough to drink it because I told you to, did I have a hand in your death?

same thing applies here... Scripture verses were changed, the Bible was made illegal to read, pagan doctrines were incorperated into the church, and the end result was more people were damned as a result of believing the lies of the Catholic Church than they could ever save...

The church (especially that church) has no say in whether you are saved or not, however, by believing anyone's lie you can be taken to hell... that is what is happening here...
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Thing is, there are probably 50 different flavors of Kool-Aid in Christianity alone. And not a person alive knows which flavors contain the cyanide that sends you to Hell. One of them? Some of them? All of them? To pretend to know (or believe, if that word suits) that your particular version of Christianity, your particular interpretation of the Bible, your particular flavor of Kool-Aid is the only one that does not contain cyanide, and to state with certainty that another flavor (Catholic Cherry? Pope Pomegranate?) does, WHEN YOU ARE NOT GOD, is beyond presumptuous and closed-minded. I'm not a Biblical scholar by any means - actually, a lapsed Lutheran - but I recall Jesus saying something about Him being "the way" to salvation - not a particular church or sect.

 
I just remember growing up having this general impression that christians, by nature, were tolerant, "turn the other cheek", "do unto others" kind of people. But now I am thinking that those words do not mean what I think they mean.

I'm glad Larry will let me get through the day thinking of my sweet, never hurt a soul, generous, loving, and CATHOLIC grandma rotting in hell. Thanks Larry. You guys are great. Where do I sign up?
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gibfun... no matter how sweet, loving, generous, or anything else a human is we are sinful and lost without God...The problem is that the Catholic Church, for 1700 years, has distorted the way that we get to God in such a way that anyone who follows thier doctrine (or off-shoots of thier doctrinal changes) are not truely following God...

The Bible says to not follow the traditions of men, but that is almost the entirety of Catholic doctrine...

Does it suck to think about? Yeah... I have the same deal with my grandma... loving, kind, sweet, generous, did as good as she could and did everything she thought she was suppose to... yet... at the same time...

according to the Bible did she do what was required of man to be saved? Nope, she didn't... does that mean she didn't make it? I don't know, maybe she did, I hope so, but I can't with a good conciense say that I think she did make it...

 
"Blessed are the Cheesemakers" was definitely in the earlier gospels.
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Yeah, but obviously, this is not meant to be taken literally. It refers to any manufacturers of dairy products.
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I think the latin word "cheesemakers" can also mean, "lovemakers", "goathumpers" and "fish."Its all in the context.

 
"Blessed are the Cheesemakers" was definitely in the earlier gospels.
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Yeah, but obviously, this is not meant to be taken literally. It refers to any manufacturers of dairy products.
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I think the latin word "cheesemakers" can also mean, "lovemakers", "goathumpers" and "fish."Its all in the context.
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So if someone heads over to the farm and consumes a good Brie or maybe a wheel of Cheddar with some smoked salmon while going nuts on old Nanny, they should be good to go? Damn, some of my friends from back home are already in like Flynn... :thumbup:
 
I just remember growing up having this general impression that christians, by nature, were tolerant, "turn the other cheek", "do unto others" kind of people.  But now I am thinking that those words do not mean what I think they mean. 

I'm glad Larry will let me get through the day thinking of my sweet, never hurt a soul, generous, loving, and CATHOLIC grandma rotting in hell.  Thanks Larry.  You guys are great.  Where do I sign up?
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gibfun... no matter how sweet, loving, generous, or anything else a human is we are sinful and lost without God...The problem is that the Catholic Church, for 1700 years, has distorted the way that we get to God in such a way that anyone who follows thier doctrine (or off-shoots of thier doctrinal changes) are not truely following God...

The Bible says to not follow the traditions of men, but that is almost the entirety of Catholic doctrine...

Does it suck to think about? Yeah... I have the same deal with my grandma... loving, kind, sweet, generous, did as good as she could and did everything she thought she was suppose to... yet... at the same time...

according to the Bible did she do what was required of man to be saved? Nope, she didn't... does that mean she didn't make it? I don't know, maybe she did, I hope so, but I can't with a good conciense say that I think she did make it...
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So do you believe that if you "believe in the Lord Jesus Christ" you will be saved? Staright from the Bible, no other disclaimers, no other requirements. The reason I ask is that you have in the past brought up other requirements.
 
Larryboy Logic 101

1. There is a Bible, and other apocryphal scriptures.

2. Catholics changed and perverted scriptures over time.

3. I don't know which scriptures are the true word of God.

4. This bastardized Bible tells me that the Catholics are damned to hell.

Personally, there's as much truth in LOTR as there is in the BIBLE

 
The Catholics did a lot more bad than they did good, they changed a lot when they should have left it alone, and they definately damned a lot more souls than they have ever or will ever save...
Click to expand...
Very interesting take here. So the church is now the determiner of salvation or damnation? I always thought that was a God thing, but if I am reading you right the church you attend has a role in whether or not you are saved?!?
Click to expand...
Yes, the ones who edited the content of the Bible to lead people astray did have a hand in damning the souls of those who were dumb enough to blindly follow.If I tell you to drink some Kool-Aid (and it is laced with cianide, but you don't know) and you are dumb enough to drink it because I told you to, did I have a hand in your death?

same thing applies here... Scripture verses were changed, the Bible was made illegal to read, pagan doctrines were incorperated into the church, and the end result was more people were damned as a result of believing the lies of the Catholic Church than they could ever save...

The church (especially that church) has no say in whether you are saved or not, however, by believing anyone's lie you can be taken to hell... that is what is happening here...
Click to expand...
Thing is, there are probably 50 different flavors of Kool-Aid in Christianity alone. And not a person alive knows which flavors contain the cyanide that sends you to Hell. One of them? Some of them? All of them? To pretend to know (or believe, if that word suits) that your particular version of Christianity, your particular interpretation of the Bible, your particular flavor of Kool-Aid is the only one that does not contain cyanide, and to state with certainty that another flavor (Catholic Cherry? Pope Pomegranate?) does, WHEN YOU ARE NOT GOD, is beyond presumptuous and closed-minded. I'm not a Biblical scholar by any means - actually, a lapsed Lutheran - but I recall Jesus saying something about Him being "the way" to salvation - not a particular church or sect.
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I'm not necessarily saying mine is right, I'm saying i am 100% sure thiers is wrong (by thier own admission through history)
 
The Catholics did a lot more bad than they did good, they changed a lot when they should have left it alone, and they definately damned a lot more souls than they have ever or will ever save...
Click to expand...
Very interesting take here. So the church is now the determiner of salvation or damnation? I always thought that was a God thing, but if I am reading you right the church you attend has a role in whether or not you are saved?!?
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For nearly 2 millenia the Catholic Church attempted to play that role. They most definitely tried to be the conduit between the individual and God. But a lot of that is more to do with the lack of literacy of the masses for all but the last 2 hundred years or so than the Catholic Church's trying to control the masses. Of course that control was frequently abused over the years thus forcing people like Martin Luther to make a stand....
 
I just remember growing up having this general impression that christians, by nature, were tolerant, "turn the other cheek", "do unto others" kind of people.  But now I am thinking that those words do not mean what I think they mean. 

I'm glad Larry will let me get through the day thinking of my sweet, never hurt a soul, generous, loving, and CATHOLIC grandma rotting in hell.  Thanks Larry.  You guys are great.  Where do I sign up?
Click to expand...
gibfun... no matter how sweet, loving, generous, or anything else a human is we are sinful and lost without God...The problem is that the Catholic Church, for 1700 years, has distorted the way that we get to God in such a way that anyone who follows thier doctrine (or off-shoots of thier doctrinal changes) are not truely following God...

The Bible says to not follow the traditions of men, but that is almost the entirety of Catholic doctrine...

Does it suck to think about? Yeah... I have the same deal with my grandma... loving, kind, sweet, generous, did as good as she could and did everything she thought she was suppose to... yet... at the same time...

according to the Bible did she do what was required of man to be saved? Nope, she didn't... does that mean she didn't make it? I don't know, maybe she did, I hope so, but I can't with a good conciense say that I think she did make it...
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So do you believe that if you "believe in the Lord Jesus Christ" you will be saved? Staright from the Bible, no other disclaimers, no other requirements. The reason I ask is that you have in the past brought up other requirements.
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belief requires action, if you don't obey the commands (and do the actions contained therein) you don't truely believe...believing isn't just saying "I believe in you God" like many modern churches say...

 
Larryboy Logic 101

1. There is a Bible, and other apocryphal scriptures.

2. Catholics changed and perverted scriptures over time.

3. I don't know which scriptures are the true word of God.

4. This bastardized Bible tells me that the Catholics are damned to hell.

Personally, there's as much truth in LOTR as there is in the BIBLE
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1. true...2. true...

3. I do know a number of them are the true word of God, well, letters written by men of God that contain thoughts that God approves of... there are some I'm not certain on, but there are a number I am certain bout...

4. yes, according to the bastardized version of the Bible that has been caused by years of pervesion by the Catholic Church, the Catholics are STILL going to hell according to it... they really aren't very good at lying...

 
The Catholics did a lot more bad than they did good, they changed a lot when they should have left it alone, and they definately damned a lot more souls than they have ever or will ever save...
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Very interesting take here. So the church is now the determiner of salvation or damnation? I always thought that was a God thing, but if I am reading you right the church you attend has a role in whether or not you are saved?!?
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For nearly 2 millenia the Catholic Church attempted to play that role. They most definitely tried to be the conduit between the individual and God. But a lot of that is more to do with the lack of literacy of the masses for all but the last 2 hundred years or so than the Catholic Church's trying to control the masses. Of course that control was frequently abused over the years thus forcing people like Martin Luther to make a stand....
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you are aware that Luther didn't want to make a stand until they kicked him out, right? Luther wanted to stay a good cAtholic for the rest of his life and would have stayed that way had the Church not excommunicated him and tried to kill him...
 
Larryboy Logic 101

1. There is a Bible, and other apocryphal scriptures.

2. Catholics changed and perverted scriptures over time.

3. I don't know which scriptures are the true word of God.

4. This bastardized Bible tells me that the Catholics are damned to hell.

Personally, there's as much truth in LOTR as there is in the BIBLE
Click to expand...
1. true...2. true...

3. I do know a number of them are the true word of God, well, letters written by men of God that contain thoughts that God approves of... there are some I'm not certain on, but there are a number I am certain bout...

4. yes, according to the bastardized version of the Bible that has been caused by years of pervesion by the Catholic Church, the Catholics are STILL going to hell according to it... they really aren't very good at lying...
Click to expand...
The fact that you see no problem with this humors me in the way it is funny to watch a dog chasing its own tail.
 
Larryboy Logic 101

1. There is a Bible, and other apocryphal scriptures.

2. Catholics changed and perverted scriptures over time.

3. I don't know which scriptures are the true word of God.

4. This bastardized Bible tells me that the Catholics are damned to hell.

Personally, there's as much truth in LOTR as there is in the BIBLE
Click to expand...
1. true...2. true...

3. I do know a number of them are the true word of God, well, letters written by men of God that contain thoughts that God approves of... there are some I'm not certain on, but there are a number I am certain bout...

4. yes, according to the bastardized version of the Bible that has been caused by years of pervesion by the Catholic Church, the Catholics are STILL going to hell according to it... they really aren't very good at lying...
Click to expand...
The fact that you see no problem with this humors me in the way it is funny to watch a dog chasing its own tail.
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:lmao: I'm God and I approve of this message.

Paid for by the committee to banish all Catholics to eternal damnation

 
I'm not necessarily saying mine is right, I'm saying i am 100% sure thiers is wrong (by thier own admission through history)
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Every Christian denomination is wrong in one way or another. Denominations are made up of people who are fallible. If were damned to hell because our doctrine is slightly wrong, then God's Grace is NOT sufficient.That's not to say we can believe anything and God's Grace will be sufficient, but to tell people who profess belief in Jesus Christ, and serve Christ continually, and produce good fruit in the lives, that they are going to hell because of technicalities of the words that were uttered when they were baptized is ludicrous.

 
I'm not necessarily saying mine is right, I'm saying i am 100% sure thiers is wrong (by thier own admission through history)
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Hi, God, I'm bakes. Nice to meet you.
 
I'm not necessarily saying mine is right, I'm saying i am 100% sure thiers is wrong (by thier own admission through history)
Click to expand...
Every Christian denomination is wrong in one way or another. Denominations are made up of people who are fallible. If were damned to hell because our doctrine is slightly wrong, then God's Grace is NOT sufficient.That's not to say we can believe anything and God's Grace will be sufficient, but to tell people who profess belief in Jesus Christ, and serve Christ continually, and produce good fruit in the lives, that they are going to hell because of technicalities of the words that were uttered when they were baptized is ludicrous.
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how about this... it isn't just SLIGHTLY wrong, its completely and utterly wrong and based upon heresy and pagan doctrines that have no place in the church...the whole doctrine of the trinity and baptism in the titles is, to a large degree, based upon 2 verses (Matthew 28:19 & I John 5:7) that WERE CHANGED!!! one said "In my name" originally and the ohter never existed...

The Catholic Church isn't just a little wrong, its completely missed the boat over the years, Spock... if anything, right now today it is at its best, and that is sad, to be honest with you...

What you are saying is that we can believe anythign and God's Grace is sufficient, because you are saying that we don't have to obey even God's commands to be saved... The words we utter when people are baptized are important if they are part of the command God gave us (they are, the original Matthew 28:19 and the doctrine of hte Apostles tell us this)...

But, hey, keep going on believing that God's grace exempts you from obeying God's commands... I'm sure that He'll be ok with you knowingly disobeying His commands...

 
I'm not necessarily saying mine is right, I'm saying i am 100% sure thiers is wrong (by thier own admission through history)
Click to expand...
Every Christian denomination is wrong in one way or another. Denominations are made up of people who are fallible. If were damned to hell because our doctrine is slightly wrong, then God's Grace is NOT sufficient.That's not to say we can believe anything and God's Grace will be sufficient, but to tell people who profess belief in Jesus Christ, and serve Christ continually, and produce good fruit in the lives, that they are going to hell because of technicalities of the words that were uttered when they were baptized is ludicrous.
Click to expand...
how about this... it isn't just SLIGHTLY wrong, its completely and utterly wrong and based upon heresy and pagan doctrines that have no place in the church...the whole doctrine of the trinity and baptism in the titles is, to a large degree, based upon 2 verses (Matthew 28:19 & I John 5:7) that WERE CHANGED!!! one said "In my name" originally and the ohter never existed...

The Catholic Church isn't just a little wrong, its completely missed the boat over the years, Spock... if anything, right now today it is at its best, and that is sad, to be honest with you...

What you are saying is that we can believe anythign and God's Grace is sufficient, because you are saying that we don't have to obey even God's commands to be saved... The words we utter when people are baptized are important if they are part of the command God gave us (they are, the original Matthew 28:19 and the doctrine of hte Apostles tell us this)...

But, hey, keep going on believing that God's grace exempts you from obeying God's commands... I'm sure that He'll be ok with you knowingly disobeying His commands...
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Thank god I gave up Catholicism for Atheism.
 
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