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Just to recap his first ever playoff series at age 21:
update?
Pfft. Dude barely posted a triple double and only added 4 steals. Hit the backbreaking 3 in the last minute but it wasn't a "game winner" so really anyone could have done it. Only shot 50% for the game. Totally overrated.I'm just not seeing championship material here. I mean it's not like they're playing the Clippers.Guy just folded down the stretch today against the league's best defensive team.
What makes you think he wont ever win a championship? The kid is 21 and already a top 3-5 player in the league. He gets his teammates involved. He crashes the boards. He has great vision. He doesnt have that kobme attitude. His one weakness last season was his outside jumper . . . that drastically improved for this season. He is explosive. He has great ball handling. What exactly is the weakness that makes you so sure he will never win a title in the next 10-15 years??? It's not like we have a situation where players dont want to be on his team - the guy is more like Magic/Big O than Jordan.
James looked godawful down the stretch last nite.. just bad.couple really ugly airballs, a traveling call, couple turnovers, a foul. he looked really off last nite.
yet he still finished 1 assist and 2 rebounds shy of another triple double. look, i realize he played poorly down hte stretch last night. But, if a "bad" playoff performance for 21 yr old lebron is 22, 8 and 9 with a win over the league's best team, i cant wait to see what he's doing at 25 or 26.
i never said that.
You also realize that you agreeing with "da guru," right?
only posted here cause it was the active LBJ discussion.
i think he'll win a couple titles.. the guy is phenomenal. just pointing out that he yakked it up in the last few minutes last nite. they still won, he still had great overall numbers, but he was terrible down the stretch.
Jordan hadn't started his rookie season when he was Lebron's age. He's 21 and will struggle once and awhile, but it's absolutely sick what he is doing at his age.Next season Lebron will be the same age as Jordan in his rookie season so let's compare their careers from here on out.
I'll take that bet. 4 titles is very, very, very tough to do.
what would you set the over/under on for LeBron championships? 2?
I'd go 2.5, maybe even 3. Lots of variables in terms of the team that's built around him obviously, but I cannot think of another non-post player that's as advanced as he is at 21. He could realistically be contending for a title within a couple years, and he's not that far off right now, even though I still think the Pistons squeak this one out.
Rings:Shaq - 3
it's amazing how quickly our perceptions of a team change. before the Washington series, the Wizards were picked to win by many "experts"then, going into the Detroit series (and understandably so, especially after the first game) the Cavs weren't given a chance.
2 is a fair number. I don't think he'll win more than that...but I'd be very surprised if his career ended without a title.
That wasn't the question though. However you slice it...Kobe has 3 rings and was a major, major player on those teams. There are only a handful of players in the history of the league that can say that.
True that wasn't the question, and I won't argue with what you said.However I feel that 1 Lebron Championship as the unquestioned leader on his team, is > Multiple Kobe or potentially Wade tag along with Shaq championships.
The Shaq playing with Wade isnt the same Shaq that played with Kobe. The Lakers Shaq was the most dominating player on the planet and could not be stopped. This Shaq is still a great player, but is not as complete or as dominant as the Laker Shaq. Wade makes the Heat go, Shaq made the Lakers go.IMO Kobe does not even reach another NBA finals in his career.
Exactly. The truth is that none of us know for sure. There have surely been some great players to never win a title. However, nothing LBJ has ever done has shown that he doesn't have "it." If there was one player that should win a title during his career, it would be him. We aren't mocking your thoughts because we're sure you're wrong. We're mocking your thoughts because we're sure that you're completely talking out of your ### right now.
Scottie Pippen in his prime was better than Shaq right now. Don't forget that MJ never won without Pippen or without Jackson. Pippen nearly always guarded the other teams' best player too. Funny how quick we are to forget about all that.
Wade is every bit the "major player" on his team right now as MJ was. Shaq has as big of a role as Pippen did. If you're arguing this, then I think you're way underrating Pippen.
Yes.
No.
Jordan:1985-NBA-All-NBA (2nd)
Yes, they win 3 IMO.That team would be more cohesive. I say they could possibly have beaten the Pistons.
Until this year, I never saw anything that would lead me to believe Kobe could lead a team.That changed in the Phoenix series, and I readily admit he played like a champion for at least most of the series.
When has Shaq "lead" a team. They're both great, great weapons. This "leadership" thing gets a little over-hyped imo. These aren't a bunch of 18-19 year olds depending on "senior leadership". Teams win because they have the pieces and lose because they don't for the most part at that level.
and Robert Horry, and Derrick Fisher, ect. Same way Jordan won because of Scottie Pippen, and John Paxson, ect. Same way Magic won because of Kareem and Worthy, ect. Hell, teams with just great starting fives don't win. It almost always takes a solid atleast 7 man rotation. Kobe did not have more help in those title runs than most of the other "great" players who won a title. He happened to get most of that help from one guy but virtually every title team has had a hell of a lot more than one superstar.
They were both amazing defenders. Jordan was probably just as good as Pippen at defending players of the same size, but Pippen was more versatile. I think that's all Assani is saying.Pippen was incredibly important to those Bulls, and he came a hell of a lot closer to winning a title without Jordan (game 7 vs. Lakers in 2000) than Jordan did without him (never won a playoff series). He did all the little things and was a player who could dominate a game without scoring a ton -- he's just not a guy you want taking the last shot and he wasn't as mentally tough as Jordan.
I'll go one farther and say that virtually all of those teams wouldn't have won if their 3rd or even 4th best player went down (some may not have won if any player in the rotation went down). It takes a hell of a lot more than a great player to win a title.
