Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
No. 16

Lebron James will never win a championship...

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I'm convinced LeBron will just leave for another club.  Heck I think its a great possibility the Cavs as a franchise goes elsewhere.  This city can't support 3 teams.

Worrying about something like this right now is beyond ridiculous.

I'm not worried. I hardly thought about the Cavs at all today. I wouldn't have even known they won if it wasn't plastered all over this board.

Too bad. Probably the best thing to happen to your city in a decade.

Sports-wise, Lebron is the best thing for your city since Jim Brown.

Hmm. In the last decade. 1996-2006. Best things to happen:

1. Getting the Browns back in 1999.

2. The incredible playoff run for the Indians in 1997. Upsetting the Yankees in dramatic fashion. Rivera blows it!

I still don't see a reason for the Cavs to want to stay in Cleveland. The city is dying. By the time James is 38-40, the city of Akron, Ohio will be bigger than Cleveland. its stupid to have three teams here.

There are protests outside of Quicken tonight, looks like they might burn the place down. They want the Cavs gone NOW.

Cleveland hates Lebron James. They just don't have enough time for him. :thumbdown:

There is just SO MUCH going on in Ohio. :thumbup:

Browns football and the Columbus Blue Jackets are both bringing it home next year.

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Here are the Cavs' options:

1. Stay in Cleveland, assuming James plays his entire career with the club. Basketball will always be third behind football and baseball here. When James retires in 15-20 years, they lose him as a draw and they are back to being third rate again. And they are third rate in a city that is probably smaller than the Akron-Canton metro area.

2. Move the team to perhaps a smaller city but one that is growing. Use LeBron to build a new fanbase. Then in 20-30 years, you are in a larger city with a fanbase that is energized from the LeBron years.

Its a simple choice to me. I'd move the Cavs as soon as possible. There is no future here.

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Sports-wise, Lebron is the best thing for your city since Jim Brown.

Lebron is okay, but he'll never match the stardom of this guy

Mark Price

Price had to be a lot of little white guys' hero. Kind of like Stockton minus the cheap shots (and proboably with a little better shot).

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Here are the Cavs' options:

1. Stay in Cleveland, assuming James plays his entire career with the club. Basketball will always be third behind football and baseball here. When James retires in 15-20 years, they lose him as a draw and they are back to being third rate again. And they are third rate in a city that is probably smaller than the Akron-Canton metro area.

2. Move the team to perhaps a smaller city but one that is growing. Use LeBron to build a new fanbase. Then in 20-30 years, you are in a larger city with a fanbase that is energized from the LeBron years.

Its a simple choice to me. I'd move the Cavs as soon as possible. There is no future here.

Didn't they just build a new arena?

There's no market to move an NBA team to right now besides Vegas. And that's not going to happen.

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Here are the Cavs' options:

1. Stay in Cleveland, assuming James plays his entire career with the club. Basketball will always be third behind football and baseball here. When James retires in 15-20 years, they lose him as a draw and they are back to being third rate again. And they are third rate in a city that is probably smaller than the Akron-Canton metro area.

2. Move the team to perhaps a smaller city but one that is growing. Use LeBron to build a new fanbase. Then in 20-30 years, you are in a larger city with a fanbase that is energized from the LeBron years.

Its a simple choice to me. I'd move the Cavs as soon as possible. There is no future here.

Didn't they just build a new arena?

There's no market to move an NBA team to right now besides Vegas. And that's not going to happen.

Like I say, I'd have to seriously consider a smaller market but one that is growing. Cleveland is hemmoraging population. Like 10-15% per decade. They cannot stay.

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Here are the Cavs' options:

1.  Stay in Cleveland, assuming James plays his entire career with the club.  Basketball will always be third behind football and baseball here.  When James retires in 15-20 years, they lose him as a draw and they are back to being third rate again.  And they are third rate in a city that is probably smaller than the Akron-Canton metro area.

2.  Move the team to perhaps a smaller city but one that is growing.  Use LeBron to build a new fanbase.  Then in 20-30 years, you are in a larger city with a fanbase that is energized from the LeBron years.

Its a simple choice to me.  I'd move the Cavs as soon as possible.  There is no future here.

Didn't they just build a new arena?

There's no market to move an NBA team to right now besides Vegas. And that's not going to happen.

Like I say, I'd have to seriously consider a smaller market but one that is growing. Cleveland is hemmoraging population. Like 10-15% per decade. They cannot stay.

So you'd take it away from a fanbase that is likely to sell out every ticket next year in a rather new arena to move it to a new city with no ties to the team, with the only reason being that 10-15 years from now the population of the city the team is currently in may have dwindled enough to be unable to support it?

That makes no sense. And besides, what major metro area are you going to move it to?

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Here are the Cavs' options:

1. Stay in Cleveland, assuming James plays his entire career with the club. Basketball will always be third behind football and baseball here. When James retires in 15-20 years, they lose him as a draw and they are back to being third rate again. And they are third rate in a city that is probably smaller than the Akron-Canton metro area.

2. Move the team to perhaps a smaller city but one that is growing. Use LeBron to build a new fanbase. Then in 20-30 years, you are in a larger city with a fanbase that is energized from the LeBron years.

Its a simple choice to me. I'd move the Cavs as soon as possible. There is no future here.

Didn't they just build a new arena?

There's no market to move an NBA team to right now besides Vegas. And that's not going to happen.

Like I say, I'd have to seriously consider a smaller market but one that is growing. Cleveland is hemmoraging population. Like 10-15% per decade. They cannot stay.

So you'd take it away from a fanbase that is likely to sell out every ticket next year in a rather new arena to move it to a new city with no ties to the team, with the only reason being that 10-15 years from now the population of the city the team is currently in may have dwindled enough to be unable to support it?

That makes no sense. And besides, what major metro area are you going to move it to?

Its not an easy situation. But the bottom line is they are going to have to relocate. Would you rather relocate with LeBron to act as a draw or without him? That's all I'm saying. Edited by BGP

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I'm convinced LeBron will just leave for another club.  Heck I think its a great possibility the Cavs as a franchise goes elsewhere.  This city can't support 3 teams.

Worrying about something like this right now is beyond ridiculous.

I'm not worried. I hardly thought about the Cavs at all today. I wouldn't have even known they won if it wasn't plastered all over this board.

Too bad. Probably the best thing to happen to your city in a decade.

Sports-wise, Lebron is the best thing for your city ever.

fixed.

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Here are the Cavs' options:

1.  Stay in Cleveland, assuming James plays his entire career with the club.  Basketball will always be third behind football and baseball here.  When James retires in 15-20 years, they lose him as a draw and they are back to being third rate again.  And they are third rate in a city that is probably smaller than the Akron-Canton metro area.

2.  Move the team to perhaps a smaller city but one that is growing.  Use LeBron to build a new fanbase.  Then in 20-30 years, you are in a larger city with a fanbase that is energized from the LeBron years.

Its a simple choice to me.  I'd move the Cavs as soon as possible.  There is no future here.

Didn't they just build a new arena?

There's no market to move an NBA team to right now besides Vegas. And that's not going to happen.

Like I say, I'd have to seriously consider a smaller market but one that is growing. Cleveland is hemmoraging population. Like 10-15% per decade. They cannot stay.

So you'd take it away from a fanbase that is likely to sell out every ticket next year in a rather new arena to move it to a new city with no ties to the team, with the only reason being that 10-15 years from now the population of the city the team is currently in may have dwindled enough to be unable to support it?

That makes no sense. And besides, what major metro area are you going to move it to?

Its not an easy situation. But the bottom line is they are going to have to relocate. Would you rather relocate with LeBron to act as a draw or without him? That's all I'm saying.

I don't know much about the city of Cleveland, I admit. But it doesn't strike me as the type of area that's going to have a hard time supporting 40 basketball games a year anytime soon. Certainly no more trouble than any other town.

What happens when you move the team, Lebron retires in 15 years and there's no long-term fanbase and no mega-star to support it?

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I'm convinced LeBron will just leave for another club.  Heck I think its a great possibility the Cavs as a franchise goes elsewhere.  This city can't support 3 teams.

Worrying about something like this right now is beyond ridiculous.

I'm not worried. I hardly thought about the Cavs at all today. I wouldn't have even known they won if it wasn't plastered all over this board.

Too bad. Probably the best thing to happen to your city in a decade.

Sports-wise, Lebron is the best thing for your city ever.

fixed.

He has a ways to go to match what Jim Brown did.

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Here are the Cavs' options:

1.  Stay in Cleveland, assuming James plays his entire career with the club.  Basketball will always be third behind football and baseball here.  When James retires in 15-20 years, they lose him as a draw and they are back to being third rate again.  And they are third rate in a city that is probably smaller than the Akron-Canton metro area.

2.  Move the team to perhaps a smaller city but one that is growing.  Use LeBron to build a new fanbase.  Then in 20-30 years, you are in a larger city with a fanbase that is energized from the LeBron years.

Its a simple choice to me.  I'd move the Cavs as soon as possible.  There is no future here.

Didn't they just build a new arena?

There's no market to move an NBA team to right now besides Vegas. And that's not going to happen.

Baltimore!

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I'm convinced LeBron will just leave for another club.  Heck I think its a great possibility the Cavs as a franchise goes elsewhere.  This city can't support 3 teams.

Worrying about something like this right now is beyond ridiculous.

I'm not worried. I hardly thought about the Cavs at all today. I wouldn't have even known they won if it wasn't plastered all over this board.

Too bad. Probably the best thing to happen to your city in a decade.

Sports-wise, Lebron is the best thing for your city ever.

fixed.

He has a ways to go to match what Jim Brown did.

How popular was football back then? I'm not sure, but I'd imagine that Brown was nowhere near the public figure that Lebron is. I'd offer this as a comparison:

Compare Brown to the Beatles

Now compare James to any musical artist today

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Here are the Cavs' options:

1. Stay in Cleveland, assuming James plays his entire career with the club. Basketball will always be third behind football and baseball here. When James retires in 15-20 years, they lose him as a draw and they are back to being third rate again. And they are third rate in a city that is probably smaller than the Akron-Canton metro area.

2. Move the team to perhaps a smaller city but one that is growing. Use LeBron to build a new fanbase. Then in 20-30 years, you are in a larger city with a fanbase that is energized from the LeBron years.

Its a simple choice to me. I'd move the Cavs as soon as possible. There is no future here.

Didn't they just build a new arena?

There's no market to move an NBA team to right now besides Vegas. And that's not going to happen.

Like I say, I'd have to seriously consider a smaller market but one that is growing. Cleveland is hemmoraging population. Like 10-15% per decade. They cannot stay.

So you'd take it away from a fanbase that is likely to sell out every ticket next year in a rather new arena to move it to a new city with no ties to the team, with the only reason being that 10-15 years from now the population of the city the team is currently in may have dwindled enough to be unable to support it?

That makes no sense. And besides, what major metro area are you going to move it to?

Its not an easy situation. But the bottom line is they are going to have to relocate. Would you rather relocate with LeBron to act as a draw or without him? That's all I'm saying.

I don't know much about the city of Cleveland, I admit. But it doesn't strike me as the type of area that's going to have a hard time supporting 40 basketball games a year anytime soon. Certainly no more trouble than any other town.

What happens when you move the team, Lebron retires in 15 years and there's no long-term fanbase and no mega-star to support it?

Cleveland stands at about 570k population as of 2000 with three teams.

Buffalo has about 300k with the Bills and Sabres, which is almost like just having one club.

Cleveland will fall under 400k in 20 years. I think its a given one club goes bye-bye. Heck, I think its possible two might leave Cleveland in 50 years.

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I know this thread has wandered a bit. For a good chuckle go back and read the first post again. :lmao:

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Buffalo has about 300k with the Bills and Sabres, which is almost like just having one club.

what in the world does this mean?

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I know this thread has wandered a bit. For a good chuckle go back and read the first post again. :lmao:

Haven't seen No. 16 for awhile, wonder if he'll suddenly show up when the Cavs lose, if they do?

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Buffalo has about 300k with the Bills and Sabres, which is almost like just having one club.

what in the world does this mean?

No clue. Pretty sure the Sabres are packing them in.

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also, BGP, the Cleveland metropolitan area has 2.25 million people.

Buffalo only has 1 million in the metropolitan area and I'd guess they are losing people a lot quicker than Cleveland is.

Cleveland has plenty of people to support their teams and also has some of the best sports fans on the planet.

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Here are the Cavs' options:

1.  Stay in Cleveland, assuming James plays his entire career with the club.  Basketball will always be third behind football and baseball here.  When James retires in 15-20 years, they lose him as a draw and they are back to being third rate again.  And they are third rate in a city that is probably smaller than the Akron-Canton metro area.

2.  Move the team to perhaps a smaller city but one that is growing.  Use LeBron to build a new fanbase.  Then in 20-30 years, you are in a larger city with a fanbase that is energized from the LeBron years.

Its a simple choice to me.  I'd move the Cavs as soon as possible.  There is no future here.

Didn't they just build a new arena?

There's no market to move an NBA team to right now besides Vegas. And that's not going to happen.

Like I say, I'd have to seriously consider a smaller market but one that is growing. Cleveland is hemmoraging population. Like 10-15% per decade. They cannot stay.

So you'd take it away from a fanbase that is likely to sell out every ticket next year in a rather new arena to move it to a new city with no ties to the team, with the only reason being that 10-15 years from now the population of the city the team is currently in may have dwindled enough to be unable to support it?

That makes no sense. And besides, what major metro area are you going to move it to?

Its not an easy situation. But the bottom line is they are going to have to relocate. Would you rather relocate with LeBron to act as a draw or without him? That's all I'm saying.

I don't know much about the city of Cleveland, I admit. But it doesn't strike me as the type of area that's going to have a hard time supporting 40 basketball games a year anytime soon. Certainly no more trouble than any other town.

What happens when you move the team, Lebron retires in 15 years and there's no long-term fanbase and no mega-star to support it?

Cleveland stands at about 570k population as of 2000 with three teams.

Buffalo has about 300k with the Bills and Sabres, which is almost like just having one club.

Cleveland will fall under 400k in 20 years. I think its a given one club goes bye-bye. Heck, I think its possible two might leave Cleveland in 50 years.

So Buffalo has two teams that they support very well with 300k people -- but Cleveland can't support one extra team with twice the population?

You saying Cleveland will lose 200,000 people in 20 years is nothing more than speculation.

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Either way, refusing to support a team based on this reasoning is beyond comprehension for me.

But whatever. No skin off my back.

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Look at Jacksonville. I don't know how good of a sports town it is. Maybe it sucks in 2006. But the population will be over 1 million by the time James retires. I dunno, maybe with another generation passed, the city will settle in and become more friendly to sports? Even if the Cavs drew a third of the interest in Jacksonville, there's 3 times the population by then. Is it THAT horrible of a sports town?

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Look at Jacksonville. I don't know how good of a sports town it is. Maybe it sucks in 2006. But the population will be over 1 million by the time James retires. I dunno, maybe with another generation passed, the city will settle in and become more friendly to sports? Even if the Cavs drew a third of the interest in Jacksonville, there's 3 times the population by then. Is it THAT horrible of a sports town?

metropolitan area

Cleveland - 2.25 million

Jacksonville - 1.21 million

Jacksonville can't even support their NFL franchise, and you want to give them an NBA team as well?

:loco:

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Cleveland will fall under 400k in 20 years. I think its a given one club goes bye-bye. Heck, I think its possible two might leave Cleveland in 50 years.

I call bull#### on this.

Link

The population of the metropolitan area in 1980 was 2,278,000, but by 1990 it totaled 2,202,000, or a decrease of 3.3 percent. The trend reversed in the 1990s. In 2004 the population was 2,137,000. Accurately characterizing the population of the metropolitan area is difficult because the fastest growing regions in 1990 actually were outside the officially designated area. For example, northern Summit County, while in Cleveland’s economic and cultural orbit, is counted as part of the Akron metropolitan area.

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I know this thread has wandered a bit. For a good chuckle go back and read the first post again.  :lmao:

Haven't seen No. 16 for awhile, wonder if he'll suddenly show up when the Cavs lose, if they do?

I'm pretty confident that the Cavs won't win it all this year. However, I'm fairly certain No. 16 will claim victory on his stance for years until the Cavs led by LJ wins it all. Even then he'll probably start in with the "He's no Jordan" line.

Here's part of his first post:

LBJ will never win an NBA championship. He doesnt have the killer instinct or clutch play to become the best. He'll never be Magic and no way will he ever be Jordan.

Being so stubborn to not admit he was even partially wrong makes him look, well, I have my opinion. I'm sure he'll be taken to task by others for taking that stance.

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Look at Jacksonville. I don't know how good of a sports town it is. Maybe it sucks in 2006. But the population will be over 1 million by the time James retires. I dunno, maybe with another generation passed, the city will settle in and become more friendly to sports? Even if the Cavs drew a third of the interest in Jacksonville, there's 3 times the population by then. Is it THAT horrible of a sports town?

metropolitan area

Cleveland - 2.25 million

Jacksonville - 1.21 million

Jacksonville can't even support their NFL franchise, and you want to give them an NBA team as well?

:loco:

Jacksonville itself will probably be at 1.2 million in twenty years. Nevermind a developing metro area.

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Put this down in history.

LBJ will never win an NBA championship. He doesnt have the killer instinct or clutch play to become the best. He'll never be Magic and no way will he ever be Jordan.

I still think he'll become one of the best players in the NBA, but he'll be just like Peyton Manning. All stats and no rings.

If it takes a supposed franchise savior 3 NBA season before he hits a game winner... there's a problem. What's even worse is he has been considered "the man" practially since he put on a Cavs jersey.

Wade amd Melo on the other hand will win their fair share of championships.

Just double checking here....

So Carmelo Anthony....the same guy who was in an anti-snitch video, the same guy who has been suspended for character issues, the same guy who has never been out of the first round of the playoffs, the same guy who had problems with the coaches on the USA team...he has that special "it", but LBJ doesn't?

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Look at Jacksonville.  I don't know how good of a sports town it is.  Maybe it sucks in 2006.  But the population will be over 1 million by the time James retires.  I dunno, maybe with another generation passed, the city will settle in and become more friendly to sports?  Even if the Cavs drew a third of the interest in Jacksonville, there's 3 times the population by then.  Is it THAT horrible of a sports town?

metropolitan area

Cleveland - 2.25 million

Jacksonville - 1.21 million

Jacksonville can't even support their NFL franchise, and you want to give them an NBA team as well?

:loco:

Jacksonville itself will probably be at 1.2 million in twenty years. Nevermind a developing metro area.

Florida already has two teams, neither of which are overwhelmingly supported.

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Look at Jacksonville.  I don't know how good of a sports town it is.  Maybe it sucks in 2006.  But the population will be over 1 million by the time James retires.  I dunno, maybe with another generation passed, the city will settle in and become more friendly to sports?  Even if the Cavs drew a third of the interest in Jacksonville, there's 3 times the population by then.  Is it THAT horrible of a sports town?

metropolitan area

Cleveland - 2.25 million

Jacksonville - 1.21 million

Jacksonville can't even support their NFL franchise, and you want to give them an NBA team as well?

:loco:

Jacksonville itself will probably be at 1.2 million in twenty years. Nevermind a developing metro area.

they will also likely be without a professional sports franchise b/c the Jaguars aren't drawing well there.

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Look at Jacksonville. I don't know how good of a sports town it is. Maybe it sucks in 2006. But the population will be over 1 million by the time James retires. I dunno, maybe with another generation passed, the city will settle in and become more friendly to sports? Even if the Cavs drew a third of the interest in Jacksonville, there's 3 times the population by then. Is it THAT horrible of a sports town?

metropolitan area

Cleveland - 2.25 million

Jacksonville - 1.21 million

Jacksonville can't even support their NFL franchise, and you want to give them an NBA team as well?

:loco:

Jacksonville itself will probably be at 1.2 million in twenty years. Nevermind a developing metro area.

Florida already has two teams, neither of which are overwhelmingly supported.

I'm not debating that. But it looks to me like Jax is the sort of town you'd have to consider because its growing like a weed. Maybe Florida sports support sucks in 2006, but do you think it will always be that way? Edited by BGP

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a few more wins and this thread has massive potential

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Look at Jacksonville.  I don't know how good of a sports town it is.  Maybe it sucks in 2006.  But the population will be over 1 million by the time James retires.  I dunno, maybe with another generation passed, the city will settle in and become more friendly to sports?  Even if the Cavs drew a third of the interest in Jacksonville, there's 3 times the population by then.  Is it THAT horrible of a sports town?

metropolitan area

Cleveland - 2.25 million

Jacksonville - 1.21 million

Jacksonville can't even support their NFL franchise, and you want to give them an NBA team as well?

:loco:

Jacksonville itself will probably be at 1.2 million in twenty years. Nevermind a developing metro area.

Florida already has two teams, neither of which are overwhelmingly supported.

I'm not debating that. But it looks to me like Jax is the sort of town you'd have to consider because its growing like a weed. Maybe Florida sports support sucks in 2006, but do you think it will always be that way?

Florida sports support doesn't suck at all. But there's no market for three NBA teams here. It's probably the 4th sport, easily 5th if you count in college football and even 6th or 7th if you get into Nascar or golf.

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Cleveland stands at about 570k population as of 2000 with three teams.

Buffalo has about 300k with the Bills and Sabres, which is almost like just having one club.

Cleveland will fall under 400k in 20 years. I think its a given one club goes bye-bye. Heck, I think its possible two might leave Cleveland in 50 years.

Aren't a lot of those people just moving out of the city into the suburbs (US Census metro areas)? How has the metro area population changed in the last 20 years, and what is the prognosis for the next 50?

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Look at Jacksonville. I don't know how good of a sports town it is. Maybe it sucks in 2006. But the population will be over 1 million by the time James retires. I dunno, maybe with another generation passed, the city will settle in and become more friendly to sports? Even if the Cavs drew a third of the interest in Jacksonville, there's 3 times the population by then. Is it THAT horrible of a sports town?

metropolitan area

Cleveland - 2.25 million

Jacksonville - 1.21 million

Jacksonville can't even support their NFL franchise, and you want to give them an NBA team as well?

:loco:

Jacksonville itself will probably be at 1.2 million in twenty years. Nevermind a developing metro area.

they will also likely be without a professional sports franchise b/c the Jaguars aren't drawing well there.

Well the NFL isn't even in Los Angeles so I guess that is understandable.

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Try this one. St. Louis population:

1950: 856k

1960: 750k

1970: 622k

1980: 453k

1990: 396k

2000: 351k

They lost the football Cardinals, and basically had just one major sports club at that point in the baseball Cardinals. They got the Rams, but that's still just two. Cleveland has three. That's not gonna work for Cleveland.

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Try this one. St. Louis population:

1950: 856k

1960: 750k

1970: 622k

1980: 453k

1990: 396k

2000: 351k

Surrounding areas down?

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Try this one.  St. Louis population:

1950: 856k

1960: 750k

1970: 622k

1980: 453k

1990: 396k

2000: 351k

Surrounding areas down?

I had the same thought. Urban sprawl is a reality. Tons of people are leaving the cities and moving into the surrounding suburbs.

I just got done watching a local news report on which public schools in the Seattle city limits were possibly going to be shut down. The cause was that people are simply leaving the city, but the population of King county is still growing.

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Try this one. St. Louis population:

1950: 856k

1960: 750k

1970: 622k

1980: 453k

1990: 396k

2000: 351k

Surrounding areas down?

I'm not sure what you are getting at. St. Louis dropped to just one club in the baseball Cardinals for a time. I think that shows surrounding areas aren't as important. Heck, some include Akron as part of the Cleveland metro area, which I think is dumb because its an hour away and few really are gonna drive that distance with their season tickets. Edited by BGP

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Try this one. St. Louis population:

1950: 856k

1960: 750k

1970: 622k

1980: 453k

1990: 396k

2000: 351k

They lost the football Cardinals, and basically had just one major sports club at that point in the baseball Cardinals. They got the Rams, but that's still just two. Cleveland has three. That's not gonna work for Cleveland.

St Louis Blues down?

also, why are you so hung up on the city population? you don't think people from the suburbs can help support a sports franchise?

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Try this one. St. Louis population:

1950: 856k

1960: 750k

1970: 622k

1980: 453k

1990: 396k

2000: 351k

They lost the football Cardinals, and basically had just one major sports club at that point in the baseball Cardinals. They got the Rams, but that's still just two. Cleveland has three. That's not gonna work for Cleveland.

St Louis Blues down?

also, why are you so hung up on the city population? you don't think people from the suburbs can help support a sports franchise?

Do I think people in Akron will drive one hour each way with season tickets and gas at $3 per gallon? No.

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I'm convinced LeBron will just leave for another club.  Heck I think its a great possibility the Cavs as a franchise goes elsewhere.  This city can't support 3 teams.

Worrying about something like this right now is beyond ridiculous.

I'm not worried. I hardly thought about the Cavs at all today. I wouldn't have even known they won if it wasn't plastered all over this board.

Too bad. Probably the best thing to happen to your city in a decade.

Sports-wise, Lebron is the best thing for your city since Jim Brown.

Hmm. In the last decade. 1996-2006. Best things to happen:

1. Getting the Browns back in 1999.

2. The incredible playoff run for the Indians in 1997. Upsetting the Yankees in dramatic fashion. Rivera blows it!

I still don't see a reason for the Cavs to want to stay in Cleveland. The city is dying. By the time James is 38-40, the city of Akron, Ohio will be bigger than Cleveland. its stupid to have three teams here.

Getting LeBron o\/\/ns those things.

LeBron is the best thing in basketball since Jordan. Any NBA team would give up any player for him.

Nobody would give up a bag of rocks for the neo-Browns or Indians.

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I'm not sure what you are getting at. St. Louis dropped to just one club in the baseball Cardinals for a time. I think that shows surrounding areas aren't as important. Heck, some include Akron as part of the Cleveland metro area, which I think is dumb because its an hour away and few really are gonna drive that distance with their season tickets.

Rochester, NY is an hour away from Buffalo but people there regularly drive to Buffalo for Bills and Sabres games. Heck, some Bills season ticket holders come from as far away as Albany. And, plenty of people from the Toronto area come down to Bills and Sabres games, which is at least a 90 to 120 minute drive.

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Surrounding areas down?

I'm not sure what you are getting at.

He's saying that you should count all the folks in the surrounding suburbs, or at least research the population of the county to see how its changing.

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I'm not sure what you are getting at. St. Louis dropped to just one club in the baseball Cardinals for a time. I think that shows surrounding areas aren't as important. Heck, some include Akron as part of the Cleveland metro area, which I think is dumb because its an hour away and few really are gonna drive that distance with their season tickets.

Rochester, NY is an hour away from Buffalo but people there regularly drive to Buffalo for Bills and Sabres games. Heck, some Bills season ticket holders come from as far away as Albany. And, plenty of people from the Toronto area come down to Bills and Sabres games, which is at least a 90 to 120 minute drive.

I don't think its the same thing. You're talking 8 home games for the Bills and then an NHL franchise. In Cleveland its 8 home games for the Browns, 81 home games for the Indans, and 41 home games for the Cavs.

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Surrounding areas down?

I'm not sure what you are getting at.

He's saying that you should count all the folks in the surrounding suburbs, or at least research the population of the county to see how its changing.

Doesn't make sense if St. Louis fell to just one club with a metro area of 2.7 million. That's a larger metro area than Cleveland. What DID change for St. Louis was a rapid drop in city population.

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If you want a case to be made for metro areas, I guess you could look at Atlanta. They have only 419k city population but 4.7m in metro population. But even then, its not the same thing. Atlanta's city population is growing. Cleveland's city population is collapsing.

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I'm not sure what you are getting at.  St. Louis dropped to just one club in the baseball Cardinals for a time.  I think that shows surrounding areas aren't as important.  Heck, some include Akron as part of the Cleveland metro area, which I think is dumb because its an hour away and few really are gonna drive that distance with their season tickets.

Rochester, NY is an hour away from Buffalo but people there regularly drive to Buffalo for Bills and Sabres games. Heck, some Bills season ticket holders come from as far away as Albany. And, plenty of people from the Toronto area come down to Bills and Sabres games, which is at least a 90 to 120 minute drive.

I don't think its the same thing. You're talking 8 home games for the Bills and then an NHL franchise. In Cleveland its 8 home games for the Browns, 81 home games for the Indans, and 41 home games for the Cavs.

The Indians and Browns are two of the best supported teams in their respective sports. They have a long history and a loyal fanbase. They are not going to have any trouble drawing fans.

And LeBron is the savior of the entire NBA. His presence alone will create so many Cavaliers fans in the next 15 years, that the Cavs will have no trouble thriving in that market for decades to come.

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Surrounding areas down?

I'm not sure what you are getting at.

He's saying that you should count all the folks in the surrounding suburbs, or at least research the population of the county to see how its changing.

Doesn't make sense if St. Louis fell to just one club with a metro area of 2.7 million. That's a larger metro area than Cleveland. What DID change for St. Louis was a rapid drop in city population.

St Louis Blues were founded in 1967 and made the playoffs every year from 1980 to 2004.

why do you keep pretending as if they don't exist?

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Surrounding areas down?

I'm not sure what you are getting at.

He's saying that you should count all the folks in the surrounding suburbs, or at least research the population of the county to see how its changing.

Doesn't make sense if St. Louis fell to just one club with a metro area of 2.7 million. That's a larger metro area than Cleveland. What DID change for St. Louis was a rapid drop in city population.

Can we factor in the hands-down worst owner in the NFL?

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