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How's your housing market? (1 Viewer)

Again, a house going for 600k now will NOT go for $300 in two years.
In 1998, I'm guessing you would have said "a house going for $200k now will NOT be going for $600k in 7 years".
No, I was renting a pad off Central Park West and tapping a lot of tail to even THINK about the RE market in 98.I can always see the market though jumping big time but going from 600k to 300k? No, I don't.

Banks who foreclose aren't going to "take what they can get", they need to cover the loan. If the loan out is for 400K you aren't going to swoop in and get it for 300k.
:confused: There are going to be literally THOUSANDS of foreclosed homes where the bank will not be able to cover the loan. Do you understand how foreclosures in downturns work?I believe that a significant correction is in order. 200k condos in 1998 should be far closer to 300k than 600k in the near future. Just as rampant speculation drove this market way past any bubble in US history, it's a long, long way back to the mean.

The "no way a home will fall in half" argument is meaningless without some type of statistical backing. Why won't it fall in half? B/c you say so?
Fine. I'll play your game. Tell me why they will fall in half. Because you say so?I would love for them to fall in half, will pick me up a couple and rent them out.
I have a client who was going to sell his house while the going was good and the house is assessed at $275,000 and he probably could have sold it for $399,000 - $420,000 - if it was in really good shape and didn't need any work. He didn't sell it because of his job.Now, if he tried to sell it, he would probably get no more then $325,000 tops. And I know his mortgage is in the $230,000 range. So he went from clearing roughly $170,000 on a potential sale to clearing about $100,000 on a potential sale.

 
South Jersey fell off the table. It's the extreme in the opposite direction. There is probably going to be a correction the other way, but right now the buyers are running things like dictators and the sellers are getting sqaushed like bugs.
are there any good deals in South Jersey? Interested in knowing, the closer to NYC the better.
 
South Jersey fell off the table.  It's the extreme in the opposite direction.  There is probably going to be a correction the other way, but right now the buyers are running things like dictators and the sellers are getting sqaushed like bugs.
are there any good deals in South Jersey? Interested in knowing, the closer to NYC the better.
Not a realtor, couldn't tell you. I only deal with them after the contract is written or the fit hits the shan.
 
My wife and I bought our house in San Mateo in 2000.  I was SURE when we bought it that we were paying too much, that we were buying at a market top (we closed like 2 months after the 2000 stock crash) and that we would lose money (on paper).  It turns out to have appreciated about 60% in 6 years.  If I had gone with my gut, we would have totally missed this run-up and probably wouldn't be able to afford a house in SF for years.

Tommy, you should really consider the possibility that you're wrong about your market, what that would mean about your decisions, and how to mitigate the damage.  I'm not saying that SD isn't prime to give back some gains, but expecting a huge (50%) correction just because that's what you need to get in seems a lot like wishful thinking.
Glad you were able to get in and ride the wave up. :thumbup: I consider the possibility of being wrong everyday - but all of my research points to a serious decline. I just can't justify buying right now, doubling/tripling my rent, just to say I own, and locking in at ~ 7%.

I can get into the market right now, I just don't think it's the best bet. I don't know how low the SD market will drop, but I'm fairly certain 25-33% is the absolute minimum. :shrug:
how long have you been saying this?how much is your rent? when i lived in PB mine was $1000 a month.(7 years ago) i lived there for 2 years. that's 24K that i gave to somebody. i'll never see it again. almost 5 years ago i bought a house in south orange county. it was at "the peak". the "bubble" was about to burst. people told me i was crazy. my house is now valued at 100% more than when i bought it. will it go down a bit in the next 3-5 years? maybe. but what matters, & a lot of naysayers forget, is it ONLY matters how much your house is worth WHEN you sell it.

so in 10 years will my house be worth more or less? THAN WHEN I BOUGHT IT. more, no doubt.

can i rent it for more than my mortgage? yep.

& as someone mentioned before it's not how much the house costs, it's can you pay the monthly nut.

bottom line the moral of the story is get in when you can. you have to start somewhere. if i had waited, i would s.o.l. right now, with virtually no hope of ever owning a house in this area.
Sounds like you made the right decision. I'm not facing the same set of circumstances. Right now, there is NO doubt that the market is in decline, just doubts about how far it will fall. Would you buy at these astronomical, fundamentally out of whack prices if you knew prices were falling?The market is far more risky than it was when you bought. If my wife and I bought a 400k townhouse, and it fell 25% (very likely), we'd be stuck in it until the next boom, which could be 10-15 years away. I plan on being in my first home ~ 10 years, but I don't want to be chained to it.

"Get in when you can" is a great theory for folks like you who did well years ago, but it's a devastating, painful theory for folks who bought in the fall of '05, and who are likely underwater right now, with the freefall just beginning.
once again, it only matters how much the house is worth twice. once when you buy it & once when you sell it. the more important of the two being when you sell it. if you bought a house in 91(horrible time for RE) & still had it now, you'd be sitting on a gold mine. are you telling us that in 10 years(your example above) homes will still be the same price or lower than they are now in SD? unlikely.if you can afford the payment, market fluctuations shouldn't effect you unless you decide to sell on a down turn. it's like the stock market, leave it in there & you'll make money. hence my theory, get in while you can. it's costing you $850 month + tax credits while you make your decision. i think the maximum correction you will see in desireable areas to live will be 10-15%. it's a simple case of supply & demand.

i will always advocate buying real estate. i now have 4 properties(2 of which i bought in dec, 05) & see RE as the best way to solidify mine & my families future. if i do nothing but pay off these properties i/we are set.

 
My wife and I bought our house in San Mateo in 2000. I was SURE when we bought it that we were paying too much, that we were buying at a market top (we closed like 2 months after the 2000 stock crash) and that we would lose money (on paper). It turns out to have appreciated about 60% in 6 years. If I had gone with my gut, we would have totally missed this run-up and probably wouldn't be able to afford a house in SF for years.

Tommy, you should really consider the possibility that you're wrong about your market, what that would mean about your decisions, and how to mitigate the damage. I'm not saying that SD isn't prime to give back some gains, but expecting a huge (50%) correction just because that's what you need to get in seems a lot like wishful thinking.
Glad you were able to get in and ride the wave up. :thumbup: I consider the possibility of being wrong everyday - but all of my research points to a serious decline. I just can't justify buying right now, doubling/tripling my rent, just to say I own, and locking in at ~ 7%.

I can get into the market right now, I just don't think it's the best bet. I don't know how low the SD market will drop, but I'm fairly certain 25-33% is the absolute minimum. :shrug:
how long have you been saying this?how much is your rent? when i lived in PB mine was $1000 a month.(7 years ago) i lived there for 2 years. that's 24K that i gave to somebody. i'll never see it again. almost 5 years ago i bought a house in south orange county. it was at "the peak". the "bubble" was about to burst. people told me i was crazy. my house is now valued at 100% more than when i bought it. will it go down a bit in the next 3-5 years? maybe. but what matters, & a lot of naysayers forget, is it ONLY matters how much your house is worth WHEN you sell it.

so in 10 years will my house be worth more or less? THAN WHEN I BOUGHT IT. more, no doubt.

can i rent it for more than my mortgage? yep.

& as someone mentioned before it's not how much the house costs, it's can you pay the monthly nut.

bottom line the moral of the story is get in when you can. you have to start somewhere. if i had waited, i would s.o.l. right now, with virtually no hope of ever owning a house in this area.
Sounds like you made the right decision. I'm not facing the same set of circumstances. Right now, there is NO doubt that the market is in decline, just doubts about how far it will fall. Would you buy at these astronomical, fundamentally out of whack prices if you knew prices were falling?The market is far more risky than it was when you bought. If my wife and I bought a 400k townhouse, and it fell 25% (very likely), we'd be stuck in it until the next boom, which could be 10-15 years away. I plan on being in my first home ~ 10 years, but I don't want to be chained to it.

"Get in when you can" is a great theory for folks like you who did well years ago, but it's a devastating, painful theory for folks who bought in the fall of '05, and who are likely underwater right now, with the freefall just beginning.
once again, it only matters how much the house is worth twice. once when you buy it & once when you sell it.
I disagree. People who are underwater in their homes and are chained to a house they don't want to live in anymore would strongly disagree with you.
the more important of the two being when you sell it. if you bought a house in 91(horrible time for RE) & still had it now, you'd be sitting on a gold mine. are you telling us that in 10 years(your example above) homes will still be the same price or lower than they are now in SD? unlikely.

if you can afford the payment, market fluctuations shouldn't effect you unless you decide to sell on a down turn. it's like the stock market, leave it in there & you'll make money. hence my theory, get in while you can. it's costing you $850 month + tax credits while you make your decision. i think the maximum correction you will see in desireable areas to live will be 10-15%. it's a simple case of supply & demand.

i will always advocate buying real estate. i now have 4 properties(2 of which i bought in dec, 05) & see RE as the best way to solidify mine & my families future. if i do nothing but pay off these properties i/we are set.
That's awesome. I'm glad you've done well. :thumbup: But I hope you recognize that we've just seen the end of the greatest boom in the history of US real estate, and in every prior cycle, housing has declined back to a long term 3-4% growth period, meaning much if not all of the boom gains were given back. This is not my opinion, this is fact.

Perhaps you believe that this boom will defy history. That's fine. But the burden of proof is on you.

 
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If my wife and I bought a 400k townhouse, and it fell 25% (very likely)....
you honestly think that townhouse will go down 100K? in SD? what part are you interested in?
The asking price on a home down the street from me dropped 100k in less than 6 months, and it's still on the market. Granted, it was probably somewhat overpriced to begin with, but it's still for sale, and the decline is just beginning.When you see townhouses that sold for 185k in 2000 selling for 500k+ during the height of the market (04 and 05), why is it so surprising that it could drop to 400k or even 300k?

300k is still a phenomenal gain for 6-8 years on a 200k investment.

 
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i'm not looking to defy history. i just don't think homes in HIGHLY desireable areas will ever go drastically down. "they're not making anymore land"

& as far as people being miserable in their homes, haven't most of them been in them no more than 5 years? most less time than that. :confused:

 
If my wife and I bought a 400k townhouse, and it fell 25% (very likely)....
you honestly think that townhouse will go down 100K? in SD? what part are you interested in?
The asking price on a home down the street from me dropped 100k in less than 6 months, and it's still on the market. Granted, it was probably somewhat overpriced to begin with, but it's still for sale, and the decline is just beginning.When you see townhouses that sold for 185k in 2000 selling for 500k+ during the height of the market (04 and 05), why is it so surprising that it could drop to 400k or even 300k?

300k is still a phenomenal gain for 6-8 years on a 200k investment.
i'm not talking about the bull#### price the condo is initially listed at/ i'm talking about fair market value. if the average condo is actually SELLING at 400K right now, you think it'll go down 100K? in what time frame?
 
i'm not looking to defy history. i just don't think homes in HIGHLY desireable areas will ever go drastically down. "they're not making anymore land"
but they weren't making anymore land in 2000 either, when the home was 1/3 of the price. Has the land severely dried up in the past 5 years?Or did interest rates allow more people to buy, leading to speculation that got out of control, and which lead to unrealistic price gains?

 
If my wife and I bought a 400k townhouse, and it fell 25% (very likely)....
you honestly think that townhouse will go down 100K? in SD? what part are you interested in?
The asking price on a home down the street from me dropped 100k in less than 6 months, and it's still on the market. Granted, it was probably somewhat overpriced to begin with, but it's still for sale, and the decline is just beginning.When you see townhouses that sold for 185k in 2000 selling for 500k+ during the height of the market (04 and 05), why is it so surprising that it could drop to 400k or even 300k?

300k is still a phenomenal gain for 6-8 years on a 200k investment.
i'm not talking about the bull#### price the condo is initially listed at/ i'm talking about fair market value. if the average condo is actually SELLING at 400K right now, you think it'll go down 100K? in what time frame?
"fair market value" changes monthly. I know that the median home price in San Diego in Nov was 518k, and now it's 488. I believe that median will be far below 400k within the next few years.
 
If my wife and I bought a 400k townhouse, and it fell 25% (very likely)....
you honestly think that townhouse will go down 100K? in SD? what part are you interested in?
The asking price on a home down the street from me dropped 100k in less than 6 months, and it's still on the market. Granted, it was probably somewhat overpriced to begin with, but it's still for sale, and the decline is just beginning.When you see townhouses that sold for 185k in 2000 selling for 500k+ during the height of the market (04 and 05), why is it so surprising that it could drop to 400k or even 300k?

300k is still a phenomenal gain for 6-8 years on a 200k investment.
i'm not talking about the bull#### price the condo is initially listed at/ i'm talking about fair market value. if the average condo is actually SELLING at 400K right now, you think it'll go down 100K? in what time frame?
"fair market value" changes monthly. I know that the median home price in San Diego in Nov was 518k, and now it's 488. I believe that median will be far below 400k within the next few years.
I think you're nuts. Median home price in King County (where I live) is $405k and most are predicting that's going up over the next four years. You think San Diego's going to be cheaper real estate than Seattle here before too long?
I'm sure there are exclusive areas of Seattle where the median price is higher then the overall median price in San Diego.I have no idea what the Seattle market will do - I've never even traveled there, much less researched the RE market.

Are the key indicators suggesting growth in Seattle? I know the local economy has been very strong recently. Have salaries kept up with recent housing price increases?

 
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Still - San Diego cheaper than Seattle? Does this make sense?
About as much sense as a condo sold in 2000 for 185 going for 500 in 2005.Just read this on a blog:

My name is Steven Krystofiak, President of the Mortgage Broker Association for Responsible Lending. www.mbarl.org I have a letter in a word document form that highlights the risks of the current loan industry unrealized by regulators and economists alike, mainly due to stated income loans.

Email me at contact@mbarl.org if you want me to send you a copy.

~ Steve Krystofiak

www.mbarl.org

A recent sample of 100 stated income loans which were compared to IRS records (which is allowed through IRS forms 4506, but hardly done) found that 90% of the income was exaggerated by 5% or more. MORE DISTURBINGLY, ALMOST 60% OF THE STATED AMOUNTS WERE EXAGGERATED BY MORE THAN 50%. These results suggest that the stated income loans deserves the nickname used by many in the industry, the “liar’s loan.”

13 main points in the letter are;

1. Stated income loans are associated with fraud, and started to become popular in 2002.

2. Banks originate these loans because they are profitable and then sell them to reduce their risk.

3. Fraud is encouraged by the banks

4. Stated income loans help no one.

5. Exotic loans originated with stated income are now causing foreclosures or forcing homeowners to refinance into negatively amortized loans.

6. Stated income loans are why home prices have skyrocketed. They have caused a large demand in the US housing supply.

7. Banks have sold their loans and have already made their profit. Investors will soon realize stated income loans are too risky and stop purchasing them.

8. Almost anyone can get a stated income loan for $950,000.

9. Stated income loans cost consumers hundreds of dollars a year because of higher interest rates.

10. Stated income loans allow tax cheats to purchase homes easier.

11. Stated income loans are not always faster than fully documented loans.

12. Appraised values are often inflated. Underwriters are basing their decision on inflated home values, inflated incomes and inflated assets. The only “real” number is the FICO (credit) score. This is why underwriters have become focused on FICO scores.

13. Rules are not enough, they must be enforced.
There's a PDF link to the report. Maybe I'll give it a read and see it there is any validity.
 
Still - San Diego cheaper than Seattle? Does this make sense?
About as much sense as a condo sold in 2000 for 185 going for 500 in 2005.Just read this on a blog:

My name is Steven Krystofiak, President of the Mortgage Broker Association for Responsible Lending. www.mbarl.org I have a letter in a word document form that highlights the risks of the current loan industry unrealized by regulators and economists alike, mainly due to stated income loans.

Email me at contact@mbarl.org if you want me to send you a copy.

~ Steve Krystofiak

www.mbarl.org

A recent sample of 100 stated income loans which were compared to IRS records (which is allowed through IRS forms 4506, but hardly done) found that 90% of the income was exaggerated by 5% or more. MORE DISTURBINGLY, ALMOST 60% OF THE STATED AMOUNTS WERE EXAGGERATED BY MORE THAN 50%. These results suggest that the stated income loans deserves the nickname used by many in the industry, the “liar’s loan.”

13 main points in the letter are;

1. Stated income loans are associated with fraud, and started to become popular in 2002.

2. Banks originate these loans because they are profitable and then sell them to reduce their risk.

3. Fraud is encouraged by the banks

4. Stated income loans help no one.

5. Exotic loans originated with stated income are now causing foreclosures or forcing homeowners to refinance into negatively amortized loans.

6. Stated income loans are why home prices have skyrocketed. They have caused a large demand in the US housing supply.

7. Banks have sold their loans and have already made their profit. Investors will soon realize stated income loans are too risky and stop purchasing them.

8. Almost anyone can get a stated income loan for $950,000.

9. Stated income loans cost consumers hundreds of dollars a year because of higher interest rates.

10. Stated income loans allow tax cheats to purchase homes easier.

11. Stated income loans are not always faster than fully documented loans.

12. Appraised values are often inflated. Underwriters are basing their decision on inflated home values, inflated incomes and inflated assets. The only “real” number is the FICO (credit) score. This is why underwriters have become focused on FICO scores.

13. Rules are not enough, they must be enforced.
There's a PDF link to the report. Maybe I'll give it a read and see it there is any validity.
This has what to do with the San Diego real estate market? :confused:
probably nothing - like I said, I haven't even read the piece, but since was going back and forth with a you (aren't you a mortgage guy) while reading this on another site, I thought you may have a comment. :shrug:

 
i'm not looking to defy history.  i just don't think homes in HIGHLY desireable areas will ever go drastically down.  "they're not making anymore land" 
but they weren't making anymore land in 2000 either, when the home was 1/3 of the price. Has the land severely dried up in the past 5 years?Or did interest rates allow more people to buy, leading to speculation that got out of control, and which lead to unrealistic price gains?
it has in south orange county. there is no more room to build. especially on the ocean side of the freeway.
 
I didn't read 6 pages so I may be off.

SD crashing?? City, yes. County, no. Wow. Take a drive around the county. Concentrate on north county/coastal. Get back to me on how it is crashing.

 
If my wife and I bought a 400k townhouse, and it fell 25% (very likely)....
you honestly think that townhouse will go down 100K? in SD? what part are you interested in?
The asking price on a home down the street from me dropped 100k in less than 6 months, and it's still on the market. Granted, it was probably somewhat overpriced to begin with, but it's still for sale, and the decline is just beginning.When you see townhouses that sold for 185k in 2000 selling for 500k+ during the height of the market (04 and 05), why is it so surprising that it could drop to 400k or even 300k?

300k is still a phenomenal gain for 6-8 years on a 200k investment.
i'm not talking about the bull#### price the condo is initially listed at/ i'm talking about fair market value. if the average condo is actually SELLING at 400K right now, you think it'll go down 100K? in what time frame?
"fair market value" changes monthly. I know that the median home price in San Diego in Nov was 518k, and now it's 488. I believe that median will be far below 400k within the next few years.
so in 9 months it dropped 6%. which projects out to a 7.5% loss a year. so in 11/08 you expect the market to have dipped 22.5% give or take. in the same time frame, 3 years from 11/05, you will have spent 30K on rent & missed out on 3 years of tax breaks. :shrug: don't get me wrong tommygunz, i want you to have a house!

 
I didn't read 6 pages so I may be off.

SD crashing?? City, yes. County, no. Wow. Take a drive around the county. Concentrate on north county/coastal. Get back to me on how it is crashing.
:goodposting:
 
San Diego County median down YOY in July, only the second month in the past decade that the median has been negative YOY (June '06 was the first).

There were 3,370 closed escrows last month, down 29.3 percent from year-ago levels, and off 21.7 percent from June, the biggest retreat from any June to July since DataQuick began keeping records in 1988.

“We need to watch the sales pace closely because that was an unusually sharp decline between June and July,” said DataQuick analyst Andrew LePage. “Maybe it's a one-month deal or it's the beginning of a more forceful slowdown – we don't know. We try not to read too much into one month.”
LinkThose are pretty big percentage drops in sales numbers, especially considering this is still supposed to be the "hot" season for RE sales. If the fall and winter are usually worse, it will be interesting to see what happens to prices when sales come to a complete hault.

:popcorn:

 
Bubble sitting: The pros and cons

Waiting for home prices to drop before buying a home is tempting, but making the right call isn't simple.

By Les Christie, CNNMoney.com staff writer

August 11 2006: 10:13 AM EDT

NEW YORK CNNMoney.com -- Convinced home prices will fall? So are a lot of other Americans.

Some - known as bubble sitters - are acting on their conviction. They're cashing out by selling their homes and renting, figuring they'll return to the market after prices have fallen.

Bubble sitters also include those people who have never owned a home and are waiting to take the plunge, along with folks who are relocating and holding on to their cash until the market in their new hometown softens.

Many experts have labeled the majority of U.S. housing markets either overvalued or severely overvalued, but is it wise to count on prices falling?

Roulette or sound reasoning?

Bubble sitting has contributed to softening in housing markets, especially in new homes. Builders have reported slowing sales and they're offering numerous incentives, rebates and discounts in order to move inventory. Just this week, builder Toll Brothers announced they expected sales to decline substantially for the year.

"With many potential buyers on the sidelines right now, we believe there is growing pent-up demand that will come into the market once buyer sentiment improves," said CEO Robert Toll.

He does not, however, think bubble sitting works. "It's very hard to pick a bottom," he said.

Bubble sitters might argue, though, that it has worked for new home buyers this year. They are, after all, receiving discounts and incentives that were nearly non-existent last year.

Dean Baker, an economist and co-director of the Center for Economic and Policy Research, is a bubble sitter himself, having sold his home a couple of years ago. "It is a very bad time to buy. Prices are heading down," he said.

Baker also predicts that the markets that have run up the most will suffer the worst turndowns. He compares it to the tech bubble when Nasdaq stocks rang up the biggest gains before the pop and fell the farthest from their highs after it.

Even though he did it himself, Baker says most people should not sell in anticipation of getting back into the market at a lower price.

"I don't think people want to speculate on their homes," he says. "But if they're selling for another reason - if they're downsizing, for example, because their children have moved out - they should cash out and rent for a while."

A colleague here at CNNMoney.com is a perfect example of someone who Baker thinks could take advantage of plunging home prices.

The colleague is moving from one New Jersey suburb to another with a more respected school system. He's selling and renting. That way, he hopes, he can wait out the bubble and scoop up a property from a motivated seller at a big discount next year.

"He's playing a bit of roulette," says Jim Gillespie, CEO of Coldwell Banker, who doesn't think even that scenario justifies bubble sitting. "Look at the history of prices in this country. [Postwar prices] have never gone down."

While that may be true on a national level, it's also true that home prices in individual markets have fallen during periods after 1945. (See"When booms go bust".)

"My advice is don't do it," Gillespie said. "If the Feds stop raising rates, mortgages will start to go down and prices will recover."

Factors to consider before making a move

But Bernice Ross, CEO of realestatecoach.com, says that there's a lot of downward pressure on home prices. Foreclosures and delinquencies have risen and, in many of the hottest markets, interest-only mortgages will be adjusting upwards, making it difficult for some owners to keep up with monthly payments.

That will open up buying opportunities, but also will draw more professional investors into the mix. These, she says, are "not emotional buyers. They're crunching numbers, looking for cash flow."

If professionals enter a market, they could help support prices, making them less attractive for bubble sitters, not to mention that the entry of professionally investors will indicate that the market has fallen as far as it is likely to go.

John Bredemeyer, speaking for the Appraisal Institute, an association of professional real estate appraisers, says anyone considering bubble sitting should take three basic factors into account:

Where the market is heading: Says Bredemeyer. "You need to know what your market is doing. (This is where a professional appraiser comes in.)"

It matters little if California crashes when you're buying in Iowa. Local economic conditions such as factory closings and population changes, count as much as or more than national trends.

What your reason is for buying: Bredemeyer says cashing out and buying later is usually not a good idea - the costs of selling and repurchasing is going to kill you, even if prices do fall.

But, says Bredemeyer, "If you feel you're sophisticated enough to time the market, go ahead, but go in with your eyes open."

For those who are just entering the home market, it can make sense to rent for a year, according to Bredemeyer. "If you don't know the area, you can learn more about it and find out where you really want to live." Falling prices make the advantages of that strategy even more compelling.

"But if you already own a house you like and there's no other reason for moving, stay put," he says.

What your time horizon is: The value of bubble sitting also depends on how long you intend to live in a house. If you're planning to be there for five years or more, it make sense to buy as soon as possible. Time smoothes out any price bumps - over long periods prices nearly always go up - and the tax advantages may help make it cheaper to buy than rent.

It's a different story for the short term. Then, all those buying and selling expenses means that even in flat markets, you could be underwater if you sell out after two or three years.

 
San Diego County median down YOY in July, only the second month in the past decade that the median has been negative YOY (June '06 was the first).

There were 3,370 closed escrows last month, down 29.3 percent from year-ago levels, and off 21.7 percent from June, the biggest retreat from any June to July since DataQuick began keeping records in 1988.

“We need to watch the sales pace closely because that was an unusually sharp decline between June and July,” said DataQuick analyst Andrew LePage. “Maybe it's a one-month deal or it's the beginning of a more forceful slowdown – we don't know. We try not to read too much into one month.”
LinkThose are pretty big percentage drops in sales numbers, especially considering this is still supposed to be the "hot" season for RE sales. If the fall and winter are usually worse, it will be interesting to see what happens to prices when sales come to a complete hault.

:popcorn:
read my posting above, problem is that you are going to compete with a TON of other people waiting which in effect will not reduce prices. Think about it, if 10,000 people are waiting for a dip and it happens, the price will stay stable because there are so many people waiting to jump.
 
San Diego County median down YOY in July, only the second month in the past decade that the median has been negative YOY (June '06 was the first).

There were 3,370 closed escrows last month, down 29.3 percent from year-ago levels, and off 21.7 percent from June, the biggest retreat from any June to July since DataQuick began keeping records in 1988.

“We need to watch the sales pace closely because that was an unusually sharp decline between June and July,” said DataQuick analyst Andrew LePage. “Maybe it's a one-month deal or it's the beginning of a more forceful slowdown – we don't know. We try not to read too much into one month.”
LinkThose are pretty big percentage drops in sales numbers, especially considering this is still supposed to be the "hot" season for RE sales. If the fall and winter are usually worse, it will be interesting to see what happens to prices when sales come to a complete hault.

:popcorn:
read my posting above, problem is that you are going to compete with a TON of other people waiting which in effect will not reduce prices. Think about it, if 10,000 people are waiting for a dip and it happens, the price will stay stable because there are so many people waiting to jump.
WHAT?
 
San Diego County median down YOY in July, only the second month in the past decade that the median has been negative YOY (June '06 was the first).

There were 3,370 closed escrows last month, down 29.3 percent from year-ago levels, and off 21.7 percent from June, the biggest retreat from any June to July since DataQuick began keeping records in 1988.

“We need to watch the sales pace closely because that was an unusually sharp decline between June and July,” said DataQuick analyst Andrew LePage. “Maybe it's a one-month deal or it's the beginning of a more forceful slowdown – we don't know. We try not to read too much into one month.”
LinkThose are pretty big percentage drops in sales numbers, especially considering this is still supposed to be the "hot" season for RE sales. If the fall and winter are usually worse, it will be interesting to see what happens to prices when sales come to a complete hault.

:popcorn:
read my posting above, problem is that you are going to compete with a TON of other people waiting which in effect will not reduce prices. Think about it, if 10,000 people are waiting for a dip and it happens, the price will stay stable because there are so many people waiting to jump.
WHAT?
But Bernice Ross, CEO of realestatecoach.com, says that there's a lot of downward pressure on home prices. Foreclosures and delinquencies have risen and, in many of the hottest markets, interest-only mortgages will be adjusting upwards, making it difficult for some owners to keep up with monthly payments.That will open up buying opportunities, but also will draw more professional investors into the mix. These, she says, are "not emotional buyers. They're crunching numbers, looking for cash flow."

If professionals enter a market, they could help support prices, making them less attractive for bubble sitters, not to mention that the entry of professionally investors will indicate that the market has fallen as far as it is likely to go.

 
San Diego County median down YOY in July, only the second month in the past decade that the median has been negative YOY (June '06 was the first).

There were 3,370 closed escrows last month, down 29.3 percent from year-ago levels, and off 21.7 percent from June, the biggest retreat from any June to July since DataQuick began keeping records in 1988.

“We need to watch the sales pace closely because that was an unusually sharp decline between June and July,” said DataQuick analyst Andrew LePage. “Maybe it's a one-month deal or it's the beginning of a more forceful slowdown – we don't know. We try not to read too much into one month.”
LinkThose are pretty big percentage drops in sales numbers, especially considering this is still supposed to be the "hot" season for RE sales. If the fall and winter are usually worse, it will be interesting to see what happens to prices when sales come to a complete hault.

:popcorn:
Higher interest rates are the main reason prices are dropping and it really doesn't help help you when the price goes down and the interest rates go up. Housing prices depend mainly on what people can buy with a certain payment per month.For example, if you had $2400 a month you wanted to spend on a mortgage, here's what you could buy at different interest rates:

5% Fixed - $450,000

6% Fixed - $400,000

7% Fixed - $360,000

8% Fixed - $325,000

 
San Diego County median down YOY in July, only the second month in the past decade that the median has been negative YOY (June '06 was the first).

There were 3,370 closed escrows last month, down 29.3 percent from year-ago levels, and off 21.7 percent from June, the biggest retreat from any June to July since DataQuick began keeping records in 1988.

“We need to watch the sales pace closely because that was an unusually sharp decline between June and July,” said DataQuick analyst Andrew LePage. “Maybe it's a one-month deal or it's the beginning of a more forceful slowdown – we don't know. We try not to read too much into one month.”
LinkThose are pretty big percentage drops in sales numbers, especially considering this is still supposed to be the "hot" season for RE sales. If the fall and winter are usually worse, it will be interesting to see what happens to prices when sales come to a complete hault.

:popcorn:
read my posting above, problem is that you are going to compete with a TON of other people waiting which in effect will not reduce prices. Think about it, if 10,000 people are waiting for a dip and it happens, the price will stay stable because there are so many people waiting to jump.
WHAT?
But Bernice Ross, CEO of realestatecoach.com, says that there's a lot of downward pressure on home prices. Foreclosures and delinquencies have risen and, in many of the hottest markets, interest-only mortgages will be adjusting upwards, making it difficult for some owners to keep up with monthly payments.That will open up buying opportunities, but also will draw more professional investors into the mix. These, she says, are "not emotional buyers. They're crunching numbers, looking for cash flow."

If professionals enter a market, they could help support prices, making them less attractive for bubble sitters, not to mention that the entry of professionally investors will indicate that the market has fallen as far as it is likely to go.
In San Diego, no worries about professional investors looking for cash flow. Mortgages are so far above rents that it will be a long time before investing in residential rentals becomes cash flow positive.
 
Higher interest rates are the main reason prices are dropping and it really doesn't help help you when the price goes down and the interest rates go up. Housing prices depend mainly on what people can buy with a certain payment per month.For example, if you had $2400 a month you wanted to spend on a mortgage, here's what you could buy at different interest rates:5% Fixed - $450,0006% Fixed - $400,0007% Fixed - $360,0008% Fixed - $325,000
Agreed, for the most part. Knowing this, it becomes an analysis of the decline in housing prices v. declining purchasing power. I'm of the belief that housing prices will decline faster than my purchasing power will over the next 2 years. Hence, I wait. I also believe that the '04 and '05 ARM resets in '07 and '08 are going to have a rather dramatic effect on the market in San Diego.
 
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San Diego County median down YOY in July, only the second month in the past decade that the median has been negative YOY (June '06 was the first).

There were 3,370 closed escrows last month, down 29.3 percent from year-ago levels, and off 21.7 percent from June, the biggest retreat from any June to July since DataQuick began keeping records in 1988.

“We need to watch the sales pace closely because that was an unusually sharp decline between June and July,” said DataQuick analyst Andrew LePage. “Maybe it's a one-month deal or it's the beginning of a more forceful slowdown – we don't know. We try not to read too much into one month.”
LinkThose are pretty big percentage drops in sales numbers, especially considering this is still supposed to be the "hot" season for RE sales. If the fall and winter are usually worse, it will be interesting to see what happens to prices when sales come to a complete hault.

:popcorn:
read my posting above, problem is that you are going to compete with a TON of other people waiting which in effect will not reduce prices. Think about it, if 10,000 people are waiting for a dip and it happens, the price will stay stable because there are so many people waiting to jump.
WHAT?
But Bernice Ross, CEO of realestatecoach.com, says that there's a lot of downward pressure on home prices. Foreclosures and delinquencies have risen and, in many of the hottest markets, interest-only mortgages will be adjusting upwards, making it difficult for some owners to keep up with monthly payments.That will open up buying opportunities, but also will draw more professional investors into the mix. These, she says, are "not emotional buyers. They're crunching numbers, looking for cash flow."

If professionals enter a market, they could help support prices, making them less attractive for bubble sitters, not to mention that the entry of professionally investors will indicate that the market has fallen as far as it is likely to go.
In San Diego, no worries about professional investors looking for cash flow. Mortgages are so far above rents that it will be a long time before investing in residential rentals becomes cash flow positive.
:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
 
San Diego County median down YOY in July, only the second month in the past decade that the median has been negative YOY (June '06 was the first).

There were 3,370 closed escrows last month, down 29.3 percent from year-ago levels, and off 21.7 percent from June, the biggest retreat from any June to July since DataQuick began keeping records in 1988.

“We need to watch the sales pace closely because that was an unusually sharp decline between June and July,” said DataQuick analyst Andrew LePage. “Maybe it's a one-month deal or it's the beginning of a more forceful slowdown – we don't know. We try not to read too much into one month.”
LinkThose are pretty big percentage drops in sales numbers, especially considering this is still supposed to be the "hot" season for RE sales. If the fall and winter are usually worse, it will be interesting to see what happens to prices when sales come to a complete hault.

:popcorn:
read my posting above, problem is that you are going to compete with a TON of other people waiting which in effect will not reduce prices. Think about it, if 10,000 people are waiting for a dip and it happens, the price will stay stable because there are so many people waiting to jump.
WHAT?
But Bernice Ross, CEO of realestatecoach.com, says that there's a lot of downward pressure on home prices. Foreclosures and delinquencies have risen and, in many of the hottest markets, interest-only mortgages will be adjusting upwards, making it difficult for some owners to keep up with monthly payments.That will open up buying opportunities, but also will draw more professional investors into the mix. These, she says, are "not emotional buyers. They're crunching numbers, looking for cash flow."

If professionals enter a market, they could help support prices, making them less attractive for bubble sitters, not to mention that the entry of professionally investors will indicate that the market has fallen as far as it is likely to go.
In San Diego, no worries about professional investors looking for cash flow. Mortgages are so far above rents that it will be a long time before investing in residential rentals becomes cash flow positive.
:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
Do you know many professional RE investors who are looking to purchase properties that rent for 1/2 the monthly mortgage cost in a market where YOY monthly median prices have gone negative two consectutive months after seeing gains for 120 straight months?
 
San Diego County median down YOY in July, only the second month in the past decade that the median has been negative YOY (June '06 was the first).

There were 3,370 closed escrows last month, down 29.3 percent from year-ago levels, and off 21.7 percent from June, the biggest retreat from any June to July since DataQuick began keeping records in 1988.

“We need to watch the sales pace closely because that was an unusually sharp decline between June and July,” said DataQuick analyst Andrew LePage. “Maybe it's a one-month deal or it's the beginning of a more forceful slowdown – we don't know. We try not to read too much into one month.”
LinkThose are pretty big percentage drops in sales numbers, especially considering this is still supposed to be the "hot" season for RE sales. If the fall and winter are usually worse, it will be interesting to see what happens to prices when sales come to a complete hault.

:popcorn:
read my posting above, problem is that you are going to compete with a TON of other people waiting which in effect will not reduce prices. Think about it, if 10,000 people are waiting for a dip and it happens, the price will stay stable because there are so many people waiting to jump.
WHAT?
But Bernice Ross, CEO of realestatecoach.com, says that there's a lot of downward pressure on home prices. Foreclosures and delinquencies have risen and, in many of the hottest markets, interest-only mortgages will be adjusting upwards, making it difficult for some owners to keep up with monthly payments.That will open up buying opportunities, but also will draw more professional investors into the mix. These, she says, are "not emotional buyers. They're crunching numbers, looking for cash flow."

If professionals enter a market, they could help support prices, making them less attractive for bubble sitters, not to mention that the entry of professionally investors will indicate that the market has fallen as far as it is likely to go.
In San Diego, no worries about professional investors looking for cash flow. Mortgages are so far above rents that it will be a long time before investing in residential rentals becomes cash flow positive.
:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
Do you know many professional RE investors who are looking to purchase properties that rent for 1/2 the monthly mortgage cost in a market where YOY monthly median prices have gone negative two consectutive months after seeing gains for 120 straight months?
Pretty much the same thing in Orange County. The rent we are able to get for our place is roughly half of what a mortgage payment would be at our home's present market value. Thankfully, we bought the house in '99 before prices went sky high, so we do have positive cash flow on the place.
 
Pretty much the same thing in Orange County. The rent we are able to get for our place is roughly half of what a mortgage payment would be at our home's present market value. Thankfully, we bought the house in '99 before prices went sky high, so we do have positive cash flow on the place.
I have a few friends who are in the same boat - you guys got in early and are reaping the rewards. Unfortunately, those who attempted to mimic your wise investment at '04 and '05 prices are finding out that market forces apply to RE as well, despite the "RE never goes down" rhetoric of the past 6 years from agents and bulls in the media. Folks who bought the past two years are either in it for the long run, sweating it out hoping for a plateau instead of a decline, or are blissfully ignorant of the current situation.30% month-to-month sales drops in prime buying season is not a "soft landing".
 
Builder confidence index crashes to 15 year low

WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) — The confidence of U.S. home builders collapsed in August, falling to the lowest level since February 1991, the National Association of Home Builders said Tuesday.

The NAHB/Wells Fargo housing market index dropped by seven points to 32 in August, indicating that most builders think the housing market is poor.

A year ago, the index was at 67. A reading of 50 would indicate builder sentiment was balanced between good and poor.

The index peaked at 72 in June 2005 and has fallen in 12 months since then. It’s the fastest decline in the 21-year history of the index, which has had a fairly good record of predicting the number of new homes started.

Builders in all four regions of the country are pessimistic about the market.

“Two factors are coloring builders’ perceptions of the market right now - rising sales cancellations and substantial growth in inventories of both new and existing homes,” said David Seiders, chief economist for the home builders’ industry group. “These factors are largely the result of an increasing number of potential buyers adopting a ‘wait and see’ attitude because of uncertainty about where the housing market is headed.

Speculators are fleeing the market, he said.

High energy costs are also weighing on buyers’ minds, Seiders said.

In August, all three components of the home-builders’ index fell. Current sales index fell to 36 from 43, the expected sales index dropped to 40 from 46. and the traffic of potential buyers’ index fell to 21 from 27.

The Commerce Department will report on housing starts for July at 8:30 a.m. Eastern time Wednesday. Economists are looking for a 2% decline to 1.82 million, according to a survey conducted by MarketWatch. See Economic Calendar.

Housing starts have fallen about 18% since the peak at the beginning of the year. New-home sales are down about 17% from the peak last July.

As housing slows, employment in construction, real estate, banking and related retail sectors has also weakened. Economists are divided over the potential impact on consumers from the deceleration in the increases in wealth that have helped to support consumer spending.
The headline in the link on the front page of MarketWatch reads: "A Collapse in Confidence".Wonder what homebuilders know that the masses don't?

 
San Diego County median down YOY in July, only the second month in the past decade that the median has been negative YOY (June '06 was the first).

There were 3,370 closed escrows last month, down 29.3 percent from year-ago levels, and off 21.7 percent from June, the biggest retreat from any June to July since DataQuick began keeping records in 1988.

“We need to watch the sales pace closely because that was an unusually sharp decline between June and July,” said DataQuick analyst Andrew LePage. “Maybe it's a one-month deal or it's the beginning of a more forceful slowdown – we don't know. We try not to read too much into one month.”
LinkThose are pretty big percentage drops in sales numbers, especially considering this is still supposed to be the "hot" season for RE sales. If the fall and winter are usually worse, it will be interesting to see what happens to prices when sales come to a complete hault.

:popcorn:
read my posting above, problem is that you are going to compete with a TON of other people waiting which in effect will not reduce prices. Think about it, if 10,000 people are waiting for a dip and it happens, the price will stay stable because there are so many people waiting to jump.
WHAT?
But Bernice Ross, CEO of realestatecoach.com, says that there's a lot of downward pressure on home prices. Foreclosures and delinquencies have risen and, in many of the hottest markets, interest-only mortgages will be adjusting upwards, making it difficult for some owners to keep up with monthly payments.That will open up buying opportunities, but also will draw more professional investors into the mix. These, she says, are "not emotional buyers. They're crunching numbers, looking for cash flow."

If professionals enter a market, they could help support prices, making them less attractive for bubble sitters, not to mention that the entry of professionally investors will indicate that the market has fallen as far as it is likely to go.
In San Diego, no worries about professional investors looking for cash flow. Mortgages are so far above rents that it will be a long time before investing in residential rentals becomes cash flow positive.
:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
Do you know many professional RE investors who are looking to purchase properties that rent for 1/2 the monthly mortgage cost in a market where YOY monthly median prices have gone negative two consectutive months after seeing gains for 120 straight months?
Pretty much the same thing in Orange County. The rent we are able to get for our place is roughly half of what a mortgage payment would be at our home's present market value. Thankfully, we bought the house in '99 before prices went sky high, so we do have positive cash flow on the place.
:yes:
 
Builder confidence index crashes to 15 year low

WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) — The confidence of U.S. home builders collapsed in August, falling to the lowest level since February 1991, the National Association of Home Builders said Tuesday.

The NAHB/Wells Fargo housing market index dropped by seven points to 32 in August, indicating that most builders think the housing market is poor.

A year ago, the index was at 67. A reading of 50 would indicate builder sentiment was balanced between good and poor.

The index peaked at 72 in June 2005 and has fallen in 12 months since then. It’s the fastest decline in the 21-year history of the index, which has had a fairly good record of predicting the number of new homes started.

Builders in all four regions of the country are pessimistic about the market.

“Two factors are coloring builders’ perceptions of the market right now - rising sales cancellations and substantial growth in inventories of both new and existing homes,” said David Seiders, chief economist for the home builders’ industry group. “These factors are largely the result of an increasing number of potential buyers adopting a ‘wait and see’ attitude because of uncertainty about where the housing market is headed.

Speculators are fleeing the market, he said.

High energy costs are also weighing on buyers’ minds, Seiders said.

In August, all three components of the home-builders’ index fell. Current sales index fell to 36 from 43, the expected sales index dropped to 40 from 46. and the traffic of potential buyers’ index fell to 21 from 27.

The Commerce Department will report on housing starts for July at 8:30 a.m. Eastern time Wednesday. Economists are looking for a 2% decline to 1.82 million, according to a survey conducted by MarketWatch. See Economic Calendar.

Housing starts have fallen about 18% since the peak at the beginning of the year. New-home sales are down about 17% from the peak last July.

As housing slows, employment in construction, real estate, banking and related retail sectors has also weakened. Economists are divided over the potential impact on consumers from the deceleration in the increases in wealth that have helped to support consumer spending.
The headline in the link on the front page of MarketWatch reads: "A Collapse in Confidence".Wonder what homebuilders know that the masses don't?
Curious to know how low must a house drop for you to buy it and when you think this will happen.
 
proninja said:
Tommy>hiI was wonder what type of helmet you recommend for when we start getting hit with the chunks of falling sky?TIAYour pal, ninja
:football: < Tommy
Just trying to stay ahead of the curve. So many housing bulls out there - us bears are greatly outnumbered but the tide is turning, albeit slowly.
 
Curious to know how low must a house drop for you to buy it and when you think this will happen.
No specific number is set in stone - I'll be looking to purchase when traditional RE fundamentals fall back within normal ranges (ie price/income; rents/mortgage).Entry point and exit points are key to wise RE investment - as noted many who got into the SoCal market in the late 90s have experienced fantastic returns. That does not mean that entering the market at '04, '05, or '06 prices is wise. Why would I invest hundreds of thousands of dollars in something that all indicators suggest is going to depreciate for a couple of years?
 
Higher interest rates are the main reason prices are dropping and it really doesn't help help you when the price goes down and the interest rates go up. Housing prices depend mainly on what people can buy with a certain payment per month.For example, if you had $2400 a month you wanted to spend on a mortgage, here's what you could buy at different interest rates:5% Fixed - $450,0006% Fixed - $400,0007% Fixed - $360,0008% Fixed - $325,000
Agreed, for the most part. Knowing this, it becomes an analysis of the decline in housing prices v. declining purchasing power. I'm of the belief that housing prices will decline faster than my purchasing power will over the next 2 years. Hence, I wait. I also believe that the '04 and '05 ARM resets in '07 and '08 are going to have a rather dramatic effect on the market in San Diego.
That's a big decline in housing prices to make up for your raise in interest rates.And what about the money you shell out in rent? Won't that be maybe another $30,000 + or so?I'm of the belief that when looking to buy, you have to ignore what the herd is saying, be ready on the sidelines with your $$$$ ready to go and continually study where you want to live......THE most important thing in all this is WHERE YOU WANT TO LIVE - And I don't mean state or town as much as I mean THE BLOCK.... What school and blocks do you want to live on - Narrow it down and watch it daily, Cuz "A DEAL" can come about Any Day and has little to do with markets and rates as much as it does with People and their needs.I bought a house from a couple who already bought their next house and had this house sold - Their sale fell through at the last minute.... So, knocking 30,0000 of the price at that point meant little in the big scheme of their move...... That's a big savings that had nothing at all to do with interest rates and market trends.You can find deal no matter what the market.... Dont' label yourself a Sideline sitter and NOT a buyer - You ARE a Buyer - Don't talk about next year of the year after - BE ready NOW. Be ready to pounce....This reminds me of the people in FF who use absolutes like "WR's who change teams do worse"....Sometimes people need to Stop with the absolutes and big picture and narrow it down to the actual player and situation or House.Here's a HUGE piece of advice - Once you narrowed down where you are going to live, ride you bike in that are for many days - Really FEEL the neighborhood..... You may spend the rest of your life there.The house I had before this one, it turned out that my neighbors weren't so great.
 
In a place like San Diego, I don't see any way that rents don't start to rise dramatically.

With higher home values and higher interest rates, even if/when home prices fall, rents have to come up.

 
Bubble sitting has contributed to softening in housing markets, especially in new homes. Builders have reported slowing sales and they're offering numerous incentives, rebates and discounts in order to move inventory. Just this week, builder Toll Brothers announced they expected sales to decline substantially for the year."With many potential buyers on the sidelines right now, we believe there is growing pent-up demand that will come into the market once buyer sentiment improves," said CEO Robert Toll.He does not, however, think bubble sitting works. "It's very hard to pick a bottom," he said.
How does this guy keep getting his comments thrown into real estate articles? For months markets were stabilizing or declining in most places. The entire time he kept saying that they still expected strong sales and that things would take an upturn soon. Blah blah blah. Now, after finally being forced to project a huge decrease in sales projections, he's STILL saying that there's tons of demand just sitting out there waiting. :rolleyes: Funny how the guys who stand to lose the most if there really is a housing bubble that pops, are the ones continually saying that things aren't bad and will keep going up and up forever or just turn right back around.The bottom line is that the right time to buy is when you can afford what fits you. That's the time to buy. My wife and I are at the point in our lives where we needed to be home owners rather than apartment renters. So we went out and bought something that we liked and that we could afford. If the value of our home stays the same over the next 10 years, then so be it. If it goes down, then so be it as well. If it goes up, that'd be tremendous. Some people lose site of the fact that while your home is most likely your largest investment, more importantly, it's YOUR HOME.
 
Higher interest rates are the main reason prices are dropping and it really doesn't help help you when the price goes down and the interest rates go up. Housing prices depend mainly on what people can buy with a certain payment per month.For example, if you had $2400 a month you wanted to spend on a mortgage, here's what you could buy at different interest rates:5% Fixed - $450,0006% Fixed - $400,0007% Fixed - $360,0008% Fixed - $325,000
Agreed, for the most part. Knowing this, it becomes an analysis of the decline in housing prices v. declining purchasing power. I'm of the belief that housing prices will decline faster than my purchasing power will over the next 2 years. Hence, I wait. I also believe that the '04 and '05 ARM resets in '07 and '08 are going to have a rather dramatic effect on the market in San Diego.
That's a big decline in housing prices to make up for your raise in interest rates.And what about the money you shell out in rent? Won't that be maybe another $30,000 + or so?I'm of the belief that when looking to buy, you have to ignore what the herd is saying, be ready on the sidelines with your $$$$ ready to go and continually study where you want to live......THE most important thing in all this is WHERE YOU WANT TO LIVE - And I don't mean state or town as much as I mean THE BLOCK.... What school and blocks do you want to live on - Narrow it down and watch it daily, Cuz "A DEAL" can come about Any Day and has little to do with markets and rates as much as it does with People and their needs.I bought a house from a couple who already bought their next house and had this house sold - Their sale fell through at the last minute.... So, knocking 30,0000 of the price at that point meant little in the big scheme of their move...... That's a big savings that had nothing at all to do with interest rates and market trends.You can find deal no matter what the market.... Dont' label yourself a Sideline sitter and NOT a buyer - You ARE a Buyer - Don't talk about next year of the year after - BE ready NOW. Be ready to pounce....This reminds me of the people in FF who use absolutes like "WR's who change teams do worse"....Sometimes people need to Stop with the absolutes and big picture and narrow it down to the actual player and situation or House.Here's a HUGE piece of advice - Once you narrowed down where you are going to live, ride you bike in that are for many days - Really FEEL the neighborhood..... You may spend the rest of your life there.The house I had before this one, it turned out that my neighbors weren't so great.
:thumbup: for the advice. I agree with much of your post.Currently, 2 yrs rent is $20,400. That would not even cover the interest if I were to buy a comparable place to what I am renting. I do not anticipate interest rates moving as quickly as the example given above, and I do expect a major decline in the price of homes. I've ran the numbers (including all factors, ie tax break, equity, opportunity cost of downpayment v. investing in bonds) and it's just not financially smart in my situation to buy right now, given my opinion of where the local market is heading. We are seeing a historic shift in momentum (sales figures dropping month-to-month and YOY like never before) that is only beginning to show up in prices. IMO, the market is going to get much worse before it gets better. Like I've said numerous times, a 30% decline in RE prices sounds like an extreme position until you look at the 150%-200% gains that have been realized in SoCal over the past 5-6 years. The belief that it is possible for an asset to appreciate 150-200% over a 5 yr time period yet it is impossible for the same asset to undergo a 30% reduction is mind boggling.
 
tommyGunZ said:
RKMoney said:
Curious to know how low must a house drop for you to buy it and when you think this will happen.
No specific number is set in stone - I'll be looking to purchase when traditional RE fundamentals fall back within normal ranges (ie price/income; rents/mortgage).Entry point and exit points are key to wise RE investment - as noted many who got into the SoCal market in the late 90s have experienced fantastic returns. That does not mean that entering the market at '04, '05, or '06 prices is wise. Why would I invest hundreds of thousands of dollars in something that all indicators suggest is going to depreciate for a couple of years?
Give us something to work here, pretty simple actually:1. Give me an example of a particular house in your area that you are interested in and the current price/cost it would take to purchase said house.2. Tell us then at what point would said house would need to fall for you to put a bid on it.Assumptions:The further the price drops the greater increase in rates have to take into account.You won't be the only one who is waiting for the ball to drop, so make sure and increase offer to make sure you get said house.
 
(HULK) said:
In a place like San Diego, I don't see any way that rents don't start to rise dramatically.With higher home values and higher interest rates, even if/when home prices fall, rents have to come up.
:goodposting: Most people will know that for the people who either can't afford to buy or waiting to buy, can easily increase rents in the meantime.
 
150% increase over 100K is 250K, not 150K. Otherwise a 100% increase would bring 100K to 100K.
Housing hasn't tripled in SD in five years. My parent's house in Encinitas hasn't even doubled. More like 75%. Maybe stuff downtown has doubled. Nothing has tripled.
 
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Anyone want to buy a house in Imperial, MO? My mom's house has been on the market off and on for about a year and a half and the damn thing still won't sell.

During this time, I've grown to strongly hate real estate agents about as bad as car dealers.

 
Example 2, again in my neighborhood:

Sale History

07/28/2006: $660,000

11/14/1997: $228,500

09/04/1997: $200,000
I'm guessing that's downtown. Regardless, that's not tripling in 5 years.
Not downtown. That's Ocean Beach, and it's more than tripled in ~ 8 yrs.Of course RE appreciation gains will vary, but I think it's pretty safe to say that home values in SD county have doubled in 5 years.

 

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