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Red Sox quit? (1 Viewer)

They may have quit, but they will end up the year having missed varying amounts of time from:

- Varitek

- Manny

- Ortiz

- Nixon

- Crisp

- Pena

- Gonzalez

- Wakefield

- Foulke

- Clement

- Wells

- Lester

It's hard to win when half your team gets banged up. Not saying that that's a legit excuse, but they really haven't been graced with good health much this year.

 
They may have quit, but they will end up the year having missed varying amounts of time from:- Varitek- Manny- Ortiz- Nixon- Crisp- Pena- Gonzalez- Wakefield- Foulke- Clement- Wells- LesterIt's hard to win when half your team gets banged up. Not saying that that's a legit excuse, but they really haven't been graced with good health much this year.
And Theo gets an F for assembling the team they do have this year.Grade is subject to change if some of these young guys work out in a few years but for now he gets an F.
 
They may have quit, but they will end up the year having missed varying amounts of time from:- Varitek- Manny- Ortiz- Nixon- Crisp- Pena- Gonzalez- Wakefield- Foulke- Clement- Wells- LesterIt's hard to win when half your team gets banged up. Not saying that that's a legit excuse, but they really haven't been graced with good health much this year.
And Theo gets an F for assembling the team they do have this year.Grade is subject to change if some of these young guys work out in a few years but for now he gets an F.
It's not fair to give an F then. Understanding that we're trying to work kids in for the long haul means withholding on a grade now.Judging Theo based only on this year's record is the same as saying Heathcliff Slocum for Lowe and Varitek was a bad trade for Boston.
 
It's not fair to give an F then. Understanding that we're trying to work kids in for the long haul means withholding on a grade now.Judging Theo based only on this year's record is the same as saying Heathcliff Slocum for Lowe and Varitek was a bad trade for Boston.
Its fair to give an F just for the bullpen he assembled. WTF was that, Seanez and Tavarez were awful, and the trade for Javier Lopez didn't help. He lucked into Papelbon. They thought he may even start this year but when Theo stocked the team with no other closer than Foulke, that left them no choice but to use him in the bullpen. Did they really think Foulke was going to work out? And even with Papelbon's brilliant performance, he may have been more effective for them as a starter.Maybe we can blame John Henry for this, but why not trade for Abreu? All it was costing was cash without endangering the long term plan at all. F for that.Picking up Javy Lopez instead of trying to get Lieberthal. Another F.Theo sucked this year. Bigtime.
 
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Red Sox lineup last night was awful. Beckett gives his first long start and pitches great, but it's wasted because they can't score runs. When your backup catcher is batting cleanup, your backup right fielder is your everyday first baseman, your backup right fielder is your backup left fielder, and your backup shortstop is your AA starting SS, it's hard to break out of a slump.

Even after all this, though, I still don't think the season is over. There's a lot of baseball left, the Yankees can get complacent when they're overconfident, and there's still a late season series between the two. I'm not saying it'll happen, but I haven't thrown in the towel. They just need something to break right for them soon, and that definitely hasn't happened recently.

 
Look at the Red Sox' schedule since August 14th:

3 vs Tigers 1-2

5 vs Yankees 0-5

3 @ Angels 2-1

3 @ Mariners 0-3

3 @ Athletics 0-2 so far.

That's pretty tough.

The Yankees have a similarly tough schedule right now. Outside of the 5 game sweep of the Red Sox, they haven't fared much better. The 5 game sweep tho pretty much killed em. Had they just taken two games from the Yankees, the Red Sox would be 3.5 out.

 
Red Sox lineup last night was awful. Beckett gives his first long start and pitches great, but it's wasted because they can't score runs. When your backup catcher is batting cleanup, your backup right fielder is your everyday first baseman, your backup right fielder is your backup left fielder, and your backup shortstop is your AA starting SS, it's hard to break out of a slump. Even after all this, though, I still don't think the season is over. There's a lot of baseball left, the Yankees can get complacent when they're overconfident, and there's still a late season series between the two. I'm not saying it'll happen, but I haven't thrown in the towel. They just need something to break right for them soon, and that definitely hasn't happened recently.
Cmon, its definately over. As soon as Wells gets traded, will you throw in the towel because it sure as hell will be apparent that management has.
 
It's not fair to give an F then. Understanding that we're trying to work kids in for the long haul means withholding on a grade now.Judging Theo based only on this year's record is the same as saying Heathcliff Slocum for Lowe and Varitek was a bad trade for Boston.
Its fair to give an F just for the bullpen he assembled. WTF was that, Seanez and Tavarez were awful, and the trade for Javier Lopez didn't help. He lucked into Papelbon. They thought he may even start this year but when Theo stocked the team with no other closer than Foulke, that left them no choice but to use him in the bullpen. Did they really think Foulke was going to work out? And even with Papelbon's brilliant performance, he may have been more effective for them as a starter.Maybe we can blame John Henry for this, but why not trade for Abreu? All it was costing was cash without endangering the long term plan at all. F for that.Picking up Javy Lopez instead of trying to get Lieberthal. Another F.Theo sucked this year. Bigtime.
Maybe you're right. I'm pretty much always rosy when it comes to assessing that stuff.On the other hand, you can't attribute Papelbon only to luck, THEN blame him for people that didn't work out, and THEN anticipate that Papelbon would be even better in another role.And sure, Abreu has worked out great for the Yanks, but they got him because they took his whole salary and I think next year too, right? We're already at the second highest payroll and if the finances are that we can't go higher, then that's what they are. If the plan is to have next year and '08's outfield be Manny/Coco/Wily Mo, and spend money on pitching, I'm good with that. I'd rather pay Zito $12 million next year and beyond than pay Abreu $15 million and keep losing because of crappy pitching.Javy Lopez has been bad, but the answer isn't Leiberthal, it's Varitek. Varitek is the heart, soul, and brain of the team. The staff has absolutely imploded since he's gone down.So they were desperate, and Javy Lopez was a possibly high upside guy who was available for cheap at the time. Though again to be fair it's the front office's fault that they traded Shoppach and didn't pick up anyone else to step in in case of injury. The catcher problem lies more in going from Shoppach to Mirabelli to Bard and again to Mirabelli than in having to pick up Lopez.
 
. The catcher problem lies more in going from Shoppach to Mirabelli to Bard and again to Mirabelli than in having to pick up Lopez.
Yes, thanks for reminding me. The trade for Mirabelli that cost them Bard and Merideth is going to be judged as awful, if it hasn't already.Theo has been bad this year, really bad.
 
Games left against above .500 clubs:

Red Sox: 19

Yankees: 16

Twins: 16

Angels: 16

Tigers: 16

White Sox: 15

Athletics: 14

Yah, I think its over for the Red Sox. They got the hardest schedule left and need to make up a ton of games. Twins vs White Sox for the Wild Card should be interesting since right now there really isn't a schedule advantage for either club.

 
Forgot another one, Coco has not been what they expected.

If they shop him in the offseason and he's another one year wonder like Renteria, I am really going to start wondring WTF they are thinking.

 
. The catcher problem lies more in going from Shoppach to Mirabelli to Bard and again to Mirabelli than in having to pick up Lopez.
Yes, thanks for reminding me. The trade for Mirabelli that cost them Bard and Merideth is going to be judged as awful, if it hasn't already.Theo has been bad this year, really bad.
The Mirabelli trade was bad, but Merideth was never going to get a fair second look here anyway after he was thrown to the wolves last season and got hammered.Going back over the lesser moves I'm slowly coming around to your side.
 
Forgot another one, Coco has not been what they expected.If they shop him in the offseason and he's another one year wonder like Renteria, I am really going to start wondring WTF they are thinking.
See I guess this is where maybe I'm crazy:-I thought Renteria was a great signing at the time.-I thought they gave up on him too early.-I thought, despite giving up to early, they got good value in trading him for Marte.-I liked letting go of Damon, trading Marte for Coco, and signing Coco for way cheaper than Damon.-I still think Coco will be really good, and will be better than Damon over the course of their contracts.I will be very disappointed if they shop around and sell low on Coco this offseason.P.S. I also really like the Beckett trade, like the long-term signing, and think he'll turn out to be an excellent #1/2 starter.
 
Forgot another one, Coco has not been what they expected.If they shop him in the offseason and he's another one year wonder like Renteria, I am really going to start wondring WTF they are thinking.
See I guess this is where maybe I'm crazy:-I thought Renteria was a great signing at the time.-I thought they gave up on him too early.-I thought, despite giving up to early, they got good value in trading him for Marte.-I liked letting go of Damon, trading Marte for Coco, and signing Coco for way cheaper than Damon.-I still think Coco will be really good, and will be better than Damon over the course of their contracts.I will be very disappointed if they shop around and sell low on Coco this offseason.P.S. I also really like the Beckett trade, like the long-term signing, and think he'll turn out to be an excellent #1/2 starter.
The jury is still out on Coco. I am willing to give him another shot but its going to be interesting if he gets shopped and what they get back in return. If Coco gets shopped and they get less than even money on the dollar, then I am really going to be left to wonder if they know what they are doing at all. I am not advocating that the guy must go though, I am just waiting to see what they decide to do with him, because I think it will be telling.As far as Renteria goes, I said it at the time, they were trying to fix what wasn't broke. They could have signed Cabrera for cheaper, yet they go and set the market at SS for Renteria. Why? I have no idea.
 
Red Sox lineup last night was awful. Beckett gives his first long start and pitches great, but it's wasted because they can't score runs. When your backup catcher is batting cleanup, your backup right fielder is your everyday first baseman, your backup right fielder is your backup left fielder, and your backup shortstop is your AA starting SS, it's hard to break out of a slump. Even after all this, though, I still don't think the season is over. There's a lot of baseball left, the Yankees can get complacent when they're overconfident, and there's still a late season series between the two. I'm not saying it'll happen, but I haven't thrown in the towel. They just need something to break right for them soon, and that definitely hasn't happened recently.
Cmon, its definately over. As soon as Wells gets traded, will you throw in the towel because it sure as hell will be apparent that management has.
I guess it depends what happens when they get back from the road trip. I won't quit while it's still possible.
 
Red Sox lineup last night was awful. Beckett gives his first long start and pitches great, but it's wasted because they can't score runs. When your backup catcher is batting cleanup, your backup right fielder is your everyday first baseman, your backup right fielder is your backup left fielder, and your backup shortstop is your AA starting SS, it's hard to break out of a slump. Even after all this, though, I still don't think the season is over. There's a lot of baseball left, the Yankees can get complacent when they're overconfident, and there's still a late season series between the two. I'm not saying it'll happen, but I haven't thrown in the towel. They just need something to break right for them soon, and that definitely hasn't happened recently.
Cmon, its definately over. As soon as Wells gets traded, will you throw in the towel because it sure as hell will be apparent that management has.
I guess it depends what happens when they get back from the road trip. I won't quit while it's still possible.
Oh yeah, I forgot the original question. They've quick. It's ovah.
 
The jury is still out on Coco. I am willing to give him another shot but its going to be interesting if he gets shopped and what they get back in return. If Coco gets shopped and they get less than even money on the dollar, then I am really going to be left to wonder if they know what they are doing at all. I am not advocating that the guy must go though, I am just waiting to see what they decide to do with him, because I think it will be telling.
That right there is my biggest problem with Theo/John Henry/etc. - They are too reactionary and treat it too much like a roto team. They had a guy in OC that played great D and fit right in, but they thought they could get the same defense and more offense out of Renteria. Renteria didn't work out immediately? Trade him. They trade for Coco, he doesn't work out immediately, they shop him. A team needs some continuity. Bringing in 7 new pitchers every year and seeing if any stick is no way to run a team.OK you are right Theo sucks.
 
-I thought Renteria was a great signing at the time.-I thought they gave up on him too early.-I thought, despite giving up to early, they got good value in trading him for Marte.-I liked letting go of Damon, trading Marte for Coco, and signing Coco for way cheaper than Damon.-I still think Coco will be really good, and will be better than Damon over the course of their contracts.
-I still don't know why they didn't just keep Cabrera.-I agree.-I agree.-It's not that I didn't like Coco from the start, but I thought it was pretty obvious that they were totally overhyping him to make fans forget about Damon. The pink hat fans bought it hook, line, and sinker. Most of the diehards did, too.-I think he's an average CF, nothing special.
 
OK you are right Theo sucks.
Closer by committee, Renteria, Clement, Halama, the Mirabelli fiasco, letting Pedro go, Seanez, Tavarez, trading Freddie Sanchez for Jeff Suppan, Coco, Hillenbrand for Kim, Mendoza...Then there are the mistakes that the Yankees saved Theo from making: Vazquez (remember, we only went after Schilling after we missed out on Vazquez), Contreras (a wreck in New York, likley would've been the same in Boston), Pavano...Then you of course have to figure that the 2004 team was at least as much Dan Duquette's team as it was Theo's. The Duke brought in Manny, Damon, Pedro, Lowe, and Varitek, to name a few.Basically, Theo unexpectedly struck gold in David Ortiz (Papi was brought here to back up another Epstein failure, Jeremy Giambi), and that has carried his reputation through the roof.I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Theo Epstein may be the most overrated general manager in sports history.
 
Yeah, I think it's time to quit. There are rumors of the Sox trading Wells in the next 36 hours, and there are a number of teams interested. I think he's easily the best pitcher that a team could add right now, so hopefully they'll get a good prospect.

The fate of the 2006 season, in my opionion, is due to a combination of two things: the direction of the front office, and #### luck. I'll explain the latter first.

Red Sox went into the month of August 3 1/2 games up in the division - they will leave the month around 6 games out. During this month they lost or were without: Tim Wakefield, Jason Varitek, David Ortiz, Manny Ramirez, Matt Clement, John Lester, Manny Delcarmen, Alex Gonzalez, and Trot Nixon. Some of these are more imporant than others, but I would say that for the first half of the skid, the main problem was pitching (especially the bullpen), which has a LOT to do with Varitek, while the second half of the month, the Sox's problem has been producing runs, which has to do with Ortiz, Manny, Trot (obviously).

The other item, the direction of the front office, has to do with the emphasis on keeping one eye on the future that the Red Sox have now. I've found that I'm a typical fan, liking the idea of keeping the youths when the Sox are up, and then getting pissed that they didn't try to win harder when the present goes to s**t. The Sox sitting tight at the deadline didn't seem like that much of a bad idea at the time, and obviously looks horrible now. The truth is, however, that the Sox were trying to get a deal that included a three-way trade with Atlanta and Houston that had the Sox giving up Lester and Hansen to get Roy Oswalt. It was the Astros, not the Red Sox, that backed out of that trade right near the deadline. Can't say the Sox weren't trying, and can't say they weren't willing to move their top prospects for the right price - that right price just wasn't available at the deadline.

Overall, however, I'm concerned. The Sox clearly are looking for payroll flexibility in the next couple of years, by, in theory, having a core of young talented players that are extremely cheap, and then spending the excess payroll with veterans around them. My problem with this is two-fold:

a) they seem to have that right now with guys like Youkilis, Hansen, Delcarmen, Papelbon, Lester, Wily Mo, and Crisp all at a very reasonable price and making contributions ranging from huge (Pap) to limited (Wily Mo).

b) Theo has not shown that he can efficiently spend the $. They stress "value" a lot, a la the Patriots, but at the same time, they dropped $30 million on Renteria for 1 ####ty year of SS here, and 2 more good ones in Atlanta...they let Pedro walk and replaced him with Clement, who is a $10 million disaster. They have Lowell overpaid at $8 million, and while it IS true that they had to TAKE him to get Beckett, this is still an example on which they let go of their "value" principle, which shows a pretty inconsistent application of the philosophy (not good). Foulke was thrown a 3 year, $20 million deal, and was only worth it for 1 year in 2004. Trot Nixon signed an extension two years ago and is really overpaid, and they extended Beckett and gave him a raise in his worst season as a pro.

While I don't blame Theo for ALL of these guys, some of these collapses you simply cannot foresee, the point is it's OKAY that they have mistakes like this because that is one of the advantages you get as a big market team. My problem is that that is not consistent with the philosophy they're supposedly trying to implement here - just doesn't seem to always make sense.

 
Excellent posting on the inconsistent front office philosophy, JetsWillWin. I couldn't have said it better myself.

I can't say that I blame Theo for Foulke - we don't win in '04 without him - but I absolutely pin the rest of those trades/signings on the front office.

 
I think the Sox might have been serious contenders last season if they had signed Pedro. Maybe his contract wasn't a good one for three or four years, but repeating as World Series champions takes a few sacrifices here and there.

That's the front office's biggest mistake thus far, so far as I can tell.

 
I think the Sox might have been serious contenders last season if they had signed Pedro. Maybe his contract wasn't a good one for three or four years, but repeating as World Series champions takes a few sacrifices here and there.That's the front office's biggest mistake thus far, so far as I can tell.
I disagree for a few reasons. First, they made him a very good offer. Generally, the thinking is that no matter how much they offered him, the Mets would've upped it. The Sox offered him a generous 3 year offer of 17 million per. The Mets then just added on the 4th year. Secondly, it looks like they could be right. Pedro is in the 2nd year of his contract, and he's already showing signs of breaking down (on the DL right now, I believe). The mistake the Sox made was with who they chose to replace Pedro, not letting him walk, IMO.
 
I think the Sox might have been serious contenders last season if they had signed Pedro. Maybe his contract wasn't a good one for three or four years, but repeating as World Series champions takes a few sacrifices here and there.That's the front office's biggest mistake thus far, so far as I can tell.
I disagree for a few reasons. First, they made him a very good offer. Generally, the thinking is that no matter how much they offered him, the Mets would've upped it. The Sox offered him a generous 3 year offer of 17 million per. The Mets then just added on the 4th year. Secondly, it looks like they could be right. Pedro is in the 2nd year of his contract, and he's already showing signs of breaking down (on the DL right now, I believe). The mistake the Sox made was with who they chose to replace Pedro, not letting him walk, IMO.
Its not what they offered its when they offered. You can't let a guy get a taste of free agency and expect to get him back with anything other than the best possible deal. Once he tested the waters, it was over, they should have known who they were dealing with here.Their chance to reup him expired once the season started. They wanted to wait it out to see what kind of pitcher he was and it backfired on them.
 
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I think the Sox might have been serious contenders last season if they had signed Pedro. Maybe his contract wasn't a good one for three or four years, but repeating as World Series champions takes a few sacrifices here and there.That's the front office's biggest mistake thus far, so far as I can tell.
I disagree for a few reasons. First, they made him a very good offer. Generally, the thinking is that no matter how much they offered him, the Mets would've upped it. The Sox offered him a generous 3 year offer of 17 million per. The Mets then just added on the 4th year. Secondly, it looks like they could be right. Pedro is in the 2nd year of his contract, and he's already showing signs of breaking down (on the DL right now, I believe). The mistake the Sox made was with who they chose to replace Pedro, not letting him walk, IMO.
To win in the playoffs, it would seem that you need two dominant pitchers, a fantastic bullpen, or some combination of both. The team last year was poised to repeat in many ways, and I think that losing Martinez was a crucial element.Sure he would have been a bad buy 3-4 years down the road, but I think most teams would write off an extra year of $17M four years from now to be extremely close to repeating as WS champions this year.It was a cheap move on Boston's part. They thought they could fill the void on the cheap in the short run to justify not spending in the long run. Ignoring that kind of thinking is why the Yankees have won that division so many times in a row.Now the Yankees have more money to spend than the Red Sox do, but my point is that the Martinez signing would not have crippled the Red Sox ability to obtain top talent.They let Damon go in a similar fashion, but I don't believe he was nearly as important to the team as Martinez was.
 
I think the Sox might have been serious contenders last season if they had signed Pedro. Maybe his contract wasn't a good one for three or four years, but repeating as World Series champions takes a few sacrifices here and there.

That's the front office's biggest mistake thus far, so far as I can tell.
I disagree for a few reasons. First, they made him a very good offer. Generally, the thinking is that no matter how much they offered him, the Mets would've upped it. The Sox offered him a generous 3 year offer of 17 million per. The Mets then just added on the 4th year. Secondly, it looks like they could be right. Pedro is in the 2nd year of his contract, and he's already showing signs of breaking down (on the DL right now, I believe).

The mistake the Sox made was with who they chose to replace Pedro, not letting him walk, IMO.
The Sox front office tried to get too cute with the money. All we heard this past offseason was how much Damon's contract will hurt them 3 years from now when he starts slowing down. If the Sox had confidence in their young arms (which I am assuming they do), Rameriez and Ortiz they could have given the money to Damon and Martinez, had them be good players for the past year, this year and the next and then have them go on their merry way. The young arms would be under contract for a while and would be asking for bigger oney when Damon and Martinez were coming off the books. Instead they used the money to sign Clement (bum) and Beckett (very close to bum status).
 
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The mistake the Sox made was with who they chose to replace Pedro, not letting him walk, IMO.
What other options did they have?Clement and Pavano were the big names on the market. Its just bad talent evaluation that they thought either could be a viable replacement.
:yes: The free agent market for pitchers has been pretty bleak lately. Teams lock up top tier guys.For example, I don't think Beckett is the star anyone is making him out to be. He's a good pitcher, but he's not a #1 on a championship team by any measure. He got hot in 2003 during the playoffs. He's not Pedro Martinez, Schilling (in the years where Schilling was good), Randy Johnson (the Pre-Yankee version), or a number of other guys. That being said, he's a talented guy that the Sox locked up for a while. He was probably the best of what was available.
 
I think the Sox might have been serious contenders last season if they had signed Pedro. Maybe his contract wasn't a good one for three or four years, but repeating as World Series champions takes a few sacrifices here and there.

That's the front office's biggest mistake thus far, so far as I can tell.
Wasn't going to happen for three reasons:1. Pedro's ego wasn't going to let him be on the same team as Schilling. Rightly or wrongly, it's looked at that the Sox didn't win the World Series until Schilling came onto the scene. Pedro couldn't take that.

2. Once things started to go sour with re-signing Pedro, there was no way Omar Minayo (of the Mets) was going to "let go" of Pedro. If the Sox had matched what the Mets eventually got Pedro for, Pedro would have just gone back to Omar and said "The Sox will pay $nnnnnnnnn. You need to pay more to get me." Omar would have always gone higher. There was NO WAY the Sox would have gone higher and higher.

3. Pedro was insisting on a 4 year (or more) contract. The Sox felt that after the first couple of years of the contract, Pedro wouldn't be healthy. They didn't want to pay a significant amount of his contract without him able to produce.

 
I think the Sox might have been serious contenders last season if they had signed Pedro. Maybe his contract wasn't a good one for three or four years, but repeating as World Series champions takes a few sacrifices here and there.

That's the front office's biggest mistake thus far, so far as I can tell.
Wasn't going to happen for three reasons:1. Pedro's ego wasn't going to let him be on the same team as Schilling. Rightly or wrongly, it's looked at that the Sox didn't win the World Series until Schilling came onto the scene. Pedro couldn't take that.

2. Once things started to go sour with re-signing Pedro, there was no way Omar Minayo (of the Mets) was going to "let go" of Pedro. If the Sox had matched what the Mets eventually got Pedro for, Pedro would have just gone back to Omar and said "The Sox will pay $nnnnnnnnn. You need to pay more to get me." Omar would have always gone higher. There was NO WAY the Sox would have gone higher and higher.

3. Pedro was insisting on a 4 year (or more) contract. The Sox felt that after the first couple of years of the contract, Pedro wouldn't be healthy. They didn't want to pay a significant amount of his contract without him able to produce.
Would a four year deal for Pedro be worth another legitimate shot at a WS championship?

The same goes for Damon?

 
The mistake the Sox made was with who they chose to replace Pedro, not letting him walk, IMO.
What other options did they have?Clement and Pavano were the big names on the market. Its just bad talent evaluation that they thought either could be a viable replacement.
:yes: The free agent market for pitchers has been pretty bleak lately. Teams lock up top tier guys.For example, I don't think Beckett is the star anyone is making him out to be. He's a good pitcher, but he's not a #1 on a championship team by any measure. He got hot in 2003 during the playoffs. He's not Pedro Martinez, Schilling (in the years where Schilling was good), Randy Johnson (the Pre-Yankee version), or a number of other guys. That being said, he's a talented guy that the Sox locked up for a while. He was probably the best of what was available.
Beckett's still only 25 or 26. Schilling wasn't an ace until his late 20s, early 30s. Beckett's stuff is ace-caliber. He just needs to learn how to pitch a little more.
 
The mistake the Sox made was with who they chose to replace Pedro, not letting him walk, IMO.
What other options did they have?Clement and Pavano were the big names on the market. Its just bad talent evaluation that they thought either could be a viable replacement.
:yes: The free agent market for pitchers has been pretty bleak lately. Teams lock up top tier guys.For example, I don't think Beckett is the star anyone is making him out to be. He's a good pitcher, but he's not a #1 on a championship team by any measure. He got hot in 2003 during the playoffs. He's not Pedro Martinez, Schilling (in the years where Schilling was good), Randy Johnson (the Pre-Yankee version), or a number of other guys. That being said, he's a talented guy that the Sox locked up for a while. He was probably the best of what was available.
Beckett's still only 25 or 26. Schilling wasn't an ace until his late 20s, early 30s. Beckett's stuff is ace-caliber. He just needs to learn how to pitch a little more.
:goodposting: Let's hope Schilling mentors Beckett the way he was mentored by Clemens.
 
The mistake the Sox made was with who they chose to replace Pedro, not letting him walk, IMO.
What other options did they have?Clement and Pavano were the big names on the market. Its just bad talent evaluation that they thought either could be a viable replacement.
Clement, like Pavano, was a National League pitcher. Unlike Pavano, he had a well established track record of having a 2nd half slide and of being a bit of a headcase. The same can be said of Renteria, as Lo Russa said right after Renteria signed that he (Renteria, not LoRussa) would not be able to handle it in Boston.They weren't going to get an ace to replace Pedro, but they needed a number 2. Losing Pedro looks a lot worse when you replace him with a guy who is pretty much useless a year later.
 
I think the Sox might have been serious contenders last season if they had signed Pedro. Maybe his contract wasn't a good one for three or four years, but repeating as World Series champions takes a few sacrifices here and there.That's the front office's biggest mistake thus far, so far as I can tell.
I disagree for a few reasons. First, they made him a very good offer. Generally, the thinking is that no matter how much they offered him, the Mets would've upped it. The Sox offered him a generous 3 year offer of 17 million per. The Mets then just added on the 4th year. Secondly, it looks like they could be right. Pedro is in the 2nd year of his contract, and he's already showing signs of breaking down (on the DL right now, I believe). The mistake the Sox made was with who they chose to replace Pedro, not letting him walk, IMO.
Pedro was leaving no matter what. He was pissed off about the Schilling signing and didn't like pitching in Boston - he was going to hit the free agency market no matter what, the question was just if another team would go nuts to sign him. The Mets did, and they were going to out bid the Sox no matter what. Its not what they offered its when they offered. You can't let a guy get a taste of free agency and expect to get him back with anything other than the best possible deal. Once he tested the waters, it was over, they should have known who they were dealing with here.Their chance to reup him expired once the season started. They wanted to wait it out to see what kind of pitcher he was and it backfired on them.
 

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