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Convince Me That Derek Jeter (1 Viewer)

David Yudkin

Footballguy
Many people are annointing Jeter as this year's AL MVP, and I have a hard time understanding why.

Jeter has had a very good season. Maybe even an excellent season. With a week remaining, his numbers are:

.339 BA

110 Runs

14 HR

95 RBI

32 SB

.896 OPS

In terms of batting average, this is his 5th season within 15 points of that, so while is average is slightly higher it's not way over his other seasons. That's 9 extra hits over a season with 600 at bats. His other offensive numbers are solid but again not hugely above some of his other seasons.

By comparison, his 1999 campaign was better:

.349 BA

134 Runs

24 HR

102 RBI

19 SB

.989 OPS

In that year, he ranked SIXTH in the MVP balloting.

This year, the Yankees are loaded with other contributors including A-Rod, Giambi, and Damon. Cano had almost the same exact stat line as Jeter did (but missed time due to injury): .339 AVG and .870 OPS. And many Yankees players feel Mo Rivera is the team's MVP.

Are there no better options than Jeter? Ortiz still has monster numbers and leads the league in HR and RBI (but apparently is not an option because the Sox collectively all got hurt). Hafner probably has the next bet set of stats (but like Ortiz plays for a team that's a non-factor). Dye was a trendy pick for awhile but the CHISOX also won't make the playoffs. Now Morneau seems like a leading candidate and Frank Thomas has emerged as a dark horse. And many people feel Santana is truly the most VALUABLE player to any team (. . . but he's a pitcher).

Why is Jeter apparently the front runner here? Would the Yankees really be that worse a team if he were out for awhile? I personally don't see Jeter winning on the strength of his numbers, nor do I see him winning on the value to the team argument. What am I missing?

 
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He's a #2 hitting SS who will finish with over 100 RBI's and hit over .335. He's having a great season when two very important bats in his lineup went down for more than half the season. He's the leader on the best team in baseball.

Mariano Rivera has been the Yanks MVP for the last decade. He should have won the Cy Young award last year. Pitchers ( and DH's) should never win the MVP award.

 
Many people are annointing Jeter as this year's AL MVP, and I have a hard time understanding why.Jeter has had a very good season. Maybe even an excellent season. With a week remaining, his numbers are:.339 BA110 Runs14 HR95 RBI32 SB.896 OPSIn terms of batting average, this is his 5th season within 15 points of that, so while is average is slightly higher it's not way over his other seasons. That's 9 extra hits over a season with 600 at bats. His other offensive numbers are solid but again not hugely above some of his other seasons.By comparison, his 1999 campaign was better:.349 BA134 Runs24 HR102 RBI19 SB.989 OPSIn that year, he ranked SIXTH in the MVP balloting.This year, the Yankees are loaded with other contributors including A-Rod, Giambi, and Damon. Cano had almost the same exact stat line as Jeter did (but missed time due to injury): .339 AVG and .870 OPS. And many Yankees players feel Mo Rivera is the team's MVP.Are there no better options than Jeter? Ortiz still has monster numbers and leads the league in HR and RBI (but apparently is not an option because the Sox collectively all got hurt). Hafner probably has the next bet set of stats (but like Ortiz plays for a team that's a non-factor). Dye was a trendy pick for awhile but the CHISOX also won't make the playoffs. Now Morneau seems like a leading candidate and Frank Thomas has emerged as a dark horse. And many people feel Santana is truly the most VALUABLE player to any team (. . . but he's a pitcher).Why is Jeter apparently the front runner here? Would the Yankees really be that worse a team if he were out for awhile? I personally don't see Jeter winning on the strength of his numbers, nor do I see him winning on the value to the team argument. What am I missing?
Frank Thomas?.279 AVG?11 2Bs ??Doesn't play the field (just like Ortiz who I wouldn't vote for either)
 
He's a #2 hitting SS who will finish with over 100 RBI's and hit over .335. He's having a great season when two very important bats in his lineup went down for more than half the season. He's the leader on the best team in baseball.Mariano Rivera has been the Yanks MVP for the last decade. He should have won the Cy Young award last year. Pitchers ( and DH's) should never win the MVP award.
Even with Sheffield and Matsui out, the Yankees are on pace to score 925 runs which should be roughly 50 more than any other team. Clearly, the loss of those two bats did not make much of a dent in the Yankees' ability to score runs. The Yankees lineup is loaded--and when they needed a bat they acquired Abreau (who also has produced as good or better than Jeter has hitting .333 with a .921 OPS and 34 RBI in 49 games).I'm not saying that Jeter hasn't had a great year. I'm also not saying that he should not see a few MVP votes. But I'm having a hard time seeing him as anything other than a great player on a great offense. Basically, he's a piece in a big puzzle, and one could certainly argue that he's not even the biggest piece of the Yankees' puzzle.
 
What Jeter did in '99 is irrelevant when discussing whether or not he should win in '06. The only thing matters is how he compares to other players in '06. Having said that, I do think Jeter should be the MVP.

 
He's a #2 hitting SS who will finish with over 100 RBI's and hit over .335. He's having a great season when two very important bats in his lineup went down for more than half the season. He's the leader on the best team in baseball.

Mariano Rivera has been the Yanks MVP for the last decade. He should have won the Cy Young award last year. Pitchers ( and DH's) should never win the MVP award.
Yeah, it must have been tough hitting in that sub-par lineup... you know, the kind of lineup that even without Matsui and Sheffield is better and deeper than just about any other team can afford. LOL, what? We might not get Sheffield back at full strength this year? OH NO!!! We'd better go out and buy Bobby Abreu!!!

He's probably going to win, but it's a shame if he does.

I don't buy the "pitchers shouldn't be MVP's" thing, but it's going to prevent Johan Santana from getting the MVP award that he deserves.

 
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What Jeter did in '99 is irrelevant when discussing whether or not he should win in '06. The only thing matters is how he compares to other players in '06. Having said that, I do think Jeter should be the MVP.
Good. You're one of the people I need to hear from. Convince me Jeter should be MVP. You feel this way because ________________________________ (fill in the blank). Comparing him to other candidates in 2006, why is he more qualified than the other candidates?
 
What Jeter did in '99 is irrelevant when discussing whether or not he should win in '06. The only thing matters is how he compares to other players in '06. Having said that, I do think Jeter should be the MVP.
Good. You're one of the people I need to hear from. Convince me Jeter should be MVP. You feel this way because ________________________________ (fill in the blank). Comparing him to other candidates in 2006, why is he more qualified than the other candidates?
Damn it. I misspoke. I meant I do NOT think Jeter should be the MVP. Sorry for the confusion. *buries my head in shame*
 
I vote Morneau.

Jeter isn't even the best player on his team. A-Rod. His stats are just as good or better than Jeter's and he's getting grief all the time from NY fans. Announcers talk all the time about how knowledgable NY and BOS fans are. I'd like to think true NY baseball fans know A-Rod is a stud and they're lucky to have him.

 
im a big yank fan, but i dont think jeter is MVP. His stats dont tell the whole story, but he is the glue that held this team together. He was consistent all year and makes all the hustle plays. He also plays great defense. Thats the argument for him.

That being said, Santana is the MVP. His post-all star break numbers are staggering.

 
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I vote Morneau.

Jeter isn't even the best player on his team. A-Rod. His stats are just as good or better than Jeter's and he's getting grief all the time from NY fans. Announcers talk all the time about how knowledgable NY and BOS fans are. I'd like to think true NY baseball fans know A-Rod is a stud and they're lucky to have him.
I agree with the pick of Morneau, but I think Jeter has been more valuable to the Yankees than A-Rod this year. You have to look at more than just the raw stats to determine who is more valuable. Look at their numbers in clutch situations, with RISP, etc., and you will see there is no way that A-Rod has been more valuable to the Yankees in 2006 than Derek Jeter.
im a big yank fan, but i dont think jeter is MVP. His stats dont tell the whole story, but he is the glue that held this team together. He was consistent all year and makes all the hustle plays. He also plays great defense. Thats the argument for him.
I have to disagree with you there. Jeter has never been more than an average shortstop (even the year he won a Gold Glove, which was on the strength of a few plays that ESPN replayed to death). His range is limited.
 
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For those that mentioned clutch hitting, certainly no one has come up bigger when it counts than Ortiz. I know he won't stand much chance of winning, but he will basically but up the same or better numbers than last year in 10-15 fewer games.

When the Sox were mostly healthy, Ortiz was winning game after game for them with his late inning heroics. Then he and many others got hurt and the Sox couldn't win at all in August.

I'm not sure what "most valuable" really means anymore, but IMO Big Papi means as much or more to the Red Sox as Jeter does to the Yanks. Put Ortiz on any other team and they would be leaps and bounds better. Put Jeter on another team and he'd be a very good player, but I don't think he would have the impact that Ortiz would.

I certainly can see the argument that DHs should not be MVPs (I don't see much difference between DHing and being a very poor fielding firstbaseman). Combining the DH factor and the fact that the Red Sox will be lucky to finish third after being in first place for 4 months will probably kill Ortiz, but IMO Ortiz would be a better choice than Jeter.

And I don't think Ortiz is the best choice either, and that's kind of my point--that there ARE several guys that appear to make more sense than Jeter at this point (at least IMO).

And again, this is not a knock on Jeter, as he's had a great season. But I am still not seeing why he is the best player in the A.L. this year.

 
He's a #2 hitting SS who will finish with over 100 RBI's and hit over .335. He's having a great season when two very important bats in his lineup went down for more than half the season. He's the leader on the best team in baseball.Mariano Rivera has been the Yanks MVP for the last decade. He should have won the Cy Young award last year. Pitchers ( and DH's) should never win the MVP award.
Even with Sheffield and Matsui out, the Yankees are on pace to score 925 runs which should be roughly 50 more than any other team. Clearly, the loss of those two bats did not make much of a dent in the Yankees' ability to score runs. The Yankees lineup is loaded--and when they needed a bat they acquired Abreau (who also has produced as good or better than Jeter has hitting .333 with a .921 OPS and 34 RBI in 49 games).I'm not saying that Jeter hasn't had a great year. I'm also not saying that he should not see a few MVP votes. But I'm having a hard time seeing him as anything other than a great player on a great offense. Basically, he's a piece in a big puzzle, and one could certainly argue that he's not even the biggest piece of the Yankees' puzzle.
There were stretches where not only Sheff and Matsui were gone, but where Damon missed time with injury and where A-Rod and Randy Johnson slumped horribly. In addition Posada and Bernie are no where near where they were in their prime. During that stretch Jeter carried the team. They could've easily fallen behind the Red Sox, but didn't because of Jeter.Case in point, look at the lineup they carted out on July 9th:M. Cabrera lf D. Jeter ss J. Giambi dh A. Rodriguez 3b B. Williams cfA. Phillips 1b M. Cairo 2b K. Thompson rf K. Stinnett c Oh yeah! Look at the star power!
 
He's a #2 hitting SS who will finish with over 100 RBI's and hit over .335. He's having a great season when two very important bats in his lineup went down for more than half the season. He's the leader on the best team in baseball.Mariano Rivera has been the Yanks MVP for the last decade. He should have won the Cy Young award last year. Pitchers ( and DH's) should never win the MVP award.
Even with Sheffield and Matsui out, the Yankees are on pace to score 925 runs which should be roughly 50 more than any other team. Clearly, the loss of those two bats did not make much of a dent in the Yankees' ability to score runs. The Yankees lineup is loaded--and when they needed a bat they acquired Abreau (who also has produced as good or better than Jeter has hitting .333 with a .921 OPS and 34 RBI in 49 games).I'm not saying that Jeter hasn't had a great year. I'm also not saying that he should not see a few MVP votes. But I'm having a hard time seeing him as anything other than a great player on a great offense. Basically, he's a piece in a big puzzle, and one could certainly argue that he's not even the biggest piece of the Yankees' puzzle.
There were stretches where not only Sheff and Matsui were gone, but where Damon missed time with injury and where A-Rod and Randy Johnson slumped horribly. In addition Posada and Bernie are no where near where they were in their prime. During that stretch Jeter carried the team. They could've easily fallen behind the Red Sox, but didn't because of Jeter.Case in point, look at the lineup they carted out on July 9th:M. Cabrera lf D. Jeter ss J. Giambi dh A. Rodriguez 3b B. Williams cfA. Phillips 1b M. Cairo 2b K. Thompson rf K. Stinnett c Oh yeah! Look at the star power!
And that was also a game against the Devil Rays the Sunday before the All-Star break...
 
He's a #2 hitting SS who will finish with over 100 RBI's and hit over .335. He's having a great season when two very important bats in his lineup went down for more than half the season. He's the leader on the best team in baseball.Mariano Rivera has been the Yanks MVP for the last decade. He should have won the Cy Young award last year. Pitchers ( and DH's) should never win the MVP award.
Even with Sheffield and Matsui out, the Yankees are on pace to score 925 runs which should be roughly 50 more than any other team. Clearly, the loss of those two bats did not make much of a dent in the Yankees' ability to score runs. The Yankees lineup is loaded--and when they needed a bat they acquired Abreau (who also has produced as good or better than Jeter has hitting .333 with a .921 OPS and 34 RBI in 49 games).I'm not saying that Jeter hasn't had a great year. I'm also not saying that he should not see a few MVP votes. But I'm having a hard time seeing him as anything other than a great player on a great offense. Basically, he's a piece in a big puzzle, and one could certainly argue that he's not even the biggest piece of the Yankees' puzzle.
There were stretches where not only Sheff and Matsui were gone, but where Damon missed time with injury and where A-Rod and Randy Johnson slumped horribly. In addition Posada and Bernie are no where near where they were in their prime. During that stretch Jeter carried the team. They could've easily fallen behind the Red Sox, but didn't because of Jeter.Case in point, look at the lineup they carted out on July 9th:M. Cabrera lf D. Jeter ss J. Giambi dh A. Rodriguez 3b B. Williams cfA. Phillips 1b M. Cairo 2b K. Thompson rf K. Stinnett c Oh yeah! Look at the star power!
And that was also a game against the Devil Rays the Sunday before the All-Star break...
Right, and their July 6th lineup was much stronger. :loco:M. Cabrera lf D. Jeter ss J. Giambi dh A. Rodriguez 3b J. Posada c B. Williams cf A. Phillips 1b A. Guiel rf M. Cairo 2b
 
He's a #2 hitting SS who will finish with over 100 RBI's and hit over .335. He's having a great season when two very important bats in his lineup went down for more than half the season. He's the leader on the best team in baseball.Mariano Rivera has been the Yanks MVP for the last decade. He should have won the Cy Young award last year. Pitchers ( and DH's) should never win the MVP award.
Even with Sheffield and Matsui out, the Yankees are on pace to score 925 runs which should be roughly 50 more than any other team. Clearly, the loss of those two bats did not make much of a dent in the Yankees' ability to score runs. The Yankees lineup is loaded--and when they needed a bat they acquired Abreau (who also has produced as good or better than Jeter has hitting .333 with a .921 OPS and 34 RBI in 49 games).I'm not saying that Jeter hasn't had a great year. I'm also not saying that he should not see a few MVP votes. But I'm having a hard time seeing him as anything other than a great player on a great offense. Basically, he's a piece in a big puzzle, and one could certainly argue that he's not even the biggest piece of the Yankees' puzzle.
There were stretches where not only Sheff and Matsui were gone, but where Damon missed time with injury and where A-Rod and Randy Johnson slumped horribly. In addition Posada and Bernie are no where near where they were in their prime. During that stretch Jeter carried the team. They could've easily fallen behind the Red Sox, but didn't because of Jeter.Case in point, look at the lineup they carted out on July 9th:M. Cabrera lf D. Jeter ss J. Giambi dh A. Rodriguez 3b B. Williams cfA. Phillips 1b M. Cairo 2b K. Thompson rf K. Stinnett c Oh yeah! Look at the star power!
And that was also a game against the Devil Rays the Sunday before the All-Star break...
Right, and their July 6th lineup was much stronger. :loco:M. Cabrera lf D. Jeter ss J. Giambi dh A. Rodriguez 3b J. Posada c B. Williams cf A. Phillips 1b A. Guiel rf M. Cairo 2b
:lmao: You see, outside of Yankee-land, that's what most teams would consider a "normal" lineup. You know, a few stars in the middle of the lineup surrounded by role players and a few veterans. It's what teams that DON'T spend $200 million send out there most days.
 
I have to disagree with you there. Jeter has never been more than an average shortstop (even the year he won a Gold Glove, which was on the strength of a few plays that ESPN replayed to death). His range is limited.
says some new-age stat that some geek decided was important in the last 7 years. I watch a ton of baseball, and Jeter is an above average short stop. He's no ozzie smith or omar vizquel, but ill trust what ive seen with my own two eyes over the past decade over range factor. If that makes me a homer, so be it. But no new stat is going to convince me that jeter is not a very, very good defender.
 
For those that mentioned clutch hitting, certainly no one has come up bigger when it counts than Ortiz. I know he won't stand much chance of winning, but he will basically but up the same or better numbers than last year in 10-15 fewer games. When the Sox were mostly healthy, Ortiz was winning game after game for them with his late inning heroics. Then he and many others got hurt and the Sox couldn't win at all in August.I'm not sure what "most valuable" really means anymore, but IMO Big Papi means as much or more to the Red Sox as Jeter does to the Yanks. Put Ortiz on any other team and they would be leaps and bounds better. Put Jeter on another team and he'd be a very good player, but I don't think he would have the impact that Ortiz would.I certainly can see the argument that DHs should not be MVPs (I don't see much difference between DHing and being a very poor fielding firstbaseman). Combining the DH factor and the fact that the Red Sox will be lucky to finish third after being in first place for 4 months will probably kill Ortiz, but IMO Ortiz would be a better choice than Jeter.And I don't think Ortiz is the best choice either, and that's kind of my point--that there ARE several guys that appear to make more sense than Jeter at this point (at least IMO).And again, this is not a knock on Jeter, as he's had a great season. But I am still not seeing why he is the best player in the A.L. this year.
In a year where there is no clear cut choice, who would you think deserves the award? Dye is in that feeble White Sox lineup.
 
He's a #2 hitting SS who will finish with over 100 RBI's and hit over .335. He's having a great season when two very important bats in his lineup went down for more than half the season. He's the leader on the best team in baseball.Mariano Rivera has been the Yanks MVP for the last decade. He should have won the Cy Young award last year. Pitchers ( and DH's) should never win the MVP award.
Even with Sheffield and Matsui out, the Yankees are on pace to score 925 runs which should be roughly 50 more than any other team. Clearly, the loss of those two bats did not make much of a dent in the Yankees' ability to score runs. The Yankees lineup is loaded--and when they needed a bat they acquired Abreau (who also has produced as good or better than Jeter has hitting .333 with a .921 OPS and 34 RBI in 49 games).I'm not saying that Jeter hasn't had a great year. I'm also not saying that he should not see a few MVP votes. But I'm having a hard time seeing him as anything other than a great player on a great offense. Basically, he's a piece in a big puzzle, and one could certainly argue that he's not even the biggest piece of the Yankees' puzzle.
There were stretches where not only Sheff and Matsui were gone, but where Damon missed time with injury and where A-Rod and Randy Johnson slumped horribly. In addition Posada and Bernie are no where near where they were in their prime. During that stretch Jeter carried the team. They could've easily fallen behind the Red Sox, but didn't because of Jeter.Case in point, look at the lineup they carted out on July 9th:M. Cabrera lf D. Jeter ss J. Giambi dh A. Rodriguez 3b B. Williams cfA. Phillips 1b M. Cairo 2b K. Thompson rf K. Stinnett c Oh yeah! Look at the star power!
And that was also a game against the Devil Rays the Sunday before the All-Star break...
Right, and their July 6th lineup was much stronger. :loco:M. Cabrera lf D. Jeter ss J. Giambi dh A. Rodriguez 3b J. Posada c B. Williams cf A. Phillips 1b A. Guiel rf M. Cairo 2b
:lmao: You see, outside of Yankee-land, that's what most teams would consider a "normal" lineup. You know, a few stars in the middle of the lineup surrounded by role players and a few veterans. It's what teams that DON'T spend $200 million send out there most days.
:goodposting:
 
He's a #2 hitting SS who will finish with over 100 RBI's and hit over .335. He's having a great season when two very important bats in his lineup went down for more than half the season. He's the leader on the best team in baseball.Mariano Rivera has been the Yanks MVP for the last decade. He should have won the Cy Young award last year. Pitchers ( and DH's) should never win the MVP award.
Even with Sheffield and Matsui out, the Yankees are on pace to score 925 runs which should be roughly 50 more than any other team. Clearly, the loss of those two bats did not make much of a dent in the Yankees' ability to score runs. The Yankees lineup is loaded--and when they needed a bat they acquired Abreau (who also has produced as good or better than Jeter has hitting .333 with a .921 OPS and 34 RBI in 49 games).I'm not saying that Jeter hasn't had a great year. I'm also not saying that he should not see a few MVP votes. But I'm having a hard time seeing him as anything other than a great player on a great offense. Basically, he's a piece in a big puzzle, and one could certainly argue that he's not even the biggest piece of the Yankees' puzzle.
There were stretches where not only Sheff and Matsui were gone, but where Damon missed time with injury and where A-Rod and Randy Johnson slumped horribly. In addition Posada and Bernie are no where near where they were in their prime. During that stretch Jeter carried the team. They could've easily fallen behind the Red Sox, but didn't because of Jeter.Case in point, look at the lineup they carted out on July 9th:M. Cabrera lf D. Jeter ss J. Giambi dh A. Rodriguez 3b B. Williams cfA. Phillips 1b M. Cairo 2b K. Thompson rf K. Stinnett c Oh yeah! Look at the star power!
And that was also a game against the Devil Rays the Sunday before the All-Star break...
Right, and their July 6th lineup was much stronger. :loco:M. Cabrera lf D. Jeter ss J. Giambi dh A. Rodriguez 3b J. Posada c B. Williams cf A. Phillips 1b A. Guiel rf M. Cairo 2b
:lmao: You see, outside of Yankee-land, that's what most teams would consider a "normal" lineup. You know, a few stars in the middle of the lineup surrounded by role players and a few veterans. It's what teams that DON'T spend $200 million send out there most days.
:goodposting:
:goodposting:
 
I don't seen any argument working against Jeter until I see one for another player. Comparing Jeter's numbers this year to others in previous years makes no sense. I even had one guy argue that because Darin Erstad had a better year in 2000 and finished 8th, it means Jeter shouldn't win this year. :confused:

With Ortiz getting hurt, Jermaine Dye seems the best contender, at least earlier. Dye has a good case, but his team seems unlikely right now to make the playoffs. Is that fair? No. Since the Yankees attempt to purchase the pennant every year, it isn't fair to exclyude other players. Dye has been clutch too. He can hit, field and run. A decent chance and perhaps my second favorite to win it.

Ortiz has great power numbers, has been the best clutch hitter (especially for a power hitter) in the game, but injuries, not making the playoffs and playing almost exclusively DH hurt him. He won't win it.

Morneau's numbers are great and the Twins have been playing well. He's the main reason the Twins have been such a better team the second half. But the numbers don't stand out enough IMO and playing first base means less impact on the field, although he's one of the better fielding first basemen around.

Santana doesn't stand a chance. It's very rare that a pitcher wins the award and when they do, their season has been beyond extraordinary or the hitting candidates have been relatively worthless. Not this year for Santana.

Jeter has several things going for him. One, he is a very clutch player, both hitting and fielding. It might not necessarily play itself out in the numbers, but it seems when the team needs a big play, Jeter delivers. He also plays shortstop, perhaps the second most demanding position and maybe the most important. And he plays it very well. He hits and with some power. He's been the most important player on the team gliding into the playoffs. He's even been a big threat on the basepaths.

I'm a Yankee hater. Always have been. Jeter also gets way too much publicity, as a Yankee from New York. But I think he deserves the award over the others. Not a gimme, but I don't think I see anyone else that deserves it more.

 
He's a #2 hitting SS who will finish with over 100 RBI's and hit over .335. He's having a great season when two very important bats in his lineup went down for more than half the season. He's the leader on the best team in baseball.Mariano Rivera has been the Yanks MVP for the last decade. He should have won the Cy Young award last year. Pitchers ( and DH's) should never win the MVP award.
Even with Sheffield and Matsui out, the Yankees are on pace to score 925 runs which should be roughly 50 more than any other team. Clearly, the loss of those two bats did not make much of a dent in the Yankees' ability to score runs. The Yankees lineup is loaded--and when they needed a bat they acquired Abreau (who also has produced as good or better than Jeter has hitting .333 with a .921 OPS and 34 RBI in 49 games).I'm not saying that Jeter hasn't had a great year. I'm also not saying that he should not see a few MVP votes. But I'm having a hard time seeing him as anything other than a great player on a great offense. Basically, he's a piece in a big puzzle, and one could certainly argue that he's not even the biggest piece of the Yankees' puzzle.
There were stretches where not only Sheff and Matsui were gone, but where Damon missed time with injury and where A-Rod and Randy Johnson slumped horribly. In addition Posada and Bernie are no where near where they were in their prime. During that stretch Jeter carried the team. They could've easily fallen behind the Red Sox, but didn't because of Jeter.Case in point, look at the lineup they carted out on July 9th:M. Cabrera lf D. Jeter ss J. Giambi dh A. Rodriguez 3b B. Williams cfA. Phillips 1b M. Cairo 2b K. Thompson rf K. Stinnett c Oh yeah! Look at the star power!
And that was also a game against the Devil Rays the Sunday before the All-Star break...
Right, and their July 6th lineup was much stronger. :loco:M. Cabrera lf D. Jeter ss J. Giambi dh A. Rodriguez 3b J. Posada c B. Williams cf A. Phillips 1b A. Guiel rf M. Cairo 2b
:lmao: You see, outside of Yankee-land, that's what most teams would consider a "normal" lineup. You know, a few stars in the middle of the lineup surrounded by role players and a few veterans. It's what teams that DON'T spend $200 million send out there most days.
Do not lump us all together. I don't think I've ever complained about the lineup, except to wonder about certain orders.
 
For those that mentioned clutch hitting, certainly no one has come up bigger when it counts than Ortiz. I know he won't stand much chance of winning, but he will basically but up the same or better numbers than last year in 10-15 fewer games. When the Sox were mostly healthy, Ortiz was winning game after game for them with his late inning heroics. Then he and many others got hurt and the Sox couldn't win at all in August.I'm not sure what "most valuable" really means anymore, but IMO Big Papi means as much or more to the Red Sox as Jeter does to the Yanks. Put Ortiz on any other team and they would be leaps and bounds better. Put Jeter on another team and he'd be a very good player, but I don't think he would have the impact that Ortiz would.I certainly can see the argument that DHs should not be MVPs (I don't see much difference between DHing and being a very poor fielding firstbaseman). Combining the DH factor and the fact that the Red Sox will be lucky to finish third after being in first place for 4 months will probably kill Ortiz, but IMO Ortiz would be a better choice than Jeter.And I don't think Ortiz is the best choice either, and that's kind of my point--that there ARE several guys that appear to make more sense than Jeter at this point (at least IMO).And again, this is not a knock on Jeter, as he's had a great season. But I am still not seeing why he is the best player in the A.L. this year.
In a year where there is no clear cut choice, who would you think deserves the award? Dye is in that feeble White Sox lineup.
With Santana pitching, the Twins have been 25-3 (.893) sine the last week of April. (They went 1-3 in his first 4 starts.). In games with anyone else on the mound, the Twins are 64-55 (.538).I would vote for Santana, although I think he is a longshot to win.
 
He's a #2 hitting SS who will finish with over 100 RBI's and hit over .335. He's having a great season when two very important bats in his lineup went down for more than half the season. He's the leader on the best team in baseball.Mariano Rivera has been the Yanks MVP for the last decade. He should have won the Cy Young award last year. Pitchers ( and DH's) should never win the MVP award.
Even with Sheffield and Matsui out, the Yankees are on pace to score 925 runs which should be roughly 50 more than any other team. Clearly, the loss of those two bats did not make much of a dent in the Yankees' ability to score runs. The Yankees lineup is loaded--and when they needed a bat they acquired Abreau (who also has produced as good or better than Jeter has hitting .333 with a .921 OPS and 34 RBI in 49 games).I'm not saying that Jeter hasn't had a great year. I'm also not saying that he should not see a few MVP votes. But I'm having a hard time seeing him as anything other than a great player on a great offense. Basically, he's a piece in a big puzzle, and one could certainly argue that he's not even the biggest piece of the Yankees' puzzle.
There were stretches where not only Sheff and Matsui were gone, but where Damon missed time with injury and where A-Rod and Randy Johnson slumped horribly. In addition Posada and Bernie are no where near where they were in their prime. During that stretch Jeter carried the team. They could've easily fallen behind the Red Sox, but didn't because of Jeter.Case in point, look at the lineup they carted out on July 9th:M. Cabrera lf D. Jeter ss J. Giambi dh A. Rodriguez 3b B. Williams cfA. Phillips 1b M. Cairo 2b K. Thompson rf K. Stinnett c Oh yeah! Look at the star power!
And that was also a game against the Devil Rays the Sunday before the All-Star break...
Right, and their July 6th lineup was much stronger. :loco:M. Cabrera lf D. Jeter ss J. Giambi dh A. Rodriguez 3b J. Posada c B. Williams cf A. Phillips 1b A. Guiel rf M. Cairo 2b
:lmao: You see, outside of Yankee-land, that's what most teams would consider a "normal" lineup. You know, a few stars in the middle of the lineup surrounded by role players and a few veterans. It's what teams that DON'T spend $200 million send out there most days.
Do not lump us all together. I don't think I've ever complained about the lineup, except to wonder about certain orders.
I'm not complaining about the lineup, just pointing out that Jeter most definately makes in impact in the lineup. It wouldn't be the same without him.
 
For those that mentioned clutch hitting, certainly no one has come up bigger when it counts than Ortiz. I know he won't stand much chance of winning, but he will basically but up the same or better numbers than last year in 10-15 fewer games. When the Sox were mostly healthy, Ortiz was winning game after game for them with his late inning heroics. Then he and many others got hurt and the Sox couldn't win at all in August.I'm not sure what "most valuable" really means anymore, but IMO Big Papi means as much or more to the Red Sox as Jeter does to the Yanks. Put Ortiz on any other team and they would be leaps and bounds better. Put Jeter on another team and he'd be a very good player, but I don't think he would have the impact that Ortiz would.I certainly can see the argument that DHs should not be MVPs (I don't see much difference between DHing and being a very poor fielding firstbaseman). Combining the DH factor and the fact that the Red Sox will be lucky to finish third after being in first place for 4 months will probably kill Ortiz, but IMO Ortiz would be a better choice than Jeter.And I don't think Ortiz is the best choice either, and that's kind of my point--that there ARE several guys that appear to make more sense than Jeter at this point (at least IMO).And again, this is not a knock on Jeter, as he's had a great season. But I am still not seeing why he is the best player in the A.L. this year.
In a year where there is no clear cut choice, who would you think deserves the award? Dye is in that feeble White Sox lineup.
With Santana pitching, the Twins have been 25-3 (.893) sine the last week of April. (They went 1-3 in his first 4 starts.). In games with anyone else on the mound, the Twins are 64-55 (.538).I would vote for Santana, although I think he is a longshot to win.
:goodposting: Santana is the reason the Twins win 90% of the time every 5 days. That's HUGE.He leads all of baseball with 18 wins and 237 K's (40 more than anyone else).He averages just under 7 IP per start, and is 2nd in baseball with 220.7 IP. (Arroyo has 227)Aside from Clemens, Weaver, and Liriano, he has the best ERA of any pitcher with more than 100 IP.He has the best WHIP of any pitcher with more than 100 IP, and there aren't many who are even close.He's the most valuable player in baseball.Edit to add that it doesn't even factor in that he saves wear and tear on the bullpen every 5th day and he's anchored a pitching staff that's lost 2 of it's 3 best pitchers in Liriano and Radke.
 
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I'm not complaining about the lineup, just pointing out that Jeter most definately makes in impact in the lineup. It wouldn't be the same without him.
So for about 2 weeks the NY line up would have been much worse with out JeterTwins line up for the yearCastilloPuntoMauer (only played 138 games)CuddyerMorneauHunter (Was on DL for about a month)White (hitting .240)Tyner BartlettTake Morneau out of that line up and replace him with who? Doggie baseball? Do you think the Twins would be 1/2 gme back (and lock for Wild Card) with out Morneau there?.325 178 Hits 36 2b 1 3b 33HR and 125 RBI are pretty good numbers to me. Top it off he been a pretty good defenive 1b.
 
I don't seen any argument working against Jeter until I see one for another player. Comparing Jeter's numbers this year to others in previous years makes no sense. I even had one guy argue that because Darin Erstad had a better year in 2000 and finished 8th, it means Jeter shouldn't win this year. :confused:With Ortiz getting hurt, Jermaine Dye seems the best contender, at least earlier. Dye has a good case, but his team seems unlikely right now to make the playoffs. Is that fair? No. Since the Yankees attempt to purchase the pennant every year, it isn't fair to exclyude other players. Dye has been clutch too. He can hit, field and run. A decent chance and perhaps my second favorite to win it.Ortiz has great power numbers, has been the best clutch hitter (especially for a power hitter) in the game, but injuries, not making the playoffs and playing almost exclusively DH hurt him. He won't win it.Morneau's numbers are great and the Twins have been playing well. He's the main reason the Twins have been such a better team the second half. But the numbers don't stand out enough IMO and playing first base means less impact on the field, although he's one of the better fielding first basemen around.Santana doesn't stand a chance. It's very rare that a pitcher wins the award and when they do, their season has been beyond extraordinary or the hitting candidates have been relatively worthless. Not this year for Santana.Jeter has several things going for him. One, he is a very clutch player, both hitting and fielding. It might not necessarily play itself out in the numbers, but it seems when the team needs a big play, Jeter delivers. He also plays shortstop, perhaps the second most demanding position and maybe the most important. And he plays it very well. He hits and with some power. He's been the most important player on the team gliding into the playoffs. He's even been a big threat on the basepaths.I'm a Yankee hater. Always have been. Jeter also gets way too much publicity, as a Yankee from New York. But I think he deserves the award over the others. Not a gimme, but I don't think I see anyone else that deserves it more.
I disagree for a variety of reasons, and prior years DO count as far as I'm concerned. As previously outlined, Jeter has not done much better than in the past. His numbers are a smidge above other years, but essentially has been steady and consistent but not eye popping numbers wise. The Yankees as a whole are just as potent (maybe even more potent) offensively than other years.He's had some clutch hits this year, but the barometer in NYC is how has ARod done, so when Jeter gets a few hits when it matters and ARod doesn't, suddenly the boo birds come out and people love Jeter even more when basically the fish bowl that is New York is really only comparing two players.The other morning on Mike and Mike they used a new MVP ranking system that USA Today had developed and Jeter was 9th ot 10th in their rankings. The score system accounted for a player's percentage contribution to his team, his overall numbers, etc. and that's where he came in. I know, there' no consideration for intangibles.As I see it Jeter's 2006 is slightly better than other years but comparible farly close. The Yankees are going to do better this year than last year, so it's not like he "saved" their season. The Yankees will score more runs this year than any of the past 8 seasons. With Jeter's numbers pretty close to normal, that tells me the rest of the team did a lot better or they had better players than in prior seasons. A case could be made that if Wang doesn't have the season he did the Yankees don't win the division (although not the greatest of arguments).IMO, Jeter's biggest selling point is that he plays on the best offense in the league and the Yankees may have the best record so the MVP should come from that team. Using this logic, Reyes should be an MVP candidate for the Mets, as his numbers are farily close to Jeter's.
 
Bill James's Win Shares says Jeter is the MVP of the American League.

It doesn't take into account looks, popularity, hype, or "intangibles."

I hate the Yankees (Sox fan), but I live in NY and watch well over half of their games. I think Jeter is the MVP.

I will listen to arguments for Morneau, Mauer, and Ortiz, but in the end I think Jeter deserves it.

 
I would vote for Santana, although I think he is a longshot to win.
Yeah, the last starting pitcher to win it was Clemens 20 years ago, and I think his year and dominance over the rest was greater than this year's race.
I never said he would win, only that he was who I would vote for. Clearly, if Pedro didn't win in 1999 when he went 23-4 and had an ERA 3 runs better than the league average, then Santana won't win this year.
 
I disagree for a variety of reasons, and prior years DO count as far as I'm concerned.
I don't get why. Should Barry Bonds win it this year because he's done so well in the past? Mourneau hasn't done much before this year. Should he then be excluded? What a player has done in previous years should have little or nothing to do with his winning an award this year, although I admit more credit is given for a player than it should be when he has a history of success. That argument then makes it more compelling to vote for Jeter, not less.I appreciate your thoughts opposed to Jeter, but they mean little until you qualify that with specific players you think should win the award. I tend to agree that in and of itself Jeter's year has not been too extraordinary, but when I look at the others, I don't see compelling arguments over Jeter. Or at the very least, I see enough things about the others that sway me towards Jeter.

 
I would vote for Santana, although I think he is a longshot to win.
Yeah, the last starting pitcher to win it was Clemens 20 years ago, and I think his year and dominance over the rest was greater than this year's race.
I never said he would win, only that he was who I would vote for. Clearly, if Pedro didn't win in 1999 when he went 23-4 and had an ERA 3 runs better than the league average, then Santana won't win this year.
I know. I was agreeing with you.
 
I'm not complaining about the lineup, just pointing out that Jeter most definately makes in impact in the lineup. It wouldn't be the same without him.
So for about 2 weeks the NY line up would have been much worse with out JeterTwins line up for the yearCastilloPuntoMauer (only played 138 games)CuddyerMorneauHunter (Was on DL for about a month)White (hitting .240)Tyner BartlettTake Morneau out of that line up and replace him with who? Doggie baseball? Do you think the Twins would be 1/2 gme back (and lock for Wild Card) with out Morneau there?.325 178 Hits 36 2b 1 3b 33HR and 125 RBI are pretty good numbers to me. Top it off he been a pretty good defenive 1b.
What you're forgetting about Morneau is that he's a stupidface
 
Dave Baker said:
I appreciate your thoughts opposed to Jeter, but they mean little until you qualify that with specific players you think should win the award.
I should qualify this by saying that I know you've stated you'd vote for Santana. I've heard other arguments why, but did you state them? If so, I might have missed it.Anyway, here's an interesting article from ESPN's Jaysont Stark about why Santana should not win MVP

Johan Santana is the most talented, most charismatic, most dominating pitcher in this hemisphere. And that's something we should all be able to agree on, except perhaps for certain members of Roy Halladay's immediate family.

If Santana doesn't win the AL Cy Young award this year, George Mitchell ought to bag his steroid investigation and try looking into something really scandalous.

But now that we have that out of the way, here's one thing Santana isn't:

The MVP of the American League.

Our buddy, Buster Olney, has presented an eloquent MVP case for Santana over the last couple of weeks. Now it's time for The Other Side of that Case:

1. THERE'S A REASON THEY INVENTED THE CY YOUNG And that reason was to make sure that pitchers -- specifically, starting pitchers -- got the trophies, the honors, the accolades and the cash they deserve. You can look that up.

Even a half-century ago, it was obvious the MVP had become largely a position player's award. Not in every case. Not in every year. Not with every player or every pitcher. But had pitchers been viewed as equal MVP material, there would have been no reason the Cy Young would have materialized out of the mist in the '50s.

History could not be more clear on this, even if it spoke in the voice of James Earl Jones.

Starting pitchers won three of the first eight MVP awards handed out by the Baseball Writers Association. But in the last 60 years, things have changed just a mite.

We're now up to 121 MVP trophies handed out in that time. Starting pitchers have won seven of them.

But in the division-play era -- which has lasted 38 seasons -- the trend is so obvious, even your great-grandma could see the writing on this wall and not even need her reading glasses.

Of the 75 MVP awards in this era, starting pitchers have won exactly two more than beer vendors, mascots and even resin bags. Vida Blue (1971) and Roger Clemens (1986) are the only starters since 1969 to win an MVP. And since Clemens won, his fellow starters are 0 for two decades.

That's not a trend. It's an avalanche.

But it says, right there on the instructions to voters, that "all players are eligible for MVP, and that includes pitchers and designated hitters." So because we take that into consideration, we wouldn't say we would never favor a starting pitcher for this award.

It would just take an extraordinary season and an extraordinary set of circumstances.

The pivotal question, then, is as basic as a 3-and-0 fastball: Is Santana's year extraordinary enough to convince voters to rank it above all the compelling position-player seasons on the table, from a field that includes Derek Jeter, Jermaine Dye, David Ortiz and even Santana's own teammate, Justin Morneau? Now let's look at that topic.

2. "TRIPLE CROWN" IS NOT A SYNONYM FOR "MVP" One big item on Santana's MVP qualification list is the surest sign that he has clearly been the very best starting pitcher in his league:

If the season ended in the next 30 seconds, he would win the prestigious "Pitcher's Triple Crown" -- by leading the league in wins, strikeouts and ERA.

History tells us that's a Cy Young award waiting to happen -- because all 11 times a pitcher has pulled off that trifecta since the invention of the Cy Young, that pitcher has won the Cy unanimously.

But MVP? That's another story.

In the division-play era, six pitchers have won the Triple Crown. None of them won the MVP award. Their average finish in the MVP voting: sixth. Only Pedro Martinez (23-4 for the 1999 wild-card Red Sox) made the top three.

But if the season ended today, Santana also would win the Quadruple Crown, since he leads the league in the fourth major category -- innings pitched. No AL pitcher has won The Quad since Hal Newhouser in 1945. And -- whaddaya know -- Newhouser did win the MVP.

What we have to remember, though, is that there weren't as many hitting megastars to compete with back then, since Joe DiMaggio, Ted Williams and so many of their fellow patriots were off to war, trying to win something slightly more significant than trophies. So it was a really, really different era in all kinds of ways.

But we're willing to consider that parallel. Except if we do, we also have to consider the fate of the three NL quadruple-crown winners in the division-play era: Steve Carlton in 1972, Dwight Gooden in 1985 and Randy Johnson in 2002. And those three finished fifth, fourth and seventh in the MVP voting, respectively.

Bob Brenly, who managed Johnson in 2002, told us he doesn't remember any talk of the Unit as MVP back then -- even in a monstrous year (24-5, with 334 strikeouts) for a team that finished first. Of course, Curt Schilling also pitched for that club. And Brenly admits that "when I was sitting in that dugout, I didn't concern myself much with those individual awards."

Nevertheless, Brenly says that with all due respect to Santana, "to me, an MVP is a guy who is out there doing something every day to help his team win." And we agree with every word of that quote.

Great as Santana is, he has had an impact on 32 games this year. Jeter, Dye and Morneau are going to have an impact on 150 games, give or take a few. And while that's not Santana's fault, it's also tough to compete with.

3. WINNING PERCENTAGE DOESN'T EQUAL MVP Santana's No. 1 selling point as an MVP candidate is a stat that homes right in on the heart of his "value" to his team:

When he pitches, the Twins always win.

Well, almost.

Heading into his start Thursday in Boston, his team is 26-6 (.813 winning percentage) when he pitched -- and 64-55 (.538) when anyone else pitched.

Since April 27, when Santana righted himself after an 0-3 start, those numbers get even more insane. The Twins are an off-the-charts 25-3 (.893 winning pct.) in his 28 starts since then. But we should note that their record with anyone else out there (58-46, .558) is also better than it was early on.

So what's the moral of this story? Take Santana away from that team, and the Twins turn into -- what? -- the Blue Jays? Something like that. They wouldn't finish last. But they wouldn't be a team with a shot to pull off one of history's most miraculous comebacks, either. So Santana is, beyond question, a huge difference maker.

That's an argument any rational human should feel obliged to agree with, at least on some level. Which is why Santana at least deserves a place on every voter's ballot.

The only real issue is which place.

But this is also an argument you can play some fun tricks with. The Tigers are playing .741 baseball (23-8) when Kenny Rogers pitches. The Cardinals are playing .667 baseball (20-10) when Chris Carpenter pitches. The Padres are playing .667 ball (14-7) when Woody Williams starts. The Phillies are an .800 team (8-2) when Randy Wolf pitches. There's also a big drop-off for all those teams when other pitchers pitch. That alone doesn't make them plausible MVP candidates.

Or say Santana had gotten hurt in July, but Francisco Liriano had stayed healthy all year. Until Liriano's last two starts of the year, when he wasn't himself, the Twins won nearly 80 percent of Liriano's starts, too (11-3).

If he'd kept that up the rest of the year, but Santana had gone down, would Liriano be the leading MVP candidate? And if the answer is yes, doesn't that indicate that, for at least half the season, Santana had a fellow pitcher in his rotation who was nearly as good -- and valuable -- as he was?

You can chew on that for as long as you'd like. But in the meantime, let's accept the premise that Santana is more valuable than any starting pitcher in his league. Because he is. But is there any recent precedent that suggests he ought to be the MVP?

That answer is a big: no.

We had the Elias Sports Bureau research two questions for us: (1) Over the last 20 years, which 10 pitchers' teams had the best record on days they pitched? And (2) over that same period, which 10 pitchers' teams had the biggest disparity in record when other pitchers pitched?

You can see those charts for yourself. But here's what we learned:

- Santana's 2006 season didn't even make the top 10 in the "best record" study. Which means there were at least 10 pitchers in that time whose teams had even better records when they started than Santana's team does this year. So that makes it tougher to consider his season "extraordinary." And of those other 10, only one (Pedro in '99) was even a factor in the MVP discussion.

- All 10 of those pitchers on the "best record" list pitched for teams that either made the playoffs or were alive until the last week of the season. Outside of Pedro, though, none of the other nine wound up higher than sixth in the MVP election (Randy Johnson's finish, for the '95 Mariners). And from there, they dropped off all the way to Not Receiving One Stinking Vote status (John Smoltz's fate, for the '98 Braves).

- We can work Santana into the top 10 by using that "Compared With Other Pitchers" list. But even using that criterion, his 2006 season still ranks only 10th. So again, we ask: Was this a season so above and beyond other great pitchers' seasons that it merits an MVP award? It's tough to conclude it was. And again, even with this slightly different list, only Pedro was a blip on the MVP screen.

Looking back through those theoretically parallel seasons, we remember the arguments for Martinez in '99 being similar to the case for Santana this year. But in reality, the pitcher whose season was closest to Santana's this year was Johnson in '95.

The story of the Unit's Mariners will sound familiar to anyone following this year's Twins. Both teams were once 12.5 games out of first place. Both got on unconscious late-season rolls. Both started out making apparent wild-card runs, then found themselves still charging in late September with a shot to steal their division.

And above all, both teams had rotations fronted by The One Starter in Baseball Nobody Wanted to Face.

In Seattle's case, that was Johnson, whose team went 27-3 (.900 winning pct.) when he pitched -- and actually had a losing record (52-63) when any other Mariner got the ball.

So the Unit was a man who had an even bigger impact than Santana. And he did it in a season when Ken Griffey Jr. got hurt, removing the most logical Mariners MVP candidate from the entire discussion. Yet Johnson still finished behind five players in the MVP vote -- including two (Edgar Martinez and Jay Buhner) on his own team.

"I think that's a great parallel," said John McLaren, a coach on that Mariners team. "Minnesota was a team just like Seattle was then. They were almost counted out. Nobody wanted to say they were out ... but they were out. And they came back, just like we did."

It was Johnson -- whose team went 15-1 in his last 16 starts -- who pitched them back. But when the MVP debate began, "I never heard his name, to be honest with you," McLaren said.

You never heard it because Martinez hit .356 that year and Buhner mashed 40 homers. And above all, you never heard it because it sold the position players on that team short to suggest it was a pitcher who made those Mariners what they were.

So spin that scenario forward to the 2006 Twins and answer us this: Why isn't Joe Mauer this team's Edgar Martinez? Why isn't Morneau their Jay Buhner?

And why haven't more people noticed that Morneau has driven in more runs (125) than any Twin in history whose name wasn't Killebrew? Why haven't more people noticed that, since June 8, Morneau has hit .374, and knocked in as many runs as Ryan Howard (87 -- tied for the most in baseball)?

That, to us, is what an MVP front-runner looks like. And there isn't an ounce of disrespect to the always-spectacular, always-mesmerizing Johan Santana when we tell you what he looks like:

The Cy Young shoo-in that he is. Period.
 
Dave Baker said:
David Yudkin said:
I disagree for a variety of reasons, and prior years DO count as far as I'm concerned.
I don't get why. Should Barry Bonds win it this year because he's done so well in the past? Mourneau hasn't done much before this year. Should he then be excluded? What a player has done in previous years should have little or nothing to do with his winning an award this year, although I admit more credit is given for a player than it should be when he has a history of success. That argument then makes it more compelling to vote for Jeter, not less.I appreciate your thoughts opposed to Jeter, but they mean little until you qualify that with specific players you think should win the award. I tend to agree that in and of itself Jeter's year has not been too extraordinary, but when I look at the others, I don't see compelling arguments over Jeter. Or at the very least, I see enough things about the others that sway me towards Jeter.
My point on Jeter's past was that in prior seasons Jeter did better and the team did worse. In this particluar season, Jeter did worse (compared to some of his other seasons) and the team did better. That was where I felt that the TEAM did better this year, NOT Jeter.As for the "who else" question, IMO Ortiz, Haffner, and Dye put up better pure numbers. If we have gotten to the stage where you HAVE to be in the playoffs to win, they they won't win. IMO, Morneau also has done better WHEN COMPARED TO THE NUMBERS THE TWINS HAVE PUT UP. While the Twins have a solid lineup, it's not the Yankees. And a case can be made that over the last 4 months the Twins have been the best team in baseball and he was the offensive force. IMO, he was a bigger force in Minnesota than Jeter was in NY when you look at the entire lineup.

I personally do not favor the recent trend of having to make the playoffs to be an MVP, as that rules out a lot of candidates. I wonder if Howard will win in the NL if the Phillies don't win the wildcard.

 
I personally do not favor the recent trend of having to make the playoffs to be an MVP, as that rules out a lot of candidates. I wonder if Howard will win in the NL if the Phillies don't win the wildcard.
I tend to agree. I think Beltran will win over Howard, which is not fair. Howard deserves it.
 
I personally do not favor the recent trend of having to make the playoffs to be an MVP, as that rules out a lot of candidates. I wonder if Howard will win in the NL if the Phillies don't win the wildcard.
I tend to agree. I think Beltran will win over Howard, which is not fair. Howard deserves it.
I think you and I should probably stop or else people will think this is baseballguys.com.
 
ooofffaaa said:
FYI . . . he's not even the best SS in New York.
I can't believe no one else jumped on this stupid comment.It reminds me of the ######## Mets fan who told me all about Edgardo Alphonzo being "head and shoulders" a better player than Jeter.Anyway...I understand the hate for Jeter.It would be cool if he won the MVP, but I'm not going to argue for him. the Yankee team is an all-star team.He's got an MVP already...A World Series MVP award. You can keep those regular season "me" awards.Here's something to consider about the guy though when you say he is overhyped:In the season in which he turned 31, he currectly has 2135 hits...only 7 other guys have done better in the history of baseball.Ty Cobb, Rogers Hornsby, Hank Aaron, Jimmie Foxx, Robin Yount, Mel Ott and Vada Pinson.Yeah he's overhyped :rolleyes:
 
Morneau. Santana is no better or worse than the last couple years but Morneau's emergence is what lifted the offense and the entire team.

 
Morneau. Santana is no better or worse than the last couple years but Morneau's emergence is what lifted the offense and the entire team.
The Twins win games with pitching. Morneau is just Hrbek-lite.
Really? Care to explain April & May? No coincidence that they started to win when Morneau started to hit. Hrbek never had a season like this.
That's cause Hrbek played in the deadball 80s.Anyway, I'm just goofing around. Morneau is having a better offensive year than Jeter. I can't really argue about that. But there's a larger differential between Jeter's numbers and the average SS in the league than Morneau's and the average 1B in the league (I think, haven't number crunched it).
 

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