Chase Stuart
Footballguy
Bonds hit #733 last night, which ties Aaron for the most home runs ever hit by a NLer.
Completely meaningless. Whatever # he ends up with is irrelevent, as is his career. May as well have never played.Bonds hit #733 last night, which ties Aaron for the most home runs ever hit by a NLer.
Completely meaningless. Whatever # he ends up with is irrelevent, as is his career. May as well have never played.Bonds hit #733 last night, which ties Aaron for the most home runs ever hit by a NLer.
Who?Chase Stuart said:Bonds hit #733 last night, which ties Aaron for the most home runs ever hit by a NLer.
Go ahead and add in the majority of the players from the last few years also then. He was far from alone and imo part of the majority.Genedoc said:Completely meaningless. Whatever # he ends up with is irrelevent, as is his career. May as well have never played.Chase Stuart said:Bonds hit #733 last night, which ties Aaron for the most home runs ever hit by a NLer.
fixedCongrats Barry... One of the greatest hitters cheaters of our generation...
Both statements are correct.fixedCongrats Barry... One of the greatest hitters cheaters of our generation...
Which other players have been tied to steroids? I'll gladly add in Giambi if you'd like.Go ahead and add in the majority of the players from the last few years also then. He was far from alone and imo part of the majority.Genedoc said:Completely meaningless. Whatever # he ends up with is irrelevent, as is his career. May as well have never played.Chase Stuart said:Bonds hit #733 last night, which ties Aaron for the most home runs ever hit by a NLer.
With the amount of money involved and no testing until recently, I think we can safely assume there was a lot of steriod use over the last few years. I'm not judging any of the players for doing so but it had to have been very common. Just myWhich other players have been tied to steroids? I'll gladly add in Giambi if you'd like.Go ahead and add in the majority of the players from the last few years also then. He was far from alone and imo part of the majority.Genedoc said:Completely meaningless. Whatever # he ends up with is irrelevent, as is his career. May as well have never played.Chase Stuart said:Bonds hit #733 last night, which ties Aaron for the most home runs ever hit by a NLer.
We can judge them when we have a reason to. We can judge Bonds now.With the amount of money involved and no testing until recently, I think we can safely assume there was a lot of steriod use over the last few years. I'm not judging any of the players for doing so but it had to have been very common. Just myWhich other players have been tied to steroids? I'll gladly add in Giambi if you'd like.Go ahead and add in the majority of the players from the last few years also then. He was far from alone and imo part of the majority.Genedoc said:Completely meaningless. Whatever # he ends up with is irrelevent, as is his career. May as well have never played.Chase Stuart said:Bonds hit #733 last night, which ties Aaron for the most home runs ever hit by a NLer.
Best player of our generation.Congrats Barry... One of the greatest hitters of our generation...
These threads always crack me upWe can judge them when we have a reason to. We can judge Bonds now.With the amount of money involved and no testing until recently, I think we can safely assume there was a lot of steriod use over the last few years. I'm not judging any of the players for doing so but it had to have been very common. Just myWhich other players have been tied to steroids? I'll gladly add in Giambi if you'd like.Go ahead and add in the majority of the players from the last few years also then. He was far from alone and imo part of the majority.Genedoc said:Completely meaningless. Whatever # he ends up with is irrelevent, as is his career. May as well have never played.Chase Stuart said:Bonds hit #733 last night, which ties Aaron for the most home runs ever hit by a NLer.
Yes, we all get it. You applaud the cheater. Nobody else really cares, nor should they.Congrats Barry on breaking the NL record and being at 734...
As is Maris, in my book for the single season record. Bonds mortgaged away any respect when he entered his roid regiment.All I need to say is "GOT JUICE" His records mean nothing to me. Hank Aaron is still number 1 in my book.
"Possibility" ??? Living in a cave much?Even though there's the possibility that he did use performance enhancement drugs, it's still a big milestone and still means something. Look at Canseco and McGwire. They used em and didn't even come close to Bonds' numbers.
Eh, it's not proven yet, but that was not my point."Possibility" ??? Living in a cave much?Even though there's the possibility that he did use performance enhancement drugs, it's still a big milestone and still means something. Look at Canseco and McGwire. They used em and didn't even come close to Bonds' numbers.
Yeah, sure. Neither was OJ beheading his wife. He must be innocent. Can we stop being such stooges about this? He used, and everyone knows it. If you want to argue that his use isn't that big a deal, fine. But, don't play the "well, we don't know for sure" card, because that's just totally disingenuous.Eh, it's not proven yet, but that was not my point."Possibility" ??? Living in a cave much?Even though there's the possibility that he did use performance enhancement drugs, it's still a big milestone and still means something. Look at Canseco and McGwire. They used em and didn't even come close to Bonds' numbers.
So he's the best cheater? Yep, that means somethingEven though there's the possibility that he did use performance enhancement drugs, it's still a big milestone and still means something. Look at Canseco and McGwire. They used em and didn't even come close to Bonds' numbers.
"it's an indisputible fact that bonds was the best hitter of his era (let's call it 1985-2005) by a large margin"Tony Gwynn?the "he cheated and his numbers don't matter" crowd is myopic. does anybody really believe that many, many of the pitchers and hitters of bonds's era weren't juiced on 'roids and/or HGH?
it's an indisputible fact that bonds was the best hitter of his era (let's call it 1985-2005) by a large margin. at the top of his game (when he was 'roided, along with many others) he was far better than everybody else playing. this is not subject to debate. his statistics are all-time-best quality.
aaron and his ilk didn't play against the quality of international competition that the current players must compete against. should we attach an asterisk to all records and statistics achieved in past eras?
Again, serious baseball fans will be largely 'ing over this. It is not an indisputable fact that Bonds was the best hitter of his era, and his statistics are all-time-best quality only in the years he was injecting himself with steroids to become the next cenataur.the "he cheated and his numbers don't matter" crowd is myopic. does anybody really believe that many, many of the pitchers and hitters of bonds's era weren't juiced on 'roids and/or HGH?
it's an indisputible fact that bonds was the best hitter of his era (let's call it 1985-2005) by a large margin. at the top of his game (when he was 'roided, along with many others) he was far better than everybody else playing. this is not subject to debate. his statistics are all-time-best quality.
aaron and his ilk didn't play against the quality of international competition that the current players must compete against. should we attach an asterisk to all records and statistics achieved in past eras?
I can't stand Bonds but this is exactly how I feel. Do you guys that are discrediting Bonds discrediting most of the other great players of his era? If not, then you're setting a blatant double standard. Now, I'm not saying I'm on Bonds's side but, unfortunately, it was the nature of the game at that time. Baseball wasn't doing anything about it and there were millions of dollars at stake. In reality, whether they'll admit it or not, most people would've done the same thing. Get over it.the "he cheated and his numbers don't matter" crowd is myopic. does anybody really believe that many, many of the pitchers and hitters of bonds's era weren't juiced on 'roids and/or HGH?
it's an indisputible fact that bonds was the best hitter of his era (let's call it 1985-2005) by a large margin. at the top of his game (when he was 'roided, along with many others) he was far better than everybody else playing. this is not subject to debate. his statistics are all-time-best quality.
seriously?"it's an indisputible fact that bonds was the best hitter of his era (let's call it 1985-2005) by a large margin"Tony Gwynn?the "he cheated and his numbers don't matter" crowd is myopic. does anybody really believe that many, many of the pitchers and hitters of bonds's era weren't juiced on 'roids and/or HGH?
it's an indisputible fact that bonds was the best hitter of his era (let's call it 1985-2005) by a large margin. at the top of his game (when he was 'roided, along with many others) he was far better than everybody else playing. this is not subject to debate. his statistics are all-time-best quality.
aaron and his ilk didn't play against the quality of international competition that the current players must compete against. should we attach an asterisk to all records and statistics achieved in past eras?
Bonds doesn't look anything like a cenatuar to me. In fact, he looks a whole lot healthier than most people his age, and better than most baseball players his age too. Bonds has hit more home runs than anyone in the history of the NL. If that's not worth a pause or reflection on your part, that's fine -- but I think you're missing out. At this point it's obvious that Bonds is no longer playing at an all time great level (although he's certainly an above average baseball player), so I'd avoid the whole "it's a honor to watch him play" shtick. But it's a tremendously impressive feat, of course, since no one else has ever done it.The steroids talk is irrelevant to me. There never has been, is not, and never will be a level playing field to make meaningful comparisons between players of different eras. But Barry Lamar has hit more homers than any other NLer ever.the years he was injecting himself with steroids to become the next cenataur.
Yes, I also discredit most of the other "great" power hitters of his era, a la McGwire, Canseco, Sosa, Palmeiro, etc., etc., etc. It's not just Bonds. No double standard here. Give me Gwynn, Boggs, Puckett, Ichiro, Jeter, etc. any day over those clowns. These are the best hitters of the 1985-2005 eraI can't stand Bonds but this is exactly how I feel. Do you guys that are discrediting Bonds discrediting most of the other great players of his era? If not, then you're setting a blatant double standard. Now, I'm not saying I'm on Bonds's side but, unfortunately, it was the nature of the game at that time. Baseball wasn't doing anything about it and there were millions of dollars at stake. In reality, whether they'll admit it or not, most people would've done the same thing. Get over it.the "he cheated and his numbers don't matter" crowd is myopic. does anybody really believe that many, many of the pitchers and hitters of bonds's era weren't juiced on 'roids and/or HGH?
it's an indisputible fact that bonds was the best hitter of his era (let's call it 1985-2005) by a large margin. at the top of his game (when he was 'roided, along with many others) he was far better than everybody else playing. this is not subject to debate. his statistics are all-time-best quality.
If you want a single, sure Ichiro would be a good pick. Not if you want anything else, other than a one in three chance at getting a single.Yes, I also discredit most of the other "great" power hitters of his era, a la McGwire, Canseco, Sosa, Palmeiro, etc., etc., etc. It's not just Bonds. No double standard here. Give me Gwynn, Boggs, Puckett, Ichiro, Jeter, etc. any day over those clowns. These are the best hitters of the 1985-2005 eraI can't stand Bonds but this is exactly how I feel. Do you guys that are discrediting Bonds discrediting most of the other great players of his era? If not, then you're setting a blatant double standard. Now, I'm not saying I'm on Bonds's side but, unfortunately, it was the nature of the game at that time. Baseball wasn't doing anything about it and there were millions of dollars at stake. In reality, whether they'll admit it or not, most people would've done the same thing. Get over it.the "he cheated and his numbers don't matter" crowd is myopic. does anybody really believe that many, many of the pitchers and hitters of bonds's era weren't juiced on 'roids and/or HGH?
it's an indisputible fact that bonds was the best hitter of his era (let's call it 1985-2005) by a large margin. at the top of his game (when he was 'roided, along with many others) he was far better than everybody else playing. this is not subject to debate. his statistics are all-time-best quality.
Roid Freeseriously?"it's an indisputible fact that bonds was the best hitter of his era (let's call it 1985-2005) by a large margin"Tony Gwynn?the "he cheated and his numbers don't matter" crowd is myopic. does anybody really believe that many, many of the pitchers and hitters of bonds's era weren't juiced on 'roids and/or HGH?
it's an indisputible fact that bonds was the best hitter of his era (let's call it 1985-2005) by a large margin. at the top of his game (when he was 'roided, along with many others) he was far better than everybody else playing. this is not subject to debate. his statistics are all-time-best quality.
aaron and his ilk didn't play against the quality of international competition that the current players must compete against. should we attach an asterisk to all records and statistics achieved in past eras?
through 2005batting average gwynn .338 bonds .300OBPgwynn .388 bonds .442HR, RBI, BB, SB, slugging, MVPs, OPSnot even closeHitsGwynn 3141 bonds 2742gwynn was a great hitter, but bonds was a far better hitter. counting his 2006 stats, he's got >90% of gwynn's hit total with, obviously, all-time power numbers. #6 all-time on base percentage, #5 all-time slugging, #7 all time RBI, #1 all time BB, #4 all time OPS, #2 all time extra base hits, etc. it's no contest.Tony Gwynn?
You also have to understand though. There are different types of steroids. That don't all blow you up like a balloon and make you super strong. Some of them simply cause your body to heal itself much faster. Considering this, I think you're walking on a very slippery slope when you try to pick out guys who you think have never done them.Yes, I also discredit most of the other "great" power hitters of his era, a la McGwire, Canseco, Sosa, Palmeiro, etc., etc., etc. It's not just Bonds. No double standard here. Give me Gwynn, Boggs, Puckett, Ichiro, Jeter, etc. any day over those clowns. These are the best hitters of the 1985-2005 eraI can't stand Bonds but this is exactly how I feel. Do you guys that are discrediting Bonds discrediting most of the other great players of his era? If not, then you're setting a blatant double standard. Now, I'm not saying I'm on Bonds's side but, unfortunately, it was the nature of the game at that time. Baseball wasn't doing anything about it and there were millions of dollars at stake. In reality, whether they'll admit it or not, most people would've done the same thing. Get over it.the "he cheated and his numbers don't matter" crowd is myopic. does anybody really believe that many, many of the pitchers and hitters of bonds's era weren't juiced on 'roids and/or HGH?
it's an indisputible fact that bonds was the best hitter of his era (let's call it 1985-2005) by a large margin. at the top of his game (when he was 'roided, along with many others) he was far better than everybody else playing. this is not subject to debate. his statistics are all-time-best quality.
griffey?Roid Freeseriously?"it's an indisputible fact that bonds was the best hitter of his era (let's call it 1985-2005) by a large margin"Tony Gwynn?the "he cheated and his numbers don't matter" crowd is myopic. does anybody really believe that many, many of the pitchers and hitters of bonds's era weren't juiced on 'roids and/or HGH?
it's an indisputible fact that bonds was the best hitter of his era (let's call it 1985-2005) by a large margin. at the top of his game (when he was 'roided, along with many others) he was far better than everybody else playing. this is not subject to debate. his statistics are all-time-best quality.
aaron and his ilk didn't play against the quality of international competition that the current players must compete against. should we attach an asterisk to all records and statistics achieved in past eras?
Surprise, surprise. I wonder why Bonds has better power numbers than Gwynn? I am surrendering my argument with this post because I can't really be bothered to argue why Tony Gwynn is a better hitter than Barry Bondsthrough 2005batting average gwynn .338 bonds .300OBPgwynn .388 bonds .442HR, RBI, BB, SB, slugging, MVPs, OPSnot even closeHitsGwynn 3141 bonds 2742gwynn was a great hitter, but bonds was a far better hitter. counting his 2006 stats, he's got >90% of gwynn's hit total with, obviously, all-time power numbers. #6 all-time on base percentage, #5 all-time slugging, #7 all time RBI, #1 all time BB, #4 all time OPS, #2 all time extra base hits, etc. it's no contest.Tony Gwynn?
Yeah, and I'm sure you must have a photo on the wall of some guy back in the 50's (Frank Selvy?) who scored about 100 points in a 40 minute basketball game. And under your gilt photograph it says: "Frank Selvy scored more points in a basketball game than any other NCAAer ever."Big deal.Bonds doesn't look anything like a cenatuar to me. In fact, he looks a whole lot healthier than most people his age, and better than most baseball players his age too. Bonds has hit more home runs than anyone in the history of the NL. If that's not worth a pause or reflection on your part, that's fine -- but I think you're missing out. At this point it's obvious that Bonds is no longer playing at an all time great level (although he's certainly an above average baseball player), so I'd avoid the whole "it's a honor to watch him play" shtick. But it's a tremendously impressive feat, of course, since no one else has ever done it.The steroids talk is irrelevant to me. There never has been, is not, and never will be a level playing field to make meaningful comparisons between players of different eras. But Barry Lamar has hit more homers than any other NLer ever.the years he was injecting himself with steroids to become the next cenataur.
Agreed. There's no reason to think Tony Gwynn didn't take steroids just because he's not very muscular. Remember the first player to fail the steroids test? He was a 170lb pitcher.The steroids that Bonds took didn't make him super strong or balloon up, either. He's the same height and weight as Brett Favre, and much less intimidating than guys like Urlacher and Ray Lewis. Bonds is big and strong, but not that big and strong.You also have to understand though. There are different types of steroids. That don't all blow you up like a balloon and make you super strong. Some of them simply cause your body to heal itself much faster. Considering this, I think you're walking on a very slippery slope when you try to pick out guys who you think have never done them.Yes, I also discredit most of the other "great" power hitters of his era, a la McGwire, Canseco, Sosa, Palmeiro, etc., etc., etc. It's not just Bonds. No double standard here. Give me Gwynn, Boggs, Puckett, Ichiro, Jeter, etc. any day over those clowns. These are the best hitters of the 1985-2005 eraI can't stand Bonds but this is exactly how I feel. Do you guys that are discrediting Bonds discrediting most of the other great players of his era? If not, then you're setting a blatant double standard. Now, I'm not saying I'm on Bonds's side but, unfortunately, it was the nature of the game at that time. Baseball wasn't doing anything about it and there were millions of dollars at stake. In reality, whether they'll admit it or not, most people would've done the same thing. Get over it.the "he cheated and his numbers don't matter" crowd is myopic. does anybody really believe that many, many of the pitchers and hitters of bonds's era weren't juiced on 'roids and/or HGH?
it's an indisputible fact that bonds was the best hitter of his era (let's call it 1985-2005) by a large margin. at the top of his game (when he was 'roided, along with many others) he was far better than everybody else playing. this is not subject to debate. his statistics are all-time-best quality.
Well, my Barry Bonds rookie card that I look at now and again seems to indicate otherwise...........Agreed. There's no reason to think Tony Gwynn didn't take steroids just because he's not very muscular. Remember the first player to fail the steroids test? He was a 170lb pitcher.The steroids that Bonds took didn't make him super strong or balloon up, either. He's the same height and weight as Brett Favre, and much less intimidating than guys like Urlacher and Ray Lewis. Bonds is big and strong, but not that big and strong.You also have to understand though. There are different types of steroids. That don't all blow you up like a balloon and make you super strong. Some of them simply cause your body to heal itself much faster. Considering this, I think you're walking on a very slippery slope when you try to pick out guys who you think have never done them.Yes, I also discredit most of the other "great" power hitters of his era, a la McGwire, Canseco, Sosa, Palmeiro, etc., etc., etc. It's not just Bonds. No double standard here. Give me Gwynn, Boggs, Puckett, Ichiro, Jeter, etc. any day over those clowns. These are the best hitters of the 1985-2005 eraI can't stand Bonds but this is exactly how I feel. Do you guys that are discrediting Bonds discrediting most of the other great players of his era? If not, then you're setting a blatant double standard. Now, I'm not saying I'm on Bonds's side but, unfortunately, it was the nature of the game at that time. Baseball wasn't doing anything about it and there were millions of dollars at stake. In reality, whether they'll admit it or not, most people would've done the same thing. Get over it.the "he cheated and his numbers don't matter" crowd is myopic. does anybody really believe that many, many of the pitchers and hitters of bonds's era weren't juiced on 'roids and/or HGH?
it's an indisputible fact that bonds was the best hitter of his era (let's call it 1985-2005) by a large margin. at the top of his game (when he was 'roided, along with many others) he was far better than everybody else playing. this is not subject to debate. his statistics are all-time-best quality.
No. But if someone scored 102 points in a college basketball game today, I'd think that was a really big deal (although not as big a deal as what Bonds did).I don't have a Hank Aaron poster up either.Yeah, and I'm sure you must have a photo on the wall of some guy back in the 50's (Frank Selvy?) who scored about 100 points in a 40 minute basketball game. And under your gilt photograph it says: "Frank Selvy scored more points in a basketball game than any other NCAAer ever."Big deal.Bonds doesn't look anything like a cenatuar to me. In fact, he looks a whole lot healthier than most people his age, and better than most baseball players his age too. Bonds has hit more home runs than anyone in the history of the NL. If that's not worth a pause or reflection on your part, that's fine -- but I think you're missing out. At this point it's obvious that Bonds is no longer playing at an all time great level (although he's certainly an above average baseball player), so I'd avoid the whole "it's a honor to watch him play" shtick. But it's a tremendously impressive feat, of course, since no one else has ever done it.The steroids talk is irrelevant to me. There never has been, is not, and never will be a level playing field to make meaningful comparisons between players of different eras. But Barry Lamar has hit more homers than any other NLer ever.the years he was injecting himself with steroids to become the next cenataur.
Yeah, and I'm sure you must have a photo on the wall of some guy back in the 50's (Frank Selvy?) who scored about 100 points in a 40 minute basketball game. And under your gilt photograph it says: "Frank Selvy scored more points in a basketball game than any other NCAAer ever."Big deal.Bonds doesn't look anything like a cenatuar to me. In fact, he looks a whole lot healthier than most people his age, and better than most baseball players his age too. Bonds has hit more home runs than anyone in the history of the NL. If that's not worth a pause or reflection on your part, that's fine -- but I think you're missing out. At this point it's obvious that Bonds is no longer playing at an all time great level (although he's certainly an above average baseball player), so I'd avoid the whole "it's a honor to watch him play" shtick. But it's a tremendously impressive feat, of course, since no one else has ever done it.The steroids talk is irrelevant to me. There never has been, is not, and never will be a level playing field to make meaningful comparisons between players of different eras. But Barry Lamar has hit more homers than any other NLer ever.the years he was injecting himself with steroids to become the next cenataur.
Justin Gatlin ran faster than anyone in the history of mankind. Is that not worth a pause or reflection on your part?Bonds doesn't look anything like a cenatuar to me. In fact, he looks a whole lot healthier than most people his age, and better than most baseball players his age too. Bonds has hit more home runs than anyone in the history of the NL. If that's not worth a pause or reflection on your part, that's fine -- but I think you're missing out. At this point it's obvious that Bonds is no longer playing at an all time great level (although he's certainly an above average baseball player), so I'd avoid the whole "it's a honor to watch him play" shtick. But it's a tremendously impressive feat, of course, since no one else has ever done it.the years he was injecting himself with steroids to become the next cenataur.
The steroids talk is irrelevant to me. There never has been, is not, and never will be a level playing field to make meaningful comparisons between players of different eras. But Barry Lamar has hit more homers than any other NLer ever.
I'm more interested in seeing if Howard will break the single season non-steroid home run record.