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Dynasty Rankings (15 Viewers)

Also, I'd like to comment on the stud WR theory for dynasty leagues, since while most here are referencing it as a new idea they're just getting started on trying out, it's something that I'm actually 3 years into right now (I was doing it before doing it was cool :coffee: ).

A brief history. I've always been a RB heavy kind of fantasy player, but am more than willing to adjust any of my opinions as time goes on and we all learn more about the trends of this game (for instance I used to treat TEs like kickers and defenses, now I value them more than probably anyone else in this thread). In my main dynasty league a while back I got lucky with some guys working out better than I ever could have imagined and ended up with a studly cast of RBs. For a few years, I rolled with them and had a lot of success. Not just with a good team, rather with a great team that led the league in points every year, broke records, and won championships.

However, it wasn't long before I could start to see the end coming soon for some of those guys (think Portis 2 years ago), and it felt like it was too soon for the run to be coming to an end. So I decided to move most of them (keeping only Sjax) for younger project running backs and, more importantly, stud wide receivers. Right now, my WR core consists of Larry Fitzgerald, Andre Johnson, and Calvin Johnson. One of the great things about this is the roster flexibility this affords me, because those are literally the only 3 wide receivers on my roster. I simply don't need anyone else, unless it's someone that I think will have some trade value down the line.

That said, my team has gone from great to consistently good. I still easily make the playoffs every year (which is great, because as we all know anything can happen from there), but rarely feel like I have the strongest team. Unless you're getting numbers like Moss put up in his best years or Fitzgerald put up in the NFL playoffs it's just not enough of a difference maker, and you're still left relying on finding those running backs that really work out. The game to game consistency is fantastic, and that's where the top wide receivers really excel, but when it comes down to one game getting a solid 15 points against your opponent's 11 often just is not enough to overcome MJD going for 180 yards and 2 touchdowns against you, those are the kinds of guys that win championships. The preseason WR1 and WR2 are just as unlikely to finish the season as WR1 and WR2 as the running backs are, if not moreso.

It's no surprise to me that the top two scoring teams in the league right now own MJD, Chris Johnson, Thomas Jones, Cedric Benson, and Ronnie Brown, all top running backs this year. And while it's true several of those guys don't hold a ton of dynasty value, and weren't top dynasty players coming into the year, it is what it is and the top ranked WRs right now weren't all exactly top 5 fantasy picks either.

So, while it's nice to have some sure things about WR that you can just set and forget for the next 7-10 years, I'm not so sure it's worth giving up a stud young RB with a shorter shelf-life for. You're looking at 3-4 years of being great and maybe winning 2-3 championships vs. 7-10 years of being just good and maybe getting a lucky playoff run to win 1 if you take that approach, imo. And with the RBs, you can stretch that out by moving them just before their value really drops, which will be tough because it will have to be before any signs of breaking down. Adrian Peterson should be traded after the season he plays at the age of 27, and can nab a king's randsome at that time, even after riding him out for 5 years on your team.

I think in the end, maybe going after 1 truly stud WR is enough. Having a great WR core as a whole is great, but if your'e talking about trading young stud RBs for them it may be too much. I'm 3 years into it and right now I'm having a hell of a time resisting clicking the accept button on a recent Ray Rice for Calvin Johnson trade that was offered to me, knowing that when it comes down to it in the playoffs I'm going to have to match the scores that guys like MJD and Benson are putting up right now.

Granted, this is all fairly anecdotal.

 
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The problem is that there really aren't very many stud RBs. Look at some of the dynasty drafts from the past decade. Most of those guys had 2-3 good years and then flamed out spectacularly. Once upon a time Ricky Williams and Larry Johnson were no-brainer top 3 picks in every dynasty draft. This year you've got guys like Matt Forte and Steve Slaton looking like huge busts for people who bet on them long term. Clinton Portis and LaDainian Tomlinson are a rare breed. Often time you'll end up with Kevin Jones, Joseph Addai, Laurence Maroney, William Green, Michael Bennett, or LaMont Jordan. So while it would be great to build around a star RB, the margin for error is razor thin.

That's true of every position. Certainly we've seen WRs like David Boston and Koren Robinson pull similar disappearing acts, but it seems more common at RB and the consistent performers at WR are often undervalued in comparison (look at guys like Ward, Driver, and Mason). The bottom line for me in most dynasty leagues isn't to obsess about which position you should pick, but rather to ensure that every player you pick has staying power. If you consistently avoid busts in the first 5-6 rounds then you'll probably have a pretty good team regardless of whether you went RB or WR heavy.

That said, I tend to lean heavily towards WRs in PPR leagues because I think they're less volatile.

 
Hey guys. Interested in opinions on B Wells, relative to next year rookie draft picks. Our rookie draft is only 3 rounds long and I've already traded my 1st and 3rd round picks. However, I picked up a 1st from another team, which would be 1.02 based on the standings today. It will definitely be in the top 5, most likely the top 3.

Is Wells worth a top 3 rookie pick?

My current team is listed in my signature if it's helpful. thanks!

 
I also drafted WR heavy in the initial draft for my current dynasty league back in '06 (I'm another guy who did it before it was cool).

I went Ronnie Brown in the first round, and then went Fitz, Boldin, Roy Williams in the next 3 rounds... Granted, Roy didn't pan out (luckily I was able to sell him when he had a great start to the '06 season), but overall it has paid off nicely. Boldin has been studly when he plays and of course Fitz is Fitz. I was also able to pick up Marshall and Jennings in that draft relatively late. Pretty nice that in the initial draft I basically set myself up at the position for years to come with Fitz, Boldin, Jennings, and Marshall. Of course I've since added to the group with the likes of Harvin, Nicks, Rice, and Manningham (and I also had Bowe but sold him last season for draft picks).

Most of the other players I drafted in that first draft are no longer on my roster, but in rounds 5 and 6 I was able to grab Benson and Thomas Jones (who I've since traded away), and I also got MJD late, but stupidly sold him after his hot start, thinking it would not last. The bottom line is, the strategy worked pretty damn well.

 
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ConstruxBoy said:
SSOG said:
That was, in fact, the very first iteration. In my defense, I was 16, and I changed it upon realizing, on second thought, that it was a borderline toolish thing to name oneself. :grad:Although, if I'm being perfectly honest with myself, "borderline toolish" is actually somewhat apt. :coffee:
:lmao: Two years ago or so I had grouped you with LHUCKS and switz as guys that are very hard to listen to, but may be worth it. :D
Definitely hard to listen to, but also definitely above switz and especially LHUCKS.ETA: Yes, hard to listen to but worth it.
 
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SSOG said:
1. The fact that Mendenhall had a total of 19 carries for his entire rookie season is pretty damning in and of itself. He was stuck behind Willie Freaking Parker. Jon Stewart was stuck behind The Renaissance of DeAngelo Williams and he still got 184. When Steven Jackson was stuck behind The Man, The Myth, The Faulk, he still got 134. Besides, it's not as if those 19 carries are all we've seen of him. He got extended action in his first preseason, and was pretty awful during that, as well. It was so bad that one prominent member around here was claiming several weeks into this season that Rashard Mendenhall had not once during a single even borderline-competitive carry (actual season or preseason) made so much as a single positive play. The Mendenhall owners were getting psyched up because he had one good play in week 2 or 3, so they now had SOMETHING positive to point to.

2. None of this changes the fact that Mendenhall has had three good games, and they've all come against three of the worst run defenses in the league. It's shades of Cadillac Williams over here. You point out how poorly Moreno did against SD... allow me to point you to the dozen times I've said that I don't think Moreno is a special talent. That has no bearing on the argument that Mendenhall is not a special talent, either.

3. Yes, I have. All the more reason to like him more going forward. When faced with two unspecial talents, give me the one with the better situation (and with more opportunity to prove me wrong).
Hey if you dont think Mendenhall is an elite talent cool, who am I to convince you otherwise. However I think it is disingenuous for you to manipulate statistics to make your point. Mendenhall only played in 4 games last season due to injury, for you to claim that the reason he only carried the ball 19 times in his rookie season due to being an inferior player is laughable. San Diego may have a porous run defense but Mendenhall is the only rusher to eclipse the 100 (165 to be exact) yard mark against them. Their list of opponents includes Ray Rice and Ronnie Brown. You conveniently exclude Rashard's 6.9 ypc performance against Minnesota, the most stingy run defense against the run the previous two years.

 
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Frank Costanza said:
SSOG said:
1. The fact that Mendenhall had a total of 19 carries for his entire rookie season is pretty damning in and of itself. He was stuck behind Willie Freaking Parker. Jon Stewart was stuck behind The Renaissance of DeAngelo Williams and he still got 184. When Steven Jackson was stuck behind The Man, The Myth, The Faulk, he still got 134. Besides, it's not as if those 19 carries are all we've seen of him. He got extended action in his first preseason, and was pretty awful during that, as well. It was so bad that one prominent member around here was claiming several weeks into this season that Rashard Mendenhall had not once during a single even borderline-competitive carry (actual season or preseason) made so much as a single positive play. The Mendenhall owners were getting psyched up because he had one good play in week 2 or 3, so they now had SOMETHING positive to point to.
Didnt Ray Lewis break one of Mendenhall's bones at the start of last season, putting him on IR?
Four games in. Mendenhall was still on pace for <80 carries.
FreeBaGeL said:
I think it's worthwhile to look at the entire body of work, not just a few games

Here are the numbers for Fitz with/without Warner

With Warner:

6.3 rec, 90.3yds, 0.7 TDs per game

Over a 16 game season, that prorates out to 101 rec, 1445 yds, 11 TDs

Without Warner:

4.6 rec, 60.9yds, 0.46 TDs per game

Over a 16 game season, that prorates out to 74 rec, 974 yds, 7 TDs

Even if we throw out his rookie season, he's still down 200+ yards and 5 TDs.

Without Warner (rookie season thrown out):

5.9rec, 77 yds, 0.41 TDs per game

Over a 16 game season, that prorates out to 94 rec, 1230 yds, 6 TDs

Keep in mind I'm posting this as a Fitzgerald dynasty owner.
I think my comparison was a much fairer comparison. Even if you throw out Fitzgerald's rookie year, you're still leaving in LEINART'S rookie year. Throw out Fitz's rookie year and Leinart's rookie year, and the numbers are basically a wash with/without Warner. Leinart showed in year 2 that Fitz's production with him in year 1 was flukish.Besides, the only reason we're doing these with/without Warner splits is because Warner was awesome in 2008. Prior to 2008, Warner was viewed as just a journeyman replacement-level QB... so the splits really equate to "with a replacement level QB vs. with a sub-replacement level QB".

tl;dr- Very interesting numbers, but 94/1230/6 is still impressive, and I think it's far more relevant how Fitzgerald performed with McCown and a 2nd year Leinart than how he performed with Navarre and a 1st year Leinart. I see no reason to downgrade Fitzgerald from #1 even with the pending QB uncertainty.

FreeBaGeL said:
(for instance I used to treat TEs like kickers and defenses, now I value them more than probably anyone else in this thread).
I don't know about that... :lmao: Anyway, as for the rest of your post... it's true that in order to be a dominant team, you need stud RBs, which is why I said that stud RBs gives you a rosier short-term outlook. What does it for me, though, is that if your WR corps is set, then you can devote a lot more time and effort to finding yourself some stud RBs. Look at the current crop of studs today- CJ, Rice, and MJD were all available in the late first or later in most rookie drafts, Gore was available later than that, Ronnie has been super cheap at several points during his career, Turner and Williams were both dirt cheap assets once upon a time. If your WR corps is set for the next 10 years, then you can devote the remainder of your resources to unearthing the next MJD or Ray Rice or Frank Gore or DeAngelo Williams, and the you have stud WRs *AND* stud RBs.

EBF said:
The bottom line for me in most dynasty leagues isn't to obsess about which position you should pick, but rather to ensure that every player you pick has staying power.
Preach it, brother Funk. Right now, the #1 driving force behind the WR-heavy strategy is the fact that, outside of ADP, MJD, Chris Johnson, and possibly Rice... how many RBs are there that you're reasonably certain will still be studs 3-4 years from now? I would go to Vegas and lay money on Fitzgerald, Johnson, Johnson, Jackson, Roddy White, Marques Colston, etc still be studs in 4 years. There are also a lot more young WRs who I think are more likely to still be studs in 4 years than the young RBs. Many more "sure things" and "long window" players at WR.
 
ConstruxBoy said:
SSOG said:
That was, in fact, the very first iteration. In my defense, I was 16, and I changed it upon realizing, on second thought, that it was a borderline toolish thing to name oneself. :grad:

Although, if I'm being perfectly honest with myself, "borderline toolish" is actually somewhat apt. :confused:
:lmao: Two years ago or so I had grouped you with LHUCKS and switz as guys that are very hard to listen to, but may be worth it.

:D
Definitely hard to listen to, but also definitely above switz and especially LHUCKS.ETA: Yes, hard to listen to but worth it.
I don't know whether to be insulted or flattered. ;)
Hey if you dont think Mendenhall is an elite talent cool, who am I to convince you otherwise. However I think it is disingenuous for you to manipulate statistics to make your point. Mendenhall only played in 4 games last season due to injury, for you to claim that the reason he only carried the ball 19 times in his rookie season due to being an inferior player is laughable.

San Diego may have a porous run defense but Mendenhall is the only rusher to eclipse the 100 (165 to be exact) yard mark against them. Their list of opponents includes Ray Rice and Ronnie Brown. You conveniently exclude Rashard's 6.9 ypc performance against Minnesota, the most stingy run defense against the run the previous two years.
It wasn't the magical "19" number that held any significance, it was the fact that Mendenhall couldn't wrest *ANY* significant carries away from FWP. Buckhalter is as good of an RB as Willie P, and Knowshon Moreno already has a pair of 19+ carry *GAMES* (as well as an 18 carry game and a 17 carry game). Mendenhall couldn't see the field as a rookie. He was kept on the bench by Willie Parker. That's a strike against him.Also speaking of gerrymandering statistics... that "no single RB has run for 100 before" stat is bogus. If Willie Parker was healthy, the Steelers wouldn't have had a single RB run for 100 against San Diego, either- because they'd be using an RBBC, just like Baltimore, just like Miami.

As for Minnesota... I don't find 10 for 69 with a lost fumble to be particularly compelling. If you do, then great. If Mendenhall had only played one game all year, and it was 10 for 69 with a lost fumble against Minnesota (with 1 reception for -1 yards thrown in for good measure), we wouldn't be talking about what an elite talent he was, now would we? In reality, the entire "Mendenhall is a wonderful talent!" argument is absolutely, positively, 100% based on 3 games against 3 of the worst run defenses in the entire NFL.

 
EBF is very High on Ryan Moats.

What do you guys think about him? Is he going to be the new Lead Back in Houston?

In addition, what do you think of Travis Beckum? Is him worth keeping?

Thank you all.

 
ConstruxBoy said:
SSOG said:
That was, in fact, the very first iteration. In my defense, I was 16, and I changed it upon realizing, on second thought, that it was a borderline toolish thing to name oneself. :grad:

Although, if I'm being perfectly honest with myself, "borderline toolish" is actually somewhat apt. :headbang:
:lmao: Two years ago or so I had grouped you with LHUCKS and switz as guys that are very hard to listen to, but may be worth it.

:D
Definitely hard to listen to, but also definitely above switz and especially LHUCKS.ETA: Yes, hard to listen to but worth it.
Yeah, I should have made clear that I meant how he acted a couple of years ago. It seemed like he was away from the boards for awhile and came back as a knowledgeable, personable dynasty guru. Hmmm.... maybe he went down to Clarksdale?

:D

 
F&L/SSOG,

From a dynasty perspective, who do you like better between Braylon Edwards and Mike Sims-Walker and why?

Braylon's been a beast in the past, but he's also had problems with the drops, has an uncertin short-term outlook at QB and now plays in an environment that can be unfriendly to the passing game late in seasons (Meadowlands). MSW has had his various injuries that may be bad luck, or possibly just the start of an injury-prone career. But he's rarely looked bad when he's played, and is talented enough to have been considered better than Brandon Marshall in college. Also has a shaky QB situation in the near term, though probably less so than Braylon.

 
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EBF is very High on Ryan Moats.
Eh, I don't know if I'd go that far quite yet.Moats fits the mold of past waiver wire breakouts like Rudi Johnson and Domanick Davis. That doesn't mean he's guaranteed to have the same success. It just means he has a chance. He's certainly a much better prospect than other recent flavors of the week like Peyton Hillis or Ryan Torain. Moats was a superstar in college and a very high draft pick. Players like that are always worth monitoring, particularly when they explode in their first real opportunity.
 
Just picked up Seahawks RB Louis Rankin in the FB Guys Dynasty Thread League.

Then I posted this on Rotoworld:

Coach Jim Mora suggested that third-string RB Louis Rankin will get a chance to take over the role held by Edgerrin James in the Seahawks offense.

"That man is extremely fast and shifty," Mora said. "And on a daily basis we watch him go out there and give our defense a real test. And so we want to see that." The team seems to prefer Justin Forsett in a passing-down role, so Rankin will spell Julius Jones as James had done. With more chaff than wheat ahead of him on the depth chart, Rankin is worth a flier in deep Dynasty leagues.
Source article
 
F&L/SSOG,From a dynasty perspective, who do you like better between Braylon Edwards and Mike Sims-Walker and why?Braylon's been a beast in the past, but he's also had problems with the drops, has an uncertin short-term outlook at QB and now plays in an environment that can be unfriendly to the passing game late in seasons (Meadowlands). MSW has had his various injuries that may be bad luck, or possibly just the start of an injury-prone career. But he's rarely looked bad when he's played, and is talented enough to have been considered better than Brandon Marshall in college. Also has a shaky QB situation in the near term, though probably less so than Braylon.
I feel like maybe I should feel otherwise, but as a Sims-Walker owner, I wouldn't trade him for Braylon straight up. Edwards has only topped 900 yards once in his career. His career high in receptions is 80. He was a monster a couple of years ago, but it was because he caught a TD for every 5 catches that year- there's nothing else in his history that suggests that's anything other than a massive fluke (for the rest of his career, he's averaging a TD per every 11.5 catches). In his career year, if he'd caught TDs at a more normal rate you're looking at an 80/1200/8 season- hardly the stuff that legends are built on. This year, he's on pace for 384 yards. Mitigating circumstances aside, that's unbelievable. Good WRs *NEVER* play 16 games and fail to crack 400 yards. Jerry Rice, at age 42, managed to top 400 yards despite getting traded from Oakland to Seattle (although Rice did play 17 games that year, so he had a chance to pad his stats :thumbup: ). Massaquoi had almost as many receiving yards in one game as Braylon has in 8. It's just really, really hard to get excited about Braylon Edwards. On the other hand, it's not the slightest bit hard to get excited for Sims-Walker. I'm not as down on Garrard as many around here, and all Sims-Walker has done so far is produce (last week notwithstanding). The fact that he's cheaper and 2 years younger is just icing on the cake.
 
F&L/SSOG,

From a dynasty perspective, who do you like better between Braylon Edwards and Mike Sims-Walker and why?

Braylon's been a beast in the past, but he's also had problems with the drops, has an uncertin short-term outlook at QB and now plays in an environment that can be unfriendly to the passing game late in seasons (Meadowlands). MSW has had his various injuries that may be bad luck, or possibly just the start of an injury-prone career. But he's rarely looked bad when he's played, and is talented enough to have been considered better than Brandon Marshall in college. Also has a shaky QB situation in the near term, though probably less so than Braylon.
I feel like maybe I should feel otherwise, but as a Sims-Walker owner, I wouldn't trade him for Braylon straight up. Edwards has only topped 900 yards once in his career. His career high in receptions is 80. He was a monster a couple of years ago, but it was because he caught a TD for every 5 catches that year- there's nothing else in his history that suggests that's anything other than a massive fluke (for the rest of his career, he's averaging a TD per every 11.5 catches). In his career year, if he'd caught TDs at a more normal rate you're looking at an 80/1200/8 season- hardly the stuff that legends are built on. This year, he's on pace for 384 yards. Mitigating circumstances aside, that's unbelievable. Good WRs *NEVER* play 16 games and fail to crack 400 yards. Jerry Rice, at age 42, managed to top 400 yards despite getting traded from Oakland to Seattle (although Rice did play 17 games that year, so he had a chance to pad his stats :thumbup: ). Massaquoi had almost as many receiving yards in one game as Braylon has in 8. It's just really, really hard to get excited about Braylon Edwards. On the other hand, it's not the slightest bit hard to get excited for Sims-Walker. I'm not as down on Garrard as many around here, and all Sims-Walker has done so far is produce (last week notwithstanding). The fact that he's cheaper and 2 years younger is just icing on the cake.
Not sure you checked your math on this one. He has 23 grabs for 331 yards in 8 games. Walker is at 30 catches for 407, TDs 3-2 in favour of MSW. Maybe MSW is a better player, although I don't think so. But I think you only looked at Edwards' stats since arriving in NY.
 
Not sure you checked your math on this one. He has 23 grabs for 331 yards in 8 games. Walker is at 30 catches for 407, TDs 3-2 in favour of MSW. Maybe MSW is a better player, although I don't think so. But I think you only looked at Edwards' stats since arriving in NY.
Ah yes, you're right. The stats are wrong on his pfr page. I actually did a bit of a double take because I didn't think he was doing THAT poorly this season.Anyway, Edwards has 23/331/2 in 8 games. MSW has 30/407/3... in 5 games. Over 16 games, Braylon's numbers prorate to 46/662/4. Over 16 games, MSW's numbers prorate to 96/1302/10. Even looking just at Braylon's Jets numbers (which are his better set), you're looking at 52/768/8. And even if you want to give him a pass for this season, there's been very little in his career to inspire confidence. Sure, he's been in an awful situation, but when you lead the league in drops by a substantial margin you don't get to blame your lack of production on your supporting cast. Right now, if MSW can keep up his current pace, I actually think this year for him is as good as Braylon's age 24 season (as I said, his pace is 96/1302/10 over 16 games, while Braylon's best season was 80/1286/16- the TD numbers are way off, but as I said, I think the TDs were a fluke, and that's the most volatile stat, anyway).

I was never that high on Braylon to begin with, and I'm always quicker to jump ship on guys I didn't like in the first place.

 
Braylon's trade value is in the dumper as well. I've been trying to move him since he was traded to New York and all I've received are a couple of offers from owners willing to give up a late 1st and a throw in. As a Browns fan, I've never been real high on Braylon, but he's worth more than a late 1st, especially considering the 2010 class is not exactly inspiring.

 
Let's talk Tier 2 Dynasty QB's!! Roethleisberger - PIT seems to be leaning on the pass more. He's looking good!Ryan - Needs more weapons to be effective. I watched the game Mon night and w/o Roddy + Gonzo who would he throw to. I'm sure they will address this in the draft next year. For a guy previously ranked in Tier 1 I am just not that impressed with him. He could be the next Peyton though but I think it's a year or two out.Rivers - I've always liked him and with VJax emerging as a stud WR he's looking even better. I look forward to seeing how Floyd will be utilized.Romo - Finally has a WR that can catch the ball and isn't a distraction. Wondering what happened to Witten though. Will he choke again down the stretch or is he finally living up to his expectations?Flacco - (See Ryan) needs additional young targets to throw to. I like his poise and leadership qualities. Some days I'd prefer him over Ryan.Schaub - I think he's finally going to beat the "injury-prone" rap and finish as a top-5 QB. Losing OD hurts a bit though.Cutler - You bust his mouth up and he still plays as well as he can behind an O-line that leaves much to be desired. I'm not so sure Lovie & Co are the best group of coaches to further his development. He is still very inconsistent but has a ton of options to throw to contrary to pre-season thoughts. Very interested to hear your comments regarding these guys in dynasty format. In my league the top-tier of QB's are untouchable so for the forseeable future this is all I have to choose from. I currently own Cutler, Warner and Stafford and we start 1 QB each week.
Big Ben - One of the best QBs in the game, period. The Steelers' best offense clearly revolves around keeping the ball in his hands in an uptempo style.Ryan - You just saw his worst game of the year. He's fine for now and gold in the future. Return of slot receiver Harry Douglass next year will help too.Rivers - What's not to like? Not a superstar, but should be Top-10 for years.Romo - As Magaw said, Austin has "weaponized" him once again. He's a good bet for 30 TDs in any year where he has a legit No. 1 receiver.Flacco - Would love to see him with more talent at wide receiver, but he's a young Big Ben and making good with what he has. His arm strength, decision-making, and intangibles are off the charts.Schaub - Let's see how he handles the loss of Daniels. Still believe he's a better fantasy QB than NFL QB.Cutler - I got a good idea about that 10-cent head of his. Still think he's Jeff George Jr. He's a doucher.
I have a glut of RBs and can only start 2 of them, but last year I got burned with Palmer's injury and no depth behind him, so I'm considering acquiring a 2nd tier QB before this year's playoffs (fairly confident I will make the playoffs).However I already own Carson Palmer and Matt Stafford (and would give up Stafford and a RB in a potential trade). Since I feel pretty confident that Palmer can maintain 2nd tier type QB production himself and doubt I can get Brees, Manning, Brady, I'ld like to trade for a 2nd tier QB that has the best or most upside or chance of becoming a tier 1 QB in the future. My choices are to stay put with Palmer and Matt Stafford (and hope Stafford can develop) or trade from my depth at RB to pick up one of the aforementioned 2nd tier QBs. I am solid everywhere and am a contender, but am waffling because I'm afraid I will pick the wrong QB to trade for, or that I will strengthen a competitor to the point of having them use the RB I trade them to beat me later on in the playoffs. (Ten team league, can only start 2 RBs and I'm hoarding MJD, CJ, SJax, & Turner - all four in the top 8 or 9 in RB scoring in my league).Any advice on strategy or strong opinions about which 2nd tier QBs to focus on acquiring?
 
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EBF is very High on Ryan Moats.
Eh, I don't know if I'd go that far quite yet.Moats fits the mold of past waiver wire breakouts like Rudi Johnson and Domanick Davis. That doesn't mean he's guaranteed to have the same success. It just means he has a chance. He's certainly a much better prospect than other recent flavors of the week like Peyton Hillis or Ryan Torain. Moats was a superstar in college and a very high draft pick. Players like that are always worth monitoring, particularly when they explode in their first real opportunity.
The problem I have with this statement is that it was NOT his first "real opportunity". He had a couple chances in Philly to show off his skills. He definately can run, but his deficiencies in other areas kept him buried on depth charts for 4 years now. This cat may be a quality COP back, but it's not likely he becomes a starter, let alone a superstar starter.Let someone else spend thier entire BB budget on him.
 
SSOG said:
I know there was a thread somewhere about starting a dynasty with links to a bunch of rules and setup, etc.

Maybe I'm just searching wrong but does anyone know where that thread is?
http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...t=0&start=0IIRC, It used to be pinned once upon a time. No clue why it isn't anymore, very useful thread.
Thanks but that's not the one I was thinking of.I thought there was one pinned. that had rules for a startup leauge. With links and examples. Like how to assign contracts, handle cuts, etc etc.

I'm in one league presently but was thinking of branching out to maybe start another.

Thanks again.

 
Just picked up Seahawks RB Louis Rankin in the FB Guys Dynasty Thread League.

Then I posted this on Rotoworld:

Coach Jim Mora suggested that third-string RB Louis Rankin will get a chance to take over the role held by Edgerrin James in the Seahawks offense.

"That man is extremely fast and shifty," Mora said. "And on a daily basis we watch him go out there and give our defense a real test. And so we want to see that." The team seems to prefer Justin Forsett in a passing-down role, so Rankin will spell Julius Jones as James had done. With more chaff than wheat ahead of him on the depth chart, Rankin is worth a flier in deep Dynasty leagues.
Source article
What tier would you consider him , a tier 8.I was thinking of releasing BJGE for him since I have Julius Jones. I know it's not a major play but was wondering who you would value more going forward.

 
Just picked up Seahawks RB Louis Rankin in the FB Guys Dynasty Thread League.

Then I posted this on Rotoworld:

Coach Jim Mora suggested that third-string RB Louis Rankin will get a chance to take over the role held by Edgerrin James in the Seahawks offense.

"That man is extremely fast and shifty," Mora said. "And on a daily basis we watch him go out there and give our defense a real test. And so we want to see that." The team seems to prefer Justin Forsett in a passing-down role, so Rankin will spell Julius Jones as James had done. With more chaff than wheat ahead of him on the depth chart, Rankin is worth a flier in deep Dynasty leagues.
Source article
What tier would you consider him , a tier 8.I was thinking of releasing BJGE for him since I have Julius Jones. I know it's not a major play but was wondering who you would value more going forward.
I prefer Rankin. It's not like either back is anything more than a flier, but Rankin has a better chance of taking over starting duties for awhile ... at which point he becomes trade bait.
 
The problem I have with this statement is that it was NOT his first "real opportunity". He had a couple chances in Philly to show off his skills. He definately can run, but his deficiencies in other areas kept him buried on depth charts for 4 years now. This cat may be a quality COP back, but it's not likely he becomes a starter, let alone a superstar starter.

Let someone else spend thier entire BB budget on him.
Totally agree with the bolded statement. Moats is a good runner, but his blocking was terrible in Philly. That was the main reason he didn't play- he couldn't pick up the blitz. I think the best case scenario is that he's in a RBBC, but no way do I see him becoming the primary RB in HOU.
 
Just picked up Seahawks RB Louis Rankin in the FB Guys Dynasty Thread League.

Then I posted this on Rotoworld:

Coach Jim Mora suggested that third-string RB Louis Rankin will get a chance to take over the role held by Edgerrin James in the Seahawks offense.

"That man is extremely fast and shifty," Mora said. "And on a daily basis we watch him go out there and give our defense a real test. And so we want to see that." The team seems to prefer Justin Forsett in a passing-down role, so Rankin will spell Julius Jones as James had done. With more chaff than wheat ahead of him on the depth chart, Rankin is worth a flier in deep Dynasty leagues.
Source article
What tier would you consider him , a tier 8.I was thinking of releasing BJGE for him since I have Julius Jones. I know it's not a major play but was wondering who you would value more going forward.
I prefer Rankin. It's not like either back is anything more than a flier, but Rankin has a better chance of taking over starting duties for awhile ... at which point he becomes trade bait.
There wasn't much talk about it a couple months ago and he's had more than one shot with the Raiders, but then again, it's the Raiders. I thought he was the best looking RB on Oakland's roster in the preseason. Better than ALL of them, so it makes sense that he got cut. He may be a scat back type, but I thought he also delivered a blow at the end of his runs, ran with good balance and took on blocks with gusto. I liked him but had no faith in ANY Oakland RB, so didn't bring it up.
 
Let's talk Tier 2 Dynasty QB's!! Roethleisberger - PIT seems to be leaning on the pass more. He's looking good!Ryan - Needs more weapons to be effective. I watched the game Mon night and w/o Roddy + Gonzo who would he throw to. I'm sure they will address this in the draft next year. For a guy previously ranked in Tier 1 I am just not that impressed with him. He could be the next Peyton though but I think it's a year or two out.Rivers - I've always liked him and with VJax emerging as a stud WR he's looking even better. I look forward to seeing how Floyd will be utilized.Romo - Finally has a WR that can catch the ball and isn't a distraction. Wondering what happened to Witten though. Will he choke again down the stretch or is he finally living up to his expectations?Flacco - (See Ryan) needs additional young targets to throw to. I like his poise and leadership qualities. Some days I'd prefer him over Ryan.Schaub - I think he's finally going to beat the "injury-prone" rap and finish as a top-5 QB. Losing OD hurts a bit though.Cutler - You bust his mouth up and he still plays as well as he can behind an O-line that leaves much to be desired. I'm not so sure Lovie & Co are the best group of coaches to further his development. He is still very inconsistent but has a ton of options to throw to contrary to pre-season thoughts. Very interested to hear your comments regarding these guys in dynasty format. In my league the top-tier of QB's are untouchable so for the forseeable future this is all I have to choose from. I currently own Cutler, Warner and Stafford and we start 1 QB each week.
Big Ben - One of the best QBs in the game, period. The Steelers' best offense clearly revolves around keeping the ball in his hands in an uptempo style.Ryan - You just saw his worst game of the year. He's fine for now and gold in the future. Return of slot receiver Harry Douglass next year will help too.Rivers - What's not to like? Not a superstar, but should be Top-10 for years.Romo - As Magaw said, Austin has "weaponized" him once again. He's a good bet for 30 TDs in any year where he has a legit No. 1 receiver.Flacco - Would love to see him with more talent at wide receiver, but he's a young Big Ben and making good with what he has. His arm strength, decision-making, and intangibles are off the charts.Schaub - Let's see how he handles the loss of Daniels. Still believe he's a better fantasy QB than NFL QB.Cutler - I got a good idea about that 10-cent head of his. Still think he's Jeff George Jr. He's a doucher.
I have a glut of RBs and can only start 2 of them, but last year I got burned with Palmer's injury and no depth behind him, so I'm considering acquiring a 2nd tier QB before this year's playoffs (fairly confident I will make the playoffs).However I already own Carson Palmer and Matt Stafford (and would give up Stafford and a RB in a potential trade). Since I feel pretty confident that Palmer can maintain 2nd tier type QB production himself and doubt I can get Brees, Manning, Brady, I'ld like to trade for a 2nd tier QB that has the best or most upside or chance of becoming a tier 1 QB in the future. My choices are to stay put with Palmer and Matt Stafford (and hope Stafford can develop) or trade from my depth at RB to pick up one of the aforementioned 2nd tier QBs. I am solid everywhere and am a contender, but am waffling because I'm afraid I will pick the wrong QB to trade for, or that I will strengthen a competitor to the point of having them use the RB I trade them to beat me later on in the playoffs. (Ten team league, can only start 2 RBs and I'm hoarding MJD, CJ, SJax, & Turner - all four in the top 8 or 9 in RB scoring in my league).Any advice on strategy or strong opinions about which 2nd tier QBs to focus on acquiring?
I'd answer, but I am biased. :lol:
 
geoff8695 said:
I have a glut of RBs and can only start 2 of them, but last year I got burned with Palmer's injury and no depth behind him, so I'm considering acquiring a 2nd tier QB before this year's playoffs (fairly confident I will make the playoffs).

However I already own Carson Palmer and Matt Stafford (and would give up Stafford and a RB in a potential trade).

Since I feel pretty confident that Palmer can maintain 2nd tier type QB production himself and doubt I can get Brees, Manning, Brady, I'ld like to trade for a 2nd tier QB that has the best or most upside or chance of becoming a tier 1 QB in the future.

My choices are to stay put with Palmer and Matt Stafford (and hope Stafford can develop) or trade from my depth at RB to pick up one of the aforementioned 2nd tier QBs. I am solid everywhere and am a contender, but am waffling because I'm afraid I will pick the wrong QB to trade for, or that I will strengthen a competitor to the point of having them use the RB I trade them to beat me later on in the playoffs. (Ten team league, can only start 2 RBs and I'm hoarding MJD, CJ, SJax, & Turner - all four in the top 8 or 9 in RB scoring in my league).

Any advice on strategy or strong opinions about which 2nd tier QBs to focus on acquiring?
With that running back depth you really ought to be able to get a top tier QB. I wouldn't trade any of those running backs for any of the quarterbacks in that 2nd tier unless you were getting an additional significant player. Something like Turner for Rothlisberger AND Bowe for example.
 
DoubleG said:
geoff8695 said:
I have a glut of RBs and can only start 2 of them, but last year I got burned with Palmer's injury and no depth behind him, so I'm considering acquiring a 2nd tier QB before this year's playoffs (fairly confident I will make the playoffs).However I already own Carson Palmer and Matt Stafford (and would give up Stafford and a RB in a potential trade). Since I feel pretty confident that Palmer can maintain 2nd tier type QB production himself and doubt I can get Brees, Manning, Brady, I'ld like to trade for a 2nd tier QB that has the best or most upside or chance of becoming a tier 1 QB in the future. My choices are to stay put with Palmer and Matt Stafford (and hope Stafford can develop) or trade from my depth at RB to pick up one of the aforementioned 2nd tier QBs. I am solid everywhere and am a contender, but am waffling because I'm afraid I will pick the wrong QB to trade for, or that I will strengthen a competitor to the point of having them use the RB I trade them to beat me later on in the playoffs. (Ten team league, can only start 2 RBs and I'm hoarding MJD, CJ, SJax, & Turner - all four in the top 8 or 9 in RB scoring in my league).Any advice on strategy or strong opinions about which 2nd tier QBs to focus on acquiring?
I'd answer, but I am biased. ;)
LOL - Thought for a second about creating an alias and crafting a more generic question, but it's not like you wouldn't have realized it was me. :lmao:
 
geoff8695 said:
I have a glut of RBs and can only start 2 of them, but last year I got burned with Palmer's injury and no depth behind him, so I'm considering acquiring a 2nd tier QB before this year's playoffs (fairly confident I will make the playoffs).

However I already own Carson Palmer and Matt Stafford (and would give up Stafford and a RB in a potential trade).

Since I feel pretty confident that Palmer can maintain 2nd tier type QB production himself and doubt I can get Brees, Manning, Brady, I'ld like to trade for a 2nd tier QB that has the best or most upside or chance of becoming a tier 1 QB in the future.

My choices are to stay put with Palmer and Matt Stafford (and hope Stafford can develop) or trade from my depth at RB to pick up one of the aforementioned 2nd tier QBs. I am solid everywhere and am a contender, but am waffling because I'm afraid I will pick the wrong QB to trade for, or that I will strengthen a competitor to the point of having them use the RB I trade them to beat me later on in the playoffs. (Ten team league, can only start 2 RBs and I'm hoarding MJD, CJ, SJax, & Turner - all four in the top 8 or 9 in RB scoring in my league).

Any advice on strategy or strong opinions about which 2nd tier QBs to focus on acquiring?
With that running back depth you really ought to be able to get a top tier QB. I wouldn't trade any of those running backs for any of the quarterbacks in that 2nd tier unless you were getting an additional significant player. Something like Turner for Rothlisberger AND Bowe for example.
I don't see any tier 1 QBs being traded in this league... And yes, I would definitely be asking for more than JUST A QB, but situations are a little different depending on trade partners and I didn't want to go into all the possible combinations here. Rest assured that some combination of WR(s) would also be part of the deal, but I didn't want this to be an analysis of "how did I do" on a trade. Instead, I'm most interested in deciding which QBs to target for greatest upside, or conversely if people think it's a bad strategy to put a #1 RB back into circulation, given that I control four RB1s in a 10 team league which only allows 2 starting RBs per team (no FLEX).

That's an advantage in and of itself, whether it's as a protection against injuries, or an advantage over opponents by limiting the supply of #1 RBs.

 
geoff8695 said:
Fear & Loathing said:
WFR said:
Let's talk Tier 2 Dynasty QB's!! Roethleisberger - PIT seems to be leaning on the pass more. He's looking good!Ryan - Needs more weapons to be effective. I watched the game Mon night and w/o Roddy + Gonzo who would he throw to. I'm sure they will address this in the draft next year. For a guy previously ranked in Tier 1 I am just not that impressed with him. He could be the next Peyton though but I think it's a year or two out.Rivers - I've always liked him and with VJax emerging as a stud WR he's looking even better. I look forward to seeing how Floyd will be utilized.Romo - Finally has a WR that can catch the ball and isn't a distraction. Wondering what happened to Witten though. Will he choke again down the stretch or is he finally living up to his expectations?Flacco - (See Ryan) needs additional young targets to throw to. I like his poise and leadership qualities. Some days I'd prefer him over Ryan.Schaub - I think he's finally going to beat the "injury-prone" rap and finish as a top-5 QB. Losing OD hurts a bit though.Cutler - You bust his mouth up and he still plays as well as he can behind an O-line that leaves much to be desired. I'm not so sure Lovie & Co are the best group of coaches to further his development. He is still very inconsistent but has a ton of options to throw to contrary to pre-season thoughts. Very interested to hear your comments regarding these guys in dynasty format. In my league the top-tier of QB's are untouchable so for the forseeable future this is all I have to choose from. I currently own Cutler, Warner and Stafford and we start 1 QB each week.
Big Ben - One of the best QBs in the game, period. The Steelers' best offense clearly revolves around keeping the ball in his hands in an uptempo style.Ryan - You just saw his worst game of the year. He's fine for now and gold in the future. Return of slot receiver Harry Douglass next year will help too.Rivers - What's not to like? Not a superstar, but should be Top-10 for years.Romo - As Magaw said, Austin has "weaponized" him once again. He's a good bet for 30 TDs in any year where he has a legit No. 1 receiver.Flacco - Would love to see him with more talent at wide receiver, but he's a young Big Ben and making good with what he has. His arm strength, decision-making, and intangibles are off the charts.Schaub - Let's see how he handles the loss of Daniels. Still believe he's a better fantasy QB than NFL QB.Cutler - I got a good idea about that 10-cent head of his. Still think he's Jeff George Jr. He's a doucher.
I have a glut of RBs and can only start 2 of them, but last year I got burned with Palmer's injury and no depth behind him, so I'm considering acquiring a 2nd tier QB before this year's playoffs (fairly confident I will make the playoffs).However I already own Carson Palmer and Matt Stafford (and would give up Stafford and a RB in a potential trade). Since I feel pretty confident that Palmer can maintain 2nd tier type QB production himself and doubt I can get Brees, Manning, Brady, I'ld like to trade for a 2nd tier QB that has the best or most upside or chance of becoming a tier 1 QB in the future. My choices are to stay put with Palmer and Matt Stafford (and hope Stafford can develop) or trade from my depth at RB to pick up one of the aforementioned 2nd tier QBs. I am solid everywhere and am a contender, but am waffling because I'm afraid I will pick the wrong QB to trade for, or that I will strengthen a competitor to the point of having them use the RB I trade them to beat me later on in the playoffs. (Ten team league, can only start 2 RBs and I'm hoarding MJD, CJ, SJax, & Turner - all four in the top 8 or 9 in RB scoring in my league).Any advice on strategy or strong opinions about which 2nd tier QBs to focus on acquiring?
Similar situation here. I had McNabb and Sanchez. Rest of roster is strong (AP, MJD, Jennings, Colston, Boldin, Gates, ...). McNabb is erratic and can get hurt. So I was shopping hard for second tier QB.I ended up trading Sanchez and Donald Brown for Big Ben. Ben was an easy choice in this league because he cap contract is reasonable. But putting that aside, I think he's a good player to go after because many still think the Steelers are a run first team. And many owners got burned by him last season. It looks like last season was just a hiccup.Go find out what it would cost you to get Ben.
 
Hey if you dont think Mendenhall is an elite talent cool, who am I to convince you otherwise. However I think it is disingenuous for you to manipulate statistics to make your point. Mendenhall only played in 4 games last season due to injury, for you to claim that the reason he only carried the ball 19 times in his rookie season due to being an inferior player is laughable.

San Diego may have a porous run defense but Mendenhall is the only rusher to eclipse the 100 (165 to be exact) yard mark against them. Their list of opponents includes Ray Rice and Ronnie Brown. You conveniently exclude Rashard's 6.9 ypc performance against Minnesota, the most stingy run defense against the run the previous two years.
It wasn't the magical "19" number that held any significance, it was the fact that Mendenhall couldn't wrest *ANY* significant carries away from FWP. Buckhalter is as good of an RB as Willie P, and Knowshon Moreno already has a pair of 19+ carry *GAMES* (as well as an 18 carry game and a 17 carry game). Mendenhall couldn't see the field as a rookie. He was kept on the bench by Willie Parker. That's a strike against him.Also speaking of gerrymandering statistics... that "no single RB has run for 100 before" stat is bogus. If Willie Parker was healthy, the Steelers wouldn't have had a single RB run for 100 against San Diego, either- because they'd be using an RBBC, just like Baltimore, just like Miami.

As for Minnesota... I don't find 10 for 69 with a lost fumble to be particularly compelling. If you do, then great. If Mendenhall had only played one game all year, and it was 10 for 69 with a lost fumble against Minnesota (with 1 reception for -1 yards thrown in for good measure), we wouldn't be talking about what an elite talent he was, now would we? In reality, the entire "Mendenhall is a wonderful talent!" argument is absolutely, positively, 100% based on 3 games against 3 of the worst run defenses in the entire NFL.
Parker starting over Mendenhall isn't indicative of him being a better player. There is more to being a starting running back than running the ball, this has been illustrated by Beanie Wells and most notably DeAngelo Williams. You as a Bronco fan should remember Portis playing behind Mike Anderson and Olandis Gary the first few games of his rookie season (9 carries through 2 games). I'm more concerned with what Mendenhall has been able to accomplish when given an opportunity.Mendenhall's production against San Diego exceeds the combined totals of both Baltimore & Miami running backs.

Code:
Miami Backs		 26	 130	 5.00	 1	Baltimore Backs	 23	 115	 5.00	 2Mendenhall		  29	 165	 5.69	 2
Should Mendenhall be inducted into Canton after his game against Minn? No. I brought up this game to refute your allegation that he is only productive because he played bad defenses. Minnesota currently has the longest streak of games without allowing a 100 yard rusher, Mendenhall managed to gain 69 yards on only 10 carries, without the benefit of a run that exceeded twenty yards. I think it is reasonable to assume that if given enough carries he would have snapped their streak.
 
Similar situation here. I had McNabb and Sanchez. Rest of roster is strong (AP, MJD, Jennings, Colston, Boldin, Gates, ...). McNabb is erratic and can get hurt. So I was shopping hard for second tier QB.I ended up trading Sanchez and Donald Brown for Big Ben. Ben was an easy choice in this league because he cap contract is reasonable. But putting that aside, I think he's a good player to go after because many still think the Steelers are a run first team. And many owners got burned by him last season. It looks like last season was just a hiccup.Go find out what it would cost you to get Ben.
I hear you on Roethlisberger. I really like Big Ben's skillset and moxie, but he's been up and down from a fantasy perspective from year to year. Plus from what I've seen he absorbs a lot of punishment and I wonder if either injuries or Pittsburgh's weather and traditional emphasis on ball control offense will keep him from making a long term jump into tier 1.Similarly, Cutler is taking a physical beating and his situation in Chicago may not lend itself to consistently producing like a fantasy uber stud, but I do trust him to remain in tier 2 on talent alone (much like Ben).I also like Matt Ryan's fast start in the NFL and the fact he plays in a dome/warm weather, but I'm concerned by his declining comp % and increased INTs in year two (I think Yards per attempt and Comp % are critical in assessing a QBs worth), but NFL pundits LOVE this guy as a future Manning type.I also like Rivers and Romo about equally well for opportunity/weather, good YPA and comp % (although in the past Romo turns the ball over too much and Rivers comp % has dipped below 60% this year).I'm just having a hard time commiting to which one to go after because they are so close IMO. Also, I'm really not sure what I have in Stafford right now. There's always the possibility that this #1 pick overall in the 2009 draft turns out to be as good as any of these guys, and keeping him instead of making a trade won't cost me anything.
 
GreatLakesMike said:
Braylon's trade value is in the dumper as well. I've been trying to move him since he was traded to New York and all I've received are a couple of offers from owners willing to give up a late 1st and a throw in. As a Browns fan, I've never been real high on Braylon, but he's worth more than a late 1st, especially considering the 2010 class is not exactly inspiring.
I dunno, I don't think a late first is too far off. I've got Braylon outside of my current top 20. Harvin and Crabtree, two guys currently ahead of Braylon in my rankings, were both late firsts in several leagues. Depending on what kind of "throw in" we're talking about, I'd consider that relatively fair, if a touch low (but when the seller is the initiator, he generally has to resign himself to taking a touch below market because the other guy knows he's motivated to sell, just like when the buyer is the initiator he generally has to pay a touch above market because the other guy knows he's motivated to buy). Besides, even if you don't like late firsts yourself, I find that around draft time the words "first rounder" acquire a mythical property and can be used to secure all kinds of veteran talent. I got Gore this offseason from a rebuilding team for the last pick in the first round and my 2010 first rounder.I guess it depends on what kind of throw-in we're talking about, here. A late first and Antonio Bryant? Sure. A late first and Limas Sweed? No.
 
Parker starting over Mendenhall isn't indicative of him being a better player. There is more to being a starting running back than running the ball, this has been illustrated by Beanie Wells and most notably DeAngelo Williams. You as a Bronco fan should remember Portis playing behind Mike Anderson and Olandis Gary the first few games of his rookie season (9 carries through 2 games). I'm more concerned with what Mendenhall has been able to accomplish when given an opportunity.Mendenhall's production against San Diego exceeds the combined totals of both Baltimore & Miami running backs.

Code:
Miami Backs		 26	 130	 5.00	 1	Baltimore Backs	 23	 115	 5.00	 2Mendenhall		  29	 165	 5.69	 2
Should Mendenhall be inducted into Canton after his game against Minn? No. I brought up this game to refute your allegation that he is only productive because he played bad defenses. Minnesota currently has the longest streak of games without allowing a 100 yard rusher, Mendenhall managed to gain 69 yards on only 10 carries, without the benefit of a run that exceeded twenty yards. I think it is reasonable to assume that if given enough carries he would have snapped their streak.
I do remember Portis being behind Anderson and Gary. I also remember realizing it was only a matter of time, because Portis was clearly so much better than both of them, based on TCs and preseason. Mendenhall was never in that same situation, where Pittsburgh fans were calling for him to get some work because he was so clearly better than FWP. Apples and dumptrucks.Also, would Mendenhall have broken Minnesota's streak if given enough carries? Sure. So would a lot of RBs. Minnesota is 13th in the league in ypc allowed, the only reason for their streak in the first place is because their 2nd in carries faced. So, Mendenhall couldn't break a streak whose basis was RBs not getting many carries because... he didn't get enough carries. Not particularly relevant. :banned:Hey, if you want to crown his ###, then crown it. Personally, I think Mendenhall is who I thought he was, and I'm not going to let him off the hook.Also, for what it's worth, this is spoken as a Mendenhall owner. I have him in a keep-3 league where keeping players requires you to forfeit a pick 2 rounds higher than what the player cost this year. As a result, the best keepers in the league are guys like Colston, MJD, Wayne- guys who were kept ages ago because they were borderline starters with a ridiculously low cost who then developed into NFL studs but kept their ridiculously low cost. I've made a living in that league out of speculating on young RBs buried on the depth chart who might one day become starters- I unearthed MJD, Chester Taylor, Michael Turner, Marion Barber, and Steven Jackson. Mendenhall is just the latest in a long line for me. I drafted Mendenhall in the 17th because I realized it was a near-certainty that he'd be a starting RB next year, and now that he's broken out, he's practically untradeable, because if he becomes a perennial top-20 RB with that keeper price he'll pair with MJD to pretty much secure me many championships to come. I'd say he's one of the 6 or 7 best keeper prospects in the league right now. I turned down a trade where I gave Brady/Mendenhall/Desean and got Manning/Wayne (the only potential keepers involved are Mendenhall, who keeps for a 15th, and Wayne, who keeps for a 6th), mostly because I thought that Desean was as good as Wayne this year and Mendenhall was a better keeper. So it's not like I think that Mendenhall is a bum or a terrible prospect. I just think he's an unspecial RB. I'd love Moreno just as much as a keeper prospect if I could keep him for a 15th next year, too. Like I said, there's a dearth of special RBs right now, and as a result, a lot of unspecial RBs are getting ranked pretty high. That doesn't mean they're suddenly special players just because of their high ranking.
 
geoff8695 said:
I have a glut of RBs and can only start 2 of them, but last year I got burned with Palmer's injury and no depth behind him, so I'm considering acquiring a 2nd tier QB before this year's playoffs (fairly confident I will make the playoffs).

However I already own Carson Palmer and Matt Stafford (and would give up Stafford and a RB in a potential trade).

Since I feel pretty confident that Palmer can maintain 2nd tier type QB production himself and doubt I can get Brees, Manning, Brady, I'ld like to trade for a 2nd tier QB that has the best or most upside or chance of becoming a tier 1 QB in the future.

My choices are to stay put with Palmer and Matt Stafford (and hope Stafford can develop) or trade from my depth at RB to pick up one of the aforementioned 2nd tier QBs. I am solid everywhere and am a contender, but am waffling because I'm afraid I will pick the wrong QB to trade for, or that I will strengthen a competitor to the point of having them use the RB I trade them to beat me later on in the playoffs. (Ten team league, can only start 2 RBs and I'm hoarding MJD, CJ, SJax, & Turner - all four in the top 8 or 9 in RB scoring in my league).

Any advice on strategy or strong opinions about which 2nd tier QBs to focus on acquiring?
With that running back depth you really ought to be able to get a top tier QB. I wouldn't trade any of those running backs for any of the quarterbacks in that 2nd tier unless you were getting an additional significant player. Something like Turner for Rothlisberger AND Bowe for example.
I don't see any tier 1 QBs being traded in this league... And yes, I would definitely be asking for more than JUST A QB, but situations are a little different depending on trade partners and I didn't want to go into all the possible combinations here. Rest assured that some combination of WR(s) would also be part of the deal, but I didn't want this to be an analysis of "how did I do" on a trade. Instead, I'm most interested in deciding which QBs to target for greatest upside, or conversely if people think it's a bad strategy to put a #1 RB back into circulation, given that I control four RB1s in a 10 team league which only allows 2 starting RBs per team (no FLEX).

That's an advantage in and of itself, whether it's as a protection against injuries, or an advantage over opponents by limiting the supply of #1 RBs.
To be honest, the tier 2 QBs are relatively tightly bunched in my mind (at least, Ryan/Rivers/Roethlisberger/Rodgers are), so it'd probably depend for me on which owner was giving me the best offer.I'm really surprised that a CJ/Stafford package wouldn't be enough to secure a Drew Brees, though. In a startup dynasty, I'd imagine CJ would go over Brees 75+% of the time.

 
geoff8695 said:
I have a glut of RBs and can only start 2 of them, but last year I got burned with Palmer's injury and no depth behind him, so I'm considering acquiring a 2nd tier QB before this year's playoffs (fairly confident I will make the playoffs).

However I already own Carson Palmer and Matt Stafford (and would give up Stafford and a RB in a potential trade).

Since I feel pretty confident that Palmer can maintain 2nd tier type QB production himself and doubt I can get Brees, Manning, Brady, I'ld like to trade for a 2nd tier QB that has the best or most upside or chance of becoming a tier 1 QB in the future.

My choices are to stay put with Palmer and Matt Stafford (and hope Stafford can develop) or trade from my depth at RB to pick up one of the aforementioned 2nd tier QBs. I am solid everywhere and am a contender, but am waffling because I'm afraid I will pick the wrong QB to trade for, or that I will strengthen a competitor to the point of having them use the RB I trade them to beat me later on in the playoffs. (Ten team league, can only start 2 RBs and I'm hoarding MJD, CJ, SJax, & Turner - all four in the top 8 or 9 in RB scoring in my league).

Any advice on strategy or strong opinions about which 2nd tier QBs to focus on acquiring?
With that running back depth you really ought to be able to get a top tier QB. I wouldn't trade any of those running backs for any of the quarterbacks in that 2nd tier unless you were getting an additional significant player. Something like Turner for Rothlisberger AND Bowe for example.
I don't see any tier 1 QBs being traded in this league... And yes, I would definitely be asking for more than JUST A QB, but situations are a little different depending on trade partners and I didn't want to go into all the possible combinations here. Rest assured that some combination of WR(s) would also be part of the deal, but I didn't want this to be an analysis of "how did I do" on a trade. Instead, I'm most interested in deciding which QBs to target for greatest upside, or conversely if people think it's a bad strategy to put a #1 RB back into circulation, given that I control four RB1s in a 10 team league which only allows 2 starting RBs per team (no FLEX).

That's an advantage in and of itself, whether it's as a protection against injuries, or an advantage over opponents by limiting the supply of #1 RBs.
To be honest, the tier 2 QBs are relatively tightly bunched in my mind (at least, Ryan/Rivers/Roethlisberger/Rodgers are), so it'd probably depend for me on which owner was giving me the best offer.I'm really surprised that a CJ/Stafford package wouldn't be enough to secure a Drew Brees, though. In a startup dynasty, I'd imagine CJ would go over Brees 75+% of the time.
This is kind of what I was getting at. I think just in general that I wouldn't trade any of those running backs with the intention of getting any of those quarter backs. If you are trading MJD, CJ, SJAX, or Turner and getting one of those Tier 2 QBs it ought to be because the QB is a throw in. I would prefer to keep those four running backs and role with Palmer than trade one of them to get a guy to play matchups at QB with. UNLESS you are getting another substantial asset in return (like your WR are terrible and you are also getting a top 10-15 WR).
 
GreatLakesMike said:
Braylon's trade value is in the dumper as well. I've been trying to move him since he was traded to New York and all I've received are a couple of offers from owners willing to give up a late 1st and a throw in. As a Browns fan, I've never been real high on Braylon, but he's worth more than a late 1st, especially considering the 2010 class is not exactly inspiring.
I dunno, I don't think a late first is too far off. I've got Braylon outside of my current top 20. Harvin and Crabtree, two guys currently ahead of Braylon in my rankings, were both late firsts in several leagues. Depending on what kind of "throw in" we're talking about, I'd consider that relatively fair, if a touch low (but when the seller is the initiator, he generally has to resign himself to taking a touch below market because the other guy knows he's motivated to sell, just like when the buyer is the initiator he generally has to pay a touch above market because the other guy knows he's motivated to buy). Besides, even if you don't like late firsts yourself, I find that around draft time the words "first rounder" acquire a mythical property and can be used to secure all kinds of veteran talent. I got Gore this offseason from a rebuilding team for the last pick in the first round and my 2010 first rounder.I guess it depends on what kind of throw-in we're talking about, here. A late first and Antonio Bryant? Sure. A late first and Limas Sweed? No.
The throw-ins were junk and I wasn't even looking at a 1.08 pick, more like a 1.10 to 1.12. I think a Sims-Walker owner could presently trade Walker for a late 1st, so the point I was trying to make is that if an owner is trying to decide between Walker and Braylon, then perceived value shouldn't really come into play. I probably should have been more clear. The rookies you mentioned came from a pretty deep class, and are now worth more than where they were drafted. Next year's class appears to be very weak. Of course, things could change, but presently, this class has P.U. written all over it. Nice trade getting Gore for a late and future 1st round pick. :football:
 
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Similar situation here. I had McNabb and Sanchez. Rest of roster is strong (AP, MJD, Jennings, Colston, Boldin, Gates, ...). McNabb is erratic and can get hurt. So I was shopping hard for second tier QB.I ended up trading Sanchez and Donald Brown for Big Ben. Ben was an easy choice in this league because he cap contract is reasonable. But putting that aside, I think he's a good player to go after because many still think the Steelers are a run first team. And many owners got burned by him last season. It looks like last season was just a hiccup.Go find out what it would cost you to get Ben.
I hear you on Roethlisberger. I really like Big Ben's skillset and moxie, but he's been up and down from a fantasy perspective from year to year. Plus from what I've seen he absorbs a lot of punishment and I wonder if either injuries or Pittsburgh's weather and traditional emphasis on ball control offense will keep him from making a long term jump into tier 1.Similarly, Cutler is taking a physical beating and his situation in Chicago may not lend itself to consistently producing like a fantasy uber stud, but I do trust him to remain in tier 2 on talent alone (much like Ben).I also like Matt Ryan's fast start in the NFL and the fact he plays in a dome/warm weather, but I'm concerned by his declining comp % and increased INTs in year two (I think Yards per attempt and Comp % are critical in assessing a QBs worth), but NFL pundits LOVE this guy as a future Manning type.I also like Rivers and Romo about equally well for opportunity/weather, good YPA and comp % (although in the past Romo turns the ball over too much and Rivers comp % has dipped below 60% this year).I'm just having a hard time commiting to which one to go after because they are so close IMO. Also, I'm really not sure what I have in Stafford right now. There's always the possibility that this #1 pick overall in the 2009 draft turns out to be as good as any of these guys, and keeping him instead of making a trade won't cost me anything.
You've got questions about all of them, which is why they are tier 2 and not tier 1. If none stands out, then go after the one that is the cheapest to acquire. I think that may be Ben. Depends on situation.How I like to differentiate:1. Individual talent.2. Quality of Team's Offense (high scoring, lots of yards)3. Pass/Run tendency4. Quality of OL5. Quality of other offensive skill players6. Qualify of defense (does it lead to more passing).I think Rivers jumps out in those categories, but I think many folks view him as Tier 1. There's no way I could have acquired Rivers for the same package as Ben.I think you're overly concerned about Ben's "inconsistency" and "injury history". First, production is highly dependent on opponent. He had a tough schedule last year. Also, the offense is changing to pass-first.On injury, he plays QB. They are all injury risks. Yes, Ben gets hit more, but he also looks to be one of the toughest QBs out there. In the long run, you would think that Pitt will go out and get him some OL. Then his stock starts to go up.
 
geoff8695 said:
I have a glut of RBs and can only start 2 of them, but last year I got burned with Palmer's injury and no depth behind him, so I'm considering acquiring a 2nd tier QB before this year's playoffs (fairly confident I will make the playoffs).

However I already own Carson Palmer and Matt Stafford (and would give up Stafford and a RB in a potential trade).

Since I feel pretty confident that Palmer can maintain 2nd tier type QB production himself and doubt I can get Brees, Manning, Brady, I'ld like to trade for a 2nd tier QB that has the best or most upside or chance of becoming a tier 1 QB in the future.

My choices are to stay put with Palmer and Matt Stafford (and hope Stafford can develop) or trade from my depth at RB to pick up one of the aforementioned 2nd tier QBs. I am solid everywhere and am a contender, but am waffling because I'm afraid I will pick the wrong QB to trade for, or that I will strengthen a competitor to the point of having them use the RB I trade them to beat me later on in the playoffs. (Ten team league, can only start 2 RBs and I'm hoarding MJD, CJ, SJax, & Turner - all four in the top 8 or 9 in RB scoring in my league).

Any advice on strategy or strong opinions about which 2nd tier QBs to focus on acquiring?
With that running back depth you really ought to be able to get a top tier QB. I wouldn't trade any of those running backs for any of the quarterbacks in that 2nd tier unless you were getting an additional significant player. Something like Turner for Rothlisberger AND Bowe for example.
I don't see any tier 1 QBs being traded in this league... And yes, I would definitely be asking for more than JUST A QB, but situations are a little different depending on trade partners and I didn't want to go into all the possible combinations here. Rest assured that some combination of WR(s) would also be part of the deal, but I didn't want this to be an analysis of "how did I do" on a trade. Instead, I'm most interested in deciding which QBs to target for greatest upside, or conversely if people think it's a bad strategy to put a #1 RB back into circulation, given that I control four RB1s in a 10 team league which only allows 2 starting RBs per team (no FLEX).

That's an advantage in and of itself, whether it's as a protection against injuries, or an advantage over opponents by limiting the supply of #1 RBs.
To be honest, the tier 2 QBs are relatively tightly bunched in my mind (at least, Ryan/Rivers/Roethlisberger/Rodgers are), so it'd probably depend for me on which owner was giving me the best offer.I'm really surprised that a CJ/Stafford package wouldn't be enough to secure a Drew Brees, though. In a startup dynasty, I'd imagine CJ would go over Brees 75+% of the time.
This is kind of what I was getting at. I think just in general that I wouldn't trade any of those running backs with the intention of getting any of those quarter backs. If you are trading MJD, CJ, SJAX, or Turner and getting one of those Tier 2 QBs it ought to be because the QB is a throw in. I would prefer to keep those four running backs and role with Palmer than trade one of them to get a guy to play matchups at QB with. UNLESS you are getting another substantial asset in return (like your WR are terrible and you are also getting a top 10-15 WR).
I agree. It's rarely ever a good idea to trade a solid piece for parts in dynasty leagues. I think he already has a low end #1 with upside in Palmer, and a solid prospect in Stafford. If worse comes to worse and Palmer goes down, he can always trade a RB for a QB. There will be plenty of owners lined up to take a solid RB off his hands. Again though, if it's me, I like Rivers the best from that Tier 2 group. Solid QB with weapons around him and a pass first offense.
 
This is kind of what I was getting at. I think just in general that I wouldn't trade any of those running backs with the intention of getting any of those quarter backs. If you are trading MJD, CJ, SJAX, or Turner and getting one of those Tier 2 QBs it ought to be because the QB is a throw in. I would prefer to keep those four running backs and role with Palmer than trade one of them to get a guy to play matchups at QB with. UNLESS you are getting another substantial asset in return (like your WR are terrible and you are also getting a top 10-15 WR).
If I were that deep at RB, I'd be able to trade CJ or SJax for a Rivers + Quality Player package as long was the quality player was a genuinely quality player (i.e. a Stewart, Mendenhall, Harvin, Holmes, etc). I'd be willing to trade Turner for Rivers straight up. I'm using Rivers in these comparisons because I think he's the QB where everyone is most in agreement on his value- I'd substitute Roethlisberger or Ryan for Rivers in those discussions, but a lot of people wouldn't.
The rookies you mentioned came from a pretty deep class, and are now worth more than where they were drafted. Next year's class appears to be very weak. Of course, things could change, but presently, this class has P.U. written all over it. Nice trade getting Gore for a late and future 1st round pick. :thumbup:
This year's class wasn't particularly deep (I really only like Moreno, Harvin, Nicks, and Crabtree of the first rounders going forward), it's just that value always falls- typically at WR while everyone is busy gobbling up mediocre RBs like Shonn Greene.
 
This is kind of what I was getting at. I think just in general that I wouldn't trade any of those running backs with the intention of getting any of those quarter backs. If you are trading MJD, CJ, SJAX, or Turner and getting one of those Tier 2 QBs it ought to be because the QB is a throw in. I would prefer to keep those four running backs and role with Palmer than trade one of them to get a guy to play matchups at QB with. UNLESS you are getting another substantial asset in return (like your WR are terrible and you are also getting a top 10-15 WR).
If I were that deep at RB, I'd be able to trade CJ or SJax for a Rivers + Quality Player package as long was the quality player was a genuinely quality player (i.e. a Stewart, Mendenhall, Harvin, Holmes, etc). I'd be willing to trade Turner for Rivers straight up. I'm using Rivers in these comparisons because I think he's the QB where everyone is most in agreement on his value- I'd substitute Roethlisberger or Ryan for Rivers in those discussions, but a lot of people wouldn't.
The rookies you mentioned came from a pretty deep class, and are now worth more than where they were drafted. Next year's class appears to be very weak. Of course, things could change, but presently, this class has P.U. written all over it.

Nice trade getting Gore for a late and future 1st round pick. :bye:
This year's class wasn't particularly deep (I really only like Moreno, Harvin, Nicks, and Crabtree of the first rounders going forward), it's just that value always falls- typically at WR while everyone is busy gobbling up mediocre RBs like Shonn Greene.
I agree. I guess I like this class more than you. I'm down on notable 1st round picks such as Sanchez, McCoy, Greene, and Moreno, but I think Beanie, Crabtree, Brown, Britt, Nicks, Maclin, Harvin, and Stafford will be solid. I think in a few years, we'll look at this class as one of the best WR classes in a long time.

 
Interesting that Kolby Smith barely makes your list. Do you like Charles that much better than him? Or was that due to injury/lack of opportunity when that list was posted?

 
This year's class wasn't particularly deep (I really only like Moreno, Harvin, Nicks, and Crabtree of the first rounders going forward), it's just that value always falls- typically at WR while everyone is busy gobbling up mediocre RBs like Shonn Greene.
Just how mediocre do you see Greene?If you had the depth at WR and needed RB depth would you trade a Hester/Maclin/Collie for him?I think he has decent value in dynasty over the next few years with Leon out and Jones getting older.Do you see him in the top-20 next year or is he a tier or two below that?
 
This year's class wasn't particularly deep (I really only like Moreno, Harvin, Nicks, and Crabtree of the first rounders going forward), it's just that value always falls- typically at WR while everyone is busy gobbling up mediocre RBs like Shonn Greene.
Just how mediocre do you see Greene?If you had the depth at WR and needed RB depth would you trade a Hester/Maclin/Collie for him?I think he has decent value in dynasty over the next few years with Leon out and Jones getting older.Do you see him in the top-20 next year or is he a tier or two below that?
Hester- hell no. Maclin- getting close, but still probably not. Collie- most definitely.What's troublesome to me is that within days of Leon getting injured, we were hearing rumblings that the Jets weren't going to cut Thomas Jones, now. They were going to eat his exorbitant salary and keep him on the team. That's the sort of thinking you'd expect from a team that didn't think it was set at RB. A team that *DID* think it was set at RB would still cut Jones anyway and just bring in a Correll Buckhalter type to provide quality depth. I didn't think Shonn was the type of guy who would be able to hold off challengers for his job for years to come when I was doing my rookie draft, and I'm probably even surer in that opinion right now.
 
Greene reminds me of Jesse Chatman for some reason. Guy that can blow up for a game or two. Then blow up 40 pounds in an offseason.

I think Greene is in that Lendale White / LeRon McClain type group. He could be a vulture, have a good year, but you'll never get much in return for him. I only play PPR so he was on my avoid list to begin with (with stone hands & Jones/Leon/another scat back there for the future).

 
This year's class wasn't particularly deep (I really only like Moreno, Harvin, Nicks, and Crabtree of the first rounders going forward), it's just that value always falls- typically at WR while everyone is busy gobbling up mediocre RBs like Shonn Greene.
Just how mediocre do you see Greene?If you had the depth at WR and needed RB depth would you trade a Hester/Maclin/Collie for him?I think he has decent value in dynasty over the next few years with Leon out and Jones getting older.Do you see him in the top-20 next year or is he a tier or two below that?
Hester- hell no. Maclin- getting close, but still probably not. Collie- most definitely.What's troublesome to me is that within days of Leon getting injured, we were hearing rumblings that the Jets weren't going to cut Thomas Jones, now. They were going to eat his exorbitant salary and keep him on the team. That's the sort of thinking you'd expect from a team that didn't think it was set at RB. A team that *DID* think it was set at RB would still cut Jones anyway and just bring in a Correll Buckhalter type to provide quality depth. I didn't think Shonn was the type of guy who would be able to hold off challengers for his job for years to come when I was doing my rookie draft, and I'm probably even surer in that opinion right now.
I wouldn't even consider moving Hester or Maclin for Greene. I'd move Collie for Greene, and then turn around and trade Greene while he still has value. I don't like Green's size. He's been listed between 218 to 226 lbs since the the combine. That's not very big for a RB with limited speed and lateral agility.
 
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Interesting that Kolby Smith barely makes your list. Do you like Charles that much better than him? Or was that due to injury/lack of opportunity when that list was posted?
Kolby Smith is just a bad running back. It's that simple.And, yes, I like Charles a lot more than him. But that's more a product of the fact that I like just about all running backs better than him.
 
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This year's class wasn't particularly deep (I really only like Moreno, Harvin, Nicks, and Crabtree of the first rounders going forward), it's just that value always falls- typically at WR while everyone is busy gobbling up mediocre RBs like Shonn Greene.
Just how mediocre do you see Greene?If you had the depth at WR and needed RB depth would you trade a Hester/Maclin/Collie for him?I think he has decent value in dynasty over the next few years with Leon out and Jones getting older.Do you see him in the top-20 next year or is he a tier or two below that?
Hester- hell no. Maclin- getting close, but still probably not. Collie- most definitely.What's troublesome to me is that within days of Leon getting injured, we were hearing rumblings that the Jets weren't going to cut Thomas Jones, now. They were going to eat his exorbitant salary and keep him on the team. That's the sort of thinking you'd expect from a team that didn't think it was set at RB. A team that *DID* think it was set at RB would still cut Jones anyway and just bring in a Correll Buckhalter type to provide quality depth. I didn't think Shonn was the type of guy who would be able to hold off challengers for his job for years to come when I was doing my rookie draft, and I'm probably even surer in that opinion right now.
Washington breaks his leg - badly - and the Jets consider bringing back Jones. Why does that reaction by the Jets damn Greene in your eyes? Isnt it more likely that it reflects uncertainty about Washington's ability to recover and be productive in 2010?Jones being on the Jets next season hurts Greene's value as they both fill a similar role, but I dont think anyone expected that the Jets would make Greene their full time RB. He's going to be paired with someone, and if the Jets have doubts about Washington in 2010, why wouldnt they bring back Jones?
 
This year's class wasn't particularly deep (I really only like Moreno, Harvin, Nicks, and Crabtree of the first rounders going forward), it's just that value always falls- typically at WR while everyone is busy gobbling up mediocre RBs like Shonn Greene.
Just how mediocre do you see Greene?If you had the depth at WR and needed RB depth would you trade a Hester/Maclin/Collie for him?I think he has decent value in dynasty over the next few years with Leon out and Jones getting older.Do you see him in the top-20 next year or is he a tier or two below that?
Hester- hell no. Maclin- getting close, but still probably not. Collie- most definitely.What's troublesome to me is that within days of Leon getting injured, we were hearing rumblings that the Jets weren't going to cut Thomas Jones, now. They were going to eat his exorbitant salary and keep him on the team. That's the sort of thinking you'd expect from a team that didn't think it was set at RB. A team that *DID* think it was set at RB would still cut Jones anyway and just bring in a Correll Buckhalter type to provide quality depth. I didn't think Shonn was the type of guy who would be able to hold off challengers for his job for years to come when I was doing my rookie draft, and I'm probably even surer in that opinion right now.
I wouldn't even consider moving Hester or Maclin for Greene. I'd move Collie for Greene, and then turn around and trade Greene while he still has value. I don't like Green's size. He's been listed between 218 to 226 lbs since the the combine. That's not very big for a RB with limited speed and lateral agility.
Thanks for all the feedback on Greene!I did not know he didn't catch the ball and that rules him out for me.I cancelled that trade offer and am pursuing Boldin giving up Hester + a TE.I think Boldin's ankle heals he'll have decent long-term dynasty value.
 

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