Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I'd say that's fair, but maybe for all RB production, meaning the Eagles may be more of a committee at the position than they were when Westy was in his prime - and Bukhalter was only a "spell" back.footballguy#1 said:
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Dynasty Rankings (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter Fear & Loathing
- Start date
BeTheMatch
Footballguy
jdoggydogg
Footballguy
I really need help at TE. My salary cap dynasty team is excellent. But Marcedes Lewis and Jermichael Finley are not helping me right now. There's an owner in my league that has posted he's interested in a trade. He has both Antonio Gates and Brent Celek. I am inclined to offer him DeSean Jackson. Before you laugh, I have Vincent Jackson, Larry Fitzgerald, and Nate Burleson. And furthermore, this is a salary cap league. So the odds of my being able to keep all those WRs for next year are very low.
Sorry to post this question, but the posters in this thread are always full of good knowledge.
Sorry to post this question, but the posters in this thread are always full of good knowledge.
jdoggydogg
Footballguy
This guy isn't dumb. He knows Burleson is an average talent. I think starting with Burleson might make sense. But if this guy has any brains at all he'll counter with Jackson.
Fear & Loathing
Footballguy
This. Burleson won't bring back nearly as much, but you may be able to get a patch at TE until Finley gets healthy. Maybe Burleson for Zach Miller?I don't think you trade DeSean Jackson to paper over another position. You keep him and find some other asset to trade away.
jdoggydogg
Footballguy
Everything you are saying makes sense. Except that the salary cap makes this more difficult. I have these excellent WRs, plus Gore, Romo, and Peterson. So either way, I am going to lose some key players for cap reasons.I sent a Burleson for Celek offer. He may scoff, but it's worth a shot since his WRs are bad.
belljr
Footballguy
Bump - anyone know the thread I'm after?
thriftyrocker
Footballguy
Any opinions on Greg Jennings? Why is he so mediocre this year? Does he still belong in the top 10 of WRs?
cstu
Footballguy
Neither was Rudi Johnson. The fact is that the Jets have a good run blocking OL and any starting RB in that offense is capable of top 10 numbers. He'll never be an elite back but he runs hard and can pick up the tough yards, especially those at the goal line.
Ksquared
Footballguy
Look back one page for some good info.BTW, I have lurked on this thread for almost since it was created. F&L, EBF, and SSOG, great job and thanks for taking the time to explain your thoughts.
the_sig
Footballguy
Current thoughts on Donald Driver?
F&L has him at WR37 near the middle of tier 5. He will be 35 in about 3 months and has some talent (Jennings/JJones/JNelson & JFinley) all of whose play at some point may demand more targets.
If one was looking to add Driver (win now/playoff contender type), are you paying solely for stats the next 7 weeks or does he have any 'exit value' priced in at WR37?
F&L has him at WR37 near the middle of tier 5. He will be 35 in about 3 months and has some talent (Jennings/JJones/JNelson & JFinley) all of whose play at some point may demand more targets.
If one was looking to add Driver (win now/playoff contender type), are you paying solely for stats the next 7 weeks or does he have any 'exit value' priced in at WR37?
GreatLakesMike
Footballguy
PPR leagues:I traded Josh Morgan for Driver a few weeks ago in one league. I'm trying to move Driver in another league, and can't seem to find anyone willing to give up a decent prospect for him. Driver is 34, but he still looks good. If he's not in Green Bay next year, I suspect he'll sign with someone else. I'm not giving him away.
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thriftyrocker
Footballguy
I wouldn't pay anything for Driver. GB is not paying him 7.2 mil next year. You can forget about that. I can't see him going to another team next year and doing anything substantial. Next year he will be Tory Holt, at best. Unless he signs for less money to stay in GB.
GreatLakesMike
Footballguy
I think Josh Morgan was a small price to pay for a little help towards a championship run. Driver is not Torry Holt IMO. Everyone could see Holt was never the same after his knee injury. I agree with you that Green Bay is not going to pay Driver the full amount of his contract, but that's not to say that he won't take a paycut to stay in Green Bay. I don't expect Driver to put up big numbers again next year, but if he plays, he'll at provide depth for another year. If he stays in Green Bay, all the better, if not, he signs with someone else or retires... no biggy. I think he has another year left in him and think the Torry Holt comparison is a poor one.
the_sig
Footballguy
I wasn't sure what his contract staus was, can't check that here at work. If the 7.2 mil figure is correct, I think I agree with your assesment he may be gone. I'd question his value on another team next year, and interestingly the first situation that popped into my head was Holt's also. that may not be fair given Holt's knee issues, but I think this line of thinking answers my 'exit value' question with it being nearly zero.
Not sure what was already posted, but I think the lack of solid line play has not allowed rodgers the time to hit Jennings deep. How many long passes above 20,30, 40 yards did jennings hit on last year??
thriftyrocker
Footballguy
That's pretty much all that was said. I guess the question is if they draft a tackle and send Driver packing, is he still top 10 going into 2010? If Driver is gone, someone on the Packers has to be, regardless of the oline. It could be James Jones instead. But the safe money is still on Jennings, right?
OnThInIcE911
Footballguy
Still looking for some help with this question.
thriftyrocker
Footballguy
Given the situation you might actually have a chance to buy. I still think starting offer has to be Colston plus Stewart or Wells or the earliest 1st. I think any price less than MJD + Colston is fair. I'd be willing to pay Colston + 2 1sts or Colston + Wells + 1st but wouldn't start there.
SSOG
Moderator
The Jets have a very good offensive line, but I'm not ready to give all Jets RBs a dynasty bump for schematic superiority yet. Woody and Faneca are both 32, and the Jets haven't reached the same level of dominance as the Broncos, Vikings, or Giants.
I've got a bit of a unique perspective on Driver because I've both traded for him *AND* traded him away so far this season. Prior to the season, my WR corps was paper-thin (Fitzgerald, Lee Evans, an unproven Devin Hester, and literally no one behind them. Literally), so I wound up picking up a boatload of young WR prospects (Garcon, Collie, Austin, Sims-Walker, Stroughter, Wallace, Caldwell, Schilens, Murphy), and I then traded two of those prospects for Driver (Austin Collie and... Miles Austin. Oh well, easy come, easy go). A bit later in the year, my WR corps became a huge strength (I traded for VJax, MSW and Hester both stepped up big-time), so Driver became entirely superfluous- he was my WR5 and I was past my bye weeks. He wasn't going to see my starting lineup anytime in the next year and a half, so he was doing me no good. As a result, I found the contending teams with the weakest WR corps (there were three that were starting absolute dreck at their WR3 position) and sent them all a message that the first person willing to give me a 2nd rounder in next year's draft could have Donald Driver.I'd say Driver's at least top 20 the rest of the way this year, and he holds some minor residual value for the future. I'd expect him to at least be fantasy relevant next year (WR3/WR4 type). Still, his value is almost entirely a function of how he's going to score the rest of the way. In the two trades Driver has been involved in so far this year, his cost in the first trade was a pair of WR prospects who were street free agents the week before, and his cost in the second was a late 2nd rounder. Both seem pretty fair prices.
GreatLakesMike
Footballguy
I didn't trade Morgan for Driver thinking about next year. If your team is a contender, then moving a mid-level prospect for a highly productive veteran shouldn't be an issue IMO. Sometimes it's ok to trade away youth for the present.
GreatLakesMike
Footballguy
I'm curious to hear others thoughts on Freeman after his first start. I wasn't able to watch the game.
God yeah, IMO. The season, and its not over yet, is a blip for jennings. I have him on two dynasties, and have no plans to sell, in fact, nows a great time to acquire him. Rodgers is on pace to be sacked 74 times IIRC......point being, he may not finish top 15, but hes legit, certainly better than Jordy and Jones when driver moes on. I like GB wr situation. Both thos guys can ascend, and keep him from getting doubleteamed
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GreatLakesMike
Footballguy
BTW SSOG, I took a 2nd look at Nicks today, and I stand corrected; he has shown something, just not in the games I've watched. 
I'm not sure why, but I thought he had the 1 big game, and then a few ok games. He actually has slightly better stats than Maclin, although not by much. Maybe Maclin is a great buy low guy? I think he's a much better route runner than advertised, and he has good hands from what I've seen.
I'm not sure why, but I thought he had the 1 big game, and then a few ok games. He actually has slightly better stats than Maclin, although not by much. Maybe Maclin is a great buy low guy? I think he's a much better route runner than advertised, and he has good hands from what I've seen.
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OnThInIcE911
Footballguy
Got the deal finished todayI gave up
Colston, Marques NOS WR;
Year 2010 Round 1 Draft Pick(early middle);
Year 2010 Round 2 Draft Pick(middle);
Year 2010 Round 5 Draft Pick(early)
He gave up
Johnson, Calvin DET WR;
Year 2010 Round 1 Draft Pick(late)
Basically I got Calvin for Colston and lost 1st round rookie value, my second rounder, and my 5th.
I think I got the good end of the trade.
Boone22
Footballguy
Last week I traded Driver, Lendale White, Kevin Smith, and a mid-to-late 2010 1st round rookie pick for Shonn Greene, Leon Washington and MSW.
thriftyrocker
Footballguy
F&L has Ronnie in tier 2 and PT in tier 3. With Ronnie we are probably just passing over to the right side of the bell curve (i.e., the wrong side). He should still be a low #1 next year. But after that the writing will be on the wall. If you're out of it, probably Monday morning (hoping he runs all over Tampa) will be the perfect time to sell him.PT is much younger in dog years, but NO is a weird situation. They may never feature a RB again. They may be the new Denver and bring in random guys off the street and turn them into the next starters. It is his contract year, so it's possible he could Mike Anderson somewhere and not have the golden opportunity he has now. Why would NO pay PT anything if Mike Bell looks just as good (well, give me "almost as good" at least)?
Sudoku_in_the_Bathtub
Footballguy
Jamal Charles -- a hold or sell at this point? [ppr league]
I don't think he's a feature back, but he's got an opportunity here. If you're dealing at this moment, what type rookie pick would you accept for him? His value seems like it could change at an instant [either way].
I don't think he's a feature back, but he's got an opportunity here. If you're dealing at this moment, what type rookie pick would you accept for him? His value seems like it could change at an instant [either way].
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the_sig
Footballguy
I tried selling today actually. Sent out offers to three different teams and found no real interest. 14 team MOX dynasty league, pretty much all FBG's as owners.I think most feel the way you do, he may not be a featured back, thus he needs to show something before astute owners are willing to gamble. You are right, he has opportunity, but sadly that isn't saying much with the KC O Line. I'd probably take ANY first for him, but those offers probably aren't coming. Would I take a second? Probably not, I'd rather just see what he can do at that point.
Kitrick Taylor
Footballguy
Watched the whole game....unfortunately. Freeman has some Ben Roethlisberger to him. The rush got there several times during the game, but guys just fell off of him. He seems to have an uncanny feel in the pocket for a rookie. I have no idea how he will fare with accuracy and reading defenses (the mental part of it) as his career unfolds, but the guy has some real tools to work with.
bringerofchill
Footballguy
I recently just completed a trade in my league, I got Calvin Johnson and Addai and traded away Ray Rice. The league is a PPR league, and I was really high on Rice in the coming years, but I already have CJ3 and MJD as my starting RB. And my WRs have been a soft spot on my team for a few years.
Kitrick Taylor
Footballguy
Ronnie has a relatively light workload for his age. He's split a lot of carries throughout his collegiate and pro careers. He's also very talented. Conversely, he's also missed a fair amount of time with injuries. My guess right now is he is productive beyond the normal RB years (30). I think he'll remain relatively productive into his 30's ala Fred Taylor and Ricky Williams. PT is a restricted FA in 2010. He won't be leaving NO. Beyond 2010, who knows? Thomas is a quality back on a hugely dynamic offense. Will they keep him beyond 2010? No way to really know.
PranksterJD
Footballguy
FWIW, I had both and was actively looking to move a RB, and chose to move Pierre. For me, Thomas fits into that category with guys like Ryan Grant, Slaton, Jacobs, and Kevin Smith where I'd always be looking over my shoulder for the next guy who's going to come along and turn my low-end RB1 into a high-end RB3.Ronnie's not exactly immune to that problem, and I worry that too much of his value comes from outside the traditional RB space, but in the end I rolled the dice with the guy who just seems to have more raw talent.
Fear & Loathing
Footballguy
I'd argue that Ronnie would have more value if they'd quit trying to get so cute with their scheming and playcalling. His first half of 2007 was phenomenal, and that owed nothing to the Wildcat.Re: Pierre Thomas. I like him a lot. I own him in the FB Guys Dynasty Thread League, and I can't see trading him. He's that rare back with off-the-charts upside in a dynamic offense but also heart-burn inducing job security issues. It's just a matter of risk tolerance. I guess I feel lucky enough to roll the dice that he'll remain the feature back in New Orleans for the next few years. He's been far and away the most effective back there.
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Fear & Loathing
Footballguy
In Dynasty leagues, I think he's a sell. IMO, he's on the Jerious Norwood/Leon Washington career path. Rookie picks are over-rated. If I wanted to move him, I'd package him with someone else for an upgrade.
SSOG
Moderator
Rookie picks *ARE* overrated, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't acquire them. If nothing else, they're a tradeable commodity. I don't know about other leagues, but in my league rookie picks are the #1 currency. Get an upgrade if you can, or trade him for another prospect you like more... but if all else fails, there's nothing wrong with stockpiling rookie picks with the intention of selling them again come draft time.Edit: I love acquiring 2nd rounders on the cheap, because if the owner's ever on the fence about a trade offer, saying "how about I throw in a 2nd rounder?" usually pushes them over.
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GreatLakesMike
Footballguy
Yeah, I think it depends on your league. I'm in one league where rookie picks aren't worth very much, especially picks outside the top 5, so stockpiling 2nd round picks could get you into a bit of trouble.
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Anthony Borbely
Footballguy
I completely agree that rookie picks are overrated, but they have a ton of trade value during the draft when the hype machine is rolling. That is the best time to sell rookie picks IMO.
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
Yeah, none of that was owed to the Wildcat, but must of it was owed to Cam Cameron, who is now long gone and turning Ray Rice into a fantasy monster instead.
Fear & Loathing
Footballguy
Most of it was owed to Ronnie Brown, who ran and caught like a madman for seven games. That said, I acknowledge that Cam Cameron is a godsend for fantasy backs.
Just Win Baby
Footballguy
I agree that acquiring picks is a good strategy. I'm partners with Couch Potato in MOX VI, and he/we took over an abandoned team that was in poor shape back in 2007. We traded a lot the first two years and acquired a lot of picks, along with various players, the best of whom was Andre Johnson.In 2008, the extra picks were a mixed bag, as we ended up drafting Torain (1.9), Ryan (1.13), Kelly (2.3), and Hightower (2.6), and trading away some of the other extra picks. If Torain didn't get hurt last year, this might look a lot better. We made the playoffs, though, after missing in 2007.In 2009, it seems to have worked out quite well so far, though it's early: Moreno (1.1), Harvin (1.8), Stafford (1.9), and Scott (2.2), and again we had other picks that we traded away.In MOX, there are 14 teams and up to 4 RBs can start each week, and it is not PPR. We were having a really tough time improving the poor RB situation we inherited because we were not picking early enough in the draft, so we made the difficult decision last offseason to trade Andre Johnson, which is why we got the 1.1 and Moreno. We also traded Ryan in a package for Rodgers and, feeling we were turning the corner, some future picks for Jacobs.We'll see how it turns out, but we are arguably the top team in the league now (#2 in points, #1 in all play record). And one of the keys to the turnaround was aggressively stockpiling draft picks, which gave us a lot of options for turning over the roster.By the way, let me just throw in an unrelated plug for myfantasyleague.com. I'm not sure how many other sites preserve history of message board posts, transactions, etc. for past years, but it's really great to be able to look back at that stuff from a couple years ago. 
the turnip
Footballguy
Anyone willing to throw out an opinion or two? I'm looking for a swing for the fences player. I'm in a 20 man roster 16 team dynasty league and would like to stash someone away who has at least some chance of making a difference in the next year or two.
With rosters that deep and 16 teams the choices are pretty slim. Standard NON ppr scoring. 6 points for a TD and 1 point per 10 yards gained. Here's my current options;
Sam Aiken
Danny Amendola
Jason Avant
Davone Bess
Jarret Dillard
BenJarvus Green-Ellis
Dewayne Jarret
Bryant Johnson
Legedu Naanee
Jordy Nelson
Malcom Kelly
Fred Taylor
Obviously there are no sure things on the list but I find Aiken intriguing due to the system he's in and the age of Welker & Moss. I'd love to hear some thoughts.
Many thanks!
With rosters that deep and 16 teams the choices are pretty slim. Standard NON ppr scoring. 6 points for a TD and 1 point per 10 yards gained. Here's my current options;
Sam Aiken
Danny Amendola
Jason Avant
Davone Bess
Jarret Dillard
BenJarvus Green-Ellis
Dewayne Jarret
Bryant Johnson
Legedu Naanee
Jordy Nelson
Malcom Kelly
Fred Taylor
Obviously there are no sure things on the list but I find Aiken intriguing due to the system he's in and the age of Welker & Moss. I'd love to hear some thoughts.
Many thanks!
Frank Costanza's Lawyer
Footballguy
Does anyone have any new thoughts on Royal after his solid performance against Pittsburgh?
My WR corps in one league is pretty thin so Ive been trying to target some young, undervalued receivers. A month or so ago, everyone seemed to be in agreement that he's a good buy low candidate that should bounce back at some point. Does anyone feel differently?
My WR corps in one league is pretty thin so Ive been trying to target some young, undervalued receivers. A month or so ago, everyone seemed to be in agreement that he's a good buy low candidate that should bounce back at some point. Does anyone feel differently?
Fear & Loathing
Footballguy
Definitely agree on myfantasyleague.com. My favorite league manager for Dynasty as well as re-draft. I love the history they preserve in Dynasty.Re: Draft picks. I don't know that you consciously made a distinction here, but your post brings up a very important dichotomy. You were taking over an abandoned team; that's why draft picks were so important to you. It's almost a mandated strategy for rebuilding a deserted roster. On the flip side, though, say you have a balanced, young nucleus and you're a contender on a yearly basis. I'd rather use the draft picks as trade chips to acquire a good young player who can help me now as well as the future.I agree that acquiring picks is a good strategy. I'm partners with Couch Potato in MOX VI, and he/we took over an abandoned team that was in poor shape back in 2007. We traded a lot the first two years and acquired a lot of picks, along with various players, the best of whom was Andre Johnson.In 2008, the extra picks were a mixed bag, as we ended up drafting Torain (1.9), Ryan (1.13), Kelly (2.3), and Hightower (2.6), and trading away some of the other extra picks. If Torain didn't get hurt last year, this might look a lot better. We made the playoffs, though, after missing in 2007.In 2009, it seems to have worked out quite well so far, though it's early: Moreno (1.1), Harvin (1.8), Stafford (1.9), and Scott (2.2), and again we had other picks that we traded away.In MOX, there are 14 teams and up to 4 RBs can start each week, and it is not PPR. We were having a really tough time improving the poor RB situation we inherited because we were not picking early enough in the draft, so we made the difficult decision last offseason to trade Andre Johnson, which is why we got the 1.1 and Moreno. We also traded Ryan in a package for Rodgers and, feeling we were turning the corner, some future picks for Jacobs.We'll see how it turns out, but we are arguably the top team in the league now (#2 in points, #1 in all play record). And one of the keys to the turnaround was aggressively stockpiling draft picks, which gave us a lot of options for turning over the roster.By the way, let me just throw in an unrelated plug for myfantasyleague.com. I'm not sure how many other sites preserve history of message board posts, transactions, etc. for past years, but it's really great to be able to look back at that stuff from a couple years ago.
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