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My pretty short quick list of most electric ever.....not necessarily in orderBarry SandersGale SayersBo JacksonChris JohnsonDeSean JacksonEric Metcalf

No Steve Slaton or Terrelle Pryor?
Please don't attempt to disparage my posts with silliness. My list stands on its own, so stick to what was written. Whenever you start to believe that you can project better than I, then step up to any number of challenges that are available to you to show.......Or pretty much stick to what you are good at, crunching numbers of what already has transpired to come to your conclusions....let the forecasters, evaluators, and historical analyzers stick to what we do best..... :)
While I won't comment on SSOG's ability to scout (since he himself has admitted several times its not his best strength or something he has any real desire to do), I will go ahead and suggest that it is a bit silly to include yourself in any list of successful "forecasters, evaluators, and historical analyzers." Your track record on this very board over the last few years is poor, to say the least. That doesn't mean you haven't gotten some right, but rather that your misses have been so bad and you have been so vocal that it makes you look very foolish. You may be a legend in your own mind, but after having several very outrageous and bold predictions (which you were very preachy about and argued about at some length, mind you), and then having those predictions more than blow up in your face and make you look ridiculous, I'm not sure anyone would consider you among the more reliable talent evaluators. If we are talking talent evaluators on this board, give me EBF and his sound analysis that generally doesn't involve outrageous statements and predictions simply to draw attention to himself every time.Anyway, I am pretty certain that SSOG's comment was simply a light hearted jab at 2 of your more outrageous and ridiculous statements that appear to be obvious and colossal misfires. There's no need to get upset and attempt to turn it into anything close to personal. If you were less overbearing, outlandish, and generally loud mouthed about most of your predictions, you wouldn't be so open to (and possibly deserving of?) such light hearted jabs.
I don't have time to add another detractor to my list to argue what my track record is (stellar!). What I do know is that I'm well ahead of the curve in evaluating (and acquiring) the premium talent in my fantasy endeavors. Before the masses, including many of you all who claim that you were there from the beginning, I've owned (drafted, waivers, and/or traded for) the likes of Aaron Rodgers, Jamaal Charles, Meachem, Sidney Rice, Welker, V-Jax, D-Jax, DeA, etc., etc. well before you even thought about 'em. I own Slaton in exactly 3 of 11 dynasty leagues, whooooopeeeee! And my boy Reggie Bush has helped me win quite a bit of $$$$ the past couple of seasons.....Like I stated to SSOG, I have a new league starting up for 2010, and I'm holding several spots open with an invite for any of you here in this thread who want to step up to the challenge. You'll probably want to be pretty well-versed in the current crop of college players as well as the incoming rooks, young talent already in the league, amidst all of the obvious guys that everyone knows about.Really, you're welcome to step in........the water's not too deep..... :shark: And FYI, we draft before the NFL draft..... ;)

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My pretty short quick list of most electric ever.....not necessarily in orderBarry SandersGale SayersBo JacksonChris JohnsonDeSean JacksonEric Metcalf

No Steve Slaton or Terrelle Pryor?
Please don't attempt to disparage my posts with silliness. My list stands on its own, so stick to what was written. Whenever you start to believe that you can project better than I, then step up to any number of challenges that are available to you to show.......Or pretty much stick to what you are good at, crunching numbers of what already has transpired to come to your conclusions....let the forecasters, evaluators, and historical analyzers stick to what we do best..... :thumbup:
While I won't comment on SSOG's ability to scout (since he himself has admitted several times its not his best strength or something he has any real desire to do), I will go ahead and suggest that it is a bit silly to include yourself in any list of successful "forecasters, evaluators, and historical analyzers." Your track record on this very board over the last few years is poor, to say the least. That doesn't mean you haven't gotten some right, but rather that your misses have been so bad and you have been so vocal that it makes you look very foolish. You may be a legend in your own mind, but after having several very outrageous and bold predictions (which you were very preachy about and argued about at some length, mind you), and then having those predictions more than blow up in your face and make you look ridiculous, I'm not sure anyone would consider you among the more reliable talent evaluators. If we are talking talent evaluators on this board, give me EBF and his sound analysis that generally doesn't involve outrageous statements and predictions simply to draw attention to himself every time.Anyway, I am pretty certain that SSOG's comment was simply a light hearted jab at 2 of your more outrageous and ridiculous statements that appear to be obvious and colossal misfires. There's no need to get upset and attempt to turn it into anything close to personal. If you were less overbearing, outlandish, and generally loud mouthed about most of your predictions, you wouldn't be so open to (and possibly deserving of?) such light hearted jabs.
Get upset over anything in here? That's downright funny. A light-hearted jab is nothing more than what I push back, just a little harder, maybe, but it's never personal on my end, either. I'm just pointing out what was stated by me in response to the subject. If you, SSOG, or whoever, wants to interject other unrelated commentary (by me) into another topic to try to dilute my comment, then that's when I"ll comment as I did. It's all pretty simple to me in how I do what I do, and I don't really care who you have a preference for or not, all I know is when my analysis is done, I'll be well ahead of the masses/consensus thought and positioned for success in my fantasy endeavors. Edited by kremenull

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kremenull you talk like you're the world's best FF guru, I happened to know that you quit a dynasty league after one year and your team was HORRIBLE. :rolleyes:

Edited by PantherPower

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If you, SSOG, or whoever, wants to interject other unrelated commentary (by me) into another topic to try to dilute my comment, then that's when I"ll comment as I did.

Personally, I don't see how pointing out your strong tendencies towards overreaction and exaggeration (witness: Steve Slaton is more talented than Terrell Davis, Terrelle Pryor is going to revolutionize the QB position) was "unrelated commentary". You said that Desean Jackson was one of the six most electric players in the history of the NFL. In related news, you have a history of comical overreaction to extremely small sample sizes.

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I think Greg Jennings is getting dangerously close to being undervalued. Some key stats to remember about Jennings:4th in PPG in 20076th in PPG in 2008Two things coincided this year to drop Jennings' numbers. The Packer offensive line was atrocious throughout the first half of the year. Jennings also had a inordinate number of near misses on Touchdown plays. There are four that I can think of right now that could have very easily gone for TDs. Td's can be fluky, and Jennings had a bit of bad luck in that regard this year. Since the Packer line has solidified over the last 6 weeks, Jennings is 5th in the league in receiving yards. I think going into next season Jennings is a fantastic buy low if you can get him for a WR2 price. Aaron Rodgers has continued to improve his game throughout the season. He's everything you want your WR to have in a QB. The emergence of Jermicheal Finley is going to help Jennings as well. Defenses will absolutely be sending more coverage his way in 2010 relieving Jennings of some of those double teams. I fully expect Jennings to get back to a solid WR1 next year and post something around 1200/9.

I think he's undervalued too, but I think Finley's emergence may limit his ability to return to the 2007/2008 numbers. Finley will get lots of red zone looks. Maybe Jennings gets some of Driver's targets (Driver started to slow at the end of the season), but not sure it's enough. Still, recency bias should lead to Jennings being undervalued.

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I think Greg Jennings is getting dangerously close to being undervalued. Some key stats to remember about Jennings:4th in PPG in 20076th in PPG in 2008Two things coincided this year to drop Jennings' numbers. The Packer offensive line was atrocious throughout the first half of the year. Jennings also had a inordinate number of near misses on Touchdown plays. There are four that I can think of right now that could have very easily gone for TDs. Td's can be fluky, and Jennings had a bit of bad luck in that regard this year. Since the Packer line has solidified over the last 6 weeks, Jennings is 5th in the league in receiving yards. I think going into next season Jennings is a fantastic buy low if you can get him for a WR2 price. Aaron Rodgers has continued to improve his game throughout the season. He's everything you want your WR to have in a QB. The emergence of Jermicheal Finley is going to help Jennings as well. Defenses will absolutely be sending more coverage his way in 2010 relieving Jennings of some of those double teams. I fully expect Jennings to get back to a solid WR1 next year and post something around 1200/9.

I've been notoriously cool on Jennings for a while. I just don't think he's quite as talented as the guys ahead of him.A couple of questions for you. Of the 13 guys ahead of Jennings, who would you take Jennings over? Of those guys, how many do you think Jennings is more talented than, and how many would you prefer Jennings based on age or situation instead of talent?
This wasn't directed at me, but i agree that Jennings presents good value if he falls to the late 2nd round/early 3rd of initial dynasties... To answer your question i'd put Jennings > S.Smith/Wayne/Moss and he would be on par with Austin and S.Rice (would have to think long and hard on who i'd prefer) Edited by broncofan13000

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Will probably sit down to do my dynasty rankings in a few weeks. One of the top questions will be:

Jamal Charles: Is he Steve Slaton or Chris Johnson? I thought he was too small coming into this season, but he's opened my eyes and I need to reevaluate.

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kremenull you talk like you're the world's best FF guru, I happened to know that you quit a dynasty league after one year and your team was HORRIBLE. :lmao:

No, I talk as if I know what I am doing, which would be correct. And yeah, I happened to quit the league that you commish 'cause you changed rules on the fly and I would be willing to bet that the same team I owned competed the next year.....if it didn't, I believe that I would have managed to compete with that same roster and my eventual manuevers......Do you want to see a list of leagues that I've been in for a number of years where my first season didn't go so great? That'd be like 6-7 (of 11) of my current leagues......

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If you, SSOG, or whoever, wants to interject other unrelated commentary (by me) into another topic to try to dilute my comment, then that's when I"ll comment as I did.

Personally, I don't see how pointing out your strong tendencies towards overreaction and exaggeration (witness: Steve Slaton is more talented than Terrell Davis, Terrelle Pryor is going to revolutionize the QB position) was "unrelated commentary". You said that Desean Jackson was one of the six most electric players in the history of the NFL. In related news, you have a history of comical overreaction to extremely small sample sizes.
The Ignore function is your friend.

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If you, SSOG, or whoever, wants to interject other unrelated commentary (by me) into another topic to try to dilute my comment, then that's when I"ll comment as I did.

Personally, I don't see how pointing out your strong tendencies towards overreaction and exaggeration (witness: Steve Slaton is more talented than Terrell Davis, Terrelle Pryor is going to revolutionize the QB position) was "unrelated commentary". You said that Desean Jackson was one of the six most electric players in the history of the NFL. In related news, you have a history of comical overreaction to extremely small sample sizes.
Yep! And my overreaction to small sample sizes netted me DeSean + 2010 #1 Overall for Steve Smiff (your boy) back in the preseason of 2009.....Really SSOG, I'm so far ahead of you in this game I don't think you can see me with binoculars .....I set markets, you react to the set markets.......Since you want to "witness" something......Witness: Stewart #3 ranking (by me the past 2 years, the market and you will soon be catching up), Beanie (please stay in the majority of disbelievers), Meachem (please hold onto your Devery deification), Felix (don't ever buy him, I beg you, please, as you might jinx me if you start to like him), and Charles/Harvin/SidRice/Finley/A-Rodge, thanks A-Rodge for leading me to back-2-back Super Bowl appearances in 2 separate leagues (winning 3 out of the 4 titles).......and I'll lastly add Schilens, just to throw in another future riser who I am certain to have owned ahead of 99.8% of the fantasy world (first acquired on Oct 16, 2008, now owned in 9 of 11 leagues)......For this 2010 rookie draft, I'll graciously be deferring any future ranking updates to all the other evaluators in The Shark Pool as I have a few high selections in a couple of leagues as well as my eye on several players I want to tab via trade......Keep up the good work gents, what more must I say?........ :confused::boxing:

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2.05 17. 'NTER THA DRAGGIN' Slaton, Steve HOU RB Mon Mar 30 2:51:40 p.m. CT 2009 - Just when u thought it was safe to go in the water....Here comes the "Shark" move.....when everybody goes WR crazy, that's when you cut against the grain on a dime like my boy SS......SuperStar Stevie "Wonder" Baaaaaaaaaby!!!!!....

Best thing about being in a league with Kremenull are the tidbits he posts with his picks...sorry buddy had to :blackdot:of course one pick before this I took Eddie Royal...so I can't bash you for the pick.

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I think Greg Jennings is getting dangerously close to being undervalued. Some key stats to remember about Jennings:4th in PPG in 20076th in PPG in 2008Two things coincided this year to drop Jennings' numbers. The Packer offensive line was atrocious throughout the first half of the year. Jennings also had a inordinate number of near misses on Touchdown plays. There are four that I can think of right now that could have very easily gone for TDs. Td's can be fluky, and Jennings had a bit of bad luck in that regard this year. Since the Packer line has solidified over the last 6 weeks, Jennings is 5th in the league in receiving yards. I think going into next season Jennings is a fantastic buy low if you can get him for a WR2 price. Aaron Rodgers has continued to improve his game throughout the season. He's everything you want your WR to have in a QB. The emergence of Jermicheal Finley is going to help Jennings as well. Defenses will absolutely be sending more coverage his way in 2010 relieving Jennings of some of those double teams. I fully expect Jennings to get back to a solid WR1 next year and post something around 1200/9.

I've been notoriously cool on Jennings for a while. I just don't think he's quite as talented as the guys ahead of him.A couple of questions for you. Of the 13 guys ahead of Jennings, who would you take Jennings over? Of those guys, how many do you think Jennings is more talented than, and how many would you prefer Jennings based on age or situation instead of talent?
Its my opinion that there are 5 elite talents at WR in the league. Larry FitzgeraldAndre JohnsonCalvin JohnsonRandy MossSteve SmithAll other factors being equal, I think those would be the top 5 guys in dynasty. But age and situation do come into play. The next group of guys I would classify as very good talents. They would be (in no particular order)VJax, R. Wayne, DJax, Roddy White, Miles Austin, Colston, Welker, Jennings, Rice, Marshall, Ochocinco, Boldin.I think they each have their own skill set, and some may be a little bit more naturally talented than others, but they are so close that situation and age are a better way of ranking them than the small talent differences. Basically to answer your question, I don't think Jennings is more talented than any of the guys ahead of him. But I think his situation is very good, and he's likely to outperform many of the guys in both categories over the next handful of years. Jennings had an off year this season. That equated to 68/1113/4. Not a bad "floor" in my opinion.

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My pretty short quick list of most electric ever.....not necessarily in orderBarry SandersGale SayersBo JacksonChris JohnsonDeSean JacksonEric Metcalf

No Steve Slaton or Terrelle Pryor?
Please don't attempt to disparage my posts with silliness. My list stands on its own, so stick to what was written. Whenever you start to believe that you can project better than I, then step up to any number of challenges that are available to you to show.......Or pretty much stick to what you are good at, crunching numbers of what already has transpired to come to your conclusions....let the forecasters, evaluators, and historical analyzers stick to what we do best..... :)
While I won't comment on SSOG's ability to scout (since he himself has admitted several times its not his best strength or something he has any real desire to do), I will go ahead and suggest that it is a bit silly to include yourself in any list of successful "forecasters, evaluators, and historical analyzers." Your track record on this very board over the last few years is poor, to say the least. That doesn't mean you haven't gotten some right, but rather that your misses have been so bad and you have been so vocal that it makes you look very foolish. You may be a legend in your own mind, but after having several very outrageous and bold predictions (which you were very preachy about and argued about at some length, mind you), and then having those predictions more than blow up in your face and make you look ridiculous, I'm not sure anyone would consider you among the more reliable talent evaluators. If we are talking talent evaluators on this board, give me EBF and his sound analysis that generally doesn't involve outrageous statements and predictions simply to draw attention to himself every time.Anyway, I am pretty certain that SSOG's comment was simply a light hearted jab at 2 of your more outrageous and ridiculous statements that appear to be obvious and colossal misfires. There's no need to get upset and attempt to turn it into anything close to personal. If you were less overbearing, outlandish, and generally loud mouthed about most of your predictions, you wouldn't be so open to (and possibly deserving of?) such light hearted jabs.
I don't have time to add another detractor to my list to argue what my track record is (stellar!). What I do know is that I'm well ahead of the curve in evaluating (and acquiring) the premium talent in my fantasy endeavors. Before the masses, including many of you all who claim that you were there from the beginning, I've owned (drafted, waivers, and/or traded for) the likes of Aaron Rodgers, Jamaal Charles, Meachem, Sidney Rice, Welker, V-Jax, D-Jax, DeA, etc., etc. well before you even thought about 'em. I own Slaton in exactly 3 of 11 dynasty leagues, whooooopeeeee! And my boy Reggie Bush has helped me win quite a bit of $$$$ the past couple of seasons.....Like I stated to SSOG, I have a new league starting up for 2010, and I'm holding several spots open with an invite for any of you here in this thread who want to step up to the challenge. You'll probably want to be pretty well-versed in the current crop of college players as well as the incoming rooks, young talent already in the league, amidst all of the obvious guys that everyone knows about.Really, you're welcome to step in........the water's not too deep..... :lmao: And FYI, we draft before the NFL draft..... :thumbdown:
Here's the problem- if you were to have done a draft before this season started based on your ridiculous (and let's be real here, flat out HORRIBLE in many areas) pre-season analysis and projections, you very likely would have ended up with a team that consisted of Steve Slayton and Reggie Bush as your anchors, Josh Morgan instead of Michael Crabtree, Braylon Edwards, and Dwayne Bowe, not to mention Terrelle Pryor as your college player (if you draft college players). You may have filled the team out with some competent players, but without luck no team that drafted those players early, as you clearly would have based on your thoughts, could compete...and it would be set up for disaster in the future as well, making it double bad. To even ATTEMPT to insinuate that you were in ANY way far ahead of the masses on players like Jamaal Charles, V-Jax, Welker, DeAngelo Williams, Sidney Rice, etc... is absolutely ludicrous. You may have been ahead of the general public on said players, but to claim you were ahead of most of the minds and people that frequent this particular board? You're joking, right? It would seem your obviously over-inflated ego is messing with your memory. To select one particular player you repeatedly brag about, you were NOT on the Sidney Rice bandwagon "early." The more prudent minds in this forum saw him for what he was just as early as you, and those of us who reside in Minnesota knew of his potential far before you. You didn't have some magical epiphany that told you he was going to become a star any sooner than anyone else, nor have you about most of these players. The truth is, when looking over your 2009 dynasty rankings, they are flat out terrible. Not good, not even average...just bad. In your RB rankings alone, you have Reggie Bush 3, Forte 4, Slayton 7, McFadden 11. That's four COLOSSAL BUSTS in your first 11 running backs. At least 3 of those 4 busts appear to have severely damaged, if not completely destroyed, long term potential as well. Bravo- 4 horrible, horrible projections out of your first 11 is a TERRIBLE track record. You also managed to have Chris Johnson ranked #9 (someone who true prudent minds had MUCH higher in dynasty rankings), and Ray Rice not even in your top 30 (another player that prudent minds had tabs on and were targeting as a great investment). Receivers? Dwayne Bowe #7, Braylon Edwards #9, Roy Williams #17. That's 3 players that other minds would not have touched with a 10 foot pole. Your gifted mind also saw fit to have Vincent Jackson #24 (just 1 spot ahead of Donny Avery and 2 spots behind Anthony Gonzalez). You also only had DeSean Jackson #15, so to attempt to claim that your prescient mind allowed you to nail him is laughable. WR #15 is right in line with where EVERYONE would have put him...you might have even had him LOWER than many. Have you had some hits? Sure you have. I'm not writing this to tell you that you are the worst projector ever and that you are never, ever right. What I'm trying to enlighten you to is the fact that, as it pertains to this board, you have a poor track record combined with a very cocky (and at times combative) attitude. Your misses appear to far outweigh your hits. And they aren't just minor misses- they are 'Steve Slayton is Terrell Davis incarnate' misses. You are perhaps the single cockiest poster I have seen on here, yet most of what you project on this board seems to backfire on you. I could tell you that I saw Terrell Davis' success a mile away, that I knew DeAngelo Williams would finish as RB1 last year, that I saw Miles Austin's success coming years ago. Yet without any proof or track record to back it up, why should anyone believe me? You continue to say you have made all these great projections and are well ahead of the curve and consistently dominating, yet all we seem to see as it pertains to your projections on this board are mediocrity if not utter failures (Slayton, Edwards, Morgan over Crabtree, Bush, etc...), sprinkled with just a few hits. And all of that wouldn't even matter or be a big deal at all if you weren't so arrogant. It's great to step out on a ledge and it takes some guts, and I will be doing it myself over this upcoming off-season (which I haven't done in past years on here), so I can admire it. However, I will not be doing it with the disregard you seem to have to the track record and past failures and how it can help you improve nor the braggadocio you employ. As to playing in leagues with you- I can only speak for myself, but I would love to if you didn't act like the exact kind of person I would not want to be in a league with in many of your posts. I realize it is a fairly small sample size and your personality may not reflect how you come off when you come under fire, but posts like the 3 or 4 you have above this one I think illustrate why people aren't jumping at your offer to prove yourself. Edited by Herm23

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2.05 17. 'NTER THA DRAGGIN' Slaton, Steve HOU RB Mon Mar 30 2:51:40 p.m. CT 2009 - Just when u thought it was safe to go in the water....Here comes the "Shark" move.....when everybody goes WR crazy, that's when you cut against the grain on a dime like my boy SS......SuperStar Stevie "Wonder" Baaaaaaaaaby!!!!!....

Best thing about being in a league with Kremenull are the tidbits he posts with his picks...sorry buddy had to :thumbup:of course one pick before this I took Eddie Royal...so I can't bash you for the pick.
LOL!....Haaahaaa, I knew somebody would bring something like this forward......Hey, can't get everything right all the time....although, Slaton might not be done just yet...... :blackdot:

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I agree completely here, especially with Boldin. He was #1 (PPG) last year.

Anquan Boldin averaged 7.4/86.5/.9, which prorates to 118/1384/14Smith averaged 5.6/101.5/.4, which pro-rates to 90/1624/7Factor in the fact that Boldin was playing with Warner while Smiff was playing with Delhomme and I think Smiff's season was more impressive last year. Throw in Boldin's injury history and the fact that he's not long for Arizona and I'd prefer Smiff to Boldin by a comfortable margin.
I'm not sure what your point is here. Boldin was #1 (PPG). I like Smith too. I wasn't making a claim that Smith wasn't good. Just that Boldin should be ranked just as high. There were other points as well:

He was top 10 this year, other than weeks 6-10 when he played with his ankle sprain. He's 2 years younger than Smith. And, probably the biggest point, it doesn't matter who he has at QB. He still produces.In addition, it isn't like Smith's QB picture has gotten any better.

Smith has had the benefit of playing with essentially the same QB his whole career. It's not like Delhomme has always been this bad. While Boldin may not be in AZ much longer, he has produced well even when his QBs were bad.

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Here's the problem- if you were to have done a draft before this season started based on your ridiculous (and let's be real here, flat out HORRIBLE in many areas) pre-season analysis and projections, you very likely would have ended up with a team that consisted of Steve Slayton and Reggie Bush as your anchors, Josh Morgan instead of Michael Crabtree, Braylon Edwards, and Dwayne Bowe, not to mention Terrelle Pryor as your college player (if you draft college players). You may have filled the team out with some competent players, but without luck no team that drafted those players early, as you clearly would have based on your thoughts, could compete...and it would be set up for disaster in the future as well, making it double bad. To even ATTEMPT to insinuate that you were in ANY way far ahead of the masses on players like Jamaal Charles, V-Jax, Welker, DeAngelo Williams, Sidney Rice, etc... is absolutely ludicrous. You may have been ahead of the general public on said players, but to claim you were ahead of most of the minds and people that frequent this particular board? You're joking, right? It would seem your obviously over-inflated ego is messing with your memory. To select one particular player you repeatedly brag about, you were NOT on the Sidney Rice bandwagon "early." The more prudent minds in this forum saw him for what he was just as early as you, and those of us who reside in Minnesota knew of his potential far before you. You didn't have some magical epiphany that told you he was going to become a star any sooner than anyone else, nor have you about most of these players. The truth is, when looking over your 2009 dynasty rankings, they are flat out terrible. Not good, not even average...just bad. In your RB rankings alone, you have Reggie Bush 3, Forte 4, Slayton 7, McFadden 11. That's four COLOSSAL BUSTS in your first 11 running backs. At least 3 of those 4 busts appear to have severely damaged, if not completely destroyed, long term potential as well. Bravo- 4 horrible, horrible projections out of your first 11 is a TERRIBLE track record. You also managed to have Chris Johnson ranked #9 (someone who true prudent minds had MUCH higher in dynasty rankings), and Ray Rice not even in your top 30 (another player that prudent minds had tabs on and were targeting as a great investment). Receivers? Dwayne Bowe #7, Braylon Edwards #9, Roy Williams #17. That's 3 players that other minds would not have touched with a 10 foot pole. Your gifted mind also saw fit to have Vincent Jackson #24 (just 1 spot ahead of Donny Avery and 2 spots behind Anthony Gonzalez). You also only had DeSean Jackson #15, so to attempt to claim that your prescient mind allowed you to nail him is laughable. WR #15 is right in line with where EVERYONE would have put him...you might have even had him LOWER than many. Have you had some hits? Sure you have. I'm not writing this to tell you that you are the worst projector ever and that you are never, ever right. What I'm trying to enlighten you to is the fact that, as it pertains to this board, you have a poor track record combined with a very cocky (and at times combative) attitude. Your misses appear to far outweigh your hits. And they aren't just minor misses- they are 'Steve Slayton is Terrell Davis incarnate' misses. You are perhaps the single cockiest poster I have seen on here, yet most of what you project on this board seems to backfire on you. I could tell you that I saw Terrell Davis' success a mile away, that I knew DeAngelo Williams would finish as RB1 last year, that I saw Miles Austin's success coming years ago. Yet without any proof or track record to back it up, why should anyone believe me? You continue to say you have made all these great projections and are well ahead of the curve and consistently dominating, yet all we seem to see as it pertains to your projections on this board are mediocrity if not utter failures (Slayton, Edwards, Morgan over Crabtree, Bush, etc...), sprinkled with just a few hits. And all of that wouldn't even matter or be a big deal at all if you weren't so arrogant. It's great to step out on a ledge and it takes some guts, and I will be doing it myself over this upcoming off-season (which I haven't done in past years on here), so I can admire it. However, I will not be doing it with the disregard you seem to have to the track record and past failures and how it can help you improve nor the braggadocio you employ. As to playing in leagues with you- I can only speak for myself, but I would love to if you didn't act like the exact kind of person I would not want to be in a league with in many of your posts. I realize it is a fairly small sample size and your personality may not reflect how you come off when you come under fire, but posts like the 3 or 4 you have above this one I think illustrate why people aren't jumping at your offer to prove yourself.

Do you think my draft selections follow my or anyone else's rankings to a tee? And please, don't bother with the revisionist history on cherry-picking off of my 2009 rankings as your guide on my evaluations and fantasy acumen. Full preseason rankings are one piece of the puzzle, and just a little free tidbit for you and others, if you want to make your mark in this endeavor, you better draft very well in the mid-to-latter rounds, which is where I am deadly. If you think you are the only one who knows how to draft Fitz, Calvin, ADP, MJD, and Brees, then let me let you in on a little secret.......U R NOT ALONE!....Yeah, I guess I only drafted Sid Rice in a rookie draft, my only one that year, as well as traded for him this offseason giving up KW II straight up (some were pretty perplexed at the deal, well before Favre was even mentioned as heading there), as well as having him ranked ahead of Berrian in my dynasty rankings (how many others did this, not many, is all I WITNESSED!).... Really my man, save all the meaningless banter as I'm not even going to counter all of those players you mentioned who I KNOW I made moves to acquire either in earnest well ahead of the masses, or drafted them before they blew up well ahead of when most had been drafting them (e.g., V-Jax in '08 I drafted in mid 6th-7th Rd of 2 dynasty leagues as one of my breakout players....see draft commentary below, and yes, I check draft ADPs and if you were also drafting him there then you were ahead of the curve with me. Before then, he was looked at as just an avg. player in the league - 3 years of mediocre production - I have a number of leagues and he was not highly valued nor sought after until about the middle of '08 or so)...... And please speak upon what you know, as how I act anywhere else and how I act in this forum are not one and the same. The call goes out to owners seeking top-notch competitiveness who aren't afraid of a little trash-talking nor wagering. Really, I don't look to be guys' best buddies in this endeavor, I'm about the competition and developing great leagues that have interesting formats to create a diverse strategic approach and test owners' knowledge and fortitude. 7.08 80. 'NTER THA DRAGGIN' Jackson, Vincent SDC WR Wed Aug 6 12:51:27 a.m. ET 2008 I'm talking 'bout a 4th year breakout.....some people take a little bit longer to develop/mature......:-)Note that this was a 2008 draft, so while you were stuck on referencing my 2009 ranking of V-Jax, I already owned him the year he broke out ('08) and helped me win $$$$......

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Please, for the love of God stop with all this nonsense BS banter. You guys are killing an absolutely GOLDEN thread. Just stop.

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Steve Smith averaged 100 yards per game in 2005, his monster year. From 2006-2008, if you throw out the games where Carolina started Weinke, Carr, or Testaverde, Smiff averaged... 100 yards a game. Smiff has been producing at exactly the same rate for the past 4 years, he's just had Chris Weinke and David Carr throwing him the ball.

:thumbup:Possibly my No. 1 buy-low for the offseason. Edited by Fear & Loathing

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Will probably sit down to do my dynasty rankings in a few weeks. One of the top questions will be:Jamal Charles: Is he Steve Slaton or Chris Johnson? I thought he was too small coming into this season, but he's opened my eyes and I need to reevaluate.

Much, much closer to Johnson. I tweeted earlier tonight that Charles had moved into my No. 5 spot at running back behind only Johnson, Peterson, Jones-Drew and Rice.

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Will probably sit down to do my dynasty rankings in a few weeks. One of the top questions will be:Jamal Charles: Is he Steve Slaton or Chris Johnson? I thought he was too small coming into this season, but he's opened my eyes and I need to reevaluate.

Much, much closer to Johnson. I tweeted earlier tonight that Charles had moved into my No. 5 spot at running back behind only Johnson, Peterson, Jones-Drew and Rice.
Wow. I didn't see this coming. Time to do some home work on Charles.

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Will probably sit down to do my dynasty rankings in a few weeks. One of the top questions will be:Jamal Charles: Is he Steve Slaton or Chris Johnson? I thought he was too small coming into this season, but he's opened my eyes and I need to reevaluate.

Much, much closer to Johnson. I tweeted earlier tonight that Charles had moved into my No. 5 spot at running back behind only Johnson, Peterson, Jones-Drew and Rice.
Really agree here. Went out and got Charles in almost every single league last offseason, and it helped bigtime down the stretch this year. Just took him a year and a half to get his shot.P.S. to all the people tired of Kremenull's bull that I keep seeign posted...stop whining about it, let the arrogant moron post, and exercise your use of the ignore button.

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Will probably sit down to do my dynasty rankings in a few weeks. One of the top questions will be:Jamal Charles: Is he Steve Slaton or Chris Johnson? I thought he was too small coming into this season, but he's opened my eyes and I need to reevaluate.

Much, much closer to Johnson. I tweeted earlier tonight that Charles had moved into my No. 5 spot at running back behind only Johnson, Peterson, Jones-Drew and Rice.
Well i'm not buying it. That would make him a first round pick in any startup dynasty draft. Would you seriously build your franchise around Jamal Charles?I would rather have Stewart, Jackson or Gore at this point. I could make a strong case for Williams too and Mendenhall is looking pretty good as well.:shrug:

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Please, for the love of God stop with all this nonsense BS banter. You guys are killing an absolutely GOLDEN thread. Just stop.

:goodposting:Was about to post the same thing.

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Will probably sit down to do my dynasty rankings in a few weeks. One of the top questions will be:Jamal Charles: Is he Steve Slaton or Chris Johnson? I thought he was too small coming into this season, but he's opened my eyes and I need to reevaluate.

Much, much closer to Johnson. I tweeted earlier tonight that Charles had moved into my No. 5 spot at running back behind only Johnson, Peterson, Jones-Drew and Rice.
Well i'm not buying it. That would make him a first round pick in any startup dynasty draft. Would you seriously build your franchise around Jamal Charles?I would rather have Stewart, Jackson or Gore at this point. I could make a strong case for Williams too and Mendenhall is looking pretty good as well.:goodposting:
I agree. Charles has been fantastic over the last month, but four games isn't a big enough sample size for me to move him that high up on my board. There's no way I would trade Stewart for him. I also can't see myself moving DeAngelo, Gore, or Mendenhall for him either. Even though he was a beast in college and a pretty high draft pick, I need to see more.

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Will probably sit down to do my dynasty rankings in a few weeks. One of the top questions will be:Jamal Charles: Is he Steve Slaton or Chris Johnson? I thought he was too small coming into this season, but he's opened my eyes and I need to reevaluate.

Much, much closer to Johnson. I tweeted earlier tonight that Charles had moved into my No. 5 spot at running back behind only Johnson, Peterson, Jones-Drew and Rice.
Well i'm not buying it. That would make him a first round pick in any startup dynasty draft. Would you seriously build your franchise around Jamal Charles?I would rather have Stewart, Jackson or Gore at this point. I could make a strong case for Williams too and Mendenhall is looking pretty good as well.:goodposting:
I agree. Charles has been fantastic over the last month, but four games isn't a big enough sample size for me to move him that high up on my board. There's no way I would trade Stewart for him. I also can't see myself moving DeAngelo, Gore, or Mendenhall for him either. Even though he was a beast in college and a pretty high draft pick, I need to see more.
While I agree #5 is too high, he has more yds since he became the starter than anyone not named Chris Johnson (and that was before today's game), it has been over 2 months since he became the starter. Edited by WKTSWAY

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Final regular season standings for the inaugural season of the FB Guys Dynasty Playoff League:

PLAYOFFS

1. Fear & Loathing: 12-5, 2319.70 points (Thank you, Jabar Gaffney)

2. ChuckLiddell: 12-5, 2315.72 points

3. FUBAR: 12-5, 2180.62 points

4. Twinkilling.com: 9-8, 1980.68

5. Gorf: 9-8, 1962.58

6. Neo: 8-9, 2112.36

WAIT TIL NEXT YEAR

7. mcintyre1: 8-9, 2055.58

8. Shader: 7-10, 2120.24

9. benm3218: 7-10, 2016.24

10. Frank Costanza's Lawyer: 7-10, 1900.06

11. kremenull: 6-11, 1945.48

12. Magnus_CA: 5-12, 1932.44

Congrats to the six that made it, condolences to Shader, mcintyre1, and benm3218 who deserved a better fate.

Heavy trading season opens tomorrow.

Edited by Fear & Loathing

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Will probably sit down to do my dynasty rankings in a few weeks. One of the top questions will be:Jamal Charles: Is he Steve Slaton or Chris Johnson? I thought he was too small coming into this season, but he's opened my eyes and I need to reevaluate.

Much, much closer to Johnson. I tweeted earlier tonight that Charles had moved into my No. 5 spot at running back behind only Johnson, Peterson, Jones-Drew and Rice.
Well i'm not buying it. That would make him a first round pick in any startup dynasty draft. Would you seriously build your franchise around Jamal Charles?I would rather have Stewart, Jackson or Gore at this point. I could make a strong case for Williams too and Mendenhall is looking pretty good as well.:goodposting:
He'll be a first-round pick in redraft leagues, and he's a 23-year-old back with the second-most fantasy points over the second-half of the season to go with 5.9(!) YPC and very good pass-catching skills. What's not to like?Larry Johnson averaged 3.2 YPC less behind the same O-Line.I'll take another look before I do the updates, but he's going to be Top 6 or 7 for sure. In the interest of full disclosure, his damage the past 3 weeks came against the Bills, Browns, and Broncos. Not exactly stingy run defenses. Edited by Fear & Loathing

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Will probably sit down to do my dynasty rankings in a few weeks. One of the top questions will be:Jamal Charles: Is he Steve Slaton or Chris Johnson? I thought he was too small coming into this season, but he's opened my eyes and I need to reevaluate.

Much, much closer to Johnson. I tweeted earlier tonight that Charles had moved into my No. 5 spot at running back behind only Johnson, Peterson, Jones-Drew and Rice.
Well i'm not buying it. That would make him a first round pick in any startup dynasty draft. Would you seriously build your franchise around Jamal Charles?I would rather have Stewart, Jackson or Gore at this point. I could make a strong case for Williams too and Mendenhall is looking pretty good as well.:lmao:
He'll be a first-round pick in redraft leagues, and he's a 23-year-old back with the second-most fantasy points over the second-half of the season to go with 5.9(!) YPC and very good pass-catching skills. What's not to like?Larry Johnson averaged 3.2 YPC less behind the same O-Line.I'll take another look before I do the updates, but he's going to be Top 6 or 7 for sure. In the interest of full disclosure, his damage the past 3 weeks came against the Bills, Browns, and Broncos. Not exactly stingy run defenses.
Not bad...but he's no Jerome Harrison. LOL. Over the last three weeks Harrison is the top fantasy back, putting over over 90 fantasy points. 561 rushing yards in three games5.3 yards per carry5 rushing TDsYes, he did that against the Chiefs, Raiders, and Jaguars...but still.

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I think Charles is far too speculative to warrant a top 10 pick. He has the potential to eventually justify that kind of ranking, but most of his production has come in the last four games. That's not a big enough sample size to draw strong enough conclusions to rank him as one of the best players in all of FF.

I've seen a lot of guys fluke their way to a good stretch run. Ron Dayne, Ladell Betts, Lee Suggs, and William Green come to mind. Charles is much more impressive than these guys, but the broader point is that it's entirely possible for someone to play way over his head for a period of several games. I would like to see Charles perform well over a bigger sample size before I conclude that he's a superstar.

Most of his big games have come against crappy teams and his workload over the past few weeks is probably not sustainable over a 16 game season (he has 94 carries over the last four games, which prorates to 376 carries over a full season). My attitude towards him is the same as my attitude towards Chris Johnson and Steve Slaton last season: I'm impressed by the early results, but I need to see more. There's little upside and tons of downside to ranking him as a top 10 player right now.

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Will probably sit down to do my dynasty rankings in a few weeks. One of the top questions will be:Jamal Charles: Is he Steve Slaton or Chris Johnson? I thought he was too small coming into this season, but he's opened my eyes and I need to reevaluate.

Much, much closer to Johnson. I tweeted earlier tonight that Charles had moved into my No. 5 spot at running back behind only Johnson, Peterson, Jones-Drew and Rice.
F&L -- where would you rank Frank Gore? He would've been up in the tier with the backs you mentioned if he hadn't been injured for three weeks.

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He'll be a first-round pick in redraft leagues, and he's a 23-year-old back with the second-most fantasy points over the second-half of the season to go with 5.9(!) YPC and very good pass-catching skills. What's not to like?

Larry Johnson averaged 3.2 YPC less behind the same O-Line.

I'll take another look before I do the updates, but he's going to be Top 6 or 7 for sure. In the interest of full disclosure, his damage the past 3 weeks came against the Bills, Browns, and Broncos. Not exactly stingy run defenses.

Well, it's a long way to redraft time, and I admit that I need to research Charles a bit... but as of right now, no way would I consider taking him with a top 10 pick in any of my redraft leagues.

I'm interested to know if this puts me in some kind of minority... I wouldn't have thought so.

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Will probably sit down to do my dynasty rankings in a few weeks. One of the top questions will be:Jamal Charles: Is he Steve Slaton or Chris Johnson? I thought he was too small coming into this season, but he's opened my eyes and I need to reevaluate.

Much, much closer to Johnson. I tweeted earlier tonight that Charles had moved into my No. 5 spot at running back behind only Johnson, Peterson, Jones-Drew and Rice.
F&L -- where would you rank Frank Gore? He would've been up in the tier with the backs you mentioned if he hadn't been injured for three weeks.
The top four are locks. After that, I think you have some combination of S-Jax, Gore, Stewart, Charles, Mendenhall, D.Williams in the next tier.

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He'll be a first-round pick in redraft leagues, and he's a 23-year-old back with the second-most fantasy points over the second-half of the season to go with 5.9(!) YPC and very good pass-catching skills. What's not to like?

Larry Johnson averaged 3.2 YPC less behind the same O-Line.

I'll take another look before I do the updates, but he's going to be Top 6 or 7 for sure. In the interest of full disclosure, his damage the past 3 weeks came against the Bills, Browns, and Broncos. Not exactly stingy run defenses.

Well, it's a long way to redraft time, and I admit that I need to research Charles a bit... but as of right now, no way would I consider taking him with a top 10 pick in any of my redraft leagues.

I'm interested to know if this puts me in some kind of minority... I wouldn't have thought so.

This doesn't help you with the outside opinions you're looking for, but it's an article I did Friday looking forward to the first round in 2010.

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Well i'm not buying it. That would make him a first round pick in any startup dynasty draft. Would you seriously build your franchise around Jamal Charles?I would rather have Stewart, Jackson or Gore at this point. I could make a strong case for Williams too and Mendenhall is looking pretty good as well.:goodposting:

It's been a while since Mendenhall has looked pretty good. Over the last half of the season, you could call his performance "serviceable" or "workmanlike" if you were in the mood to be generous.Mendenhall has topped 100 yards three times this season. The first time was his first game against San Diego, back when they had just lost Jamal Williams and their run defense was among the worst in the league. The second time was against Denver, whose run defense has been hemorrhaging for a while now. The third was against Oakland, where he managed 105 yards. In addition, he has a pair of 90 yard games, and 80 yard game... and seven games where he failed to reach 80 yards rushing since he became a starter. In the last 8 games, he's averaged 17.8/66.9/0.375 (3.77 ypc) rushing. As of right now, to me Mendenhall looks more like Forte/Lynch/Moreno/Smith and less like Stewart/Jackson/Gore/Williams.

I think Charles is far too speculative to warrant a top 10 pick. He has the potential to eventually justify that kind of ranking, but most of his production has come in the last four games. That's not a big enough sample size to draw strong enough conclusions to rank him as one of the best players in all of FF.

That's the key for me- managing risk. "Avoid the Noid", so to speak. When I use my first round pick, I want to snag a guy who I am reasonably certain I will still be starting 4 years from now. I like Charles' upside a lot, but there are at least 12 guys who I am more certain will still be starting in 4 years.

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Well i'm not buying it. That would make him a first round pick in any startup dynasty draft. Would you seriously build your franchise around Jamal Charles?

I would rather have Stewart, Jackson or Gore at this point. I could make a strong case for Williams too and Mendenhall is looking pretty good as well.

:goodposting:

It's been a while since Mendenhall has looked pretty good. Over the last half of the season, you could call his performance "serviceable" or "workmanlike" if you were in the mood to be generous.

Mendenhall has topped 100 yards three times this season. The first time was his first game against San Diego, back when they had just lost Jamal Williams and their run defense was among the worst in the league. The second time was against Denver, whose run defense has been hemorrhaging for a while now. The third was against Oakland, where he managed 105 yards. In addition, he has a pair of 90 yard games, and 80 yard game... and seven games where he failed to reach 80 yards rushing since he became a starter. In the last 8 games, he's averaged 17.8/66.9/0.375 (3.77 ypc) rushing. As of right now, to me Mendenhall looks more like Forte/Lynch/Moreno/Smith and less like Stewart/Jackson/Gore/Williams.

I think Charles is far too speculative to warrant a top 10 pick. He has the potential to eventually justify that kind of ranking, but most of his production has come in the last four games. That's not a big enough sample size to draw strong enough conclusions to rank him as one of the best players in all of FF.

That's the key for me- managing risk. "Avoid the Noid", so to speak. When I use my first round pick, I want to snag a guy who I am reasonably certain I will still be starting 4 years from now. I like Charles' upside a lot, but there are at least 12 guys who I am more certain will still be starting in 4 years.
Mendenhall situation (role, team, front office) alone is much better then any of the players you named and this was pretty much his rookie season so i'm not willing to downgrade him based on an 8 games stretch. His upside and stability is far greater too. Not even close imo.

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Will probably sit down to do my dynasty rankings in a few weeks. One of the top questions will be:Jamal Charles: Is he Steve Slaton or Chris Johnson? I thought he was too small coming into this season, but he's opened my eyes and I need to reevaluate.

Much, much closer to Johnson. I tweeted earlier tonight that Charles had moved into my No. 5 spot at running back behind only Johnson, Peterson, Jones-Drew and Rice.
Well i'm not buying it. That would make him a first round pick in any startup dynasty draft. Would you seriously build your franchise around Jamal Charles?I would rather have Stewart, Jackson or Gore at this point. I could make a strong case for Williams too and Mendenhall is looking pretty good as well.:goodposting:
I agree. Charles has been fantastic over the last month, but four games isn't a big enough sample size for me to move him that high up on my board. There's no way I would trade Stewart for him. I also can't see myself moving DeAngelo, Gore, or Mendenhall for him either. Even though he was a beast in college and a pretty high draft pick, I need to see more.
While I agree #5 is too high, he has more yds since he became the starter than anyone not named Chris Johnson (and that was before today's game), it has been over 2 months since he became the starter.
William Green, Kevin Jones, Julius Jones, and Ryan Grant all had similar stretches when they took over the starting job.Just saying...

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Well i'm not buying it. That would make him a first round pick in any startup dynasty draft. Would you seriously build your franchise around Jamal Charles?

I would rather have Stewart, Jackson or Gore at this point. I could make a strong case for Williams too and Mendenhall is looking pretty good as well.

:lol:

It's been a while since Mendenhall has looked pretty good. Over the last half of the season, you could call his performance "serviceable" or "workmanlike" if you were in the mood to be generous.

Mendenhall has topped 100 yards three times this season. The first time was his first game against San Diego, back when they had just lost Jamal Williams and their run defense was among the worst in the league. The second time was against Denver, whose run defense has been hemorrhaging for a while now. The third was against Oakland, where he managed 105 yards. In addition, he has a pair of 90 yard games, and 80 yard game... and seven games where he failed to reach 80 yards rushing since he became a starter. In the last 8 games, he's averaged 17.8/66.9/0.375 (3.77 ypc) rushing. As of right now, to me Mendenhall looks more like Forte/Lynch/Moreno/Smith and less like Stewart/Jackson/Gore/Williams.

I think Charles is far too speculative to warrant a top 10 pick. He has the potential to eventually justify that kind of ranking, but most of his production has come in the last four games. That's not a big enough sample size to draw strong enough conclusions to rank him as one of the best players in all of FF.

That's the key for me- managing risk. "Avoid the Noid", so to speak. When I use my first round pick, I want to snag a guy who I am reasonably certain I will still be starting 4 years from now. I like Charles' upside a lot, but there are at least 12 guys who I am more certain will still be starting in 4 years.
Mendenhall situation (role, team, front office) alone is much better then any of the players you named and this was pretty much his rookie season so i'm not willing to downgrade him based on an 8 games stretch. His upside and stability is far greater too. Not even close imo.
You also need to look at Mendenhall's carries, many weeks he was only seeing 10-15 carries which accounts for the lack of 100 yard games.

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Great thread guys. As good as it gets.

Anyone care to weigh in on the following:

Jerome Harrison - heavy workload last few weeks, has produced decent numbers. People seem to be all over the map on his value.

Jacoby Jones - I've been hanging on to him in several leagues and this year he showed some real signs of progressing (6 TDs). Outperformed Kevin Walter lately - will he take the #2 job next season?

James Jones/Jordy Nelson - To me, Jones seems like the safer bet to inherit the #2 role once Driver is gone, but Nelson has shown nice flashes. Any insight or is this a crapshoot?

Laurent Robinson - I'm sure I'm in the minority, but I think he could be a Sidney Rice type breakout player in '10. Great talent, bad luck with injuries. Looked very good before going down. If he can stay healthy I think he will be a huge value.

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I hear what everyone is saying about Jamaal Charles. I'd like to believe he can't sustain it since I completely whiffed on an opportunity to have him in my main league.

I will say F&L is very good about going bold with a guy he loves and then being proven right. Example would be his CJ pimping WAY WAY before it was cool to like CJ.

He was light years out in front of that one, he started the band wagon actually. SO............ if he thinks Charles is top 10 I'm going to take notice.

Bad news is the guy who has him in my main league is the WORST to trade with. he thinks EVERY single player he has is the best player in the NFL. So after Charles last 4 games there is zero chance I can pry him away.

I could offer MJD and something enlse and he would laugh at me. Charles is off the table in that league.

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I don't have time to add another detractor to my list to argue what my track record is (stellar!). What I do know is that I'm well ahead of the curve in evaluating (and acquiring) the premium talent in my fantasy endeavors. Before the masses, including many of you all who claim that you were there from the beginning, I've owned (drafted, waivers, and/or traded for) the likes of Aaron Rodgers, Jamaal Charles, Meachem, Sidney Rice, Welker, V-Jax, D-Jax, DeA, etc., etc. well before you even thought about 'em. I own Slaton in exactly 3 of 11 dynasty leagues, whooooopeeeee! And my boy Reggie Bush has helped me win quite a bit of $$$$ the past couple of seasons.....

Dude... you seriously need to look objectively back on your predictions and rankings. As was said above, you have a terrible track record on most of your rankings... and yet you continue to be very arrogant about them. Since I'm not in any leagues with you, I'm judging solely on your opinions here, not on how you've drafted - so saying "I draft differently than I rank" doesn't hold any weight. And, in fact, it may suggest that you realize how bad your rankings really are. Winning money and leagues doesn't mean too much depending on the competition.I'm in one league with a bunch of guys I used to know, mostly from Fanball.com but a few hung out here too. This is a 12 team league and my roster is so sick it's not even funny. Does this mean I'm a super-genius, or is my competition just not so good? To give you an idea of what I'm talking about, here's the offensive side of my rosteR:QB: Ben, McNabb, Orton, VYRB: ADP, CJ3, Rice, Turner, Lendale, Danny Ware, GoodsonWR: Wayne, Rice, Boldin, Austin, Clayton, Nicks, DHB, Breaston, Clayton, Knox, SchilensTE: Winslow, Fred Davis, Beckum, BarnidgePersonally, I prefer 16 team leagues, and I prefer contract/salary leagues which make these decisions matter more than just wasting a roster spot/draft position. Sometimes it's about getting your player but also what you're willing to pay for him.

Like I stated to SSOG, I have a new league starting up for 2010, and I'm holding several spots open with an invite for any of you here in this thread who want to step up to the challenge. You'll probably want to be pretty well-versed in the current crop of college players as well as the incoming rooks, young talent already in the league, amidst all of the obvious guys that everyone knows about.Really, you're welcome to step in........the water's not too deep..... :shark: And FYI, we draft before the NFL draft..... :lmao:

:confused: ? IDP? How many teams? I could potentially be interested.

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While I agree #5 is too high, he has more yds since he became the starter than anyone not named Chris Johnson (and that was before today's game), it has been over 2 months since he became the starter.

William Green, Kevin Jones, Julius Jones, and Ryan Grant all had similar stretches when they took over the starting job.Just saying...
Why is Ryan Grant listed with the likes of William Green?

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Great thread guys. As good as it gets.Anyone care to weigh in on the following:Jerome Harrison - heavy workload last few weeks, has produced decent numbers. People seem to be all over the map on his value. Jacoby Jones - I've been hanging on to him in several leagues and this year he showed some real signs of progressing (6 TDs). Outperformed Kevin Walter lately - will he take the #2 job next season? James Jones/Jordy Nelson - To me, Jones seems like the safer bet to inherit the #2 role once Driver is gone, but Nelson has shown nice flashes. Any insight or is this a crapshoot?Laurent Robinson - I'm sure I'm in the minority, but I think he could be a Sidney Rice type breakout player in '10. Great talent, bad luck with injuries. Looked very good before going down. If he can stay healthy I think he will be a huge value.

From a dynasty perspective:It's hard to say what Harrison's situation will be, but I am not one who sees him being a long-term starter. He looks like RBBC to me. Maybe I'll be wrong, but I'm not sold. If he starts next year, I would be looking to sell high as soon as he has a big game. As a matter of fact, selling high right now is not a bad idea.I am a huge fan of Jacoby Jones and if he can keep from making bonehead mistakes like missing flights, etc, I can literally see him being a top 25 WR next year. He has plenty of talent and if he can earn the starting job opposite AJ, he has a chance to be a very good WR. Definitely one of my top offseason targets. I think Jones has more talent than Nelson, but it probably is a crapshoot. I am a big Laurent Robinson fan, but I don't think he has the sick skills that Rice does. He also plays for a team with a terrible offense and he is always hurt. Very risky, but tons of upside long-term IMO. He is another player I am targeting in the offseason.

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James Jones/Jordy Nelson - To me, Jones seems like the safer bet to inherit the #2 role once Driver is gone, but Nelson has shown nice flashes. Any insight or is this a crapshoot?

As someone that has followed the Packers closely, it still remains murky at best. Both have great size and decent speed. Jones seems to have shown a little more grit in catching underneath and turning it into something. Nelson seems a little sharper at getting deep and getting over defenders to catch the ball. Much different strengths. And frankly, I don't think Driver is going anywhere for at least a couple more years. Edited by Man in the yellow hat

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Well i'm not buying it. That would make him a first round pick in any startup dynasty draft. Would you seriously build your franchise around Jamal Charles?I would rather have Stewart, Jackson or Gore at this point. I could make a strong case for Williams too and Mendenhall is looking pretty good as well.:rolleyes:

It's been a while since Mendenhall has looked pretty good. Over the last half of the season, you could call his performance "serviceable" or "workmanlike" if you were in the mood to be generous.Mendenhall has topped 100 yards three times this season. The first time was his first game against San Diego, back when they had just lost Jamal Williams and their run defense was among the worst in the league. The second time was against Denver, whose run defense has been hemorrhaging for a while now. The third was against Oakland, where he managed 105 yards. In addition, he has a pair of 90 yard games, and 80 yard game... and seven games where he failed to reach 80 yards rushing since he became a starter. In the last 8 games, he's averaged 17.8/66.9/0.375 (3.77 ypc) rushing. As of right now, to me Mendenhall looks more like Forte/Lynch/Moreno/Smith and less like Stewart/Jackson/Gore/Williams.
This is a good bit misleading. Mendenhall's TOTAL yardage since taking over as the starting running back in week 4:Week 4- 191Week 5- 93Week 6- 77Week 7- 68Week 8- BYEWeek 9- 163Week 10- 41Week 11- 116Week 12- 117Week 13- 103Week 14- 70Week 15- 111Week 16- 40Week 17- 120Part of Mendenhall's attractiveness moving forward is his 3 down ability. He doesn't leave the field in passing situations much of the time and appears to be a very capable pass catching back. When taking total yardage into account, he actually surpassed 100 total yards 7 times (with another 93 yard game). Really, he only had 2 off games the entire season (week 10 and week 16, and in one of those weeks he scored a TD).I also believe this is much more Mendenhall's floor than anywhere close to his ceiling. The Steelers curiously became one of the highest passing teams in the league this season, giving Mendenhall less than 20 carries in 7 games since week 4. They also missed the post season after going to this pass happy attack. Something tells me they will re-evaluate that strategy over the off-season and Mendenhall will be a good bet to receive 20 carries on a regular basis next season.

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Will probably sit down to do my dynasty rankings in a few weeks. One of the top questions will be:

Jamal Charles: Is he Steve Slaton or Chris Johnson? I thought he was too small coming into this season, but he's opened my eyes and I need to reevaluate.

Much, much closer to Johnson. I tweeted earlier tonight that Charles had moved into my No. 5 spot at running back behind only Johnson, Peterson, Jones-Drew and Rice.
WOW!.....Where is the love for DeA? Stewart? S-Jax?

Well, since I own him in quite a few leagues already, it's getting about time that I pump up the market on my end as well...... :banned: :banned:

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I think Charles is far too speculative to warrant a top 10 pick. He has the potential to eventually justify that kind of ranking, but most of his production has come in the last four games. That's not a big enough sample size to draw strong enough conclusions to rank him as one of the best players in all of FF. I've seen a lot of guys fluke their way to a good stretch run. Ron Dayne, Ladell Betts, Lee Suggs, and William Green come to mind. Charles is much more impressive than these guys, but the broader point is that it's entirely possible for someone to play way over his head for a period of several games. I would like to see Charles perform well over a bigger sample size before I conclude that he's a superstar.Most of his big games have come against crappy teams and his workload over the past few weeks is probably not sustainable over a 16 game season (he has 94 carries over the last four games, which prorates to 376 carries over a full season). My attitude towards him is the same as my attitude towards Chris Johnson and Steve Slaton last season: I'm impressed by the early results, but I need to see more. There's little upside and tons of downside to ranking him as a top 10 player right now.

No disrespect my man EBF, and I'm sure you are a consistent player with this mindset. But alternatively, this is also the type of thinking that could be the reason for a 3rd or 4th place finish as opposed to having a championship banner flying. Sometimes, when talent is obviously present and producing like this, you have to seize the moment (and player) instead of waiting around for more "sample size", as I hear so many guys speaking of. I certainly learned my lesson from not pursuing Chris Johnson in the beginning, even after him putting up huge numbers on a "small sample size", I still wasn't truly sold. Is Charles as good as Chris Johnson? Maybe, maybe not. Can he be as productive as Ray Rice? Certainly. Or even Chris Johnson?????

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James Jones/Jordy Nelson - To me, Jones seems like the safer bet to inherit the #2 role once Driver is gone, but Nelson has shown nice flashes. Any insight or is this a crapshoot?

As someone that has followed the Packers closely, it still remains murky at best. Both have great size and decent speed.

Jones seems to have shown a little more grit in catching underneath and turning it into something. Nelson seems a little sharper at getting deep and getting over defenders to catch the ball. Much different strengths.

And frankly, I don't think Driver is going anywhere for at least a couple more years.

Driver's contract details from Rotoworld:

5/11/2006: Signed a five-year, $17.026 million contract. The deal included a $2 million signing bonus. Driver had $11 million in "new money" added to the contract on 8/6/2007. 2009: $3.9 million (+ $200,000 roster bonus + $50,000 per-game roster bonuses + $206,000 workout bonus), 2010: $4 million (+ $3 million roster bonus + $206,000 workout bonus = possible "dummy year"), 2011: Free Agent

It's hard for me to envision the Packers paying Driver $7.2M for 2010. Are you expecting that they will extend his contract and rework that 2010 number? Has there been any info on this in the local Packers media?

I picked up Jones earlier this year largely because I thought there was a good chance Driver would be gone via free agency, and was hopeful Jones could move into a starting role opposite Jennings.

ETA: On the subject of Jones vs. Nelson, Jones certainly seemed to show more this year:

Jones 16 games, 63 targets, 32/440/5 receiving (13.8 ypr), 0 fumbles, 74.0 fantasy points

Nelson 13 games, 31 targets, 22/320/2 receiving (14.5 ypr), 3 fumbles, 44.0 fantasy points

Jones' catch percentage isn't very good... my impression was that he got a pretty high number of deep targets, so perhaps that could explain it, but I'm not sure. Aside from that, though, Jones had more than double the targets of Nelson, which was a primary reason I was thinking he might be Driver's replacement if and when Driver is no longer starting for the Packers (for whatever reason).

Edited by Just Win Baby

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Well i'm not buying it. That would make him a first round pick in any startup dynasty draft. Would you seriously build your franchise around Jamal Charles?I would rather have Stewart, Jackson or Gore at this point. I could make a strong case for Williams too and Mendenhall is looking pretty good as well.:goodposting:

It's been a while since Mendenhall has looked pretty good. Over the last half of the season, you could call his performance "serviceable" or "workmanlike" if you were in the mood to be generous.Mendenhall has topped 100 yards three times this season. The first time was his first game against San Diego, back when they had just lost Jamal Williams and their run defense was among the worst in the league. The second time was against Denver, whose run defense has been hemorrhaging for a while now. The third was against Oakland, where he managed 105 yards. In addition, he has a pair of 90 yard games, and 80 yard game... and seven games where he failed to reach 80 yards rushing since he became a starter. In the last 8 games, he's averaged 17.8/66.9/0.375 (3.77 ypc) rushing. As of right now, to me Mendenhall looks more like Forte/Lynch/Moreno/Smith and less like Stewart/Jackson/Gore/Williams.
This is a good bit misleading. Mendenhall's TOTAL yardage since taking over as the starting running back in week 4:Week 4- 191Week 5- 93Week 6- 77Week 7- 68Week 8- BYEWeek 9- 163Week 10- 41Week 11- 116Week 12- 117Week 13- 103Week 14- 70Week 15- 111Week 16- 40Week 17- 120Part of Mendenhall's attractiveness moving forward is his 3 down ability. He doesn't leave the field in passing situations much of the time and appears to be a very capable pass catching back. When taking total yardage into account, he actually surpassed 100 total yards 7 times (with another 93 yard game). Really, he only had 2 off games the entire season (week 10 and week 16, and in one of those weeks he scored a TD).I also believe this is much more Mendenhall's floor than anywhere close to his ceiling. The Steelers curiously became one of the highest passing teams in the league this season, giving Mendenhall less than 20 carries in 7 games since week 4. They also missed the post season after going to this pass happy attack. Something tells me they will re-evaluate that strategy over the off-season and Mendenhall will be a good bet to receive 20 carries on a regular basis next season.
IF the Current OC stays on board in Pitt, they will continue with the Pass/Rush split IMO

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Great thread guys. As good as it gets.Anyone care to weigh in on the following:Jerome Harrison - heavy workload last few weeks, has produced decent numbers. People seem to be all over the map on his value. Jacoby Jones - I've been hanging on to him in several leagues and this year he showed some real signs of progressing (6 TDs). Outperformed Kevin Walter lately - will he take the #2 job next season? James Jones/Jordy Nelson - To me, Jones seems like the safer bet to inherit the #2 role once Driver is gone, but Nelson has shown nice flashes. Any insight or is this a crapshoot?Laurent Robinson - I'm sure I'm in the minority, but I think he could be a Sidney Rice type breakout player in '10. Great talent, bad luck with injuries. Looked very good before going down. If he can stay healthy I think he will be a huge value.

Harrison--value undetermined. He could potentially leave as a free agent, but there aren't many openings out there. If he stays in Cleveland, he'll have shown he deserves the job, but was in Mangini's doghouse as recently as a month ago for what seemed spurious reasons (to fans of Harrison). Plus, it's hard to put a finger on his productivity the last few weeks because Cleveland has no passing offense and didn't even try to pass the ball. Essentially they just gave it to Harrison and said, "ok, let's try to win." And, well, they did. So high yardage, but two weeks of 3.8ypc..which isn't special in a vacuum. I think he can be a full-time starter and has dynamic running skills, but you just can't anticipate him running the ball 30+ times every week in 2010. Personally, I'd say if someone makes you a great offer while his value is semi-high, then take it. Jacoby Jones--He's already valuable in return yardage leagues; I think he's like WR23 in one of mine. He has the potential to breakout, is a great playmaker, and is on an upper-tier offense. Really, he already is sharing the #2 role. His targets have steadily increased to match or exceed Walter's; aside from the SEA game he's had 4-6 targets in every game he's played since Week 9. Walter's always going to get PT as a reliable chain-mover, but Jacoby could have several explosive games. He's a guy I'm looking to buy in the offseason. Jones/Nelson: I agree that James Jones looks like he has the inside track, and has been getting more snaps than Nelson at the moment.Robinson: I think he could be good, and I really like him, but I'm not sure about Rice-like breakout considering the horrible state of the St. Louis Rams.I've been a fan of his talent since his rookie year, but I think the QB situation in StL will limit his production. Depends on who they draft/sign, but right now Boller and Null can't connect on much more than 5-10 yard routes at this point. You also have to wonder how targets will shake out for Avery, Gibson, and Robinson. I'm not the biggest Avery fan, but Gibson showed real potential for a rookie who changed teams midseason and made some eye-opening catches/moves. All three will likely see their share of targets next year, with limited yardage. If Gibson and Robinson both go 5-50 with a touchdown between them, that's great, but it's not exactly elite production, and certainly not at the level of gaudy ypr that Rice is capable of. Definitely hold onto Robinson long-term, though, if you have room.

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James Jones/Jordy Nelson - To me, Jones seems like the safer bet to inherit the #2 role once Driver is gone, but Nelson has shown nice flashes. Any insight or is this a crapshoot?

As someone that has followed the Packers closely, it still remains murky at best. Both have great size and decent speed.

Jones seems to have shown a little more grit in catching underneath and turning it into something. Nelson seems a little sharper at getting deep and getting over defenders to catch the ball. Much different strengths.

And frankly, I don't think Driver is going anywhere for at least a couple more years.

Driver's contract details from Rotoworld:

5/11/2006: Signed a five-year, $17.026 million contract. The deal included a $2 million signing bonus. Driver had $11 million in "new money" added to the contract on 8/6/2007. 2009: $3.9 million (+ $200,000 roster bonus + $50,000 per-game roster bonuses + $206,000 workout bonus), 2010: $4 million (+ $3 million roster bonus + $206,000 workout bonus = possible "dummy year"), 2011: Free Agent

It's hard for me to envision the Packers paying Driver $7.2M for 2010. Are you expecting that they will extend his contract and rework that 2010 number? Has there been any info on this in the local Packers media?

I picked up Jones earlier this year largely because I thought there was a good chance Driver would be gone via free agency, and was hopeful Jones could move into a starting role opposite Jennings.

ETA: On the subject of Jones vs. Nelson, Jones certainly seemed to show more this year:

Jones 16 games, 63 targets, 32/440/5 receiving (13.8 ypr), 0 fumbles, 74.0 fantasy points

Nelson 13 games, 31 targets, 22/320/2 receiving (14.5 ypr), 3 fumbles, 44.0 fantasy points

Jones' catch percentage isn't very good... my impression was that he got a pretty high number of deep targets, so perhaps that could explain it, but I'm not sure. Aside from that, though, Jones had more than double the targets of Nelson, which was a primary reason I was thinking he might be Driver's replacement if and when Driver is no longer starting for the Packers (for whatever reason).

I've been wrong before, but on Driver's contract. Some of it might depend on how the playoffs pan out. However, I firmly believe that Driver will be back at that number for the '10 season. He turned in another 1,000 yard season and led the team in receptions. Despite his age, I don't see how he'd be a cut, especially with how far Green Bay is under the cap.

There was some speculation that Driver wanted a new contract heading into this season. It's possible he gets something worked out in the off season that lowers his '10 number but extends him. Tough to say how it will work out though.

As for Jones, he dropped more passes than I would've liked this year. I still see him as a the over the middle guy with the great yards after catch ability, and Nelson as more of a deep threat.

The rise of Jermichael Finely can not be discounted here either. He will get the ball at the expense of the WRs.

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