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His other 9 carries: 2.6 yards per. Just puttin' it out there . . . :lmao:

Spiller's game log:2-4-IND35 (12:45) C.Spiller left end pushed ob at IND 31 for 4 yards (J.Lacey). 1-10-IND31 (12:20) C.Spiller up the middle for 31 yards, TOUCHDOWN. Cut back to left side after crossing line of scrimmage. Key block: L.Evans 1-10-BUF9 (9:12) C.Spiller right tackle to BUF 9 for no gain (G.Brackett). 1-10-BUF21 (4:43) C.Spiller up the middle to BUF 15 for -6 yards (D.Townsend, R.Mathis). 3-14-BUF17 (3:26) (Shotgun) C.Spiller left tackle to BUF 18 for 1 yard (B.Sanders, J.Lacey). 1-10-BUF27 (1:28) C.Spiller up the middle to BUF 30 for 3 yards (R.Mathis). 1-10-BUF16 (11:49) C.Spiller up the middle to BUF 21 for 5 yards (P.Wheeler). 2-5-BUF21 (11:15) C.Spiller left guard to BUF 33 for 12 yards (B.Sanders, K.Conner). 1-5-BUF38 (10:18) C.Spiller left end to BUF 44 for 6 yards (R.Humber, J.Lacey). 1-10-IND45 (8:25) C.Spiller up the middle to IND 47 for -2 yards (G.Brackett). 3-12-IND47 (7:42) T.Edwards pass short right to C.Spiller to IND 45 for 2 yards (K.Hayden) [A.Bethea]. Dump pass off pressure, caught at IND 47.So...-6, -2, 0, 1, 3, 4, 5, 6, 12, 31(TD)5 out of 10 runs were 4+ yards.... just like most good RBs. It is just preseason, but I cannot see taking this as anything except a positive.
Did anyone else catch the stat that the announcers threw out there? Last year Buffalo led the NFL with percentage of runs that went for 4 or more yards with 48%. And I thought they weren't a good running team SP....Get Spiller while you can....

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Just for giggles:

189 of Chris Johnson's 358 carries went for 3 or fewer yards, not including short TDs. Just about 53% went for under 4 yards.

Just sayin'. :shrug:

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Pretty sure F&L is just :stirspot: with the Spiller thing. Looks like it worked.

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Pretty sure F&L is just :thumbup: with the Spiller thing. Looks like it worked.

Rotoworld mentioned the same thing. I notice neither subtracted Bests longest run when giving his YPC after his first preseason game, coincidence? :wall:

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We can do that for just about any RB on any good game. Surely you're not one of the "but if you take out his longest run" guys, right?

Not at all. But certainly you would acknowledge that many boom-or-bust runners (i.e. Tatum Bell) can't sustain a rushing attack game-in and game-out for 17 weeks even with a high yards per carry number. I'm not saying Spiller is that guy. I like him. I just have questions about how he'll be used at this level.

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F&L... just curious if you're going to update positional rankings again before season starts? Been checking your blog for the last couple months and haven't seen anything since around the draft. Really enjoy your blog BTW.

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Nothing Spiller did last night changed my opinion on him at all.

He's an explosive, play-making back. However, I have yet to see film that makes me think he'll be able to be an every-down running back, be successful in short yardage situations, etc.

He's like Reggie Bush with more speed and less moves.

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Nothing Spiller did last night changed my opinion on him at all.He's an explosive, play-making back. However, I have yet to see film that makes me think he'll be able to be an every-down running back, be successful in short yardage situations, etc.He's like Reggie Bush with more speed and less moves.

It appears that every fast RB around the 200 lb mark gets compared to Bush by people who do not like the player and CJ by those who do.

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Nothing Spiller did last night changed my opinion on him at all.

He's an explosive, play-making back. However, I have yet to see film that makes me think he'll be able to be an every-down running back, be successful in short yardage situations, etc.

He's like Reggie Bush with more speed and less moves.

Did you mean this as a positive? I read it as one.

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Does anyone expect fred jackson too get any work t all? Thanks, I don't follow the bills much but his ago in some places seems criminal unless the expectation is that he will get less them 100 touches.

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Nothing Spiller did last night changed my opinion on him at all.

He's an explosive, play-making back. However, I have yet to see film that makes me think he'll be able to be an every-down running back, be successful in short yardage situations, etc.

He's like Reggie Bush with more speed and less moves.

Did you mean this as a positive? I read it as one.

Exactly, i prefer my RB to not dance in the backfield. If Bush just hit the hole instead of making moves, he might have been Chris Johnson before Chris Johnson was Chris Johnson. :kicksrock:

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Does anyone expect fred jackson too get any work t all? Thanks, I don't follow the bills much but his ago in some places seems criminal unless the expectation is that he will get less them 100 touches.

He will still get plenty of touches, he was the Bills offense last year. There will be alot of touches to go around for both Spiller and Jackson as the are two of the only three offensive weapons on the Bills.

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To be perfectly honest, McFadden is one more disappointing year away from being slapped with the bust label if you ask me. Sure he was a beast coming out of college but he hasn't done anything yet to convince me that he's going to fulfill that potential in the NFL and Bush has looked like the far superior RB in Oak. I don't know why so many people are seemingly high on McFadden when he's done virtually nothing but disappoint his owners for 2 years. In 2 years he's only managed to score 5 TDs (FIVE!!!) and 856 yards on 217 carries with only a single 100 yard game to his name, that's not even 4 yards per carry. He's proven nothing thus far and the only thing he has proven is that he can't stay healthy and lacks good vision. This is a make or break year for McFadden and based on his career thus far, I'm not anticipating anything other than the status quo. Bush is the RB to own for the Raiders.

:lmao: McFadden is worth having on a deep roster but I wouldn't spend more than a 10th or 11th round pick on him. If he doesn't do something really stellar this season he is pretty much washed up. M. Bush is older but he also has a great pedigree and has produced better in the same offense. He is a complete player who can run inside, outside, catch and block. The only thing McFadden does better is catch/run outside and not by that much. Guys who have constant nagging injuries like McFadden has had always seemed to be nicked up--see Michael Bennett.

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Non-ppr toss-up- Finley vs. VJax (1 TE required)? A couple of months ago, this would've been a no-brainer, but with the hype continuing to build over Finley, and the VJax situation looking worse, who would you rather have now?

VJax. Finley's getting a lot of hype because he's a top-3 dynasty TE now (and rightfully so), but nobody mentions that the top 3 dynasty TEs today aren't anywhere near as strong as the top-3 dynasty TEs 3 years ago. I could easily see that particular comparison going either way, but at this stage, I'd rather go with VJax and speculate on some other young TEs, (Keller, Carlson, Miller, etc) than go with Finley and speculate on some other young WRs (Maclin, Wallace, Britt, etc)

Thx guys. For some reason I saw it different and went with Hartline. What specifically are you seeing that makes Robinson's upside so much more than Hartline's?

He's a better player.

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Non-ppr toss-up- Finley vs. VJax (1 TE required)? A couple of months ago, this would've been a no-brainer, but with the hype continuing to build over Finley, and the VJax situation looking worse, who would you rather have now?

VJax. Finley's getting a lot of hype because he's a top-3 dynasty TE now (and rightfully so), but nobody mentions that the top 3 dynasty TEs today aren't anywhere near as strong as the top-3 dynasty TEs 3 years ago. I could easily see that particular comparison going either way, but at this stage, I'd rather go with VJax and speculate on some other young TEs, (Keller, Carlson, Miller, etc) than go with Finley and speculate on some other young WRs (Maclin, Wallace, Britt, etc)
I pretty much assumed this would be your take. Just out of curiosity, has VJax fallen at all in your rankings? I believe you had him 6th, while Finley was your #3 TE. In that scenario, I'd rather have the WR for sure, but I think most have him lower. I'd be interested to see which F&L (and others) would choose- I believe he has Finley #1 and VJax around #10. I've read Seattle and Washington are interested in VJax. Not horrible spots, but neither are as good as SD IMO.

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Non-ppr toss-up- Finley vs. VJax (1 TE required)? A couple of months ago, this would've been a no-brainer, but with the hype continuing to build over Finley, and the VJax situation looking worse, who would you rather have now?

VJax. Finley's getting a lot of hype because he's a top-3 dynasty TE now (and rightfully so), but nobody mentions that the top 3 dynasty TEs today aren't anywhere near as strong as the top-3 dynasty TEs 3 years ago. I could easily see that particular comparison going either way, but at this stage, I'd rather go with VJax and speculate on some other young TEs, (Keller, Carlson, Miller, etc) than go with Finley and speculate on some other young WRs (Maclin, Wallace, Britt, etc)
I pretty much assumed this would be your take. Just out of curiosity, has VJax fallen at all in your rankings? I believe you had him 6th, while Finley was your #3 TE. In that scenario, I'd rather have the WR for sure, but I think most have him lower. I'd be interested to see which F&L (and others) would choose- I believe he has Finley #1 and VJax around #10. I've read Seattle and Washington are interested in VJax. Not horrible spots, but neither are as good as SD IMO.
I'd rather have V-Jax for the same reasons SSOG stated above.ETA: I think Washington is as good, if not better, of a situation than San Diego for V-Jax. McNabb is a very good QB. Edited by GreatLakesMike

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Non-ppr toss-up- Finley vs. VJax (1 TE required)?

A couple of months ago, this would've been a no-brainer, but with the hype continuing to build over Finley, and the VJax situation looking worse, who would you rather have now?

VJax. Finley's getting a lot of hype because he's a top-3 dynasty TE now (and rightfully so), but nobody mentions that the top 3 dynasty TEs today aren't anywhere near as strong as the top-3 dynasty TEs 3 years ago. I could easily see that particular comparison going either way, but at this stage, I'd rather go with VJax and speculate on some other young TEs, (Keller, Carlson, Miller, etc) than go with Finley and speculate on some other young WRs (Maclin, Wallace, Britt, etc)
I pretty much assumed this would be your take. Just out of curiosity, has VJax fallen at all in your rankings? I believe you had him 6th, while Finley was your #3 TE. In that scenario, I'd rather have the WR for sure, but I think most have him lower. I'd be interested to see which F&L (and others) would choose- I believe he has Finley #1 and VJax around #10.

I've read Seattle and Washington are interested in VJax. Not horrible spots, but neither are as good as SD IMO.

I'd rather have V-Jax for the same reasons SSOG stated above.

ETA: I think Washington is as good, if not better, of a situation than San Diego for V-Jax. McNabb is a very good QB.

Short term it might be a wash, but in a dynasty, you have to factor in age, and McNabb is much older. Still a long ways away from being a Redskin in any event.

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:missing:

Both the San Diego Union-Tribune and Seattle Times confirm that the Seahawks have indeed held contract-related conversations with unsigned Chargers restricted free agent Vincent Jackson.

A league source tells the Union-Trib that the sides have been in talks for "at least several days." "Nothing is considered imminent," according to the Seattle paper, though the Seahawks do have plenty of time to orchestrate a deal with Jackson suspended for the first three games of the regular season.

Source: San Diego Union-Tribune

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpag...NFL&id=3202

Edited by GreatLakesMike

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:missing:

Both the San Diego Union-Tribune and Seattle Times confirm that the Seahawks have indeed held contract-related conversations with unsigned Chargers restricted free agent Vincent Jackson.

A league source tells the Union-Trib that the sides have been in talks for "at least several days." "Nothing is considered imminent," according to the Seattle paper, though the Seahawks do have plenty of time to orchestrate a deal with Jackson suspended for the first three games of the regular season.

Source: San Diego Union-Tribune

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpag...NFL&id=3202

I think it mutes his value some going to Seattle. I don't understand how people can think otherwise.

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:thumbup:

Both the San Diego Union-Tribune and Seattle Times confirm that the Seahawks have indeed held contract-related conversations with unsigned Chargers restricted free agent Vincent Jackson.

A league source tells the Union-Trib that the sides have been in talks for "at least several days." "Nothing is considered imminent," according to the Seattle paper, though the Seahawks do have plenty of time to orchestrate a deal with Jackson suspended for the first three games of the regular season.

Source: San Diego Union-Tribune

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpag...NFL&id=3202

I think it mutes his value some going to Seattle. I don't understand how people can think otherwise.
Compared to 2009, yes. Compared to sitting out most of 2010, not so much.

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:thumbup:

Both the San Diego Union-Tribune and Seattle Times confirm that the Seahawks have indeed held contract-related conversations with unsigned Chargers restricted free agent Vincent Jackson.

A league source tells the Union-Trib that the sides have been in talks for "at least several days." "Nothing is considered imminent," according to the Seattle paper, though the Seahawks do have plenty of time to orchestrate a deal with Jackson suspended for the first three games of the regular season.

Source: San Diego Union-Tribune

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpag...NFL&id=3202

I think it mutes his value some going to Seattle. I don't understand how people can think otherwise.
Compared to 2009, yes. Compared to sitting out most of 2010, not so much.
Also consider that Norv Turner is an idiot who thinks that running the ball is more important than getting the ball into your stud WR's hands.

ETA: If San Diego is willing to let Seattle negotiate with V-Jax, then that just means that other teams will be popping into the picture soon.

Edited by GreatLakesMike

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Non-ppr toss-up- Finley vs. VJax (1 TE required)?

A couple of months ago, this would've been a no-brainer, but with the hype continuing to build over Finley, and the VJax situation looking worse, who would you rather have now?

VJax. Finley's getting a lot of hype because he's a top-3 dynasty TE now (and rightfully so), but nobody mentions that the top 3 dynasty TEs today aren't anywhere near as strong as the top-3 dynasty TEs 3 years ago. I could easily see that particular comparison going either way, but at this stage, I'd rather go with VJax and speculate on some other young TEs, (Keller, Carlson, Miller, etc) than go with Finley and speculate on some other young WRs (Maclin, Wallace, Britt, etc)
I pretty much assumed this would be your take. Just out of curiosity, has VJax fallen at all in your rankings? I believe you had him 6th, while Finley was your #3 TE. In that scenario, I'd rather have the WR for sure, but I think most have him lower. I'd be interested to see which F&L (and others) would choose- I believe he has Finley #1 and VJax around #10.

I've read Seattle and Washington are interested in VJax. Not horrible spots, but neither are as good as SD IMO.

VJax was 4th in my rankings last season. This offseason stuff has dropped him down to 6th. He would have dropped lower, but I'm still not entirely convinced that he's missing this season- I think there's still a very good chance a trade gets worked out (as today's news about Seattle negotiating a deal with him demonstrates). If the season approaches and it looks more and more likely that VJax will miss the year (or most of it), he'll slide down my rankings to somewhere in the 8-10 range.

:yes:

Both the San Diego Union-Tribune and Seattle Times confirm that the Seahawks have indeed held contract-related conversations with unsigned Chargers restricted free agent Vincent Jackson.

A league source tells the Union-Trib that the sides have been in talks for "at least several days." "Nothing is considered imminent," according to the Seattle paper, though the Seahawks do have plenty of time to orchestrate a deal with Jackson suspended for the first three games of the regular season.

Source: San Diego Union-Tribune

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpag...NFL&id=3202

I think it mutes his value some going to Seattle. I don't understand how people can think otherwise.
Seattle's a downgrade, although not a huge one (major hit on efficiency stats, but I think Jackson would be a massive target hog in Seattle). Washington, in my mind, would represent an upgrade over San Diego- I would love to see Mike Shanahan with a toy like VJax to play with. Say what you want about Shanahan, but I firmly believe he's the best offensive mind in the game today.

If VJax gets traded to Seattle, he'll slide down a couple spots in my rankings. If he gets traded to Washington, he move back up to the #4 spot.

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By the way, proving that I'm once again the last person to adopt any piece of technology, I'm now on Twitter as AdamHarstad. Feel free to pester me with player thoughts or gloat about all my incorrect predictions in real time. I pretty much have no idea what I'm doing, so it should be interesting.

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Seattle's a downgrade, although not a huge one (major hit on efficiency stats, but I think Jackson would be a massive target hog in Seattle). Washington, in my mind, would represent an upgrade over San Diego- I would love to see Mike Shanahan with a toy like VJax to play with. Say what you want about Shanahan, but I firmly believe he's the best offensive mind in the game today.

If VJax gets traded to Seattle, he'll slide down a couple spots in my rankings. If he gets traded to Washington, he move back up to the #4 spot.

I agree he could see much higher reception totals in Seattle. Considering TJ Housh got 79 and Burleson prorated to 77 or so, 85 to 90 might be attainable for VJax. The TD totals probably have to go down, and the YPR would be less. Possible Whitehurst reunion! I'm sure he practiced with the SD 3rd team once or never. Whitehurst does offer some potential here as he has a big arm.

Washington would be a very similar situation to SD. His reception and TD numbers wouldn't be much different. He'd maintain his lofty YPR total, as it plays to McNabb's strengths. The risk from a dynasty perspective is whether McNabb stays or goes to Minnesota.

Edited by thriftyrocker

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This is the part that I don't really agree with- yes, McNabb is a good QB, but we're talking dynasty here- a part of the attaction towards VJax was that not long ago, it looked like he was going to have the Rivers/Turner connections for quite a while. If he moves to Seattle or Washington, he'll probably have 1 or 2 years of a lesser QB, then who knows what from there? That combined with the off-field stuff drops him down more than 2 spots for me (and I had him lower than 4 to begin with). I mean, are we really getting excited about a possible Whitehurst reunion?

Anything is possible, but how could you project him for that many receptions in Seattle? Sure, TJ had 79, but that was a lot less than he was used to (90+ the last 3 seasons, including 112 two years prior). VJax has never had 70 in a season.

Maybe it's just me, but I think leaving San Diego is more of a negative (assuming he doesn't go to one of the few better situations) than most.

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I mean, are we really getting excited about a possible Whitehurst reunion?

No. No, we're not.

Anything is possible, but how could you project him for that many receptions in Seattle? Sure, TJ had 79, but that was a lot less than he was used to (90+ the last 3 seasons, including 112 two years prior). VJax has never had 70 in a season.

TJ was playing with a sports hernia and didn't have Chad 85 on the other side and still managed 79.

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I mean, are we really getting excited about a possible Whitehurst reunion?

No. No, we're not.

Anything is possible, but how could you project him for that many receptions in Seattle? Sure, TJ had 79, but that was a lot less than he was used to (90+ the last 3 seasons, including 112 two years prior). VJax has never had 70 in a season.

TJ was playing with a sports hernia and didn't have Chad 85 on the other side and still managed 79.
That's my point- going from Rivers to either McNabb/who knows or Hasselbeck/Whitehurst/who knows can't be as good, nevermind better.That's fine about TJ's issues, but it's still a lot less than he was getting. You're projecting VJax to get a lot MORE than he's ever gotten. I just don't see how saying Housh had a bigtime reduction in receptions helps the argument that VJax will have a bigtime increase.

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This is the part that I don't really agree with- yes, McNabb is a good QB, but we're talking dynasty here- a part of the attaction towards VJax was that not long ago, it looked like he was going to have the Rivers/Turner connections for quite a while. If he moves to Seattle or Washington, he'll probably have 1 or 2 years of a lesser QB, then who knows what from there? That combined with the off-field stuff drops him down more than 2 spots for me (and I had him lower than 4 to begin with). I mean, are we really getting excited about a possible Whitehurst reunion?Anything is possible, but how could you project him for that many receptions in Seattle? Sure, TJ had 79, but that was a lot less than he was used to (90+ the last 3 seasons, including 112 two years prior). VJax has never had 70 in a season.Maybe it's just me, but I think leaving San Diego is more of a negative (assuming he doesn't go to one of the few better situations) than most.

I'm not focused on McNabb. I'm focused on Mike Shanahan. Mike Shanahan is, for my money, the best offensive mind in all of football, and I think if he was given a weapon like Vincent Jackson, he would bludgeon the entire league into submission with it. Take shots at his track record on defense, or even take shots at his track record as a GM (for my money, I think most of the criticism he receives in that department is unwarranted), but don't tell me Mike Shanahan doesn't know how to get the best out of his offensive players. Look what he did with Rod Smith, Ed McCaffrey, Shannon Sharpe, Javon Walker, Brandon Marshall, John Elway, Brian Griese, Jake Plummer, Terrell Davis, Olandis Gary, Mike Anderson, Clinton Portis, Reuben Droughns, and so on, and so forth. Hell, even Ashley Lelie and Tatum Bell had 1,000 yard seasons in Denver.As for how I could project VJax for a ton of receptions in Seattle... it's a money thing. Anyone who gets VJax is going to have to pay him like one of the top 3 receivers in the NFL. Anyone who is paying VJax like one of the top 3 receivers in the NFL is going to have to get him the damn ball in order to justify the expense. Regardless of where VJax goes, if they meet his contract demands, they're going to be shoving the ball down his throat so early and so often that he chokes on it. If they don't plan on force-feeding him the ball, then why would they spend premium draft picks and major money to acquire him? If you're just looking for a vehicle to get groceries in, you buy a station wagon, not a Ferrari. If you buy a Ferrari, it's because you plan on breaking some laws on back-country roads.

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That's my point- going from Rivers to either McNabb/who knows or Hasselbeck/Whitehurst/who knows can't be as good, nevermind better.That's fine about TJ's issues, but it's still a lot less than he was getting. You're projecting VJax to get a lot MORE than he's ever gotten. I just don't see how saying Housh had a bigtime reduction in receptions helps the argument that VJax will have a bigtime increase.

Elite WRs can get numbers with a marginally capable QB. I think even Whitehurst qualifies as that, but certainly Hasselbeck and McNabb do.I think there are a lot of reasons why VJax's reception total is low. 1) Rivers is very efficient throwing the ball downfield. He doesn't need to complete a lot of passes to win the game. 2) Gates. 3) The team has generally been good and been able to build and maintain leads.Seattle is a different situation. 1) WCO. 2) Carlson is the next best receiving option. 3) Seattle is on a downturn and played from behind a lot last year.I think VJax is capable of 85-90 receptions. I don't think he has the ego to demand it. I don't think SD has ever challenged him to do so. Playing on a bad-to-middling Seahawks team could change that. (It could also break him, but that's another subject.)Washington is closer to SD because McNabb's game is throwing the ball downfield and checking down to TE and RB if that's not available. He is reluctant to throw into tight coverage, which would make it hard for VJax's target rate to go up.

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Would you really be shocked if Bradshaw led the teams in carries and yards in 2010? Im not saying i will definately be right, but im not "kidding myself".

Yes, I would be very surprised. It would mean a serious Jacobs injury, and even then I think Bradshaw would be a timeshare back with Andre Brown or Danny Ware.

Jacobs is the clear lead back here. The Giants coaches know he played injured last year. They didn't give him a 4-year, $25M contract to carry Ahmad Bradshaw's golf clubs.

There was a lot of great discussion about Bradshaw and Jacobs around June. It's probably time to revisit this given Bradshaw started the first preseason game and there's an implication he'll continue to start. There's innuendo that Jacobs will be limited to 10-12 carries a game to maintain his effectiveness. It seems to me Bradshaw is moving closer to Pierre Thomas territory - talented back who will lead a committee. Jacobs might fall off the cliff as fast as Deuce did.

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Washington is closer to SD because McNabb's game is throwing the ball downfield and checking down to TE and RB if that's not available. He is reluctant to throw into tight coverage, which would make it hard for VJax's target rate to go up.

At the end of the day, even though they're obscenely rich, NFL owners still value their money. I don't think even Dan Snyder would sit idly by if he paid $10 million a year to a receiver only to see him finish 26th in the NFL in targets. Whoever pays VJax will target VJax.

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There was a lot of great discussion about Bradshaw and Jacobs around June. It's probably time to revisit this given Bradshaw started the first preseason game and there's an implication he'll continue to start. There's innuendo that Jacobs will be limited to 10-12 carries a game to maintain his effectiveness. It seems to me Bradshaw is moving closer to Pierre Thomas territory - talented back who will lead a committee.

Jacobs might fall off the cliff as fast as Deuce did.

I'm definitely coming around to this line of thinking. I wouldn't put him as high as Pierre Thomas (Thomas has been ridiculously effective with his limited touches), but I don't think a bump up the rankings is out of order.

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Is it too soon to try and buy low on Harvin? :hot:

Harvin seems like a great target to me, and now is as good as any time to try to get him. Barring another hospital trip(or something like that) I doubt his value will go down and it could go up a ton if/when he starts producing as the Vikes #1 WR.

Honestly, I'm much more worried about Rice's hip than Harvin's migraines, and would prefer Harvin to Rice, but then again I've been a Harvin fan since his Gator days so its possible that I'm a tad biased.

There was a lot of great discussion about Bradshaw and Jacobs around June. It's probably time to revisit this given Bradshaw started the first preseason game and there's an implication he'll continue to start. There's innuendo that Jacobs will be limited to 10-12 carries a game to maintain his effectiveness. It seems to me Bradshaw is moving closer to Pierre Thomas territory - talented back who will lead a committee.

Jacobs might fall off the cliff as fast as Deuce did.

I'm definitely coming around to this line of thinking. I wouldn't put him as high as Pierre Thomas (Thomas has been ridiculously effective with his limited touches), but I don't think a bump up the rankings is out of order.
Pretty much agree with SSOG here. Bradshaw is the Giants RB I'd want if I had to have one. I like Bradshaw as a great flex option this year, and I think if he can stay healthy he could be a very good RB2. So yeah, kinda like a lesser Pierre Thomas.

I don't think Jacobs will fall as fast as Deuce did, but I do think his time as a consistent fantasy starter is over. He could still be good if Bradshaw continues to have injury issues, but assuming good health for both, Jacobs looks like a vulture and a change of pace guy to me. Dare I say the TJ Duckett to Bradshaw's Warrick Dunn.

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Anyone who gets VJax is going to have to pay him like one of the top 3 receivers in the NFL. Anyone who is paying VJax like one of the top 3 receivers in the NFL is going to have to get him the damn ball in order to justify the expense. Regardless of where VJax goes, if they meet his contract demands, they're going to be shoving the ball down his throat so early and so often that he chokes on it. If they don't plan on force-feeding him the ball, then why would they spend premium draft picks and major money to acquire him?

They could throw to him like a normal #1 WR and he would still be worth the expense. His presence would open up things for the rest of the offense. The benefit of having a very good WR doesn't rest solely in their receiving.

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Vjax is getting cheaper and cheaper to owners who are getting desperate and worried that he'll miss the season.

I just traded Ahmad Bradshaw for VJ in a non-ppr league. I could afford it, as I am loaded at RB.

I'm trying to get him in all 3 of my leagues, and I have so far succeeded in 2.

It's incredibly rare to see a player miss the season. Every year we hear about people who will sit out the year and they never do.

Revis, McNeil and Jackson will all play this year. The Seattle trade news probably ended my chances to get VJ in the third league as now owners will hold on tight and wait it out.

But if you can still get him I say go for it.

And I echo the words earlier in this thread...I can't imagine what Shanahan would do with VJ. It would be a best-case scenario for VJ owners.

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Seattle's a downgrade, although not a huge one (major hit on efficiency stats, but I think Jackson would be a massive target hog in Seattle). Washington, in my mind, would represent an upgrade over San Diego- I would love to see Mike Shanahan with a toy like VJax to play with. Say what you want about Shanahan, but I firmly believe he's the best offensive mind in the game today.If VJax gets traded to Seattle, he'll slide down a couple spots in my rankings. If he gets traded to Washington, he move back up to the #4 spot.

Seattle and Washington present a somewhat interesting question - at least to me, anyway. Obviously Seattle isn't the offensive juggernaut that San Diego is, but the thing that scares me more about Seattle is the fact that Hasselback is wearing down. This may be his last season as a starter, if he even makes it through the season. All reports on Whitehurst so far aren't positive at all. Does uncertainty at the QB position scare you? We've seen what happened to Lee Evans who has spent his entire career with QBs that can't utilize his talent. Washington presents a better short term situation than Seattle does, but we don't know if McNabb will even be back next year.I paid a premium price for Jackson before this hold out stuff, and I did so not only because I believe he's an elite talent, but his situation looked stable for at least the entire prime of his career. I would much rather lose a season of him and have him work out his differences with San Diego than see him go to Seattle and only miss six games.

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Is it too soon to try and buy low on Harvin? :unsure:

I am thinking that the guy to buy now is Berrian. He doesn't have a lot of perceived long term value and will never be a fantasy WR1, but, if you are wanting to compete this year and need one more WR to plug into WR2 or WR3 slot, then he is looking valuable. I think Rice's injury is serious and Harvin's migraines are also not going away. Berrian stands to have a good season with Favre back.

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All reports on Whitehurst so far aren't positive at all.....

Except how he did in an actual game. He was a breath of fresh air compared to Hasselbeck in the first preseason game. Even if you count his 50+ yd TD pass to Mike X. Williams as a bit of a fluke, he had another TD drive and moved the team. He's not Schaub, but he might not be Derek Anderson either. Somewhere between the two. Maybe closer to Anderson, but maybe good enough to be productive for fantasy. F&L called him garbage, but I'm reserving judgment for a little while at least.

I would much rather lose a season of him and have him work out his differences with San Diego than see him go to Seattle and only miss six games.

I think it'd only be 3 games. He gets 3 from the NFL and Chargers are threatening 3 extra. But Seattle wouldn't want to suspend a guy they just paid a lot of money.

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All reports on Whitehurst so far aren't positive at all.....

Except how he did in an actual game. He was a breath of fresh air compared to Hasselbeck in the first preseason game. Even if you count his 50+ yd TD pass to Mike X. Williams as a bit of a fluke, he had another TD drive and moved the team. He's not Schaub, but he might not be Derek Anderson either. Somewhere between the two. Maybe closer to Anderson, but maybe good enough to be productive for fantasy. F&L called him garbage, but I'm reserving judgment for a little while at least.

I would much rather lose a season of him and have him work out his differences with San Diego than see him go to Seattle and only miss six games.

I think it'd only be 3 games. He gets 3 from the NFL and Chargers are threatening 3 extra. But Seattle wouldn't want to suspend a guy they just paid a lot of money.
Re: Whitehurst - Fair enough, I haven't been following the situation very closely.I thought I read that if he gets suspended by the Chargers it still holds up if he's traded. Could be wrong on that, though.

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Looks like Seattle is balking at his price anyhow.

Personally, I think his value is highest if he stays in SD, which is a real longshot at this point. He's familiar with the system and players, and has Rivers and Turner to work with. I like Shanny as well, but it's not like that Elway guy was a slouch- there's only so much magic he can work if Washington doesn't replace McNabb with a good QB, and that's assuming Shanny stays long term.

The San Diego is one of the best situations for him in the entire NFL, and it would be the most stable (if he signed long term). Most other situations wouldn't be as good nor as stable IMO. Uncertainty hurts his value, especially when he's yet to reach that elite status that many people expect him too.

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Nothing Spiller did last night changed my opinion on him at all.

He's an explosive, play-making back. However, I have yet to see film that makes me think he'll be able to be an every-down running back, be successful in short yardage situations, etc.

He's like Reggie Bush with more speed and less moves.

Did you mean this as a positive? I read it as one.

Exactly, i prefer my RB to not dance in the backfield. If Bush just hit the hole instead of making moves, he might have been Chris Johnson before Chris Johnson was Chris Johnson. :blackdot:

I was listening to a Podcast yesterday where Greg Cosell, Adam Caplan and John Hansen were breaking down the running styles of ADP and Chris Johnson and they were commenting that ADP could be a more effective runner if he exhibited more patience (a la Chris Johnson) in letting the O-Line develop the running lanes a bit more rather than running up their backs and being the physical/violent runner that he is. So is Bush's problem not seeing the holes that develop, not having the patience to let the holes develop or some combination there of? Lawrence Maroney seems to have a similar issue (maybe many ineffective but physically talented runners fall into this category); he just isn't an instinctive runner. It's dancing when you don't see the hole; there needs to be an economy of motion.

Are runners like these more effective with an increase in carries just because their odds of being effective increase based on the luck of the draw; they "luck" their way into hitting the hole?

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Looks like Seattle is balking at his price anyhow.Personally, I think his value is highest if he stays in SD, which is a real longshot at this point. He's familiar with the system and players, and has Rivers and Turner to work with. I like Shanny as well, but it's not like that Elway guy was a slouch- there's only so much magic he can work if Washington doesn't replace McNabb with a good QB, and that's assuming Shanny stays long term.The San Diego is one of the best situations for him in the entire NFL, and it would be the most stable (if he signed long term). Most other situations wouldn't be as good nor as stable IMO. Uncertainty hurts his value, especially when he's yet to reach that elite status that many people expect him too.

:lmao: I think he takes a big time tumble if he leaves SD. Him and Rivers have spent a ton of time together (not to mention there's little question of the talent disparity of Rivers & whatever Seattle comes up with). Move to Seattle, you have the unfamiliarity now with Hasselback & the unfamiliarity with whomever is the future QB there.PPR: Jackson moves in the neighborhood of WR20-25 for me going to Seattle.

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PPR: Jackson moves in the neighborhood of WR20-25 for me going to Seattle.

REALLY? That's Mike Sims-Walker, Wes Welker, Mike Wallace territory. You'd really drop Jackson that far if he went to Seattle?

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PPR: Jackson moves in the neighborhood of WR20-25 for me going to Seattle.

REALLY? That's Mike Sims-Walker, Wes Welker, Mike Wallace territory. You'd really drop Jackson that far if he went to Seattle?
Yeah, that's preposterous. V-Jax would miss Rivers, but his targets would jump significantly. I'd rather see him in D.C., but Seattle is fine.

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Serious question... if you guys were the Las Vegas sports book, what would you set the over/under on VJax's targets per game if he went to Seattle? He averaged 7.1 last year as a Bolt (114 per 16 games). Would you put the o/u at 8 targets per game (128 per 16)? 9 targets per game (144 per 16)? 9.5 (152 per 16)? 8.5 (136 per 16)? What do you think would be a good over/under for this season, and additionally, what do you think would be a good over/under for next season?

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Its not an assumption to know that Foster is barely talented enough to be in the NFL. People who are making it a conversation are guys hoping Foster is starting material, not guys who think he is.

i just dont think he will ever be a starting NFL RB. He certainly is not worth a 7th round pick or first round rookie pick either.

:thumbup:

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Nothing Spiller did last night changed my opinion on him at all.

He's an explosive, play-making back. However, I have yet to see film that makes me think he'll be able to be an every-down running back, be successful in short yardage situations, etc.

He's like Reggie Bush with more speed and less moves.

Did you mean this as a positive? I read it as one.

Exactly, i prefer my RB to not dance in the backfield. If Bush just hit the hole instead of making moves, he might have been Chris Johnson before Chris Johnson was Chris Johnson. :popcorn:

I was listening to a Podcast yesterday where Greg Cosell, Adam Caplan and John Hansen were breaking down the running styles of ADP and Chris Johnson and they were commenting that ADP could be a more effective runner if he exhibited more patience (a la Chris Johnson) in letting the O-Line develop the running lanes a bit more rather than running up their backs and being the physical/violent runner that he is. So is Bush's problem not seeing the holes that develop, not having the patience to let the holes develop or some combination there of? Lawrence Maroney seems to have a similar issue (maybe many ineffective but physically talented runners fall into this category); he just isn't an instinctive runner. It's dancing when you don't see the hole; there needs to be an economy of motion.

Are runners like these more effective with an increase in carries just because their odds of being effective increase based on the luck of the draw; they "luck" their way into hitting the hole?

The televised film/coaching session (NFLN behind the scenes segment) between Vikings RBs Coach Eric Bienemy and Adrian Peterson was what revealed this info about Peterson (lacking the patience of CJ2k). This film session was great coaching and priceless video for fans and other coaches (at all levels).

I do believe that patience for a runner is a trait that can be learned, and the process is accelerated when a RB has great, natural instincts. A guy like Peterson may never be the most patient runner, but I feel he is dedicated, as well as astute, enough to develop more patience in his game to allow him to improve.........also, if he learns to not absorb so many hits, it can extend his career, or at least give him a few more highly productive seasons as opposed to limiting his window of high productivity with the way he currently is wearing his body down with his running style.

On to Reggie Bush.....I believe that people will be quite surprised at how well Bush runs moving forward for the rest of his career. Based on what I observed late last season and in the playoffs last year, the "light" has somehow turned on and the results, on his limited number of carries, will be much different than his previous NFL years

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