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Not sure I can ask this question here but I will give it a try since this is where the best of the best hang out when talking about the value of the players in dynasty leagues.

Would you do this trade based on where you rank these players for now and the future ?

This is what I would get

Tony Gonzalez TE, ATL

Ricky Williams RB, MIA

Braylon Edwards WR, NYJ

Maurice Jones-Drew RB, JAC

Marques Colston WR, NOR

2011 Draft, Rnd 1 (My pick back)

This is what he wants from me

Vincent Jackson WR, SDG

Jonathan Stewart RB, CAR

Dez Bryant WR, DAL

2011 Draft, Rnd 1 (His pick back)

It comes down to trying to win the title now and getting Drew and Colston at the expensive of giving up 3 potential superstars.

I have zero chance to win this year with no trade but I might have a great chance to win for the next 5 years without a trade.

I am leaning toward no on this...thoughts by anyone is appreciated.

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Where does Lynch move on the dynasty scale now?

Was just going to ask this.I drafted him this summer in a start up dynasty with huge rosters, solely on the speculation that this was going to happen b/t this last off-season and next. Thankfully, I hit pay dirt early, and have now been hit with multiple trade offers, but nothing blows any wind up my skirt.I honestly do not know how to value the guy.Pros:1) Young - he's only 242) Above avg talent3) Former Pro Bowler4) Now plays in a horrible division against teams which are all in the bottom half of the league in yds/game in rushing5) Is a "bell cow" type backCons:1) He's a head case2) He's a head case3) He couldnt keep Fred Freakin' Jackson on the bench4) Sea's passing game isnt exactly stretching the field5) Sea's Oline doesnt exactly put opposing defenses on their backs (23rd in the league in ypc)I think he obviously gets a nice bump, but how much?

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Not sure I can ask this question here but I will give it a try since this is where the best of the best hang out when talking about the value of the players in dynasty leagues.Would you do this trade based on where you rank these players for now and the future ?This is what I would getTony Gonzalez TE, ATL Ricky Williams RB, MIA Braylon Edwards WR, NYJ Maurice Jones-Drew RB, JAC Marques Colston WR, NOR 2011 Draft, Rnd 1 (My pick back)This is what he wants from meVincent Jackson WR, SDG Jonathan Stewart RB, CAR Dez Bryant WR, DAL 2011 Draft, Rnd 1 (His pick back)It comes down to trying to win the title now and getting Drew and Colston at the expensive of giving up 3 potential superstars.I have zero chance to win this year with no trade but I might have a great chance to win for the next 5 years without a trade.I am leaning toward no on this...thoughts by anyone is appreciated.

The only way I'd do that deal is if I knew I only had 6 months to live. And then I'd have to think about it......

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No doubt Foster was a good find. On the other hand, Steve Slaton and Derrick Ward both averaged well over 6 YPC in yesterday's game for Houston.Pretty much any back can look decent in Houston's system. Even Ron Dayne and Ryan Moats had their moments.

Still trotting out this line, eh? Foster is the real deal.
What part of EBF's statement do you disagree with? Heaven forbid someone has a different opinion than yours. Foster may end up being the man in Houston for years to come, but it is far from a sure thing.As long as Kubiak is in Houston, two things are likely to be the case. Houston will have a good running game, and no RB's job is safe.
Why do you insist on making predictions on this backfield? The opposite of everything you've predicted has come to fruition so far. You're a beaten man on this subject.

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No doubt Foster was a good find. On the other hand, Steve Slaton and Derrick Ward both averaged well over 6 YPC in yesterday's game for Houston.Pretty much any back can look decent in Houston's system. Even Ron Dayne and Ryan Moats had their moments.

Still trotting out this line, eh? Foster is the real deal.
What part of EBF's statement do you disagree with? Heaven forbid someone has a different opinion than yours. Foster may end up being the man in Houston for years to come, but it is far from a sure thing.As long as Kubiak is in Houston, two things are likely to be the case. Houston will have a good running game, and no RB's job is safe.
Why do you insist on making predictions on this backfield? The opposite of everything you've predicted has come to fruition so far. You're a beaten man on this subject.
What have i predicted that has been wrong? Plus, even if i have been, does that mean i can no longer comment on the situation? Are you done making predictions on the Giants backfield?

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Would you move McCoy for Rice straight up?

As fast as I physically could, and all the while I'd be cursing the limitations of my human reflexes for preventing me from accepting even faster still.

Ahhh, so you play with retaards. THAT explains a LOT!

I don't know why I bother viewing your posts. I put you on ignore for a reason, but curiosity keeps getting the better of me and I keep clicking "view post" to see what nonsense you're going on about this time. Luckily, most of the time you're just doing your best to remind me why I had you on ignore in the first place. It's good to know I'm not ever going to be tempted to take you off ignore any time soon.I'd ask if you had anything to contribute to the discussion, but... well, it honestly doesn't matter, since I won't wind up reading it anyway.

What part of EBF's statement do you disagree with? Heaven forbid someone has a different opinion than yours. Foster may end up being the man in Houston for years to come, but it is far from a sure thing.As long as Kubiak is in Houston, two things are likely to be the case. Houston will have a good running game, and no RB's job is safe.

At this point, it's a sure thing. I'm pretty familiar with Koobs, and he's not the kind of coach who's always looking to shuffle the deck chairs. If he winds up shuffling the deck chairs a lot, it's because he's looking for a cornerstone back. Now that he's found one, he's going to be content riding him for the next several years, just like he was content riding Terrell Davis, just like he was content riding Clinton Portis, even like he was content riding Mike Anderson.

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Would you move McCoy for Rice straight up?

As fast as I physically could, and all the while I'd be cursing the limitations of my human reflexes for preventing me from accepting even faster still.

Ahhh, so you play with retaards. THAT explains a LOT!

I don't know why I bother viewing your posts. I put you on ignore for a reason, but curiosity keeps getting the better of me and I keep clicking "view post" to see what nonsense you're going on about this time. Luckily, most of the time you're just doing your best to remind me why I had you on ignore in the first place. It's good to know I'm not ever going to be tempted to take you off ignore any time soon.

I'd ask if you had anything to contribute to the discussion, but... well, it honestly doesn't matter, since I won't wind up reading it anyway.

What part of EBF's statement do you disagree with? Heaven forbid someone has a different opinion than yours. Foster may end up being the man in Houston for years to come, but it is far from a sure thing.

As long as Kubiak is in Houston, two things are likely to be the case. Houston will have a good running game, and no RB's job is safe.

At this point, it's a sure thing. I'm pretty familiar with Koobs, and he's not the kind of coach who's always looking to shuffle the deck chairs. If he winds up shuffling the deck chairs a lot, it's because he's looking for a cornerstone back. Now that he's found one, he's going to be content riding him for the next several years, just like he was content riding Terrell Davis, just like he was content riding Clinton Portis, even like he was content riding Mike Anderson.

Of those 3, only Davis had more than two good fantasy seasons for a Kubiak team.

I guess our biggest disagreement comes in is Foster being a sure thing. I dont thing anything in football is a sure thing, especially a undrafted Texans Rb with only a handful of good games under his belt. Of course i wont say that it is a sure thing he is going to be a bust either. I just dont think Foster is an elite talent, so i dont trust his long term value.

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Of those 3, only Davis had more than two good fantasy seasons for a Kubiak team.I guess our biggest disagreement comes in is Foster being a sure thing. I dont thing anything in football is a sure thing, especially a undrafted Texans Rb with only a handful of good games under his belt. Of course i wont say that it is a sure thing he is going to be a bust either. I just dont think Foster is an elite talent, so i dont trust his long term value.

Clinton Portis has 6 career top-12 finishes. Had he not been traded, he would have been putting those up for Gary Kubiak. Seeing as Gary Kubiak had absolutely nothing to do with the decision to trade Clinton Portis, I don't know what bearing the fact that Portis got traded has to do with Arian Foster. Even if you think Kubiak had some sway over the Portis trade... great, so what? Are you saying that you're worried Houston might decide to trade away Arian Foster, if they can only get Nnamdi Asomugha or Darrell Revis (and a second round draft pick to boot!) in return?There's no such thing as a sure thing, but that's completely irrelevant when compiling rankings, because you're ranking a player against his peers. Sure, Foster might not be a 100% lock... but none of his peers are 100% locks, either. Not even Chris Johnson or Adrian Peterson. Is Arian Foster's future any more uncertain than most of the other backs in the league? No. In fact, I'd argue that it's significantly less uncertain than most other RBs in the league.Arian Foster isn't an elite talent, but I count 8 elite talents in the league, and three of them are 27 years old. After that, who are you going to rank above Foster? I guess I just don't see the difference between, say, Arian Foster and Rashard Mendenhall at this point.

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Of those 3, only Davis had more than two good fantasy seasons for a Kubiak team.

I guess our biggest disagreement comes in is Foster being a sure thing. I dont thing anything in football is a sure thing, especially a undrafted Texans Rb with only a handful of good games under his belt. Of course i wont say that it is a sure thing he is going to be a bust either. I just dont think Foster is an elite talent, so i dont trust his long term value.

Clinton Portis has 6 career top-12 finishes. Had he not been traded, he would have been putting those up for Gary Kubiak. Seeing as Gary Kubiak had absolutely nothing to do with the decision to trade Clinton Portis, I don't know what bearing the fact that Portis got traded has to do with Arian Foster. Even if you think Kubiak had some sway over the Portis trade... great, so what? Are you saying that you're worried Houston might decide to trade away Arian Foster, if they can only get Nnamdi Asomugha or Darrell Revis (and a second round draft pick to boot!) in return?

There's no such thing as a sure thing, but that's completely irrelevant when compiling rankings, because you're ranking a player against his peers. Sure, Foster might not be a 100% lock... but none of his peers are 100% locks, either. Not even Chris Johnson or Adrian Peterson. Is Arian Foster's future any more uncertain than most of the other backs in the league? No. In fact, I'd argue that it's significantly less uncertain than most other RBs in the league.

Arian Foster isn't an elite talent, but I count 8 elite talents in the league, and three of them are 27 years old. After that, who are you going to rank above Foster? I guess I just don't see the difference between, say, Arian Foster and Rashard Mendenhall at this point.

Considering im not a big fan of Mendenhalls talent, i dont totally disagree with you here. However, it doesnt matter what i think of a player when it comes to his job security. The Steelers spent a first round pick on Mendenhall and seem to be happy with him. The Texans knew what they had in Foster for a full year, and still spent a 2nd round pick on Tate.

As for your point about Portis, let me ask you this, do you think the Jets or Raiders would give up Revis or Asomugha for Foster under any circumstance?

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Of those 3, only Davis had more than two good fantasy seasons for a Kubiak team.I guess our biggest disagreement comes in is Foster being a sure thing. I dont thing anything in football is a sure thing, especially a undrafted Texans Rb with only a handful of good games under his belt. Of course i wont say that it is a sure thing he is going to be a bust either. I just dont think Foster is an elite talent, so i dont trust his long term value.

Clinton Portis has 6 career top-12 finishes. Had he not been traded, he would have been putting those up for Gary Kubiak. Seeing as Gary Kubiak had absolutely nothing to do with the decision to trade Clinton Portis, I don't know what bearing the fact that Portis got traded has to do with Arian Foster. Even if you think Kubiak had some sway over the Portis trade... great, so what? Are you saying that you're worried Houston might decide to trade away Arian Foster, if they can only get Nnamdi Asomugha or Darrell Revis (and a second round draft pick to boot!) in return?There's no such thing as a sure thing, but that's completely irrelevant when compiling rankings, because you're ranking a player against his peers. Sure, Foster might not be a 100% lock... but none of his peers are 100% locks, either. Not even Chris Johnson or Adrian Peterson. Is Arian Foster's future any more uncertain than most of the other backs in the league? No. In fact, I'd argue that it's significantly less uncertain than most other RBs in the league.Arian Foster isn't an elite talent, but I count 8 elite talents in the league, and three of them are 27 years old. After that, who are you going to rank above Foster? I guess I just don't see the difference between, say, Arian Foster and Rashard Mendenhall at this point.
There *IS* an important difference between an undrafted RB and an early-mid-round pick, but it's not (always) talent. When a team invests in a player with a (relatively) early pick, and the contract that follows, they're going to be more - shall we say, forgiving - with that player. So, the difference between Arian Foster and Mendenhall is that Mendenhall is less likely to see someone drafted early in front of him (presumably, since they already have more invested in the position) and perhaps have a longer leash if he struggles down the road (see, e.g., Russell, Jamarcus).Yes, this is irrelevant once they sign their next deals, but when we're talking about their long-term certainty today it should at least be considered.

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Where does Lynch move on the dynasty scale now?

Was just going to ask this.I drafted him this summer in a start up dynasty with huge rosters, solely on the speculation that this was going to happen b/t this last off-season and next. Thankfully, I hit pay dirt early, and have now been hit with multiple trade offers, but nothing blows any wind up my skirt.I honestly do not know how to value the guy.Pros:1) Young - he's only 242) Above avg talent3) Former Pro Bowler4) Now plays in a horrible division against teams which are all in the bottom half of the league in yds/game in rushing5) Is a "bell cow" type backCons:1) He's a head case2) He's a head case3) He couldnt keep Fred Freakin' Jackson on the bench4) Sea's passing game isnt exactly stretching the field5) Sea's Oline doesnt exactly put opposing defenses on their backs (23rd in the league in ypc)I think he obviously gets a nice bump, but how much?
What kind of offers are you getting for him?

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No doubt Foster was a good find. On the other hand, Steve Slaton and Derrick Ward both averaged well over 6 YPC in yesterday's game for Houston.Pretty much any back can look decent in Houston's system. Even Ron Dayne and Ryan Moats had their moments.

Still trotting out this line, eh? Foster is the real deal.
Can you expand on that? I am on the "wait and see" side of the debate. I just don't see special talent when I watch him. I am no scout, and really only watch football because I enjoy it. But again, I don't see him as an elite talent. I think he could keep the Texans job for 4 years, but I could also see Tate or another back, giving him a run for his money, or forcing him into a RBBC.Just wanting to know that you mean by real deal, and why you think that. Thanks.

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Where does Lynch move on the dynasty scale now?

Was just going to ask this.I drafted him this summer in a start up dynasty with huge rosters, solely on the speculation that this was going to happen b/t this last off-season and next. Thankfully, I hit pay dirt early, and have now been hit with multiple trade offers, but nothing blows any wind up my skirt.I honestly do not know how to value the guy.Pros:1) Young - he's only 242) Above avg talent3) Former Pro Bowler4) Now plays in a horrible division against teams which are all in the bottom half of the league in yds/game in rushing5) Is a "bell cow" type backCons:1) He's a head case2) He's a head case3) He couldnt keep Fred Freakin' Jackson on the bench4) Sea's passing game isnt exactly stretching the field5) Sea's Oline doesnt exactly put opposing defenses on their backs (23rd in the league in ypc)I think he obviously gets a nice bump, but how much?
What kind of offers are you getting for him?
One offer I got after the trade:2011 1st, 2012 1st, Merriweather for Lynch, 2011 2nd, 2012 2ndPrior to the trade, I got this though I rejected in part because of a bad contract on B.Jax.Kolb + Lynch for Henne + B.Jax In another, I was trying to buy him and the guy would only take my 2012 1st - which should be a low pick (I have a good young team). I offered multiple 2nds, in addition to players, and he didn't bite. I didn't accept the 1st rounder offer in part because future 1sts are valuable in RFA - particularly late ones - and I don't have any 2011 1st rounders. In hindsight, I may regret not taking this deal though.

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Where does Lynch move on the dynasty scale now?

Was just going to ask this.I drafted him this summer in a start up dynasty with huge rosters, solely on the speculation that this was going to happen b/t this last off-season and next. Thankfully, I hit pay dirt early, and have now been hit with multiple trade offers, but nothing blows any wind up my skirt.I honestly do not know how to value the guy.Pros:1) Young - he's only 242) Above avg talent3) Former Pro Bowler4) Now plays in a horrible division against teams which are all in the bottom half of the league in yds/game in rushing5) Is a "bell cow" type backCons:1) He's a head case2) He's a head case3) He couldnt keep Fred Freakin' Jackson on the bench4) Sea's passing game isnt exactly stretching the field5) Sea's Oline doesnt exactly put opposing defenses on their backs (23rd in the league in ypc)I think he obviously gets a nice bump, but how much?
What kind of offers are you getting for him?
Last offer I received was Lynch for Housh/Tony Gonzalez/2011 2nd - I honestly have no need for either of those guys.

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I offered Clinton Portis + 2011 1st and 3rd for Lynch, I think that's pretty fair, but I haven't heard back from the owner yet.

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I offered Clinton Portis + 2011 1st and 3rd for Lynch, I think that's pretty fair, but I haven't heard back from the owner yet.

I'll give my perspective as a Lynch owner..Unless that's likely a top 4 pick I wouldn't take it. I've held onto Lynch through this nightmare still believe at 24 he can be a starter for me for a few years. That's not worth a mid to late 1st.

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I offered Clinton Portis + 2011 1st and 3rd for Lynch, I think that's pretty fair, but I haven't heard back from the owner yet.

I'll give my perspective as a Lynch owner..Unless that's likely a top 4 pick I wouldn't take it. I've held onto Lynch through this nightmare still believe at 24 he can be a starter for me for a few years. That's not worth a mid to late 1st.
I was just going to say the same thing.

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Yeah, I kind of figure that it isn't likely to be accepted, as most Lynch owners have been holding him for a long time with the hope that he will return to previous form, but I figured it can't hurt to send an offer. I'm a fan of Lynch and own him in my other league.

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(With apologies for near re-post from another thread) But I keep coming back to the fact that BUF repeatedly chose to start and play Fred Jackson over a healthy and willing Lynch, and traded Lynch at 24 for very little to keep Fred at 29. And that Forsett has ben doing well averaging over 4 yards behind a similarly weak OL.

I think the sell high now guys are going to end up the happiest about Lynch.

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(With apologies for near re-post from another thread) But I keep coming back to the fact that BUF repeatedly chose to start and play Fred Jackson over a healthy and willing Lynch, and traded Lynch at 24 for very little to keep Fred at 29. And that Forsett has ben doing well averaging over 4 yards behind a similarly weak OL.

I think the sell high now guys are going to end up the happiest about Lynch.

The problem is that Lynch was not willing. He didnt want to be in Buffalo, and he played like it. Had Lynch been a happy player and model citizen, Jackson would have never beat him out and Lynch would still be running for 1000 yards a season...even for a horrible Bills team.

Edited by Go deep

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(With apologies for near re-post from another thread) But I keep coming back to the fact that BUF repeatedly chose to start and play Fred Jackson over a healthy and willing Lynch, and traded Lynch at 24 for very little to keep Fred at 29. And that Forsett has ben doing well averaging over 4 yards behind a similarly weak OL.I think the sell high now guys are going to end up the happiest about Lynch.

If the Bills had a history of prudent personnel decisions, your argument might give me pause about Lynch. However.. Anyway, it's hard to discount pedigree in running backs. We've seen guys like Thomas Jones and Ced Benson go from buster malcontents to rejuvenated on new teams. Lynch is actually ahead of those guys at 24 years old and having already had two top 15 finishes. Keeping him really isn't a gamble at all.

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No doubt Foster was a good find. On the other hand, Steve Slaton and Derrick Ward both averaged well over 6 YPC in yesterday's game for Houston.Pretty much any back can look decent in Houston's system. Even Ron Dayne and Ryan Moats had their moments.

Still trotting out this line, eh? Foster is the real deal.
Can you expand on that? I am on the "wait and see" side of the debate. I just don't see special talent when I watch him. I am no scout, and really only watch football because I enjoy it. But again, I don't see him as an elite talent. I think he could keep the Texans job for 4 years, but I could also see Tate or another back, giving him a run for his money, or forcing him into a RBBC.Just wanting to know that you mean by real deal, and why you think that. Thanks.
I can't speak for F&L, but for me it all comes down to the eyeball test. He very much looks the part. There have been PLENTY of running backs who have racked up stats but you KNEW weren't the real deal because they looked average and had nothing special about their game. Names like Matt Forte, Domanick Davis, Rudi Johnson, Mike Anderson, Travis Henry, and many more all piled up stats because they either had a golden opportunity or an offense that allowed it to happen. None of these players looked special, great, or impressive when you watched them.Arian Foster does, at least with certain facets of his game, and therein lies the difference. He has the golden opportunity, the offense allowing him to put up points, but ALSO has the look of a high caliber player. Combining all 3 can make a player become elite, ala Priest Holmes.

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SSOG

I have Gates/Finley/Hernandez on one of my dynasty teams and wonder which one should i deal.

I like all of them but moreso Gates right now with the way he is playing. Should i wait a week to see how

Aaron will be used now before shipping him off and what kind of value you think i could get for JF/AH.

I also noticed you already did your update on your rankings before the MOSS deal,

Where would you place Hernandez at for dynasty now that he is more involved in the offense.

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(With apologies for near re-post from another thread) But I keep coming back to the fact that BUF repeatedly chose to start and play Fred Jackson over a healthy and willing Lynch, and traded Lynch at 24 for very little to keep Fred at 29. And that Forsett has ben doing well averaging over 4 yards behind a similarly weak OL.

I think the sell high now guys are going to end up the happiest about Lynch.

The problem is that Lynch was not willing. He didnt want to be in Buffalo, and he played like it. Had Lynch been a happy player and model citizen, Jackson would have never beat him out and Lynch would still be running for 1000 yards a season...even for a horrible Bills team.

Actually, Jackson played better. And if a guy doesn't try because he isn't happy, is that really a player you can count on? What happens when he isn't happy again? I find it hard to believe that his happiness had anything to do with how poorly he played last season. Lynch is an average talent with a below average work ethic. He is a definite sell high.

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I offered Clinton Portis + 2011 1st and 3rd for Lynch, I think that's pretty fair, but I haven't heard back from the owner yet.

I view Portis as the pocket lint in this deal, so for me that deal comes down to a 1st and 3rd next year for Lynch.If it was going to be a high first (gets me a shot at Ingram), I'd consider it.

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I had offers of VJax+2nd for Rivers+1st (likely late) and of VJax/2nd/Naanee for Brees. Both owners offered the trade because they were thrilled with their depth at the QB position. I wound up doing the VJax/2nd/Nanee for Brees trade.

Ahhh, so you play with retaards. THAT explains a LOT!
I'm sorry, anyone that thinks Vincent Jackson is comparable in value to Brees or Rivers is mentally challenged. If these people are influencing YOUR perception of value for players like Vincent Jackson, it's an indictment of how your vociferously delivered nutty judgment on the topic is even nuttier than I thought.Ignore me if you want. I certainly wish I could ignore your bizarre view on VJax.

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SSOGI have Gates/Finley/Hernandez on one of my dynasty teams and wonder which one should i deal.I like all of them but moreso Gates right now with the way he is playing. Should i wait a week to see howAaron will be used now before shipping him off and what kind of value you think i could get for JF/AH.I also noticed you already did your update on your rankings before the MOSS deal, Where would you place Hernandez at for dynasty now that he is more involved in the offense.

It's an awesome time to sell Hernandez. Ride the aftershock. People who are buying him are imagining only the best case scenario. I would sell ASAP. Waiting for another game (after week 6 due to the bye) is a long wait. If you sell now, chances are you get them to overpay. I doubt if he has 8/100/2 in Week 6 that you will get anymore than you would get right now.I don't know how anyone could sell Gates right now unless the rest of your team is terrible. Foster is the only non-QB who has scored more. I understand the desire to sell Gates before he drops off, but he's performing so insanely well. Ride him into the ground.With Gates/Finley you've got a near perfect combo.

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Brandon Tate is going to skyrocket.

For reference I've received an offer of a 2011 1st round pick for Brandon Tate (likely #8-12 pick).

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Brandon Tate is going to skyrocket.

For reference I've received an offer of a 2011 1st round pick for Brandon Tate (likely #8-12 pick).
I just traded a mid to late 2011 1st for Tate.

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As for your point about Portis, let me ask you this, do you think the Jets or Raiders would give up Revis or Asomugha for Foster under any circumstance?

I don't get why you're asking this. That was exactly my point. Denver only trade Portis because they got a HoF CB in return. Houston is unlikely to get a HoF CB in return, so I doubt they're very likely to trade Foster.

Brandon Tate is going to skyrocket.

Not in my rankings. I was already ranking him on the assumption that Moss was gone after this season. New England sped up the timetable, but nothing's really changed. Tate's at a point in my rankings where the only way he's moving up is through the quality of his play.

Can you expand on that? I am on the "wait and see" side of the debate. I just don't see special talent when I watch him. I am no scout, and really only watch football because I enjoy it. But again, I don't see him as an elite talent. I think he could keep the Texans job for 4 years, but I could also see Tate or another back, giving him a run for his money, or forcing him into a RBBC.Just wanting to know that you mean by real deal, and why you think that. Thanks.

I don't know how people can't see special talent when they watch Arian Foster. Maybe not Peterson/CJ3/MJD special, but the kid is a very good talent. I took the wait and see approach with him, but at this point, I've waited, I've seen, and I'm ready to commit. He's the guy in Houston long-term.

SSOGI have Gates/Finley/Hernandez on one of my dynasty teams and wonder which one should i deal.I like all of them but moreso Gates right now with the way he is playing. Should i wait a week to see howAaron will be used now before shipping him off and what kind of value you think i could get for JF/AH.I also noticed you already did your update on your rankings before the MOSS deal, Where would you place Hernandez at for dynasty now that he is more involved in the offense.

Who you deal depends on your leaguemates. All three of those guys have serious hype trains. Deal whoever has the biggest hype train in your league. All it takes is one owner to overpay, so find out who is most eager to overpay, and whom he is most eager to overpay for, and sell.Also, Hernandez isn't going to move much. I'll bump him over Celek (who has the exact same value score as Hernandez), and I'll flirt with bumping him over Winslow (whose score is 4 points higher, and whom I am becoming progressively more and more concerned about), but there's not going to be a lot of movement. As with Tate, I was ranking Hernandez under the assumption that Moss was gone after this season. All Belichick did was speed up the timetable a little bit.

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Brandon Tate is going to skyrocket.

For reference I've received an offer of a 2011 1st round pick for Brandon Tate (likely #8-12 pick).
I just traded a mid to late 2011 1st for Tate.
Are you worried about NE bringing in VJAX or another legit #1/2 guy?I just worry that buying now, is buying high.

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Brandon Tate is going to skyrocket.

For reference I've received an offer of a 2011 1st round pick for Brandon Tate (likely #8-12 pick).
I just traded a mid to late 2011 1st for Tate.
Are you worried about NE bringing in VJAX or another legit #1/2 guy?I just worry that buying now, is buying high.
No. It's a mid to late 1st round pick. My guess is that the prospects left at that point won't be any better than Tate, and I don't have to wait 2 years on Tate to develop. I picked up Tate off the waiver last year in all my leagues where he was a FA. I have one more offer out for him in the only league I don't own him in. The guy has an extra gear and looks like a star IMO. Edited by GreatLakesMike

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SSOGI have Gates/Finley/Hernandez on one of my dynasty teams and wonder which one should i deal.I like all of them but moreso Gates right now with the way he is playing. Should i wait a week to see howAaron will be used now before shipping him off and what kind of value you think i could get for JF/AH.I also noticed you already did your update on your rankings before the MOSS deal, Where would you place Hernandez at for dynasty now that he is more involved in the offense.

It's an awesome time to sell Hernandez. Ride the aftershock. People who are buying him are imagining only the best case scenario. I would sell ASAP. Waiting for another game (after week 6 due to the bye) is a long wait. If you sell now, chances are you get them to overpay. I doubt if he has 8/100/2 in Week 6 that you will get anymore than you would get right now.I don't know how anyone could sell Gates right now unless the rest of your team is terrible. Foster is the only non-QB who has scored more. I understand the desire to sell Gates before he drops off, but he's performing so insanely well. Ride him into the ground.With Gates/Finley you've got a near perfect combo.
I dealt Gates in one league but only because the buyer paid a lot and because my team is in full rebuild mode. If I was staring at this scenario I would try to deal Hernandez while the Randy Moss news is fresh, then be starting Finley at TE & Gates as a flex player for the rest of the year.

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Are you worried about NE bringing in VJAX or another legit #1/2 guy?I just worry that buying now, is buying high.

I'm going to shop Tate in one of my dynasty leagues to see what I can get for him, because the league gives very minimal rewards for kickoff returns. I'm in another league that gives heavy rewards for kickoff returns (Tate is the #2 WR in that scoring system), and the only way you're going to get him off me in that league is if you pry him out of my cold dead fingers (or if you offer me top-12 WR value).

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Are you worried about NE bringing in VJAX or another legit #1/2 guy?I just worry that buying now, is buying high.

I'm going to shop Tate in one of my dynasty leagues to see what I can get for him, because the league gives very minimal rewards for kickoff returns. I'm in another league that gives heavy rewards for kickoff returns (Tate is the #2 WR in that scoring system), and the only way you're going to get him off me in that league is if you pry him out of my cold dead fingers (or if you offer me top-12 WR value).
This made me wonder...does this move actually hurt Tate's value in return yardage leagues, if he does move to WR only duties? Basically, does his fantasy value as a starting WR outweigh his fantasy value as a WR3/returner?I don't play in any return yardage leagues, so I am not sure.

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This made me wonder...does this move actually hurt Tate's value in return yardage leagues, if he does move to WR only duties? Basically, does his fantasy value as a starting WR outweigh his fantasy value as a WR3/returner?I don't play in any return yardage leagues, so I am not sure.

New England has no problem using full-time offensive starters on special teams. Welker has been the full-time punt returner since he first landed in New England, and Welker is far more important to the Pats than Tate is. I'd be surprised if New England cut back on his return duties.Edit: remember, Tate is hardly some run-of-the-mill returner. He holds the NCAA record for career return yards. He's leading the league in kickoff return yards, and he has two scores in four games. He was drafted in large part for his return prowess. Edited by SSOG

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As for your point about Portis, let me ask you this, do you think the Jets or Raiders would give up Revis or Asomugha for Foster under any circumstance?

I don't get why you're asking this. That was exactly my point. Denver only trade Portis because they got a HoF CB in return. Houston is unlikely to get a HoF CB in return, so I doubt they're very likely to trade Foster.

Brandon Tate is going to skyrocket.

Not in my rankings. I was already ranking him on the assumption that Moss was gone after this season. New England sped up the timetable, but nothing's really changed. Tate's at a point in my rankings where the only way he's moving up is through the quality of his play.Also, Hernandez isn't going to move much. I'll bump him over Celek (who has the exact same value score as Hernandez), and I'll flirt with bumping him over Winslow (whose score is 4 points higher, and whom I am becoming progressively more and more concerned about), but there's not going to be a lot of movement. As with Tate, I was ranking Hernandez under the assumption that Moss was gone after this season. All Belichick did was speed up the timetable a little bit.
I think the Moss trade might be a little more significant to the dynasty outlook of Tate and Hernandez than what you're suggesting. While you're probably right in noting that Moss was going to be gone after this season anyway, the fact that the Patriots sent him packing RIGHT NOW strikes me as significant. That they let him go for minimal compensation in the middle of a season in which they are expected to be strong playoff contenders says more about their confidence in his replacements than merely letting him walk in the offseason would have. If they had let him walk after the season, it wouldn't have necessarily been an endorsement of the other guys on the roster because the team would've still had time to make a trade, sign some free agents, and/or acquire other receiving options in the draft. Unless they pull off a surprise move in the coming weeks, it seems like they're content to roll with their current receiving options for the duration of the season. That suggests a certain level of confidence in guys like Tate or Hernandez. It's enough of an endorsement for me to bump their value. Tate in particular has gone from a guy who "might get a chance" to being a guy who will "definitely get a chance." That the team is giving him this opportunity seemingly says something about their opinion of his skills, which in turn improves my opinion of of his long term outlook. There's a danger in being too reactionary, but there's also a danger in not being reactionary enough. The various personnel moves and decisions that teams make often say something about the players involved. When the Chargers tendered Malcom Floyd at the same level as Vincent Jackson, it said something about their confidence in Floyd's ability. When the Saints traded Donte Stallworth right before the season to make room in the lineup for Marques Colston, it said something about their confidence in Colston's ability. When the Eagles cut Westbrook and neglected to bring in any serious competition for their RB job, it said something about their confidence in LeSean McCoy's ability. Sometimes teams make mistakes and sometimes the players they "endorse" still end up being crap (Derek Anderson for example), but when teams talk, I try to listen. I think New England's willingness to part with Moss for minimal compensation in the middle of the season says something about their faith in the alternatives. Modest bump for Hernandez and healthy bump for Tate, IMO. Having said that, it's all relative. I know that I was already fairly high on Tate and I know that the same is true for SSOG. The latest endorsement is not as significant for people who already had some faith in Tate. I think I would only move him up about 8-10 spots from where I had him a couple months ago. The FBG staff, on the other hand, has him at WR67 in their rankings. I would recommend moving him up about 30-35 spots from there. He's no longer just another WR prospect with potential. He's a WR prospect with potential who has flashed talent and been given an endorsement by his front office. Edited by EBF

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I think the Moss trade might be a little more significant to the dynasty outlook of Tate and Hernandez than what you're suggesting. While you're probably right in noting that Moss was going to be gone after this season anyway, the fact that the Patriots sent him packing RIGHT NOW strikes me as significant. That they let him go for minimal compensation in the middle of a season in which they are expected to be strong playoff contenders says more about their confidence in his replacements than merely letting him walk in the offseason would have. If they had let him walk after the season, it wouldn't have necessarily been an endorsement of the other guys on the roster because the team would've still had time to make a trade, sign some free agents, and/or acquire other receiving options in the draft. Unless they pull off a surprise move in the coming weeks, it seems like they're content to roll with their current receiving options for the duration of the season. That suggests a certain level of confidence in guys like Tate or Hernandez. It's enough of an endorsement for me to bump their value. Tate in particular has gone from a guy who "might get a chance" to being a guy who will "definitely get a chance." That the team is giving him this opportunity seemingly says something about their opinion of his skills, which in turn improves my opinion of of his long term outlook. There's a danger in being too reactionary, but there's also a danger in not being reactionary enough. The various personnel moves and decisions that teams make often say something about the players involved. When the Chargers tendered Malcom Floyd at the same level as Vincent Jackson, it said something about their confidence in Floyd's ability. When the Saints traded Donte Stallworth right before the season to make room in the lineup for Marques Colston, it said something about their confidence in Colston's ability. When the Eagles cut Westbrook and neglected to bring in any serious competition for their RB job, it said something about their confidence in LeSean McCoy's ability. Sometimes teams make mistakes and sometimes the players they "endorse" still end up being crap (Derek Anderson for example), but when teams talk, I try to listen. I think New England's willingness to part with Moss for minimal compensation in the middle of the season says something about their faith in the alternatives. Modest bump for Hernandez and healthy bump for Tate, IMO. Having said that, it's all relative. I know that I was already fairly high on Tate and I know that the same is true for SSOG. The latest endorsement is not as significant for people who already had some faith in Tate. I think I would only move him up about 8-10 spots from where I had him a couple months ago. The FBG staff, on the other hand, has him at WR67 in their rankings. I would recommend moving him up about 30-35 spots from there. He's no longer just another WR prospect with potential. He's a WR prospect with potential who has flashed talent and been given an endorsement by his front office.

I'm actually right there with you on all of this, especially the part about "when teams talk, try to listen" (which is why I've cooled just a touch on Sidney Rice since the end of last season- every Vikings move has been screaming "we're worried about our WRs!"). I've just already ranked Ben Tate on the assumption that he'd be in this exact situation within the next year. Obviously being in the situation now has value (which gets back to the "urgency" concept- it gives us more time to evaluate Tate and make decisions regarding the roster spot), and perhaps he deserves a bump of a couple spots (I could see jumping him over Ward, Sims-Walker, and Bowe), but at this point he's gone about as far in the rankings as opportunity alone will take him, and it's time for him to start showing it on the field. I'm going to have a hard time moving him over guys like Eddie Royal and Austin Collie- guys who are already out there lighting things up on the field- until he starts putting up yards and scores against opposing defenses instead of just against opposing special teams.

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For what it's worth - I just traded for Lynch (sort of accidentally): Lynch for a 2011 2nd, 2012 2nd, 2013 2nd and Malcom Floyd for Lynch. All of the 2nds are mine, and they should all be pretty late. (I have Rodgers/Ryan, CJ3/Wells/Hillis/Brown/Scott/Lynch, Driver/Finley/Keller/Holmes/Nanee/Maclin/Benn/Chambers/Rice/Cook and one of the top set of IDPs in the league).

I kind of put it out there expecting him not to accept given our previous exchanges, and to be honest I didn't realized I offered 3x 2nd rounders :goodposting: I have always loved Floyd, but it's a non-PPR and RB-premium league (even starting 2) - and I have plenty of other depth there.

(Oh yeah, I also have Hernandez on my taxi squad).

Edited by corpcow

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In the first league I wasn't actively shopping him, but I still wound up swapping him earlier this year when two owners both approached me with offers commensurate with my ranking of VJax. During the window when he looked likely to get traded this season, I had offers of VJax+2nd for Rivers+1st (likely late) and of VJax/2nd/Naanee for Brees. Both owners offered the trade because they were thrilled with their depth at the QB position. I wound up doing the VJax/2nd/Nanee for Brees trade.

Seriously? I guess it depends on league size and scoring dynamics, but I cannot imagine any scenario - even before the uncertainty with VJ - that VJax and a 2nd is worth Rivers and a first. The second trade is equally troubling - though I guess there's a case to be made, in a PPR with 4 pts per passing TD and a smaller QB starting pool.In any case, I would have done either deal in a heartbeat regardless of my QB situation.

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As for your point about Portis, let me ask you this, do you think the Jets or Raiders would give up Revis or Asomugha for Foster under any circumstance?

I don't get why you're asking this. That was exactly my point. Denver only trade Portis because they got a HoF CB in return. Houston is unlikely to get a HoF CB in return, so I doubt they're very likely to trade Foster.

Brandon Tate is going to skyrocket.

Not in my rankings. I was already ranking him on the assumption that Moss was gone after this season. New England sped up the timetable, but nothing's really changed. Tate's at a point in my rankings where the only way he's moving up is through the quality of his play.

Can you expand on that? I am on the "wait and see" side of the debate. I just don't see special talent when I watch him. I am no scout, and really only watch football because I enjoy it. But again, I don't see him as an elite talent. I think he could keep the Texans job for 4 years, but I could also see Tate or another back, giving him a run for his money, or forcing him into a RBBC.

Just wanting to know that you mean by real deal, and why you think that. Thanks.

I don't know how people can't see special talent when they watch Arian Foster. Maybe not Peterson/CJ3/MJD special, but the kid is a very good talent. I took the wait and see approach with him, but at this point, I've waited, I've seen, and I'm ready to commit. He's the guy in Houston long-term.

SSOG

I have Gates/Finley/Hernandez on one of my dynasty teams and wonder which one should i deal.

I like all of them but moreso Gates right now with the way he is playing. Should i wait a week to see how

Aaron will be used now before shipping him off and what kind of value you think i could get for JF/AH.

I also noticed you already did your update on your rankings before the MOSS deal,

Where would you place Hernandez at for dynasty now that he is more involved in the offense.

Who you deal depends on your leaguemates. All three of those guys have serious hype trains. Deal whoever has the biggest hype train in your league. All it takes is one owner to overpay, so find out who is most eager to overpay, and whom he is most eager to overpay for, and sell.

Also, Hernandez isn't going to move much. I'll bump him over Celek (who has the exact same value score as Hernandez), and I'll flirt with bumping him over Winslow (whose score is 4 points higher, and whom I am becoming progressively more and more concerned about), but there's not going to be a lot of movement. As with Tate, I was ranking Hernandez under the assumption that Moss was gone after this season. All Belichick did was speed up the timetable a little bit.

I was asking it to make a point. Point being is Portis was successful because he was an elite talent. Thats why he put up numbers after he left the Broncos. Which leaves Foster more in the Mike Anderson, Orlandis Gary category than than Terrell Davis, Clinton Portis category.

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Seriously? I guess it depends on league size and scoring dynamics, but I cannot imagine any scenario - even before the uncertainty with VJ - that VJax and a 2nd is worth Rivers and a first. The second trade is equally troubling - though I guess there's a case to be made, in a PPR with 4 pts per passing TD and a smaller QB starting pool.In any case, I would have done either deal in a heartbeat regardless of my QB situation.

10 team league. The Brees owner also owned Bradford and Orton. The Rivers owner also owned Donovan McNabb and had just traded for Aaron Rodgers. And remember, this happened back in the window when everyone thought that VJax was going to play this season.I imagine a lot of owners would have made that deal if it was Brandon Marshall instead of Vincent Jackson. I also know that I'm not the only guy on this planet that likes VJax more than Marshall.. I know that the Fitzgerald, Johnson, Johnson, White, and Austin owners wouldn't have traded them for a Rivers or a Brees (I know this because I own Fitz and Austin, and the Brees owner owns White, and the former Rodgers owner owns Andre, and the Calvin owner is insane). So what's so surprising about someone who feels the same way about VJax as I do making that deal for Jackson? I suppose they look like lopsided trades to anyone who's down on VJax, but if you've got him ranked among the top 10 dynasty WRs, that seems like pretty fair value. He was the only potential top-5 WR on the market. If I had Rivers and Rodgers at QB and I was already stacked at RB, I'd be shopping either QB for the best WR I could possibly acquire, and in my opinion, "the best WR I could acquire" was Vincent Jackson. Seems the Rivers owner and Brees owner both agreed.VJax reminds me a lot of Jonathan Stewart. If a Stewart Believer sells JStew, it'll probably for a package that makes every Unbeliever on the planet scratch their head and stare blankly while all the True Believers just nod understandingly. I'm a Stewart Believer in that dynasty league, too, and I've been approached by several Unbelievers who have been shocked by my asking price for him... but I think there are probably a lot of people in this thread who would be asking for the exact same thing if they were in my position.

I was asking it to make a point. Point being is Portis was successful because he was an elite talent. Thats why he put up numbers after he left the Broncos. Which leaves Foster more in the Mike Anderson, Orlandis Gary category than than Terrell Davis, Clinton Portis category.

You seem awfully sure of that. I know two things- first off, the only Denver RBs who ever put up numbers comparable to what Foster is putting up right now are Terrell Davis and Clinton Portis. Mike Anderson also had a huge rookie season, but I personally think Anderson is really underrated by a lot of people- the only things that ever kept Mike Anderson from putting up stud numbers were Terrell Davis, Clinton Portis, and injury. Ain't no shame in being second fiddle to those two backs. I think Anderson was a huge step above the Olandis Garys and Reuben Droughnses of the world. And I think Arian Foster resides above the Mike Anderson line.Second off, speaking of Reuben Droughns... you realize he was the first person to rush for 1000 yards in Cleveland in like 20 years, right? He put up 1200 rushing yards in Denver in 2004... and 1200 rushing yards in Cleveland in 2005. Just sayin'.

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In the first league I wasn't actively shopping him, but I still wound up swapping him earlier this year when two owners both approached me with offers commensurate with my ranking of VJax. During the window when he looked likely to get traded this season, I had offers of VJax+2nd for Rivers+1st (likely late) and of VJax/2nd/Naanee for Brees. Both owners offered the trade because they were thrilled with their depth at the QB position. I wound up doing the VJax/2nd/Nanee for Brees trade.

Seriously? I guess it depends on league size and scoring dynamics, but I cannot imagine any scenario - even before the uncertainty with VJ - that VJax and a 2nd is worth Rivers and a first. The second trade is equally troubling - though I guess there's a case to be made, in a PPR with 4 pts per passing TD and a smaller QB starting pool.In any case, I would have done either deal in a heartbeat regardless of my QB situation.
So would anyone with an IQ over room temp?

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In the first league I wasn't actively shopping him, but I still wound up swapping him earlier this year when two owners both approached me with offers commensurate with my ranking of VJax. During the window when he looked likely to get traded this season, I had offers of VJax+2nd for Rivers+1st (likely late) and of VJax/2nd/Naanee for Brees. Both owners offered the trade because they were thrilled with their depth at the QB position. I wound up doing the VJax/2nd/Nanee for Brees trade.

Seriously? I guess it depends on league size and scoring dynamics, but I cannot imagine any scenario - even before the uncertainty with VJ - that VJax and a 2nd is worth Rivers and a first. The second trade is equally troubling - though I guess there's a case to be made, in a PPR with 4 pts per passing TD and a smaller QB starting pool.In any case, I would have done either deal in a heartbeat regardless of my QB situation.
So would anyone with an IQ over room temp?
But just dont call those people stoopid, or ssog will turn you off...

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Deal. Going PPG takes away one of Rivers' best assets in a comparison with Roethlisberger - he is durable and doesn't get suspended. But given Ben's 4 game suspension to start out the period of any bet, it seems PPG is necessary. However, IMO these are two reasons (durability, knucklehead factor) why Rivers should be ranked higher than Roethlisberger as a dynasty prospect.I suggest a sig bet to avoid money hassles, but I'll make a money bet if you prefer. Let's go with the 2010 regular season, FBG scoring, partial games count fully (i.e., no dicing up partial games). Missed games obviously do not count.Looking back on the 4 seasons since Rivers became a starter (FBG scoring):2006: Rivers 16.6, Roethlisberger 16.12007: Rivers 15.1, Roethlisberger 21.92008: Rivers 22.3, Roethlisberger 15.22009: Rivers 21.6, Roethlisberger 22.8Overall (2006-2009): Rivers 18.922, Roethlisberger 18.918Pretty close, but trending is better for Rivers.:confused:

I'd rather do a cash bet, since I'm now using my sig for advertising purposes. Hopefully Paypal works fine for you. To make it interesting, how about making it a dynamic bet- how about $5 for every difference in PPG, maximum $50? If Rivers outscores Roofles by 3.4 ppg, I owe you $17. If Roofles outscores Rivers by 6.5, you owe me $32.50. If one player outscores the other by 0.05 ppg, one of us is Paypalling the other $0.25. Are these terms acceptable?
Done.

Oh yeah, obviously it goes without saying, but I'm saying it anyway. Standard FBGs scoring. We'll use Dodds' YTD PPG stats from the week before wildcard round of the playoffs to determine final winner.

1/4 of the season down, and Rivers is second in the league in fantasy points, averaging ~25 ppg. Long way to go, but I'm feeling pretty good about this bet right now.:popcorn: Edited by Just Win Baby

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SSOG, where does B. Tate now sit in your rankings post-Moss?

Brandon Tate is going to skyrocket.

Not in my rankings. I was already ranking him on the assumption that Moss was gone after this season. New England sped up the timetable, but nothing's really changed. Tate's at a point in my rankings where the only way he's moving up is through the quality of his play.

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1/4 of the season down, and Rivers is leading the league in fantasy points, averaging 27.7 ppg. Long way to go, but I'm feeling pretty good about this bet right now.:blackdot:

The only reason Rivers leads the league in fantasy points is because Roethlisberger hasn't played a down yet. Now the game really begins in earnest. :lol:

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