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I am holding and I think I like him as my 2RB. Not many backs are long time starters in the NFL anyway and I think this guy has the rare talent of being able to break off big runs and catch. With guys like Greene, McFadden and Blount on my bench, I feel comfy with him as my #2RB or Flex. I see him keeping the gig for at least the next 2 years so in my book he's a hold or buy..

Good point about the life-span of most NFL running backs. And he has played through most of his injuries. But he has only had one game of 20+ carries in his career, too. I want to see how his body responds when that becomes the norm. Based on my personality, I want to see how he responds while on somebody else's roster, not mine. I think the risk is such that there is much potential for gain, by selling now, and only little potential for loss, if you can get a good deal.

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Has anyone seen Ben Tate moved in dynasty? With all semantics aside, it seems like most of the Foster discussion has him at either top 5 or at the least top 10-12 RB long term. If he is the long term answer for HOU, does Tate EVER get a shot there? As Foster's value has soared, one would have to assume Tate's has plummeted to next to nothing. Could be a nice cheap throw in, no?

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Has anyone seen Ben Tate moved in dynasty? With all semantics aside, it seems like most of the Foster discussion has him at either top 5 or at the least top 10-12 RB long term. If he is the long term answer for HOU, does Tate EVER get a shot there? As Foster's value has soared, one would have to assume Tate's has plummeted to next to nothing. Could be a nice cheap throw in, no?

Considering his cost, i think he is well worth buying, especially for Foster owners. I havnt seen any deals involving him, buti bet h could be had for a 2nd/3rd round rookie pick, or something of similar value.

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Context is relevant. When was Tate put on IR? Exactly.

We're talking talent here- did Foster become more talented when Tate when on IR? Exactly.
Lets not forget that Slaton was a special talent, top 10 dynasty back, and the future of the Houston ground game at one time too. Kubiak ruined that, whether that was right or wrong. It is very fair and accurate to say that most NFL caliber running backs can put up good numbers in Houston's offense. It is also very fair and accurate to say that Kubiak seems to view his backs and interchangeable, making it easier for someone to lose their job, ala Steve Slaton. It isn't black or white, and you are trying to make it so, by clinging to perceived inconsistent comment. Pulling up an old post, made before Tate got hurt, is a classless move, in my opinion. Before Tate got hurt, it looked like it was going to be a full-blown RBBC, with Kubiak benching them all on a rotating basis. The "gem" you are harping on was actually a pretty logical statement, at the time.
Classless move? Come on now. I only brought it up because people were saying that Houston was not a good situation for a FF RB, and now they are saying it is. For the record, GD isn't one of those people- he's been fairly consistent saying that Houston isn't a great spot long term, and his low ranking of Foster reflects that. If you think that is classless, I'd hate to see what you thought if I would've dug up some of his other quotes about Foster back then.

You're wrong about Slaton- a lot of people thought he was not a special talent nor the future of the Houston ground game. Kubiak did not ruin that because he never was. Wrong about Kubiak in general as well, but I won't bother arguing with you since you seem pretty set in your opinions.

You're confusing two issues. I think most viewed HOU as a productive spot for RBs - and I don't see anything in that quote that suggests otherwise. As I read his comment, he suggested avoiding the situation because it was crowded, not because it would be a "bad" situation for any of them. As Concept Coop points out - and as I made perhaps someone sarcastically in my previous post - that statement makes a lot of sense in the context in which is was made - avoid the situation because it won't be reliable. The season-ending Tate injury - which no one could really predict - eliminated a lot of that uncertainty, and you can't evaluate that statement without understanding that it was made without the benefit of this information.

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Context is relevant. When was Tate put on IR? Exactly.

We're talking talent here- did Foster become more talented when Tate when on IR? Exactly.
Lets not forget that Slaton was a special talent, top 10 dynasty back, and the future of the Houston ground game at one time too. Kubiak ruined that, whether that was right or wrong. It is very fair and accurate to say that most NFL caliber running backs can put up good numbers in Houston's offense. It is also very fair and accurate to say that Kubiak seems to view his backs and interchangeable, making it easier for someone to lose their job, ala Steve Slaton. It isn't black or white, and you are trying to make it so, by clinging to perceived inconsistent comment. Pulling up an old post, made before Tate got hurt, is a classless move, in my opinion. Before Tate got hurt, it looked like it was going to be a full-blown RBBC, with Kubiak benching them all on a rotating basis. The "gem" you are harping on was actually a pretty logical statement, at the time.
Classless move? Come on now. I only brought it up because people were saying that Houston was not a good situation for a FF RB, and now they are saying it is. For the record, GD isn't one of those people- he's been fairly consistent saying that Houston isn't a great spot long term, and his low ranking of Foster reflects that. If you think that is classless, I'd hate to see what you thought if I would've dug up some of his other quotes about Foster back then.You're wrong about Slaton- a lot of people thought he was not a special talent nor the future of the Houston ground game. Kubiak did not ruin that because he never was. Wrong about Kubiak in general as well, but I won't bother arguing with you since you seem pretty set in your opinions.
It is a great situation if you are the main guy, and the coaches view you as the main guy. But it seems easy to fall out of favor too. Again, it is not as cut and dry as: good or bad. That is why the "gem" you spent time pulling up, was a perfectly logical, perfectly accurate statement, at the time.Again, the Houston RB situation is a gold mine, if you can keep it. It is brutal if you fumble or struggle, because you are more interchangeable in said system. As far as Slaton being the guy, the Texans said as much when discussing Cedric Benson. They said that they were comfortable with what they had, and passed. They later regretted that decision. Meaning, if they didn't think Slaton was the guy, at one point, Cedric Benson would be the starting RB in Houston, putting up top 10 number. Not only that, Slaton's ADP clearly showed that most FF players felt the same.

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Has anyone seen Ben Tate moved in dynasty? With all semantics aside, it seems like most of the Foster discussion has him at either top 5 or at the least top 10-12 RB long term. If he is the long term answer for HOU, does Tate EVER get a shot there? As Foster's value has soared, one would have to assume Tate's has plummeted to next to nothing. Could be a nice cheap throw in, no?

Considering his cost, i think he is well worth buying, especially for Foster owners. I havnt seen any deals involving him, buti bet h could be had for a 2nd/3rd round rookie pick, or something of similar value.
Traded him for L. Murphy in my PPR dynasty.

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I don't know how people can't see special talent when they watch Arian Foster. Maybe not Peterson/CJ3/MJD special, but the kid is a very good talent. I took the wait and see approach with him, but at this point, I've waited, I've seen, and I'm ready to commit. He's the guy in Houston long-term.

Foster wants big money and the Texans won't pay it. They trade him to the Seahawks. Still a special talent?

Right now, Foster is a top 5-7 pick in startups next year. Trade him to the Seahawks and he is a late 2nd - 3rd round guy.

ADP is a top 2 start up pick. Trade him to the Seahawks and he is a top 2 start up pick. That is special talent.

Arian Foster will be every bit as special of a talent whether he plays for Houston, Seattle, or the Saskatchewan Roughriders. Talent is independent of situation. His production will decrease, but his talent will not.

You're right that Adrian Peterson is such a sublime talent that he'd remain a stud no matter where he was, and that Arian Foster is not at that level. That's why Adrian is a tier 1 back with a value score of 98 while Arian is a tier 2 back with a value score of 82. There's a huge gap between those two players. I'm not comparing Foster to Peterson, though... I'm comparing him to guys like Ryan Mathews, Beanie Wells, or Lesean McCoy. Foster is every bit as talented as those guys, and he's in a better situation, to boot. The result is that he gets ranked above those guys. I think Foster is as talented as Mendenhall, so Foster gets ranked near Mendenhall (a bit below because Mendenhall is a slightly more secure investment, but all in all pretty comparable- I've got Foster at value 82 and Mendy at value 84).

Arian Foster is not a top 5 talent. That's why Arian Foster doesn't have a top-5 ranking. I do think he's a top 12 talent, though, which is a lot more than most people are giving him credit for. He's not Matt Forte or Joseph Addai here- a mediocre-to-below-average RB whose value is wholly and completely derived from his situation, a guy who is basically just filling in until his team goes about securing a more adequate replacement. He's better than that.

I know that draft position doesn't mean everything - especially after players have been in the league for a while, but do you think that Foster could perform much better than all of these former first (or second) round picks if he was in their situation? SD, Arizona, Chicago and Indy have some of the worst run blocking lines in the NFL.

This isn't to knock Foster, as I do like him quite a bit, but I don't see how is compares to a Beanie Wells or how he's head and shoulders (talentwise) above a guy like Joe Addai. If Foster played in a pass first offense while running behind a horrid o-line, I think he'd end up with similiar numbers to what Addai is producing.

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Context is relevant. When was Tate put on IR? Exactly.

We're talking talent here- did Foster become more talented when Tate when on IR? Exactly.
Lets not forget that Slaton was a special talent, top 10 dynasty back, and the future of the Houston ground game at one time too. Kubiak ruined that, whether that was right or wrong. It is very fair and accurate to say that most NFL caliber running backs can put up good numbers in Houston's offense. It is also very fair and accurate to say that Kubiak seems to view his backs and interchangeable, making it easier for someone to lose their job, ala Steve Slaton. It isn't black or white, and you are trying to make it so, by clinging to perceived inconsistent comment. Pulling up an old post, made before Tate got hurt, is a classless move, in my opinion. Before Tate got hurt, it looked like it was going to be a full-blown RBBC, with Kubiak benching them all on a rotating basis. The "gem" you are harping on was actually a pretty logical statement, at the time.
Classless move? Come on now. I only brought it up because people were saying that Houston was not a good situation for a FF RB, and now they are saying it is. For the record, GD isn't one of those people- he's been fairly consistent saying that Houston isn't a great spot long term, and his low ranking of Foster reflects that. If you think that is classless, I'd hate to see what you thought if I would've dug up some of his other quotes about Foster back then.

You're wrong about Slaton- a lot of people thought he was not a special talent nor the future of the Houston ground game. Kubiak did not ruin that because he never was. Wrong about Kubiak in general as well, but I won't bother arguing with you since you seem pretty set in your opinions.

Here's a quick breakdown on why those two positions are not as incongrous as you seem to think:

Houston is a great situation for the back currently getting the lion's share of carries because they have a successful zone blocking scheme and a deadly passing attack that opens up the running game.

Houston is not a great fantasy situation for a back you own because virtually any back can excel there (Dom Davis, Ahman Green, Steve Slaton, Derick Ward, Ryan Moats, etc.) and the situation is volitile since Kubiak has a penchant for replacing backs on a whim or going RBBC. Think Denver Broncos in the late 90s, early 00s.

Edited by Dr. Octopus

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Has anyone seen Ben Tate moved in dynasty? With all semantics aside, it seems like most of the Foster discussion has him at either top 5 or at the least top 10-12 RB long term. If he is the long term answer for HOU, does Tate EVER get a shot there? As Foster's value has soared, one would have to assume Tate's has plummeted to next to nothing. Could be a nice cheap throw in, no?

Considering his cost, i think he is well worth buying, especially for Foster owners. I havnt seen any deals involving him, buti bet h could be had for a 2nd/3rd round rookie pick, or something of similar value.
I went over and pulled up the 2010 Rookie draft thread. A lot of interesting discussion in there about Tate. Such as 'He only has Slaton/Foster ahead of him'. From the drafts that were posted, it looks like most spent a mid-late 1st to acquire Tate. I'd pay the cost of a future second-thrid as you suggest if he could be had for that.

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I'll try to explain again- I brought that quote up because GD asked for links from people saying that Houston was not a good spot for a RB earlier. I don't think that was the best example, but I picked that one because it was made by himself. Here are a few more:

tate is sick houston will be stuck with a committee forever though

Unless 2 of these 3 guys are cut or go down with an injury, I doubt anything will ever be settled in Houston.Kubiak's liable to bench his defacto starter indefinitely for having his hair parted the wrong way on game day.

My thinking is that anyone who is willing to spend a 3rd or 4th round pick on Foster, would be wise to handcuff Johnson. I don't trust Kubiak as far as I could throw him.

So people are actually spending 2nd n 3rd round picks on this guy?You know when he fumbles he is benched, then slaton or jjohnson comes in then when they fumble its the 3rd dude. and so on. Love the quote about Olandis Gary, Ryan Torain etc. etc. lol

When was the last time a Texans RB was a reliable fantasy option?

Again, these aren't necessarily the best and certainly aren't all of the quotes, but plenty of them were made after Tate was injured and/or had nothing to do with Tate. It's funny to me how some people think Houston is a terrible spot for a FF RB while others think it's great.As for Slaton, Kubiak has always wanted to add another RB because they didn't draft Slaton to be "the man". Even after his great rookie season, which he only got the chance due to numerous injuries, they were still not convinced. They actually did make an offer for Benson, but Cincy's was better. Sorry if you were fooled by Slaton, but not everyone was.

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Here's a quick breakdown on why those two positions are not as incongrous as you seem to think:Houston is a great situation for the back currently getting the lion's share of carries because they have a successful zone blocking scheme and a deadly passing attack that opens up the running game.Houston is not a great fantasy situation for a back you own because virtually any back can excel there (Dom Davis, Ahman Green, Steve Slaton, Derick Ward, Ryan Moats, etc.) and the situation is volitile since Kubiak has a penchant for replacing backs on a whim or going RBBC. Think Denver Broncos in the late 90s, early 00s.

I understand that line of thinking, but this is the dynasty thread. Why are people saying that his dynasty FF value would plummet if he left Houston, if Houston is not a great situation long term?

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Again, these aren't necessarily the best and certainly aren't all of the quotes, but plenty of them were made after Tate was injured and/or had nothing to do with Tate. It's funny to me how some people think Houston is a terrible spot for a FF RB while others think it's great.

Im going to explain this one more time. The Houston situation is GREAT for a RB, if that RB could somehow be assured of job security. I think everyone agrees on that. The part that people are disagreeing with here is how secure of a hold Foster has on the job at this point.

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Again, these aren't necessarily the best and certainly aren't all of the quotes, but plenty of them were made after Tate was injured and/or had nothing to do with Tate. It's funny to me how some people think Houston is a terrible spot for a FF RB while others think it's great.

Im going to explain this one more time. The Houston situation is GREAT for a RB, if that RB could somehow be assured of job security. I think everyone agrees on that. The part that people are disagreeing with here is how secure of a hold Foster has on the job at this point.

I'm going to explain this one more time- we're in the dynasty thread, so we're talking long term value. You said yourself that Houston is NOT a great long term spot for a RB, yet other people are saying his dynasty value would plummet if you took him out of Houston, so they obviously think Houston is a great long term spot for him. Get it?

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Again, these aren't necessarily the best and certainly aren't all of the quotes, but plenty of them were made after Tate was injured and/or had nothing to do with Tate. It's funny to me how some people think Houston is a terrible spot for a FF RB while others think it's great.

Im going to explain this one more time. The Houston situation is GREAT for a RB, if that RB could somehow be assured of job security. I think everyone agrees on that. The part that people are disagreeing with here is how secure of a hold Foster has on the job at this point.

I'm going to explain this one more time- we're in the dynasty thread, so we're talking long term value. You said yourself that Houston is NOT a great long term spot for a RB, yet other people are saying his dynasty value would plummet if you took him out of Houston, so they obviously think Houston is a great long term spot for him. Get it?
Oh, i get it. Im just not sure you do. Either way, i think i have made my point, wether you understand it or not and now im done. :shrug:

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Despite the fact that I actually do like Foster quite a bit, what I am learning from this discussion is that it is indeed time to shop him and see if I can't steal someone like MJD for him.

Folks, he's good and a safe bet to be a top 10 (or higher) player as long as he remains in Houston. The fact is, he still is only good and not elite (I count 5 running backs in the entire NFL with elite talent by my estimation- Peterson, Johnson, MJD, DeAngelo, Stewart...and yes, I left Ray Rice off because I am not convinced he is elite. Perhaps a step above Arian Foster in talent, but not in the same class as the 5 I just mentioned), and if his Houston situation changes he goes from top 10 upside to top 15-20 upside. If people are in love with him, and some of the discussion in this thread seems to indicate people are OVERLY in love with him, it's time to see if he is able to be traded for an elite talent.

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Again, these aren't necessarily the best and certainly aren't all of the quotes, but plenty of them were made after Tate was injured and/or had nothing to do with Tate. It's funny to me how some people think Houston is a terrible spot for a FF RB while others think it's great.

Im going to explain this one more time. The Houston situation is GREAT for a RB, if that RB could somehow be assured of job security. I think everyone agrees on that. The part that people are disagreeing with here is how secure of a hold Foster has on the job at this point.

I'm going to explain this one more time- we're in the dynasty thread, so we're talking long term value. You said yourself that Houston is NOT a great long term spot for a RB, yet other people are saying his dynasty value would plummet if you took him out of Houston, so they obviously think Houston is a great long term spot for him. Get it?
Why does it have to be so cut and dry? It is great for putting up numbers, if you can keep the job. It is harder to keep the job. I don't understand what you don't understand about that. If you absolutely have to view things as either good or bad, you make that call. But don't point to our views as inconsistencies, because we don't have to view things that way.

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Here's a quick breakdown on why those two positions are not as incongrous as you seem to think:

Houston is a great situation for the back currently getting the lion's share of carries because they have a successful zone blocking scheme and a deadly passing attack that opens up the running game.

Houston is not a great fantasy situation for a back you own because virtually any back can excel there (Dom Davis, Ahman Green, Steve Slaton, Derick Ward, Ryan Moats, etc.) and the situation is volitile since Kubiak has a penchant for replacing backs on a whim or going RBBC. Think Denver Broncos in the late 90s, early 00s.

I understand that line of thinking, but this is the dynasty thread. Why are people saying that his dynasty FF value would plummet if he left Houston, if Houston is not a great situation long term?
I'm sure you know the answer to this. People may think that a large part of his success comes from playing in the Houston system. Look what a journeyman like Ryan Moats did last season in Houston. He can't even latch on with another team, that's how talented he truly is. Therefore some people think Foster might not be as successful in another system.

Honestly I'm not really sure one way or the other at this point. I own him in a redraft and I'm thrilled to have him. I don't own him in any dynasty leagues and would probably be hesitent to trade for him (depending on the price of course, I did lamost land him for Favre before the season started), but if I did own him in a dynasty I'd probably hold and ride him out and see what happens.

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Despite the fact that I actually do like Foster quite a bit, what I am learning from this discussion is that it is indeed time to shop him and see if I can't steal someone like MJD for him.

Folks, he's good and a safe bet to be a top 10 (or higher) player as long as he remains in Houston. The fact is, he still is only good and not elite (I count 5 running backs in the entire NFL with elite talent by my estimation- Peterson, Johnson, MJD, DeAngelo, Stewart...and yes, I left Ray Rice off because I am not convinced he is elite. Perhaps a step above Arian Foster in talent, but not in the same class as the 5 I just mentioned), and if his Houston situation changes he goes from top 10 upside to top 15-20 upside. If people are in love with him, and some of the discussion in this thread seems to indicate people are OVERLY in love with him, it's time to see if he is able to be traded for an elite talent.

I think there are a hadnful of guys you could add to that list, but one that i think definitely belongs in that group is Jamaal Charles.

ETA, even though they are older, Gore, and especially Steven Jackson belong on that list.

Edited by Go deep

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Again, these aren't necessarily the best and certainly aren't all of the quotes, but plenty of them were made after Tate was injured and/or had nothing to do with Tate. It's funny to me how some people think Houston is a terrible spot for a FF RB while others think it's great.

Im going to explain this one more time. The Houston situation is GREAT for a RB, if that RB could somehow be assured of job security. I think everyone agrees on that. The part that people are disagreeing with here is how secure of a hold Foster has on the job at this point.

I'm going to explain this one more time- we're in the dynasty thread, so we're talking long term value. You said yourself that Houston is NOT a great long term spot for a RB, yet other people are saying his dynasty value would plummet if you took him out of Houston, so they obviously think Houston is a great long term spot for him. Get it?
Why does it have to be so cut and dry? It is great for putting up numbers, if you can keep the job. It is harder to keep the job. I don't understand what you don't understand about that. If you absolutely have to view things as either good or bad, you make that call. But don't point to our views as inconsistencies, because we don't have to view things that way.
Because it is cut and dried. When you form your opinion on how "good" or "bad" a situation is, you should factor in as many variables as you can, including if it's good for putting up numbers and if it's hard to keep the job. Hypothetically, come up with whatever variables you feel are important and rank them all on a scale, weight them however you want, and you come up with your overall opinion on the Houston FF RB situation. It's obviously fluid and those variables can change, but right now, is Houston a great spot for a FF RB long term or not? It's a cut and dried opinion. Some think it is (yourself), some think it is not (GD).

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Again, these aren't necessarily the best and certainly aren't all of the quotes, but plenty of them were made after Tate was injured and/or had nothing to do with Tate. It's funny to me how some people think Houston is a terrible spot for a FF RB while others think it's great.

Im going to explain this one more time. The Houston situation is GREAT for a RB, if that RB could somehow be assured of job security. I think everyone agrees on that. The part that people are disagreeing with here is how secure of a hold Foster has on the job at this point.

I'm going to explain this one more time- we're in the dynasty thread, so we're talking long term value. You said yourself that Houston is NOT a great long term spot for a RB, yet other people are saying his dynasty value would plummet if you took him out of Houston, so they obviously think Houston is a great long term spot for him. Get it?
Why does it have to be so cut and dry? It is great for putting up numbers, if you can keep the job. It is harder to keep the job. I don't understand what you don't understand about that. If you absolutely have to view things as either good or bad, you make that call. But don't point to our views as inconsistencies, because we don't have to view things that way.
Because it is cut and dried. When you form your opinion on how "good" or "bad" a situation is, you should factor in as many variables as you can, including if it's good for putting up numbers and if it's hard to keep the job. Hypothetically, come up with whatever variables you feel are important and rank them all on a scale, weight them however you want, and you come up with your overall opinion on the Houston FF RB situation. It's obviously fluid and those variables can change, but right now, is Houston a great spot for a FF RB long term or not? It's a cut and dried opinion. Some think it is (yourself), some think it is not (GD).
Why is it so important for you to view it that way, or better yet, for others to view it that way. I have clearly stated my opinion on the matter, both the positives and the negatives. You decide if that fits into your catagories: good or bad.

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Again, these aren't necessarily the best and certainly aren't all of the quotes, but plenty of them were made after Tate was injured and/or had nothing to do with Tate. It's funny to me how some people think Houston is a terrible spot for a FF RB while others think it's great.

Im going to explain this one more time. The Houston situation is GREAT for a RB, if that RB could somehow be assured of job security. I think everyone agrees on that. The part that people are disagreeing with here is how secure of a hold Foster has on the job at this point.

I'm going to explain this one more time- we're in the dynasty thread, so we're talking long term value. You said yourself that Houston is NOT a great long term spot for a RB, yet other people are saying his dynasty value would plummet if you took him out of Houston, so they obviously think Houston is a great long term spot for him. Get it?
Why does it have to be so cut and dry? It is great for putting up numbers, if you can keep the job. It is harder to keep the job. I don't understand what you don't understand about that. If you absolutely have to view things as either good or bad, you make that call. But don't point to our views as inconsistencies, because we don't have to view things that way.
Because it is cut and dried. When you form your opinion on how "good" or "bad" a situation is, you should factor in as many variables as you can, including if it's good for putting up numbers and if it's hard to keep the job. Hypothetically, come up with whatever variables you feel are important and rank them all on a scale, weight them however you want, and you come up with your overall opinion on the Houston FF RB situation. It's obviously fluid and those variables can change, but right now, is Houston a great spot for a FF RB long term or not? It's a cut and dried opinion. Some think it is (yourself), some think it is not (GD).

:lmao:

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I'll try to explain again- I brought that quote up because GD asked for links from people saying that Houston was not a good spot for a RB earlier. I don't think that was the best example, but I picked that one because it was made by himself. Here are a few more:

tate is sick houston will be stuck with a committee forever though

Unless 2 of these 3 guys are cut or go down with an injury, I doubt anything will ever be settled in Houston.Kubiak's liable to bench his defacto starter indefinitely for having his hair parted the wrong way on game day.

My thinking is that anyone who is willing to spend a 3rd or 4th round pick on Foster, would be wise to handcuff Johnson. I don't trust Kubiak as far as I could throw him.

So people are actually spending 2nd n 3rd round picks on this guy?You know when he fumbles he is benched, then slaton or jjohnson comes in then when they fumble its the 3rd dude. and so on. Love the quote about Olandis Gary, Ryan Torain etc. etc. lol

Again, these aren't necessarily the best and certainly aren't all of the quotes, but plenty of them were made after Tate was injured and/or had nothing to do with Tate. It's funny to me how some people think Houston is a terrible spot for a FF RB while others think it's great.As for Slaton, Kubiak has always wanted to add another RB because they didn't draft Slaton to be "the man". Even after his great rookie season, which he only got the chance due to numerous injuries, they were still not convinced. They actually did make an offer for Benson, but Cincy's was better. Sorry if you were fooled by Slaton, but not everyone was.
:lmao:

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Despite the fact that I actually do like Foster quite a bit, what I am learning from this discussion is that it is indeed time to shop him and see if I can't steal someone like MJD for him.

Folks, he's good and a safe bet to be a top 10 (or higher) player as long as he remains in Houston. The fact is, he still is only good and not elite (I count 5 running backs in the entire NFL with elite talent by my estimation- Peterson, Johnson, MJD, DeAngelo, Stewart...and yes, I left Ray Rice off because I am not convinced he is elite. Perhaps a step above Arian Foster in talent, but not in the same class as the 5 I just mentioned), and if his Houston situation changes he goes from top 10 upside to top 15-20 upside. If people are in love with him, and some of the discussion in this thread seems to indicate people are OVERLY in love with him, it's time to see if he is able to be traded for an elite talent.

I think there are a hadnful of guys you could add to that list, but one that i think definitely belongs in that group is Jamaal Charles.

ETA, even though they are older, Gore, and especially Steven Jackson belong on that list.

:lmao:

I think a healthy Beanie Wells could be in a year too; health being a big if.

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Despite the fact that I actually do like Foster quite a bit, what I am learning from this discussion is that it is indeed time to shop him and see if I can't steal someone like MJD for him.

Folks, he's good and a safe bet to be a top 10 (or higher) player as long as he remains in Houston. The fact is, he still is only good and not elite (I count 5 running backs in the entire NFL with elite talent by my estimation- Peterson, Johnson, MJD, DeAngelo, Stewart...and yes, I left Ray Rice off because I am not convinced he is elite. Perhaps a step above Arian Foster in talent, but not in the same class as the 5 I just mentioned), and if his Houston situation changes he goes from top 10 upside to top 15-20 upside. If people are in love with him, and some of the discussion in this thread seems to indicate people are OVERLY in love with him, it's time to see if he is able to be traded for an elite talent.

I think there are a hadnful of guys you could add to that list, but one that i think definitely belongs in that group is Jamaal Charles.

ETA, even though they are older, Gore, and especially Steven Jackson belong on that list.

<_<

I think a healthy Beanie Wells could be in a year too; health being a big if.

I still am not sold on Charles and don't necessarily view him as anymore talented than Foster outright. Ditto Beanie Wells (I am a BIG Beanie Wells fan, but his inability to put Hightower on the bench is becoming a concern). I think both of these players are in the same realm as Foster. I also am discounting Steven Jackson and Frank Gore for this discussion, as I'm taking a dynasty view and their age is too much of a concern.

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:lmao:

I asked you if having Kubiak was a bad thing long term for Foster because he can't be trusted, and you said yes. I assumed that meant that you don't think Houston is a great long term spot for him.If you do, then you must really think he lacks talent- you have him at RB #22, even though he's a young RB in a "great" situation?

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Despite the fact that I actually do like Foster quite a bit, what I am learning from this discussion is that it is indeed time to shop him and see if I can't steal someone like MJD for him.

Folks, he's good and a safe bet to be a top 10 (or higher) player as long as he remains in Houston. The fact is, he still is only good and not elite (I count 5 running backs in the entire NFL with elite talent by my estimation- Peterson, Johnson, MJD, DeAngelo, Stewart...and yes, I left Ray Rice off because I am not convinced he is elite. Perhaps a step above Arian Foster in talent, but not in the same class as the 5 I just mentioned), and if his Houston situation changes he goes from top 10 upside to top 15-20 upside. If people are in love with him, and some of the discussion in this thread seems to indicate people are OVERLY in love with him, it's time to see if he is able to be traded for an elite talent.

I think there are a hadnful of guys you could add to that list, but one that i think definitely belongs in that group is Jamaal Charles.

ETA, even though they are older, Gore, and especially Steven Jackson belong on that list.

:lmao:

I think a healthy Beanie Wells could be in a year too; health being a big if.

I still am not sold on Charles and don't necessarily view him as anymore talented than Foster outright. Ditto Beanie Wells (I am a BIG Beanie Wells fan, but his inability to put Hightower on the bench is becoming a concern). I think both of these players are in the same realm as Foster. I also am discounting Steven Jackson and Frank Gore for this discussion, as I'm taking a dynasty view and their age is too much of a concern.

Deangelo is the same age as Gore and Jackson. Foster may be more talented than i am giving him credit for, but i can say with certainty that he is not as talented as Charles.

I think the Cardinals are just being cautious with Wells with him coming off an injury and the fact the team is in shambles, there is no need to rush him.

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:tinfoilhat:

I asked you if having Kubiak was a bad thing long term for Foster because he can't be trusted, and you said yes. I assumed that meant that you don't think Houston is a great long term spot for him.If you do, then you must really think he lacks talent- you have him at RB #22, even though he's a young RB in a "great" situation?
I think you should go back and read the last couple of pages a little more carefully.

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:lmao:

I asked you if having Kubiak was a bad thing long term for Foster because he can't be trusted, and you said yes. I assumed that meant that you don't think Houston is a great long term spot for him.If you do, then you must really think he lacks talent- you have him at RB #22, even though he's a young RB in a "great" situation?
I encouarge people to pay more attention to a players DS(dynasty score) than their ranking. For example, there is a bigger gap between #3 RB MJD and the #6 RB Ray Rice(14 points) than there is between RB #9 Rashard Mendenhall and #22 RB Arian Foster(12 points).You are right, i dont think Houston is a great long term spot for Foster. However, i think Houston is his only shot at any long term future because of how RB friendly the Texans system is. If it means anything to you, i would likely have Foster in my top 5 redrafts RB's this year.

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Despite the fact that I actually do like Foster quite a bit, what I am learning from this discussion is that it is indeed time to shop him and see if I can't steal someone like MJD for him.

Folks, he's good and a safe bet to be a top 10 (or higher) player as long as he remains in Houston. The fact is, he still is only good and not elite (I count 5 running backs in the entire NFL with elite talent by my estimation- Peterson, Johnson, MJD, DeAngelo, Stewart...and yes, I left Ray Rice off because I am not convinced he is elite. Perhaps a step above Arian Foster in talent, but not in the same class as the 5 I just mentioned), and if his Houston situation changes he goes from top 10 upside to top 15-20 upside. If people are in love with him, and some of the discussion in this thread seems to indicate people are OVERLY in love with him, it's time to see if he is able to be traded for an elite talent.

I think there are a hadnful of guys you could add to that list, but one that i think definitely belongs in that group is Jamaal Charles.

ETA, even though they are older, Gore, and especially Steven Jackson belong on that list.

:lmao:

I think a healthy Beanie Wells could be in a year too; health being a big if.

I still am not sold on Charles and don't necessarily view him as anymore talented than Foster outright. Ditto Beanie Wells (I am a BIG Beanie Wells fan, but his inability to put Hightower on the bench is becoming a concern). I think both of these players are in the same realm as Foster. I also am discounting Steven Jackson and Frank Gore for this discussion, as I'm taking a dynasty view and their age is too much of a concern.

Deangelo is the same age as Gore and Jackson. Foster may be more talented than i am giving him credit for, but i can say with certainty that he is not as talented as Charles.

I think the Cardinals are just being cautious with Wells with him coming off an injury and the fact the team is in shambles, there is no need to rush him.

Come to think of it, you are dead right on the DeAngelo age issue. Not sure why I would discount Gore and Jackson for it but not him. Consider it a mistake and make it 7 elite talents!

I still totally disagree on Charles. I have watched him play at various times and have come away impressed, but not in awe. Essentially, it is the same impression I get when watching Foster play. They are 2 very different players, so Charles leaves more of an impression when he rips a long TD, but on a carry by carry basis, to me he is not any more impressive and does not flash significantly different or greater talent than Foster.

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Why is it so important for you to view it that way, or better yet, for others to view it that way. I have clearly stated my opinion on the matter, both the positives and the negatives. You decide if that fits into your catagories: good or bad.

Think of it like this- when scouts rank a player, they give them a grade on dozens of variables. They then compile them all into one overall grade. If a player is considered a 7.2 overall by someone, that's it. You don't say they're a 7.2 overall but only a 5.2 for agility. That 5.2 is already factored in their overall score, just like Kubiak's handling of RBs should be factored into the overall Houston running situation (along with all the other positives and negatives). You then compare them to the other players graded using the same criteria to rank them. It sounds to me like a lot of people think Houston is great short term, not great long term, and I get that. However, this is the dynasty thread, so we're talking about overall long term value. If Houston is not great long term, then it's not such a certainty that Foster's long term dynasty value would plummet if he were no longer in Houston, correct?

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I still totally disagree on Charles. I have watched him play at various times and have come away impressed, but not in awe. Essentially, it is the same impression I get when watching Foster play. They are 2 very different players, so Charles leaves more of an impression when he rips a long TD, but on a carry by carry basis, to me he is not any more impressive and does not flash significantly different or greater talent than Foster.

Fair enough, but i have a feeling if the two players swapped teams, the difference would clear.

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I encouarge people to pay more attention to a players DS(dynasty score) than their ranking. For example, there is a bigger gap between #3 RB MJD and the #6 RB Ray Rice(14 points) than there is between RB #9 Rashard Mendenhall and #22 RB Arian Foster(12 points).You are right, i dont think Houston is a great long term spot for Foster. However, i think Houston is his only shot at any long term future because of how RB friendly the Texans system is. If it means anything to you, i would likely have Foster in my top 5 redrafts RB's this year.

:confused: Now I am confused- you say you don't think Houston is a great long term spot for Foster, but then in the very next sentence you say you think it's his ONLY shot at ANY long term future. If it's his only shot, wouldn't that mean it's the best possible spot for him (being the only one)?

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I encouarge people to pay more attention to a players DS(dynasty score) than their ranking. For example, there is a bigger gap between #3 RB MJD and the #6 RB Ray Rice(14 points) than there is between RB #9 Rashard Mendenhall and #22 RB Arian Foster(12 points).You are right, i dont think Houston is a great long term spot for Foster. However, i think Houston is his only shot at any long term future because of how RB friendly the Texans system is. If it means anything to you, i would likely have Foster in my top 5 redrafts RB's this year.

:goodposting: Now I am confused- you say you don't think Houston is a great long term spot for Foster, but then in the very next sentence you say you think it's his ONLY shot at ANY long term future. If it's his only shot, wouldn't that mean it's the best possible spot for him (being the only one)?
Yes, there is a chance that Foster sticks with Houston for a few years, which would make him a top 10 dynasty RB. However, once he is no longer Houstons starting RB, he will be almost worthless.

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I encouarge people to pay more attention to a players DS(dynasty score) than their ranking. For example, there is a bigger gap between #3 RB MJD and the #6 RB Ray Rice(14 points) than there is between RB #9 Rashard Mendenhall and #22 RB Arian Foster(12 points).

You are right, i dont think Houston is a great long term spot for Foster. However, i think Houston is his only shot at any long term future because of how RB friendly the Texans system is. If it means anything to you, i would likely have Foster in my top 5 redrafts RB's this year.

:goodposting:

Now I am confused- you say you don't think Houston is a great long term spot for Foster, but then in the very next sentence you say you think it's his ONLY shot at ANY long term future. If it's his only shot, wouldn't that mean it's the best possible spot for him (being the only one)?

Yes, there is a chance that Foster sticks with Houston for a few years, which would make him a top 10 dynasty RB. However, once he is no longer Houstons starting RB, he will be almost worthless.

Based on what I've seen thus far from AF, there are a lot of teams that would benefit from his presence. Both NFL and FF-wise.

Edited by identikit

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To spark a new conversation, because the Arian Foster discussion has mostly run its course for now, what are people's thoughts on Beanie Wells at this point?

Almost everyone that has watched him play would agree he most definitely passes the eye test, yet he has been completely unable to take the starting job away from Tim Hightower (a mediocre player). What are we attributing this to- pure stubborn foolishness by his head coach? Injuries? Are we overrating his skill?

Are people still as high on his long term prospects?

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I encouarge people to pay more attention to a players DS(dynasty score) than their ranking. For example, there is a bigger gap between #3 RB MJD and the #6 RB Ray Rice(14 points) than there is between RB #9 Rashard Mendenhall and #22 RB Arian Foster(12 points).

You are right, i dont think Houston is a great long term spot for Foster. However, i think Houston is his only shot at any long term future because of how RB friendly the Texans system is. If it means anything to you, i would likely have Foster in my top 5 redrafts RB's this year.

:goodposting:

Now I am confused- you say you don't think Houston is a great long term spot for Foster, but then in the very next sentence you say you think it's his ONLY shot at ANY long term future. If it's his only shot, wouldn't that mean it's the best possible spot for him (being the only one)?

Yes, there is a chance that Foster sticks with Houston for a few years, which would make him a top 10 dynasty RB. However, once he is no longer Houstons starting RB, he will be almost worthless.

Based on what I've seen thus far from AF, there are a lot of teams that would benefit from his presence. Both NFL and FF-wise.

Sure, assuming Kubiak, and the Texans offense came with him. Hypothetically speaking, if the Texans let Foster walk after the season, and he went to Washngton, and the Texans went with Tate as their starter, i would MUCH rather have Tate than Foster as my dynasty RB.

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To spark a new conversation, because the Arian Foster discussion has mostly run its course for now, what are people's thoughts on Beanie Wells at this point?Almost everyone that has watched him play would agree he most definitely passes the eye test, yet he has been completely unable to take the starting job away from Tim Hightower (a mediocre player). What are we attributing this to- pure stubborn foolishness by his head coach? Injuries? Are we overrating his skill?Are people still as high on his long term prospects?

I still have him as my #11 dynasty back because i believe in his talent, and it will only be a matter of time before he is the workhorse for the Cards. It likely wont be this year, but thats a good thing as this is a transition year for the Cardinals.

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I encouarge people to pay more attention to a players DS(dynasty score) than their ranking. For example, there is a bigger gap between #3 RB MJD and the #6 RB Ray Rice(14 points) than there is between RB #9 Rashard Mendenhall and #22 RB Arian Foster(12 points).

You are right, i dont think Houston is a great long term spot for Foster. However, i think Houston is his only shot at any long term future because of how RB friendly the Texans system is. If it means anything to you, i would likely have Foster in my top 5 redrafts RB's this year.

:lmao:

Now I am confused- you say you don't think Houston is a great long term spot for Foster, but then in the very next sentence you say you think it's his ONLY shot at ANY long term future. If it's his only shot, wouldn't that mean it's the best possible spot for him (being the only one)?

Yes, there is a chance that Foster sticks with Houston for a few years, which would make him a top 10 dynasty RB. However, once he is no longer Houstons starting RB, he will be almost worthless.

Based on what I've seen thus far from AF, there are a lot of teams that would benefit from his presence. Both NFL and FF-wise.

Sure, assuming Kubiak, and the Texans offense came with him. Hypothetically speaking, if the Texans let Foster walk after the season, and he went to Washngton, and the Texans went with Tate as their starter, i would MUCH rather have Tate than Foster as my dynasty RB.

Sure, because no other coach and/or team in the entire NFL has a prolific offense and know how to use a very good rb.

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Why is it so important for you to view it that way, or better yet, for others to view it that way. I have clearly stated my opinion on the matter, both the positives and the negatives. You decide if that fits into your catagories: good or bad.

Think of it like this- when scouts rank a player, they give them a grade on dozens of variables. They then compile them all into one overall grade. If a player is considered a 7.2 overall by someone, that's it. You don't say they're a 7.2 overall but only a 5.2 for agility. That 5.2 is already factored in their overall score, just like Kubiak's handling of RBs should be factored into the overall Houston running situation (along with all the other positives and negatives). You then compare them to the other players graded using the same criteria to rank them. It sounds to me like a lot of people think Houston is great short term, not great long term, and I get that. However, this is the dynasty thread, so we're talking about overall long term value. If Houston is not great long term, then it's not such a certainty that Foster's long term dynasty value would plummet if he were no longer in Houston, correct?
Houston is high risk, high reward. If you can keep the job, it is great. If not, not so much. Right now, because Foster doesn't have competition, it is great. If Houston doesn't want to pay the money, or if Tate is legit, it might not be so great.For Arian Foster, it is a good situation, because it fits his skill-set. But again, if he starts fumbling, wants too much money, or if Tate, or any other back they bring in is better than Foster, it might not be so great in a year or two. Edited by Concept Coop

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I encouarge people to pay more attention to a players DS(dynasty score) than their ranking. For example, there is a bigger gap between #3 RB MJD and the #6 RB Ray Rice(14 points) than there is between RB #9 Rashard Mendenhall and #22 RB Arian Foster(12 points).You are right, i dont think Houston is a great long term spot for Foster. However, i think Houston is his only shot at any long term future because of how RB friendly the Texans system is. If it means anything to you, i would likely have Foster in my top 5 redrafts RB's this year.

:lmao: Now I am confused- you say you don't think Houston is a great long term spot for Foster, but then in the very next sentence you say you think it's his ONLY shot at ANY long term future. If it's his only shot, wouldn't that mean it's the best possible spot for him (being the only one)?
Yes, there is a chance that Foster sticks with Houston for a few years, which would make him a top 10 dynasty RB. However, once he is no longer Houstons starting RB, he will be almost worthless.
So now you are saying that Houston IS great spot for Foster long term, when right above you said it isn't. And I'm the one not getting it?

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To spark a new conversation, because the Arian Foster discussion has mostly run its course for now, what are people's thoughts on Beanie Wells at this point?Almost everyone that has watched him play would agree he most definitely passes the eye test, yet he has been completely unable to take the starting job away from Tim Hightower (a mediocre player). What are we attributing this to- pure stubborn foolishness by his head coach? Injuries? Are we overrating his skill?Are people still as high on his long term prospects?

I really like what I see. He has everything you look for. But you're right, he hasn't taken the job and I don't quite understand why. I would have him as a top 10 dynasty back. I haven't done rankings since July, when I was finishing up my last startup drafts, but I had him at #7. I would move him down a bit, based on what you outlined and the rise of other players.

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Sure, because no other coach and/or team in the entire NFL has a prolific offense and know how to use a very good rb.

Obviously this is the part we disagree on.

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Sure, because no other coach and/or team in the entire NFL has a prolific offense and know how to use a very good rb.

Obviously this is the part we disagree on.

Actually, I can respect your opinion on AF himself; it's the corner you painted yourself into regarding every other team in the NFL.

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Think of it this way: Would you rather have a $100 bill, or a 50/50 shot at $200? Is either better than the other? Houston is high risk, high reward. If you can keep the job, it is great. If not, not so much. Right now, because Foster doesn't have competition, it is great. If Houston doesn't want to pay the money, or if Tate is legit, it might not be so great.

Yes, but either way you have to make the decision right now without a crystal ball. You can't go back and forth with the pros and cons of each scenario until you know the outcomes. There are both positives and negatives of the Houston running game and of your analogy, you have to make a decision. You can't say "The Houston running game is great if the RB can keep the job", or "I want the $200 if I know I'm going to get it". Knowing what we know now, is the Houston running game a great situation for a RB long term or not? That's what you have to decide, factoring in the high risk/reward. Overall, I'd say it's a good situation, but not so good that it is the main reason for his success, or that his value would plummet no matter where else he went, like others have said.

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Question for those that have Best ranked a lot higher than CJ Spiller: Do you like Best's talent more and did you like him more before the NFL Draft?

I would take Best over Spiller, based on what we have seen this season, so far. But I viewed them as pretty close after the NFL draft. I like Spiller more before the draft. But I seem to have them ranked closer than most, at this point in their careers.

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To spark a new conversation, because the Arian Foster discussion has mostly run its course for now, what are people's thoughts on Beanie Wells at this point?Almost everyone that has watched him play would agree he most definitely passes the eye test, yet he has been completely unable to take the starting job away from Tim Hightower (a mediocre player). What are we attributing this to- pure stubborn foolishness by his head coach? Injuries? Are we overrating his skill?Are people still as high on his long term prospects?

I think it's a bit early to panic. Beanie was hurt the first two games and Arizona was out of the game before it started last week. That said, Whisenhunt comes across as a guy who likes to play games and teach lessons. That worries me more than anything.ETA: Another thing to consider is that Beanie just turned 22. Edited by GreatLakesMike

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Question for those that have Best ranked a lot higher than CJ Spiller: Do you like Best's talent more and did you like him more before the NFL Draft? I would take Best over Spiller, based on what we have seen this season, so far. But I viewed them as pretty close after the NFL draft. I like Spiller more before the draft. But I seem to have them ranked closer than most, at this point in their careers.

I've been debating the same thing. I feel like Spiller is more valuable for the long term because he doesn't appear as fragile as Best (concussions, turf toe) but Best is in a better situation for playing time. Best also has no competition which is huge. They are probably about even considering Spiller is probably the better overall talent.

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Question for those that have Best ranked a lot higher than CJ Spiller: Do you like Best's talent more and did you like him more before the NFL Draft? I would take Best over Spiller, based on what we have seen this season, so far. But I viewed them as pretty close after the NFL draft. I like Spiller more before the draft. But I seem to have them ranked closer than most, at this point in their careers.

I was one of the ones that thought Best was a better talent, but I think it's impossible to accurately judge Spiller at this point. It's entirely possible that Spiller would have identical or better numbers if he was in Best's situation.

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Question for those that have Best ranked a lot higher than CJ Spiller: Do you like Best's talent more and did you like him more before the NFL Draft? I would take Best over Spiller, based on what we have seen this season, so far. But I viewed them as pretty close after the NFL draft. I like Spiller more before the draft. But I seem to have them ranked closer than most, at this point in their careers.

I was one of the ones that thought Best was a better talent, but I think it's impossible to accurately judge Spiller at this point. It's entirely possible that Spiller would have identical or better numbers if he was in Best's situation.
Agreed completely. I evaluated Best higher than Spiller because I believe that Best is superior at running through the middle and behind blockers. He's got breakaway speed but is very patient in using it. I thought Spiller would just run all out right off the bat instead of allowing a play to develop as designed.

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