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Dynasty Rankings (5 Viewers)

eaglesfan7 said:
I'm a Foster owner and have tried to get Ben Tate for insurance for future seasons but the owner who has him won't budge. I can't figure out the value of Tate. What should I be trying to give up to get Tate? Role player? Future pick? I don't know what to do.
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I would call his bluff, before I would get unreasonable. With Slaton, and to a greater extent, Ward in the picture, I don't think any Tate owner has the luxury of a sure-fire handcuff. He is more of a lottery ticket. I would trade a 2nd for him in my RB heavy leagues, no more than a 3rd or two in standard leagues. I would only consider overpaying once he is the clear handcuff, during camp next year. Because that might not happen, you might not lose anything, like you would if you purchase now.Or, I would go and get a major handcuff of his, which I always love to do! :lmao:
 
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SSOG said:
bweiser said:
Anyone else starting to wish they would have sold high on Matt Schaub in the offseason? Really a disappointment this year.
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I owned Schaub and Roeth last season and was faced with the choice of trading either, and I deliberately sold Schaub over Roeth. I was sweating it for a while (especially over the offseason as Roethlisberger did his best to get kicked out of the league), but the results this season have restored my faith in the decision and reminded me why I made it in the first place. Schaub was never as talented as the guys ranked around him. Guys like that can be very productive for a very long time (witness: Marc Bulger, Rudi Johnson), but at the same time, their value can evaporate a lot more quickly than the guys ranked strictly on ability.Schaub has been seriously hurt by Houston's developing running game. He was last year's Kyle Orton. I'd take this opportunity to caution Orton owners about holding on to him... except for some reason, Orton's perceived value doesn't seem to be skyrocketing this season like Schaub's did last season. In most of my fantasy leagues, he's the #2 fantasy QB between Rivers and Manning, yet people are reluctant to give so much as a handful of beans for him. When the Brees owner in my dynasty league suggested that the reason he was willing to trade Brees was because he had Orton and Bradshaw on his bench, he was laughed at.All that said, it's not like Schaub's career is over. He's still just 29. He still plays for a phenomenal offensive mind. He still has Andre Johnson to throw to. If I owned him, I'd be holding him until he rides out his current slump.
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Just looking at your rankings, you still have Schaub ahead of Flacco ... both have dropped about 10 points since August in your rankings. My fear is that Gary Kubiak is a good coach, which means he knows he needs a running game and defense to win ... And we've already seen the running game come far this year. I agree that that is the biggest single factor in Schaub's downfall this year. I think for fantasy purposes, I'd rather have a QB on a pass-happy offense even if he isn't as talented as another guy. I'll probably stick with Schaub over Flacco ... Just I know this is about the final chance I have to make this deal.
 
SSOG said:
Also, sorry for the delay on the rankings update, guys, but this week instead of just tweaking my existing rankings, I'm starting completely over from scratch. It produces a more accurate set of rankings, but obviously it takes a lot longer. I've got the Quarterback rankings updated and a change log available for you guys to peruse. I'm going to knock out the TEs right now because they should be relatively quick, but the RBs and WRs are taking a while and probably won't be finished until late tonight.
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So Eli Manning is a better dynasty QB than McNabb now. Glad to see that change that was rather obvious a few weeks back. :thumbdown: Also great job on the website - it's extremely well done both asthetically and "intellectually". No one is ever going to agree about everything - but it creates a great jumping off point for discussion and a great reference to start out with.

ETA: Things that jump out at me in the QB rankings are Orton and Vick being way too high and Sanchez and Stafford being way too low. Sanchez was putting together quite a nice season for a second year player and while his final stats look bad this week he actually played decently. He had a few bad drops and both interceptions came from the defensive back ripping the ball away from the WR after they "caught" it.

I like Orton, but think he's slowing down quite a bit and McDaniels could be on the outs soon and his system is certainly a help to Orton's production. There's no need to rehash the Vick discussion from pages back.

 
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J-Dawg said:
To continue the Arian Foster discussion, do you think he is a sell-high in dynasty leagues this off-season? He seems to be in a perfect storm and his value is at its absolute highest point and I don't know what to think of him 2 or 3 years down the road. To me I'm worried of him being another Rudi Johnson where he'll dominate for a few years and then fade away after that. I'm on the fence about whether taking advantage of his great year to make a killing is worth it or if he's the type of guy you'd be wanting to build around.
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He's shown that he's mopre dynamic than Johnson already, but even so what's worng with 3-4 years of solid production from a RB?You really can't expect a whole lot more than that anyway.

 
Concept Coop said:
Fear & Loathing said:
Steed said:
Fear & Loathing said:
If McFadden gets an emphatic "meh" from you, I've lost faith in your ability to judge football talent. Unless, of course, you're not watching him consistently this season. You know what they say about the eye in the sky.
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This is a little harsh.
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Maybe, but it's also true. I've always appreciated EBF's ability to judge talent, so I'm hoping he just hasn't seen much of McFadden this year.
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What is so hard to, believe? EBF made a couple good points: Did the Raiders change, or did DMC change? and: RBs rarely go from bad, or below average, to great. History shows it more likely that Oakland changed, than DMC changed. So lets assume that it is a little of both. DMC is maturing and being more patient, and the OAK scheme, line, and skill players put DMC in a better position.

If you pride yourself of judging talent - so well that you KNOW that an opposing view on McFadden is simply un-thinkably wrong - you also know that RB is one of the hardest spots to judge: there are so many variables. For the same reason that late round runningbacks can regularly perform at high levels,again, external variables. Assuming we all agree on those, and remove them from the "vacuum", there is still one factor that applies to the RB position much more than any other: burst. Again, assuming you are as skilled or practiced as you think you are, you know burst is one of the more subjective, hard-to-define, intagible qualities that a player can have. We can all agree that McFaden has it right now. Under the same assumptions regarding your eability to judge talent: we can also assume that burst + room = production. I can point to any number of backs this year, or any year, really - Torain, Foster, Barber, Bradshaw to name a few.

So let's assume that DMC is a great talent, in a vacuum, independant of our burst + room = production equation. What do we have? What does he have that makes him better than average, better than above average, better than just good? He is faster than most backs in the NFL, elite even. He has good quickness and good vision, which most NFL runningbacks do. He still lacks balance, and while his patience is coming around, it is not above average. Other than that, what makes him great? Please help me understand what I am missing. Because I can tell you why, based on NFL play, McFadden would not be having this resurgence in Dallas, and if Felix was in Oakland, he would.

And before you "lose all faith" in anyone else, you can start with the FBG staff, who has yet to move McFadden in to dyansty RB1 status, even as recently as October.

Your statement re: EBF is FAR more dramatic and unreasonable than his re: McFadden, silly even.

In fact, lets make it easy, here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAM2TX1I8yI

Please, do us all a favor and tell us what makes McFadden special, and what top 15 RBs in the NFL couldn't make those plays. These are his highlights from week two (simple Google search). You can use any clip you want, and tell us what RB can't get 10 yards when they aren't touched for 9. Tell us all what EBF is missing that is so clearly obvious. Use your scout lingo; use your own "film" if you want to - just share!
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:lmao: He is a good back but I am not at all convinced he is an elite back. He has speed and burst to be very good when he is in open space on screens and when the line gives him a good hole. But to be frank, he is not as good as Bradshaw for example. Bradshaw will regularly break tackles and get extra yards but I don't see McFadden doing that. To be fair, McFadden has improved at picking his holes. Improvement in his vision and in the passing game for Oakland (so that teams do not stack the box as often) has helped him. In my mind, an elite back can still put up 80 yards and a TD even when the blocking isn't great. ADP, Rice, MJD, even Bradshaw can all do that. I haven't seen McFadden do that yet.

 
eaglesfan7 said:
J-Dawg said:
eaglesfan7 said:
J-Dawg said:
To continue the Arian Foster discussion, do you think he is a sell-high in dynasty leagues this off-season? He seems to be in a perfect storm and his value is at its absolute highest point and I don't know what to think of him 2 or 3 years down the road. To me I'm worried of him being another Rudi Johnson where he'll dominate for a few years and then fade away after that. I'm on the fence about whether taking advantage of his great year to make a killing is worth it or if he's the type of guy you'd be wanting to build around.
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His value is at his highest but what would you be able to get for him? In my opinion, I would hold since he is legit and should produce no matter where he goes. He has running, receiving and blocking skills in every aspect and we saw on Monday night he is a ALL-AROUND back. He caught a bunch of passes and gets the redzone work. I have him in my dynasty league but no way am I selling right now unless I get blown away.
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Monday night was definitely an eye-opener. I never viewed him as much of a pass catching threat, but man did he ever impress in that area late in the game which is where the sell-high or hold dilemma came into play. The guy who currently has the 1.01 pick also has Roddy White and I'm intrigued to see if I could get both of those from him and end up with Ingram and White.
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You're trying to get Roddy and the no. 1 pick for Foster? You would definitely have to throw something else in that deal like a mid to high tier receiver probably. I have Roddy and Foster on my dynasty team and value them about the same. I wouldn't give up either unless you overload the deal with big time upside.
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I wouldn't trade Roddy straight up for Foster. Roddy is playing like the best WR right now and he has been a top 10 WR for three years now. That kind of consistency is golden. He still have another three or four years of that type of production going forward. I see Foster as a much more risky player and I am still not convinced that Tate or some other back won't cut into his production. I am a firm believer that the zone blocking run scheme can turn average backs into great backs.
 
az_prof said:
I wouldn't trade Roddy straight up for Foster. Roddy is playing like the best WR right now and he has been a top 10 WR for three years now. That kind of consistency is golden. He still have another three or four years of that type of production going forward. I see Foster as a much more risky player and I am still not convinced that Tate or some other back won't cut into his production. I am a firm believer that the zone blocking run scheme can turn average backs into great backs.
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I don't get this statement, and I hear it (or something like it) all of the time. If the ZBS were so great, why doesn't every team use it?

In the end, it's just a different system. IN any system, a good line will make an average back look great, and a bad line will make a good back look bad. You can argue about the quality of his line or the number and size of his holes to run through if you'd like, but this "system" argument lacks any credibility IMO.

I invested pretty heavily in Tate this past off-season, but it looks like I screwed up badly, because Foster sure looks for real to me.

 
It seems Donald Brown's value just can not get any lower than it is now. Should we be looking to buy, or is he just on his way to the bust status many expected?

 
renesauz said:
az_prof said:
I wouldn't trade Roddy straight up for Foster. Roddy is playing like the best WR right now and he has been a top 10 WR for three years now. That kind of consistency is golden. He still have another three or four years of that type of production going forward. I see Foster as a much more risky player and I am still not convinced that Tate or some other back won't cut into his production. I am a firm believer that the zone blocking run scheme can turn average backs into great backs.
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I don't get this statement, and I hear it (or something like it) all of the time. If the ZBS were so great, why doesn't every team use it?

In the end, it's just a different system. IN any system, a good line will make an average back look great, and a bad line will make a good back look bad. You can argue about the quality of his line or the number and size of his holes to run through if you'd like, but this "system" argument lacks any credibility IMO.

I invested pretty heavily in Tate this past off-season, but it looks like I screwed up badly, because Foster sure looks for real to me.
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There is a very simple answer to your question: The play-action pass. The system argument is very valid. It has it's ups and down. Every team uses it, to some extent. But you can't run play-action off of the standard stretch play.

I am sure there is much more to it than that, but that is one reason why some shy away from it.

 
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valhallan said:
It seems Donald Brown's value just can not get any lower than it is now. Should we be looking to buy, or is he just on his way to the bust status many expected?
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I always liked Brown but it doesn't look good. He can't stay on the field and, when he does, he is underwhelming (that's likely generous). If you have a deep bench, can afford a stash and he's dirt cheap, sure. But that can be said of almost anyone.
 
SSOG said:
FWIW, I largely feel the same way about Arian Foster. I simply do not understand how anyone can watch him play and come away thinking he's a system back, or a product of his offense, or a fungible piece who is very likely to be shuffled off in coming seasons. I'm not saying he's Adrian Peterson, but he's a damn sight better than a lot of people are giving him credit for.
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Did you get to see Foster's six yard TD run Monday night? We all know that Chris Johnson's a more gifted runner in the open field. But when I watch Foster run, he's decisive, quick for his size, and he goes north/south with purpose. I think that people tend to propose comparisons that just don't make any sense. Any RB inevitably gets compared to Adrian Peterson. Well, that's ludicrous. Peterson's a transcendental, once-in-a-lifetime talent. So if you step back for a minute and survey the RB landscape in the NFL, Foster isn't some hulking idiot that just runs through enormous holes. He's smart, strong, and talented enough to be a productive RB for many years to come.

 
valhallan said:
It seems Donald Brown's value just can not get any lower than it is now. Should we be looking to buy, or is he just on his way to the bust status many expected?
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The few Donald Brown homers left claim that he still looks injured. I have him in one league and all I can do is hold, though part of me wants to dump him for whatever I can get.
 
jdoggydogg said:
SSOG said:
FWIW, I largely feel the same way about Arian Foster. I simply do not understand how anyone can watch him play and come away thinking he's a system back, or a product of his offense, or a fungible piece who is very likely to be shuffled off in coming seasons. I'm not saying he's Adrian Peterson, but he's a damn sight better than a lot of people are giving him credit for.
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Did you get to see Foster's six yard TD run Monday night? We all know that Chris Johnson's a more gifted runner in the open field. But when I watch Foster run, he's decisive, quick for his size, and he goes north/south with purpose. I think that people tend to propose comparisons that just don't make any sense. Any RB inevitably gets compared to Adrian Peterson. Well, that's ludicrous. Peterson's a transcendental, once-in-a-lifetime talent. So if you step back for a minute and survey the RB landscape in the NFL, Foster isn't some hulking idiot that just runs through enormous holes. He's smart, strong, and talented enough to be a productive RB for many years to come.
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I am coming to this conclusion too. At the end of the day, it is about numbers. Foster is putting them up, and it really doesn't matter too much why or how, because it doesn't look like that is going to change. I personally get too caught up the fact that Foster doesn't look special to me. First of all, who the hell am I? Second, his production is now a trend, and the pieces are in place for that to continue.

I still feel that Foster is only a good, top 25 RB talent wise, but you don't get points for talent, you get them for everything you do on your way to touchdowns. I don't think he will end up on any of my rosters, after having traded him, becuase others seem to value him more. But the value that he does have is legit. Again, I say top 10 -15 and would have no problem listing him as high as 7 or 8.

 
Is anyone still drinking the Jonathan "Jimmy" Stewart kool-aid? His Dynasty ranking is all over the map. I'm not sure what to think. I have no problem being patient, but will he be startable as early as next year or is he more of a two year project? I'd love to hear some opinions.

 
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the turnip said:
Is anyone still drinking the James Stewart kool-aid? His Dynasty ranking is all over the map. I'm not sure what to think. I have no problem being patient, but will he be startable as early as next year or is he more of a two year project? I'd love to hear some opinions.
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My guess is that he is startable next season. I find it hard to believe that Carolina can screw the situation up any more than it already has. As for my ranking of him, it is holding steady, in a vacuum. But depending on my situation, I could become impatient and value a guy like Ahmad Bradshaw more, because Bradshaw will help me win this year. I don't think his long term value has been hinder in anyway.
 
the turnip said:
Is anyone still drinking the James Stewart kool-aid? His Dynasty ranking is all over the map. I'm not sure what to think. I have no problem being patient, but will he be startable as early as next year or is he more of a two year project? I'd love to hear some opinions.
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I own DeAngelo, and I've followed both RBs closely for years. I know that both RBs' stock is at an all time low. But it will get better. How much better depends on the front office.If the front office is smart, they'll retain both RBs and add a quality QB. If the front office is less than smart, they'll let one of them go. Of course, we're discussing fantasy games here. So if you own Stewart or Williams, separating the two players could easily be fantasy gold. Both these RBs are talented enough to put up great numbers if they become their teams' bellcow starter.
 
jdoggydogg said:
the turnip said:
Is anyone still drinking the James Stewart kool-aid? His Dynasty ranking is all over the map. I'm not sure what to think. I have no problem being patient, but will he be startable as early as next year or is he more of a two year project? I'd love to hear some opinions.
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I own DeAngelo, and I've followed both RBs closely for years. I know that both RBs' stock is at an all time low. But it will get better. How much better depends on the front office.If the front office is smart, they'll retain both RBs and add a quality QB. If the front office is less than smart, they'll let one of them go. Of course, we're discussing fantasy games here. So if you own Stewart or Williams, separating the two players could easily be fantasy gold. Both these RBs are talented enough to put up great numbers if they become their teams' bellcow starter.
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You don't think they would be wise to get value for one of the two, that they can invest elsewhere on their roster? It doesn't make sense to have your 2nd best player touch the ball 5-8 times a game, in my opinion.
 
Concept Coop said:
I personally get too caught up the fact that Foster doesn't look special to me. First of all, who the hell am I? Second, his production is now a trend, and the pieces are in place for that to continue.
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This is where the semantic argument begins. Is Foster special the way that DeAngelo Williams is special? I'd say he has a different skill set. We know how hard it is to make the NFL. Thousands of players compete at the college level, but a tiny handful make it to the NFL as a starter. So essentially, every NFL player is somewhat talented.I've said it before, but I can't say it enough: the difference between bad players and great players in the NFL is work ethic. Jerry Rice was talented, but he was great because he worked hard. You could argue that certain underperforming WRs in the modern NFL are more innately talented than Rice. But does it matter? Foster is talented enough to do very well in this offense. I know people like to write off Foster becuase he's doing well in a system that has made stars out of average RBs. But this premise is fallacious. Terrell Davis wasn't a hack that got lucky. He was the perfect RB for Shanahan's zone blocking scheme. Zone blocking isn't worth a #### unless you have a RB that can work in that system.
 
Concept Coop said:
jdoggydogg said:
the turnip said:
Is anyone still drinking the James Stewart kool-aid? His Dynasty ranking is all over the map. I'm not sure what to think. I have no problem being patient, but will he be startable as early as next year or is he more of a two year project? I'd love to hear some opinions.
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I own DeAngelo, and I've followed both RBs closely for years. I know that both RBs' stock is at an all time low. But it will get better. How much better depends on the front office.If the front office is smart, they'll retain both RBs and add a quality QB. If the front office is less than smart, they'll let one of them go. Of course, we're discussing fantasy games here. So if you own Stewart or Williams, separating the two players could easily be fantasy gold. Both these RBs are talented enough to put up great numbers if they become their teams' bellcow starter.
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You don't think they would be wise to get value for one of the two, that they can invest elsewhere on their roster? It doesn't make sense to have your 2nd best player touch the ball 5-8 times a game, in my opinion.
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It seems like most NFL coaches want two (or even three) talented RBs on their starting squad. We as fantasy owners would love to see Williams and Stewart get the majority of touches every week. But unless you have a Peterson, Johnson, Gore, or MJD, it's smarter to rotate in a fresh guy to keep the defenses reeling.
 
jdoggydogg said:
Concept Coop said:
I personally get too caught up the fact that Foster doesn't look special to me. First of all, who the hell am I? Second, his production is now a trend, and the pieces are in place for that to continue.
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This is where the semantic argument begins. Is Foster special the way that DeAngelo Williams is special? I'd say he has a different skill set. We know how hard it is to make the NFL. Thousands of players compete at the college level, but a tiny handful make it to the NFL as a starter. So essentially, every NFL player is somewhat talented.I've said it before, but I can't say it enough: the difference between bad players and great players in the NFL is work ethic. Jerry Rice was talented, but he was great because he worked hard. You could argue that certain underperforming WRs in the modern NFL are more innately talented than Rice. But does it matter? Foster is talented enough to do very well in this offense. I know people like to write off Foster becuase he's doing well in a system that has made stars out of average RBs. But this premise is fallacious. Terrell Davis wasn't a hack that got lucky. He was the perfect RB for Shanahan's zone blocking scheme. Zone blocking isn't worth a #### unless you have a RB that can work in that system.
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If TD was the only guy to do well in the system, I don't think anyone would have an argument. But the Mike Andersons of the world scare me a bit.
 
jdoggydogg said:
Concept Coop said:
jdoggydogg said:
the turnip said:
Is anyone still drinking the James Stewart kool-aid? His Dynasty ranking is all over the map. I'm not sure what to think. I have no problem being patient, but will he be startable as early as next year or is he more of a two year project? I'd love to hear some opinions.
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I own DeAngelo, and I've followed both RBs closely for years. I know that both RBs' stock is at an all time low. But it will get better. How much better depends on the front office.If the front office is smart, they'll retain both RBs and add a quality QB. If the front office is less than smart, they'll let one of them go. Of course, we're discussing fantasy games here. So if you own Stewart or Williams, separating the two players could easily be fantasy gold. Both these RBs are talented enough to put up great numbers if they become their teams' bellcow starter.
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You don't think they would be wise to get value for one of the two, that they can invest elsewhere on their roster? It doesn't make sense to have your 2nd best player touch the ball 5-8 times a game, in my opinion.
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It seems like most NFL coaches want two (or even three) talented RBs on their starting squad. We as fantasy owners would love to see Williams and Stewart get the majority of touches every week. But unless you have a Peterson, Johnson, Gore, or MJD, it's smarter to rotate in a fresh guy to keep the defenses reeling.
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I agree, but Stewart is more than a #2, even in a 50/50 split. You will eventually have to pay both of them top RB money, and I don't know that it is worth it. Not only that, but I would be just fine with a Mike Tolbert, Javon Ringer, Tashard Choice type getting 5-8 carries a game. Use the money/picks that you can aquire and get something else. Just my thoughts on the situation. I know right now that if this was going on in NE, DeAngelo would have been traded and if they couldn't trade him, they would let him walk. I think NE is a good model to follow.

 
Dr. Octopus said:
So Eli Manning is a better dynasty QB than McNabb now. Glad to see that change that was rather obvious a few weeks back. ;) Also great job on the website - it's extremely well done both asthetically and "intellectually". No one is ever going to agree about everything - but it creates a great jumping off point for discussion and a great reference to start out with.ETA: Things that jump out at me in the QB rankings are Orton and Vick being way too high and Sanchez and Stafford being way too low. Sanchez was putting together quite a nice season for a second year player and while his final stats look bad this week he actually played decently. He had a few bad drops and both interceptions came from the defensive back ripping the ball away from the WR after they "caught" it. I like Orton, but think he's slowing down quite a bit and McDaniels could be on the outs soon and his system is certainly a help to Orton's production. There's no need to rehash the Vick discussion from pages back.
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Re Eli Manning: I think you've missed the point entirely on Eli Manning. Eli Manning is still ranked exactly where he's always been. He's gone from 17th to 15th to 17th to 19th to 20th to 17th to 16th. It's not that my opinion of Eli Manning has improved- it's pretty much exactly the same as it's been since 2007. Your phrasing of that sentence implies that Eli Manning somehow passed Donovan McNabb on the way up, when the reality is that Donovan McNabb passed Eli Manning on the way down.Mike Shanahan runs a complicated offense. It typically takes players a couple of years to get it, which is why when I see Donovan McNabb struggle, I chalk it up to growing pains. I think he's performed very acceptably so far this season, given his system and his offensive supporting cast. Obviously getting benched for Rex Grossman is a very bad thing, but even that's not exactly a nail in the coffin or anything. It's just that my previous ranking was based on the opinion that he'd sign a long-term deal in Washington and get a good 4 years or more with Shanahan. As of now, that possibility is looking less and less likely.Sanchez's "second year improvement" is a total mirage created by the fact that his INTs were down... and given the sample sizes involved, the decrease in INTs was more likely a statistical fluke than meaningful trend. His comp% is down, his YPA is down, and his YPC are down. Moreover, he's still looking a bit lost out there. He might be a bit low, but I'm quickly cooling on Sanchez. As for Stafford... he actually rose two spots in the last update. He's right where I want him, given I wasn't high on him coming into the league and he still hasn't shown much of anything.Vick played so well that Andy Reid let him keep his job even though Kolb, the "QB of the future", was playing well. That's a huge positive indicator for me. And with Orton, look beyond the fact that he plays in a friendly system for a moment. You've got a 27 year old QB whose INT% since his rookie season has gone 3.5, 2.5, 2.6, 2.2, 1.6. His YPA since his rookie season has gone 5.1, 6.0, 6.4, 7.0, 7.9. His ypg has gone 125, 159, 198, 238, 314. His QB rating has gone 60, 74, 80, 87, 93. He's currently the #2 fantasy QB despite playing with far and away the worst running game in the league, a banged up offensive line, and a receiving corps that before the season was considered likely the worst in the entire league. He's 5th in ANYA despite playing in pretty much the worst situation imaginable for putting up good efficiency metrics. And this isn't the first time he's been playing well, either- he was QB7 through the first 7 weeks of 2008 before he got hurt, missed time, and clearly wasn't the same guy after his return. And that was in a completely different offensive system and once again it was paired with the worst receiving corps in the entire NFL. And, to repeat the most relevant point one last time... Kyle Orton is 27 years old. Why is it so hard to believe that Kyle Orton is still improving at 27 years old? I've made as many Orton jokes as anyone, but at this point, I'm totally convinced. Kyle Orton is a good QB. He's this year's Matt Schaub, except while everyone was freaking out over Matt Schaub last year, this year Kyle Orton gets greeted with a collective yawn... despite putting up better stats without the assistance of Andre Johnson.
valhallan said:
It seems Donald Brown's value just can not get any lower than it is now. Should we be looking to buy, or is he just on his way to the bust status many expected?
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I'd be buying on Donald Brown. I wouldn't give up a fortune to get him, but I think his actual value outstrips his perceived value at the moment.
Concept Coop said:
There is a very simple answer to your question: The play-action pass. The system argument is very valid. It has it's ups and down. Every team uses it, to some extent. But you can't run play-action off of the standard stretch play.I am sure there is much more to it than that, but that is one reason why some shy away from it.
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What? You can't run the play action pass out of the ZBS? Huh? Did you ever see the Jake Plummer Broncos play? Their entire offense was based off of ZBS runs, play action passes, and bootlegs. That was pretty much all they ran. Jake Plummer for a couple of years had the highest passer rating in the NFL on play action passes. The second best play-action passer rating belonged to Peyton Manning and the Indianapolis Colts... who run more stretch plays than anyone else in the league.
the turnip said:
Is anyone still drinking the James Stewart kool-aid? His Dynasty ranking is all over the map. I'm not sure what to think. I have no problem being patient, but will he be startable as early as next year or is he more of a two year project? I'd love to hear some opinions.
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James Stewart wasn't even that good the first time he played- he only once ranked as high as 12th in fantasy points- and that was back when he was in his 20s. At this point, he's 39 years old, and even if he unretired after 8 years out of the league, I seriously doubt he could achieve any fantasy relevance. :hophead:
 
Concept Coop said:
I still feel that Foster is only a good, top 25 RB talent wise
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I think this is insane. First off, "top 25" isn't good. Matt Forte is a top 25 RB, and he's terrible. "Top 25" is the same thing as "bottom 10". Second off, I challenge you to name 25 RBs more talented than Arian Foster.
Concept Coop said:
If TD was the only guy to do well in the system, I don't think anyone would have an argument. But the Mike Andersons of the world scare me a bit.
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Why? Mike Anderson was a phenomenally underrated RB. Only two players ever put his ### on the bench- Terrell Davis and Clinton Portis. There's no shame in that. If the Broncos had never drafted Portis, I think Anderson would be remembered right now as a better Rudi Johnson, or maybe a slightly poor man's Corey Dillon, talent-wise. Guys like Gary, Droughns, Bell, Young, Bell, etc really were scrubs... but their performance showed it. Their ypc, success rate, DVOA, and every other efficiency metric on the planet were way down from the likes of Davis, Portis, and yes, Mike Anderson. Foster's production has absolutely nothing in common with the likes of Reuben Droughns, Mike Bell, or Olandis Gary.
 
SSOG said:
[

Concept Coop said:
There is a very simple answer to your question: The play-action pass. The system argument is very valid. It has it's ups and down. Every team uses it, to some extent. But you can't run play-action off of the standard stretch play.I am sure there is much more to it than that, but that is one reason why some shy away from it.
Click to expand...
What? You can't run the play action pass out of the ZBS? Huh? Did you ever see the Jake Plummer Broncos play? Their entire offense was based off of ZBS runs, play action passes, and bootlegs. That was pretty much all they ran. Jake Plummer for a couple of years had the highest passer rating in the NFL on play action passes. The second best play-action passer rating belonged to Peyton Manning and the Indianapolis Colts... who run more stretch plays than anyone else in the league.
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How can you run play-action when your offensive line is moving forward? That is what the stretch play is. Your line crashes down, usually to the right or left, allowing a lineman - sometimes two - to get to the second level. You can run play action, but very early in the process, not allowing it to have as much impact. As I said, every team in the NFL uses it, and of course, every team can run the play-action. Play action IS however, a part of it. On a stretch play, there is often a LB or DE free on the inside, or, at the very least, going against a TE. A simple play action requires a bootleg, or for the OLB, DE to first bite on the run (even more so). If not, it limits the routes you can run. As for other reasons:Zone blocking gives the play away earlier.There is more opportunity for negative plays.Play action takes longer, and often requires a rollout, and a QB that can throw on the run.You need RBs and OL that fit the scheme.
 
SSOG said:
Concept Coop said:
I still feel that Foster is only a good, top 25 RB talent wise
Click to expand...
I think this is insane. First off, "top 25" isn't good. Matt Forte is a top 25 RB, and he's terrible. "Top 25" is the same thing as "bottom 10". Second off, I challenge you to name 25 RBs more talented than Arian Foster.
Concept Coop said:
If TD was the only guy to do well in the system, I don't think anyone would have an argument. But the Mike Andersons of the world scare me a bit.
Click to expand...
Why? Mike Anderson was a phenomenally underrated RB. Only two players ever put his ### on the bench- Terrell Davis and Clinton Portis. There's no shame in that. If the Broncos had never drafted Portis, I think Anderson would be remembered right now as a better Rudi Johnson, or maybe a slightly poor man's Corey Dillon, talent-wise. Guys like Gary, Droughns, Bell, Young, Bell, etc really were scrubs... but their performance showed it. Their ypc, success rate, DVOA, and every other efficiency metric on the planet were way down from the likes of Davis, Portis, and yes, Mike Anderson. Foster's production has absolutely nothing in common with the likes of Reuben Droughns, Mike Bell, or Olandis Gary.
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1st. I will see what I can do. I accept your "challenge" :rolleyes: If it is closer to 15 than 25, my point still remains and is valid. No need to freak out.2nd. Let me get this straight: Forte sucks, Anderson good? Huh. Enjoy that thought. Too bad Mike Anderson never figured that out.3rd. I didn't say any of those names. But if we want to add names to the list, start with Torian and Slaton, who should be fresh on everyone's mind.
 
ADP

CJ

Ray Rice

MJD

Steven Jackson

Frank Gore

DeAngelo Williams

Jonathan Stewart

LeSean McCoy

Jahvid Best

Michael Turner

Ahmad Bradshaw

Jamaal Charles

Felix Jones

Beanie Wells

C.J. Spiller

Rashard Mendenhall

Ryan Mathews

Darren McFadden

Right next to guys like Marshawn Lynch, Cedric Benson, Knowshon Moreno and a healthy Ronnie Brown.

So yes, top 25.

 
Concept Coop said:
jdoggydogg said:
Concept Coop said:
I personally get too caught up the fact that Foster doesn't look special to me. First of all, who the hell am I? Second, his production is now a trend, and the pieces are in place for that to continue.
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This is where the semantic argument begins. Is Foster special the way that DeAngelo Williams is special? I'd say he has a different skill set. We know how hard it is to make the NFL. Thousands of players compete at the college level, but a tiny handful make it to the NFL as a starter. So essentially, every NFL player is somewhat talented.I've said it before, but I can't say it enough: the difference between bad players and great players in the NFL is work ethic. Jerry Rice was talented, but he was great because he worked hard. You could argue that certain underperforming WRs in the modern NFL are more innately talented than Rice. But does it matter? Foster is talented enough to do very well in this offense. I know people like to write off Foster becuase he's doing well in a system that has made stars out of average RBs. But this premise is fallacious. Terrell Davis wasn't a hack that got lucky. He was the perfect RB for Shanahan's zone blocking scheme. Zone blocking isn't worth a #### unless you have a RB that can work in that system.
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If TD was the only guy to do well in the system, I don't think anyone would have an argument. But the Mike Andersons of the world scare me a bit.
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But there again, Mike Anderson was an NFL running back. He wasn't a hack third stringer from Harvard.
 
Concept Coop said:
ADPCJRay RiceMJDSteven JacksonFrank GoreDeAngelo WilliamsJonathan StewartLeSean McCoyJahvid BestMichael TurnerAhmad BradshawJamaal CharlesFelix JonesBeanie WellsC.J. SpillerRashard MendenhallRyan MathewsDarren McFaddenRight next to guys like Marshawn Lynch, Cedric Benson, Knowshon Moreno and a healthy Ronnie Brown. So yes, top 25.
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What is this list? It can't be current running back dynasty rankings?
 
eaglesfan7 said:
Concept Coop said:
ADPCJRay RiceMJDSteven JacksonFrank GoreDeAngelo WilliamsJonathan StewartLeSean McCoyJahvid BestMichael TurnerAhmad BradshawJamaal CharlesFelix JonesBeanie WellsC.J. SpillerRashard MendenhallRyan MathewsDarren McFaddenRight next to guys like Marshawn Lynch, Cedric Benson, Knowshon Moreno and a healthy Ronnie Brown. So yes, top 25.
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What is this list? It can't be current running back dynasty rankings?
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No. Not at all. It is guys I think are more talented than Arian Foster. I would take Foster over a lot of them, but talent wise, I think he is in the 20-23 range.
 
jdoggydogg said:
Concept Coop said:
jdoggydogg said:
Concept Coop said:
I personally get too caught up the fact that Foster doesn't look special to me. First of all, who the hell am I? Second, his production is now a trend, and the pieces are in place for that to continue.
Click to expand...
This is where the semantic argument begins. Is Foster special the way that DeAngelo Williams is special? I'd say he has a different skill set. We know how hard it is to make the NFL. Thousands of players compete at the college level, but a tiny handful make it to the NFL as a starter. So essentially, every NFL player is somewhat talented.I've said it before, but I can't say it enough: the difference between bad players and great players in the NFL is work ethic. Jerry Rice was talented, but he was great because he worked hard. You could argue that certain underperforming WRs in the modern NFL are more innately talented than Rice. But does it matter? Foster is talented enough to do very well in this offense. I know people like to write off Foster becuase he's doing well in a system that has made stars out of average RBs. But this premise is fallacious. Terrell Davis wasn't a hack that got lucky. He was the perfect RB for Shanahan's zone blocking scheme. Zone blocking isn't worth a #### unless you have a RB that can work in that system.
Click to expand...
If TD was the only guy to do well in the system, I don't think anyone would have an argument. But the Mike Andersons of the world scare me a bit.
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But there again, Mike Anderson was an NFL running back. He wasn't a hack third stringer from Harvard.
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No doubt. If we are comparing Foster to 3rd string college backs, of course he has elite talent. If we are comparing him to the 50 relevant RBs in the NFL, I would say he is "good".But again, it doesn't matter how good a player is, only how many points they score. Foster scores a lot and could for a good 3-4 years.
 
Concept Coop said:
eaglesfan7 said:
Concept Coop said:
ADPCJRay RiceMJDSteven JacksonFrank GoreDeAngelo WilliamsJonathan StewartLeSean McCoyJahvid BestMichael TurnerAhmad BradshawJamaal CharlesFelix JonesBeanie WellsC.J. SpillerRashard MendenhallRyan MathewsDarren McFaddenRight next to guys like Marshawn Lynch, Cedric Benson, Knowshon Moreno and a healthy Ronnie Brown. So yes, top 25.
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What is this list? It can't be current running back dynasty rankings?
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No. Not at all. It is guys I think are more talented than Arian Foster. I would take Foster over a lot of them, but talent wise, I think he is in the 20-23 range.
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Talent? Players can put in situations where they can't succeed all the time. Look at Beanie in Arizona. His talent is worth nothing if they are behind by 2 touchdowns all the time. Or if a player is always injured. What does talent have to do with a players performance if he's on the trainers table all the time? Staying healthy is also a big part of a players value. Ask McFadden.
 
eaglesfan7 said:
Talent? Players can put in situations where they can't succeed all the time. Look at Beanie in Arizona. His talent is worth nothing if they are behind by 2 touchdowns all the time. Or if a player is always injured. What does talent have to do with a players performance if he's on the trainers table all the time? Staying healthy is also a big part of a players value. Ask McFadden.
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When did I suggest otherwise? I have been saying again and again that Foster will score points, and should be valued accordingly. You are 100% right, and I would take Foster over Beanie, even though I think Beanie is more talented.
 
Concept Coop said:
eaglesfan7 said:
Talent? Players can put in situations where they can't succeed all the time. Look at Beanie in Arizona. His talent is worth nothing if they are behind by 2 touchdowns all the time. Or if a player is always injured. What does talent have to do with a players performance if he's on the trainers table all the time? Staying healthy is also a big part of a players value. Ask McFadden.
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When did I suggest otherwise? I have been saying again and again that Foster will score points, and should be valued accordingly. You are 100% right, and I would take Foster over Beanie, even though I think Beanie is more talented.
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I'm not saying you're suggesting otherwise. I'm saying people don't always view talent the correct way. There is no point in debating talent if it doesn't factor into who you would rather have on the field scoring points.
 
Concept Coop said:
ADP

CJ

Ray Rice

MJD

Steven Jackson

Frank Gore

DeAngelo Williams

Jonathan Stewart

LeSean McCoy

Jahvid Best

Michael Turner

Ahmad Bradshaw

Jamaal Charles

Felix Jones

Beanie Wells

C.J. Spiller

Rashard Mendenhall

Ryan Mathews

Darren McFadden

Right next to guys like Marshawn Lynch, Cedric Benson, Knowshon Moreno and a healthy Ronnie Brown.

So yes, top 25.
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While this is a completely and totally subjective argument, as everyone is going to have a different view on talent, the bolded players are highly questionable in my opinion. I'm not sure how someone can watch Arian Foster compared to Jahvid Best, Michael Turner, Felix Jones, Beanie Wells, C.J. Spiller, or Ryan Mathews this year and not come away thinking Foster looks like the much better player. To catagorically say these guys are more talented to me sounds slightly like someone framing an argument to suit their position. I also included McFadden and McCoy as bolded players because, while they have looked good this year (although not necessarily any better than Foster), they each have looked extremely mediocre and/or average for at least a full season in years past (longer in McFadden's case). If we are going to assume Foster is less talented then all the players you have mentioned and looks better because of the situation, then don't we have to assume that McFadden and McCoy are also products of a system change/more talent around them using the exact same logic?I think the definitive list of players that are clearly more talented than Foster is a very short one, and goes something like this:

Adrian Peterson

Chris Johnson

Ray Rice

Maurice Jones Drew

Steven Jackson

Frank Gore

DeAngelo Williams

That's 7 players. Outside of that, it's VERY subjective and you could just as easily make an argument for Foster being next on this list as you could for any other player (even players like Jonathan Stewart, who are showing some small warts this season).

Note that I don't necessarily think he belongs next on this list. I think players like Stewart and Jahvid Best are more talented, while players like Turner, Spiller, Mathews, and Felix Jones are not. Then there are a couple players, like McFadden, Bradshaw, and McCoy that I am not sure about. My point is not where I specifically rank him, but rather the fact that I think you are taking some creative leaps with talent evaluations to suit your argument.

 
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Herm23 said:
While this is a completely and totally subjective argument, as everyone is going to have a different view on talent, the bolded players are highly questionable in my opinion. I'm not sure how someone can watch Arian Foster compared to Jahvid Best, Michael Turner, Felix Jones, Beanie Wells, C.J. Spiller, or Ryan Mathews this year and not come away thinking Foster looks like the much better player. To catagorically say these guys are more talented to me sounds slightly like someone framing an argument to suit their position. I also included McFadden and McCoy as bolded players because, while they have looked good this year (although not necessarily any better than Foster), they each have looked extremely mediocre and/or average for at least a full season in years past (longer in McFadden's case). If we are going to assume Foster is less talented then all the players you have mentioned and looks better because of the situation, then don't we have to assume that McFadden and McCoy are also products of a system change/more talent around them using the exact same logic?

I think the definitive list of players that are clearly more talented than Foster is a very short one, and goes something like this:

Adrian Peterson

Chris Johnson

Ray Rice

Maurice Jones Drew

Steven Jackson

Frank Gore

DeAngelo Williams

That's 6 players. Outside of that, it's VERY subjective and you could just as easily make an argument for Foster being next on this list as you could for any other player (even players like Jonathan Stewart, who are showing some small warts this season).

Note that I don't necessarily think he belongs next on this list. I think players like Stewart and Jahvid Best are more talented, while players like Turner, Spiller, Mathews, Felix Jones, etc... are not. My point is not where I specifically rank him, but rather the fact that I think you are taking some creative leaps with talent evaluations to suit your argument.
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We are not scouts. It is subjective, as is the very term talent, so I don't know the point in arguing it.I simply think that in a vacuum, Felix is a more talented player. You can replace Felix with anyone from the list, I have just seen more of Felix than the others. If you put Foster on the Cowboys, I think Felix produces more. If you put Felix on the Texans, I think Felix produces more. But bececuase they are where they are, I would take Foster ahead of Felix.

" To catagorically say these guys are more talented to me sounds slightly like someone framing an argument to suit their position. "

What?! That sentance makes no sense. Of course I made the list to suit my argument, or - rather- as a product of the belief I am arguing. If you think I am putting names on there that I don't believe are more talented than Foster, you are wrong.

 
Concept Coop said:
Herm23 said:
While this is a completely and totally subjective argument, as everyone is going to have a different view on talent, the bolded players are highly questionable in my opinion. I'm not sure how someone can watch Arian Foster compared to Jahvid Best, Michael Turner, Felix Jones, Beanie Wells, C.J. Spiller, or Ryan Mathews this year and not come away thinking Foster looks like the much better player. To catagorically say these guys are more talented to me sounds slightly like someone framing an argument to suit their position. I also included McFadden and McCoy as bolded players because, while they have looked good this year (although not necessarily any better than Foster), they each have looked extremely mediocre and/or average for at least a full season in years past (longer in McFadden's case). If we are going to assume Foster is less talented then all the players you have mentioned and looks better because of the situation, then don't we have to assume that McFadden and McCoy are also products of a system change/more talent around them using the exact same logic?

I think the definitive list of players that are clearly more talented than Foster is a very short one, and goes something like this:

Adrian Peterson

Chris Johnson

Ray Rice

Maurice Jones Drew

Steven Jackson

Frank Gore

DeAngelo Williams

That's 6 players. Outside of that, it's VERY subjective and you could just as easily make an argument for Foster being next on this list as you could for any other player (even players like Jonathan Stewart, who are showing some small warts this season).

Note that I don't necessarily think he belongs next on this list. I think players like Stewart and Jahvid Best are more talented, while players like Turner, Spiller, Mathews, Felix Jones, etc... are not. My point is not where I specifically rank him, but rather the fact that I think you are taking some creative leaps with talent evaluations to suit your argument.
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We are not scouts. It is subjective, as is the very term talent, so I don't know the point in arguing it.I simply think that in a vacuum, Felix is a more talented player. You can replace Felix with anyone from the list, I have just seen more of Felix than the others. If you put Foster on the Cowboys, I think Felix produces more. If you put Felix on the Texans, I think Felix produces more. But bececuase they are where they are, I would take Foster ahead of Felix.

" To catagorically say these guys are more talented to me sounds slightly like someone framing an argument to suit their position. "

What?! That sentance makes no sense. Of course I made the list to suit my argument, or - rather- as a product of the belief I am arguing. If you think I am putting names on there that I don't believe are more talented than Foster, you are wrong.

I'm sorry but imo I can't take anyone seriously who thinks Felix Jones is more talented than Arian Foster. Many, many players have looked extremely talented against college teams and that's where they go wrong. Showing skill and talent in college is not a true judge of talent. It's just taking advantage of less talented players. Felix Jones is close to being VERY BAD. Just watch him play.
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eaglesfan7 said:
I'm sorry but imo I can't take anyone seriously who thinks Felix Jones is more talented than Arian Foster. Many, many players have looked extremely talented against college teams and that's where they go wrong. Showing skill and talent in college is not a true judge of talent. It's just taking advantage of less talented players. Felix Jones is close to being VERY BAD. Just watch him play.
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No need to be sorry. I think you are very wrong, and am not sorry :popcorn: .What does Foster do better than Felix?What does Felix lack, or in otherwords: what makes Felix close to being very bad?His YPC went from 6, to whatever it is now because Dallas' line has been garbage. They lost Flozell, Gurode and BIGG are regressing, Columbo and Kozar have been hurt, and so on. So if you think Felix is bad, you should be able to say why, without using this years numbers, no? Not only has the line been awful, the playcalling has been equally bad. The large majority of carries come in the form of draw plays or wide sweeps. They give everything else to Marion.Lastly, I have watched every snap of his career, many of them, more than once. He has looked damn good in the NFL, not just college. Including when he ran over your Eagles, two weeks in a row. Edit: Correction. I have not gone back to watch the rest of the Giants game, this season.
 
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Concept Coop said:
eaglesfan7 said:
I'm sorry but imo I can't take anyone seriously who thinks Felix Jones is more talented than Arian Foster. Many, many players have looked extremely talented against college teams and that's where they go wrong. Showing skill and talent in college is not a true judge of talent. It's just taking advantage of less talented players. Felix Jones is close to being VERY BAD. Just watch him play.
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No need to be sorry. I think you are very wrong, and am not sorry :goodposting: .What does Foster do better than Felix?What does Felix lack, or in otherwords: what makes Felix close to being very bad?His YPC went from 6, to whatever it is now because Dallas' line has been garbage. They lost Flozell, Gurode and BIGG are regressing, Columbo and Kozar have been hurt, and so on. So if you think Felix is bad, you should be able to say why, without using this years numbers, no?Lastly, I have watched every snap of his career, many of them, more than once. He has looked damn good in the NFL, not just college. Edit: Correction. I have not gone back to watch the rest of the Giants game, this season.
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I won't use this years numbers. Just watch him play. I judge everyone by the tape against NFL players, not college. Felix has been a part time player at best in the NFL. He does not follow blockers well. He does not have the patience to let a hole open during a play. For someone who supposedly has breakaway speed, I have not seen breakaway speed at all. He seems to be average at catching the ball and below average at blocking even though we were told he would be an every down back . These characteristics do not translate well to the NFL. To me, Felix Jones is the next Julius Jones. All hype and no results.
 
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And one more important thing about Felix Jones. He can NOT stay healthy. This is one of the most important aspects of being an NFL caliber back.

 
Any thoughts on Ray Rice?

I haven't really seen him play too much, but is he really a stud talent?

The numbers are down this year, and not just the receptions (which were unsustainable). Anyone have any insight?

 
eaglesfan7 said:
Concept Coop said:
eaglesfan7 said:
I'm sorry but imo I can't take anyone seriously who thinks Felix Jones is more talented than Arian Foster. Many, many players have looked extremely talented against college teams and that's where they go wrong. Showing skill and talent in college is not a true judge of talent. It's just taking advantage of less talented players. Felix Jones is close to being VERY BAD. Just watch him play.
Click to expand...
No need to be sorry. I think you are very wrong, and am not sorry :goodposting: .What does Foster do better than Felix?What does Felix lack, or in otherwords: what makes Felix close to being very bad?His YPC went from 6, to whatever it is now because Dallas' line has been garbage. They lost Flozell, Gurode and BIGG are regressing, Columbo and Kozar have been hurt, and so on. So if you think Felix is bad, you should be able to say why, without using this years numbers, no?Lastly, I have watched every snap of his career, many of them, more than once. He has looked damn good in the NFL, not just college. Edit: Correction. I have not gone back to watch the rest of the Giants game, this season.
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I won't use this years numbers. Just watch him play. I judge everyone by the tape against NFL players, not college. Felix has been a part time player at best in the NFL. He does not follow blockers well. He does not have the patience to let a hole open during a play. For someone who supposedly has breakaway speed, I have not seen breakaway speed at all. He seems to be average at catching the ball and below average at blocking even though we were told he would be an every down back . These characteristics do not translate well to the NFL. To me, Felix Jones is the next Julius Jones. All hype and no results.
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Doesn't follow blockers well? No break away speed? Did you watch him break of a 46 yarder for a TD in week 17 last year, or a 73 yarder THE VERY NEXT WEEK against your Eagles?No patience? Below average at catching passes? Why, because of one fluke play on SC?I am not sorry. I can't take you seriously. I don't think you have watched him play this year, or maybe at all, which is fine. The speed is there, he is both patient and decisive, he has good hands and hasn't been given a chance to be an every down back, that doesn't mean he can't be. If you want to say he hasn't shown he can be a 3 down back, that is just fine. But at least be fair and acknowledge that he has not had a chance to be one. And if Felix is so bad, why was he averaging over 6.5 YPC his first two years, and now it is down to 4.2? If you watched the Cowboys play, which I do every week, it is CLEARLY not Felix that is the problem.
 
Concept Coop said:
jdoggydogg said:
Concept Coop said:
jdoggydogg said:
the turnip said:
Is anyone still drinking the James Stewart kool-aid? His Dynasty ranking is all over the map. I'm not sure what to think. I have no problem being patient, but will he be startable as early as next year or is he more of a two year project? I'd love to hear some opinions.
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I own DeAngelo, and I've followed both RBs closely for years. I know that both RBs' stock is at an all time low. But it will get better. How much better depends on the front office.If the front office is smart, they'll retain both RBs and add a quality QB. If the front office is less than smart, they'll let one of them go. Of course, we're discussing fantasy games here. So if you own Stewart or Williams, separating the two players could easily be fantasy gold. Both these RBs are talented enough to put up great numbers if they become their teams' bellcow starter.
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You don't think they would be wise to get value for one of the two, that they can invest elsewhere on their roster? It doesn't make sense to have your 2nd best player touch the ball 5-8 times a game, in my opinion.
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It seems like most NFL coaches want two (or even three) talented RBs on their starting squad. We as fantasy owners would love to see Williams and Stewart get the majority of touches every week. But unless you have a Peterson, Johnson, Gore, or MJD, it's smarter to rotate in a fresh guy to keep the defenses reeling.
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I agree, but Stewart is more than a #2, even in a 50/50 split. You will eventually have to pay both of them top RB money, and I don't know that it is worth it. Not only that, but I would be just fine with a Mike Tolbert, Javon Ringer, Tashard Choice type getting 5-8 carries a game. Use the money/picks that you can aquire and get something else. Just my thoughts on the situation. I know right now that if this was going on in NE, DeAngelo would have been traded and if they couldn't trade him, they would let him walk. I think NE is a good model to follow.
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Who is this James Stewart character? Are you talking about the actor? :thumbup:
 
Just because Brett Favre starts every game doesn't mean he's healthy. Stop throwing out facts (played 20 games in a row) that really don't have much meaning. He gets nicked up every game almost and has to come out for this play or that play. That's why he rarely gets 20 carries in a game and everyone knows he can't handle a full workload. Ask the Cowboys or Jerry Jones. If you didn't know he can't handle a full workload then you are watching the game but not paying attention.

Breakaway speed? 2 years ago (can't remember what team but I'll find it) he was chased down (had full speed and 5 yard edge on everyone) from behind by a db (who is most likely fast) and gets tackled at the 1 or 2 yard line and then leaves the game with an injury. Of course he's on the sideline for the touchdown run one play later.

I know because I draft him every year like an idiot.

 
eaglesfan7 said:
Just because Brett Favre starts every game doesn't mean he's healthy. Stop throwing out facts (played 20 games in a row) that really don't have much meaning. He gets nicked up every game almost and has to come out for this play or that play. That's why he rarely gets 20 carries in a game and everyone knows he can't handle a full workload. Ask the Cowboys or Jerry Jones. If you didn't know he can't handle a full workload then you are watching the game but not paying attention. Breakaway speed? 2 years ago (can't remember what team but I'll find it) he was chased down (had full speed and 5 yard edge on everyone) from behind by a db (who is most likely fast) and gets tackled at the 1 or 2 yard line and then leaves the game with an injury. Of course he's on the sideline for the touchdown run one play later. I know because I draft him every year like an idiot.
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Brett Favre? Breakway speed? 20 carries?I assume you're talking about Felix Jones?
 
Who would you rather have as a keeper in a 12 team keep 3 league? You have to keep 3.

Matt Forte or Mike Wallace?

I think both are questionable at best when only 36 players are begin kept. But I'm leaning toward Forte over Wallace. RBs are a commodity and I can't see Wallace being a top 10 wr in next year's rankings. But I can see Forte being about the 20th RB ranked. Thoughts?

 
Looking for a deep end of the bench kind of guy I was wondering if anyone had any info on Marcel Reece. He hasn't had many touches the last 2 weeks but he's made plays when he has touched the ball. I read he is 6'3" 240 lbs with sub 4.5 speed and was a TE in college but other than that I don't know much about him. I know he's playing fullback now but is there any way if Bush leaves he could be an option for the #2 RB in Oakland next year? Will he get more involved in the offense this year? Even if he stays at fullback would he become a big enough part of the offense to be a flex play?

Curious is anyone has seen him play.

 
eaglesfan7 said:
Just because Brett Favre starts every game doesn't mean he's healthy. Stop throwing out facts (played 20 games in a row) that really don't have much meaning. He gets nicked up every game almost and has to come out for this play or that play. That's why he rarely gets 20 carries in a game and everyone knows he can't handle a full workload. Ask the Cowboys or Jerry Jones. If you didn't know he can't handle a full workload then you are watching the game but not paying attention.
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Not rarely. Never. He's never gotten more than 16 carries. He's only topped 10 carries 6 times in the 41 games Dallas has played since he entered the league (only 29 of which he has been healthy enough to participate in).
 
Just read Craig "bust" Davis won't be back with San Diego next season. Another guy who is supposedly ultra talented and super fast who amounted to nothing. You guys still believe in talent above all else?

 
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