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Hey, SSOG. If the Vikings didn't give AP more than 16 carries a game, what would that say about him? Or would it say more about the staff? And before you blast me for comparing them, I'm not. I am simply saying that a player can't control how many carries they get, and that I don't believe the Cowboys have handled Felix properly.

And Jahvid Best, who you give a healthy ranking has never had 100 yards rushing, yet has had more than 16 carries in a game. What is more important, the number of carries, or what you do with said carries?

Wow, I don't mean to sound like a jerk or a tool because normally you bring the goods, but this is one of the worst arguments I've ever seen. If the Vikings never gave AP more than 16 carries, he wouldn't be ranked as high. If Chris Johnson got injured every 10th carry, he wouldn't be ranked as high. If Maurice Jones-Drew was splitting carries 50/50 with Deji Karim, he wouldn't be ranked as high. If my auntie had balls, she'd be my uncle. If Peyton Manning had had his arm amputated as a rookie, he wouldn't be a hall of famer. If my wife was 10 years old, I'd be in prison. Adrian Peterson *DOESN'T* get limited to 10 or fewer carries in 80% of his games, because he's ADRIAN FREAKING PETERSON. Chris Johnson does not get hurt every 10 carries because he's CHRIS FREAKING JOHNSON. Maurice Jones-Drew does not split carries 50/50 with Deji Karim because he's MAURICE FREAKING JONES-DREW. My wife is not 10 years old because that's seriously icky. And my aunt does have balls, but they're fake, and we call her "Uncle Sally", so the point stands.

The Jahvid Best argument is also stupid. Let's set aside for a moment that when you say "never", you really mean "not in any of the whopping 7 games he's played so far (most of which he's been playing injured during)". Let's set aside for a moment that your "100 rushing yards" argument seems a little bit silly given that Best already has a game with 230 yards from scrimmage under his belt. Hell, let's even set aside the fact that Felix Jones only has a single 100 yard rushing game in his entire freaking career (which is a hell of a lot longer than 7 games at this point). Two if you count the playoffs. You ask a question- which is more important, the carries, or what you do with them. The answer is without hesitation "the carries". Matt Forte has never topped 4.0 ypc for a season, yet he's ranked 4th, 18th, and 9th in his 3 years in the league. Eddie George had a mind-numbing 3.6 career ypc... but he was a top-12 RB a whopping 6 times. Jerome Bettis only topped 4.0 ypc four times in 13 years, yet he finished as a starter-caliber fantasy back 9 times. Meanwhile, Jerious Norwood topped 6.0 ypc in each of his first two seasons, Mewelde Moore averaged 4.9 ypc in his first four years in Minnesota, Leon Washington averages 4.8 career ypc, Tatum Bell averages 4.9 career ypc, and Justin Forsett averages 5.0 career ypc. I don't care WHAT Felix does with his carries if he's only going to be another Mewelde Moore, Jerious Norwood, Leon Washington, Tatum Bell, or Justin Forsett.

He has had more of a load over the last 20 games than he ever has, and as another poster pointed out, he hasn't missed a game in that time. That would suggest that he is handling the increased load just fine.

That's the card you're going to play right now? Really? Felix Jones has averaged 9.7 carries per game over his last 20 games.

Is Ronnie Brown a short-term (1-1.5 years) buy-low dynasty play? I realize he looks done but maybe he can rebound a touch and be a RB3...

I'm not a fan of buying 28 year old RBs because I think they might be a decent RB3. That doesn't seem like a winning strategy in the long term.

I think Ray Rice has been a bust in re-draft this year, but I'd bet his future is bright in Balto, and all he needs is more goalline touches and/or a mcgahee purge to be elite under any rubric.

ONE thing, though, that I bet helps all is dynasty is that the average footballguy gets bedazzled with random input from people that have an inherent PPR bias. THAT NOISE interferes with many signals, and most of us can gain leverage from that.

This is GREAT posting. PPR studs are always overrated in non-PPR leagues. It's a simple fact of life. Ironically, the only leagues that seem to be immune to this phenomenon, in my experience, are the guppy leagues- because those guppies only look at points scored.

:no:

19 was a pretty strong ranking for him pre-W1. Ahead of Grant, Forte, Mccoy, Felix. Look at SSOG's ranking history if you need more proof. It turns out it was still too low, but it was still ahead of the curve. Please, if you want to pick on people for weak Foster rankings, there are better targets.

This is exactly why we added the rankings archive- because people are really, really terrible at remembering how they felt in the past without letting all subsequent knowledge they've gained cloud their memory. I had him at 28th before the season, and if anything, I was high on him. I'm pretty sure every single one of the FBGs staff had him in the 30s.

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Good point about the PPR. In re-draft, there was no reason for Rice to be top 4 (non-PPR) and he often was. Gore outscored him last year (per game), and was the safer bet to repeat those numbers.

Yes, Gore outscored Rice last year in PPG. Yes, Gore was a much safer bet to repeat those numbers. No, Gore did not deserve to be ranked above Rice. Why? Because Ray Rice is 23 and Frank Gore is 27. That's like a 20 year age difference in RB years.

Are F&L's updated dynasty rankings behind a pay wall now? I can't find them.

Yes, they're part of Rotoworld's season pass package.

Thanks again for the work you put into the site. Love it. Few things:1. Not sure if the mistake was to kist Antonio Bryant as a Bengal, or if it was that he is even listed at all. 2. Any thoughts on Ajirotutu? 3. When does Plaxico become a savvy stash? Never?

1. There are a couple of players whose teams need to be changed. Bryant, Jerome Harrison, and Mike Bell are the three I can think of off-hand. I'll get that fixed as soon as I'm not sick of the sight of our website. :no:As for having Bryant listed... He's 29, he has a track record of production, he has real skills. It's very likely that his career has been derailed and will never get back on track... but it's not a certainty. Hell, if BMW can come back, anyone can. I think Bryant is as deserving of his spot as, say, Devin Thomas, just to pick the guy rated immediately after him. Thomas was cut by a franchise that was started the player formerly known as Joey Galloway at WR. When you're outside of the top 70, pretty much everyone is garbage, the goal is just to roster the garbage that doesn't reek quite as badly.2. Honestly... no. He's way off my radar. I don't know much about him other than that he fits the physical mold that San Diego loves. I would love to hear some thoughts on him from anyone with anything to add.3. I wouldn't blame anyone who stashed him, but I personally am not looking to add a 33 year old WR who has been out of the league for two years and who doesn't even seem to be on any NFL team's radar. If teams started sniffing around him, I'd stash him. Until then, I'd rather burn that roster spot on some young guys with urgency.

*Maclin and Britt rise from 27/28 to 23/24.200 yard receiving games are no guarantee of future greatness (just ask Rod Gardner and Eddie Kennison, who each had one as a rookie), but it's not a bad place to start. As for Maclin, the TDs are a fluke, but it turns out there is room for two productive WRs in Philly- it just comes at the expense of Brent Celek.*Golden Tate rises from WR40 to WR28.He's only caught a pass in 4 games. His stats are microscopic. With that said... on the few catches that he's had, he's looked like the real deal to me. His before-the-catch skills still need a lot of work, but his after-the-catch skills are already very impressive.

These 3 guys shouldn't be within 5 spots of each other. Britt/Maclin have better pedigrees, measurables, and production. Nothing wrong with projecting a guy but Golden Tate has the look of a great college player/NFL depth guy. I know it's early but I never understood why people were taking him over Mike Williams in rookie drafts.Kenny Britt in particular can show he can strap a passing attack on his back and carry it. Unless you think Tate turns into a young Stevonne SMith this ranking looks off.
Everyone gets ranked within 5 spots of someone. Someone has to be ranked 23rd, and someone has to be ranked 28th. Besides, it's not like they're "just" 5 spots apart- there's a whole tier separating them. There's a 12-point value drop.I've got a question for you- if you were me, how would you resolve that issue? Who is ahead of Britt/Maclin that you would move behind Britt/Maclin? Who is behind Golden Tate that you would move ahead of Golden Tate? How many spots apart do you think those players should be?As for how Tate looks... I can see how someone could watch him play and think he looks like an NFL depth guy. I've already said that when I watch him play, I see something different. I see someone who, if he can clean up his before-the-catch skills (and he's a rookie, so there's every reason to believe that he can), could make an impact in this league.

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Just wanted to toss out there a line to see what people are thinking of Brandon Marshall at MIA thus far through the season. After seeing his name pop up in one of Bloom's Thursday articles it got me thinking. I've always thought of him as a cornerstone (I don't take off for knuckleheadedness...), and I think he's looked good this year racking up targets, receptions, and yards. On the flip side, if this is going to define his role with the Phins (IE: lack of TDs), would now be the time to send him on his way while people still might perceive him as what he used to be? And if so, what would be a fair value to look for? Like a VJax level player or look at a Jeremy Maclin level. I've worked myself into a mental stalemate today over this...

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*Maclin and Britt rise from 27/28 to 23/24.200 yard receiving games are no guarantee of future greatness (just ask Rod Gardner and Eddie Kennison, who each had one as a rookie), but it's not a bad place to start. As for Maclin, the TDs are a fluke, but it turns out there is room for two productive WRs in Philly- it just comes at the expense of Brent Celek.*Golden Tate rises from WR40 to WR28.He's only caught a pass in 4 games. His stats are microscopic. With that said... on the few catches that he's had, he's looked like the real deal to me. His before-the-catch skills still need a lot of work, but his after-the-catch skills are already very impressive.

These 3 guys shouldn't be within 5 spots of each other. Britt/Maclin have better pedigrees, measurables, and production. Nothing wrong with projecting a guy but Golden Tate has the look of a great college player/NFL depth guy. I know it's early but I never understood why people were taking him over Mike Williams in rookie drafts.Kenny Britt in particular can show he can strap a passing attack on his back and carry it. Unless you think Tate turns into a young Stevonne SMith this ranking looks off.
Everyone gets ranked within 5 spots of someone. Someone has to be ranked 23rd, and someone has to be ranked 28th. Besides, it's not like they're "just" 5 spots apart- there's a whole tier separating them. There's a 12-point value drop.I've got a question for you- if you were me, how would you resolve that issue? Who is ahead of Britt/Maclin that you would move behind Britt/Maclin? Who is behind Golden Tate that you would move ahead of Golden Tate? How many spots apart do you think those players should be?As for how Tate looks... I can see how someone could watch him play and think he looks like an NFL depth guy. I've already said that when I watch him play, I see something different. I see someone who, if he can clean up his before-the-catch skills (and he's a rookie, so there's every reason to believe that he can), could make an impact in this league.
My fault for not further delving into your rankings. I saw your link and read where it took me.As for where I would have those guys, I'd have them in the 16-17 range right around Tampa Mike. I'd actually put Britt ahead and I've been one of Tampa Mike's biggest proponents on this board going back to May. I'm not sure about Maclin as being an NFL #1 WR but I'm putting my trust in the Eagles organization and system. They'd all be ahead of Santana Moss that's for sure. If I was sitting on Santana and someone offered me Britt/Tampa/Maclin/Demaryius, I'd be all over it.As for Golden Tate, you're right in the fact that there isn't much behind him. But I don't understand why he gets to lead the charge of the slap1cks? Like I said, if you think he's Stevonne Smith II, then it's reasonable. I just don't see him taking on NFL CBs and consistently winning. You seem to have a pretty strong opinion on Steve Breaston for instance yet he's 18 value points behind Golden Tate. I'd also rather have MSW, Bowe, Steve Smith North, Mike Thomas and even Davone Bess simply b/c some of these guys have some upside and others have settled into some solid production. I guess I'm just not a believer in Golden Tate being anything more than a #3 WR.

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Just wanted to toss out there a line to see what people are thinking of Brandon Marshall at MIA thus far through the season. After seeing his name pop up in one of Bloom's Thursday articles it got me thinking. I've always thought of him as a cornerstone (I don't take off for knuckleheadedness...), and I think he's looked good this year racking up targets, receptions, and yards. On the flip side, if this is going to define his role with the Phins (IE: lack of TDs), would now be the time to send him on his way while people still might perceive him as what he used to be? And if so, what would be a fair value to look for? Like a VJax level player or look at a Jeremy Maclin level. I've worked myself into a mental stalemate today over this...

I also ask myself this question. However, I sort of get the feeling most owners in my league seem to believe Marshall is no longer what "he used to be."

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With regard to Ajirotutu, consider the potential opportunity next year and beyond. Entering the season, these were the top 6 targets in San Diego's passing game: Gates, Jackson, Floyd, Naanee, Davis, Sproles.

- It seems likely Jackson will not be in San Diego next season.

- Floyd is a UFA after this season. He will be 30 next season and has had a hard time staying on the field throughout his career, so the Chargers may let him walk.

- Naanee is a free agent after this season. Not sure if he is RFA or UFA. He also has had a hard time staying healthy this year (foot in the offseason, hamstring in season), and he really hasn't shown much on the field so far, so the Chargers could let him walk.

- Davis has one more year on his contract at $840K. He has been unable to stay healthy, and Acee has speculated that he will be cut.

- Sproles has been tagged twice and has not actually proven to be worth it. He will be a UFA.

- Gates will obviously still be there and should still be a stud, albeit one year older... and he also continues to deal with foot problems that could be harder for him to deal with as he gets older.

I could see the Chargers retaining any number of these guys, most likely Floyd and Sproles, since there may not be a strong market for either of them. But it's also possible that all of them except Gates could be gone. Ajirotutu now has an opportunity to get some playing time the rest of this season and gain the confidence of the organization. If he plays well and they choose to let a number of these guys go, he could be a starting WR next season in a great passing offense. And he can be had for nothing right now.

None of that really speaks to his talent, though, nor to where he should be ranked (if at all). He played well in the preseason, and he is a prototypical Chargers WR at 6'3" 210. It seems like there is good potential there. Definitely interested in more opinions on his talent.

Edited by Just Win Baby

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*Maclin and Britt rise from 27/28 to 23/24.

200 yard receiving games are no guarantee of future greatness (just ask Rod Gardner and Eddie Kennison, who each had one as a rookie), but it's not a bad place to start. As for Maclin, the TDs are a fluke, but it turns out there is room for two productive WRs in Philly- it just comes at the expense of Brent Celek.

*Golden Tate rises from WR40 to WR28.

He's only caught a pass in 4 games. His stats are microscopic. With that said... on the few catches that he's had, he's looked like the real deal to me. His before-the-catch skills still need a lot of work, but his after-the-catch skills are already very impressive.

These 3 guys shouldn't be within 5 spots of each other. Britt/Maclin have better pedigrees, measurables, and production. Nothing wrong with projecting a guy but Golden Tate has the look of a great college player/NFL depth guy. I know it's early but I never understood why people were taking him over Mike Williams in rookie drafts.

Kenny Britt in particular can show he can strap a passing attack on his back and carry it. Unless you think Tate turns into a young Stevonne SMith this ranking looks off.

Everyone gets ranked within 5 spots of someone. Someone has to be ranked 23rd, and someone has to be ranked 28th. Besides, it's not like they're "just" 5 spots apart- there's a whole tier separating them. There's a 12-point value drop.

I've got a question for you- if you were me, how would you resolve that issue? Who is ahead of Britt/Maclin that you would move behind Britt/Maclin? Who is behind Golden Tate that you would move ahead of Golden Tate? How many spots apart do you think those players should be?

As for how Tate looks... I can see how someone could watch him play and think he looks like an NFL depth guy. I've already said that when I watch him play, I see something different. I see someone who, if he can clean up his before-the-catch skills (and he's a rookie, so there's every reason to believe that he can), could make an impact in this league.

My fault for not further delving into your rankings. I saw your link and read where it took me.

As for where I would have those guys, I'd have them in the 16-17 range right around Tampa Mike. I'd actually put Britt ahead and I've been one of Tampa Mike's biggest proponents on this board going back to May. I'm not sure about Maclin as being an NFL #1 WR but I'm putting my trust in the Eagles organization and system. They'd all be ahead of Santana Moss that's for sure. If I was sitting on Santana and someone offered me Britt/Tampa/Maclin/Demaryius, I'd be all over it.

As for Golden Tate, you're right in the fact that there isn't much behind him. But I don't understand why he gets to lead the charge of the slap1cks? Like I said, if you think he's Stevonne Smith II, then it's reasonable. I just don't see him taking on NFL CBs and consistently winning. You seem to have a pretty strong opinion on Steve Breaston for instance yet he's 18 value points behind Golden Tate. I'd also rather have MSW, Bowe, Steve Smith North, Mike Thomas and even Davone Bess simply b/c some of these guys have some upside and others have settled into some solid production. I guess I'm just not a believer in Golden Tate being anything more than a #3 WR.

I know NCAA football is different than NFL football, but Tate beat CBs ALL the time in NCAA on a weekly basis. He outran them, ran over them, outjumped them, etc. etc. at such a rate that I don't think that's even close to being his largest weakness. Watch some of his NCAA highlights for some video proof.

My issues with Golden Tate, like SSOG has stated, all occur before he makes a catch. The main ones being route running, and not catching the football with his outstretched hands. If Golden Tate can ever learn to run routes and catch the ball with his hands, (which may never happen, specifically the hand catching part) I think he's going to be the next Steve Smith (Carolina).

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Felix Jones looked horrible tonight. And this guy is supposed to be a super talented running back. He can't block a lick and I still haven't seen anything special. I see the Cowboys drafting a running back with their early pick since they are close to the worst team in the NFL.

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Felix Jones looked horrible tonight. And this guy is supposed to be a super talented running back. He can't block a lick and I still haven't seen anything special. I see the Cowboys drafting a running back with their early pick since they are close to the worst team in the NFL.

If you're close to the worst team in the NFL (which the Cowboys aren't), the last thing you should be doing is drafting a RB with a top 10 pick.

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Felix Jones looked horrible tonight. And this guy is supposed to be a super talented running back. He can't block a lick and I still haven't seen anything special. I see the Cowboys drafting a running back with their early pick since they are close to the worst team in the NFL.

If you're close to the worst team in the NFL (which the Cowboys aren't), the last thing you should be doing is drafting a RB with a top 10 pick.
You should draft a running back when you have absolutely no running game to speak of. And, yes, the Cowboys are very close to the worst team in the NFL. They have no offense, defense or special teams.

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Felix Jones looked horrible tonight. And this guy is supposed to be a super talented running back. He can't block a lick and I still haven't seen anything special. I see the Cowboys drafting a running back with their early pick since they are close to the worst team in the NFL.

If you're close to the worst team in the NFL (which the Cowboys aren't), the last thing you should be doing is drafting a RB with a top 10 pick.
You should draft a running back when you have absolutely no running game to speak of. And, yes, the Cowboys are very close to the worst team in the NFL. They have no offense, defense or special teams.
:rolleyes: They are getting shellacked one week after another.

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Just wanted to toss out there a line to see what people are thinking of Brandon Marshall at MIA thus far through the season. After seeing his name pop up in one of Bloom's Thursday articles it got me thinking. I've always thought of him as a cornerstone (I don't take off for knuckleheadedness...), and I think he's looked good this year racking up targets, receptions, and yards. On the flip side, if this is going to define his role with the Phins (IE: lack of TDs), would now be the time to send him on his way while people still might perceive him as what he used to be? And if so, what would be a fair value to look for? Like a VJax level player or look at a Jeremy Maclin level. I've worked myself into a mental stalemate today over this...

I also ask myself this question. However, I sort of get the feeling most owners in my league seem to believe Marshall is no longer what "he used to be."
He is on his way to a fourth, consecutive 100 plus catch season. In PPR he is still very good. TDs are unpredictable. I think the Finns will get a new QB and that will change things for the positive. But even with a sub-par QB he is still producing consistently. If you are in a TD heavy league, I could see being worried. But like I said, TDs are the least consistent stat.

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Felix Jones looked horrible tonight. And this guy is supposed to be a super talented running back. He can't block a lick and I still haven't seen anything special. I see the Cowboys drafting a running back with their early pick since they are close to the worst team in the NFL.

He was just traded in one of my leagues for two 1st round picks. I was shocked.

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You should draft a running back when you have absolutely no running game to speak of. And, yes, the Cowboys are very close to the worst team in the NFL. They have no offense, defense or special teams.

Should the Panthers also draft a running back? Jones looked just fine on his 5 carries, but he has no run blocking to speak of right now. You say they have no offense and yet the Cowboys are still top 10 in the NFL in yards/game. They may be playing like one of the worst teams in the NFL the past 2 weeks, but talent-wise they're not even close to that level.

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In a fight to make the playoffs, here's what I'm going to do to try and make my 2010 push & solidify my 2011-2012 outlook. Sometimes it helps me to read other guys strategy case-studies, so hopefully this is at least interesting, if not helpful, to someone else. And I apologize in advance for the ramble, but it also helps me to write out my thoughts.

I think the overall strategy question for discussion here is - are you comfortable with overpaying when you have the depth to do so?

** 12-team, no PPR, start 1QB/2RB/3WR/1TE, keep 8 players with max contract length of 3yrs.

** Currently 5-3, 2nd in division ... on the borderline of making 2010 playoffs.

** Staying a step ahead of the 3yr contract termination rule drives some of my thinking here.

Starting Lineup (bench):

QB: M Schaub (J Freeman)

RB: A Foster (R Rice)

RB: D McFadden (MJD)

WR: A Johnson (S Moss)

WR: L Fitzgerald

WR: D Bryant

TE: A Hernandez (D Clark - on IR)

=======================

Key points:

1. I have more RB depth than I can use. I can only keep 2 RB into next year, and can only start 2 RB each week.

2. I lose Matt Schaub after this year (3yr rule). Freeman is solid, but likely not top tier.

Strategy:

Trade away Schaub + RB to upgrade at QB.

=======================

Questions: (if you've made it this far and have to make similar decisions)

1. Who would you look to get rid of first at RB? I can keep MJD/RRice for the next 1.5 seasons. I can keep DMC/A Foster for the next 2.5 seasons. Right now I rank my RBs as 1) A Foster, 2) R Rice, 3) DMC, 4) MJD ... emphasis on 2010 championship run.

2. Which QB over the next 2.5 seasons would be worth targeting in return for Schaub + RB? My list is short - A Rodgers, T Romo, D Brees, P Manning ... probably in that order? If I go after Romo, I probably would be overpaying and of course would be rolling J Freeman out for the rest of 2010.

3. Am I overvaluing Schaub? I wonder what the Rodgers/Romo/Brees/Manning owners would do with this offer if they needed RB help? Schaub is a solid 10-12 ranked QB. This is a Houston-based league, so that may color folks perception. Feels fair, but I don't want to kill a trade before it starts.

=======================

Planned Action:

1. First offer is going to be: Schaub / MJD / Ringer ... for ... Rodgers / backup WR / backup RB (FYI - he is the CJ3 owner)

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Good point about the PPR. In re-draft, there was no reason for Rice to be top 4 (non-PPR) and he often was. Gore outscored him last year (per game), and was the safer bet to repeat those numbers.

Yes, Gore outscored Rice last year in PPG. Yes, Gore was a much safer bet to repeat those numbers. No, Gore did not deserve to be ranked above Rice. Why? Because Ray Rice is 23 and Frank Gore is 27. That's like a 20 year age difference in RB years.
I was talking about re-draft drafts, not dynasty rankings or start ups.

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Wow, I don't mean to sound like a jerk or a tool because normally you bring the goods, but this is one of the worst arguments I've ever seen. If the Vikings never gave AP more than 16 carries, he wouldn't be ranked as high. If Chris Johnson got injured every 10th carry, he wouldn't be ranked as high. If Maurice Jones-Drew was splitting carries 50/50 with Deji Karim, he wouldn't be ranked as high. If my auntie had balls, she'd be my uncle. If Peyton Manning had had his arm amputated as a rookie, he wouldn't be a hall of famer. If my wife was 10 years old, I'd be in prison. Adrian Peterson *DOESN'T* get limited to 10 or fewer carries in 80% of his games, because he's ADRIAN FREAKING PETERSON. Chris Johnson does not get hurt every 10 carries because he's CHRIS FREAKING JOHNSON. Maurice Jones-Drew does not split carries 50/50 with Deji Karim because he's MAURICE FREAKING JONES-DREW. My wife is not 10 years old because that's seriously icky. And my aunt does have balls, but they're fake, and we call her "Uncle Sally", so the point stands.

1st, I don't think you get my point, so I will use an example: Jamaal Charles. Before Charles was given a chance to be the man, nobody knew if he could be. I think Felix is a special talent, and has shown us flashes of that, when he has been given the chance. I think he can be a top 10 RB in the NFL, and a top 10 RB in the fantasy world too. If you don't agree, then our argument really just comes down to that simple fact. My point with AP was to simply state that Felix can't control how many carries he gets. It is PAINFULLY obvious to us Cowboys fans that Marion brings nothing to the table that Felix doesn't, sans pass protection, which - admittedly - can be huge. Yet, Barber is getting a lot of carries, most of which, should be going to Felix. But even if you remove Barber from the roster, the Cowboys have abandoned the run completely, have an awful, injured, make-#### offensive line, and a mistake prone QB (Kitna) that teams want to "beat them."It is easy to pile on Felix and anyone on the Dallas roster right now. That doesn't change the fact that prior to this horrible year, Felix did just about all you could ask with the carries he was given. And lastly, re: my Adrian Peterson argument, you seem to give Charles a pass, despite not getting the lion's share of the carries. You don't knock him down your rankings, because you and I both know, and agree on the notion that Charles is ultra talented, and once Haley wakes up, Jones breaks down, or any number of things change, Charles could put up top 3 numbers, like he did over the 2nd half of last year. I think Felix could too, given the opportunity. If you don't, again, our argument is based on that simple fact and everything else is moot.

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Felix Jones looked horrible tonight. And this guy is supposed to be a super talented running back. He can't block a lick and I still haven't seen anything special. I see the Cowboys drafting a running back with their early pick since they are close to the worst team in the NFL.

If you're close to the worst team in the NFL (which the Cowboys aren't), the last thing you should be doing is drafting a RB with a top 10 pick.
You should draft a running back when you have absolutely no running game to speak of. And, yes, the Cowboys are very close to the worst team in the NFL. They have no offense, defense or special teams.
Your argument is so silly. It is obvious that the offensive line is the problem. Felix didn't go from 6YPC to 4, becuase he lost a step at 23.1. The staff needs to go.2. They need a coach that won't be Jerry's puppet.3. The secondary needs major help.4. The O-line needs to be fixed.5. Marion needs to go, and Felix needs to start.And as the other poster pointed out, assuming the Cowboys are horrible, even with Romo back and a new staff, and Felix is not the answer, you don't start fixing that by drafting a RB with a top 5 pick, and I love Ingram.

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Just wanted to toss out there a line to see what people are thinking of Brandon Marshall at MIA thus far through the season. After seeing his name pop up in one of Bloom's Thursday articles it got me thinking. I've always thought of him as a cornerstone (I don't take off for knuckleheadedness...), and I think he's looked good this year racking up targets, receptions, and yards. On the flip side, if this is going to define his role with the Phins (IE: lack of TDs), would now be the time to send him on his way while people still might perceive him as what he used to be? And if so, what would be a fair value to look for? Like a VJax level player or look at a Jeremy Maclin level. I've worked myself into a mental stalemate today over this...

I also ask myself this question. However, I sort of get the feeling most owners in my league seem to believe Marshall is no longer what "he used to be."
How is he not what he used to be? He is still just as talented, and is performing after getting major bucks, which some worried about. You don't look to sell low on guys who are just as talented and getting just as many looks as they were when your drafted/traded for them. That negates all value, and ruins potential value moving forward too.

This is a dynasty thread and it is WAY too early to start thinking that Marshall's value has taken a major hit in dynasty formats. Talent > situation, and it is not as though he is putting up "0"s.

Brandon Marshall is a big buy now if you don't own him, and a hold if you do.

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Felix Jones looked horrible tonight. And this guy is supposed to be a super talented running back. He can't block a lick and I still haven't seen anything special. I see the Cowboys drafting a running back with their early pick since they are close to the worst team in the NFL.

If you're close to the worst team in the NFL (which the Cowboys aren't), the last thing you should be doing is drafting a RB with a top 10 pick.

Why not?

The Bills did this year, and that plan has worked out wonderfully. :hifive:

;)

Edited by hostile

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Just wanted to toss out there a line to see what people are thinking of Brandon Marshall at MIA thus far through the season. After seeing his name pop up in one of Bloom's Thursday articles it got me thinking. I've always thought of him as a cornerstone (I don't take off for knuckleheadedness...), and I think he's looked good this year racking up targets, receptions, and yards. On the flip side, if this is going to define his role with the Phins (IE: lack of TDs), would now be the time to send him on his way while people still might perceive him as what he used to be? And if so, what would be a fair value to look for? Like a VJax level player or look at a Jeremy Maclin level. I've worked myself into a mental stalemate today over this...

I also ask myself this question. However, I sort of get the feeling most owners in my league seem to believe Marshall is no longer what "he used to be."
How is he not what he used to be? He is still just as talented, and is performing after getting major bucks, which some worried about. You don't look to sell low on guys who are just as talented and getting just as many looks as they were when your drafted/traded for them. That negates all value, and ruins potential value moving forward too.

This is a dynasty thread and it is WAY too early to start thinking that Marshall's value has taken a major hit in dynasty formats. Talent > situation, and it is not as though he is putting up "0"s.

Brandon Marshall is a big buy now if you don't own him, and a hold if you do.

Many of us were never high on Brandon Marshall anyways. This type of year is what we expected. Merely catching tons of balls doesn't make you an elite dynasty WR. Ah hello?

Also, Felix gained weight this off season to try to stay healthy when he got hit if I remember right. For many guys who are relying on speed to get them good numbers, the decision to gain weight costs them in that it slows them down and they were never really that talented, they were just fast. So, now you got a guy who is average speed who stays healthy... meh.

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Just wanted to toss out there a line to see what people are thinking of Brandon Marshall at MIA thus far through the season. After seeing his name pop up in one of Bloom's Thursday articles it got me thinking. I've always thought of him as a cornerstone (I don't take off for knuckleheadedness...), and I think he's looked good this year racking up targets, receptions, and yards. On the flip side, if this is going to define his role with the Phins (IE: lack of TDs), would now be the time to send him on his way while people still might perceive him as what he used to be? And if so, what would be a fair value to look for? Like a VJax level player or look at a Jeremy Maclin level. I've worked myself into a mental stalemate today over this...

I also ask myself this question. However, I sort of get the feeling most owners in my league seem to believe Marshall is no longer what "he used to be."
How is he not what he used to be? He is still just as talented, and is performing after getting major bucks, which some worried about. You don't look to sell low on guys who are just as talented and getting just as many looks as they were when your drafted/traded for them. That negates all value, and ruins potential value moving forward too.

This is a dynasty thread and it is WAY too early to start thinking that Marshall's value has taken a major hit in dynasty formats. Talent > situation, and it is not as though he is putting up "0"s.

Brandon Marshall is a big buy now if you don't own him, and a hold if you do.

Many of us were never high on Brandon Marshall anyways. This type of year is what we expected. Merely catching tons of balls doesn't make you an elite dynasty WR. Ah hello?

Also, Felix gained weight this off season to try to stay healthy when he got hit if I remember right. For many guys who are relying on speed to get them good numbers, the decision to gain weight costs them in that it slows them down and they were never really that talented, they were just fast. So, now you got a guy who is average speed who stays healthy... meh.

If you were never high on him, that is one thing. Catching a ton of balls shows that you are still a major part of the offense, and still being given opportunity. If you want to point the figer at someone for the Phins not getting into the endzone, I don't know how logical it is to start with Brandon Marshall. He will get touchdowns.

As for Felix: Average speed? Compared to who? That is a silly comment.

And if you haven't watched the games, I don't know why you would comment. If you have watched the games, how can you not see that the O-line is horrid, as is the play calling?

Prior to this week, Jones' YPC was equal to that of CJ2K and Ray Rice. Granted, being the lead guy will lower your YPC, and I know that. But lets not act as though he has been horrible.

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Just wanted to toss out there a line to see what people are thinking of Brandon Marshall at MIA thus far through the season. After seeing his name pop up in one of Bloom's Thursday articles it got me thinking. I've always thought of him as a cornerstone (I don't take off for knuckleheadedness...), and I think he's looked good this year racking up targets, receptions, and yards. On the flip side, if this is going to define his role with the Phins (IE: lack of TDs), would now be the time to send him on his way while people still might perceive him as what he used to be? And if so, what would be a fair value to look for? Like a VJax level player or look at a Jeremy Maclin level. I've worked myself into a mental stalemate today over this...

I also ask myself this question. However, I sort of get the feeling most owners in my league seem to believe Marshall is no longer what "he used to be."
How is he not what he used to be? He is still just as talented, and is performing after getting major bucks, which some worried about. You don't look to sell low on guys who are just as talented and getting just as many looks as they were when your drafted/traded for them. That negates all value, and ruins potential value moving forward too.

This is a dynasty thread and it is WAY too early to start thinking that Marshall's value has taken a major hit in dynasty formats. Talent > situation, and it is not as though he is putting up "0"s.

Brandon Marshall is a big buy now if you don't own him, and a hold if you do.

Many of us were never high on Brandon Marshall anyways. This type of year is what we expected. Merely catching tons of balls doesn't make you an elite dynasty WR. Ah hello?

Also, Felix gained weight this off season to try to stay healthy when he got hit if I remember right. For many guys who are relying on speed to get them good numbers, the decision to gain weight costs them in that it slows them down and they were never really that talented, they were just fast. So, now you got a guy who is average speed who stays healthy... meh.

If you were never high on him, that is one thing. Catching a ton of balls shows that you are still a major part of the offense, and still being given opportunity. If you want to point the figer at someone for the Phins not getting into the endzone, I don't know how logical it is to start with Brandon Marshall. He will get touchdowns.

As for Felix: Average speed? Compared to who? That is a silly comment.

And if you haven't watched the games, I don't know why you would comment. If you have watched the games, how can you not see that the O-line is horrid, as is the play calling?

Prior to this week, Jones' YPC was equal to that of CJ2K and Ray Rice. Granted, being the lead guy will lower your YPC, and I know that. But lets not act as though he has been horrible.

He is completely average. I don't know why you think he could be top 10. That is ludicrous to me. He had speed and now he has..... nothing.

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He is completely average. I don't know why you think he could be top 10. That is ludicrous to me. He had speed and now he has..... nothing.

That is your opinion. An easy opinion to have now. He has great vision, elite ability to plant and go, he keeps his feet close to the turf, he has great burst, great speed, and can make people miss without much side to side movement. There was nothing average about his advanced stats, up to this year. Felix Jones is not the reason why Cowboys are awful now. He is also not the reason teams are stacking the box, asking Jon Kita to beat them, nor is he the reason the Cowboys have given up on the run completely. It is easy to call him average now, after the team has given up, and he has no room to run. Is Miles Austin average too? His numbers will start looking average soon.

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He is completely average. I don't know why you think he could be top 10. That is ludicrous to me. He had speed and now he has..... nothing.

That is your opinion. An easy opinion to have now. He has great vision, elite ability to plant and go, he keeps his feet close to the turf, he has great burst, great speed, and can make people miss without much side to side movement. There was nothing average about his advanced stats, up to this year. Felix Jones is not the reason why Cowboys are awful now. He is also not the reason teams are stacking the box, asking Jon Kita to beat them, nor is he the reason the Cowboys have given up on the run completely. It is easy to call him average now, after the team has given up, and he has no room to run. Is Miles Austin average too? His numbers will start looking average soon.
I've passed on every opportunity given to trade for Felix. I have always thought he was average at best and NOT a full time RB. I view him as a Jerrious Norwood guy who looks great with limited touches but is not an every down back. I don't like him in dynasty and have never liked him. It has nothing to do with his stats and everything to do with his being completely over rated. He never gets a lot of carries, and thats because the coaches who see him every day and know him better than you do not think he can handle it.Miles Austin is an elite WR, and I will happily hold him in one league and try to trade for him in another. Dynasty has to do with talent over situation and Felix is not an elite talent in my book.

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Felix Jones may or may not have top 10 running talent, but it makes no differance whatsoever as long as his pass-blocking talent is Junior college level stuff. Nobody can be a "feature back" with blocking like Felix showed last night.

Pass

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Felix Jones may or may not have top 10 running talent, but it makes no differance whatsoever as long as his pass-blocking talent is Junior college level stuff. Nobody can be a "feature back" with blocking like Felix showed last night.Pass

This is the first Cowboys game in years that I didn't bother (couldn't stomach) to watch, so I won't pretend to know what took place last night. I will say that his pass blocking has never been an issue while he has been playing a large role in the past, including his two great games agains the Eagles last year, who love to bring pressure.

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He is completely average. I don't know why you think he could be top 10. That is ludicrous to me. He had speed and now he has..... nothing.

That is your opinion. An easy opinion to have now. He has great vision, elite ability to plant and go, he keeps his feet close to the turf, he has great burst, great speed, and can make people miss without much side to side movement. There was nothing average about his advanced stats, up to this year. Felix Jones is not the reason why Cowboys are awful now. He is also not the reason teams are stacking the box, asking Jon Kita to beat them, nor is he the reason the Cowboys have given up on the run completely. It is easy to call him average now, after the team has given up, and he has no room to run. Is Miles Austin average too? His numbers will start looking average soon.
I've passed on every opportunity given to trade for Felix. I have always thought he was average at best and NOT a full time RB. I view him as a Jerrious Norwood guy who looks great with limited touches but is not an every down back. I don't like him in dynasty and have never liked him. It has nothing to do with his stats and everything to do with his being completely over rated. He never gets a lot of carries, and thats because the coaches who see him every day and know him better than you do not think he can handle it.Miles Austin is an elite WR, and I will happily hold him in one league and try to trade for him in another. Dynasty has to do with talent over situation and Felix is not an elite talent in my book.
Those coaches are out the door after this season. Those coaches turned the ball over to Felix when they needed a win to save their jobs (playoffs last year), and Felix did what they asked and more. Thos coaches don't run the ball at all, let alone with Felix. Those coaches are idiots. Edited by Concept Coop

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He is completely average. I don't know why you think he could be top 10. That is ludicrous to me. He had speed and now he has..... nothing.

That is your opinion. An easy opinion to have now. He has great vision, elite ability to plant and go, he keeps his feet close to the turf, he has great burst, great speed, and can make people miss without much side to side movement. There was nothing average about his advanced stats, up to this year. Felix Jones is not the reason why Cowboys are awful now. He is also not the reason teams are stacking the box, asking Jon Kita to beat them, nor is he the reason the Cowboys have given up on the run completely. It is easy to call him average now, after the team has given up, and he has no room to run. Is Miles Austin average too? His numbers will start looking average soon.
I've passed on every opportunity given to trade for Felix. I have always thought he was average at best and NOT a full time RB. I view him as a Jerrious Norwood guy who looks great with limited touches but is not an every down back. I don't like him in dynasty and have never liked him. It has nothing to do with his stats and everything to do with his being completely over rated. He never gets a lot of carries, and thats because the coaches who see him every day and know him better than you do not think he can handle it.Miles Austin is an elite WR, and I will happily hold him in one league and try to trade for him in another. Dynasty has to do with talent over situation and Felix is not an elite talent in my book.
Those coaches are out the door after this season. Those coaches turned the ball over to Felix when they needed a win to save their jobs (playoffs last year), and Felix did what they asked and more. Thos coaches don't run the ball at all, let alone with Felix. Those coaches are idiots.
Excuses.... Reminds me of the rampant Slaton love we had in here for awhile. Only Slaton actually deserved his more than Felix does.

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Excuses.... Reminds me of the rampant Slaton love we had in here for awhile. Only Slaton actually deserved his more than Felix does.

Ha ha. Okay. More like the Darren McFadden excuses before he blew up. Look, I could be wrong, and I am not arguing that Felix is a top 10 FF back right now, or in dynasty formats - not even close. But he is talented and I think that will translate once he gets a shot, and Jerry cleans up the mess he made. He could be a Steve Slaton, or he could be Darren McFadden. It is easy to sit where you are, right now, and call him a bust like DMC was before this year. It would have been special to predict DMC's breakout during the period where it was unpopular to do so. Based on talent, I think Felix is going to produce as soon as next year.

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Wow, I don't mean to sound like a jerk or a tool because normally you bring the goods, but this is one of the worst arguments I've ever seen. If the Vikings never gave AP more than 16 carries, he wouldn't be ranked as high. If Chris Johnson got injured every 10th carry, he wouldn't be ranked as high. If Maurice Jones-Drew was splitting carries 50/50 with Deji Karim, he wouldn't be ranked as high. If my auntie had balls, she'd be my uncle. If Peyton Manning had had his arm amputated as a rookie, he wouldn't be a hall of famer. If my wife was 10 years old, I'd be in prison. Adrian Peterson *DOESN'T* get limited to 10 or fewer carries in 80% of his games, because he's ADRIAN FREAKING PETERSON. Chris Johnson does not get hurt every 10 carries because he's CHRIS FREAKING JOHNSON. Maurice Jones-Drew does not split carries 50/50 with Deji Karim because he's MAURICE FREAKING JONES-DREW. My wife is not 10 years old because that's seriously icky. And my aunt does have balls, but they're fake, and we call her "Uncle Sally", so the point stands.

1st, I don't think you get my point, so I will use an example: Jamaal Charles. Before Charles was given a chance to be the man, nobody knew if he could be. I think Felix is a special talent, and has shown us flashes of that, when he has been given the chance. I think he can be a top 10 RB in the NFL, and a top 10 RB in the fantasy world too. If you don't agree, then our argument really just comes down to that simple fact.

My point with AP was to simply state that Felix can't control how many carries he gets. It is PAINFULLY obvious to us Cowboys fans that Marion brings nothing to the table that Felix doesn't, sans pass protection, which - admittedly - can be huge. Yet, Barber is getting a lot of carries, most of which, should be going to Felix. But even if you remove Barber from the roster, the Cowboys have abandoned the run completely, have an awful, injured, make-#### offensive line, and a mistake prone QB (Kitna) that teams want to "beat them."

It is easy to pile on Felix and anyone on the Dallas roster right now. That doesn't change the fact that prior to this horrible year, Felix did just about all you could ask with the carries he was given.

And lastly, re: my Adrian Peterson argument, you seem to give Charles a pass, despite not getting the lion's share of the carries. You don't knock him down your rankings, because you and I both know, and agree on the notion that Charles is ultra talented, and once Haley wakes up, Jones breaks down, or any number of things change, Charles could put up top 3 numbers, like he did over the 2nd half of last year. I think Felix could too, given the opportunity. If you don't, again, our argument is based on that simple fact and everything else is moot.

You think he is "special" and a top 10 talent in the NFL. I just think thats outright silly. NOT because of his current stats but because he has not shown anything to warrant that belief outside of being a cowboy and you are a homer.

Dude, give up. You are over your head on this one. What's it going to take? New coaches will come in and NOT give him the reigns and they will be dumb too in your eyes. He is what he is. A talented committee back, but not a guy who can be an every down RB. He has done nothing to show he can be an every down RB, and I can't figure out why you think he can be.

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Wow, I don't mean to sound like a jerk or a tool because normally you bring the goods, but this is one of the worst arguments I've ever seen. If the Vikings never gave AP more than 16 carries, he wouldn't be ranked as high. If Chris Johnson got injured every 10th carry, he wouldn't be ranked as high. If Maurice Jones-Drew was splitting carries 50/50 with Deji Karim, he wouldn't be ranked as high. If my auntie had balls, she'd be my uncle. If Peyton Manning had had his arm amputated as a rookie, he wouldn't be a hall of famer. If my wife was 10 years old, I'd be in prison. Adrian Peterson *DOESN'T* get limited to 10 or fewer carries in 80% of his games, because he's ADRIAN FREAKING PETERSON. Chris Johnson does not get hurt every 10 carries because he's CHRIS FREAKING JOHNSON. Maurice Jones-Drew does not split carries 50/50 with Deji Karim because he's MAURICE FREAKING JONES-DREW. My wife is not 10 years old because that's seriously icky. And my aunt does have balls, but they're fake, and we call her "Uncle Sally", so the point stands.

1st, I don't think you get my point, so I will use an example: Jamaal Charles. Before Charles was given a chance to be the man, nobody knew if he could be. I think Felix is a special talent, and has shown us flashes of that, when he has been given the chance. I think he can be a top 10 RB in the NFL, and a top 10 RB in the fantasy world too. If you don't agree, then our argument really just comes down to that simple fact.

My point with AP was to simply state that Felix can't control how many carries he gets. It is PAINFULLY obvious to us Cowboys fans that Marion brings nothing to the table that Felix doesn't, sans pass protection, which - admittedly - can be huge. Yet, Barber is getting a lot of carries, most of which, should be going to Felix. But even if you remove Barber from the roster, the Cowboys have abandoned the run completely, have an awful, injured, make-#### offensive line, and a mistake prone QB (Kitna) that teams want to "beat them."

It is easy to pile on Felix and anyone on the Dallas roster right now. That doesn't change the fact that prior to this horrible year, Felix did just about all you could ask with the carries he was given.

And lastly, re: my Adrian Peterson argument, you seem to give Charles a pass, despite not getting the lion's share of the carries. You don't knock him down your rankings, because you and I both know, and agree on the notion that Charles is ultra talented, and once Haley wakes up, Jones breaks down, or any number of things change, Charles could put up top 3 numbers, like he did over the 2nd half of last year. I think Felix could too, given the opportunity. If you don't, again, our argument is based on that simple fact and everything else is moot.

You think he is "special" and a top 10 talent in the NFL. I just think thats outright silly. NOT because of his current stats but because he has not shown anything to warrant that belief outside of being a cowboy and you are a homer.

Dude, give up. You are over your head on this one. What's it going to take? New coaches will come in and NOT give him the reigns and they will be dumb too in your eyes. He is what he is. A talented committee back, but not a guy who can be an every down RB. He has done nothing to show he can be an every down RB, and I can't figure out why you think he can be.

Give it up? My opinion is not based on what is popular, if it was, I would be sharing yours. Why would I give that up? How can you give up an honest opinion?

I am not a homer. I will tell you right now why Miles Austin was overrated and not a better player than Sidney Rice. I don't own many Cowboys in any format. I don't let my being a Cowboys fan mix with me being a FF owner.

He has not shown anything? Care to rephrase that? Because that is simply wrong. Before this year, he proved that he was as productive as anyone, based on YPC.

Before DMC was what he is now, what had he shown? A whole lot less than Felix.

Lastly, I have shared with you what I see in Felix that makes me think he could be top 10. Why don't you share your reasons why he won't be. If you are basing it on number of carries, or this season, you are not understanding my question.

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Wow, I don't mean to sound like a jerk or a tool because normally you bring the goods, but this is one of the worst arguments I've ever seen. If the Vikings never gave AP more than 16 carries, he wouldn't be ranked as high. If Chris Johnson got injured every 10th carry, he wouldn't be ranked as high. If Maurice Jones-Drew was splitting carries 50/50 with Deji Karim, he wouldn't be ranked as high. If my auntie had balls, she'd be my uncle. If Peyton Manning had had his arm amputated as a rookie, he wouldn't be a hall of famer. If my wife was 10 years old, I'd be in prison. Adrian Peterson *DOESN'T* get limited to 10 or fewer carries in 80% of his games, because he's ADRIAN FREAKING PETERSON. Chris Johnson does not get hurt every 10 carries because he's CHRIS FREAKING JOHNSON. Maurice Jones-Drew does not split carries 50/50 with Deji Karim because he's MAURICE FREAKING JONES-DREW. My wife is not 10 years old because that's seriously icky. And my aunt does have balls, but they're fake, and we call her "Uncle Sally", so the point stands.

1st, I don't think you get my point, so I will use an example: Jamaal Charles. Before Charles was given a chance to be the man, nobody knew if he could be. I think Felix is a special talent, and has shown us flashes of that, when he has been given the chance. I think he can be a top 10 RB in the NFL, and a top 10 RB in the fantasy world too. If you don't agree, then our argument really just comes down to that simple fact.

My point with AP was to simply state that Felix can't control how many carries he gets. It is PAINFULLY obvious to us Cowboys fans that Marion brings nothing to the table that Felix doesn't, sans pass protection, which - admittedly - can be huge. Yet, Barber is getting a lot of carries, most of which, should be going to Felix. But even if you remove Barber from the roster, the Cowboys have abandoned the run completely, have an awful, injured, make-#### offensive line, and a mistake prone QB (Kitna) that teams want to "beat them."

It is easy to pile on Felix and anyone on the Dallas roster right now. That doesn't change the fact that prior to this horrible year, Felix did just about all you could ask with the carries he was given.

And lastly, re: my Adrian Peterson argument, you seem to give Charles a pass, despite not getting the lion's share of the carries. You don't knock him down your rankings, because you and I both know, and agree on the notion that Charles is ultra talented, and once Haley wakes up, Jones breaks down, or any number of things change, Charles could put up top 3 numbers, like he did over the 2nd half of last year. I think Felix could too, given the opportunity. If you don't, again, our argument is based on that simple fact and everything else is moot.

You think he is "special" and a top 10 talent in the NFL. I just think thats outright silly. NOT because of his current stats but because he has not shown anything to warrant that belief outside of being a cowboy and you are a homer.

Dude, give up. You are over your head on this one. What's it going to take? New coaches will come in and NOT give him the reigns and they will be dumb too in your eyes. He is what he is. A talented committee back, but not a guy who can be an every down RB. He has done nothing to show he can be an every down RB, and I can't figure out why you think he can be.

Give it up? My opinion is not based on what is popular, if it was, I would be sharing yours. Why would I give that up? How can you give up an honest opinion?

I am not a homer. I will tell you right now why Miles Austin was overrated and not a better player than Sidney Rice. I don't own many Cowboys in any format. I don't let my being a Cowboys fan mix with me being a FF owner.

He has not shown anything? Care to rephrase that? Because that is simply wrong. Before this year, he proved that he was as productive as anyone, based on YPC.

Before DMC was what he is now, what had he shown? A whole lot less than Felix.

Lastly, I have shared with you what I see in Felix that makes me think he could be top 10. Why don't you share your reasons why he won't be. If you are basing it on number of carries, or this season, you are not understanding my question.

lol

No longer as fast as he was and that speed was about his only distinguishing bright spot.

Has never had a feature RB's share of the carries because to date he has never shown he can handle that or excel with it.

Is on a team built to excel in the passing game.

Like I said YPC made other backs similar to Felix look good too. YPC means nothing if you can't handle full time RB carries.

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So where do we value Donald Brown these days? I'm having a hard time considering him a long term solution in Indy anymore and I'm wondering if I'm missing something. Is he even a top 30 Dynasty back right now? He's still very young with a solid pedigree but I'm not sure the situation is as good as it was before the season.

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lol

No longer as fast as he was and that speed was about his only distinguishing bright spot.

Has never had a feature RB's share of the carries because to date he has never shown he can handle that or excel with it.

Is on a team built to excel in the passing game.

Like I said YPC made other backs similar to Felix look good too. YPC means nothing if you can't handle full time RB carries.

Wow.

So he is not as fast (opinion) as he once was and has never been given a chance to carry a full load? Okay. If that is all it takes to be a bust, or not have talent, then you are right. You were right about McFadden, a year ago, too. Jamaal Charles 1.5 years ago too. Ray Rice 2 years ago.

Please tell me how you know Felix can't carry the full load. Have you seen him try and fail? And how do you know what the next coaching staff is going to do, as far as pass/run ratio?

Edited by Concept Coop

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So where do we value Donald Brown these days? I'm having a hard time considering him a long term solution in Indy anymore and I'm wondering if I'm missing something. Is he even a top 30 Dynasty back right now? He's still very young with a solid pedigree but I'm not sure the situation is as good as it was before the season.

I was thinking about how eerily similar his stats were to Danny Woodhead this weekend. They might more or less be the same back. He's still top 35 or so but only because there's so few guys below him worth buying.

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Looks like it may be time to buy Felix.

And yes, definitely time to move Steve Johnson up. I'm sure I'm early with this and that the serious rankers here will disagree, but I think he's Chad Johnson II, and would rather own him than Crabtree, Sidney Rice, Percy Harvin, Mike Williams, Santana Moss and Brandon Lloyd (using SSOG's 11-20 ranked WRs). But I'd put him behind Wayne, Boldin, Jennings, Colston and maybe Dem Thomas - so something like #WR15. Still sick that I dropped this guy once Buffalo didn't land a QB in the draft.

Edited by wdcrob

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Looks like it may be time to buy Felix.And yes, definitely time to move Steve Johnson up. I think he's Chad Johnson II, and would rather own him than Crabtree, Sidney Rice, Percy Harvin, Mike Williams, Santana Moss and Brandon Lloyd (using SSOG's 11-20 ranked WRs). But I'd put him behind Wayne, Boldin, Jennings, Colston and maybe Dem Thomas - so something like #WR15. Still sick that I dropped this guy once Buffalo didn't land a QB in the draft.

That high? Above Crabtree, Harvin, and Mike Will who have shown top notch skills? I could see for the short term if you're lookin to win your league but not dynasty.

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Looks like it may be time to buy Felix.And yes, definitely time to move Steve Johnson up. I think he's Chad Johnson II, and would rather own him than Crabtree, Sidney Rice, Percy Harvin, Mike Williams, Santana Moss and Brandon Lloyd (using SSOG's 11-20 ranked WRs). But I'd put him behind Wayne, Boldin, Jennings, Colston and maybe Dem Thomas - so something like #WR15. Still sick that I dropped this guy once Buffalo didn't land a QB in the draft.

That high? Above Crabtree, Harvin, and Mike Will who have shown top notch skills? I could see for the short term if you're lookin to win your league but not dynasty.
I was on the fence about Harvin when I wrote that. So no argument there.Mike Williams may have gotten his #### together, but he may also be a ticking time bomb. Guys that have those kinds of issues in college don't usually just leave the baggage at the door when they get to the NFL. YMMV - he's obviously got tons of talent.And I know it's blasphemy, but I wasn't convinced Crabtree was an elite NFL WR when he came out and haven't seen anything from him in the NFL that made me change my mind. So you can chalk that one up to personal bias. Very willing to be wrong given the fact that I'm on that island by myself.(I'm not saying I'd trade those guys for him.)Regardless, I thought Johnson was truly elite at the best skill a WR can have - getting open - coming out of college. And now it appears that he's elite at it in the NFL too. Don't see any reason he won't continue doing it for a long time. So it could be confirmation bias here, but I bet we look back later and he's a top 20 WR.

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And yes, definitely time to move Steve Johnson up. I'm sure I'm early with this and that the serious rankers here will disagree, but I think he's Chad Johnson II, and would rather own him than Crabtree, Sidney Rice, Percy Harvin, Mike Williams, Santana Moss and Brandon Lloyd (using SSOG's 11-20 ranked WRs). But I'd put him behind Wayne, Boldin, Jennings, Colston and maybe Dem Thomas - so something like #WR15. Still sick that I dropped this guy once Buffalo didn't land a QB in the draft.

I think you're crazy, but apparently one of my leaguemates disagrees because he just traded Brees for Orton + SteveJohnson.

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Looks like it may be time to buy Felix.

And yes, definitely time to move Steve Johnson up. I think he's Chad Johnson II, and would rather own him than Crabtree, Sidney Rice, Percy Harvin, Mike Williams, Santana Moss and Brandon Lloyd (using SSOG's 11-20 ranked WRs). But I'd put him behind Wayne, Boldin, Jennings, Colston and maybe Dem Thomas - so something like #WR15. Still sick that I dropped this guy once Buffalo didn't land a QB in the draft.

That high? Above Crabtree, Harvin, and Mike Will who have shown top notch skills? I could see for the short term if you're lookin to win your league but not dynasty.
I was on the fence about Harvin when I wrote that. So no argument there.

Mike Williams may have gotten his #### together, but he may also be a ticking time bomb. Guys that have those kinds of issues in college don't usually just leave the baggage at the door when they get to the NFL. YMMV - he's obviously got tons of talent.

And I know it's blasphemy, but I wasn't convinced Crabtree was an elite NFL WR when he came out and haven't seen anything from him in the NFL that made me change my mind. So you can chalk that one up to personal bias. Very willing to be wrong given the fact that I'm on that island by myself.

(I'm not saying I'd trade those guys for him.)

Regardless, I thought Johnson was truly elite at the best skill a WR can have - getting open - coming out of college. And now it appears that he's elite at it in the NFL too. Don't see any reason he won't continue doing it for a long time. So it could be confirmation bias here, but I bet we look back later and he's a top 20 WR.

I remember Cecil & Sigmond showcasing him on DraftGuys and saying the same thing. I wish they did more of those.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tj_6OZ7n6ao

Edited by Steed

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Looks like it may be time to buy Felix.

And yes, definitely time to move Steve Johnson up. I'm sure I'm early with this and that the serious rankers here will disagree, but I think he's Chad Johnson II, and would rather own him than Crabtree, Sidney Rice, Percy Harvin, Mike Williams, Santana Moss and Brandon Lloyd (using SSOG's 11-20 ranked WRs). But I'd put him behind Wayne, Boldin, Jennings, Colston and maybe Dem Thomas - so something like #WR15. Still sick that I dropped this guy once Buffalo didn't land a QB in the draft.

No. Have you watched Mike Williams? The guy's a full grown man. Character issues? No one has more character issues than Terrell Owens, and he was a viable fantasy stud for years. Mike Williams is the real deal.

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And before you "lose all faith" in anyone else, you can start with the FBG staff, who has yet to move McFadden in to dyansty RB1 status, even as recently as October.

1. Who cares where the FBG staff has McFadden ranked? Outside of Bloom, they've been consistently behind the curve for the past five years. What have the rest of them done to make you think we're dealing with some kind of Dynasty gurus here? I haven't looked at their rankings in awhile, but I've also been led to believe they aren't updated with any kind of regularity.
FBG staff finally coming around on McFadden, starting with Bloom who tweeted today: "McFadden has arrived as one of the best, speed, vision, great feel for avoiding low tackles, lowering shoulder, winning collisions"

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Felix Jones showed Sunday night that he cannot pass block. If the quarterback is getting destroyed because of blocking the running game is immediately affected. If Jones is partially to blame for that he won't see the field in the future on any team. Part-time player does not equal fantasy dynasty running back unless you're just looking for depth. I'm not saying he's not a talented runner but you must have more than just straight line speed to be considered a franchise back. Talent only gets you so far.

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And before you "lose all faith" in anyone else, you can start with the FBG staff, who has yet to move McFadden in to dyansty RB1 status, even as recently as October.

1. Who cares where the FBG staff has McFadden ranked? Outside of Bloom, they've been consistently behind the curve for the past five years. What have the rest of them done to make you think we're dealing with some kind of Dynasty gurus here? I haven't looked at their rankings in awhile, but I've also been led to believe they aren't updated with any kind of regularity.
FBG staff finally coming around on McFadden, starting with Bloom who tweeted today: "McFadden has arrived as one of the best, speed, vision, great feel for avoiding low tackles, lowering shoulder, winning collisions"
That one hit in yesterday's game where he really punished the defender at the end of the play was something to behold. We've always known that McFadden had good speed and good hands. But until this year, I don't recall anyone describing McFadden as "physical." That hit reminded me of the way that Adrian Peterson finishes his runs. Edited by jdoggydogg

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And before you "lose all faith" in anyone else, you can start with the FBG staff, who has yet to move McFadden in to dyansty RB1 status, even as recently as October.

1. Who cares where the FBG staff has McFadden ranked? Outside of Bloom, they've been consistently behind the curve for the past five years. What have the rest of them done to make you think we're dealing with some kind of Dynasty gurus here? I haven't looked at their rankings in awhile, but I've also been led to believe they aren't updated with any kind of regularity.
FBG staff finally coming around on McFadden, starting with Bloom who tweeted today: "McFadden has arrived as one of the best, speed, vision, great feel for avoiding low tackles, lowering shoulder, winning collisions"
That one hit in yesterday's game where he really punished the defender at the end of the play was something to behold. We've always known that McFadden had good speed and good hands. But until this year, I don't recall anyone describing MdFadden as "physical." That hit reminded me of the way that Adrian Peterson finishes his runs.
And he's been doing it all year. McFadden has been the total package.

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