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Rice is not only the biggest bust in fantasy football this season, he is the most overrated RB, imho. To compare him with a talent like Charles is absurd; if Charles was allowed to touch the ball as much as Rice does, he'd set some kind of NFL record for combined yardage (and score a lot more TDs).

This is the key, though. Coaches are smart. The fact that Charles isn't allowed to touch the ball as much as Rice does means something.I'm a huge, huge, huge Jamaal Charles fan. He's been ranked in the top 10 of my rankings every single week since I launched my rankings (August 14th), so it's fair to say that I'm one of the "true believers". I think he's an incredible talent, and obviously I'm not worried about the touches. With that said, I still have Rice one spot above him. I think Rice's efficiency metrics this season have been an outlier, but I think his usage metrics this season have been right on the money.

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So... state of the thread since I last checked in. Jonathan Stewart is averaging 107 yards per game over his last 3 and has raised his rushing average on the season to 4.4 ypc (which tops Williams' 4.1 ypc in the same situation). Felix Jones finally topped 20 carries... but he only got 83 yards on them, and his season average has now dipped below 4.0 ypc. Arian Foster and Darren McFadden have continued to make those who questioned their talent look foolish. Lesean McCoy is having the quietest top-5 season by a 22 year old RB in dynasty history (seriously, I'm not saying that I'd take him that high, but why is NOBODY mentioning him as a possible #1 overall in startups next year? He's top 5. He's 22 years old. That was at least enough to get Rice in the conversation last year). MJD has been straight beastin' and reminding everybody that there are more elite backs in the league than just Foster, Johnson, and Peterson. Michael Vick has done a lot to silence anyone who questioned ranking him in the top 10 among dynasty QBs. Pat Bowlen might have demolished any value Orton and Lloyd were busy building. Steve Johnson has shown he's not quite ready for prime time. Vincent Jackson and Sidney Rice has given reminders why we shouldn't drop players' values just because they're going to miss a handful of games in the near future. Dwayne Bowe has followed up one of the best stretches by a WR in fantasy history with one of the worst stretches by a WR in fantasy history. Arrelious Benn finally put in a cameo appearance. Curious what everyone else thinks have been the biggest storylines of the past 3-4 weeks.

Also, a couple of thoughts on a couple of conversations I missed:

First off, to be honest, it's a little bit disconcerting to see Charles as a consensus top-5 dynasty RB right now. It seems like early in the season he was 15th or so in the consensus rankings, and then nobody really talked about him for a couple of months, and now everyone seems to have independently arrived at the opinion that he's a top 5 guy. It's not that I disagree with that opinion (I certainly don't), it's just that it really took me by surprise. He's not a guy who seemed to steadily rise through the year, he seems to have instantly jumped from "RB2" to "stud RB1" while skipping all steps in between. Sometimes the consensus can be weird like that.

Just wanted to point out something to those of you that do dynasty rankings. Tom Brady is still elite.

He's currently ranked 7th by F&L, 11th by SSOG, and 12th by Go Deep.

Yet he's currently the #2 QB in my fantasy league.

2009? Virtual 3 way tie for 6th with Romo and Rivers.

2008? ACL

2007? #1 by a mile.

2006? #7

2005? #2

He's 33 (1.5 years younger than Manning), and there's little reason to doubt his productivity for the next 4+ years.

:blackdot:

A whole lot of people sold him short when Moss got traded.

Absolutely, positively, 100% on the money. I was one of them. I feel like I have a blind spot to Tom Brady- historically, I've taken every opportunity to downgrade him. I've clearly got a cognitive bias against him, to the point where I've actually added a note in my rankings spreadsheet that essentially reads "wherever you've got him ranked, you're probably underrating him".

Your statements are both subjective and hyperbolic - you have no idea how the information in this thread is being used, by whom, or to what extent. Telling someone that thier posts haven't or never will have the impact of another's is simply silly. Do you really think that having Arian Foster at 19 (lower than CJ Spiller) "won leagues"? He was a 24 year old runningback in a top offense whose only competition (for the year) was Steve Slaton. I think 19 was pretty safe. If F&L points out where GD said that people should trade Spiller for Foster, then couldn't others do the same to him, having Foster lower than Spiller in his rankings? After Foster's 42 point game, the line in the sand was clear: long term talent or short term sitiuation? F&L was right and should get credit. But lets not pretend that he being slightly ahead of the curve, "won leagues." There were a lot of threads and posts clamoring about Foster. I am not saying that Go Deep contributes any more or less than F&L.

For the record, I don't think there is anything wrong with F&L calling out Go Deep. I don't even mind the manner in which he did, as we are all adults on the internet and shouldn't have to coddle anybody.

People get way, way, way too hung up on absolute rankings. Absolutely rankings don't mean a thing. They are literally completely and absolutely meaningless. All that matters is RELATIVE rankings- where you have a player ranked relative to his peers, and where you have a player ranked relative to where everyone else has him ranked.

For instance, let's say that I've got Darius Heyward-Bey ranked at 19th in my current rankings (I don't, but we're playing "let's pretend"). Now, let's also say that Darius Heyward-Bey averages 1800 yard and 16 scores over the next 5 seasons. I would say that my current hypothetical ranking of DHB wasn't just a home run, it was a grand slam. Hell, it was more than a grand slam- if there was such a thing as a 6-run homer, it would be that. Sure, DHB might have outperformed my ranking by a mile (and I mean by a literal mile- that's easily 1800+ yards more than I'd expect from the #19 ranked receiver)... but the point is that it doesn't matter, because I guarantee you that I was the DHB owner. If everyone else has a player ranked 60th, and I've got a player ranked 19th, I *GUARANTEE YOU* that that player is on my roster. I've got him ranked so much higher than everyone else that I'm guaranteed to be the beneficiary of any future production he might post.

That's what's going on with F&L and Arian Foster. Has Foster outperformed F&L's ranking? Yeah, by a huge margin... but that doesn't matter. F&L had Arian Foster ranked SUBSTANTIALLY higher than anyone else had him ranked (of people who publish their rankings, I had him the second highest... and I had him at 28th). Most of the FBGs staff had him in the 40s. Anyone who had Foster ranked at 19th could have traded any of the RBs that were in the consensus 20-30 range for him. Those guys would now be riding him to a championship.

At the end of the day, it's not a question of how high you are on a player, it's a question of how many people are higher on that player than you are. In F&L's case, when it came to Arian Foster, the answer is "none". I literally could not find a single person ANYWHERE who was more bullish on Arian Foster than F&L was. So you can keep trotting out that "but you only had him ranked 19th!" line all you want, because at the end of the day, it doesn't mean anything. F&L had Foster ranked higher than anyone else did, and F&L was right. And it wasn't just this preseason- F&L has been right every step of the way. He tweeted after week 1 that he'd trade Frank Gore for Arian Foster straight up, and he got a lot of grief over it (much of that grief came from me, by the way).

Similarly, I like to claim guys like Michael Vick and Darren McFadden as successes for me- not because I ever said "Michael Vick and Darren McFadden are going to be top-10 players in VBD this season", but because I repeatedly said "everyone has both of these guys too low". Vick's a guy I've taken a lot of crap for through the season- I took crap for having him in the top 30 at the beginning of August when everyone was busy anointing Kolb, I took crap for bumping him to 16th when everyone assumed he was going back to the backup role as soon as Kolb was healthy, and I took crap for bumping him into the top 10 when he only had a handful of good games against bad defenses... but at the end of the day, even though he's outperformed all of my wildest expectations, I count Michael Vick as a "hit" because he's on my dynasty team, because I was higher on him than everyone else. That's all that matters. None of my leagues subtract points if you didn't expect a player to be quite as good as he was, so I'm getting the full benefit of Vick's fantasy onslaught even though I "only" had him ranked at the bottom of the top 30 this past offseason.

:goodposting:

If there were an emote for "Excellent Posting" I'd use that.

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People get way, way, way too hung up on absolute rankings. Absolutely rankings don't mean a thing. They are literally completely and absolutely meaningless. All that matters is RELATIVE rankings- where you have a player ranked relative to his peers, and where you have a player ranked relative to where everyone else has him ranked.That's what's going on with F&L and Arian Foster. Has Foster outperformed F&L's ranking? Yeah, by a huge margin... but that doesn't matter. F&L had Arian Foster ranked SUBSTANTIALLY higher than anyone else had him ranked (of people who publish their rankings, I had him the second highest... and I had him at 28th). Most of the FBGs staff had him in the 40s. Anyone who had Foster ranked at 19th could have traded any of the RBs that were in the consensus 20-30 range for him. Those guys would now be riding him to a championship.

Good to have you back. One of my favorite posters, as even when we don't agree, I have to think, which is a good thing.As for the Herm23/F&L comment, I won't go too much into it. I don't want to open that can of worms. I just don't think it is fair to say F&L "won leagues" by having Foster #19, below CJ Spiller and thay GD will never do the same. If we say F&L did, then Go Deep also won leagues by being high on Dewayne Bowe among others, you won leagues by having DMC higher than others, you won leagues by having Vick higher than others, and so on and so on. On the flip side, F&l could have easily cost people championships, if they took CJ over Foster, as his rankings would have suggested. Just trying to keep things realistic.

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Was wondering if it's ok to get a bit selfish in here. Been getting some good stuff on 2 of my RB's (Stewart, Wells) in my main dynasty but was looking for some thoughts on my 3rd, Ryan Matthews.

It's our initial season and I didn't expect too much from my team this year, my draft was very much aimed at next season. Therefore I've not been too disappointed with Matthews rookie year and think after the last two games we're finally starting to see his potential.

How do you see things shaking out for Matthews for next year?

Thanks for some excellent stuff in here.

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Felix Jones finally topped 20 carries... but he only got 83 yards on them, and his season average has now dipped below 4.0 ypc.

I think his added weight has really sapped some of his explosiveness. Sure you can argue that he's managed to stay healthy after bulking up (although not sure if that is the causation) - but he doesn't look like anything special to me anymore.

Michael Vick has done a lot to silence anyone who questioned ranking him in the top 10 among dynasty QBs.

Once again I need to eat a little crow on this one. He has slowed down some after a torrid start and it seems that teams that have the right personnel can bring him down to Earth a little, but one would have to be very biased or pig headed not to think he was a top 10 dynasty QB. His legs have at least three years worth of life in him, and he has improved tremendously as a passer.

Pat Bowlen might have demolished any value Orton and Lloyd were busy building.

It was fairly obvious that both players numbers' were artifically inflated by the sheer volume of the number of pass attempts made under McDaniel. I still think Orton could be a decent QB1 going forward, but Llyod's carriage is about to turn back into the pumpkin it once was. This is my one concern with Foster - what if Kubiak gets canned and the next HC changes up their run blocking schemes. I'm not saying that Foster all of a sudden turns into a pumpkin, but I think he can disappoint those that draft him in the top 5 of a start-up. He is ceratinly talented though and can survive in a power blocking scheme, just don't see him being the No. 1 overall RB w/o the ZBS he's so well suited to perform in.

Curious what everyone else thinks have been the biggest storylines of the past 3-4 weeks.

- The Pittsburgh offense suddenly looks like its stuck in mud. Both Ben and Mendenhall are just not getting it done.

- Randy Moss is now practically worthless. Is it worth even trying to "buy low"?

- While there's probably more "elite" QBs, then ever, has there ever been so many bad starting QBs in the league right now. What do teams like Carolina, Arizona, Miami, Minnesota, Seattle and San Francisco look to do next year?

You've hit on most of them though.

Edited by Dr. Octopus

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Good to have you back. One of my favorite posters, as even when we don't agree, I have to think, which is a good thing.As for the Herm23/F&L comment, I won't go too much into it. I don't want to open that can of worms. I just don't think it is fair to say F&L "won leagues" by having Foster #19, below CJ Spiller and thay GD will never do the same. If we say F&L did, then Go Deep also won leagues by being high on Dewayne Bowe among others, you won leagues by having DMC higher than others, you won leagues by having Vick higher than others, and so on and so on. On the flip side, F&l could have easily cost people championships, if they took CJ over Foster, as his rankings would have suggested. Just trying to keep things realistic.

Holy false dilemma, Batman! Nobody was ever sitting on the clock and thinking "man, should I draft Chris Johnson or Arian Foster?". That was never a legitimate choice. Drafting Chris Johnson did not preclude getting Arian Foster, because Arian Foster was never once drafted within 3 rounds of Chris Johnson last offseason.It'd be like if someone said "no matter what you do, be sure you draft Arian Foster in the 3rd round this year!" back when he had a 10th round ADP, and now you're coming into this thread and saying "that was a terrible call, you should have drafted him in the 1st, instead!"

I think his added weight has really sapped some of his explosiveness. Sure you can argue that he's managed to stay healthy after bulking up (although not sure if that is the causation) - but he doesn't look like anything special to me anymore.

Completely agreed. I don't know why Felix felt the need to bulk up. He was an incredibly valuable player last year, giving huge return on 8-10 carries a game. Now he's a nobody, a fungible asset, giving replacement-level return. Who cares if that replacement-level return is on a larger number of carries? Replacement-level production by definition isn't valuable.I don't hate Felix the NFL player, I only hate Felix the fantasy player. If I were running the Cowboys, I'd slim him back down and go back to what they were doing last season again.

It was fairly obvious that both players numbers' were artifically inflated by the sheer volume of the number of pass attempts made under McDaniel. I still think Orton could be a decent QB1 going forward, but Llyod's carriage is about to turn back into the pumpkin it once was. This is my one concern with Foster - what if Kubiak gets canned and the next HC changes up their run blocking schemes. I'm not saying that Foster all of a sudden turns into a pumpkin, but I think he can disappoint those that draft him in the top 5 of a start-up. He is ceratinly talented though and can survive in a power blocking scheme, just don't see him being the No. 1 overall RB w/o the ZBS he's so well suited to perform in.

They weren't being artificially inflated, though. Prior to his complete and utter collapse the last two weeks, Orton was 6th in the NFL in YPA (3rd among players with 200+ attempts). Yes, he was getting a lot of attempts, but he was being incredibly efficient and effective with them, too. Lloyd's getting a lot of targets, but it's hardly a Herculean total or anything, and he's been unbelievably efficient with his targets, too (he ranks 6th in DVOA and 1st in DYAR and has better stats across the board than Andre Johnson on fewer targets). They were not simply compiling counting stats, they were earning every attempt and every target.

- The Pittsburgh offense suddenly looks like its stuck in mud. Both Ben and Mendenhall are just not getting it done. - Randy Moss is now practically worthless. Is it worth even trying to "buy low"?- While there's probably more "elite" QBs, then ever, has there ever been so many bad starting QBs in the league right now. What do teams like Carolina, Arizona, Miami, Minnesota, Seattle and San Francisco look to do next year? You've hit on most of them though.

Nothing's wrong with Roethlisberger, imo. He's finished 8th, 8th, 18th, and 1st in DYAR over the past four weeks. Pittsburgh's defense is averaging 9 points per game allowed over the last month, while the offense is averaging 22.5 points per game. Outside of the overtime win against Buffalo, they haven't had a bad game in the last month. I don't think there's anything meaningfully predictive there, they've just had a few drives that normally might have been TDs that were instead FGs. I still think Pitt and NE are the class of the NFL right now.Moss is a good one. It's incredible what's happened to his value this season. I'm really, really glad I got off that train while the getting was good.Yeah, there have definitely been this many bad starting QBs before, it just doesn't seem like it because the QBs that are this bad are quickly forgotten. For instance, to pick a season completely at random, here is a list of some QBs that got more than 150 pass attempts back in 2005: Gus Frerotte, David Carr, Kyle Orton (epically bad rookie edition), Trent Dilfer, Joey Harrington, Chris Simms, Kyle Boller, Josh McCown, Brooks Bollinger, Anthony Wright, Kelly Holcomb, J.P. Losman, Daunte Culpepper, Mike McMahon, Jamie Martin, and Charlie Frye. That's 16 names.

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A.foster was drafted in the 3rd round of one of my leagues this year. redraft. PPR. Was shocked as I thought I was high on him and planned on the 4th or 5th round for him!

Foster's ADP went way up in late August.

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So... state of the thread since I last checked in. Jonathan Stewart is averaging 107 yards per game over his last 3 and has raised his rushing average on the season to 4.4 ypc (which tops Williams' 4.1 ypc in the same situation). Felix Jones finally topped 20 carries... but he only got 83 yards on them, and his season average has now dipped below 4.0 ypc. Arian Foster and Darren McFadden have continued to make those who questioned their talent look foolish. Lesean McCoy is having the quietest top-5 season by a 22 year old RB in dynasty history (seriously, I'm not saying that I'd take him that high, but why is NOBODY mentioning him as a possible #1 overall in startups next year? He's top 5. He's 22 years old. That was at least enough to get Rice in the conversation last year). MJD has been straight beastin' and reminding everybody that there are more elite backs in the league than just Foster, Johnson, and Peterson. Michael Vick has done a lot to silence anyone who questioned ranking him in the top 10 among dynasty QBs. Pat Bowlen might have demolished any value Orton and Lloyd were busy building. Steve Johnson has shown he's not quite ready for prime time. Vincent Jackson and Sidney Rice has given reminders why we shouldn't drop players' values just because they're going to miss a handful of games in the near future. Dwayne Bowe has followed up one of the best stretches by a WR in fantasy history with one of the worst stretches by a WR in fantasy history. Arrelious Benn finally put in a cameo appearance. Curious what everyone else thinks have been the biggest storylines of the past 3-4 weeks.

Also, a couple of thoughts on a couple of conversations I missed:

First off, to be honest, it's a little bit disconcerting to see Charles as a consensus top-5 dynasty RB right now. It seems like early in the season he was 15th or so in the consensus rankings, and then nobody really talked about him for a couple of months, and now everyone seems to have independently arrived at the opinion that he's a top 5 guy. It's not that I disagree with that opinion (I certainly don't), it's just that it really took me by surprise. He's not a guy who seemed to steadily rise through the year, he seems to have instantly jumped from "RB2" to "stud RB1" while skipping all steps in between. Sometimes the consensus can be weird like that.

Just wanted to point out something to those of you that do dynasty rankings. Tom Brady is still elite.

He's currently ranked 7th by F&L, 11th by SSOG, and 12th by Go Deep.

Yet he's currently the #2 QB in my fantasy league.

2009? Virtual 3 way tie for 6th with Romo and Rivers.

2008? ACL

2007? #1 by a mile.

2006? #7

2005? #2

He's 33 (1.5 years younger than Manning), and there's little reason to doubt his productivity for the next 4+ years.

;)

A whole lot of people sold him short when Moss got traded.

Absolutely, positively, 100% on the money. I was one of them. I feel like I have a blind spot to Tom Brady- historically, I've taken every opportunity to downgrade him. I've clearly got a cognitive bias against him, to the point where I've actually added a note in my rankings spreadsheet that essentially reads "wherever you've got him ranked, you're probably underrating him".

Your statements are both subjective and hyperbolic - you have no idea how the information in this thread is being used, by whom, or to what extent. Telling someone that thier posts haven't or never will have the impact of another's is simply silly. Do you really think that having Arian Foster at 19 (lower than CJ Spiller) "won leagues"? He was a 24 year old runningback in a top offense whose only competition (for the year) was Steve Slaton. I think 19 was pretty safe. If F&L points out where GD said that people should trade Spiller for Foster, then couldn't others do the same to him, having Foster lower than Spiller in his rankings? After Foster's 42 point game, the line in the sand was clear: long term talent or short term sitiuation? F&L was right and should get credit. But lets not pretend that he being slightly ahead of the curve, "won leagues." There were a lot of threads and posts clamoring about Foster. I am not saying that Go Deep contributes any more or less than F&L.

For the record, I don't think there is anything wrong with F&L calling out Go Deep. I don't even mind the manner in which he did, as we are all adults on the internet and shouldn't have to coddle anybody.

People get way, way, way too hung up on absolute rankings. Absolutely rankings don't mean a thing. They are literally completely and absolutely meaningless. All that matters is RELATIVE rankings- where you have a player ranked relative to his peers, and where you have a player ranked relative to where everyone else has him ranked.

For instance, let's say that I've got Darius Heyward-Bey ranked at 19th in my current rankings (I don't, but we're playing "let's pretend"). Now, let's also say that Darius Heyward-Bey averages 1800 yard and 16 scores over the next 5 seasons. I would say that my current hypothetical ranking of DHB wasn't just a home run, it was a grand slam. Hell, it was more than a grand slam- if there was such a thing as a 6-run homer, it would be that. Sure, DHB might have outperformed my ranking by a mile (and I mean by a literal mile- that's easily 1800+ yards more than I'd expect from the #19 ranked receiver)... but the point is that it doesn't matter, because I guarantee you that I was the DHB owner. If everyone else has a player ranked 60th, and I've got a player ranked 19th, I *GUARANTEE YOU* that that player is on my roster. I've got him ranked so much higher than everyone else that I'm guaranteed to be the beneficiary of any future production he might post.

That's what's going on with F&L and Arian Foster. Has Foster outperformed F&L's ranking? Yeah, by a huge margin... but that doesn't matter. F&L had Arian Foster ranked SUBSTANTIALLY higher than anyone else had him ranked (of people who publish their rankings, I had him the second highest... and I had him at 28th). Most of the FBGs staff had him in the 40s. Anyone who had Foster ranked at 19th could have traded any of the RBs that were in the consensus 20-30 range for him. Those guys would now be riding him to a championship.

At the end of the day, it's not a question of how high you are on a player, it's a question of how many people are higher on that player than you are. In F&L's case, when it came to Arian Foster, the answer is "none". I literally could not find a single person ANYWHERE who was more bullish on Arian Foster than F&L was. So you can keep trotting out that "but you only had him ranked 19th!" line all you want, because at the end of the day, it doesn't mean anything. F&L had Foster ranked higher than anyone else did, and F&L was right. And it wasn't just this preseason- F&L has been right every step of the way. He tweeted after week 1 that he'd trade Frank Gore for Arian Foster straight up, and he got a lot of grief over it (much of that grief came from me, by the way).

Similarly, I like to claim guys like Michael Vick and Darren McFadden as successes for me- not because I ever said "Michael Vick and Darren McFadden are going to be top-10 players in VBD this season", but because I repeatedly said "everyone has both of these guys too low". Vick's a guy I've taken a lot of crap for through the season- I took crap for having him in the top 30 at the beginning of August when everyone was busy anointing Kolb, I took crap for bumping him to 16th when everyone assumed he was going back to the backup role as soon as Kolb was healthy, and I took crap for bumping him into the top 10 when he only had a handful of good games against bad defenses... but at the end of the day, even though he's outperformed all of my wildest expectations, I count Michael Vick as a "hit" because he's on my dynasty team, because I was higher on him than everyone else. That's all that matters. None of my leagues subtract points if you didn't expect a player to be quite as good as he was, so I'm getting the full benefit of Vick's fantasy onslaught even though I "only" had him ranked at the bottom of the top 30 this past offseason.

My buddy Dalton Del Don from Rotowire had Arian Foster pegged as a 2nd rounder preseason.

http://www.rotoscoop.com/2010/08/

Arian Foster, RB, HOU – Foster ran for 110 yards on 18 carries with a touchdown and also added four receptions for 16 yards during Houston’s win Saturday against a good Dallas defense. Steve Slaton suffered a turf toe injury during the game as well. I’ve written about Foster enough, so I’ll keep this brief – he should be a second round fantasy pick.

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Good to have you back. One of my favorite posters, as even when we don't agree, I have to think, which is a good thing.As for the Herm23/F&L comment, I won't go too much into it. I don't want to open that can of worms. I just don't think it is fair to say F&L "won leagues" by having Foster #19, below CJ Spiller and thay GD will never do the same. If we say F&L did, then Go Deep also won leagues by being high on Dewayne Bowe among others, you won leagues by having DMC higher than others, you won leagues by having Vick higher than others, and so on and so on. On the flip side, F&l could have easily cost people championships, if they took CJ over Foster, as his rankings would have suggested. Just trying to keep things realistic.

Holy false dilemma, Batman! Nobody was ever sitting on the clock and thinking "man, should I draft Chris Johnson or Arian Foster?". That was never a legitimate choice. Drafting Chris Johnson did not preclude getting Arian Foster, because Arian Foster was never once drafted within 3 rounds of Chris Johnson last offseason.
He didn't say Chris Johnson. He said Cliff Spiller, Jr. If you drafted Cliff ahead of Foster in a startup draft your season has been full of :shrug::X:doh: instead of :popcorn:It's a legitimate point. Rankings should be done from the gut and not for politics. Which is what I account that ranking disparity to, mostly, given who was giving it and who is involved. Edited by thriftyrocker

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I believe when Coop refers to "CJ" in the whole rankings deal, he is referring to CJ Spiller. Just to clarify

That said, I am 100% on the side that having a guy way higher than anyone else, but still not high enough, counts as a hit. My case is Roddy White, as I've had him #1 going on 3 seasons now, even through the Fitz-Warner incredible playoff aftermath.

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Good to have you back. One of my favorite posters, as even when we don't agree, I have to think, which is a good thing.As for the Herm23/F&L comment, I won't go too much into it. I don't want to open that can of worms. I just don't think it is fair to say F&L "won leagues" by having Foster #19, below CJ Spiller and thay GD will never do the same. If we say F&L did, then Go Deep also won leagues by being high on Dewayne Bowe among others, you won leagues by having DMC higher than others, you won leagues by having Vick higher than others, and so on and so on. On the flip side, F&l could have easily cost people championships, if they took CJ over Foster, as his rankings would have suggested. Just trying to keep things realistic.

Holy false dilemma, Batman! Nobody was ever sitting on the clock and thinking "man, should I draft Chris Johnson or Arian Foster?". That was never a legitimate choice. Drafting Chris Johnson did not preclude getting Arian Foster, because Arian Foster was never once drafted within 3 rounds of Chris Johnson last offseason.
He didn't say Chris Johnson. He said Cliff Spiller, Jr. If you drafted Cliff ahead of Foster this preseason your season has been full of :shrug::X:doh: instead of :popcorn:It's a legitimate point. Rankings should be done from the gut and not for politics. Which is what I account that ranking disparity to, mostly, given who was giving it and who is involved.
Holy misreading, Batman!

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Good to have you back. One of my favorite posters, as even when we don't agree, I have to think, which is a good thing.As for the Herm23/F&L comment, I won't go too much into it. I don't want to open that can of worms. I just don't think it is fair to say F&L "won leagues" by having Foster #19, below CJ Spiller and thay GD will never do the same. If we say F&L did, then Go Deep also won leagues by being high on Dewayne Bowe among others, you won leagues by having DMC higher than others, you won leagues by having Vick higher than others, and so on and so on. On the flip side, F&l could have easily cost people championships, if they took CJ over Foster, as his rankings would have suggested. Just trying to keep things realistic.

Holy false dilemma, Batman! Nobody was ever sitting on the clock and thinking "man, should I draft Chris Johnson or Arian Foster?". That was never a legitimate choice. Drafting Chris Johnson did not preclude getting Arian Foster, because Arian Foster was never once drafted within 3 rounds of Chris Johnson last offseason.
He didn't say Chris Johnson. He said Cliff Spiller, Jr. If you drafted Cliff ahead of Foster this preseason your season has been full of :wolf::X :X instead of :unsure:It's a legitimate point. Rankings should be done from the gut and not for politics. Which is what I account that ranking disparity to, mostly, given who was giving it and who is involved.
Holy misreading, Batman!
Look, not to be all "board police" or anything, but two other guys addressed it already, WITH posts that added information. Maybe you didn't need to say anything?And yes, I know I didn't need to post this either, but I thought this actually might add the chance that future unnecessary junk like this is saved. Just maybe.

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Good to have you back. One of my favorite posters, as even when we don't agree, I have to think, which is a good thing.As for the Herm23/F&L comment, I won't go too much into it. I don't want to open that can of worms. I just don't think it is fair to say F&L "won leagues" by having Foster #19, below CJ Spiller and thay GD will never do the same. If we say F&L did, then Go Deep also won leagues by being high on Dewayne Bowe among others, you won leagues by having DMC higher than others, you won leagues by having Vick higher than others, and so on and so on. On the flip side, F&l could have easily cost people championships, if they took CJ over Foster, as his rankings would have suggested. Just trying to keep things realistic.

Holy false dilemma, Batman! Nobody was ever sitting on the clock and thinking "man, should I draft Chris Johnson or Arian Foster?". That was never a legitimate choice. Drafting Chris Johnson did not preclude getting Arian Foster, because Arian Foster was never once drafted within 3 rounds of Chris Johnson last offseason.
He didn't say Chris Johnson. He said Cliff Spiller, Jr. If you drafted Cliff ahead of Foster this preseason your season has been full of :lmao::doh::doh: instead of :2cents: It's a legitimate point. Rankings should be done from the gut and not for politics. Which is what I account that ranking disparity to, mostly, given who was giving it and who is involved.
Holy misreading, Batman!
Look, not to be all "board police" or anything, but two other guys addressed it already, WITH posts that added information. Maybe you didn't need to say anything?And yes, I know I didn't need to post this either, but I thought this actually might add the chance that future unnecessary junk like this is saved. Just maybe.
I think he was just having a little fun with SSOG's batman comment. Also, i agree that if someone has a player at 20, and everyone else has him in the 35-40 range, and that player finished as a top 10 player, the guy who had him at 20 was "right". I dont think you can call someone out for suggesting trading Foster for Spiller in the beginiong of the year when you had Spiller ranked ahead of Foster yourself though.Either way, its hard to say who is right or wrong after one season. At least when it comes to dynasty rankings. After their rookie seasons, Matt Forte, Steve Slaton, Kevin Smith and Felix Jones were all ranked higher than Ray Rice, Jamaal Charles, Rashard Mendenhall and Darren Mcfadden. CJ Spllier could be considered a top 5 dynasty RB after next season and Foster could find himself out of the top 20. Point being its too early for anyone to be right or wrong on anyone at this point.

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I think he was just having a little fun with SSOG's batman comment.

Yes, I was. But not everyone appreciates my sense of humor.

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Holy false dilemma, Batman! Nobody was ever sitting on the clock and thinking "man, should I draft Chris Johnson or Arian Foster?". That was never a legitimate choice. Drafting Chris Johnson did not preclude getting Arian Foster, because Arian Foster was never once drafted within 3 rounds of Chris Johnson last offseason.It'd be like if someone said "no matter what you do, be sure you draft Arian Foster in the 3rd round this year!" back when he had a 10th round ADP, and now you're coming into this thread and saying "that was a terrible call, you should have drafted him in the 1st, instead!"

CJ Spiller.And rankings are all relative to other players, which is why you put numbers next to them. Edited by Concept Coop

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I haven't seen much talk on this board regarding Leggarrate Blount. I've been a huge fan the entire year (yes, unfortunately i picked him up in like week 2 for all my teams, lol), but am having issues deciding what his value is in regards to other RBs and WRs. I need to decide whether I keep him or not as part of my 6 keepers at no cost for next year. I'll avoid making this an assistant coaching post, god forbid i have to deal with the AC police :hifive:

The big problem I have with Blount is his coach. Did you see Norv Turner with Tolbert the other night? He gave him the ball for like 6 straight possessions inside the 10 yard line. Raheem Morris is the exact opposite. You have a 250 lb monster of a back, and the guy doesn't hand the ball off to Blount on the goal line. Instead he is running trick plays where his fullback is tossing TDs, lol. The last game i watched, on 2 different 3rd and 1s, this idiot calls a pass play, the first time for like 50 yards and the second for like 15 yards. I mean, c'mon. Of course they failed both and had to punt. They had the ball on a new set of downs inside the 10 and Blount wasn't even in the game (before half), the next time they had the ball on the 2 yard line give it to Blount 1 time and then start throwing. Sorry, long way of saying that i think Morris calls some really stupid plays. If you have the ball on the 5 yard line and in with 4 plays, here is how you get 98% of a TD --give the ball to Blount 4 times.

Anyway, where would you guys rate Blount? I personally rate him very highly. I would put him in the 15 RB range, higher than a RB like Forte and close to Deangelo. I don't think most agree. Compared to WRs, I'd place him in the Crabtree area, althoug in dynasty i like high talent WRs more, so I would probably rate Crabtree higher. any opinions?

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I haven't seen much talk on this board regarding Leggarrate Blount. I've been a huge fan the entire year (yes, unfortunately i picked him up in like week 2 for all my teams, lol), but am having issues deciding what his value is in regards to other RBs and WRs. I need to decide whether I keep him or not as part of my 6 keepers at no cost for next year. I'll avoid making this an assistant coaching post, god forbid i have to deal with the AC police :thumbup: The big problem I have with Blount is his coach. Did you see Norv Turner with Tolbert the other night? He gave him the ball for like 6 straight possessions inside the 10 yard line. Raheem Morris is the exact opposite. You have a 250 lb monster of a back, and the guy doesn't hand the ball off to Blount on the goal line. Instead he is running trick plays where his fullback is tossing TDs, lol. The last game i watched, on 2 different 3rd and 1s, this idiot calls a pass play, the first time for like 50 yards and the second for like 15 yards. I mean, c'mon. Of course they failed both and had to punt. They had the ball on a new set of downs inside the 10 and Blount wasn't even in the game (before half), the next time they had the ball on the 2 yard line give it to Blount 1 time and then start throwing. Sorry, long way of saying that i think Morris calls some really stupid plays. If you have the ball on the 5 yard line and in with 4 plays, here is how you get 98% of a TD --give the ball to Blount 4 times.Anyway, where would you guys rate Blount? I personally rate him very highly. I would put him in the 15 RB range, higher than a RB like Forte and close to Deangelo. I don't think most agree. Compared to WRs, I'd place him in the Crabtree area, althoug in dynasty i like high talent WRs more, so I would probably rate Crabtree higher. any opinions?

I noticed the same thing - Williams is in a lot around the goal-line and the only runs you see are draws out of a shotgun formation down there - talk about little faith in just powering it in with your tank of a running back...I've watched all the TB games this year and don't see Blount as a long-term answer. He may have a similar role in 2011 (which is the basis of your question - keeping him for next year), but he is very limited in the passing game (do they call pass plays on even 40% of the downs when he is in??). My personal rankings are PPR based, so Blount is down at #25 on the RB list. If the goal line situation were different (aka he got plenty of carries with a decent success rate when they were down there) I could see him a few spots higher on my list. I see Tampa going to the air more in 2011 with Freeman, Williams, Benn and Winslow becoming more potent as a group. Blount will get less carries outside of preserving a lead/run the clock in the second half than in 2010 in my opinion.

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I haven't seen much talk on this board regarding Leggarrate Blount. I've been a huge fan the entire year (yes, unfortunately i picked him up in like week 2 for all my teams, lol), but am having issues deciding what his value is in regards to other RBs and WRs. I need to decide whether I keep him or not as part of my 6 keepers at no cost for next year. I'll avoid making this an assistant coaching post, god forbid i have to deal with the AC police :thumbup: The big problem I have with Blount is his coach. Did you see Norv Turner with Tolbert the other night? He gave him the ball for like 6 straight possessions inside the 10 yard line. Raheem Morris is the exact opposite. You have a 250 lb monster of a back, and the guy doesn't hand the ball off to Blount on the goal line. Instead he is running trick plays where his fullback is tossing TDs, lol. The last game i watched, on 2 different 3rd and 1s, this idiot calls a pass play, the first time for like 50 yards and the second for like 15 yards. I mean, c'mon. Of course they failed both and had to punt. They had the ball on a new set of downs inside the 10 and Blount wasn't even in the game (before half), the next time they had the ball on the 2 yard line give it to Blount 1 time and then start throwing. Sorry, long way of saying that i think Morris calls some really stupid plays. If you have the ball on the 5 yard line and in with 4 plays, here is how you get 98% of a TD --give the ball to Blount 4 times.Anyway, where would you guys rate Blount? I personally rate him very highly. I would put him in the 15 RB range, higher than a RB like Forte and close to Deangelo. I don't think most agree. Compared to WRs, I'd place him in the Crabtree area, althoug in dynasty i like high talent WRs more, so I would probably rate Crabtree higher. any opinions?

Ive got him in the 30's, along with guys like Chris Ivory, Ronnie Brown and BJGE. He has looked OK, but i dont think he has done anything to warrant being a top 20 back yet. He may end up being a top 20 guy, but he has alot to prove before getting there. The fact that Morris isnt giving him the ball as much as you think he deserves it might be due to something he sees in Blount that you and I do not. Its not like he was a first round pick, he went undrafted, and was cut by the Titans earlier in the season. There is a chance Blount ends up being the Bucs RB of the future, i just dont think it is very likely at this point.

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I haven't seen much talk on this board regarding Leggarrate Blount. I've been a huge fan the entire year (yes, unfortunately i picked him up in like week 2 for all my teams, lol), but am having issues deciding what his value is in regards to other RBs and WRs. I need to decide whether I keep him or not as part of my 6 keepers at no cost for next year. I'll avoid making this an assistant coaching post, god forbid i have to deal with the AC police :rolleyes:

The big problem I have with Blount is his coach. Did you see Norv Turner with Tolbert the other night? He gave him the ball for like 6 straight possessions inside the 10 yard line. Raheem Morris is the exact opposite. You have a 250 lb monster of a back, and the guy doesn't hand the ball off to Blount on the goal line. Instead he is running trick plays where his fullback is tossing TDs, lol. The last game i watched, on 2 different 3rd and 1s, this idiot calls a pass play, the first time for like 50 yards and the second for like 15 yards. I mean, c'mon. Of course they failed both and had to punt. They had the ball on a new set of downs inside the 10 and Blount wasn't even in the game (before half), the next time they had the ball on the 2 yard line give it to Blount 1 time and then start throwing. Sorry, long way of saying that i think Morris calls some really stupid plays. If you have the ball on the 5 yard line and in with 4 plays, here is how you get 98% of a TD --give the ball to Blount 4 times.

Anyway, where would you guys rate Blount? I personally rate him very highly. I would put him in the 15 RB range, higher than a RB like Forte and close to Deangelo. I don't think most agree. Compared to WRs, I'd place him in the Crabtree area, althoug in dynasty i like high talent WRs more, so I would probably rate Crabtree higher. any opinions?

Blount has been very mediocre on short yardage/goal-line plays. It's easy to assume that because he's such a big body he should be great in short-yardage, but he seems to have trouble finding the hole and he takes a long time to get up to speed.

I agree with those that think Blount is not the long-term answer for Tampa Bay. I just don't think he's versatile enough, or special enough at the things he is good at. I picked him up early this season when I thought he was flying under the radar, then sold a couple of weeks ago. I haven't regretted it at all. I'd put him in the late twenties or low thirties for dynasty backs (.5 PPR).

Edited by Redmen62

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I haven't seen much talk on this board regarding Leggarrate Blount. I've been a huge fan the entire year (yes, unfortunately i picked him up in like week 2 for all my teams, lol), but am having issues deciding what his value is in regards to other RBs and WRs. I need to decide whether I keep him or not as part of my 6 keepers at no cost for next year. I'll avoid making this an assistant coaching post, god forbid i have to deal with the AC police :lmao: The big problem I have with Blount is his coach. Did you see Norv Turner with Tolbert the other night? He gave him the ball for like 6 straight possessions inside the 10 yard line. Raheem Morris is the exact opposite. You have a 250 lb monster of a back, and the guy doesn't hand the ball off to Blount on the goal line. Instead he is running trick plays where his fullback is tossing TDs, lol. The last game i watched, on 2 different 3rd and 1s, this idiot calls a pass play, the first time for like 50 yards and the second for like 15 yards. I mean, c'mon. Of course they failed both and had to punt. They had the ball on a new set of downs inside the 10 and Blount wasn't even in the game (before half), the next time they had the ball on the 2 yard line give it to Blount 1 time and then start throwing. Sorry, long way of saying that i think Morris calls some really stupid plays. If you have the ball on the 5 yard line and in with 4 plays, here is how you get 98% of a TD --give the ball to Blount 4 times.Anyway, where would you guys rate Blount? I personally rate him very highly. I would put him in the 15 RB range, higher than a RB like Forte and close to Deangelo. I don't think most agree. Compared to WRs, I'd place him in the Crabtree area, althoug in dynasty i like high talent WRs more, so I would probably rate Crabtree higher. any opinions?

Haven't seen enough of Blount to make a call on him myself. However, I did hear a radio interview this week with Lions coach Jim Schwartz. The interviewer pointed out that Schwartz had coached him at the senior bowl before asking him why they didn't acquire him. There was some typical coach speak, but the gist of what he was saying was Blount just isn't a very talented back. I found Schwartz to be surprisingly frank in the interview. In essence he was saying if you give enough carries to an even modestly talented back, they can put up some numbers. One thing that I always look at is explosive plays. Coaches love them. Blount has 4 plays out of 151 that went for 20 or more yards (21,24,28,48). (2.6%) The player you chose to rate lower in Forte has 8 such plays on 224 touches or 3.67%. (89,68,22,21,61,20,30,28). That doesn't necessarily damn him, but he'd better be exceptional at every other aspect if he wants to continue to get carries in future years.

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Any thought on Joe McKnight going forward?

Every so often Rex Ryan heaps praise on the kid. He hasn't been playing, but I think he has clear talent (moves, speed); the issue with him is maturity in terms of work ethic and pass blocking. Tomlinson has been slowing down late in the year and is only under contract for one more season, and Shonn Greene has been solid but unspectacular.

Going into the offseason, I think McKnight could be a cheap add in dynasty leagues that could pay dividends--maybe not next year as Greene and Tomlinson both figure to return, but maybe the year after that. Of course if it becomes clear that McKnight will play in 2012, his value will rise significantly next year. Wondering what others on the board think about him.

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He didn't say Chris Johnson. He said Cliff Spiller, Jr. If you drafted Cliff ahead of Foster in a startup draft your season has been full of :thumbup: :thumbup: :doh: instead of :goodposting:It's a legitimate point. Rankings should be done from the gut and not for politics. Which is what I account that ranking disparity to, mostly, given who was giving it and who is involved.

I believe when Coop refers to "CJ" in the whole rankings deal, he is referring to CJ Spiller. Just to clarify

Thanks. It's still a false dilemma, though. I looked at a lot of dynasty rankings last August while I was compiling mine. I don't want to say that I read every single set of free rankings on the internet... but I don't think I was too far off. It's impossible now to go back and verify who had whom ranked where because nobody other than us offers ranking history (which is a huge, huge, huge oversight in my book- ranking history is vital for performing any analysis like the one we're trying to do right now), but I definitely recall that only one person had Arian Foster in his top 20 in August. I can't even recall anyone else who had Foster in their top 30 at that point. Even if someone following F&L's rankings took Spiller over Foster, Foster would still be around several rounds absolutely screaming value before any of the other rankings would start advocating drafting him. If I recall correctly, there wasn't a single FBGs staffer that had him even as high as their top 40. This isn't a case where we're giving F&L props because he had Foster a couple of slots higher than everyone else, we're giving him props for having Foster several rounds ahead of anyone else. And he was also way ahead of the curve after Foster's huge week 1, too- like I said, he was on twitter telling people to trade Frank Gore for Arian Foster straight up. That was back when everyone else was still convinced he was a talentless system back, while Gore was a top 5 dynasty RB.Again, this is exactly like if someone said "hey, you should draft this guy with an 8th round ADP in the 4th round at the absolute latest!" and then people were getting on his case because he wasn't advocating taking him in the 1st round.I don't think that F&L walks on water or anything. I've had plenty of disagreements with him in the past, although it's true that we've tended to see eye to eye more often than not. Still, he's certainly had his share of misses. It's just that anyone who wants to suggest for the barest fraction of a millisecond that Arian Foster in any way, shape, or form belongs within 50 feet of his "misses" pile is way, way out of line. Arian Foster was a home freaking run. Period, full stop.

Yes, I was. But not everyone appreciates my sense of humor.

For what it's worth, I chuckled.

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Ive got him in the 30's, along with guys like Chris Ivory, Ronnie Brown and BJGE. He has looked OK, but i dont think he has done anything to warrant being a top 20 back yet. He may end up being a top 20 guy, but he has alot to prove before getting there. The fact that Morris isnt giving him the ball as much as you think he deserves it might be due to something he sees in Blount that you and I do not. Its not like he was a first round pick, he went undrafted, and was cut by the Titans earlier in the season. There is a chance Blount ends up being the Bucs RB of the future, i just dont think it is very likely at this point.

Wait, you really have Chris Ivory in the 30s? He screams "easily replaced" and "short-term roster filler" to me. I haven't seen anything from him to suggest that he should ever get significant carries, except on a team with massive RB injuries. What do you see that leads to a different view?

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Ive got him in the 30's, along with guys like Chris Ivory, Ronnie Brown and BJGE. He has looked OK, but i dont think he has done anything to warrant being a top 20 back yet. He may end up being a top 20 guy, but he has alot to prove before getting there. The fact that Morris isnt giving him the ball as much as you think he deserves it might be due to something he sees in Blount that you and I do not. Its not like he was a first round pick, he went undrafted, and was cut by the Titans earlier in the season. There is a chance Blount ends up being the Bucs RB of the future, i just dont think it is very likely at this point.

Wait, you really have Chris Ivory in the 30s? He screams "easily replaced" and "short-term roster filler" to me. I haven't seen anything from him to suggest that he should ever get significant carries, except on a team with massive RB injuries. What do you see that leads to a different view?
I don't think he necessarily has a different view- being ranked in the 30's for a RB isn't very high.

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Ive got him in the 30's, along with guys like Chris Ivory, Ronnie Brown and BJGE. He has looked OK, but i dont think he has done anything to warrant being a top 20 back yet. He may end up being a top 20 guy, but he has alot to prove before getting there. The fact that Morris isnt giving him the ball as much as you think he deserves it might be due to something he sees in Blount that you and I do not. Its not like he was a first round pick, he went undrafted, and was cut by the Titans earlier in the season. There is a chance Blount ends up being the Bucs RB of the future, i just dont think it is very likely at this point.

Wait, you really have Chris Ivory in the 30s? He screams "easily replaced" and "short-term roster filler" to me. I haven't seen anything from him to suggest that he should ever get significant carries, except on a team with massive RB injuries. What do you see that leads to a different view?
I don't think he necessarily has a different view- being ranked in the 30's for a RB isn't very high.
Exactly, being ranked in the 30's isnt really a positive for RB's. Its filled with young guys with less than ideal talent(Blount, Ivory) or older guys who are on their last legs(FJackson, Tomlinson). I have Blount 1 point higher than Ivory, but their situations are similar. They are both average talents(at best) and are likely only seeing playing time due to the lack of better options.

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Is Robert Meachem worthless now? It seems like he is what he is - one of many targets, he'll have a few good games but no consistency. I thought he had a legit chance at becowing the 1b there but it just hasn't happened. I like his talent but am considering selling in the offseason for whatever I can get. Any thoughts on him?

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Is Robert Meachem worthless now? It seems like he is what he is - one of many targets, he'll have a few good games but no consistency. I thought he had a legit chance at becowing the 1b there but it just hasn't happened. I like his talent but am considering selling in the offseason for whatever I can get. Any thoughts on him?

I think you've got it summed up pretty well. In a smaller dynasty league, I'd cut bait. Just tired of it. And I really, really, really hate Sean Payton, so anything I can do to be less inclined to watch Saints games, I'm doing it.

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Is Rashard Mendenhall the new Matt Forte? Well, with one big difference, RM cant catch.

Mendenhall is putting up good FF numbers this season, but is doing so because of a huge workload. He has never really impressed me, but he has looked extraordinarily ordinary this season. I think the Steelers are in need of a quicker, more versatile back next season to share the load with Mendenhall. Im particularly interested in what Pittsburgh homers think, but would like to get thoughts fom anyone who has an opinion.

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From SSOG's QB rankings. How bad do you have to be to be ranked below Jake Delhomme? :thumbup:

54 Jake Delhomme CLE 35.6 1.00 09/27/2010 8

55 Luke McCown JAX 29.1 1.00 11/23/2010 8

56 Byron Leftwich PIT 30.6 1.00 09/27/2010 8

57 Trent Edwards BUF 26.8 1.00 09/27/2010 8

58 Dan LeFevour CIN 23.5 1.00 10/21/2010 8

59 Chad Pennington MIA 34.2 1.00 10/21/2010 8

60 David Carr SF 31.1 1.00 10/21/2010 8

61 Tony Pike CAR 24.5 1.00 10/21/2010 8

62 Billy Volek SD 34.3 1.00 10/21/2010 8

63 Kerry Collins TEN 37.7 1.00 10/21/2010 8

64 Brian Hoyer NE 24.9 1.00 10/21/2010 8

65 Dan Orlovsky HOU 27.0 1.00 10/21/2010 8

66 Chris Redman ATL 33.2 1.00 10/21/2010 8

67 Stephen McGee DAL 24.9 1.00 10/21/2010 8

68 Drew Stanton DET 26.3 1.00 10/21/2010 8

69 Rex Grossman WAS 30.0 1.00 10/21/2010 8

70 Joe Webb MIN 23.8 1.00 11/06/2010

Ladies and gentlemen, your starting QB for the Washington Redskins :hot:

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Is Rashard Mendenhall the new Matt Forte? Well, with one big difference, RM cant catch. Mendenhall is putting up good FF numbers this season, but is doing so because of a huge workload. He has never really impressed me, but he has looked extraordinarily ordinary this season. I think the Steelers are in need of a quicker, more versatile back next season to share the load with Mendenhall. Im particularly interested in what Pittsburgh homers think, but would like to get thoughts fom anyone who has an opinion.

They can't run block at all, and they take him out all the time since Big Ben is back because Arians wants to throw it on every play. I don't know what you mean by huge workload - not since Roethlisberger has been back.

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Thanks. It's still a false dilemma, though. I looked at a lot of dynasty rankings last August while I was compiling mine. I don't want to say that I read every single set of free rankings on the internet... but I don't think I was too far off. It's impossible now to go back and verify who had whom ranked where because nobody other than us offers ranking history (which is a huge, huge, huge oversight in my book- ranking history is vital for performing any analysis like the one we're trying to do right now), but I definitely recall that only one person had Arian Foster in his top 20 in August. I can't even recall anyone else who had Foster in their top 30 at that point. Even if someone following F&L's rankings took Spiller over Foster, Foster would still be around several rounds absolutely screaming value before any of the other rankings would start advocating drafting him. If I recall correctly, there wasn't a single FBGs staffer that had him even as high as their top 40. This isn't a case where we're giving F&L props because he had Foster a couple of slots higher than everyone else, we're giving him props for having Foster several rounds ahead of anyone else. And he was also way ahead of the curve after Foster's huge week 1, too- like I said, he was on twitter telling people to trade Frank Gore for Arian Foster straight up. That was back when everyone else was still convinced he was a talentless system back, while Gore was a top 5 dynasty RB.

A hypothetical situation can't be a false dilemma, Commissoner Gordon. Based on the simple definition of the word hypothetical.

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Is Rashard Mendenhall the new Matt Forte? Well, with one big difference, RM cant catch. Mendenhall is putting up good FF numbers this season, but is doing so because of a huge workload. He has never really impressed me, but he has looked extraordinarily ordinary this season. I think the Steelers are in need of a quicker, more versatile back next season to share the load with Mendenhall. Im particularly interested in what Pittsburgh homers think, but would like to get thoughts fom anyone who has an opinion.

His offensive line has been horrible. There have not been many holes. They had 3 offensive linemen out recently. I think it if fair for you to question his talent, but I think one should look at the other variables too. I think he is, at the very least, better than Forte becuase he can break tackles and move the pile.

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A.foster was drafted in the 3rd round of one of my leagues this year. redraft. PPR. Was shocked as I thought I was high on him and planned on the 4th or 5th round for him!

In a non-PPR redraft (the money league I'm in), he was the 1.03 pick.I had planned on taking him in the 5th round.

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Is Rashard Mendenhall the new Matt Forte? Well, with one big difference, RM cant catch. Mendenhall is putting up good FF numbers this season, but is doing so because of a huge workload. He has never really impressed me, but he has looked extraordinarily ordinary this season. I think the Steelers are in need of a quicker, more versatile back next season to share the load with Mendenhall. Im particularly interested in what Pittsburgh homers think, but would like to get thoughts fom anyone who has an opinion.

They can't run block at all, and they take him out all the time since Big Ben is back because Arians wants to throw it on every play. I don't know what you mean by huge workload - not since Roethlisberger has been back.
He is 3rd in the league in carries. Youre right though, they have passed more since Big Ben has been back. I know the run blocking hasnt been good, but i wonder if the run game would be better if the Steelers had a more versatile back to share carries with Mendenhall.

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Is Rashard Mendenhall the new Matt Forte? Well, with one big difference, RM cant catch. Mendenhall is putting up good FF numbers this season, but is doing so because of a huge workload. He has never really impressed me, but he has looked extraordinarily ordinary this season. I think the Steelers are in need of a quicker, more versatile back next season to share the load with Mendenhall. Im particularly interested in what Pittsburgh homers think, but would like to get thoughts fom anyone who has an opinion.

His offensive line has been horrible. There have not been many holes. They had 3 offensive linemen out recently. I think it if fair for you to question his talent, but I think one should look at the other variables too. I think he is, at the very least, better than Forte becuase he can break tackles and move the pile.
I agree Mendenhall will break more tackles than Forte, but Forte isnt as one dimensional as Mendenhall. Nieither guy has a good OLine, but Fortes is probably worse. Im not suggesting Mendenhall should be ranked below Forte, but they should be ranked alot closer than most people think.

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Mendenhall vs Forte? Mendenhall by a good margin I would think. Forte has peaked imo while Mendenhall should only get better. Mendenhall can catch the ball better than most people think and he has the breakaway speed as well. He also is the goal line back while Forte will occasionally be replaced at the G. That's a huge factor for me.

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Mendenhall vs Forte? Mendenhall by a good margin I would think. Forte has peaked imo while Mendenhall should only get better. Mendenhall can catch the ball better than most people think and he has the breakaway speed as well. He also is the goal line back while Forte will occasionally be replaced at the G. That's a huge factor for me.

Im not so sure about the breakaway speed. Jonathan Stewart had as many 40+ yard runs last week as Mendenhall has had in his career. Im also not sure what you have seen that makes you think Mendenhall is a good pass catcher, but whatever it is, i havnt seen it.

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Is Robert Meachem worthless now? It seems like he is what he is - one of many targets, he'll have a few good games but no consistency. I thought he had a legit chance at becowing the 1b there but it just hasn't happened. I like his talent but am considering selling in the offseason for whatever I can get. Any thoughts on him?

I think you've got it summed up pretty well. In a smaller dynasty league, I'd cut bait. Just tired of it. And I really, really, really hate Sean Payton, so anything I can do to be less inclined to watch Saints games, I'm doing it.
I'd probably hold but only because you wouldn't get much in a trade in all likelihood. I also love his talent, but either he isn't as good as I thought he was going to be, the offense simply doesn't have room for him because they spread it around too much, or there is something else holding him back from taking the #2 job and running with it. This is his 4th season and he's regressed from last year if anything, so maybe it just isn't in the cards for him, at least in NO.

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Is Rashard Mendenhall the new Matt Forte? Well, with one big difference, RM cant catch. Mendenhall is putting up good FF numbers this season, but is doing so because of a huge workload. He has never really impressed me, but he has looked extraordinarily ordinary this season. I think the Steelers are in need of a quicker, more versatile back next season to share the load with Mendenhall. Im particularly interested in what Pittsburgh homers think, but would like to get thoughts fom anyone who has an opinion.

They can't run block at all, and they take him out all the time since Big Ben is back because Arians wants to throw it on every play. I don't know what you mean by huge workload - not since Roethlisberger has been back.
He is 3rd in the league in carries. Youre right though, they have passed more since Big Ben has been back. I know the run blocking hasnt been good, but i wonder if the run game would be better if the Steelers had a more versatile back to share carries with Mendenhall.
I'm not a huge Mendenhall fan, but trust me when I say that the Steelers run blocking is HORRIBLE (actually their blocking in general is, as they are just as bad when pass blocking). He's certainly not the most talented running back in the league, but that line is not doing him any favors and is making him look much more ordinary than he is. I would go so far as to say that most running backs in the league would be looking fairly ordinary behind the Steelers offensive line right now. I think he is a back end top 10 talent and much more talented than Matt Forte, but not talented enough to regularly overcome a horrid offensive line.

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Is Rashard Mendenhall the new Matt Forte? Well, with one big difference, RM cant catch. Mendenhall is putting up good FF numbers this season, but is doing so because of a huge workload. He has never really impressed me, but he has looked extraordinarily ordinary this season. I think the Steelers are in need of a quicker, more versatile back next season to share the load with Mendenhall. Im particularly interested in what Pittsburgh homers think, but would like to get thoughts fom anyone who has an opinion.

They can't run block at all, and they take him out all the time since Big Ben is back because Arians wants to throw it on every play. I don't know what you mean by huge workload - not since Roethlisberger has been back.
He is 3rd in the league in carries. Youre right though, they have passed more since Big Ben has been back. I know the run blocking hasnt been good, but i wonder if the run game would be better if the Steelers had a more versatile back to share carries with Mendenhall.
I'm not a huge Mendenhall fan, but trust me when I say that the Steelers run blocking is HORRIBLE (actually their blocking in general is, as they are just as bad when pass blocking). He's certainly not the most talented running back in the league, but that line is not doing him any favors and is making him look much more ordinary than he is. I would go so far as to say that most running backs in the league would be looking fairly ordinary behind the Steelers offensive line right now. I think he is a back end top 10 talent and much more talented than Matt Forte, but not talented enough to regularly overcome a horrid offensive line.
I agree that the Steelers OLine has been bad, but the Bears is just as bad, if not worse. I think Mendehalls talent is overrated, i can easily pick out 12-15 backs that are clearly more talented. Im not suggesing Forte is one of them, and Mendenhall is probably a better runner, but that gap is small. Even if Mendenhall is the better runner, i think Forte might be the better overall player.Behind equally bad OLines this season, both players have 1200 total yards. Forte has done so with 70 less touches. Granted, Forte catches more passes, but he still averages 4.2 YPC to Mendenhalls 3.9. Not to mention Forte has almost doubled Mendenhalls yards per reception.

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Mendenhall vs Forte? Mendenhall by a good margin I would think. Forte has peaked imo while Mendenhall should only get better. Mendenhall can catch the ball better than most people think and he has the breakaway speed as well. He also is the goal line back while Forte will occasionally be replaced at the G. That's a huge factor for me.

Im not so sure about the breakaway speed. Jonathan Stewart had as many 40+ yard runs last week as Mendenhall has had in his career. Im also not sure what you have seen that makes you think Mendenhall is a good pass catcher, but whatever it is, i havnt seen it.
Last year Mendy supplanted Mewelde as the 3rd down back in addition to his early down work. This year they've decreased his action in an effort to scale back his workload from earlier in the season.Mendy will never catch 50+ but he could hit the 40-45 range once Memo leaves next year.

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Mendenhall vs Forte? Mendenhall by a good margin I would think. Forte has peaked imo while Mendenhall should only get better. Mendenhall can catch the ball better than most people think and he has the breakaway speed as well. He also is the goal line back while Forte will occasionally be replaced at the G. That's a huge factor for me.

Im not so sure about the breakaway speed. Jonathan Stewart had as many 40+ yard runs last week as Mendenhall has had in his career. Im also not sure what you have seen that makes you think Mendenhall is a good pass catcher, but whatever it is, i havnt seen it.
Last year Mendy supplanted Mewelde as the 3rd down back in addition to his early down work. This year they've decreased his action in an effort to scale back his workload from earlier in the season.Mendy will never catch 50+ but he could hit the 40-45 range once Memo leaves next year.
Mendnhall worload has increased this season. Unless they plan on decreasing his carries next year, I dont see him getting 40+ receptions. Like i said earlier in the thread, i think the Steelers would be wise to bring in a faster, more versatile back to get 10-12 touches a game and keep Mendenhall in the 18-20 touch range.

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A.foster was drafted in the 3rd round of one of my leagues this year. redraft. PPR. Was shocked as I thought I was high on him and planned on the 4th or 5th round for him!

In a non-PPR redraft (the money league I'm in), he was the 1.03 pick.I had planned on taking him in the 5th round.
That's why you play in leagues that draft early. I have him in all but 1 league I drafted this year, his draft position went from round 16 when I drafted him in June to round 3 when I drafted him right before the start of the regular season. As for the Robert Meachem discussion, I think owners should remain patient. He was still recovering from surgery for much of the first half of this season, and its very likely the Saints WR lineup will change next year. I'm speaking from memory but I believe both lance Moore and Henderson are free agents this offseason

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misclicked into this thread. actually informative.

i think the gurus in here are a little too quick to dismiss blount. sure looks talented on his highlight reel nfl runs. he was projected (i know, lol nov mocks) to be a first rounder before the punch.

Haven't seen enough of Blount to make a call on him myself.

anyway, someone complied a lot of his runs here.

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...&p=12613739

as for plyka, i agree that morris has been frustrating at times with his usage. the atl game was an abomination. blount was gashing that team and rahim quashed a few drives by going to the pass and then refused to attempt crucial 4th and 1 situations.

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Thanks. It's still a false dilemma, though. I looked at a lot of dynasty rankings last August while I was compiling mine. I don't want to say that I read every single set of free rankings on the internet... but I don't think I was too far off. It's impossible now to go back and verify who had whom ranked where because nobody other than us offers ranking history (which is a huge, huge, huge oversight in my book- ranking history is vital for performing any analysis like the one we're trying to do right now), but I definitely recall that only one person had Arian Foster in his top 20 in August. I can't even recall anyone else who had Foster in their top 30 at that point. Even if someone following F&L's rankings took Spiller over Foster, Foster would still be around several rounds absolutely screaming value before any of the other rankings would start advocating drafting him. If I recall correctly, there wasn't a single FBGs staffer that had him even as high as their top 40. This isn't a case where we're giving F&L props because he had Foster a couple of slots higher than everyone else, we're giving him props for having Foster several rounds ahead of anyone else. And he was also way ahead of the curve after Foster's huge week 1, too- like I said, he was on twitter telling people to trade Frank Gore for Arian Foster straight up. That was back when everyone else was still convinced he was a talentless system back, while Gore was a top 5 dynasty RB.

A hypothetical situation can't be a false dilemma, Commissoner Gordon. Based on the simple definition of the word hypothetical.
Sure it can. It can be a hypothetical false dilemma. If your hypothetical situation says there are only two possible outcomes (wind up with Spiller or wind up with Foster), when in fact there are other possibilities (wind up with neither, wind up with both), then it's a false dilemma.

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misclicked into this thread. actually informative.

i think the gurus in here are a little too quick to dismiss blount. sure looks talented on his highlight reel nfl runs. he was projected (i know, lol nov mocks) to be a first rounder before the punch.

Haven't seen enough of Blount to make a call on him myself.

anyway, someone complied a lot of his runs here.

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...&p=12613739

as for plyka, i agree that morris has been frustrating at times with his usage. the atl game was an abomination. blount was gashing that team and rahim quashed a few drives by going to the pass and then refused to attempt crucial 4th and 1 situations.

I see people say this a lot. Do you have a link where someone projects him for the first round before the punch? I follow draft projections pretty closely, and I never once saw Blount projected as a first-round pick. The consensus among reputable sites seemed to be that he was a round 3 to 4 talent, with a chance at getting into the second. Edited by Redmen62

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iirc it was on espn and i guess it woulda been in like october. theres little chance i dig it up. i should have said he was projected by a few analysts and perhaps it was an outlier.

i dont follow ncaa too much but i remember looking into the guy after the punch just out of curiosity.

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Is Rashard Mendenhall the new Matt Forte? Well, with one big difference, RM cant catch.

Mendenhall is putting up good FF numbers this season, but is doing so because of a huge workload. He has never really impressed me, but he has looked extraordinarily ordinary this season. I think the Steelers are in need of a quicker, more versatile back next season to share the load with Mendenhall. Im particularly interested in what Pittsburgh homers think, but would like to get thoughts fom anyone who has an opinion.

They can't run block at all, and they take him out all the time since Big Ben is back because Arians wants to throw it on every play. I don't know what you mean by huge workload - not since Roethlisberger has been back.
He is 3rd in the league in carries. Youre right though, they have passed more since Big Ben has been back. I know the run blocking hasnt been good, but i wonder if the run game would be better if the Steelers had a more versatile back to share carries with Mendenhall.
I'm not a huge Mendenhall fan, but trust me when I say that the Steelers run blocking is HORRIBLE (actually their blocking in general is, as they are just as bad when pass blocking). He's certainly not the most talented running back in the league, but that line is not doing him any favors and is making him look much more ordinary than he is. I would go so far as to say that most running backs in the league would be looking fairly ordinary behind the Steelers offensive line right now. I think he is a back end top 10 talent and much more talented than Matt Forte, but not talented enough to regularly overcome a horrid offensive line.

I agree that the Steelers OLine has been bad, but the Bears is just as bad, if not worse. I think Mendehalls talent is overrated, i can easily pick out 12-15 backs that are clearly more talented. Im not suggesing Forte is one of them, and Mendenhall is probably a better runner, but that gap is small. Even if Mendenhall is the better runner, i think Forte might be the better overall player.

Behind equally bad OLines this season, both players have 1200 total yards. Forte has done so with 70 less touches. Granted, Forte catches more passes, but he still averages 4.2 YPC to Mendenhalls 3.9. Not to mention Forte has almost doubled Mendenhalls yards per reception.

I disagree with the bolded portion. I've gone on record stating that Mendenhall is only an above average talent, not an elite one and I believe that. However, I still think that puts him above the vast majority of NFL running backs and I think a LOT of people sell Mendenhall way too short in the talent department (case in point this argument- I believe he is a lot more talented than Matt Forte). When you watch him play, it's pretty clear he is capable of doing a lot more than someone like Matt Forte (or whatever truly average running back someone wants to use to compare him to), as he is still on pace for respectable rushing totals with that offensive line (and he is doing it essentially all off of talent, because there is nothing about his current situation that is helping him at all). Off the top of my head, I can only really say Peterson, Chris Johnson, Jamaal Charles, Ray Rice, MJD, McFadden, Arian Foster, Jonathan Stewart, Steven Jackson, and Frank Gore are without a doubt more talented. By my count, that's only 10 players. After that, it's up for debate and much more a matter of personal preference (for instance, I feel that Mendenhall is a much better player than LeSean McCoy and if there situations were switched, Mendenhall's numbers would look spectacular while McCoy's would look significantly worse than Mednenhall's currently). He falls anywhere in that 10 to 15 range, although I tend to put him much closer to 10 (so after dissecting, it appears I overstated originally when I called him a back end top 10 talent. He's right on the fringe of the top 10). He's not going to ever light the league on fire or compete with Adrian Peterson for the best running back in the league, but I feel he is an awful lot better than a marginal, easily replaced talent that a lot of people (not just you) tend to make him out to be on the basis of the horrible running situation he currently resides in.

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I disagree with the bolded portion. I've gone on record stating that Mendenhall is only an above average talent, not an elite one and I believe that. However, I still think that puts him above the vast majority of NFL running backs and I think a LOT of people sell Mendenhall way too short in the talent department (case in point this argument- I believe he is a lot more talented than Matt Forte). When you watch him play, it's pretty clear he is capable of doing a lot more than someone like Matt Forte (or whatever truly average running back someone wants to use to compare him to), as he is still on pace for respectable rushing totals with that offensive line (and he is doing it essentially all off of talent, because there is nothing about his current situation that is helping him at all). Off the top of my head, I can only really say Peterson, Chris Johnson, Jamaal Charles, Ray Rice, MJD, McFadden, Arian Foster, Jonathan Stewart, Steven Jackson, and Frank Gore are without a doubt more talented. By my count, that's only 10 players. After that, it's up for debate and much more a matter of personal preference (for instance, I feel that Mendenhall is a much better player than LeSean McCoy and if there situations were switched, Mendenhall's numbers would look spectacular while McCoy's would look significantly worse than Mednenhall's currently). He falls anywhere in that 10 to 15 range, although I tend to put him much closer to 10 (so after dissecting, it appears I overstated originally when I called him a back end top 10 talent. He's right on the fringe of the top 10). He's not going to ever light the league on fire or compete with Adrian Peterson for the best running back in the league, but I feel he is an awful lot better than a marginal, easily replaced talent that a lot of people (not just you) tend to make him out to be on the basis of the horrible running situation he currently resides in.

I think Mccoy is clearly the better RB. I also think the following RB's are all better than Mendenhall:Amhad BradshawPeyton HillisDeangelo WilliamsMichael TurnerKnowshon MorenoI also think that at least half of the following end up proving to be better than Mendenhall:Jahvid BestChris WellsRyan MathewsCJ SpillerI think Mendenhall is overrated because he was a first round pick, and is a Steeler. If he was drafted in the 2nd or 3rd round by the Bills, nobody would think much of him.Either way, there is no right or wrong here, at least not yet. We just have different opinions, which is OK.

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