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What will his role be on a team like SD if LT is gone.

i know this post isn't the best example, and i know there are legitimate concerns about LT being cut. but i don't get all the LT bashing around here. i didn't seem him play a lot this year, so perhaps someone who has would have better insight, but his numbers were NOT bad. 1500+ yards from scrimmage plus 12 TDs was good enough for RB#5 in my PPR league -- less than two points from being RB#3. and this was a bad year? sure, it was nothing like the past few years, but jeez. i'll take that production from a guy that everyone seems to be writing off...
Are you talking about LT bashing in this thread or in the Shark Pool? I don't think we've done much bashing on him in here, and I can't really speak to the rest of the forum.As far as his Dynasty prospects go, he's about to turn 30 and he's coming off a season where his per carry average dropped from 4.7 to 3.8. Sure, injuries were a factor, but that's what happens when RBs start looking down the barrel of 30 years old. Add in concerns about him being cut and concerns about this being the beginning of the end, and his Dynasty value is tumbling. I'm going to look into buying him while he's dirt cheap this offseason, but I'm not going to give up a nucleus player for the privilege.

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What will his role be on a team like SD if LT is gone.

i know this post isn't the best example, and i know there are legitimate concerns about LT being cut. but i don't get all the LT bashing around here. i didn't seem him play a lot this year, so perhaps someone who has would have better insight, but his numbers were NOT bad. 1500+ yards from scrimmage plus 12 TDs was good enough for RB#5 in my PPR league -- less than two points from being RB#3. and this was a bad year? sure, it was nothing like the past few years, but jeez. i'll take that production from a guy that everyone seems to be writing off...
Are you talking about LT bashing in this thread or in the Shark Pool? I don't think we've done much bashing on him in here, and I can't really speak to the rest of the forum.As far as his Dynasty prospects go, he's about to turn 30 and he's coming off a season where his per carry average dropped from 4.7 to 3.8. Sure, injuries were a factor, but that's what happens when RBs start looking down the barrel of 30 years old. Add in concerns about him being cut and concerns about this being the beginning of the end, and his Dynasty value is tumbling. I'm going to look into buying him while he's dirt cheap this offseason, but I'm not going to give up a nucleus player for the privilege.
sorry, i wasn't being clear. i meant in the shark pool generally. i actually just found this thread a few pages ago, and haven't read the whole thing. i agree he's on the downside of his career -- his high number of career touches concerns me, in particular -- and there's no question that his market value in dynasty leagues is down significantly. but i think the market is undervaluing him, mostly because his underperformance this year is being greatly exaggerated. i've heard a number of comments about what a terrible year he had, he's done, etc. (i saw him traded straight up for rashard mendenhall in a league where we keep only 4 guys. just wacky, in my opinion.) i'm just not seeing it -- but like i said, i didn't actually see him play much this year, and i'm basing my opinion mostly on his stats.

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Anybody have a good IDP Dynasty Rankings list? :confused:

I've never done IDP leagues before, but I'm trying to fill in some knowledge gaps . . . and considering adding IDP Ranks to the blog at some point this offseason.

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I'm curious about what people think of Sidney Rice's prospects this upcoming season. I certainly was high on him after a rookie year in which he showed stud potential and a nose for the endzone. But Rice was injured a lot this year and never seemed to get into a rhythm when he returned, though he still has a nose for the endzone (15 for 141 and 4 TDs in 2008). Was this simply a season derailed by injury? Can he bounce back in 2009? Will the jury remain out until the Vikings' QB and HC situations are resolved? Will Rice be able to break out in a run-first offense whose passing game seems to focus on Berrian, Wade and Shiancoe? Sidney Rice currently resides at the end of my WR bench and I'm wondering if that spot might be better served by Josh Morgan, Michael Crabtree, etc. Thanks as always for your input.

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I'm curious about what people think of Sidney Rice's prospects this upcoming season. I certainly was high on him after a rookie year in which he showed stud potential and a nose for the endzone. But Rice was injured a lot this year and never seemed to get into a rhythm when he returned, though he still has a nose for the endzone (15 for 141 and 4 TDs in 2008). Was this simply a season derailed by injury? Can he bounce back in 2009? Will the jury remain out until the Vikings' QB and HC situations are resolved? Will Rice be able to break out in a run-first offense whose passing game seems to focus on Berrian, Wade and Shiancoe? Sidney Rice currently resides at the end of my WR bench and I'm wondering if that spot might be better served by Josh Morgan, Michael Crabtree, etc. Thanks as always for your input.

:hijacked: How did I miss him on my buy-low list? Rice was one of the guys I first had in mind when I started, but I just completely left him off. I think he's a terrific target this offseason. He struggled with a knee injury that he said "sabotaged" his whole season, and he should have a significant QB upgrade within the next year or two. I'd put him in the same tier as Josh Morgan, but Crabtree is going to be much higher.

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If people prefer Schaub or Rivers, then sure, buy Brady. I just know his owners in my league will want Peyton, Brees, or perhaps another top 6-8 QB IF they also get a high 1st or a good RB, his value is still quite high in my circles. Same with Moss, but if you can trade a guy like Brandon Marshall, do you do it?

I would trade Marshall for Randy Moss, yes.
I think you'd be making a big mistake if you moved Marshall for Moss str8up. Pretty sure value would be Marsh for Moss/late 1st right now.

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If people prefer Schaub or Rivers, then sure, buy Brady. I just know his owners in my league will want Peyton, Brees, or perhaps another top 6-8 QB IF they also get a high 1st or a good RB, his value is still quite high in my circles. Same with Moss, but if you can trade a guy like Brandon Marshall, do you do it?

I would trade Marshall for Randy Moss, yes.
I think you'd be making a big mistake if you moved Marshall for Moss str8up. Pretty sure value would be Marsh for Moss/late 1st right now.
100% agree, if not more

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Anybody have a good IDP Dynasty Rankings list? :goodposting: I've never done IDP leagues before, but I'm trying to fill in some knowledge gaps . . . and considering adding IDP Ranks to the blog at some point this offseason.

Come on over to the IDP forum, and get some education... IDP for dynasty are a bit harder to rank, as scheme changes more, and there is more turnover at positions.

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I'm curious about what people think of Sidney Rice's prospects this upcoming season. I certainly was high on him after a rookie year in which he showed stud potential and a nose for the endzone. But Rice was injured a lot this year and never seemed to get into a rhythm when he returned, though he still has a nose for the endzone (15 for 141 and 4 TDs in 2008). Was this simply a season derailed by injury? Can he bounce back in 2009? Will the jury remain out until the Vikings' QB and HC situations are resolved? Will Rice be able to break out in a run-first offense whose passing game seems to focus on Berrian, Wade and Shiancoe? Sidney Rice currently resides at the end of my WR bench and I'm wondering if that spot might be better served by Josh Morgan, Michael Crabtree, etc. Thanks as always for your input.

:lmao: How did I miss him on my buy-low list? Rice was one of the guys I first had in mind when I started, but I just completely left him off. I think he's a terrific target this offseason. He struggled with a knee injury that he said "sabotaged" his whole season, and he should have a significant QB upgrade within the next year or two. I'd put him in the same tier as Josh Morgan, but Crabtree is going to be much higher.
It starts and ends with a QB. He's still young, got good skills and is a terrific red zone target. I liked him last year and it didn't work out so well but I'll go back to the well this year hoping for the big jump in play...

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What are your opinions on the future dynasty prospects of Michael Turner and Frank Gore? Who would you rather have going forward in a PPR league?

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Anybody have a good IDP Dynasty Rankings list? :help: I've never done IDP leagues before, but I'm trying to fill in some knowledge gaps . . . and considering adding IDP Ranks to the blog at some point this offseason.

Come on over to the IDP forum, and get some education... IDP for dynasty are a bit harder to rank, as scheme changes more, and there is more turnover at positions.
IDP dynasty rankings are much tougher than offensive rankings, especially this time of year. A stud in once scheme is a borderline starter in another. The best example...and the one that I learned this hard lesson from...is Jonathan Vilma. As a 4-3 MLB, he was once the #1 fantasy LB and is pretty much a top 5 stud every year. He would be lucky to be a top 30-40 LB as a 3-4 inside LB, which he was with the Jets. Offense is nowhere near as scheme dependent and nowhere near as volatile as IDP rankings.Another example is one coming up, and that is Aaron Kampman. As a 4-3 DE, he is a top 10 DL. Now the Packers are changing to a 3-4 defense and it is not known if Kampman will play as a 3-4 DE, or an OLB. In either instance, his value takes a major hit. Right now, we have no idea how or what position to rank him. In the past, players like D.J. Williams and Mathias Kiwanuka have seen their values change significantly because of a position change. Another big difference is that great NFL defensive players are not always great fantasy players. That is the biggest difference between offense and IDPs. The best example of this is Raider CB Nnamdi Asomugha. He is arguably the best CB in the league, but he is more or less worthless from an IDP perspective. Talent is less important, although it certainly has its place. Knowing that was the toughest thing for me to learn by far when I first started playing in IDP leagues and later ranking them. Keeping on top of scheme/coaching changes is critical with IDPs.

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If people prefer Schaub or Rivers, then sure, buy Brady. I just know his owners in my league will want Peyton, Brees, or perhaps another top 6-8 QB IF they also get a high 1st or a good RB, his value is still quite high in my circles. Same with Moss, but if you can trade a guy like Brandon Marshall, do you do it?

I would trade Marshall for Randy Moss, yes.
I think you'd be making a big mistake if you moved Marshall for Moss str8up. Pretty sure value would be Marsh for Moss/late 1st right now.
100% agree, if not more
That's why Moss is a buy-low. If everybody still had him ranked ahead of guys like Marshall, you wouldn't be buying him.

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What are your opinions on the future dynasty prospects of Michael Turner and Frank Gore? Who would you rather have going forward in a PPR league?

I prefer Gore in a PPR league . . . although I'm guessing most would prefer Turner.

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Anybody have a good IDP Dynasty Rankings list? :help: I've never done IDP leagues before, but I'm trying to fill in some knowledge gaps . . . and considering adding IDP Ranks to the blog at some point this offseason.

Come on over to the IDP forum, and get some education... IDP for dynasty are a bit harder to rank, as scheme changes more, and there is more turnover at positions.
IDP dynasty rankings are much tougher than offensive rankings, especially this time of year. A stud in once scheme is a borderline starter in another. The best example...and the one that I learned this hard lesson from...is Jonathan Vilma. As a 4-3 MLB, he was once the #1 fantasy LB and is pretty much a top 5 stud every year. He would be lucky to be a top 30-40 LB as a 3-4 inside LB, which he was with the Jets. Offense is nowhere near as scheme dependent and nowhere near as volatile as IDP rankings.Another example is one coming up, and that is Aaron Kampman. As a 4-3 DE, he is a top 10 DL. Now the Packers are changing to a 3-4 defense and it is not known if Kampman will play as a 3-4 DE, or an OLB. In either instance, his value takes a major hit. Right now, we have no idea how or what position to rank him. In the past, players like D.J. Williams and Mathias Kiwanuka have seen their values change significantly because of a position change. Another big difference is that great NFL defensive players are not always great fantasy players. That is the biggest difference between offense and IDPs. The best example of this is Raider CB Nnamdi Asomugha. He is arguably the best CB in the league, but he is more or less worthless from an IDP perspective. Talent is less important, although it certainly has its place. Knowing that was the toughest thing for me to learn by far when I first started playing in IDP leagues and later ranking them. Keeping on top of scheme/coaching changes is critical with IDPs.
:confused: Good stuff. Thanks, Anthony.

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F&L or Shark Pool:Now that Singletary will be the coach headed to next season for the 49ers and Martz looking like he is on his way out the door what value does Vernon Davis hold?Do you think that he will he finially get a chance to prove that he can produce now that Martz and his TE-less offense will be gone? Or, do you see VD headed to the locker room verbally form Singletary more often than not during gametime?

Who says he hasn't already gotten a chance to produce? He's been in the league for three years and his production has never been better than mediocre. I watch some of the 9er games and I can tell you that he comes across as a massive idiot. Inflated opinion of his own abilities. Celebrates excessively after minor plays. Freddie Mitchell in a TE's body.I still think he can become a useful Randy McMichael type TE, but I'll be surprised if he ever joins the elite ranks. He's a better athlete than football player and his mental shortcomings present a constant problem.
I know a former NFL scout that tagged Davis as a bust from day 1. He says Delanie Walker has a better shot at becoming a start than Davis does.

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If anyone is interested in possible trade offers:

I own Peterson and Larry Fitzgerald in my $100 Dynasty salary cap league. Fitz is $30 going into next season and Peterson is $22. The Deangelo Williams owner offered me Williams for either guy. The only reason to even consider the offer is that while Williams is a $40 player, I can franchise him for $5.

Not seeking advice, just an FYI.

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Could we just start a Roethlisberger thread or something? Good god.

Sorry to bother you. We'll take our dynasty talk somewhere else.

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Carson Palmer too low.

Steven Jackson WAY to high for a guy who's really had only one good year

Westbrook too high - Faberge Egg is always hurt.ALWAYS.

Portis too low

P. Thomas, Slaton, K. Smith too low

J. Addai is probably too high,even at #21.

LJ is too low.

Bowe is going to have a breakout season,he's too low at #12,IMO

TJ Housh too low

Scheffler too high, new coaching staff has never had the desire to call too many passes to the TE position..

John Carlson is probably too low - Mora's offense loves to use the TE position.

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Carson Palmer too low.

Steven Jackson WAY to high for a guy who's really had only one good year

Westbrook too high - Faberge Egg is always hurt.ALWAYS.

Portis too low

P. Thomas, Slaton, K. Smith too low

J. Addai is probably too high,even at #21.

LJ is too low.

Bowe is going to have a breakout season,he's too low at #12,IMO

TJ Housh too low

Scheffler too high, new coaching staff has never had the desire to call too many passes to the TE position..

John Carlson is probably too low - Mora's offense loves to use the TE position.

Watson was not an ideal target. The Pats tried to use him but he was too inconsistent. Thomas probably had the better hands but he was injured and in Belichick's doghouse pretty often. I don't think that McDaniels will be afraid to get Scheffler involved in the passing game if he shows an ability to hold on to the ball. With Cutler's arm, and love for his Amogo Scheffler, I think they will find a way to use him effectively.

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I noticed you did not include Jake Delhomme (also not Matt Moore) on your list. I was wondering what are your thought on either of these players. Any QB with Steve Smith to throw to has some fantasy value and the feeling I get is that Carolina is tired of Delhomme throwing INT's when they rae in must win games. Matt Moore has shown some promised before and I wonder if you think he wil get a shot at the starting job in training camp.

I don't think Matt Moore has any shot at the starting job in training camp. His late rookie season "success" has always been a bit overstated, coming, as it was, on the heels of Chris Weinke, David Carr, and Vinny Testaverde.

Worse, he imploded in training camp / pre-season action last year to the point where Carolina felt they had to go get Josh McCown because Moore wasn't ready to be the No. 2 guy.

I'm no Delhomme apologist, but Carolina was a contender with him. They'd struggle to reach .500 with Moore.

Of course he has a shot. If he didn't Carolina would cut him. I'm not sure why you feel the need to understate Moore's late rookie season success just because it came after a bunch a turds. The guy put up 2 Wins against 2 division champs and kept the game close against the cowboys.

Granted this camp/pre-season was disapointing, but he is still only 24 and has shown flashes on the field. McCown is a journeyman sub-par #2 QB with no upside. Just the thought that Moore has No chance to overtake McCown and adventually start is just crazy.

And of course Delhomme gave the team a better chance to win this year. He is a seasoned vet who makes top 10 dollars for his position while Moore was an undrafted FA with only 3 starts.

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like this buy low-sell high segment--some valuable info there.

What do you think of Steve Smith's chances of maintaining his value? Delhomme was so awful against ARI (and Fox so dumb for abandoning his running game in favor of Jake) I'm worried about some sort of regime change knocking his value down. Delhomme sucks but he definitely locks onto Smith--what do you think are the chances they go in another direction and what would that do to his value?

Additionally, at what age would you look to sell that type of WR? How long Galloway played makes me think he could be around awhile, but for a guy who's primarily advantage is being a burner, when are they likely to lose their speed?

Delhomme has one more year left on his contract, and I'd be surprised if he isn't the starter again in '09. Smith loses some value due to instability at QB in 2010, but it's also possible that the next QB is better than Delhomme. To me, though, Smith is definitely Top-5 in talent at the position -- and possibly as high as Top-2 -- so he's almost certain to maintain value for the next few seasons.

Steve Smith is one of those players I'm constantly trying to acquire. I traded him a couple of years ago in a package for Westbrook, and I've been trying to get him back since. I'm sure I'll try again this offseason, probably with Westbrook as bait in a package deal.

:goodposting: Did you forget about the 07 fiasco? Smith almost became unstartable without Delhomme at QB. Granted those were some bad QBs chucking the ball, but if finding a legit QB was easy, all teams would have one.

I'm confused because you seem really down on Moore, McCown is a chump and Delhomme is near the end of his road and not worth the $ he is getting paid. How is Smith Certain to maintain his value? Smith hits 30 next year and it still remains to be seen how how well he holds up as he seems to be one of the more physical WRs. These WRs who still produce into their Mid-30 either seem to be the bigger type (TO) or ones who shy away from contact (Harrison, Mason). Smith is neither big nor does he shy away from contact.

Looking back at 07. In the 11 games Smith played where either Delhomme or Moore didn't start he finished with...

50 rec 474 yards and 2 TDs.

I like Smith, but I can't see him as a top 5 going forward due to his age, style of play and QB concerns.

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I noticed you did not include Jake Delhomme (also not Matt Moore) on your list. I was wondering what are your thought on either of these players. Any QB with Steve Smith to throw to has some fantasy value and the feeling I get is that Carolina is tired of Delhomme throwing INT's when they rae in must win games. Matt Moore has shown some promised before and I wonder if you think he wil get a shot at the starting job in training camp.

I don't think Matt Moore has any shot at the starting job in training camp. His late rookie season "success" has always been a bit overstated, coming, as it was, on the heels of Chris Weinke, David Carr, and Vinny Testaverde.

Worse, he imploded in training camp / pre-season action last year to the point where Carolina felt they had to go get Josh McCown because Moore wasn't ready to be the No. 2 guy.

I'm no Delhomme apologist, but Carolina was a contender with him. They'd struggle to reach .500 with Moore.

Of course he has a shot. If he didn't Carolina would cut him. I'm not sure why you feel the need to understate Moore's late rookie season success just because it came after a bunch a turds. The guy put up 2 Wins against 2 division champs and kept the game close against the cowboys.

Granted this camp/pre-season was disapointing, but he is still only 24 and has shown flashes on the field. McCown is a journeyman sub-par #2 QB with no upside. Just the thought that Moore has No chance to overtake McCown and adventually start is just crazy.

And of course Delhomme gave the team a better chance to win this year. He is a seasoned vet who makes top 10 dollars for his position while Moore was an undrafted FA with only 3 starts.

:hifive:

OK, and I'm looking forward to seeing Chad Henne, Seneca Walllace, Dennis Dixon, and Colt Brennan take over the starting jobs in training camp too.

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like this buy low-sell high segment--some valuable info there.

What do you think of Steve Smith's chances of maintaining his value? Delhomme was so awful against ARI (and Fox so dumb for abandoning his running game in favor of Jake) I'm worried about some sort of regime change knocking his value down. Delhomme sucks but he definitely locks onto Smith--what do you think are the chances they go in another direction and what would that do to his value?

Additionally, at what age would you look to sell that type of WR? How long Galloway played makes me think he could be around awhile, but for a guy who's primarily advantage is being a burner, when are they likely to lose their speed?

Delhomme has one more year left on his contract, and I'd be surprised if he isn't the starter again in '09. Smith loses some value due to instability at QB in 2010, but it's also possible that the next QB is better than Delhomme. To me, though, Smith is definitely Top-5 in talent at the position -- and possibly as high as Top-2 -- so he's almost certain to maintain value for the next few seasons.

Steve Smith is one of those players I'm constantly trying to acquire. I traded him a couple of years ago in a package for Westbrook, and I've been trying to get him back since. I'm sure I'll try again this offseason, probably with Westbrook as bait in a package deal.

:mellow: Did you forget about the 07 fiasco? Smith almost became unstartable without Delhomme at QB. Granted those were some bad QBs chucking the ball, but if finding a legit QB was easy, all teams would have one.

I'm confused because you seem really down on Moore, McCown is a chump and Delhomme is near the end of his road and not worth the $ he is getting paid. How is Smith Certain to maintain his value? Smith hits 30 next year and it still remains to be seen how how well he holds up as he seems to be one of the more physical WRs. These WRs who still produce into their Mid-30 either seem to be the bigger type (TO) or ones who shy away from contact (Harrison, Mason). Smith is neither big nor does he shy away from contact.

Looking back at 07. In the 11 games Smith played where either Delhomme or Moore didn't start he finished with...

50 rec 474 yards and 2 TDs.

I like Smith, but I can't see him as a top 5 going forward due to his age, style of play and QB concerns.

Because there is no chance the Panthers will run out a QB as bad as Chris Weinke or 44-year-old Vinny Testaverde when/if Delhomme leaves Carolina. There is no WR in the league that would have produced with those 2 QBs. We're not talking about run of the mill backups here. We're talking about two of the worst players to go under center in years.

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I noticed you did not include Jake Delhomme (also not Matt Moore) on your list. I was wondering what are your thought on either of these players. Any QB with Steve Smith to throw to has some fantasy value and the feeling I get is that Carolina is tired of Delhomme throwing INT's when they rae in must win games. Matt Moore has shown some promised before and I wonder if you think he wil get a shot at the starting job in training camp.

I don't think Matt Moore has any shot at the starting job in training camp. His late rookie season "success" has always been a bit overstated, coming, as it was, on the heels of Chris Weinke, David Carr, and Vinny Testaverde.

Worse, he imploded in training camp / pre-season action last year to the point where Carolina felt they had to go get Josh McCown because Moore wasn't ready to be the No. 2 guy.

I'm no Delhomme apologist, but Carolina was a contender with him. They'd struggle to reach .500 with Moore.

Of course he has a shot. If he didn't Carolina would cut him. I'm not sure why you feel the need to understate Moore's late rookie season success just because it came after a bunch a turds. The guy put up 2 Wins against 2 division champs and kept the game close against the cowboys.

Granted this camp/pre-season was disapointing, but he is still only 24 and has shown flashes on the field. McCown is a journeyman sub-par #2 QB with no upside. Just the thought that Moore has No chance to overtake McCown and adventually start is just crazy.

And of course Delhomme gave the team a better chance to win this year. He is a seasoned vet who makes top 10 dollars for his position while Moore was an undrafted FA with only 3 starts.

:rolleyes:

OK, and I'm looking forward to seeing Chad Henne, Seneca Walllace, Dennis Dixon, and Colt Brennan take over the starting jobs in training camp too.

Are you talking just for 09 or the future in general? I think it is a bit early to dismiss Henne or Brennan from ever being NFL starters.

I wouldn't put anything on Moore being a starter in 09, but writing him off after 1 bad camp doesn't make sense.

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like this buy low-sell high segment--some valuable info there.

What do you think of Steve Smith's chances of maintaining his value? Delhomme was so awful against ARI (and Fox so dumb for abandoning his running game in favor of Jake) I'm worried about some sort of regime change knocking his value down. Delhomme sucks but he definitely locks onto Smith--what do you think are the chances they go in another direction and what would that do to his value?

Additionally, at what age would you look to sell that type of WR? How long Galloway played makes me think he could be around awhile, but for a guy who's primarily advantage is being a burner, when are they likely to lose their speed?

Delhomme has one more year left on his contract, and I'd be surprised if he isn't the starter again in '09. Smith loses some value due to instability at QB in 2010, but it's also possible that the next QB is better than Delhomme. To me, though, Smith is definitely Top-5 in talent at the position -- and possibly as high as Top-2 -- so he's almost certain to maintain value for the next few seasons.

Steve Smith is one of those players I'm constantly trying to acquire. I traded him a couple of years ago in a package for Westbrook, and I've been trying to get him back since. I'm sure I'll try again this offseason, probably with Westbrook as bait in a package deal.

:thumbup: Did you forget about the 07 fiasco? Smith almost became unstartable without Delhomme at QB. Granted those were some bad QBs chucking the ball, but if finding a legit QB was easy, all teams would have one.

I'm confused because you seem really down on Moore, McCown is a chump and Delhomme is near the end of his road and not worth the $ he is getting paid. How is Smith Certain to maintain his value? Smith hits 30 next year and it still remains to be seen how how well he holds up as he seems to be one of the more physical WRs. These WRs who still produce into their Mid-30 either seem to be the bigger type (TO) or ones who shy away from contact (Harrison, Mason). Smith is neither big nor does he shy away from contact.

Looking back at 07. In the 11 games Smith played where either Delhomme or Moore didn't start he finished with...

50 rec 474 yards and 2 TDs.

I like Smith, but I can't see him as a top 5 going forward due to his age, style of play and QB concerns.

Because there is no chance the Panthers will run out a QB as bad as Chris Weinke or 44-year-old Vinny Testaverde when/if Delhomme leaves Carolina. There is no WR in the league that would have produced with those 2 QBs. We're not talking about run of the mill backups here. We're talking about two of the worst players to go under center in years.
Weinke was terrible, no arguement here. Testeverde wasn't very good, but not the worst thing ever.

Point is that you want to say Steve Smith should continue to be ELITE for a couple more years while at the same time he has never shown to be elite without Delhomme at the QB spot. Sure Carolina could bring in someone as good as Delhomme, but how can you see the end of the Delhomme era ahead and still say something like that without there being a QB on the roster who can keep Smith a stud?

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I agree that Steve Smith (CAR) is a risk because of the team's QB situation. IMO, he shouldn't be ranked as high as his talent alone would dictate. He is a player with risk of high variability in production (higher than the typical WR in his tier), and owners should decide if their team can bear that risk. For some, they want the potential to have the #1 WR. For others, they want the relative safety of another WR in the tier that may not reach #1, but also may not have the floor that Smith has.

This is a debatable point and reasonable minds can disagree.

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Great rankings as usual.

I see Culpepper and Henne making the big jumps in value this season at QB. Could be the Culpepper ranking was before Linehan. I like him better than several others ahead of him.... probably above Leftwich who as an UFA has lesser prospects than Culpepper [at least until Culpepper gets released]. A good buy time for both anyway at these values.

Have you considered ranking a top 100 overall?

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I noticed you did not include Jake Delhomme (also not Matt Moore) on your list. I was wondering what are your thought on either of these players. Any QB with Steve Smith to throw to has some fantasy value and the feeling I get is that Carolina is tired of Delhomme throwing INT's when they rae in must win games. Matt Moore has shown some promised before and I wonder if you think he wil get a shot at the starting job in training camp.

I don't think Matt Moore has any shot at the starting job in training camp. His late rookie season "success" has always been a bit overstated, coming, as it was, on the heels of Chris Weinke, David Carr, and Vinny Testaverde.

Worse, he imploded in training camp / pre-season action last year to the point where Carolina felt they had to go get Josh McCown because Moore wasn't ready to be the No. 2 guy.

I'm no Delhomme apologist, but Carolina was a contender with him. They'd struggle to reach .500 with Moore.

Of course he has a shot. If he didn't Carolina would cut him. I'm not sure why you feel the need to understate Moore's late rookie season success just because it came after a bunch a turds. The guy put up 2 Wins against 2 division champs and kept the game close against the cowboys.

Granted this camp/pre-season was disapointing, but he is still only 24 and has shown flashes on the field. McCown is a journeyman sub-par #2 QB with no upside. Just the thought that Moore has No chance to overtake McCown and adventually start is just crazy.

And of course Delhomme gave the team a better chance to win this year. He is a seasoned vet who makes top 10 dollars for his position while Moore was an undrafted FA with only 3 starts.

:mellow:

OK, and I'm looking forward to seeing Chad Henne, Seneca Walllace, Dennis Dixon, and Colt Brennan take over the starting jobs in training camp too.

Are you talking just for 09 or the future in general? I think it is a bit early to dismiss Henne or Brennan from ever being NFL starters.

I wouldn't put anything on Moore being a starter in 09, but writing him off after 1 bad camp doesn't make sense.

I'm not trying to get short with you here or anything, but you quoted me so you should know the question. What I addressed was whether I believed Moore had any chance to unseat Delhomme in training camp this summer, and I said I believed he did not. You then extrapolated that into my saying that he was junk and will never have a future.

I do not believe Moore will start for the Panthers in Week 1 of 2009, nor do I believe any of the other guys I listed will unseat the starters this summer.

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like this buy low-sell high segment--some valuable info there.

What do you think of Steve Smith's chances of maintaining his value? Delhomme was so awful against ARI (and Fox so dumb for abandoning his running game in favor of Jake) I'm worried about some sort of regime change knocking his value down. Delhomme sucks but he definitely locks onto Smith--what do you think are the chances they go in another direction and what would that do to his value?

Additionally, at what age would you look to sell that type of WR? How long Galloway played makes me think he could be around awhile, but for a guy who's primarily advantage is being a burner, when are they likely to lose their speed?

Delhomme has one more year left on his contract, and I'd be surprised if he isn't the starter again in '09. Smith loses some value due to instability at QB in 2010, but it's also possible that the next QB is better than Delhomme. To me, though, Smith is definitely Top-5 in talent at the position -- and possibly as high as Top-2 -- so he's almost certain to maintain value for the next few seasons.

Steve Smith is one of those players I'm constantly trying to acquire. I traded him a couple of years ago in a package for Westbrook, and I've been trying to get him back since. I'm sure I'll try again this offseason, probably with Westbrook as bait in a package deal.

:mellow: Did you forget about the 07 fiasco? Smith almost became unstartable without Delhomme at QB. Granted those were some bad QBs chucking the ball, but if finding a legit QB was easy, all teams would have one.

I'm confused because you seem really down on Moore, McCown is a chump and Delhomme is near the end of his road and not worth the $ he is getting paid. How is Smith Certain to maintain his value? Smith hits 30 next year and it still remains to be seen how how well he holds up as he seems to be one of the more physical WRs. These WRs who still produce into their Mid-30 either seem to be the bigger type (TO) or ones who shy away from contact (Harrison, Mason). Smith is neither big nor does he shy away from contact.

Looking back at 07. In the 11 games Smith played where either Delhomme or Moore didn't start he finished with...

50 rec 474 yards and 2 TDs.

I like Smith, but I can't see him as a top 5 going forward due to his age, style of play and QB concerns.

Because there is no chance the Panthers will run out a QB as bad as Chris Weinke or 44-year-old Vinny Testaverde when/if Delhomme leaves Carolina. There is no WR in the league that would have produced with those 2 QBs. We're not talking about run of the mill backups here. We're talking about two of the worst players to go under center in years.
Weinke was terrible, no arguement here. Testeverde wasn't very good, but not the worst thing ever.

Point is that you want to say Steve Smith should continue to be ELITE for a couple more years while at the same time he has never shown to be elite without Delhomme at the QB spot. Sure Carolina could bring in someone as good as Delhomme, but how can you see the end of the Delhomme era ahead and still say something like that without there being a QB on the roster who can keep Smith a stud?

Weinke, Testeverde, and David Carr were all three beyond awful -- just despicable quarterbacks in Carolina. Like I said, there isn't a receiver in the league that would have produced with any of the three. If you use Smith's production under that threesome to analyze his fantasy value, I honestly wouldn't pay any attention to your results. It's nonsensical.

Smith hasn't shown to be elite without Delhomme because he's never had another NFL-level QB throwing to him. He did fine with Matt Moore despite the fact that Moore was an undrafted rookie at the time.

The point is Smith makes Delhomme look like a better QB than he is, and he's a supremely talented receiver. As long they bring in a QB who is not awful, he will continue to produce. Delhomme was a below average NFL QB in 2009, and Smith was still the only WR in the league to average 100 yards a game this season.

Edited by Fear & Loathing

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Great rankings as usual. I see Culpepper and Henne making the big jumps in value this season at QB. Could be the Culpepper ranking was before Linehan. I like him better than several others ahead of him.... probably above Leftwich who as an UFA has lesser prospects than Culpepper [at least until Culpepper gets released]. A good buy time for both anyway at these values. Have you considered ranking a top 100 overall?

Thanks, Big Jim. Here's where I differ:I don't think there's any chance Culpepper is still on the Lions roster come spring (with a $2.5M roster bonus due plus a $2.5M salary and a new regime that has no allegiance to him), so I'm not really going to rank him as a guy with a starting job. If he's not starting in Detroit, I have no idea who is going to give him a job.And I think Leftwich has a much better chance of landing a shot at a starting job than Culpepper does. Edited by Fear & Loathing

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Great rankings as usual. I see Culpepper and Henne making the big jumps in value this season at QB. Could be the Culpepper ranking was before Linehan. I like him better than several others ahead of him.... probably above Leftwich who as an UFA has lesser prospects than Culpepper [at least until Culpepper gets released]. A good buy time for both anyway at these values. Have you considered ranking a top 100 overall?

Disagree.I wouldn't touch Culpepper outside of 24 team leagues with 2 starting QBs. I think Leftwich has a better shot of makingan impact next season.

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Great rankings as usual.

I see Culpepper and Henne making the big jumps in value this season at QB. Could be the Culpepper ranking was before Linehan. I like him better than several others ahead of him.... probably above Leftwich who as an UFA has lesser prospects than Culpepper [at least until Culpepper gets released]. A good buy time for both anyway at these values.

Have you considered ranking a top 100 overall?

OK, I give up.

Forecast> Dynasty Ranking Viewer = "No rankings in last 14 days."

Forecast> Redraft Ranking viewer = "No rankings in last 14 days."

If these rankings are so frigin' great, just where are they hiding?

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Great rankings as usual.

I see Culpepper and Henne making the big jumps in value this season at QB. Could be the Culpepper ranking was before Linehan. I like him better than several others ahead of him.... probably above Leftwich who as an UFA has lesser prospects than Culpepper [at least until Culpepper gets released]. A good buy time for both anyway at these values.

Have you considered ranking a top 100 overall?

OK, I give up.

Forecast> Dynasty Ranking Viewer = "No rankings in last 14 days."

Forecast> Redraft Ranking viewer = "No rankings in last 14 days."

If these rankings are so frigin' great, just where are they hiding?

LOL

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I don't think there's any chance Culpepper is still on the Lions roster come spring (with a $2.5M roster bonus due plus a $2.5M salary and a new regime that has no allegiance to him), so I'm not really going to rank him as a guy with a starting job. If he's not starting in Detroit, I have no idea who is going to give him a job.And I think Leftwich has a much better chance of landing a shot at a starting job than Culpepper does.

We'll see. I am intrigued by your comment about no allegiances in Detroit. I don't think any coach in the NFL has more allegiance to Culpepper than Linehan. IMHO, Culpepper put Linehan on the map with one of the best QB seasons in NFL history. I see him restructuring and staying based solely on that allegiance, but we'll see if Detroit gets better options. Also, it goes without saying no one should spend much for him. I'd imagine he can be picked up as a FA in most leagues and dumped just as easily if he doesn't re-up with Detroit. For that risk, and the possibility of throwing to Calvin in a Linehan scheme, he has better investment value than Leftwich right now IMHO.

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I don't think there's any chance Culpepper is still on the Lions roster come spring (with a $2.5M roster bonus due plus a $2.5M salary and a new regime that has no allegiance to him), so I'm not really going to rank him as a guy with a starting job. If he's not starting in Detroit, I have no idea who is going to give him a job.

And I think Leftwich has a much better chance of landing a shot at a starting job than Culpepper does.

We'll see. I am intrigued by your comment about no allegiances in Detroit. I don't think any coach in the NFL has more allegiance to Culpepper than Linehan. IMHO, Culpepper put Linehan on the map with one of the best QB seasons in NFL history. I see him restructuring and staying based solely on that allegiance, but we'll see if Detroit gets better options. Also, it goes without saying no one should spend much for him. I'd imagine he can be picked up as a FA in most leagues and dumped just as easily if he doesn't re-up with Detroit. For that risk, and the possibility of throwing to Calvin in a Linehan scheme, he has better investment value than Leftwich right now IMHO.
New coach Jim Schwartz bent over backwards to make it known that Linehan's hire has absolutely no bearing on Culpepper's role with the team. I read multiple articles on this. Here's the Rotoworld post with link to article:

Lions coach Jim Schwartz downplayed the possibility that offensive coordinator Scott Linehan's history with Daunte Culpepper would lead to the quarterback remaining in Detroit.

"I don't want that connection," said Schwartz. "We were very clear that that connection isn't going to necessarily mean we're either keeping or not keeping Daunte." With a $2.5 million roster bonus due in late February, Culpepper's days in Detroit are over.

Schwartz has no reason to keep around a QB who was outplayed by Dan Orlovsky. I'm not saying it's impossible for Culpepper to restructure and stay, but the odds are very much against it with a new regime in town.

Serious question here: what did Culpepper show you in throwing to Calvin Johnson late last season that you're so excited about it? He was awful -- just as he's been for the past four years.

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I don't think there's any chance Culpepper is still on the Lions roster come spring (with a $2.5M roster bonus due plus a $2.5M salary and a new regime that has no allegiance to him), so I'm not really going to rank him as a guy with a starting job. If he's not starting in Detroit, I have no idea who is going to give him a job.

And I think Leftwich has a much better chance of landing a shot at a starting job than Culpepper does.

We'll see. I am intrigued by your comment about no allegiances in Detroit. I don't think any coach in the NFL has more allegiance to Culpepper than Linehan. IMHO, Culpepper put Linehan on the map with one of the best QB seasons in NFL history. I see him restructuring and staying based solely on that allegiance, but we'll see if Detroit gets better options. Also, it goes without saying no one should spend much for him. I'd imagine he can be picked up as a FA in most leagues and dumped just as easily if he doesn't re-up with Detroit. For that risk, and the possibility of throwing to Calvin in a Linehan scheme, he has better investment value than Leftwich right now IMHO.
New coach Jim Schwartz bent over backwards to make it known that Linehan's hire has absolutely no bearing on Culpepper's role with the team. I read multiple articles on this. Here's the Rotoworld post with link to article:

Lions coach Jim Schwartz downplayed the possibility that offensive coordinator Scott Linehan's history with Daunte Culpepper would lead to the quarterback remaining in Detroit.

"I don't want that connection," said Schwartz. "We were very clear that that connection isn't going to necessarily mean we're either keeping or not keeping Daunte." With a $2.5 million roster bonus due in late February, Culpepper's days in Detroit are over.

Schwartz has no reason to keep around a QB who was outplayed by Dan Orlovsky. I'm not saying it's impossible for Culpepper to restructure and stay, but the odds are very much against it with a new regime in town.

Serious question here: what did Culpepper show you in throwing to Calvin Johnson late last season that you're so excited about it? He was awful -- just as he's been for the past four years.

Two quick responses:

1. I would expect those comments from a HC when they have < 30 days to restructure a contract or release the player.

2. I saw nothing from Culpepper last season. However, he went from sitting on a couch watching Judge Judy all day, 30 pounds over his playing weight, to being an NFL starter aftedr 3 days of practice in week 9 on a winless team. I'm not sure that is how he should be judged vs. a possible 2009 role he can prepare for in a scheme he's familiar with. I also find it hard to judge his Miami time (9 months after triple lig) and 2 Oakland seasons on that brutal team and god awful coaching.

Again, we're talking about junk being temporarily removed from the trash can, not suggesting he's top 30 by any stretch.

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I don't think there's any chance Culpepper is still on the Lions roster come spring (with a $2.5M roster bonus due plus a $2.5M salary and a new regime that has no allegiance to him), so I'm not really going to rank him as a guy with a starting job. If he's not starting in Detroit, I have no idea who is going to give him a job.

And I think Leftwich has a much better chance of landing a shot at a starting job than Culpepper does.

We'll see. I am intrigued by your comment about no allegiances in Detroit. I don't think any coach in the NFL has more allegiance to Culpepper than Linehan. IMHO, Culpepper put Linehan on the map with one of the best QB seasons in NFL history. I see him restructuring and staying based solely on that allegiance, but we'll see if Detroit gets better options. Also, it goes without saying no one should spend much for him. I'd imagine he can be picked up as a FA in most leagues and dumped just as easily if he doesn't re-up with Detroit. For that risk, and the possibility of throwing to Calvin in a Linehan scheme, he has better investment value than Leftwich right now IMHO.
New coach Jim Schwartz bent over backwards to make it known that Linehan's hire has absolutely no bearing on Culpepper's role with the team. I read multiple articles on this. Here's the Rotoworld post with link to article:

Lions coach Jim Schwartz downplayed the possibility that offensive coordinator Scott Linehan's history with Daunte Culpepper would lead to the quarterback remaining in Detroit.

"I don't want that connection," said Schwartz. "We were very clear that that connection isn't going to necessarily mean we're either keeping or not keeping Daunte." With a $2.5 million roster bonus due in late February, Culpepper's days in Detroit are over.

Schwartz has no reason to keep around a QB who was outplayed by Dan Orlovsky. I'm not saying it's impossible for Culpepper to restructure and stay, but the odds are very much against it with a new regime in town.

Serious question here: what did Culpepper show you in throwing to Calvin Johnson late last season that you're so excited about it? He was awful -- just as he's been for the past four years.

Do you think Orlovsky is the leading candidate to be the starting QB next year?

Other than his end zone blunder he has shown more than C Pep and it sounds like Stanton is not a NFL QB. I would hope the Lions avoid drafting a QB high in this draft and start to accumulate some starting caliber players and look for a QB in next years draft.

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I don't think there's any chance Culpepper is still on the Lions roster come spring (with a $2.5M roster bonus due plus a $2.5M salary and a new regime that has no allegiance to him), so I'm not really going to rank him as a guy with a starting job. If he's not starting in Detroit, I have no idea who is going to give him a job.

And I think Leftwich has a much better chance of landing a shot at a starting job than Culpepper does.

We'll see. I am intrigued by your comment about no allegiances in Detroit. I don't think any coach in the NFL has more allegiance to Culpepper than Linehan. IMHO, Culpepper put Linehan on the map with one of the best QB seasons in NFL history. I see him restructuring and staying based solely on that allegiance, but we'll see if Detroit gets better options. Also, it goes without saying no one should spend much for him. I'd imagine he can be picked up as a FA in most leagues and dumped just as easily if he doesn't re-up with Detroit. For that risk, and the possibility of throwing to Calvin in a Linehan scheme, he has better investment value than Leftwich right now IMHO.
New coach Jim Schwartz bent over backwards to make it known that Linehan's hire has absolutely no bearing on Culpepper's role with the team. I read multiple articles on this. Here's the Rotoworld post with link to article:

Lions coach Jim Schwartz downplayed the possibility that offensive coordinator Scott Linehan's history with Daunte Culpepper would lead to the quarterback remaining in Detroit.

"I don't want that connection," said Schwartz. "We were very clear that that connection isn't going to necessarily mean we're either keeping or not keeping Daunte." With a $2.5 million roster bonus due in late February, Culpepper's days in Detroit are over.

Schwartz has no reason to keep around a QB who was outplayed by Dan Orlovsky. I'm not saying it's impossible for Culpepper to restructure and stay, but the odds are very much against it with a new regime in town.

Serious question here: what did Culpepper show you in throwing to Calvin Johnson late last season that you're so excited about it? He was awful -- just as he's been for the past four years.

Do you think Orlovsky is the leading candidate to be the starting QB next year?

Other than his end zone blunder he has shown more than C Pep and it sounds like Stanton is not a NFL QB. I would hope the Lions avoid drafting a QB high in this draft and start to accumulate some starting caliber players and look for a QB in next years draft.

Orlovsky is a free agent. I think Kitna is the favorite to start Week 1 right now. The former staff obviously didn't like Stanton, but the former staff was awful -- so it's tough to rely on their judgment.

I agree that the Lions shouldn't draft a QB at #1 overall though. There aren't any QBs worth it this year.

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Two quick responses:1. I would expect those comments from a HC when they have < 30 days to restructure a contract or release the player. 2. I saw nothing from Culpepper last season. However, he went from sitting on a couch watching Judge Judy all day, 30 pounds over his playing weight, to being an NFL starter aftedr 3 days of practice in week 9 on a winless team. I'm not sure that is how he should be judged vs. a possible 2009 role he can prepare for in a scheme he's familiar with. I also find it hard to judge his Miami time (9 months after triple lig) and 2 Oakland seasons on that brutal team and god awful coaching. Again, we're talking about junk being temporarily removed from the trash can, not suggesting he's top 30 by any stretch.

I watched Culpepper a couple of times last season. He's not going to be back with the Lions -- nor should he be. They're better off going with Kitna who has one year left on his contract and seeing once and for all if Stanton can play in a backup role. Just my .02 Edited by Fear & Loathing

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like this buy low-sell high segment--some valuable info there.

What do you think of Steve Smith's chances of maintaining his value? Delhomme was so awful against ARI (and Fox so dumb for abandoning his running game in favor of Jake) I'm worried about some sort of regime change knocking his value down. Delhomme sucks but he definitely locks onto Smith--what do you think are the chances they go in another direction and what would that do to his value?

Additionally, at what age would you look to sell that type of WR? How long Galloway played makes me think he could be around awhile, but for a guy who's primarily advantage is being a burner, when are they likely to lose their speed?

Delhomme has one more year left on his contract, and I'd be surprised if he isn't the starter again in '09. Smith loses some value due to instability at QB in 2010, but it's also possible that the next QB is better than Delhomme. To me, though, Smith is definitely Top-5 in talent at the position -- and possibly as high as Top-2 -- so he's almost certain to maintain value for the next few seasons.

Steve Smith is one of those players I'm constantly trying to acquire. I traded him a couple of years ago in a package for Westbrook, and I've been trying to get him back since. I'm sure I'll try again this offseason, probably with Westbrook as bait in a package deal.

:confused: Did you forget about the 07 fiasco? Smith almost became unstartable without Delhomme at QB. Granted those were some bad QBs chucking the ball, but if finding a legit QB was easy, all teams would have one.

I'm confused because you seem really down on Moore, McCown is a chump and Delhomme is near the end of his road and not worth the $ he is getting paid. How is Smith Certain to maintain his value? Smith hits 30 next year and it still remains to be seen how how well he holds up as he seems to be one of the more physical WRs. These WRs who still produce into their Mid-30 either seem to be the bigger type (TO) or ones who shy away from contact (Harrison, Mason). Smith is neither big nor does he shy away from contact.

Looking back at 07. In the 11 games Smith played where either Delhomme or Moore didn't start he finished with...

50 rec 474 yards and 2 TDs.

I like Smith, but I can't see him as a top 5 going forward due to his age, style of play and QB concerns.

That's not really the whole story. He was fine (though certainly not as good) without Delhomme. The big thing was he was horrible with David Carr, AKA "The Stud WR Killer".

In the 5 games that Carr played, Smith never had 50 yards receiving in a single one, and in three of them he had less than TWENTY yards receiving.

In the 8 games with Testeverde, Moore, and Weinke he had 51 catches for 562 yards and 2 TDs. Over a 16 game season those prorate out to 102 catches for 1124 yards and 4 TDs. Not great, but not awful considering the QBs and really the only thing lacking is the TDs, which are difficult to predict from year to year anyhow.

I'm willing to give people a pass when they play with David Carr. We've now seen two of the NFL's elite WRs (Andre Johnson and Steve Smith) be much worse with David Carr than they were with even mediocre to bad QBs like Schaub, Delhomme, Rosenfels, Moore, Testverde, and Weinke.

In fact, I don't think there's a QB in the NFL (even counting backups) that can kill a stud WR's numbers as badly as David Carr can.

Edited by FreeBaGeL

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I watched Culpepper a couple of times last season. He's not going to be back with the Lions -- nor should he be.

Scott Linehan: Starting Lions QB might be determined after preseason gamesby Tom Kowalski Wednesday January 28, 2009, 12:55 PMLions offensive coordinator Scott Linehan said today that he would be comfortable in naming a starting quarterback after competition in the preseason games. Linehan said he's talked to Daunte Culpepper, Jon Kitna and Drew Stanton but he made it clear the Lions don't have a frontrunner for the starting job. Not yet.Linehan coached Culpepper for several successful seasons in Minnesota, but Linehan said that doesn't necessarily mean Culpepper has an edge."In fairness to all the quarterbacks, we haven't really looked and done enough to say what we would or wouldn't do,'' Linehan said. "We've got to let it work itself out. I wouldn't make any assumptions.''Linehan, who said he's still in the process of evaluating the quarterbacks, brought up the fact that Atlanta held an open quarterback competition in preseason before settling on Matt Ryan, who went on to be the Rookie of the Year.

From a common sense perspective, I don't think it makes sense for Linehan to interact with Culpepper, and for him to be mentioned as a possible starter by a typically informed beat writer (Kowalski), if it is a foregone conclusion he's done with the team. Why not just cordially tell Culpepper to stay home and await his release? More is going on here than people assume, JMHO. I'd guess we'll know by Feb 27 in any event. :lmao:

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I was reading F&L's recent Buy Low/Sell High list and have a name I'd like to throw out there for opinions: Reggie Bush.

Are people out there looking to acquire him? It seems his value has hit a low, can he turn things around? IMO, he started year 1 with alot of promise (and expectations), but years 2 & 3 have ended with disappointment and on IR. On the other hand, he is still young (24?) and plays on an explosive offense.

In one league I'm in (no PPR for RB's) his owner is willing to give him up for a combo middling 2009 rook picks. I was a bit surprised by that.

Thoughts on Bush going forward?

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I was reading F&L's recent Buy Low/Sell High list and have a name I'd like to throw out there for opinions: Reggie Bush.Are people out there looking to acquire him? It seems his value has hit a low, can he turn things around? IMO, he started year 1 with alot of promise (and expectations), but years 2 & 3 have ended with disappointment and on IR. On the other hand, he is still young (24?) and plays on an explosive offense.In one league I'm in (no PPR for RB's) his owner is willing to give him up for a combo middling 2009 rook picks. I was a bit surprised by that.Thoughts on Bush going forward?

I personally believe that people are discounting him too much based on Pierre's performance at the end of the year. Reggie comes with **huge** risk, but the upside is there. A couple of thoughts...1) He was near or at the top of the RB scoring in PPR and non-PPR alike during the first several weeks of 2008, so he's certainly capable when healthy. 2) The Saints have a ton of money invested in this kid, and he sells tickets. He'll play if he's healthy.3) He just "feels" like a Sean Peyton player more than Pierre. Peyton likes his gimmicky plays and Reggie fits well in them. Sean's learning to "play ball" and see value in traditional NFL football, but he still seems to like his toys.Reggie is certainly not one of the "nucleus" guys that F&L touts, but he's got potential My thought is that owner's should hold, and buyer's should probably stay away, but I'd take him if I could get him for garbage.

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I was reading F&L's recent Buy Low/Sell High list and have a name I'd like to throw out there for opinions: Reggie Bush.Are people out there looking to acquire him? It seems his value has hit a low, can he turn things around? IMO, he started year 1 with alot of promise (and expectations), but years 2 & 3 have ended with disappointment and on IR. On the other hand, he is still young (24?) and plays on an explosive offense.In one league I'm in (no PPR for RB's) his owner is willing to give him up for a combo middling 2009 rook picks. I was a bit surprised by that.Thoughts on Bush going forward?

I like him as well in a ppr league. He's only going to get 150 carries or so but adding 70-80 catches is huge. He was the number one RB i believe before he got hurt this year. If the knee's feeling good, i think he's undervalued. Reggie says it wasnt a microfracture surgery but instead a cleanup with a few microfracture techiniques on a piece of torn cartilage. He was working out two weeks later so we will see. I thought he ran a lot better this year before getting hurt. Edited by fruity pebbles

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I noticed you did not include Jake Delhomme (also not Matt Moore) on your list. I was wondering what are your thought on either of these players. Any QB with Steve Smith to throw to has some fantasy value and the feeling I get is that Carolina is tired of Delhomme throwing INT's when they rae in must win games. Matt Moore has shown some promised before and I wonder if you think he wil get a shot at the starting job in training camp.

I don't think Matt Moore has any shot at the starting job in training camp. His late rookie season "success" has always been a bit overstated, coming, as it was, on the heels of Chris Weinke, David Carr, and Vinny Testaverde.

Worse, he imploded in training camp / pre-season action last year to the point where Carolina felt they had to go get Josh McCown because Moore wasn't ready to be the No. 2 guy.

I'm no Delhomme apologist, but Carolina was a contender with him. They'd struggle to reach .500 with Moore.

Of course he has a shot. If he didn't Carolina would cut him. I'm not sure why you feel the need to understate Moore's late rookie season success just because it came after a bunch a turds. The guy put up 2 Wins against 2 division champs and kept the game close against the cowboys.

Granted this camp/pre-season was disapointing, but he is still only 24 and has shown flashes on the field. McCown is a journeyman sub-par #2 QB with no upside. Just the thought that Moore has No chance to overtake McCown and adventually start is just crazy.

And of course Delhomme gave the team a better chance to win this year. He is a seasoned vet who makes top 10 dollars for his position while Moore was an undrafted FA with only 3 starts.

:towelwave:

OK, and I'm looking forward to seeing Chad Henne, Seneca Walllace, Dennis Dixon, and Colt Brennan take over the starting jobs in training camp too.

Are you talking just for 09 or the future in general? I think it is a bit early to dismiss Henne or Brennan from ever being NFL starters.

I wouldn't put anything on Moore being a starter in 09, but writing him off after 1 bad camp doesn't make sense.

I'm not trying to get short with you here or anything, but you quoted me so you should know the question. What I addressed was whether I believed Moore had any chance to unseat Delhomme in training camp this summer, and I said I believed he did not. You then extrapolated that into my saying that he was junk and will never have a future.

I do not believe Moore will start for the Panthers in Week 1 of 2009, nor do I believe any of the other guys I listed will unseat the starters this summer.

you're right, I guess I did read something wrong somewhere along the lines here.

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I was reading F&L's recent Buy Low/Sell High list and have a name I'd like to throw out there for opinions: Reggie Bush.

Are people out there looking to acquire him? It seems his value has hit a low, can he turn things around? IMO, he started year 1 with alot of promise (and expectations), but years 2 & 3 have ended with disappointment and on IR. On the other hand, he is still young (24?) and plays on an explosive offense.

In one league I'm in (no PPR for RB's) his owner is willing to give him up for a combo middling 2009 rook picks. I was a bit surprised by that.

Thoughts on Bush going forward?

I like him as well in a ppr league. He's only going to get 150 carries or so but adding 70-80 catches is huge. He was the number one RB i believe before he got hurt this year. If the knee's feeling good, i think he's undervalued. Reggie says it wasnt a microfracture surgery but instead a cleanup with a few microfracture techiniques on a piece of torn cartilage. He was working out two weeks later so we will see. I thought he ran a lot better this year before getting hurt.
I've always considered him overhyped, but I do think Bush's value really boils down to the bolded phrase: he's absolutely a worthwhile buy-low in full PPR leagues, but his value takes a major hit without PPR. I wouldn't touch him in a non-PPR league.

And Prankster is right: I don't consider him a nucleus guy. His value isn't reliable enough, his role is too unstable, his knee injuries too worrisome, and his future too cloudy.

Edited by Fear & Loathing

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I watched Culpepper a couple of times last season. He's not going to be back with the Lions -- nor should he be.

Scott Linehan: Starting Lions QB might be determined after preseason gamesby Tom Kowalski Wednesday January 28, 2009, 12:55 PMLions offensive coordinator Scott Linehan said today that he would be comfortable in naming a starting quarterback after competition in the preseason games. Linehan said he's talked to Daunte Culpepper, Jon Kitna and Drew Stanton but he made it clear the Lions don't have a frontrunner for the starting job. Not yet.Linehan coached Culpepper for several successful seasons in Minnesota, but Linehan said that doesn't necessarily mean Culpepper has an edge."In fairness to all the quarterbacks, we haven't really looked and done enough to say what we would or wouldn't do,'' Linehan said. "We've got to let it work itself out. I wouldn't make any assumptions.''Linehan, who said he's still in the process of evaluating the quarterbacks, brought up the fact that Atlanta held an open quarterback competition in preseason before settling on Matt Ryan, who went on to be the Rookie of the Year.

From a common sense perspective, I don't think it makes sense for Linehan to interact with Culpepper, and for him to be mentioned as a possible starter by a typically informed beat writer (Kowalski), if it is a foregone conclusion he's done with the team. Why not just cordially tell Culpepper to stay home and await his release? More is going on here than people assume, JMHO. I'd guess we'll know by Feb 27 in any event. :lmao:
We'll see. I still believe the Lions will cut him loose this spring, and I'll be surprised if he ever takes a snap for Detroit in 2009.

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