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As far as I'm concerned, Ben should have been the MVP. He made play after play on that last drive and led the Steelers to a TD. You can throw the raw stats out the window. Making plays when you have to make them late in games outweighs anything. That last drive was absolutely brilliant. The truly great QBs make plays when it matters. Ben did that.

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As far as I'm concerned, Ben should have been the MVP. He made play after play on that last drive and led the Steelers to a TD. You can throw the raw stats out the window. Making plays when you have to make them late in games outweighs anything. That last drive was absolutely brilliant. The truly great QBs make plays when it matters. Ben did that.

Agree with everything here except the MVP part. Holmes made play after play on that drive and throughout the game too. Roethlisberger is an outstanding QB and leader. Top 3 or 4 in the league for sure.

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what are your thoughts on Keenan Burton going into next season? Is it realistic to expect Holt to be cut?

I picked him up myself at end of season because I had room and someone I respect on here (I think Bloom but not sure) cited him as a possible sleeper. Didn't see him really do much to persuade me he is ready to explode next year though and I really doubt Holt will be cut.

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what are your thoughts on Keenan Burton going into next season? Is it realistic to expect Holt to be cut?

I picked him up myself at end of season because I had room and someone I respect on here (I think Bloom but not sure) cited him as a possible sleeper. Didn't see him really do much to persuade me he is ready to explode next year though and I really doubt Holt will be cut.
I think Holt is dying to get out of St. Louis, he's clearly not the player he once was, he holds a $10M cap number in this the last year on his contract, and there's a new coaching staff in town. Does that mean he gets a fresh start in St. Louis or his walking papers instead? The Rams aren't in great cap condition and have some key defenders to re-sign, so I'd say it's at least 50/50 that Holt will be cut to save money. Burton is a grab-bag receiver to me. Seems like he might be injury-prone, will have to learn a new offense, and isn't a stud talent; on the other hand, he could get an opportunity at significant playing time if Holt leaves. In other words, he's a dime a dozen. Edited by Fear & Loathing

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I'm interested in your thoughts on Garcia and Leftwich for 2009. As mentioned above, teams like NYJ, MIN, TB, KC, CHI, and if McNabb leaves, PHI, might look outside their current rosters for a starter.

I'm not sure if Garcia stays put or if they are ready to let him move on. If so, could there be a Philly redux? I've read team brass doesn't see Kolb as ready to take over.

Leftwich ought to have some suitors.

So.. 50/50 for each of these guys to start somewhere? 70/30? 30/70? Thoughts?

CP, my man. What's up?

Garcia seems like a good fit in Minnesota. I guess staying in Tampa or moving on to Philly if McNabb is dealt are also possibilities -- although McNabb's recent comments about wanting to retire in Philly seem to make that a long shot. Tampa should be rebuilding on offense, but we'll see. I don't care much for Garcia in Dyansty leagues b/c he's almost 40-years-old, can't get through a season healthy, and isn't a weekly asset even when he does play.

Leftwich is interesting to me, but then again I've always been a believer. I could definitely see him getting his career back on track this offseason, but he's more reliant than most QBs on going to an offense that suits him. It wouldn't surprise me in the least to see him work his way into a starting job in '09 and keep it for several years. I guess it would also be unsurprising if the whole league turned up their nose at him once again.

Edited by Fear & Loathing

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F&L -What's your take on Roy Williams, Hines Ward and Torry Holt? I have to make a decision on these 3 (non-PPR) and am trying to figure out which 1 or 2 to keep. H Ward seems to have the most stability, Roy has the most upside, Holt has the most downside (if he's just completely done).Just curious how you break these guys down.

I agree with your take on all 3. Tough to make a decision right now without knowing Holt's 2009 team, Ward's knee status, and T.O.'s Dallas future.

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i really dont like the Slaton rating.... especially seeing CJ at like #4 and Forte also High. Do people forget what he did this past year or something??? Even if they bring another back in SEE Rudi Johnson.. I still see him putting up top ATLEAST top 15 numbers at his Position. This year he was 8th. I hope he keeps top 10 up. But saying he will do it yearly is saying too much from just seeing one season.

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CP, my man. What's up?

What's up? Trying to scoop up Pierre Thomas wherever I can. SHHHH! It's a secret! I've got him in 5 of my 10 dynasties now.(I hope this turns out better than my Selvin Young crusade last year. LOL)Thanks for the Garcia / Leftwich reply. Since my post, I've dumped Garcia where I've owned him, and have added Leftwich in a couple leagues. I agree there may be potential there, especially if Favre moves on and he gets to throw to Cotch / Coles / Keller.Later my friend.CP Edited by Couch Potato

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Burton made some sick catches in the preseason that caught my eye. The problem with him is that he plays a physical brand of football and he doesn't have the body to survive the beating. Apparently teams were amazed when they saw his x-rays at the combine because he had suffered so many broken bones.

Good player, but not sure how he fits in. Could be a Housh type if everything breaks right. I might draft him late, but I wouldn't actively pursue him.

Edited by EBF

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i really dont like the Slaton rating.... especially seeing CJ at like #4 and Forte also High. Do people forget what he did this past year or something??? Even if they bring another back in SEE Rudi Johnson.. I still see him putting up top ATLEAST top 15 numbers at his Position. This year he was 8th. I hope he keeps top 10 up. But saying he will do it yearly is saying too much from just seeing one season.

You're not alone. This has been the most common complaint about the rankings for the past couple of months.But that's OK. I used to hear the exact same things about Willie Parker when I refused to put him in the top tiers. And I liked Willie Parker. But sometimes you realize a player isn't quite as good as everyone else thinks he is . . . I wouldn't even try to compare Slaton's rookie season to Johnson's. Slaton ran in a dream one-cut offense with a successful passing game opening up the running lanes. Johnson ran against 8- and 9-man fronts for most of the season. One of the big differences between Forte and Slaton is that Forte will remain the bell cow while Slaton will likely share carries with a bigger back. Once Slaton starts losing short-yardage and goal-line carries -- and he will -- then he's, what, Willie Parker?

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i really dont like the Slaton rating.... especially seeing CJ at like #4 and Forte also High. Do people forget what he did this past year or something??? Even if they bring another back in SEE Rudi Johnson.. I still see him putting up top ATLEAST top 15 numbers at his Position. This year he was 8th. I hope he keeps top 10 up. But saying he will do it yearly is saying too much from just seeing one season.

You're not alone. This has been the most common complaint about the rankings for the past couple of months.

But that's OK. I used to hear the exact same things about Willie Parker when I refused to put him in the top tiers. And I liked Willie Parker. But sometimes you realize a player isn't quite as good as everyone else thinks he is . . .

I wouldn't even try to compare Slaton's rookie season to Johnson's. Slaton ran in a dream one-cut offense with a successful passing game opening up the running lanes. Johnson ran against 8- and 9-man fronts for most of the season.

One of the big differences between Forte and Slaton is that Forte will remain the bell cow while Slaton will likely share carries with a bigger back. Once Slaton starts losing short-yardage and goal-line carries -- and he will -- then he's, what, Willie Parker?

i wouldn't say that. Slaton is a very good receiver out of the backfield. Parker can't catch period.

So unlike Parker, Slaton will be on the field on most 3rd downs. And my guess is he'll still get some goal line/short yardage carries, just not as much as he got this season. I'm not so sure that the Texans even bring in a RB for goal line carries. The Texans may already have that goal line RB on their roster, Chris Brown is 6'3, 220lbs and he's still under contract for next year. He was injured all last year. The Texans also pass on the goal line more often than other teams which makes sense considering they have a smart QB, stud WR, good TE, and good receiving RB.

Edited by awesomeness

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i really dont like the Slaton rating.... especially seeing CJ at like #4 and Forte also High. Do people forget what he did this past year or something??? Even if they bring another back in SEE Rudi Johnson.. I still see him putting up top ATLEAST top 15 numbers at his Position. This year he was 8th. I hope he keeps top 10 up. But saying he will do it yearly is saying too much from just seeing one season.

You're not alone. This has been the most common complaint about the rankings for the past couple of months.

But that's OK. I used to hear the exact same things about Willie Parker when I refused to put him in the top tiers. And I liked Willie Parker. But sometimes you realize a player isn't quite as good as everyone else thinks he is . . .

I wouldn't even try to compare Slaton's rookie season to Johnson's. Slaton ran in a dream one-cut offense with a successful passing game opening up the running lanes. Johnson ran against 8- and 9-man fronts for most of the season.

One of the big differences between Forte and Slaton is that Forte will remain the bell cow while Slaton will likely share carries with a bigger back. Once Slaton starts losing short-yardage and goal-line carries -- and he will -- then he's, what, Willie Parker?

i wouldn't say that. Slaton is a very good receiver out of the backfield. Parker can't catch period.

So unlike Parker, Slaton will be on the field on most 3rd downs. And my guess is he'll still get some goal line/short yardage carries, just not as much as he got this season. I'm not so sure that the Texans even bring in a RB for goal line carries. The Texans may already have that goal line RB on their roster, Chris Brown is 6'3, 220lbs and he's still under contract for next year. He was injured all last year. The Texans also pass on the goal line more often than other teams which makes sense considering they have a smart QB, stud WR, good TE, and good receiving RB.

In the Texans games that I watched this season, they ran a ton at the goal-line. Slaton got stuffed often and lost quite a few short-yardage carries to Ahman Green. Slaton was ineffective in short-yardage, and the Texans know this.

I agree that Slaton is a much, much better pass catcher than Parker, but I think Parker is a more explosive runner. Either way, I believe they're both the type of back that will struggle to maintain stable value in the future -- we know it about Parker because his strengths and weaknesses have been exposed by his time in the league. Slaton's strengths and weaknesses are not laid out in the open like FWP's because he was a rookie -- and rookie RBs coming off a successful first season can do no wrong in the eyes of fantasy owners.

Edited by Fear & Loathing

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i really dont like the Slaton rating.... especially seeing CJ at like #4 and Forte also High. Do people forget what he did this past year or something??? Even if they bring another back in SEE Rudi Johnson.. I still see him putting up top ATLEAST top 15 numbers at his Position. This year he was 8th. I hope he keeps top 10 up. But saying he will do it yearly is saying too much from just seeing one season.

You're not alone. This has been the most common complaint about the rankings for the past couple of months.

But that's OK. I used to hear the exact same things about Willie Parker when I refused to put him in the top tiers. And I liked Willie Parker. But sometimes you realize a player isn't quite as good as everyone else thinks he is . . .

I wouldn't even try to compare Slaton's rookie season to Johnson's. Slaton ran in a dream one-cut offense with a successful passing game opening up the running lanes. Johnson ran against 8- and 9-man fronts for most of the season.

One of the big differences between Forte and Slaton is that Forte will remain the bell cow while Slaton will likely share carries with a bigger back. Once Slaton starts losing short-yardage and goal-line carries -- and he will -- then he's, what, Willie Parker?

i wouldn't say that. Slaton is a very good receiver out of the backfield. Parker can't catch period.

So unlike Parker, Slaton will be on the field on most 3rd downs. And my guess is he'll still get some goal line/short yardage carries, just not as much as he got this season. I'm not so sure that the Texans even bring in a RB for goal line carries. The Texans may already have that goal line RB on their roster, Chris Brown is 6'3, 220lbs and he's still under contract for next year. He was injured all last year. The Texans also pass on the goal line more often than other teams which makes sense considering they have a smart QB, stud WR, good TE, and good receiving RB.

In the Texans games that I watched this season, they ran a ton at the goal-line. Slaton got stuffed often and lost quite a few short-yardage carries to Ahman Green. Slaton was ineffective in short-yardage, and the Texans know this.

I agree that Slaton is a much, much better pass catcher than Parker, but I think Parker is a more explosive runner. Either way, I believe they're both the type of back that will struggle to maintain stable value in the future -- we know it about Parker because his strengths and weaknesses have been exposed by his time in the league. Slaton's strengths and weaknesses are not laid out in the open like FWP's because he was a rookie -- and rookie RBs coming off a successful first season can do no wrong in the eyes of fantasy owners.

Fair enough.

Though i don't own him in any fantasy leagues, i just think he has shown that he is more talented than Willie Parker.

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i see where your coming from a bit. But Kubiak thinks this kid is "special",remember.? It has to mean something. He does make catches which helped his ranking a good bit. i guess well see..... I guess slaton does belong in the "Undervalued players for next year" thread.... I posted him there a few weeks ago.

Time will tell.

Id love to see him break out next year from all these people saying he cant carry a full load...

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i mean i can understand him being a little lower than Johnson and Forte.. But not that low..

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i really dont like the Slaton rating.... especially seeing CJ at like #4 and Forte also High. Do people forget what he did this past year or something??? Even if they bring another back in SEE Rudi Johnson.. I still see him putting up top ATLEAST top 15 numbers at his Position. This year he was 8th. I hope he keeps top 10 up. But saying he will do it yearly is saying too much from just seeing one season.

You're not alone. This has been the most common complaint about the rankings for the past couple of months.

But that's OK. I used to hear the exact same things about Willie Parker when I refused to put him in the top tiers. And I liked Willie Parker. But sometimes you realize a player isn't quite as good as everyone else thinks he is . . .

I wouldn't even try to compare Slaton's rookie season to Johnson's. Slaton ran in a dream one-cut offense with a successful passing game opening up the running lanes. Johnson ran against 8- and 9-man fronts for most of the season.

One of the big differences between Forte and Slaton is that Forte will remain the bell cow while Slaton will likely share carries with a bigger back. Once Slaton starts losing short-yardage and goal-line carries -- and he will -- then he's, what, Willie Parker?

i wouldn't say that. Slaton is a very good receiver out of the backfield. Parker can't catch period.

So unlike Parker, Slaton will be on the field on most 3rd downs. And my guess is he'll still get some goal line/short yardage carries, just not as much as he got this season. I'm not so sure that the Texans even bring in a RB for goal line carries. The Texans may already have that goal line RB on their roster, Chris Brown is 6'3, 220lbs and he's still under contract for next year. He was injured all last year. The Texans also pass on the goal line more often than other teams which makes sense considering they have a smart QB, stud WR, good TE, and good receiving RB.

In the Texans games that I watched this season, they ran a ton at the goal-line. Slaton got stuffed often and lost quite a few short-yardage carries to Ahman Green. Slaton was ineffective in short-yardage, and the Texans know this.

I agree that Slaton is a much, much better pass catcher than Parker, but I think Parker is a more explosive runner. Either way, I believe they're both the type of back that will struggle to maintain stable value in the future -- we know it about Parker because his strengths and weaknesses have been exposed by his time in the league. Slaton's strengths and weaknesses are not laid out in the open like FWP's because he was a rookie -- and rookie RBs coming off a successful first season can do no wrong in the eyes of fantasy owners.

Fair enough.

Though i don't own him in any fantasy leagues, i just think he has shown that he is more talented than Willie Parker.

Wow. So Parker's impressive 2006 season is miles behind in the rear view mirror? I'll bet you a six-pack of Fat Tire Ale that Slaton never has a season as productive as the 1,716 yards / 16 TDs that FWP posted in 2006.

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i really dont like the Slaton rating.... especially seeing CJ at like #4 and Forte also High. Do people forget what he did this past year or something??? Even if they bring another back in SEE Rudi Johnson.. I still see him putting up top ATLEAST top 15 numbers at his Position. This year he was 8th. I hope he keeps top 10 up. But saying he will do it yearly is saying too much from just seeing one season.

You're not alone. This has been the most common complaint about the rankings for the past couple of months.

But that's OK. I used to hear the exact same things about Willie Parker when I refused to put him in the top tiers. And I liked Willie Parker. But sometimes you realize a player isn't quite as good as everyone else thinks he is . . .

I wouldn't even try to compare Slaton's rookie season to Johnson's. Slaton ran in a dream one-cut offense with a successful passing game opening up the running lanes. Johnson ran against 8- and 9-man fronts for most of the season.

One of the big differences between Forte and Slaton is that Forte will remain the bell cow while Slaton will likely share carries with a bigger back. Once Slaton starts losing short-yardage and goal-line carries -- and he will -- then he's, what, Willie Parker?

i wouldn't say that. Slaton is a very good receiver out of the backfield. Parker can't catch period.

So unlike Parker, Slaton will be on the field on most 3rd downs. And my guess is he'll still get some goal line/short yardage carries, just not as much as he got this season. I'm not so sure that the Texans even bring in a RB for goal line carries. The Texans may already have that goal line RB on their roster, Chris Brown is 6'3, 220lbs and he's still under contract for next year. He was injured all last year. The Texans also pass on the goal line more often than other teams which makes sense considering they have a smart QB, stud WR, good TE, and good receiving RB.

In the Texans games that I watched this season, they ran a ton at the goal-line. Slaton got stuffed often and lost quite a few short-yardage carries to Ahman Green. Slaton was ineffective in short-yardage, and the Texans know this.

I agree that Slaton is a much, much better pass catcher than Parker, but I think Parker is a more explosive runner. Either way, I believe they're both the type of back that will struggle to maintain stable value in the future -- we know it about Parker because his strengths and weaknesses have been exposed by his time in the league. Slaton's strengths and weaknesses are not laid out in the open like FWP's because he was a rookie -- and rookie RBs coming off a successful first season can do no wrong in the eyes of fantasy owners.

Fair enough.

Though i don't own him in any fantasy leagues, i just think he has shown that he is more talented than Willie Parker.

Wow. So Parker's impressive 2006 season is miles behind in the rear view mirror? I'll bet you a six-pack of Fat Tire Ale that Slaton never has a season as productive as the 1,716 yards / 16 TDs that FWP posted in 2006.
Last year Slaton had 1,659 yards and 10 TDs. And Slaton had 50 less touches than Parker had in '08. I can easily see Slaton surpassing 1,716 yards, but in a ZBS scheme (containing a smaller offensive line) it's highly unlikely he'll ever sniff 16 TDs.

Whether or not Slaton's peak season is as good as Parker's peak season, i still think Slaton is the more talented back and will have better numbers by the time both of their careers are over.

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what are your thoughts on Keenan Burton going into next season? Is it realistic to expect Holt to be cut?

I picked him up myself at end of season because I had room and someone I respect on here (I think Bloom but not sure) cited him as a possible sleeper. Didn't see him really do much to persuade me he is ready to explode next year though and I really doubt Holt will be cut.

what are your thoughts on Keenan Burton going into next season? Is it realistic to expect Holt to be cut?

I picked him up myself at end of season because I had room and someone I respect on here (I think Bloom but not sure) cited him as a possible sleeper. Didn't see him really do much to persuade me he is ready to explode next year though and I really doubt Holt will be cut.
I think Holt is dying to get out of St. Louis, he's clearly not the player he once was, he holds a $10M cap number in this the last year on his contract, and there's a new coaching staff in town. Does that mean he gets a fresh start in St. Louis or his walking papers instead? The Rams aren't in great cap condition and have some key defenders to re-sign, so I'd say it's at least 50/50 that Holt will be cut to save money. Burton is a grab-bag receiver to me. Seems like he might be injury-prone, will have to learn a new offense, and isn't a stud talent; on the other hand, he could get an opportunity at significant playing time if Holt leaves. In other words, he's a dime a dozen.

Burton made some sick catches in the preseason that caught my eye. The problem with him is that he plays a physical brand of football and he doesn't have the body to survive the beating. Apparently teams were amazed when they saw his x-rays at the combine because he had suffered so many broken bones. Good player, but not sure how he fits in. Could be a Housh type if everything breaks right. I might draft him late, but I wouldn't actively pursue him.

Thanks for the replies. I picked him up as a throw-in to another trade, will probably hold onto him and see how things break with Holt. Edited by EthnicFury

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i see where your coming from a bit. But Kubiak thinks this kid is "special",remember.? It has to mean something. He does make catches which helped his ranking a good bit. i guess well see..... I guess slaton does belong in the "Undervalued players for next year" thread.... I posted him there a few weeks ago. Time will tell.Id love to see him break out next year from all these people saying he cant carry a full load...

I did not get to see a lot of the Texans but when I did what REALLY impressed me was the leg drive and power of Slaton. Whenever he came into contact his leg drive would blow through weak arm tackles and he kept moving forward in tougher situations. Maybe I saw Slaton in his best moments but came away very surprised with the power he ran with.

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Who of Addai and Grant do you see moving up a tier; or are they more likely to drop? Are you rolling the dice on Ronnie Brown or do you have some confidence that he will stay a top 10-15 RB?

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i really dont like the Slaton rating.... especially seeing CJ at like #4 and Forte also High. Do people forget what he did this past year or something??? Even if they bring another back in SEE Rudi Johnson.. I still see him putting up top ATLEAST top 15 numbers at his Position. This year he was 8th. I hope he keeps top 10 up. But saying he will do it yearly is saying too much from just seeing one season.

You're not alone. This has been the most common complaint about the rankings for the past couple of months.

But that's OK. I used to hear the exact same things about Willie Parker when I refused to put him in the top tiers. And I liked Willie Parker. But sometimes you realize a player isn't quite as good as everyone else thinks he is . . .

I wouldn't even try to compare Slaton's rookie season to Johnson's. Slaton ran in a dream one-cut offense with a successful passing game opening up the running lanes. Johnson ran against 8- and 9-man fronts for most of the season.

One of the big differences between Forte and Slaton is that Forte will remain the bell cow while Slaton will likely share carries with a bigger back. Once Slaton starts losing short-yardage and goal-line carries -- and he will -- then he's, what, Willie Parker?

i wouldn't say that. Slaton is a very good receiver out of the backfield. Parker can't catch period.

So unlike Parker, Slaton will be on the field on most 3rd downs. And my guess is he'll still get some goal line/short yardage carries, just not as much as he got this season. I'm not so sure that the Texans even bring in a RB for goal line carries. The Texans may already have that goal line RB on their roster, Chris Brown is 6'3, 220lbs and he's still under contract for next year. He was injured all last year. The Texans also pass on the goal line more often than other teams which makes sense considering they have a smart QB, stud WR, good TE, and good receiving RB.

Too bad he runs like he's 5'6", 175lbs.

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i really dont like the Slaton rating.... especially seeing CJ at like #4 and Forte also High. Do people forget what he did this past year or something??? Even if they bring another back in SEE Rudi Johnson.. I still see him putting up top ATLEAST top 15 numbers at his Position. This year he was 8th. I hope he keeps top 10 up. But saying he will do it yearly is saying too much from just seeing one season.

You're not alone. This has been the most common complaint about the rankings for the past couple of months.

But that's OK. I used to hear the exact same things about Willie Parker when I refused to put him in the top tiers. And I liked Willie Parker. But sometimes you realize a player isn't quite as good as everyone else thinks he is . . .

I wouldn't even try to compare Slaton's rookie season to Johnson's. Slaton ran in a dream one-cut offense with a successful passing game opening up the running lanes. Johnson ran against 8- and 9-man fronts for most of the season.

One of the big differences between Forte and Slaton is that Forte will remain the bell cow while Slaton will likely share carries with a bigger back. Once Slaton starts losing short-yardage and goal-line carries -- and he will -- then he's, what, Willie Parker?

i wouldn't say that. Slaton is a very good receiver out of the backfield. Parker can't catch period.

So unlike Parker, Slaton will be on the field on most 3rd downs. And my guess is he'll still get some goal line/short yardage carries, just not as much as he got this season. I'm not so sure that the Texans even bring in a RB for goal line carries. The Texans may already have that goal line RB on their roster, Chris Brown is 6'3, 220lbs and he's still under contract for next year. He was injured all last year. The Texans also pass on the goal line more often than other teams which makes sense considering they have a smart QB, stud WR, good TE, and good receiving RB.

In the Texans games that I watched this season, they ran a ton at the goal-line. Slaton got stuffed often and lost quite a few short-yardage carries to Ahman Green. Slaton was ineffective in short-yardage, and the Texans know this.
Really, I thought he showed surprising strength and balance in short yardage - that I never jnew he had after watching him in college. I saw him gain yardage after contact and bounce off defenders consistently. I agree that Houston likely brings in a bigger back to take some of the pounding off Slaton, which will lead to less gola-line looks (and like you I'm still not ready to annoint him a top 10 dynasty back), but I do not agree that he cannot handle short yardage duties if/when called upon.

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what are your thoughts on Keenan Burton going into next season? Is it realistic to expect Holt to be cut?

I picked him up myself at end of season because I had room and someone I respect on here (I think Bloom but not sure) cited him as a possible sleeper. Didn't see him really do much to persuade me he is ready to explode next year though and I really doubt Holt will be cut.

what are your thoughts on Keenan Burton going into next season? Is it realistic to expect Holt to be cut?

I picked him up myself at end of season because I had room and someone I respect on here (I think Bloom but not sure) cited him as a possible sleeper. Didn't see him really do much to persuade me he is ready to explode next year though and I really doubt Holt will be cut.
I think Holt is dying to get out of St. Louis, he's clearly not the player he once was, he holds a $10M cap number in this the last year on his contract, and there's a new coaching staff in town. Does that mean he gets a fresh start in St. Louis or his walking papers instead? The Rams aren't in great cap condition and have some key defenders to re-sign, so I'd say it's at least 50/50 that Holt will be cut to save money. Burton is a grab-bag receiver to me. Seems like he might be injury-prone, will have to learn a new offense, and isn't a stud talent; on the other hand, he could get an opportunity at significant playing time if Holt leaves. In other words, he's a dime a dozen.

Burton made some sick catches in the preseason that caught my eye. The problem with him is that he plays a physical brand of football and he doesn't have the body to survive the beating. Apparently teams were amazed when they saw his x-rays at the combine because he had suffered so many broken bones. Good player, but not sure how he fits in. Could be a Housh type if everything breaks right. I might draft him late, but I wouldn't actively pursue him.

Thanks for the replies. I picked him up as a throw-in to another trade, will probably hold onto him and see how things break with Holt.
Another wrinkle to add to the Burton value equation here is what STL does in the draft. STL talk radio and some mocks I've seen on more than one occasion have spotlighted Crabtree as a possibility for STL as a replacement for Holt. Obviously it is a lot of conjecture at this point, but that'd likely dent Burton's value as well.I think things need to break (or not break, in Burton's case) just right for him to see an up tick in value.

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Really, I thought he showed surprising strength and balance in short yardage - that I never jnew he had after watching him in college. I saw him gain yardage after contact and bounce off defenders consistently. I agree that Houston likely brings in a bigger back to take some of the pounding off Slaton, which will lead to less gola-line looks (and like you I'm still not ready to annoint him a top 10 dynasty back), but I do not agree that he cannot handle short yardage duties if/when called upon.

I was surprised by his power in the open space, but I thought he failed way too often in short-yardage and went down much too easily in tight spaces. And I think the Texans know short-yardage is not his strength.

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I see you have Westbrook as the 12th ranked RB.

I play in a nonPPR league. With the announcement that he may need knee surgery, would you still have him ranked that high?

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I see you have Westbrook as the 12th ranked RB.I play in a nonPPR league. With the announcement that he may need knee surgery, would you still have him ranked that high?

I may move him down in the next rankings, but I'm more concerned about the Eagles adding a big back and possibly losing both offensive tackles than I am about his minor knee surgery. Needless to say, you should dock his value in non-PPR leagues.

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What I am looking for is the guys like Ryan Grant of last year. He should have been sold during the offseason (even after the draft since GB didn't really take a RB that would challenge him). On the "buy low" side, I would say someone like Calvin Johnson, Roddy White, or Chris Johnson. Even a Thomas Jones (who could have been had for a song and was very valuable in start 3 RB leagues).

After the 2003 season, I had Julius Jones and Kevin Jones on one of my dynasty rosters. Both of those guys are near worthless in FF leagues right now, but that wasn't the case at the time. They were consensus top 3-4 rookie picks who had shown serious flashes of talent during their rookie seasons. Both guys were ranked as consensus top 10 dynasty RBs. Should I have sold high? Of course, but it's a lot tougher to make that call when you're the one sitting there with two 22 year old RBs who look like future stars. You tend to want to keep guys like that. How was I to know that they had both already peaked?
Maybe but the following years showed the same trend. RB aren't reliable and rookies even less. Trading rookie RB who performed well in their first season would reward you more often then not IMO. Of course there is a few exception. (ADP, MJD). Not sure who is the exception in this year class but its likely a few of them have already peaked.
I don't disagree.

The flipside is that you might want to buy rookie RBs who didn't perform well in their first season assuming that you have faith in their talent.

Opportunity is a huge component of success. If you look at this year's top three rookie RBs, one thing that jumps out is that all of them stepped into a great opportunity. Forte only had to compete with a broken down Kevin Jones and a mediocre Adrian Peterson. Slaton only had to compete with a broken down Ahman Green and an injured Chris Brown. Chris Johnson only had to compete with a mediocre (or worse) LenDale White and a draft bust Chris Henry. These three rookies all had clear paths to significant immediate playing time, which allowed them to put up some stats and accumulate hype.

Then look at at Jonathan Stewart, Felix Jones, and Tashard Choice. All of these guys played well when given opportunities, but none of them had a clear path to significant immediate playing time. Stewart had to compete with DeAngelo Williams. Felix Jones and Tashard Choice had to compete with Marion Barber. These three rookies all flashed intriguing talent, but they didn't produce consistently useful FF numbers and were thus irrelevant in many leagues.

What if you flipped the situations? What if Tashard Choice was on the Texans, Felix Jones was on the Titans, and Jonathan Stewart was on the Bears? What if Chris Johnson and Steve Slaton were on the Cowboys and Matt Forte was on the Panthers? My guess is that people would be very high on Choice, Felix, and Stewart. People would be intrigued by Slaton, CJ, and Forte, but they wouldn't rank them as elite dynasty backs. Why? Well, it's a matter of awareness.

You can think of a player like Felix Jones or Jonathan Stewart as hidden. They played well, but their value remains hidden because they didn't get enough opportunities to make their talent obvious. On the flipside, Matt Forte, Chris Johnson, and Steve Slaton are exposed. They played well and got enough opportunities to expose their talent, so their value is no longer hidden.

In general, an exposed player is more likely to be overvalued than a hidden player. Look at Anthony Thomas. He was a mediocre talent who landed in a talent void and produced a string of decent games. During that same rookie season, Deuce McAllister was sitting on the bench behind Ricky Williams. Hindsight tells us that Deuce was clearly the more talented back, but A-Train was higher on everyone's board after their first year in the league.

One of the dirty little secrets of this hobby is that virtually any RB on an NFL roster can produce decent stats if he gets 15-20 touches per game. Ladell Betts, Reuben Droughns, Justin Fargas, Chester Taylor, Mewelde Moore, Peyton Hillis, Derrick Ward, Pierre Thomas, etc, etc, etc. Yet whenever a rookie puts up decent stats in a starting role, he's hailed as a top 10 dynasty back. It happens literally every year around here. Sometimes it's deserved (ADP, LT) and sometimes it's not (Julius, KJ, A-Train). The problem is that all of these instantly productive backs accumulate mega hype and are picked in the top 20 of dynasty drafts after their rookie season. There's no margin for error when you take them that high. You're paying full price for the upside without factoring in the risk.

The beauty of rookie "busts" like Shaun Alexander, Larry Johnson, Deuce McAllister, and DeAngelo Williams is that you can get the same type of talent at a reduced cost simply because their lack of opportunities keeps their value hidden. I think Jonathan Stewart is the most talented RB in this draft class, but you can get him for a fraction of the cost of Chris Johnson. I think it's entirely possible that Felix Jones is better than Steve Slaton, but his price tag is much lower. I think Rashard Mendenhall might be better than Matt Forte, but you'd be laughed out of the room if you made that trade.

I'm not opposed to paying a premium for an instant star like Adrian Peterson or Eddie Royal. Sometimes those guys are the real deal, but often times you can find players with similar ability and a lower price tag. It's usually these hidden players who offer the best risk/reward proposition.

Just bumping this so it doesn't get buried, because there is some really sound advice/obseervations here.

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Really, I thought he showed surprising strength and balance in short yardage - that I never jnew he had after watching him in college. I saw him gain yardage after contact and bounce off defenders consistently. I agree that Houston likely brings in a bigger back to take some of the pounding off Slaton, which will lead to less gola-line looks (and like you I'm still not ready to annoint him a top 10 dynasty back), but I do not agree that he cannot handle short yardage duties if/when called upon.

I was surprised by his power in the open space, but I thought he failed way too often in short-yardage and went down much too easily in tight spaces. And I think the Texans know short-yardage is not his strength.
Slaton undoubtedly seems to be a player that people can't get a handle on. Watched every Texans game but one, and his ability to fight for yardage was impressive; numerous times he'd be hit early and still have the toughness and drive to get 3-8 yards out of a play. Moreover, he's patient behind his blockers, and in a system built for his success. Something about Johnson, however, in terms of red zone looks:Johnson 39White 47People often downgrade Slaton because he might have someone come in that steals some goal line carries. Johnson already does. You really have to question whether he'll ever be in a situation where he isn't losing scoring chances to this sort of degree, particularly if White performs well in a contract year in 09. We laugh at him, but White still put up 3.9 a carry with 15 TDs. Johnson may find himself pigeonholed.

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Really, I thought he showed surprising strength and balance in short yardage - that I never jnew he had after watching him in college. I saw him gain yardage after contact and bounce off defenders consistently. I agree that Houston likely brings in a bigger back to take some of the pounding off Slaton, which will lead to less gola-line looks (and like you I'm still not ready to annoint him a top 10 dynasty back), but I do not agree that he cannot handle short yardage duties if/when called upon.

I was surprised by his power in the open space, but I thought he failed way too often in short-yardage and went down much too easily in tight spaces. And I think the Texans know short-yardage is not his strength.
Slaton undoubtedly seems to be a player that people can't get a handle on. Watched every Texans game but one, and his ability to fight for yardage was impressive; numerous times he'd be hit early and still have the toughness and drive to get 3-8 yards out of a play. Moreover, he's patient behind his blockers, and in a system built for his success.

Something about Johnson, however, in terms of red zone looks:

Johnson 39

White 47

People often downgrade Slaton because he might have someone come in that steals some goal line carries. Johnson already does. You really have to question whether he'll ever be in a situation where he isn't losing scoring chances to this sort of degree, particularly if White performs well in a contract year in 09. We laugh at him, but White still put up 3.9 a carry with 15 TDs. Johnson may find himself pigeonholed.

How would the red zone looks break down if Ahman Green wasn't injured half the season?

Johnson is one of the most talented players in the league. I'm not worried at all about him getting pigeon-holed. He is the Titans offense.

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CP, my man. What's up?

What's up? Trying to scoop up Pierre Thomas wherever I can. SHHHH! It's a secret! I've got him in 5 of my 10 dynasties now.(I hope this turns out better than my Selvin Young crusade last year. LOL)Thanks for the Garcia / Leftwich reply. Since my post, I've dumped Garcia where I've owned him, and have added Leftwich in a couple leagues. I agree there may be potential there, especially if Favre moves on and he gets to throw to Cotch / Coles / Keller.Later my friend.CP
I am not a believer in Leftwich. I think Garcia is more likely to have a good 2009 than Leftwich.

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CP, my man. What's up?

What's up? Trying to scoop up Pierre Thomas wherever I can. SHHHH! It's a secret! I've got him in 5 of my 10 dynasties now.(I hope this turns out better than my Selvin Young crusade last year. LOL)Thanks for the Garcia / Leftwich reply. Since my post, I've dumped Garcia where I've owned him, and have added Leftwich in a couple leagues. I agree there may be potential there, especially if Favre moves on and he gets to throw to Cotch / Coles / Keller.Later my friend.CP
I am not a believer in Leftwich. I think Garcia is more likely to have a good 2009 than Leftwich.
:goodposting:

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Really, I thought he showed surprising strength and balance in short yardage - that I never jnew he had after watching him in college. I saw him gain yardage after contact and bounce off defenders consistently. I agree that Houston likely brings in a bigger back to take some of the pounding off Slaton, which will lead to less gola-line looks (and like you I'm still not ready to annoint him a top 10 dynasty back), but I do not agree that he cannot handle short yardage duties if/when called upon.

I was surprised by his power in the open space, but I thought he failed way too often in short-yardage and went down much too easily in tight spaces. And I think the Texans know short-yardage is not his strength.
Slaton undoubtedly seems to be a player that people can't get a handle on. Watched every Texans game but one, and his ability to fight for yardage was impressive; numerous times he'd be hit early and still have the toughness and drive to get 3-8 yards out of a play. Moreover, he's patient behind his blockers, and in a system built for his success.

Something about Johnson, however, in terms of red zone looks:

Johnson 39

White 47

People often downgrade Slaton because he might have someone come in that steals some goal line carries. Johnson already does. You really have to question whether he'll ever be in a situation where he isn't losing scoring chances to this sort of degree, particularly if White performs well in a contract year in 09. We laugh at him, but White still put up 3.9 a carry with 15 TDs. Johnson may find himself pigeonholed.

How would the red zone looks break down if Ahman Green wasn't injured half the season?

Johnson is one of the most talented players in the league. I'm not worried at all about him getting pigeon-holed. He is the Titans offense.

I don't see where I discussed Slaton's red zone looks. In fact, the only numbers that I put up there were Johnson's. At no point did I mention Slaton's, or try to indicate that he would have more than Johnson. I realize that my disputing your perception of Slaton may have confused you, so allow me to restate:

1. I mentioned that Slaton is often downgraded because he is viewed as someone who will share goal line carries/red zone work.

2. I then mentioned that Johnson already shares goal line carries and red zone looks. He does so to an extraordinary degree, with a big running back that performs more than adequately and is signed for at least another year under a coaching staff that loves to utilize him. Despite the White factor, people continually ignore the fact that Johnson faces just as great a threat to his productivity.

Thus, I don't understand your response. My point is that people seem to have blinders on. They penalize Slaton for maybe sharing carries with a potential backfield partner, but don't penalize Johnson for doing it extravagantly with a traditional, heavily used backfield partner. Furthermore, they piss on Slaton's numbers because of his offensive scheme, which he's an excellent fit for, but don't piss on Johnson's even though he's in an extremely biased run-first offense that as little as two years ago had a significantly lower amount of carries.

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I don't see where I discussed Slaton's red zone looks. In fact, the only numbers that I put up there were Johnson's. At no point did I mention Slaton's, or try to indicate that he would have more than Johnson. I realize that my disputing your perception of Slaton may have confused you, so allow me to restate:1. I mentioned that Slaton is often downgraded because he is viewed as someone who will share goal line carries/red zone work. 2. I then mentioned that Johnson already shares goal line carries and red zone looks. He does so to an extraordinary degree, with a big running back that performs more than adequately and is signed for at least another year under a coaching staff that loves to utilize him. Despite the White factor, people continually ignore the fact that Johnson faces just as great a threat to his productivity. Thus, I don't understand your response. My point is that people seem to have blinders on. They penalize Slaton for maybe sharing carries with a potential backfield partner, but don't penalize Johnson for doing it extravagantly with a traditional, heavily used backfield partner. Furthermore, they piss on Slaton's numbers because of his offensive scheme, which he's an excellent fit for, but don't piss on Johnson's even though he's in an extremely biased run-first offense that as little as two years ago had a significantly lower amount of carries.

My fault. I misread your post. I believe Johnson is much more talented than Slaton, is much more explosive, and has a ceiling as high as any non-Adrian Peterson RB in the NFL. He also produced against 8- and 9-man fronts for most of the season. Johnson is a nucleus player while Slaton is a decent player in an ideal situation.I don't believe Slaton is in the same class as Johnson, so I don't paint them with the same brush.

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I don't see where I discussed Slaton's red zone looks. In fact, the only numbers that I put up there were Johnson's. At no point did I mention Slaton's, or try to indicate that he would have more than Johnson. I realize that my disputing your perception of Slaton may have confused you, so allow me to restate:1. I mentioned that Slaton is often downgraded because he is viewed as someone who will share goal line carries/red zone work. 2. I then mentioned that Johnson already shares goal line carries and red zone looks. He does so to an extraordinary degree, with a big running back that performs more than adequately and is signed for at least another year under a coaching staff that loves to utilize him. Despite the White factor, people continually ignore the fact that Johnson faces just as great a threat to his productivity. Thus, I don't understand your response. My point is that people seem to have blinders on. They penalize Slaton for maybe sharing carries with a potential backfield partner, but don't penalize Johnson for doing it extravagantly with a traditional, heavily used backfield partner. Furthermore, they piss on Slaton's numbers because of his offensive scheme, which he's an excellent fit for, but don't piss on Johnson's even though he's in an extremely biased run-first offense that as little as two years ago had a significantly lower amount of carries.

I can't speak for whomever you're replying to, but I would imagine there point was somewhat based on them having similar numbers despite Slaton not having a bigtime goaline vulture that many expect he will soon.Basically, they had similar numbers, but Johnson did it with a vulture while Slaton did while getting the goaline carries. If Slaton loses the goaline carries like many expect, those numbers would come down below Johnson's by quite a bit.At least, that's how I read it.

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I needed a Top-200 overall list for the blog, but I was bored with it, so I decided to do a Dynasty league mock draft where I played the role of every owner. Results below:

1. Sons of the Tundra - ADRIAN PETERSON, RB, MIN

2. Peter King's Fatuous Coffee Nerds - LARRY FITZGERALD, WR, ARI

3. Schefter's Golden Boys - CALVIN JOHNSON, WR, DET

4. Mort's Misfires - MAURICE JONES-DREW, RB, JAX

5. Clayton's Pencil Neck Geeks - ANDRE JOHNSON, WR, HOU

6. Lomardi's Lamentations - STEVEN JACKSON, RB, STL

7. Glazer's Jock Sniffers - PEYTON MANNING, QB, IND

8. Werder's Impeccable Sources - CHRIS JOHNSON, RB, TEN

9. Salisbury's Misplaced Super-Ego - DREW BREES, QB, NO

10. Berman's Blowhard Casanovas - FRANK GORE, RB, SF

11. Sal Paol's Cocksure Parochialists - MICHAEL TURNER, RB, ATL

12. Goodell's Habitual Line-Steppers - JAY CUTLER, QB, DEN

13. Goodell's Habitual Line-Steppers - DEANGELO WILLIAMS, RB, CAR

14. Sal Paol's Cocksure Parochialists - MATT FORTE, RB, CHI

15. Berman's Blowhard Casanovas - GREG JENNINGS, WR, GB

16. Salisbury's Misplaced Super-Ego - MARSHAWN LYNCH, RB, BUF

17. Werder's Impeccable Sources - STEVE SMITH, WR, CAR

18. Glazer's Jock Sniffers - REGGIE WAYNE, WR, IND

19. Lomardi's Lamentations - MATT RYAN, QB, ATL

20. Clayton's Pencil Neck Geeks - MARION BARBER, RB, DAL

21. Mort's Misfires - RANDY MOSS, WR, NE

22. Schefter's Golden Boys - BRANDON MARSHALL, WR, DEN

23. Peter King's Fatuous Coffee Nerds - BRIAN WESTBROOK, RB, PHI

24. Sons of the Tundra - TOM BRADY, QB, NE

25. Sons of the Tundra - DWAYNE BOWE, WR, KC

26. Peter King's Fatuous Coffee Nerds - RONNIE BROWN, RB, MIA

27. Schefter's Golden Boys - BRANDON JACOBS, RB, NYG

28. Mort's Misfires - RODDY WHITE, WR, ATL

29. Clayton's Pencil Neck Geeks - CLINTON PORTIS, RB, WAS

30. Lomardi's Lamentations - ANQUAN BOLDIN, WR, ARI

31. Glazer's Jock Sniffers - JONATHAN STEWART, RB, CAR

32. Werder's Impeccable Sources - AARON RODGERS, QB, GB

33. Salisbury's Misplaced Super-Ego - MARQUES COLSTON, WR, NO

34. Berman's Blowhard Casanovas - PHILIP RIVERS, QB, SD

35. Sal Paol's Cocksure Parochialists - TONY ROMO, QB, DAL

36. Goodell's Habitual Line-Steppers - DARREN MCFADDEN, RB, OAK

37. Goodell's Habitual Line-Steppers - JASON WITTEN, TE, DAL

38. Sal Paol's Cocksure Parochialists - BRAYLON EDWARDS, WR, CLE

39. Berman's Blowhard Casanovas - PIERRE THOMAS, RB, NO

40. Salisbury's Misplaced Super-Ego - STEVE SLATON, RB, HOU

41. Werder's Impeccable Sources - REGGIE BUSH, RB, NO

42. Glazer's Jock Sniffers - LADAINIAN TOMLINSON, RB, SD

43. Lomardi's Lamentations - KEVIN SMITH, RB, DET

44. Clayton's Pencil Neck Geeks - BEN ROETHLISBERGER, QB, PIT

45. Mort's Misfires - MATT SCHAUB, QB, HOU

46. Schefter's Golden Boys - ANTONIO GATES, TE, SD

47. Peter King's Fatuous Coffee Nerds - EDDIE ROYAL, WR, DEN

48. Sons of the Tundra - WES WELKER, WR, NE

49. Sons of the Tundra - TERRELL OWENS, WR, DAL

50. Peter King's Fatuous Coffee Nerds - KELLEN WINSLOW, TE, CLE

51. Schefter's Golden Boys - JOSEPH ADDAI, RB, IND

52. Mort's Misfires - RYAN GRANT, RB, GB

53. Clayton's Pencil Neck Geeks - LEE EVANS, WR, BUF

54. Lomardi's Lamentations - SANTONIO HOLMES, WR, PIT

55. Glazer's Jock Sniffers - T.J. HOUSHMANDZADEH, WR, CIN

56. Werder's Impeccable Sources - VINCENT JACKSON, WR, SD

57. Salisbury's Misplaced Super-Ego - DALLAS CLARK, TE, IND

58. Berman's Blowhard Casanovas - ANTONIO BRYANT, WR, TB

59. Sal Paol's Cocksure Parochialists - ANTHONY GONZALEZ, WR, IND

60. Goodell's Habitual Line-Steppers - SANTANA MOSS, WR, WAS

61. Goodell's Habitual Line-Steppers - JERRICHO COTCHERY, WR, NYJ

62. Sal Paol's Cocksure Parochialists - ROY WILLIAMS, WR, DAL

63. Berman's Blowhard Casanovas - TONY GONZALEZ, TE, KC

64. Salisbury's Misplaced Super-Ego - CHAD OCHO CINCO, WR, CIN

65. Werder's Impeccable Sources - RASHARD MENDENHALL, RB, PIT

66. Glazer's Jock Sniffers - LARRY JOHNSON, RB, KC

67. Lomardi's Lamentations - DESEAN JACKSON, WR, PHI

68. Clayton's Pencil Neck Geeks - FELIX JONES, RB, DAL

69. Mort's Misfires - CHRIS COOLEY, TE, WAS

70. Schefter's Golden Boys - KURT WARNER, QB, ARI

71. Peter King's Fatuous Coffee Nerds - DONOVAN MCNABB, QB, PHI

72. Sons of the Tundra - RAY RICE, RB, BAL

73. Sons of the Tundra - WILLIS MCGAHEE, RB, BAL

74. Peter King's Fatuous Coffee Nerds - BERNARD BERRIAN, WR, MIN

75. Schefter's Golden Boys - CARSON PALMER, QB, CIN

76. Mort's Misfires - HINES WARD, WR, PIT

77. Clayton's Pencil Neck Geeks - OWEN DANIELS, TE, HOU

78. Lomardi's Lamentations - DUSTIN KELLER, TE, NYJ

79. Glazer's Jock Sniffers - TONY SCHEFFLER, TE, DEN

80. Werder's Impeccable Sources - ZACH MILLER, TE, OAK

81. Salisbury's Misplaced Super-Ego - TORRY HOLT, WR, STL

82. Berman's Blowhard Casanovas - LAVERANUES COLES, WR, NYJ

83. Sal Paol's Cocksure Parochialists - GREG OLSEN, TE, CHI

84. Goodell's Habitual Line-Steppers - WILLIE PARKER, RB, PIT

85. Goodell's Habitual Line-Steppers - LANCE MOORE, WR, NO

86. Sal Paol's Cocksure Parochialists - TEN GINN, WR, MIA

87. Berman's Blowhard Casanovas - THOMAS JONES, RB, NYJ

88. Salisbury's Misplaced Super-Ego - DONNIE AVERY, WR, STL

89. Werder's Impeccable Sources - MATT JONES, WR, JAX

90. Glazer's Jock Sniffers - JOSH MORGAN, WR, SF

91. Lomardi's Lamentations - DERRICK WARD, RB, NYG

92. Clayton's Pencil Neck Geeks - DONALD DRIVER, WR, GB

93. Mort's Misfires - LAURENCE MARONEY, RB, NE

94. Schefter's Golden Boys - CHRIS CHAMBERS, WR, SD

95. Peter King's Fatuous Coffee Nerds - ELI MANNING, QB, NYG

96. Sons of the Tundra - JOHN CARLSON, TE, SEA

97. Sons of the Tundra - LERON MCCLAIN, RB, BAL

98. Peter King's Fatuous Coffee Nerds - JAMAAL CHARLES, RB, KC

99. Schefter's Golden Boys - DERRICK MASON, WR, BAL

100. Mort's Misfires - DARREN SPROLES, RB, SD

101. Clayton's Pencil Neck Geeks - TASHARD CHOICE, RB, DAL

102. Lomardi's Lamentations - AHMAD BRADSHAW, RB, NYG

103. Glazer's Jock Sniffers - DEION BRANCH, WR, SEA

104. Werder's Impeccable Sources - SIDNEY RICE, WR, MIN

105. Salisbury's Misplaced Super-Ego - CEDRIC BENSON, RB, CIN

106. Berman's Blowhard Casanovas - HEATH MILLER, TE, PIT

107. Sal Paol's Cocksure Parochialists - JEREMY SHOCKEY, TE, NO

108. Goodell's Habitual Line-Steppers - PLAXICO BURRESS, WR, NYG

109. Goodell's Habitual Line-Steppers - MICHAEL BUSH, RB, OAK

110. Sal Paol's Cocksure Parochialists - JERIOUS NORWOOD, RB, ATL

111. Berman's Blowhard Casanovas - KEVIN CURTIS, WR, PHI

112. Salisbury's Misplaced Super-Ego - STEVE BREASTON, WR, ARI

113. Werder's Impeccable Sources - LENDALE WHITE, RB, TEN

114. Glazer's Jock Sniffers - DEVIN HESTER, WR, CHI

115. Lomardi's Lamentations - JAMES JONES, WR, GB

116. Clayton's Pencil Neck Geeks - MATT HASSELBECK, QB, SEA

117. Mort's Misfires - JOE FLACCO, QB, BAL

118. Schefter's Golden Boys - EARNEST GRAHAM, RB, TB

119. Peter King's Fatuous Coffee Nerds - MARK CLAYTON, WR, BAL

120. Sons of the Tundra - KEVIN WALTER, WR, HOU

121. Sons of the Tundra - MATT CASSEL, QB, NE

122. Peter King's Fatuous Coffee Nerds - LEON WASHINGTON, RB, NYJ

123. Schefter's Golden Boys - JAMAL LEWIS, RB, CLE

124. Mort's Misfires - DOMENIK HIXON, WR, NYG

125. Clayton's Pencil Neck Geeks - JORDY Nelson, WR, GB

126. Lomardi's Lamentations - DAVID GARRARD, QB, JAX

127. Glazer's Jock Sniffers - JUSTIN GAGE, WR, TEN

128. Werder's Impeccable Sources - MARVIN HARRISON, WR, IND

129. Salisbury's Misplaced Super-Ego - FRED JACKSON, RB, BUF

130. Berman's Blowhard Casanovas - BRADY QUINN, QB, CLE

131. Sal Paol's Cocksure Parochialists - TRENT EDWARDS, QB, BUF

132. Goodell's Habitual Line-Steppers - ROBERT MEACHEM, WR, NO

133. Goodell's Habitual Line-Steppers - JASON CAMPBELL, QB, WAS

134. Sal Paol's Cocksure Parochialists - STEELERS DEF, D, PIT

135. Berman's Blowhard Casanovas - LIMAS SWEED, WR, PIT

136. Salisbury's Misplaced Super-Ego - JAMARCUS RUSSELL, QB, OAK

137. Werder's Impeccable Sources - BRENT CELEK, TE, PHI

138. Glazer's Jock Sniffers - CHAD HENNE, QB, MIA

139. Lomardi's Lamentations - NATE BURLESON, WR, SEA

140. Clayton's Pencil Neck Geeks - RYAN TORAIN, RB, DEN

141. Mort's Misfires - BRANDON JACKSON, RB, GB

142. Schefter's Golden Boys - DEVIN THOMAS, WR, WAS

143. Peter King's Fatuous Coffee Nerds - GIANTS DEF, D, NYG

144. Sons of the Tundra - VIKINGS DEF, D, MIN

145. Sons of the Tundra - CHESTER TAYLOR, RB, MIN

146. Peter King's Fatuous Coffee Nerds - TODD HEAP, TE, BAL

147. Schefter's Golden Boys - RAVENS DEF, D, BAL

148. Mort's Misfires - TITANS DEF, D, TEN

149. Clayton's Pencil Neck Geeks - PEYTON HILLIS, RB, DEN

150. Lomardi's Lamentations - JULIUS JONES, RB, SEA

151. Glazer's Jock Sniffers - SAMMY MORRIS, RB, NE

152. Werder's Impeccable Sources - MICHAEL VICK, QB, ATL

153. Salisbury's Misplaced Super-Ego - JASON HILL, WR, SF

154. Berman's Blowhard Casanovas - TIM HIGHTOWER, RB, ARI

155. Sal Paol's Cocksure Parochialists - RICKY WILLIAMS, RB, MIA

156. Goodell's Habitual Line-Steppers - MIKE WALKER, WR, JAX

157. Goodell's Habitual Line-Steppers - JUSTIN FARGAS, RB, OAK

158. Sal Paol's Cocksure Parochialists - MALCOLM KELLY, WR, WAS

159. Berman's Blowhard Casanovas - KEVIN JONES, RB, CHI

160. Salisbury's Misplaced Super-Ego - SHAUN HILL, QB, SF

161. Werder's Impeccable Sources - KYLE ORTON, QB, CHI

162. Glazer's Jock Sniffers - EAGLES DEF, D, PHI

163. Lomardi's Lamentations - BEARS DEF, D, CHI

164. Clayton's Pencil Neck Geeks - LADELL BETTS, RB, WAS

165. Mort's Misfires - STEVE SMITH, WR, NYG

166. Schefter's Golden Boys - MATT LEINART, QB, ARI

167. Peter King's Fatuous Coffee Nerds - JOHNNIE LEE HIGGINS, WR, OAK

168. Sons of the Tundra - VINCE YOUNG, QB, TEN

169. Sons of the Tundra - VERNON DAVIS, TE, SF

170. Peter King's Fatuous Coffee Nerds - JEROME HARRISON, RB, CLE

171. Schefter's Golden Boys - DOMINIC RHODES, RB, IND

172. Mort's Misfires - FRED TAYLOR, RB, JAX

173. Clayton's Pencil Neck Geeks - DAVONE BESS, WR, MIA

174. Lomardi's Lamentations - DANNY WARE, RB, NYG

175. Glazer's Jock Sniffers - LAMONT JORDAN, RB, NE

176. Werder's Impeccable Sources - PATRIOTS DEF, D, NE

177. Salisbury's Misplaced Super-Ego - MARCEDES LEWIS, TE, JAX

178. Berman's Blowhard Casanovas - PACKERS DEF, D, GB

179. Sal Paol's Cocksure Parochialists - TYLER THIGPEN, QB, KC

180. Goodell's Habitual Line-Steppers - JETS DEF, D, NYJ

181. Goodell's Habitual Line-Steppers - JAKE DELHOMME, QB, CAR

182. Sal Paol's Cocksure Parochialists - MAURICE MORRIS, RB, SEA

183. Berman's Blowhard Casanovas - MARK BRADLEY, WR, KC

184. Salisbury's Misplaced Super-Ego - COWBOYS DEF, D, DAL

185. Werder's Impeccable Sources - STEPHEN GOSTKOWSKI, K, NE

186. Glazer's Jock Sniffers - KEVIN BOSS, TE, NYG

187. Lomardi's Lamentations - JAMES HARD, WR, BUF

188. Clayton's Pencil Neck Geeks - BUCCANEERS DEF, D, TB

189. Mort's Misfires - CHAD PENNINGTON, QB, MIA

190. Schefter's Golden Boys - ISAAC BRUCE, WR, SF

191. Peter King's Fatuous Coffee Nerds - KEVIN KOLB, QB, PHI

192. Sons of the Tundra - EARLY DOUCET, WR, ARI

193. Sons of the Tundra - MARIO MANNINGHAM, WR, NYG

194. Peter King's Fatuous Coffee Nerds - ANDRE CALDWELL, WR, CIN

195. Schefter's Golden Boys - MIKE HART, RB, IND

196. Mort's Misfires - BEN WATSON, TE, NE

197. Clayton's Pencil Neck Geeks - VISANTHE SHIANCOE, TE, MIN

198. Lomardi's Lamentations - BO SCAIFE, TE, TEN

199. Glazer's Jock Sniffers - DEREK ANDERSON, QB, CLE

200. Werder's Impeccable Sources - MEWELDE MOORE, RB, PIT

201. Salisbury's Misplaced Super-Ego - XAVIER OMON, RB, BUF

202. Berman's Blowhard Casanovas - MARC BULGER, QB, STL

203. Sal Paol's Cocksure Parochialists - MUHSIN MUHAMMAD, WR, CAR

204. Goodell's Habitual Line-Steppers - ANTHONY FASANO, TE, MIA

205. Goodell's Habitual Line-Steppers - NATE KAEDING, K, SD

206. Sal Paol's Cocksure Parochialists - ADAM VINATIERI, K, IND

207. Berman's Blowhard Casanovas - ROB BIRONAS, K, TEN

208. Salisbury's Misplaced Super-Ego - GARRETT HARTLEY, K, NO

209. Werder's Impeccable Sources - JOEY GALLOWAY, WR, TB

210. Glazer's Jock Sniffers - JOHN KASAY, K, CAR

211. Lomardi's Lamentations - TARVARIS JACKSON, QB, MIN

212. Clayton's Pencil Neck Geeks - BYRON LEFTWICH, QB, PIT

213. Mort's Misfires - NICK FOLK, K, DAL

214. Schefter's Golden Boys - DONALD LEE, TE, GB

215. Peter King's Fatuous Coffee Nerds - JEFF REED, K, PIT

216. Sons of the Tundra - RYAN LONGWELL, K, MIN

217. Sons of the Tundra - GREG CAMARILLO, WR, MIA

218. Peter King's Fatuous Coffee Nerds - JEROME SIMPSON, WR, CIN

219. Schefter's Golden Boys - JASON ELAM, K, ATL

220. Mort's Misfires - JACOBY JONES, WR, HOU

221. Clayton's Pencil Neck Geeks - KRIS BROWN, K, HOU

222. Lomardi's Lamentations - NEIL RACKERS, K, ARI

223. Glazer's Jock Sniffers - KERRY COLLINS, QB, TEN

224. Werder's Impeccable Sources - AHMAN GREEN, RB, UFA

225. Salisbury's Misplaced Super-Ego - BILLS DEF, D, BUF

226. Berman's Blowhard Casanovas - WARRICK DUNN, RB, TB

227. Sal Paol's Cocksure Parochialists - JEFF GARCIA, QB, UFA

228. Goodell's Habitual Line-Steppers - LAURENT ROBINSON, WR, ATL

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Extremely well done on the mock. If I could give advice to anybody starting in a new dynasty league, I'd say get yourself a stud young WR. Putting 3 in your top 5 is an excellent reflection of that. The next thing I'd recommend is getting a top QB. Having Cutler, Ryan, Rodgers, Brees etc at the top of your lineup will assure you are good at a critical position for some time to come.

RBs are entirely over rated in dynasty start ups. So much of the NFL is RBBC now, and RBs shelf lives are so short, I don't think it makes sense to take one high anymore. Some of the best RBs to enter the league over the last few years (ADP, MJD, Chris Johnson, Jonathan Stewart, DeAngelo Williams, Marion Barber, Ronnie Brown) all have been in time shares. Take the hit early on RB talent, and then work the WW. If you are paying attention during the season, you should be able to pick up the Pierre Thomas' and Ryan Grants of the world. I think its pretty clear as well, that even if you don't have a high draft pick annually, you can still get yourself a good RB in the rookie drafts. Frank Gore, MJD and Michael Turner are all in the mocks' 1st round, yet they definitely weren't high 1st rounders. Fitz, Calvin and AJ were all top 3 NFL picks, and high dynasty picks.

Edited by Kitrick Taylor

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I noticed in the latest set of rankings that you have tagged Rice with a red number. Why is he downgraded for you? LeRon McClain? Do you rank him that way because you expect him to be RBBBC for a while?

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wow youve got M.Ryan pretty high. I like him a lot but Im surprised you have him over Rodgers,Brady,Romo, and Rivers. Nice job overall. I really like that you have some stud WRs in the 1st rd

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wow youve got M.Ryan pretty high. I like him a lot but Im surprised you have him over Rodgers,Brady,Romo, and Rivers. Nice job overall. I really like that you have some stud WRs in the 1st rd

Yeah, I'm questioning myself on that one too. I don't have any problem putting him high, but over Brady and Rodgers? He's a young elite franchise QB, so he has plenty of value as a nucleus player, but I'm having second thoughts.

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I noticed in the latest set of rankings that you have tagged Rice with a red number. Why is he downgraded for you? LeRon McClain? Do you rank him that way because you expect him to be RBBBC for a while?

Latest word is that McGahee is expected back with the Ravens . . . as is McClain. How long will you wait on a 3-headed monster back if you're not convinced he's an elite talent? It's not like we're talking about Jonathan Stewart here.

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Speaking of Stewart, he seems awful high(15th at RB) for a guy who is sharing time with the guy who was just the #1 RB this season and is only a few years older.

What are you projecting for him in the near future? Is he ranked that high solely for long term value or do you think he'll be a startable option this season?

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Great news on Lendale White. His Uncle/Trainer says he is getting himself in great shape this offseason and want to go into camp at 230 lbs. First off, if you are really serious about getting in shape why wouldn't you go to one of the elite training facilities? I don't know, maybe his Uncle is a stud trainer, but I'm pretty skeptical. Also, in that the pending uncapped year affects his Free Agency status (delaying it by a year) does he now see that his best chance to make $$$ in his next contract is to prove to the Titans that he is actually worth signing to an extension? He has a long history of apathy to overcome. Looking at it from the outside I would say he is continuing to deceive himself as to what it takes to maximize his potential.

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Does anyone know of a draft pick calculator for rookie drafts? Im looking to trade some picks from later rounds to move up into the first and I wanted to get a ballpark idea of what I would need to offer.

Check the signature line of one of the staff members (I think its Jeff P), he has a link to one there.

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Does anyone have an opinion on where you would rank Crabtree to whatever rookie WR you like in the draft as compared to the established veteran WR's? That would help establish draft picks value releative to trading for a veteran. At this point I would probably have him at about #15 for WR's. I would have a hard time moving him up much higher until he proves something in the NFL as all of the guys above that point have proven they can put up top 10 WR numbers. 15 may even be high, I am curious as to what others think.

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Does anyone have an opinion on where you would rank Crabtree to whatever rookie WR you like in the draft as compared to the established veteran WR's? That would help establish draft picks value releative to trading for a veteran. At this point I would probably have him at about #15 for WR's. I would have a hard time moving him up much higher until he proves something in the NFL as all of the guys above that point have proven they can put up top 10 WR numbers. 15 may even be high, I am curious as to what others think.

There's a consensus Shark Pool ranking going on, and he's not listed yet:

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...456141&st=0

In time, your answer will appear.

Pasquino's dynasty calculator article:

http://subscribers.footballguys.com/2006/0...dynastycalc.php

Edited by stevegamer

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Brett Ratliff will be shooting up your QB rankings by mid season if not sooner. I think hes going to be the real deal for the Jets

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