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UFC wagering: breaking news - judging is so terrible it got me to return here to update this thread title (9 Viewers)

Here was the payroll for the PPV. This does not include the fight bonuses

- Anderson Silva: $800,000 (includes $200,000 win bonus)

- Nick Diaz: $500,000

- Tyron Woodley: $139,000 (includes $65,000 win bonus)

- Kelvin Gastelum: $21,000

- Al Iaquinta: $36,000 (includes $18,000 win bonus)

- Joe Lauzon: $36,000

- Thales Leites: $48,000 (includes $24,000 win bonus)

- Tim Boetsch: $52,000

- Thiago Alves: $84,000 (includes $42,000 win bonus)

- Jordan Mein: $22,000

- Miesha Tate: $76,000 (includes $38,000 win bonus)

- Sara McMann: $25,000

- Derek Brunson: $50,000 (includes $25,000 win bonus)

- Ed Herman: $47,000

- John Lineker: $35,700 (includes $21,000 win bonus)

- Ian McCall: $22,300

- Rafael Natal: $58,000 (includes $29,000 win bonus)

- Tom Watson: $16,000

- Ildemar Alcantara: $32,000 (includes $16,000 win bonus)

- Richardson Moreira: $8,000

- Thiago “Marreta” Santos: $26,000 (includes $13,000 win bonus)

- Andy Enz: $8,000

 
I've never been a super diehard mma fan but really do enjoy it. have to say since the whole fox deal which was supposed to launch the ufc to the next level, I have been losing more and more interest. the watered down cards where 1 injury ruins the whole thing, the increased prices, etc. looking at all the upcoming events, I don't see one that I will be spending my money on to watch where a couple years ago I was buying most of them.

 
steelerfan1 said:
I've never been a super diehard mma fan but really do enjoy it. have to say since the whole fox deal which was supposed to launch the ufc to the next level, I have been losing more and more interest. the watered down cards where 1 injury ruins the whole thing, the increased prices, etc. looking at all the upcoming events, I don't see one that I will be spending my money on to watch where a couple years ago I was buying most of them.
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it's funny because i know Dana always talked about trying to get the UFC to a point where they could do something like "Tuesday Night Fights". I use to love watching that on USA and got me more into boxing. I always though the UFC needed something like this too, but i think the big difference now is the 24-hour MMA sites and all of the other attn. given to it, that it creates this overkill. I think the Fox deal is coming up soon or at least some sort of negotiations, and i am pretty sure they are aware that there is too much right now. But i don't know if anybody has the answer either. if they do less shows, it means less guys on their roster, and guys will fight less.

 
modogg said:
steelerfan1 said:
I've never been a super diehard mma fan but really do enjoy it. have to say since the whole fox deal which was supposed to launch the ufc to the next level, I have been losing more and more interest. the watered down cards where 1 injury ruins the whole thing, the increased prices, etc. looking at all the upcoming events, I don't see one that I will be spending my money on to watch where a couple years ago I was buying most of them.
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it's funny because i know Dana always talked about trying to get the UFC to a point where they could do something like "Tuesday Night Fights". I use to love watching that on USA and got me more into boxing. I always though the UFC needed something like this too, but i think the big difference now is the 24-hour MMA sites and all of the other attn. given to it, that it creates this overkill. I think the Fox deal is coming up soon or at least some sort of negotiations, and i am pretty sure they are aware that there is too much right now. But i don't know if anybody has the answer either. if they do less shows, it means less guys on their roster, and guys will fight less.
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yeah mo, I used to look so forward to teddy and max on Tuesday night fights. I know i'm aging myself here but I still remember the mickey ward vs emmanuel newton (augustis) fight on TNF.

not sure what the answer is either but looking at this year, they have 44 events scheduled. I have to assume that I am more the average fanbase or a little above. if the average base feels the same as I which I'm not sure they do, I could see the ufc doing more harm than good for themselves. has to be a happy medium from the 44 watered down cards to even 24-30 stacked or good cards. I would pay more money than the 50 for a truly stacked card even if they had 10 of those PPV a year.

 
I would love a 24 fight a year schedule even though I agree it won't happen.

With the 24 schedule, every other week you alternate a fight night on Fox and a PPV.

Have 6 of the fights be on foreign soil (every other month) while the other 18 move around the states.

 
NewlyRetired said:
I would love a 24 fight a year schedule even though I agree it won't happen.

With the 24 schedule, every other week you alternate a fight night on Fox and a PPV.

Have 6 of the fights be on foreign soil (every other month) while the other 18 move around the states.
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PERFECT! lets call dana.

 
NewlyRetired said:
modogg said:
I think the Fox deal is coming up soon or at least some sort of negotiations
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The current deal with Fox expires in December of 2018.
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i remember hearing something about them doing some mid-contract talks or something. I think they know it is something they need to address, but i think they also know it isn't killing the sport. it is killing the momentum they had, but i am sure they can find a way to bounce back. the month of January was fun,and i had interest in all the cards they put on.

but to be honest, the one card i probably have the most interest in February is the Bellator card, even tough it will be sub-par to the UFC.

 
steelerfan1 said:
NewlyRetired said:
I would love a 24 fight a year schedule even though I agree it won't happen.

With the 24 schedule, every other week you alternate a fight night on Fox and a PPV.

Have 6 of the fights be on foreign soil (every other month) while the other 18 move around the states.
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PERFECT! lets call dana.
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I probably ordered 6-10 PPVs a year between 2007 and 2012. Lately it's been more like 2 or 3.

The UFC now has 10 belts, not counting interims.

A champion should ideally be fighting every 4 months, and if not then at least twice a year. Of course inuries don't always allow that, but it's a reasonable expectation to have. So say we get 2.5 title defenses per champ per year.

that's 25 title fights. have title eliminators and other high contender matches on the Televised fight nights. Schedule 12 PPVs per year, with 2 title defenses on each one, and I'm pretty sure I'd buy way more PPVs per year than I have lately.

 
Bobcat10 said:
Aren't Fight Nights essentially MMAs version of TNFs?
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they are supposed to be, but there is much attn to them they aren't able to do them like the TNFs. i remember Dana a few times telling people to basically not watch the Fight Night cards and cards in other countries because the cards weren't intended for them, but it doesn't seem to work.

 
AhrnCityPahnder said:
steelerfan1 said:
NewlyRetired said:
I would love a 24 fight a year schedule even though I agree it won't happen.

With the 24 schedule, every other week you alternate a fight night on Fox and a PPV.

Have 6 of the fights be on foreign soil (every other month) while the other 18 move around the states.
Click to expand...
PERFECT! lets call dana.
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I probably ordered 6-10 PPVs a year between 2007 and 2012. Lately it's been more like 2 or 3.

The UFC now has 10 belts, not counting interims.

A champion should ideally be fighting every 4 months, and if not then at least twice a year. Of course inuries don't always allow that, but it's a reasonable expectation to have. So say we get 2.5 title defenses per champ per year.

that's 25 title fights. have title eliminators and other high contender matches on the Televised fight nights. Schedule 12 PPVs per year, with 2 title defenses on each one, and I'm pretty sure I'd buy way more PPVs per year than I have lately.
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completely feel the same way ahrn. would be getting way more of my revenue anyway. would much rather pay say $65 or 70 by getting a few guys together and seeing great cards than peeing away 50 for nothing.

 
AhrnCityPahnder said:
interesting thread from 4 years ago getting a lot more attention in light of todays news:

http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/thread/1752116/Anderson-Silvas-Closet-SyringeGate/?&page=1
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i have to think this is a one time thing for him getting caught now. His body never looked to be the sign of any kind of steroid or growth hormones. Maybe he used it for recovery, but you would have to think he would have been caught before seeing how much he has fought. Maybe this is really an indictment of the athletic commissions and how poor they have been with drug testing. What i find is amazing is that they got the results on 1/9, and he was still allowed to fight.

I would think this is one of those things where they should be required to let the opponent know that they are going to be fighting on a guy on some stuff, do they want to continue the fight or not

 
modogg said:
AhrnCityPahnder said:
Cliff Clavin said:
Too bad. Thought he was one of the few clean ones. Cody McKenzie is now the last guy I believe is clean.
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Joe Lauzon?
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for all the hate he gets, i put Bisping here too. Guy gets to fight all of the PED guys though
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Unrelated to this topic but did Bisping look weird to anyone during the PPV? I could not put my finger on it but something look wrong with his face, in the general eye area...

 
NewlyRetired said:
modogg said:
AhrnCityPahnder said:
Cliff Clavin said:
Too bad. Thought he was one of the few clean ones. Cody McKenzie is now the last guy I believe is clean.
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Joe Lauzon?
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for all the hate he gets, i put Bisping here too. Guy gets to fight all of the PED guys though
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Unrelated to this topic but did Bisping look weird to anyone during the PPV? I could not put my finger on it but something look wrong with his face, in the general eye area...
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yeah, he had a bad eye injury a year or so ago, and it does look F'd up. I think he tore his cornea or something. It was similar to what Alan Belcher had i think, It sucks for him because he is a good analyst, but i don't know if he can keep around with that

 
link? I didn't follow the details that much. all I know (or thought I knew) was that he pissed hot for PEDs, was later revealed to be a faulty test and he was exonerated and is now suing the UFC.

 
AhrnCityPahnder said:
link? I didn't follow the details that much. all I know (or thought I knew) was that he pissed hot for PEDs, was later revealed to be a faulty test and he was exonerated and is now suing the UFC.
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Seems like everything was botched from start to finish in a foreign country. I don't think Nevada is going to have the same problem.

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2014/10/8/6948491/top-scientist-says-to-ignore-cung-les-hgh-test-result

Summary:

  1. HGH levels were in the expected range for a human post-fight
  2. Lab wasn't WADA accredited
  3. Didn't actually test for the presence of outside HGH
  4. Destroyed B sample
Favorite part was Le's team had to google translate the results since they were in Chinese.

 
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SacramentoBob said:
AhrnCityPahnder said:
link? I didn't follow the details that much. all I know (or thought I knew) was that he pissed hot for PEDs, was later revealed to be a faulty test and he was exonerated and is now suing the UFC.
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Seems like everything was botched from start to finish in a foreign country. I don't think Nevada is going to have the same problem.

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2014/10/8/6948491/top-scientist-says-to-ignore-cung-les-hgh-test-result

Summary:

  1. HGH levels were in the expected range for a human post-fight
  2. Lab wasn't WADA accredited
  3. Didn't actually test for the presence of outside HGH
  4. Destroyed B sample
Favorite part was Le's team had to google translate the results since they were in Chinese.
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Ben Fowlkes had some real good stuff on it at mmajunkie. i can't fins the specific article, but he seems to be one of the better jouranlists when it comes to this stuff. I remember a few interviews he did with some doctors all about PEDs and the actual effects on the body.:

http://mmajunkie.com/2014/10/twitter-mailbag-les-drug-test-macdonalds-big-shot-and-more

 
I do find it odd that Silva would be doping for a decade and get popped for it now. He'd have a team of good doctors who have it down to a science. It's possible that he switched up the routine to help him rehab and they didn't have that down to a science.

 
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Anthony Johnson currently sitting at +$235

(Must occur in 2015 in the USA)

Kinda like Rumble at over 2-1.

 
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The sport is going to have to cut this cancer off at the limb. It's going to hurt until the message is sent that either Everyone is juicing and we're here for the blood (which I'd be fine with, but will never fly) or that PED violations are met with much more severe punishments than they currently are.

 
AhrnCityPahnder said:
The sport is going to have to cut this cancer off at the limb. It's going to hurt until the message is sent that either Everyone is juicing and we're here for the blood (which I'd be fine with, but will never fly) or that PED violations are met with much more severe punishments than they currently are.
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Agreed. It's an interesting debate, and one I always parallel to the world of professional bodybuilding where it's just assumed everyone is "on." If you can never remove it entirely, or simply don't want to (which it seems like the UFC doesn't truly care to, not matter how hard they beat the anti-PED drum) the only way to level the playing field is to allow everyone to do it.

This is an extremely demanding sport - one of the rare ones where the training process is much more likely to yield an injury than the competition itself. Guys get banged up - and they look for ways to heal faster or recover better so they can go back and do it again, and again, and again to continue to improve. I personally don't consider people using #### to be cheaters. Dishonest? Sure. Breaking the rules? Sure. But how different is it really than HS kids taking adderall to stay up all night so they can study, ace a test, and get a college scholarship that they are competing with hundreds of others for. Is that not enhancement of performance? (Yes, I know it's not an exact parallel but you get the drift.)

Unfortunately, the market for chemical substances is large, and only going to continue to get bigger. You've got a lot of smart people out there figuring out the exact dosages and usage schedules to beat tests no matter what. As the sport (all sports in general, really) continue to get more lucrative, and therefore, more competitive, people are going to be willing to push the envelope and risk their reputation by juicing in order to try to get to that next level. Just wait til the UFC Reebok sponsorship kicks in, and guys are paid based on their rankings. See how much more competitive this environment gets to succeed, and do so convincingly. It's a problem that, much like in other sports, isn't going to go away any time soon.

 
AhrnCityPahnder said:
I wonder if having a win overturned to a NC affects Silva's 200k win bonus
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Lol. it affected that and another $5.8M

Report: UFC has blocked $6 million payment to Anderson Silva

edited to add: From someone on reddit, I'm taking his butyrate assumptions to be correct:

Some rough PPV points math here:

6 million final payment - 600k show money - 200k win money = 5.2 million

5.2 million / ~650,000 PPV buys = 8

Anderson Silva made approx $8 per PPV buy.
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AhrnCityPahnder said:
AhrnCityPahnder said:
I wonder if having a win overturned to a NC affects Silva's 200k win bonus
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Lol. it affected that and another $5.8M

Report: UFC has blocked $6 million payment to Anderson Silva

edited to add: From someone on reddit, I'm taking his butyrate assumptions to be correct:

Some rough PPV points math here:

6 million final payment - 600k show money - 200k win money = 5.2 million

5.2 million / ~650,000 PPV buys = 8

Anderson Silva made approx $8 per PPV buy.
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UFC is blocking payment to Silva and refunding the PPV buyers $8 a piece, right? LOL

 
Cliff Clavin said:
Lombard vs McDonald scrapped because Lombard failed an out-of-competition drug test.

UFC is quickly becoming a ####### joke.
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if i had a dollar for everytime i heard this i would be in good shape. What this really is, is the UFC putting pressure on the athletic commissions to test, and now instead of a few days after the fight finding out about the drugs. they finally do it ahead of time. It will certainly be a rough patch, but how else do you get rid of the rampant use of PEDs in MMA? this seems to be the only way, to test like crazy and start to follow through with it. might trim their roster a bit, but at some point fighters will need to realize that they have to watch what they consume.

I wonder how much GSP is driving any of this?

 
What is the reason the UFC does not pull all drug testing inside inside its own organization?

Something simple like random drug tests for every one on roster and mandatory tests 3 weeks before a fight.

Is it something to do with conflict of interest in that the UFC might not drop the hammer on a big name if caught?

 
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modogg said:
Cliff Clavin said:
Lombard vs McDonald scrapped because Lombard failed an out-of-competition drug test.

UFC is quickly becoming a ####### joke.
Click to expand...
if i had a dollar for everytime i heard this i would be in good shape. What this really is, is the UFC putting pressure on the athletic commissions to test, and now instead of a few days after the fight finding out about the drugs. they finally do it ahead of time. It will certainly be a rough patch, but how else do you get rid of the rampant use of PEDs in MMA? this seems to be the only way, to test like crazy and start to follow through with it. might trim their roster a bit, but at some point fighters will need to realize that they have to watch what they consume.

I wonder how much GSP is driving any of this?
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It isn't the PEDs. It is the wild inconsistencies. Silva and Jones fail out of competition testing and they still fight. Rumble beats his wife with no repercussions yet, the guy who's name I currently forget gets cut. Riddle gets popped for weed and gets cut. Diaz brothers get high between rounds and the UFC looks the other way.

 
Cliff Clavin said:
modogg said:
Cliff Clavin said:
Lombard vs McDonald scrapped because Lombard failed an out-of-competition drug test.

UFC is quickly becoming a ####### joke.
Click to expand...
if i had a dollar for everytime i heard this i would be in good shape. What this really is, is the UFC putting pressure on the athletic commissions to test, and now instead of a few days after the fight finding out about the drugs. they finally do it ahead of time. It will certainly be a rough patch, but how else do you get rid of the rampant use of PEDs in MMA? this seems to be the only way, to test like crazy and start to follow through with it. might trim their roster a bit, but at some point fighters will need to realize that they have to watch what they consume.

I wonder how much GSP is driving any of this?
Click to expand...
It isn't the PEDs. It is the wild inconsistencies. Silva and Jones fail out of competition testing and they still fight. Rumble beats his wife with no repercussions yet, the guy who's name I currently forget gets cut. Riddle gets popped for weed and gets cut. Diaz brothers get high between rounds and the UFC looks the other way.
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I'm glad that it doesn't seem to be just going away this time. Some good articles and discussions out there this week about this issue. The UFC is really in a tough bind here. They are the one's who have pushed for testing beside the fight night, and this is why there are so many people getting caught. Like Silva, tested hot for 2 of the tests "out of competition" but for the regular scheduled test he was fine. I don't want to ramble, so a few bullet points here:

1. I think mmajunkie had a good article tracking the failed tests and some stats. a funny one was looking at failed tests by fight camps. Blackhouse I think had a ton of guys who failed.

2. and it really does screw the UFC with these tests, and Ben Fowlkes had a good article on it. he basically said where we have to figure out as fans what we want. if they continue with these tests and even go the next steps we can say we have a clean sport, but will miss a ton of fights. In my opinion, this is where other orgs. like Bellator and ONEFC could get a ton of good fighters who would take the safer route with an org. who won't test as heavy. So if they continue this testing, we could really see a dramatic drop in fight quality. with the over-saturation already, we could be looking at close to a sport-killer potentially. Considering everybody is saying over 50% of fighters are probably on something, it would be dramatic for sure. and the funding is a huge issue too

but it is good to have this conversation and see it through. What should the roles of the athletic commissions be and the promoters? how much do fans actually care? all sorts of things complicate this issue

 
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