What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

Are baseball writers so pretentious (1 Viewer)

Thunderlips

Footballguy
that they cannot vote 100% for someone to be in the Hall of Fame? C'MON!!!! This BS about "unprecedented honor" is a joke. This deciding not to vote because your feathers ruffled over sometheing that has happened in or around the game is dumb. I can't stand it when a bunch of pencil pushing nerds who didn't make it past tee-ball try to bring the athletes they both admire and despise down a peg or two. Just vote on merit and not on some assinine sense of self righteousness.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=At7D...p&type=lgns

 
Past elections also were cited by Ladewski as reasons for submitting a blank ballot. "What makes Gwynn and Ripken so special that they deserve to be unanimous selections?" he wrote. "Walter Johnson, Cy Young and Honus Wagner didn't receive such Hall passes. Neither did Lou Gehrig, Babe Ruth and Ted Williams. In fact, nobody has in the history of the game. Based on the standards set by the Hall of Fame voters decades ago, is there a neutral observer out there who can honestly say Gwynn and Ripken should be afforded an unprecedented honor?"
This is ####### ######ed, and this idiot needs to have his voting rights taken away ASAP.
 
JeffyKeane said:
Ty Cobb was left off four ballots, Nolan Ryan wasn't on six, Hank Aaron on nine, Babe Ruth on 11 and Willie Mays on 23. Joe DiMaggio needed to appear on the ballot three times to get in, receiving 44 percent and 69 percent in his first two tries.
:goodposting: How could someone leave Babe Ruth, Hank Aaron or Willie Mays off of their ballot .Those that did that should have their vote taken away
 
Can't you just picture a tool like Mike Lupica feeling all superior and sticking his chest out as he leaves Mark McGuire off of his ballot

 
Gwynn or Rip don't deserve that "elite" status, but I'll give you that it's pretentious to actually speak it.

Of those big ones listed, I can see leaving Ryan short. Ryan was a barely .500 pitcher and the career leader in walks. Certain first ballot hall of fame, but I can see not voting first ballot. Ditto Dimaggio, and I"m a huge Yankee fan, but he had a fairly short career and not crazily overwhelming stats. But inside his numbers he gets really impressive, as he may have had more homers than strikeouts in his career(or maybe like 20 more K's than homers).

 
I hate the idea of "first ballot HOF'er". Either someone deserves to be in or they don't. Making a guy wait doesn't make sense, there aren't tiers or levels or anything inside. Once you're in, you're in.

And Joltin Joe always should have been in--but few people look down on his career nowadays with any sort of stigma because he wasn't a "first ballot" guy. No one values what he did any less because he was a "third ballot" guy, no one says he doesn't belong on the same level as Dave Winfield, and I don't think anyone will ever argue Winfield was a much, much better ballplayer than DiMaggio. HOF'ers are HOF'ers.

There's nothing more pretentious than a writer saying "Oh, I guess he deserves to be in The Hall, but I'm going to make him stew on it for a couple years first."

 
As a HOF voter, Paul Ladewski is entitled to take his presumed guilty position and return a blank ballot. But he's wrong to publicly declare that he's doing so in his column. He's making himself into the story, where it should be about Ripken, Gwynn, McGwire and the candidates on the fringe. The BBWA should take Ladewski's ballot away.

If he cares so deeply about the steroids issue, Ladewski should have been more of a reporter in 2001 than he is a tool in 2007. If that's possible.

 
As a HOF voter, Paul Ladewski is entitled to take his presumed guilty position and return a blank ballot. But he's wrong to publicly declare that he's doing so in his column. He's making himself into the story, where it should be about Ripken, Gwynn, McGwire and the candidates on the fringe. The BBWA should take Ladewski's ballot away.If he cares so deeply about the steroids issue, Ladewski should have been more of a reporter in 2001 than he is a tool in 2007. If that's possible.
"ouch" :thumbup:
 
As a HOF voter, Paul Ladewski is entitled to take his presumed guilty position and return a blank ballot. But he's wrong to publicly declare that he's doing so in his column. He's making himself into the story, where it should be about Ripken, Gwynn, McGwire and the candidates on the fringe. The BBWA should take Ladewski's ballot away.If he cares so deeply about the steroids issue, Ladewski should have been more of a reporter in 2001 than he is a tool in 2007. If that's possible.
:thumbup:
 
JeffyKeane said:
Ty Cobb was left off four ballots, Nolan Ryan wasn't on six, Hank Aaron on nine, Babe Ruth on 11 and Willie Mays on 23. Joe DiMaggio needed to appear on the ballot three times to get in, receiving 44 percent and 69 percent in his first two tries.
i agree with the main point of this thread, but wanted to comment on this excerpt, which i presume is taken from the linked article (didn't read it).Cobb & Ruth's votes were from the first ballot in 1936, when each got over 95% of the vote. Consider that every player since the beginning of MLB was a possible candidate, and consider that legends like Lou Gehrig, Cy Young, and Rogers Hornsby didn't even get elected that year (the 5 inductees were Cobb, Ruth, Walter Johnson, Honus Wagner, and Christy Mathewson).DiMaggio was a unique case, too. Back then, upon retirement, a player was immediately eligible. Rumors circulated prior to the 54 balloting, that if DiMaggio was elected, the Pirates would sign him to a lucrative contract as a gate attraction. The suppressed his vote totals that year and the next. I guess by 56, the voters were convinced the Joe was not coming back. In the meantime, the HOF instituted the 5-year waiting rule (albeit with an exception that applied only to DiMaggio).No peculiarities about Aaron or Mays, but by then, this dumb notion of "no one shall be unanimous" had taken root.
 
So what you will, the baseball Hall of Fame is the only one that really matters.
eh?Guys should only be ON the ballot once. They had a career. It's been over for 5 years. Either they are in or they are out.
:own3d: A guy is either a HOFer or not. I could even see being allowed back on the ballot after 10 or 20 years after the first vote as time does change some people's perspectives. But this whole "he's a first, he's a second, he's a third" ballot HOFer is just plain stupid. If they really want to do that, they should setup tiers. I believe that The Sports Guy has actually recommended this. Then you can vote a guy in but as a second or third tier guy.
 
JeffyKeane said:
Ty Cobb was left off four ballots, Nolan Ryan wasn't on six, Hank Aaron on nine, Babe Ruth on 11 and Willie Mays on 23. Joe DiMaggio needed to appear on the ballot three times to get in, receiving 44 percent and 69 percent in his first two tries.
i agree with the main point of this thread, but wanted to comment on this excerpt, which i presume is taken from the linked article (didn't read it).Cobb & Ruth's votes were from the first ballot in 1936, when each got over 95% of the vote. Consider that every player since the beginning of MLB was a possible candidate, and consider that legends like Lou Gehrig, Cy Young, and Rogers Hornsby didn't even get elected that year (the 5 inductees were Cobb, Ruth, Walter Johnson, Honus Wagner, and Christy Mathewson).

DiMaggio was a unique case, too. Back then, upon retirement, a player was immediately eligible. Rumors circulated prior to the 54 balloting, that if DiMaggio was elected, the Pirates would sign him to a lucrative contract as a gate attraction. The suppressed his vote totals that year and the next. I guess by 56, the voters were convinced the Joe was not coming back. In the meantime, the HOF instituted the 5-year waiting rule (albeit with an exception that applied only to DiMaggio).

No peculiarities about Aaron or Mays, but by then, this dumb notion of "no one shall be unanimous" had taken root.
Gehrig was still an active player in 1936 so he couldn't be in the charter class of the HOF anyway.Ted Williams had a whole lot of sportswriters PO'd at him for flipping them off repeatedly that they got their revenge by no voting for him.

On and Yankee, give up on the Maz thing. 1960 was a LOOOOOONG time ago. :bag:

 
Past elections also were cited by Ladewski as reasons for submitting a blank ballot. "What makes Gwynn and Ripken so special that they deserve to be unanimous selections?" he wrote. "Walter Johnson, Cy Young and Honus Wagner didn't receive such Hall passes. Neither did Lou Gehrig, Babe Ruth and Ted Williams. In fact, nobody has in the history of the game. Based on the standards set by the Hall of Fame voters decades ago, is there a neutral observer out there who can honestly say Gwynn and Ripken should be afforded an unprecedented honor?"
This is ####### ######ed, and this idiot needs to have his voting rights taken away ASAP.
He was on ESPN radio with Mike & Mike this morning and he came across as a complete tool.
 
The BBWA is comprised of a group of men who, theoretically, are on a power trip. What makes them more qualified to vote than past players/owners, etc..? They cover baseball. I can understand one not being voted for it you feel his accomplishments were illegally enhanced, but to submit a blank ballot is insulting to those who truly deserve to be there. For years now, Cal Ripken and Tony Gwynn were the essence of what a ballplayer should be. Cal playing in his consecutive games streak, always donning the uniform and showing his hard work ethic. Tony Gwynn was the master of slapping the pitch in between short and 3rd for a base hit. It was amazing how he would be down 0-2 in the count and you still felt he was at the advantage. NOBODY waited on a pitch better than Gwynn. I saw an interview with him speaking of how he was able to see the pitchers grip in their glove in their windup and notice the rotation of the ball. The man lived batting.

For the 2 of them to not get 100% is mind-boggling to me, esp when the only reason would be out of pure stubborness.

 
JeffyKeane said:
Ryan was the career leader in walks.
Pure ignorance if this is your reasoning for not believing he's a first-ballot HOF'er.Buy Baseball Between The Numbers by the good people at Baseball Prospectus. You'll be a better :goodposting: for it.
I'll agree with you RE: career record, but the career leader in walks is a concern. Just like batters that can take a walk are underrated, pitchers that can avoid the walk are also underrated. Most hitters get a base hit roughly 26-27% of the time, so there is no reason to give them a free pass unless you absolutely have to.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
JeffyKeane said:
Ryan was the career leader in walks.
Pure ignorance if this is your reasoning for not believing he's a first-ballot HOF'er.Buy Baseball Between The Numbers by the good people at Baseball Prospectus. You'll be a better :cry: for it.
I'll agree with you RE: career record, but the career leader in walks is a concern. Just like batters that can take a walk are underrated, pitchers that can avoid the walk are also underrated. Most hitters get a base hit roughly 26-27% of the time, so there is no reason to give them a free pass unless you absolutely have to.
It's kind of like Jim Thome's career as a hitter; he'll whiff 100-120 times a year, but he'll also take about the same number of walks. It's not like he's Rob Deer or Pete Incaviglia who'll strike out 140 times with about 20-30 walks. I don't have Ryan's numbers handy, but if his WHIP was around 1.3-1.4, the walks wouldn't matter too awful much as there would about the same number of runners on base per inning. To the OP, Bill Conlin from Philly also had to draw attention to himself several years ago when he decreed that Nolan Ryan was not worthy of being a first-ballot HOFer. Every couple of years, some misfit, hack sportswriter's gotta make a name for himself by :angry: and saying something controversial. They get their 10 minutes and hopefully they get syndicated.

 
JeffyKeane said:
Ryan was the career leader in walks.
Pure ignorance if this is your reasoning for not believing he's a first-ballot HOF'er.Buy Baseball Between The Numbers by the good people at Baseball Prospectus. You'll be a better :popcorn: for it.
I'll agree with you RE: career record, but the career leader in walks is a concern. Just like batters that can take a walk are underrated, pitchers that can avoid the walk are also underrated. Most hitters get a base hit roughly 26-27% of the time, so there is no reason to give them a free pass unless you absolutely have to.
It's kind of like Jim Thome's career as a hitter; he'll whiff 100-120 times a year, but he'll also take about the same number of walks. It's not like he's Rob Deer or Pete Incaviglia who'll strike out 140 times with about 20-30 walks. I don't have Ryan's numbers handy, but if his WHIP was around 1.3-1.4, the walks wouldn't matter too awful much as there would about the same number of runners on base per inning.
Quite frankly, a career mark of 4.67 BB/9 is pretty pathetic for a HOF pitcher. Granted, some of his other numbers are phenomenal. I still think his BB numbers are a valid argument against Ryan. PS- The Jim Thome example is awful. A hitter's K rate and a pitcher's BB rate have very little to compare. A hitter can have a high K rate and still be very successful, rarely can a pitcher have a high BB rate and be successful. Ryan is the exception, not the rule.

 
Gehrig was still an active player in 1936 so he couldn't be in the charter class of the HOF anyway.
he was active into the 39 season, but there were no rules against active players. 8 active players got votes in that first ballot. But the point remains - given the bulk of candidates on that first ballot, it shouldn't be used as an example as to why a voter today would not want someone to be unanimous.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top