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HBO - Song of Ice&Fire Series -Varsity Thread - no TV only whiners (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter Sabertooth
- Start date
jplvr
Footballguy
I got absolutely nothing else done those weeks, that's for sure. I was still going into the office back then too, and just sat there reading at my desk unless something was pressing.
By the end of that year, I had read all of those, Hobbit and all of the LOTR books, Shantaram which is like 1000 pages itself... I was never a recreational reader, but when I started, I picked some long books and read about 30 that year.
I feel like the show hit all the major beats that GRRM intended but if he ever finishes the books (hahaha, I know) maybe it won’t feel so rushed and the characters/story will “earn” it more. For one quick example, maybe Bran actually contributes “something” to the defeat of the white walkers instead of just watching the battle from a few crow’s eyes and hanging out as bait.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
So if there is no night king....how do they defeat the dead? Who rides the undead dragon?? Cant all be tv show can it?
Does lady stoneheart take out the freys? Does arya? Does lady stoneheart take berics role vs the undead?
Does cersei/euron happen? Victarion?
Im certain kl gets burnt....and bran ends up king and jon kills danny and wanders the north....
Does lady stoneheart take out the freys? Does arya? Does lady stoneheart take berics role vs the undead?
Does cersei/euron happen? Victarion?
Im certain kl gets burnt....and bran ends up king and jon kills danny and wanders the north....
EYLive
Footballguy
Martin might be clever enough to provide a story "bad" outline HBO, let them finish the show poorly, then save the "good" story/ending for his books to appease us
s.At this point, it's all I can hope for.
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
I feel like the books will build a connection between Jon Snow and the true north. Maybe via warging when he dies. Maybe via love for Ygritte and the wildlings. Maybe to protect the realm from the white walkers again at a later time. But something that makes it powerful that he ends up there rather than on the throne.
I assume Bran wont be such a useless person with no human feelings prior to being elected king as well.
Grrm will get us to 90% of the same places, but it will make more sense.
I assume Bran wont be such a useless person with no human feelings prior to being elected king as well.
Grrm will get us to 90% of the same places, but it will make more sense.
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
I think the shows passing him bogged down his style. I think Winds is almost done. Hopefully he gets on a roll after untying knots and A Dream of Spring comes out faster.
I mentioned this in the other thread, but to get to where the show ended from where Book 5 ends, it seems to me like it would take more than the two books he has planned. At least if he continues moving at the same pace the books have historically moved.
Gr00vus
Footballguy
He'd have to really streamline closing out some of the plot lines he's started that don't seem that close to the trunk of the story to get it down to 2 books.
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Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
I mean let’s think about all the lines that didn’t make it into the show or that the show started on but didn’t finish properly that could impact the endings.
Faceless man in citadel
sand snake at citadel
lady stone heart
whole Dorne thing
young griff
jon snow lineage/warging
greyjoy brothers
Faceless man in citadel
sand snake at citadel
lady stone heart
whole Dorne thing
young griff
jon snow lineage/warging
greyjoy brothers
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
Thunderlips
Footballguy
Most of the book stuff can easily be folded into what we know from the show.
Someone smarter than me please do it.
Someone smarter than me please do it.
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
Yea, you can kind of see where certain things morphed together but there are some major points that play into the more overarching stuff that was ignored completely.
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Gr00vus
Footballguy
How can you forget Quaithe!?!? From Qarth even!?!?Quaithe
I'd completely forgotten about that.
And let's also not forget all the Mezmo Mo Sleestak characters from Mereen.
Daario of course - kicked to the curb for reals.
I kinda laughed at them bothering to identify Homeless Harry Strickland as the commander of the Golden Company in the show - the only point had to be gratifying/tweaking the book readers.
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bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
I think she was in the show for a moment....then cut....
I'd completely forgotten about that.
Nearly impossible to go verbatium with the books....or any books for that matter..... ths gist of the story played out...
I dont think stoneheart....the iron bank ....young griff....being gone make a big deal....
Hound v brienne and hound v mountain probably dont happen in the books....the show expanded brienne and the hounds role greatly
Sansa arc was good too...
Varys if you recall kills kevan lannister n pycelle...while illryio has tyrion across the sea
Thunderlips
Footballguy
If Euron was important enough to have him in the show (albeit in a different form)....I'd imagine he's REALLY important in the books. Does he have the Dragon Binding Horn? If so, she could lose a dragon to him AND the wall still could be brought down by The Horn of Winter. That would kind of get past two sticking show points.
Bob Sacamano
Footballguy
pours one out for strong belwas
It’s been awhile since I read it but the whole Stannis arc seemed to be pretty different in the books too. I recall him being much more savvy and not the type to burn his daughter alive.
Uruk-Hai
Footballguy
Gr00vus
Footballguy
Probably - I'm not sure where things were going to go with him in the books either though. I'd like to think he'll put in a better showing there.
jplvr
Footballguy
I think he was clearly going to get a redemption arc, and likely not going to be made out to be a bumbling idiot down the stretch. If Bran is going to sit on the throne with Tyrion giving the speech, I'm guessing Martin won't spend a couple of books telling us how stupid he has become.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
Gr00vus
Footballguy
I think he's still in a tricky spot narrative wise being Dany's adviser (I'm assuming that he fills that role in the books too to some degree). There's going to be some sort of falling out at some point, and the question will be how Martin executes it - Tyrion making stupid mistakes, or realizing earlier she's cracked and working against her regaining the throne? I hope we find out.
jplvr
Footballguy
I think he would/will not be written as a dumb. D&D chose to empower certain types of characters more than others like Jon and Tyrion who were written as dimwits for a while.
I’m doubtful about finding out. I was hopeful we would get some sort of announcement out of Martin already. Rumors that he’s working hard to get out the next book will probably result in another preview chapter being released from some POV character never used previously.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
I didn't buy Dany's heel turn one bit. Should have been foreshadowed much more. She basically decided to throw everything away because her smoking hot consort/lesbo lover was killed?
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Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
Grrm had a nice blog post. He is working on a million things which makes me worry, but he also said “winter is coming” so I think we are close to Winds being ready. He estimated 5000 manuscript pages between both remaining books.
Thunderlips
Footballguy
Is it a straight heel turn though? She becomes less Charles Xavier and more Magneto (she realizes that her ends totally justify any means she needs to accomplish them).....but I don't think she's become irredeemable.
There wasn't time in the TV series, and probably won't be time in the books either.Sabertooth said:
The plot calls for Daenerys to bring her Dragons to Winterfell to fight for the living - so, at least until that point, she will be portrayed as the heroine, who we are all rooting for - because we have overlooked her vindictive actions in the past. Its not until she sees Jon as a threat to the throne that she will show her vindictiveness towards characters we also identify as "heros". Even in the books, there probably is not a lot of time between Winterfell and Kings Landing. We may get more detailed insights into her thoughts if she has a POV chapter, or we may see them via Sansa/Arya/Jon - or even Samwell.
I do think that with the show out of the way, all of Daenerys' actions will be scrutinized a bit more in the books, and with the benefit of hindight, it will be easier to spot that she was always a bit flawed.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Her look at Cersei right before her burning of the city was one of hate and anger, not resignation. That signified emotion over logic or altruism to me.Thunderlips said:
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Thunderlips
Footballguy
I guess I'm having a harder time just accepting that what she did is just out of Targ craziness. Stannis was going to destroy the city. Robert went to war and sacked the city. Cersei was using the citizens as a shield. For a story that very much seems to accept the idea that people of power have to do unsavory things to accomplish their goals (noble or immoral).....just reducing her to "crazy" isn't that interesting.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
D&D said post-episode that it wasn't planned, and on the wall Dany decided to "make it personal". Not sure how to take that. Not crazy, not planned, and not really a conqueror sacking a city.
sn0mm1s
Footballguy
I could definitely see him burning his kid in the book.thecatch said:
Pretty sure Varys was neutered well before the first episode.Gr00vus said:
Yeah, even avid book readers weren't buying a Dany heel turn when ADWD was released.Sabertooth said:
Piss poor job by D&D IMO.
I liked Dinklage's speech to Jon, basically we cheered her previous ruthless actions because they were against evil men and basically overlooked how ruthless they were. Based on her experiences, anyone that sides with or tolerates a tyrant is equally as guilty. In Mereen and all the other cities she slaughtered the Masters and sacked the city, anyone that wasn't a slave was guilty. When she gets to King's Landing there may not be any slaves but there are thousands of people in her opinion that are tolerating Cersei's rule despite her being an obvious tyrant and madwomen. Since they weren't willing to rise up and support her they were just as guilty as Cersei. I think you can see this attitude better expressed by Grey Worm talking about the free men Lannister soldiers, IIRC he expressed the same feelings he did in a prior episode that he did just before executing those soldiers about how someone who was free and chose to fought on the other side were equally as guilty.
As for D&D saying she just made a snap decision, bleh. First thing I said when they were planning the attack and Tyrion tells her about the Bells, she tells Greyworm "you will know what to do" or something like that, I turned to my wife and said "she's gonna torch them all anyway."
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
PER ELIO & LINDA’S TWITTER:
WINDS OF WINTER 8.19.2021
WINDS OF WINTER 8.19.2021
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
Nevermind. False alarm and a bait and switch. Unfollow!
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
Wow they blocked me for calling them out on a bait and switch. I had already unfollowed them, but wow.
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
They run westeros.org which even GRRM uses to fact check himself. They helped write the big coffee table books as well.
They tweeted something out this morning with a date saying something was traveling on the winds ... of winter?
E Street Brat
Footballguy
Sad
Buckychudd
Footballguy
Good news!
Winds of Winter is finished!
Winds of Winter is finished!
AAABatteries
Footballguy
I stayed out of the GoT threads for the most part because I never really watched the shows.
Is there ANY chance that we get Winds of Winter?
Is there ANY chance that we get Winds of Winter?
