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HBO - Song of Ice&Fire Series -Varsity Thread - no TV only whiners

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So i'm a fan of the Arya Stark character, does she play a significant role in the story, or is she more of a fringe character?ETA: I guess my question is also is this a character worth caring about, or will she be gone soon?

she is a main character. None of the main characters are safe.

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So i'm a fan of the Arya Stark character, does she play a significant role in the story, or is she more of a fringe character?ETA: I guess my question is also is this a character worth caring about, or will she be gone soon?

she is a main character. None of the main characters are safe.
Arya gets a lot of print though.

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Plus the dialogue in the books is fantastic. So is the first person POV. You get a lot more into the feelings of the characters. Such as Snow's rocky relationship with Cat. I really can't beleive they sliced Tyrion's line about "all dwarves are bastards, but not all bastards need be dwarves." That line really solidified Tyrion as a friend and comrade of Jon's.

:thumbup:
The Character POV device is one of the cool literary tools used by Martin that can't be effectively carried over into a film version, and one of the reasons I don't expect to be nearly as interested in the televised series. I had never read a book that used that mechanism before. I remember discovering early in the series not to trust things that seemed to be facts from one POV, because different POV characters have different beliefs and observations regarding the same events. I recall once reading Martin say he could never use Howland Reed as a POV character because he "knows too much".
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Plus the dialogue in the books is fantastic. So is the first person POV. You get a lot more into the feelings of the characters. Such as Snow's rocky relationship with Cat. I really can't beleive they sliced Tyrion's line about "all dwarves are bastards, but not all bastards need be dwarves." That line really solidified Tyrion as a friend and comrade of Jon's.

:thumbup:
The Character POV device is one of the cool literary tools used by Martin that can't be effectively carried over into a film version, and one of the reasons I don't expect to be nearly as interested in the televised series. I had never read a book that used that mechanism before. I remember discovering early in the series not to trust things that seemed to be facts from one POV, because different POV characters have different beliefs and observations regarding the same events. I recall once reading Martin say he could never use Howland Reed as a POV character because he "knows too much".
Rashomon disagrees.

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Plus the dialogue in the books is fantastic. So is the first person POV. You get a lot more into the feelings of the characters. Such as Snow's rocky relationship with Cat. I really can't beleive they sliced Tyrion's line about "all dwarves are bastards, but not all bastards need be dwarves." That line really solidified Tyrion as a friend and comrade of Jon's.

:thumbup:
The Character POV device is one of the cool literary tools used by Martin that can't be effectively carried over into a film version, and one of the reasons I don't expect to be nearly as interested in the televised series. I had never read a book that used that mechanism before. I remember discovering early in the series not to trust things that seemed to be facts from one POV, because different POV characters have different beliefs and observations regarding the same events. I recall once reading Martin say he could never use Howland Reed as a POV character because he "knows too much".
The device is good, I like it. But I think it's backfired quite a bit by the massive delay in getting book 5 out since book 4 and 5 are the same time frame, but only half the characters. While the new book will undoubtedly be great, the timeframe doesn't move forward at all and the ultimate fate of some characters and events are already known. With such a delay, I'd much rather it be between time frames, not between characters.

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Plus the dialogue in the books is fantastic. So is the first person POV. You get a lot more into the feelings of the characters. Such as Snow's rocky relationship with Cat. I really can't beleive they sliced Tyrion's line about "all dwarves are bastards, but not all bastards need be dwarves." That line really solidified Tyrion as a friend and comrade of Jon's.

:thumbup:
The Character POV device is one of the cool literary tools used by Martin that can't be effectively carried over into a film version, and one of the reasons I don't expect to be nearly as interested in the televised series. I had never read a book that used that mechanism before. I remember discovering early in the series not to trust things that seemed to be facts from one POV, because different POV characters have different beliefs and observations regarding the same events. I recall once reading Martin say he could never use Howland Reed as a POV character because he "knows too much".
Rashomon disagrees.
Not the same thing. Rashomon presents several different viewpoints of one particular event, and the viewer is left to figure out what to make of them. A Song of Ice and Fire uses, for the most part, different viewpoints of countless events, all presented as truth as the characters see them.

Martin's device could be feasible in film, but this isn't a good match.

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But I think it's backfired quite a bit by the massive delay in getting book 5 out since book 4 and 5 are the same time frame, but only half the characters. While the new book will undoubtedly be great, the timeframe doesn't move forward at all and the ultimate fate of some characters and events are already known. With such a delay, I'd much rather it be between time frames, not between characters.

The first half of Book Five will run concurrent with Book Four, then the timeline moves forward.

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/5960-a-dance-with-dragons-the-latest-info-inc-pub-date/'>Link

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But I think it's backfired quite a bit by the massive delay in getting book 5 out since book 4 and 5 are the same time frame, but only half the characters. While the new book will undoubtedly be great, the timeframe doesn't move forward at all and the ultimate fate of some characters and events are already known. With such a delay, I'd much rather it be between time frames, not between characters.

The first half of Book Five will run concurrent with Book Four, then the timeline moves forward.

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/5960-a-dance-with-dragons-the-latest-info-inc-pub-date/'>Link

Thanks. That'll ease the sting a bit (maybe more than a bit) but I still am not sure going back in time to catch up other characters works as well as it could when there's such a long wait between books.

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I'm officially hooked.

Great shows make you care about the characters. (either because you love them or because you hate them).

This show has done that for me for half a dozen characters already.

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Great shows make you care about the characters. (either because you love them or because you hate them).

:goodposting: It definitely leads you to truly dislike a few already.

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I'm glad people are liking it, but this episode seemed very sloppy to me. Probably stuff most wouldn't notice but to me is sloppy filmmaking. Especially the background actors who were very clearly going through motions slowly trying not to make any noise (Dothraki skinning rabbit, stirring cookpot, blacksmith with Needle etc). And they even re-used shots of the Dothraki in two different scenes. Other cheats like Cat's hands getting sliced badly but in the next scene she's using them to scour the ground and deftly pick up one strand of hair. I guess it just lacks the grit of the books and I wonder how people who've never read the books will actually like it for all it's clunkiness.

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Great shows make you care about the characters. (either because you love them or because you hate them).

:goodposting: It definitely leads you to truly dislike a few already.
I know we're supposed to, but I really ####### hate Joffrey. Great casting.

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The casting is fantastic. Speaking of villians, does Sansa qualify as a villian? The collateral damage of her deceit is extensive.

Edited by Sabertooth

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Great shows make you care about the characters. (either because you love them or because you hate them).

:goodposting: It definitely leads you to truly dislike a few already.
I know we're supposed to, but I really ####### hate Joffrey. Great casting.
:goodposting:I'm sure there are some I just couldn't think of last night that are more hate-able, but the Queen might be one of the most hate-able characters ever written.

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Great shows make you care about the characters. (either because you love them or because you hate them).

:goodposting: It definitely leads you to truly dislike a few already.
I know we're supposed to, but I really ####### hate Joffrey. Great casting.
:goodposting:I'm sure there are some I just couldn't think of last night that are more hate-able, but the Queen might be one of the most hate-able characters ever written.
Yeah, she's a real piece of work.Characters I really despise include Viserys, Sansa, Joffrey, and Cersei. Jaime is quite a scumbag too.

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After ep 2, I have a feeling there are going to be 2 bad-$$$ chicks in this....Arya and Dany.

So Jamie killed the Targaryen king....while his dad was The Hand?

Obviously the eggs are going to play a big part of this too...judging by the camera time.

The direwolves seem to be a pretty big piece also...where's the white one? Going to the Wall also?

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The casting is fantastic. Speaking of villians, does Sansa qualify as a villian? The collateral damage of her deceit is extensive.

Never really thought of it that way, but she pays for it almost as much as anyone else does.

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After ep 2, I have a feeling there are going to be 2 bad-$$$ chicks in this....Arya and Dany.So Jamie killed the Targaryen king....while his dad was The Hand?Obviously the eggs are going to play a big part of this too...judging by the camera time.The direwolves seem to be a pretty big piece also...where's the white one? Going to the Wall also?

The eggs will get significant air time, for at least a metaphor's purpose this seasons episodes if they keep the implied pacing. The direwolves are also manifestations to symbolize the health of the Stark house and their attached characters; this was well portrayed in the first episode. The white wolf (Ghost) is indeed under the care of Jon Snow and will accompany him to the wall.As a huge fan of the books, I root for anything arya related, but along with her and dany, Martin makes it a point to introduce strong characters and personalities on all sides of the gender/sexual orientation/belief lines. Other strong female char's will be (if they follow the books) Catelyn, (who did seem toned down, bland and timid at first, but I'm hoping this will improve) Cersei, Brienne, Asha and Melisandre to name a few.ETA: Yes, Jamie did take Aerys' life, but his father (according to the book) was his hand a bit before the rebellion. He didn't take sides when the uprising initially started too. Edited by FattyVM

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After ep 2, I have a feeling there are going to be 2 bad-$$$ chicks in this....Arya and Dany.

So Jamie killed the Targaryen king....while his dad was The Hand?

Obviously the eggs are going to play a big part of this too...judging by the camera time.

The direwolves seem to be a pretty big piece also...where's the white one? Going to the Wall also?

I'm actually surprised at how litle they are part of the story in the series. There's none of the somewhat psychic connection established between the kids and their wolves and the wolves with each other, like how Summer never even whimpered much less going crazy when Lady died. I can understand part of the reason for it. Working with animals is a #####. Most of the time you sit around while they roll the shot about ten times and hope the animal gets near it's mark and does something passable that you can edit around and hope the audience accepts the awkwardness. Sort of like Nic Cage.

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Was busy last weekend, but caught up last night with the 1st and 2nd episodes. Loving it so far, very little deviation from the books (which sucks a little because I often know what's coming.) The 4 people I watched it with haven't read the books and they all seem to really like it. It's hard to hold back and not give them too much information, especially since they seemed to have glossed over a few important things that will hopefully be more fully explained in later episodes such as the significance of the often repeated line "Winter is Coming."

Tyrion is of course a hit, Joffrey is every bit as despicable as he should be, but most of all everyone loves the wolves! I'm surprised they aren't getting more screen time and they didn't focus more on the howling/interconnectedness of them (maybe that's something they will slowly develop over more episodes?) I want to find out what kind of dogs they are using for the wolves, absolutely stunning animals.

I know it's only episode 2 but I find myself impatient for them to explain a lot more and introduce us to some more characters. Boggles the mind how they are going to handle the jousting tournament and the many, many other characters that are first introduced there but aren't important until later on.

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The casting is fantastic. Speaking of villians, does Sansa qualify as a villian? The collateral damage of her deceit is extensive.

Never really thought of it that way, but she pays for it almost as much as anyone else does.
She has already paid a handsome price with the death of Lady.

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I'm hooked as well after only 2 episodes.

Almost done with Book 1 - about a hundred pages left - not the easiest of reads.

Anybody know how many of the books are covered for Season One of the show?

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I'm hooked as well after only 2 episodes.Almost done with Book 1 - about a hundred pages left - not the easiest of reads.Anybody know how many of the books are covered for Season One of the show?

1

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I'm glad people are liking it, but this episode seemed very sloppy to me. Probably stuff most wouldn't notice but to me is sloppy filmmaking. Especially the background actors who were very clearly going through motions slowly trying not to make any noise (Dothraki skinning rabbit, stirring cookpot, blacksmith with Needle etc). And they even re-used shots of the Dothraki in two different scenes. Other cheats like Cat's hands getting sliced badly but in the next scene she's using them to scour the ground and deftly pick up one strand of hair. I guess it just lacks the grit of the books and I wonder how people who've never read the books will actually like it for all it's clunkiness.

Different strokes and all that, but I liked this episode better than the first as it really started cementing the characters. I didn't notice the background stuff you mention so that didn't bother me. I work with someone who is following the show and who hasn't read the books - and he's all into it. He wasn't quite sure what to make of the direwolves/children connection so I fleshed that out a little for him. He also wasn't sure exactly where everyone was in relation to the others (he thought Lady's death was at Winterfell, for instance). Might be kind of cheesy, but maybe they should have used the map to connect scenes for the first few shows. This will probably end up being the most boring episode from an action/plot standpoint as it was basically a moving-the-pieces-into-place piece, though they did get a lot of exposition in that'll be used later without it being too intrusive.So far I think all of the actors are doing a fine job but Bean, Williams (Arya), and Nicholas whatever-his-name-is (Jaime) are really nailing it.

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SO Stark is now at King's Landing? And he brought his daughters but left his sons in Winterfell?

Not there yet, but close. "Yes" to the second question.

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SO Stark is now at King's Landing? And he brought his daughters but left his sons in Winterfell?

Correct. Well, as Urik-Hai says, they are en route. Edited by Mjolnirs

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SO Stark is now at King's Landing? And he brought his daughters but left his sons in Winterfell?

Correct. Well, as Urik-Hai says, they are en route.
That was a little awkwardly handled. I was following fine, and then got confused for a second when Arya was fighting the butcher's son.

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SO Stark is now at King's Landing? And he brought his daughters but left his sons in Winterfell?

Correct. Well, as Urik-Hai says, they are en route.
Bran can't go because of his accident. The eldest has to stay and run everything in his father's absence, the bastard is going to join the Night's Watch (they should have explained a little better that he doesn't really have many other honorable choices in life) and the youngest boy is only 6 years old.One line they really shouldn't have cut from the book was when Jon Snow came to say goodbye to unconcious Bran and Catelyn tells him "that it should have been him." I remember reading that and just going "daaaaammmmmnnnn that's cold."

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SO Stark is now at King's Landing? And he brought his daughters but left his sons in Winterfell?

Correct. Well, as Urik-Hai says, they are en route.
Bran can't go because of his accident. The eldest has to stay and run everything in his father's absence, the bastard is going to join the Night's Watch (they should have explained a little better that he doesn't really have many other honorable choices in life) and the youngest boy is only 6 years old.One line they really shouldn't have cut from the book was when Jon Snow came to say goodbye to unconcious Bran and Catelyn tells him "that it should have been him." I remember reading that and just going "daaaaammmmmnnnn that's cold."
Her hatred for him is telling even in the looks she gives him.

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The casting is fantastic. Speaking of villians, does Sansa qualify as a villian? The collateral damage of her deceit is extensive.

Obviously you have read the books. I am not sure how spoilerish this thread should get, but Sansa is responsible, in whole or part, for much worse down the line. I do not think she is a villain but would be interested what you think.I think they have a very difficult line with her that she has to be real and sympathetic and also you kinfa have to hate her at least a little bit.Signed, An Alayne Stone Fan

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I'm totally hooked. never read the books, so I'm just enjoying going along for the ride. during last night's episode, I got the feeling that Jon Snow is going to end up being a bada##, just not sure if he will end up a good guy or bad guy...probably depends on Tyrion's influence.

and I love the wolves. sad to see one of them go down last night.

oh, and I want to punch Joffrey in the face.

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I'm totally hooked. never read the books, so I'm just enjoying going along for the ride. during last night's episode, I got the feeling that Jon Snow is going to end up being a bada##, just not sure if he will end up a good guy or bad guy...probably depends on Tyrion's influence.and I love the wolves. sad to see one of them go down last night.oh, and I want to punch Joffrey in the face.

This tells me that they're hitting the right notes. I really can't stress enough how good the books are. You'd enjoy them, imo.

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The casting is fantastic. Speaking of villians, does Sansa qualify as a villian? The collateral damage of her deceit is extensive.

Obviously you have read the books. I am not sure how spoilerish this thread should get, but Sansa is responsible, in whole or part, for much worse down the line. I do not think she is a villain but would be interested what you think.I think they have a very difficult line with her that she has to be real and sympathetic and also you kinfa have to hate her at least a little bit.Signed, An Alayne Stone Fan
She's not evil, mean spirited or villainous. She's just dangerously naive. she believes in the golden haired knight and princess fantasy so much that she lets it keep her deluded in the real world with tragic consequences all around. Once her illusions get shattered, I don't think it'll be hard to drum up sympathy for her, but I think they could hammer home the point that she's desirous of the princess fantasy a little more clearly.

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I want to find out what kind of dogs they are using for the wolves, absolutely stunning animals.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Inuit_DogThe actress that plays Sansa adopted Lady.
Another thing I'm not thrilled about is how cuddly cute the wolves are. They're supposed to be these northern direwolves that are bigger and meaner and scarier than normal wolves. These things make Two Socks seem like a savage.I did a show a long time ago about Loki chasing the descendants of King Arthur through a digital world and one day we had wolves that were to be guarding the gates of Hell. I thought, "awesome, I get to see wolves up close", thinking of Two Socks and such. The wolf people brought about 5 in a kennel truck and the director went out and picked the one he wanted. They cleared out the stage, put up a four foot high electrified fence, drove an 8" lag bolt into the stage floor and attached a huge chain and did the same through a giant leg bone of a cow. Then they kept all but the essential crew way in the back of the stage and brought in this beast that was 4' at the shoulders, lean, strong, slavering and HUNGRY. By far the scariest animal I'd ever seen in person, that thing's eyes were yellow and didn't so much look at you but looked through you to see who it was going to eat AFTER he ate you. These cute and cuddly little white-ish wolf dogs, meh.

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I want to find out what kind of dogs they are using for the wolves, absolutely stunning animals.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Inuit_DogThe actress that plays Sansa adopted Lady.
Another thing I'm not thrilled about is how cuddly cute the wolves are. They're supposed to be these northern direwolves that are bigger and meaner and scarier than normal wolves. These things make Two Socks seem like a savage.I did a show a long time ago about Loki chasing the descendants of King Arthur through a digital world and one day we had wolves that were to be guarding the gates of Hell. I thought, "awesome, I get to see wolves up close", thinking of Two Socks and such. The wolf people brought about 5 in a kennel truck and the director went out and picked the one he wanted. They cleared out the stage, put up a four foot high electrified fence, drove an 8" lag bolt into the stage floor and attached a huge chain and did the same through a giant leg bone of a cow. Then they kept all but the essential crew way in the back of the stage and brought in this beast that was 4' at the shoulders, lean, strong, slavering and HUNGRY. By far the scariest animal I'd ever seen in person, that thing's eyes were yellow and didn't so much look at you but looked through you to see who it was going to eat AFTER he ate you. These cute and cuddly little white-ish wolf dogs, meh.
You can not legally work with Wolves in Ireland. Edit to add these are supposed to be less than 4 months old or so. Edited by TeamDingo

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I want to find out what kind of dogs they are using for the wolves, absolutely stunning animals.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Inuit_DogThe actress that plays Sansa adopted Lady.
Another thing I'm not thrilled about is how cuddly cute the wolves are. They're supposed to be these northern direwolves that are bigger and meaner and scarier than normal wolves. These things make Two Socks seem like a savage.I did a show a long time ago about Loki chasing the descendants of King Arthur through a digital world and one day we had wolves that were to be guarding the gates of Hell. I thought, "awesome, I get to see wolves up close", thinking of Two Socks and such. The wolf people brought about 5 in a kennel truck and the director went out and picked the one he wanted. They cleared out the stage, put up a four foot high electrified fence, drove an 8" lag bolt into the stage floor and attached a huge chain and did the same through a giant leg bone of a cow. Then they kept all but the essential crew way in the back of the stage and brought in this beast that was 4' at the shoulders, lean, strong, slavering and HUNGRY. By far the scariest animal I'd ever seen in person, that thing's eyes were yellow and didn't so much look at you but looked through you to see who it was going to eat AFTER he ate you. These cute and cuddly little white-ish wolf dogs, meh.
You can not legally work with Wolves in Ireland. Edit to add these are supposed to be less than 4 months old or so.
Hmmm. Interesting. Hard to argue about the landscape not being perfect for the story, especially since that's where the story's inspiration is, but that kind of sucks to have wolves be so integral to the plot and shoot it where you can't have wolves. Better to have wolf-like dogs than CGI wolves though, by a long shot. I know they're still youngsters but even then people in the books were commenting on their size and ferocity and difference from regular wolves. It's a minor thing that's different from the book that I pretty much steeled myself against before it started, knowing there'd be many, many differences. I just think it's an aesthetic that misses the point of the books.Speaking of differences, how about the Cersei dialog about having a black haired child before Joff... I think they're doing a pretty good job of conducting the mystery that started the whole conflict in a short amount of time and without the benefit of narrative insights. That's one positive difference from the books I can stand behind. I'm really not that impressed with the Dany stuff as of yet, other than last night's sex scenes, those were nice.

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Speaking of differences, how about the Cersei dialog about having a black haired child before Joff... I think they're doing a pretty good job of conducting the mystery that started the whole conflict in a short amount of time and without the benefit of narrative insights. That's one positive difference from the books I can stand behind. I'm really not that impressed with the Dany stuff as of yet, other than last night's sex scenes, those were nice.

I liked Cersei's speech about the kid too. I'm curious where they're going with that, as it could be used to have things play out exactly as they do in the book or use it to go in a slightly different direction without spoiling the overall plot arc (it'll just cast her in a bit of a different light).

Whether she's telling the truth or not

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Speaking of differences, how about the Cersei dialog about having a black haired child before Joff... I think they're doing a pretty good job of conducting the mystery that started the whole conflict in a short amount of time and without the benefit of narrative insights. That's one positive difference from the books I can stand behind. I'm really not that impressed with the Dany stuff as of yet, other than last night's sex scenes, those were nice.

I liked Cersei's speech about the kid too. I'm curious where they're going with that, as it could be used to have things play out exactly as they do in the book or use it to go in a slightly different direction without spoiling the overall plot arc (it'll just cast her in a bit of a different light).

Whether she's telling the truth or not

I would say she is most definitely telling the truth. The whole investigation to Joff's parentage, started by Jon Arryn and resulting in his death, settled on the fact that all of Robert's bastards had his black hair (Arryn's "The seed is strong" from his deathbed) But they don't really have time to go that deep into that so they toss this out to circumvent all of that and use the dead baby to show that all the blonde children aren't Roberts. Unless they plan on fundamentally changing Cersei, there's no other light to show her in.

Most of the changes from the book to the show, I can see why they did it and it doesn't really alter the storyline fundamentally. Just offers up some shortcuts because of time/expositionary constraints.

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Speaking of differences, how about the Cersei dialog about having a black haired child before Joff... I think they're doing a pretty good job of conducting the mystery that started the whole conflict in a short amount of time and without the benefit of narrative insights. That's one positive difference from the books I can stand behind. I'm really not that impressed with the Dany stuff as of yet, other than last night's sex scenes, those were nice.

I liked Cersei's speech about the kid too. I'm curious where they're going with that, as it could be used to have things play out exactly as they do in the book or use it to go in a slightly different direction without spoiling the overall plot arc (it'll just cast her in a bit of a different light).

I would say she is most definitely telling the truth. The whole investigation to Joff's parentage, started by Jon Arryn and resulting in his death, settled on the fact that all of Robert's bastards had his black hair (Arryn's "The seed is strong" from his deathbed) But they don't really have time to go that deep into that so they toss this out to circumvent all of that and use the dead baby to show that all the blonde children aren't Roberts. Unless they plan on fundamentally changing Cersei, there's no other light to show her in.

Most of the changes from the book to the show, I can see why they did it and it doesn't really alter the storyline fundamentally. Just offers up some shortcuts because of time/expositionary constraints.

She makes it clear in AFfC that she has been aborting Robert's children, this seems different.

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Speaking of differences, how about the Cersei dialog about having a black haired child before Joff... I think they're doing a pretty good job of conducting the mystery that started the whole conflict in a short amount of time and without the benefit of narrative insights. That's one positive difference from the books I can stand behind. I'm really not that impressed with the Dany stuff as of yet, other than last night's sex scenes, those were nice.

I liked Cersei's speech about the kid too. I'm curious where they're going with that, as it could be used to have things play out exactly as they do in the book or use it to go in a slightly different direction without spoiling the overall plot arc (it'll just cast her in a bit of a different light).

I would say she is most definitely telling the truth. The whole investigation to Joff's parentage, started by Jon Arryn and resulting in his death, settled on the fact that all of Robert's bastards had his black hair (Arryn's "The seed is strong" from his deathbed) But they don't really have time to go that deep into that so they toss this out to circumvent all of that and use the dead baby to show that all the blonde children aren't Roberts. Unless they plan on fundamentally changing Cersei, there's no other light to show her in.

Most of the changes from the book to the show, I can see why they did it and it doesn't really alter the storyline fundamentally. Just offers up some shortcuts because of time/expositionary constraints.

She makes it clear in AFfC that she has been aborting Robert's children, this seems different.

Like I said, it's a shortcut to show the fact that Robert's kids have black hair and hers and Jamie's are blonde. They won't have time for Eddard to go through all the steps of figuring out what Jon was investigating and go through all the books and whorehouses and such. She may or may not reveal she's been aborting Robert's kids after that first one, but I am quite sure the reason for this revelation is for the reason I stated

Edited by mad sweeney

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Speaking of differences, how about the Cersei dialog about having a black haired child before Joff... I think they're doing a pretty good job of conducting the mystery that started the whole conflict in a short amount of time and without the benefit of narrative insights. That's one positive difference from the books I can stand behind. I'm really not that impressed with the Dany stuff as of yet, other than last night's sex scenes, those were nice.

I liked Cersei's speech about the kid too. I'm curious where they're going with that, as it could be used to have things play out exactly as they do in the book or use it to go in a slightly different direction without spoiling the overall plot arc (it'll just cast her in a bit of a different light).

I would say she is most definitely telling the truth. The whole investigation to Joff's parentage, started by Jon Arryn and resulting in his death, settled on the fact that all of Robert's bastards had his black hair (Arryn's "The seed is strong" from his deathbed) But they don't really have time to go that deep into that so they toss this out to circumvent all of that and use the dead baby to show that all the blonde children aren't Roberts. Unless they plan on fundamentally changing Cersei, there's no other light to show her in.

Most of the changes from the book to the show, I can see why they did it and it doesn't really alter the storyline fundamentally. Just offers up some shortcuts because of time/expositionary constraints.

She makes it clear in AFfC that she has been aborting Robert's children, this seems different.

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Speaking of differences, how about the Cersei dialog about having a black haired child before Joff... I think they're doing a pretty good job of conducting the mystery that started the whole conflict in a short amount of time and without the benefit of narrative insights. That's one positive difference from the books I can stand behind. I'm really not that impressed with the Dany stuff as of yet, other than last night's sex scenes, those were nice.

I liked Cersei's speech about the kid too. I'm curious where they're going with that, as it could be used to have things play out exactly as they do in the book or use it to go in a slightly different direction without spoiling the overall plot arc (it'll just cast her in a bit of a different light).

I would say she is most definitely telling the truth. The whole investigation to Joff's parentage, started by Jon Arryn and resulting in his death, settled on the fact that all of Robert's bastards had his black hair (Arryn's "The seed is strong" from his deathbed) But they don't really have time to go that deep into that so they toss this out to circumvent all of that and use the dead baby to show that all the blonde children aren't Roberts. Unless they plan on fundamentally changing Cersei, there's no other light to show her in.

Most of the changes from the book to the show, I can see why they did it and it doesn't really alter the storyline fundamentally. Just offers up some shortcuts because of time/expositionary constraints.

She makes it clear in AFfC that she has been aborting Robert's children, this seems different.

Like I said, it's a shortcut to show the fact that Robert's kids have black hair and hers and Jamie's are blonde. They won't have time for Eddard to go through all the steps of figuring out what Jon was investigating and go through all the books and whorehouses and such. She may or may not reveal she's been aborting Robert's kids after that first one, but I am quite sure the reason for this revelation is for the reason I stated

By "telling the truth" I meant whether the child died of a "fever" or by something else. Remember that Arryn died from a supposed "fever" too.

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I started reading the first book a few days ago. My original plan was to finish the book entirely before starting the series, but I'm getting antsy. Question to those who have read the first book:

I just finished the chapter where Cat "arrests" Tyrion at the inn on her way back to Winterfell from King's Landing. I don't want the series to "spoil" the book in any way. Am I okay to watch the first two episodes or do I need to read a little further?

Edited by Moe.

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I started reading the first book a few days ago. My original plan was to finish the book entirely before starting the series, but I'm getting antsy. Question to those who have read the first book:

I just finished the chapter where Cat "arrests" Tyrion at the inn on her way back to Winterfell from King's Landing. I don't want the series to "spoil" the book in any way. Am I okay to watch the first two episodes or do I need to read a little further?

You're ahead of the series right now

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