Jason Wood
Zoo York
I don't understand this line of thinking...how is a retread like Norv Turner or Wade Phillips a better option than Ron Rivera?
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Martyball no more? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter trader jake
- Start date
Smith has done a great job as Chargers GM of upgrading the overall talent level. Not sure how anyone could argue otherwise at this point.
But, he does seem like a person who wants a lot of control and is sometimes difficult to work with. Will be interesting to see what type of coaching staff they can put together at this point. If this goes poorly and the team struggles 1 year after going 14-2, he's probably going to take the brunt of the blame.
But, he does seem like a person who wants a lot of control and is sometimes difficult to work with. Will be interesting to see what type of coaching staff they can put together at this point. If this goes poorly and the team struggles 1 year after going 14-2, he's probably going to take the brunt of the blame.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
June Jones & the Run 'n Shoot!
LT = Barry Sanders
Vincent Jackson = Herman Moore
Oh, BTW..... WORST-TO-FIRST in the AFC West, baby!!!
LT = Barry Sanders
Vincent Jackson = Herman Moore
Oh, BTW..... WORST-TO-FIRST in the AFC West, baby!!!
Jason Wood
Zoo York
We were all saying the same thing about Jerry Angelo just a few seasons ago. Even one of his best friends, Nick Saban, wouldn't interview for the job. Angelo was demanding control of the team's assistant coaches and has total control over the draft scouting process. Lovie Smith was a young assistant coach willing to accept the less-than-ideal conditions in order to prove himself, and I'd bet he and Bears fans are thrilled he took the "chance."
trader jake
Footballguy
Before some names emerge from Clayton, Mort, Glazer, etc let's get some predictions out here...
Who will be the Chargers head coach in 2007?
Who will be the Chargers head coach in 2007?
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
In about year 2012
Purple Haze
Footballguy
Jimmy Johnson
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
People need to let this go.Johnson is extremely happy fishing on his boat and doing the NFL pregame show. He's not a "lifer" coach who keeps getting the itch. Like Parcells, for instance. JJ was interviewed during Super Bowl week (I forget by whom -- either Dan Patrick or Jim Rome), and the question of his return to coaching came up. Johnson just laughed and said "no way."You can't even lean on the "Well, you never know... he might do it just for the money." He doesn't need that, either. He has made a number of shrewd investments and he has more money than he'll ever be able to spend.
Parcells!
Jason Wood
Zoo York
RON RIVERA
massraider
Footballguy
Norm Chow.
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
Whoever it is, it's a tough job to take. It's difficult taking over a team that's 14-2 with expectations of winning a SB. It's a lot easier to take over a team like New Orleans. Steve Mariucci went 13-3 his first year and was successful in SF, but never got lots of credit. Whoever takes over this team will be expected to win it all in his first year.
TheLastDispatch
Footballguy
anyone else find this ridiculous?
Air Coryell
Footballguy
Pete Caroll.
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
On the surface I think it's an incredibly stupid move, but I don't have any illusions that I know more about running the football operations of the San Diego Chargers than AJ Smith, either.
I agree that the comparison to Angelo is appropriate, but I don't recall Lovie being hired in mid February after every other team had filled their coaching vacancies.didn't the Raiders go through this similar process last year? that obviously didn't work out too well.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
I actually think Martz is a very good fit here. The Martz/Vermeil system worked wonderfully in KC with a great play at RB, TE, OL and QB. This offense is like the mirror image of Vermeil's Chiefs, so maybe Martz can keep SD's offense afloat without Cameron.
cobalt_27
Footballguy
Rivera doesn't know how to run a 3-4. Teams like Dallas and SD can't afford to make a move to the 4-3 with the talent they have invested in over the past 2-3 years.
Air Coryell
Footballguy
Really? I'd think its almost a dream job, how many coaches will not have anywhere near the talent that this team has. You have the chance to coach likely future hall of famers in LT and Gates. Sure the expectations are high, but at this level you know you're so close to winning a championship.
cobalt_27
Footballguy
Mike Zimmer had never run a 3-4 before either but seemed to do alright with one in Dallas. If Rivera is the guy that Smith wants, I don't think defensive system would be a dealbreaker.
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
Most coaches like to build things. Taking over a bad team, putting your stamp on it and being successful is what coaches are remembered for. What do people think about Barry Switzer?You just don't get much credit for winning in this situation. Now obviously it will attract certain people, and the $$$ will be too great for some assistant to ignore. But in today's coaching world where coaches egos are through the roof, I just don't see it.
For an old guy, this is a great short-term fix. For a young assistant, not so much. That's why Vermeil or Parcells, or guys like Martz or Turner, would probably be happier than some hotshot assistant or college coach. Just my :twocents:
cobalt_27
Footballguy
I think Merriman's future production would disagree with you here.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
I don't see it. Tactically, okay sure. But he is an undisciplined coach, and doesn't strike me as an 'A.J. Smith kinda guy'.... This franchise is crying for a rock-solid, steady commander. Not a flake.
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
Yep. Rivera would be hired to be the Head Coach, not the defensive coordinator.If he is worth his weight as a HC he won't be stuck just using the 4-3.Heck he played in the Chicago 4-6. 4-3/3-4 dont mean squat, unless your the DC. The HC has so many things he has to get correct and this is just one of many things he must be qualified to handle.
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Jon Gruden took over the Bucs and won a title.
someone else could do the same in San Diego. The team is clearly one of the most talented in the league. I think most coaches would love a chance to coach a team with the best player in the league in a place like San Diego.
someone else could do the same in San Diego. The team is clearly one of the most talented in the league. I think most coaches would love a chance to coach a team with the best player in the league in a place like San Diego.
trader jake
Footballguy
That sounds like Jon Gruden
I don't see it (if he goes anywhere it would be to Philly if Reid isn't just taking an absence).**** Vermeil makes a lot of sense to me. 
cobalt_27
Footballguy
So, if he's not bringing in his D system, remind me again why exactly Rivera would be coveted to learn on the job with a team ready to make the jump deep into the playoffs?
Purple Haze
Footballguy
Sounds like the GM is a power hungry SOB that doesn't want to deal with a high profile coach.
San Diego...Mike Tice....Mike Tice....San Diego.
San Diego...Mike Tice....Mike Tice....San Diego.
massraider
Footballguy
Not to mention the three down linemen. They have a great, great 3-4 line right now. If they went to a 3-4, Castillo and Olshansky become rather ordinary. Williams is a beast in any system.BTW, I don't believe for a second that Turner gets a call. Just because JJ interviewed him doesn't mean he's a legit candidate.
the trend these days is having a defense that is flexible and capable of using multiple fronts to confuse offenses. I'm pretty confident that Merriman will be extremely effective and productive in any system he plays in.
cobalt_27
Footballguy
Which is precisely why Rivera won't get the job. Demand is high, and SD could command a much better option than someone with a wrong-fitting defensive system and absolutely no HC experience.
billymays
Footballguy
i agree exceptmartz prefers TEs that look like offensive linemen(max protect guys) but, yeah, im sure he wouldnt mind having gates.another point to bring up-martz was a TE in college for a school in san diego....hmmm........Martz or Norv, that's who'll be coaching your 2007 San Diego SuperChargers.
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
If its just his D' ability, he isnt qualified to be a HC. Is that all he has ever learned as an assistant to become prepared to be a HC, a singular defensive philosophy?You are pigeon hole'ing him.
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cobalt_27
Footballguy
The 3-4 puts him in the optimal system. He'd be fine in another system, sure. But, you don't bottle up pass rushing specialists like LT or Merriman at ROLB with the 4-3.
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
So the entire teams make-up should be geared towards "the juicer".
Not just defensively, but entirely. From the top (HC) all the way down. Wow.
Not just defensively, but entirely. From the top (HC) all the way down. Wow.
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cobalt_27
Footballguy
They're pigeon holes.Anyhoo...with a team like SD, who is marquee, you don't waste the slot on a guy who has no experience. Rivera's only known commodity is that he orchestrated a respectable defense in Chicago. He's possibly ready for prime time as an NFL HC. But, not with a team like SD.
massraider
Footballguy
The correct move to make:
Get the Rooneys on the phone. Make a trade. They need to get a Cowher/Parcells type guy in here.
The reason I say this is that by canning him this late, Smith/Spanos now are on the hot seat. If they hire some retread, and the team goes backwards, they'll have no one to blame.
If they had dropped him a month ago, and promoted Phillips, Charger fans would have been fine with it. And even if he didn't work out, one could rationalize it. "Maintain continuity, and Schotty isn't a playoff guy..."
Get the Rooneys on the phone. Make a trade. They need to get a Cowher/Parcells type guy in here.
The reason I say this is that by canning him this late, Smith/Spanos now are on the hot seat. If they hire some retread, and the team goes backwards, they'll have no one to blame.
If they had dropped him a month ago, and promoted Phillips, Charger fans would have been fine with it. And even if he didn't work out, one could rationalize it. "Maintain continuity, and Schotty isn't a playoff guy..."
redman
Footballguy
The names that make the most sense are Norv Turner and Mike Martz. The interesting thing, though, is that Schottenheimer is more of a defensive minded coach and those two guys are offensive coaches, so I wonder whether they'll want that emphasis changed.
I think Parcells and Jimmy Johnson are retired for good, as is Vermeil. Cowher's going to take his year-plus off, so he's out for now.
Russ Grimm is still only a coordinator, now in AZ, so he potentially could be a candidate.
Wacky candidate suggestion of the day: DeWayne Walker.
I think Parcells and Jimmy Johnson are retired for good, as is Vermeil. Cowher's going to take his year-plus off, so he's out for now.
Russ Grimm is still only a coordinator, now in AZ, so he potentially could be a candidate.
Wacky candidate suggestion of the day: DeWayne Walker.
cobalt_27
Footballguy
I'm just saying with all the other superior options to Rivera out there, I can't understand all the love for a guy with zippo experience and who would neuter the most important cog to that defense.So the entire teams make-up should be geared towards "the juicer".
Not just defensively, but entirely. From the top (HC) all the way down. Wow.
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
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having prior head coaching experience hasn't been a great predictor of success for recent hires around the league.a list just off the top of my head of good recent hires that came in with no head coaching experience:John FoxMarvin LewisEric ManginiSean PaytonAndy ReidLovie SmithJon Gruden (in Oakland)Brian BillickJack Del Riothis looks like a pretty strong list to me. I don't think Mike Martz or Norv Turner or Jim Fassel are necessarily going to do a lot better than Rivera just b/c they have head coaching experience. I'm not even saying that Rivera is likely to get the job here...I just don't think the 4-3/3-4 distinction is that significant. Good coaches can adapt their systems to fit the personnel.
Wheelhouse
Footballguy
Tomlinson = player/coach. "Just give the ball to me"
Serious reply: I could see Mike Martz or Vermeil there in 2007
Serious reply: I could see Mike Martz or Vermeil there in 2007
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
He wont hire a DC to run the defense?I'm just saying with all the other superior options to Rivera out there, I can't understand all the love for a guy with zippo experience and who would neuter the most important cog to that defense.So the entire teams make-up should be geared towards "the juicer".
Not just defensively, but entirely. From the top (HC) all the way down. Wow.
He has no flexibility when it comes to his personell?I just can't believe that.
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