What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

***Official Soccer Discussion Thread*** (4 Viewers)

I know it's passé to root for Mexico, but aside from being dickfaces when playing against the US, I actually like them. Borgetti and are both quality players (Borgetti's a bit long in the tooth) that the US doesn't come close to having.
Borgetti-- :eek: Márquez-- :excited: Borgetti is a pretty typical US type of player- not a lot of skills, but good in the air and tactically sound. Marquez is something more special than anything the US has ever produced.Mexico has a youngster from their U17 WC championship (or did they lose in the championship game?) from a couple years back who was the player of the tourney- simply amazing player (albeit at the U17 level) who I think played today for Mexico.
 
I know it's passé to root for Mexico, but aside from being dickfaces when playing against the US, I actually like them. Borgetti and are both quality players (Borgetti's a bit long in the tooth) that the US doesn't come close to having.
Borgetti-- :lmao: Márquez-- :lmao: Borgetti is a pretty typical US type of player- not a lot of skills, but good in the air and tactically sound. Marquez is something more special than anything the US has ever produced.Mexico has a youngster from their U17 WC championship (or did they lose in the championship game?) from a couple years back who was the player of the tourney- simply amazing player (albeit at the U17 level) who I think played today for Mexico.
:lmao: :banned: Borgetti is no better than mnay US strikers. His foot skills are worse than McBrides and his mobility is very weak. Gooch turned him into his personal ##### during qualifying which showed that his his strength and size are almost useless when match against some one of equal ability. All in all a good striker but I would not take him over any of the US strikers right now and considering how average I think Twellman, EJ, and Ching are, that should tell you something.Marquez on the other hand is a class above. Only Reyna for the US came close to his class and Reyna was simply not healthy enough to match Marquez's quality.El FLoppo, I think you are referring to the kid I was asking about earlier for Mexico. I believe his name is Giovanni Dos Santos and is on the books of Barcelona, although not yet allowed to play due to age restrictions which won't lift until he hits 18. Like you said, he is suppose to be something very special.
 
Right now Borgetti isn't any better than McBride (especially not at 33 years old). However, back in 1998-2001, I would have taken Borgetti over McBride in a heartbeat. His nose for the ball is a bit better and I think he was a much better finisher. I also think McBride tends to disappear in bigger games, but maybe that's a matter of the midfield not being able to pressure the ball up to him than him not being a good striker.

Regardless, neither of them are gonna scare people with the ball at their feet and defenders between them and the goal.

Furthermore, the Mexican team also seems to be regressing from where it was just a few years ago, which is sad. Of course I would like to see the US beat them on a regular basis, but I think that if they continue their slide, it will hurt the US in competitiveness.

 
Considering Borgetti's scored more goals than any other Mexican- or if not, an absolute buttload of them- it's tough to discount him. I would happily take him on the US squad, even with McBride there. But agreeing again with both of you- he's more of US prototypical striker- nose for the goal coming from sound tactics and placement over foot-skills.

Furthermore, the Mexican team also seems to be regressing from where it was just a few years ago, which is sad. Of course I would like to see the US beat them on a regular basis, but I think that if they continue their slide, it will hurt the US in competitiveness
I don't know that they're regressing (although they've looked pretty horrid in the Gold Cup). They've always been a good, not great squad- capable of playing dazzling stuff one day and then embarrassing (usually vs US) the next. But as just posted- their U17s won the 05' WC, and deserved it. Those guys are still young, but they were many leagues over what the US sent to that tourney. Mexico's future is very bright- don't fret for them, or the character/competition-building ###-whomping the US will be in store for for many years to come.
El FLoppo, I think you are referring to the kid I was asking about earlier for Mexico. I believe his name is Giovanni Dos Santos and is on the books of Barcelona, although not yet allowed to play due to age restrictions which won't lift until he hits 18. Like you said, he is suppose to be something very special.
Yeah- that kid was something special... but I actually am remembering (or misremembering) a different player. Dos Santos played in the MF, IIRC (and again- was brilliant)- the guy I'm thinking of played up front and was a complete terror both on and off the ball. Amazing pace, incredible skills and strenght (for a U17) and a nose and drive for the goal... can't remember his name- Vasquez? Cripes... no idea. I think he wore the no. 9 at the WC.eta: maybe it was Dos Santos... my brain- ees no workey. :bag:
 
Last edited by a moderator:
El Floppo said:
1) Is it me or are some of the middle ranked CONCACAF teams looking horrendous? Not that the US is looking great or anything but these teams look abysmal. Of course I always need to remember that these average teams suddenly become 4 times better when the US has to play them in their own stadiums for WCQ
Don't forget that wasn't the real T&T team- just a bunch of scrubs filling in.And sadly- no matter how bad Guatemala and T&T looked- they still controlled posession for stretches against the US, and each of them had legitimate scoring opportunities that would have drastically changed the complexion of each game had they gone in.I also feel that the US was the weaker skilled team each game. They won both games through tactics and fitness, and enough skills to finish a couple of scoring opps- but not because we possess any one player capable of winning a game or creating opportunities for himself.This is completely embarrassing to me, in this day and age. We don't have a single forward who is willing to take a player on, or capable of holding defenders off the ball for more than a touch. Justin Mapp showed a willingness to go at guys, as did Donovan when on the flanks... dunno- maybe this is a tactic by the US to only try and beat guys on the flanks from MF and have the forwards take 2 touches maximum. It pisses me off. :bag:
Any thoughts about this?
 
That the US has no one up top to scare another team one on one? That there's maybe one US player has the ability to beat a defender with the ball at their feet and he continually disappoints against stiff competition? That T&T was a garbage team filled with scrubs from a country of about 1 million people and the US still struggled at times and didn't put them away convincingly? That the "up and coming" and raw CB has his head up his ### on a regular basis and gets played by forwards that can get into his head and cause him to make stupid decisions?

No opinion whatsoever.

 
Speaking of strikers, the US may be razor thin at Copa America.

Donovan does not want to play in Copa

Kenny Cooper is out hurt

Rolfe is out hurt

The U20's strikers (Altidore and Ferreri(sp) will be at the U20 World Cup)

Assuming Ching, EJ and Twellman all remain healthy, I have no idea who else Bradley will bring? Dig deep for Razov or Wolff? Ugh

 
El Floppo said:
1) Is it me or are some of the middle ranked CONCACAF teams looking horrendous? Not that the US is looking great or anything but these teams look abysmal. Of course I always need to remember that these average teams suddenly become 4 times better when the US has to play them in their own stadiums for WCQ
Don't forget that wasn't the real T&T team- just a bunch of scrubs filling in.And sadly- no matter how bad Guatemala and T&T looked- they still controlled posession for stretches against the US, and each of them had legitimate scoring opportunities that would have drastically changed the complexion of each game had they gone in.I also feel that the US was the weaker skilled team each game. They won both games through tactics and fitness, and enough skills to finish a couple of scoring opps- but not because we possess any one player capable of winning a game or creating opportunities for himself.This is completely embarrassing to me, in this day and age. We don't have a single forward who is willing to take a player on, or capable of holding defenders off the ball for more than a touch. Justin Mapp showed a willingness to go at guys, as did Donovan when on the flanks... dunno- maybe this is a tactic by the US to only try and beat guys on the flanks from MF and have the forwards take 2 touches maximum. It pisses me off. :thumbdown:
Any thoughts about this?
Yeah, my thought is that we just aren't as good as we'd like to believe. I know people don't like to say it, but there is really no one right now that can be said to be talented enough for a top 30ish European team besides our keepers. More than anything we're between generations right now. It looks like we have quality younger guys in Feilhaber, Bradley, Simek, Spector, Mapp, etc, but even then none of them have truly made "it" ("it" being a regular first 11 starter for their European club team) and none of the older generation (i.e. guys 24-30) have developed the way they should. At this point in time all of Gooch/ Beasley/Donovan era should have made a dent in Europe, but for whatever reason haven't. The only two guys have been Boca and Howard and that's a keeper and a CB. At this point in the US National Team's development, for our team to be truly able to blow these teams out with regularity, our best players need to be play first choice starters in the top 6 European leagues. Playing in MLS is all well and good for developing the team's depth (which is what we've seen), but for whatever reason, the league is poor at developing anybody creative (and I'm not smart enough to know why).
 
Speaking of strikers, the US may be razor thin at Copa America.Donovan does not want to play in CopaKenny Cooper is out hurtRolfe is out hurtThe U20's strikers (Altidore and Ferreri(sp) will be at the U20 World Cup)Assuming Ching, EJ and Twellman all remain healthy, I have no idea who else Bradley will bring? Dig deep for Razov or Wolff? Ugh
I have a feeling that my question is going to show just how little I know about international soccer, but would Freddie Adu be an option?I'm not sure if he would play for the US in international competition or not, or if he's even a striker. I just know that he was the "next Pele" when he was about 14.
 
Speaking of strikers, the US may be razor thin at Copa America.Donovan does not want to play in CopaKenny Cooper is out hurtRolfe is out hurtThe U20's strikers (Altidore and Ferreri(sp) will be at the U20 World Cup)Assuming Ching, EJ and Twellman all remain healthy, I have no idea who else Bradley will bring? Dig deep for Razov or Wolff? Ugh
I have a feeling that my question is going to show just how little I know about international soccer, but would Freddie Adu be an option?I'm not sure if he would play for the US in international competition or not, or if he's even a striker. I just know that he was the "next Pele" when he was about 14.
He's not a striker plus he's going to be at the U20 WC trying to impress European suitors.
 
El Floppo said:
1) Is it me or are some of the middle ranked CONCACAF teams looking horrendous? Not that the US is looking great or anything but these teams look abysmal. Of course I always need to remember that these average teams suddenly become 4 times better when the US has to play them in their own stadiums for WCQ
Don't forget that wasn't the real T&T team- just a bunch of scrubs filling in.And sadly- no matter how bad Guatemala and T&T looked- they still controlled posession for stretches against the US, and each of them had legitimate scoring opportunities that would have drastically changed the complexion of each game had they gone in.

I also feel that the US was the weaker skilled team each game. They won both games through tactics and fitness, and enough skills to finish a couple of scoring opps- but not because we possess any one player capable of winning a game or creating opportunities for himself.

This is completely embarrassing to me, in this day and age. We don't have a single forward who is willing to take a player on, or capable of holding defenders off the ball for more than a touch. Justin Mapp showed a willingness to go at guys, as did Donovan when on the flanks... dunno- maybe this is a tactic by the US to only try and beat guys on the flanks from MF and have the forwards take 2 touches maximum. It pisses me off. :confused:
Any thoughts about this?
Yeah, my thought is that we just aren't as good as we'd like to believe. I know people don't like to say it, but there is really no one right now that can be said to be talented enough for a top 30ish European team besides our keepers. More than anything we're between generations right now. It looks like we have quality younger guys in Feilhaber, Bradley, Simek, Spector, Mapp, etc, but even then none of them have truly made "it" ("it" being a regular first 11 starter for their European club team) and none of the older generation (i.e. guys 24-30) have developed the way they should. At this point in time all of Gooch/ Beasley/Donovan era should have made a dent in Europe, but for whatever reason haven't. The only two guys have been Boca and Howard and that's a keeper and a CB. At this point in the US National Team's development, for our team to be truly able to blow these teams out with regularity, our best players need to be play first choice starters in the top 6 European leagues. Playing in MLS is all well and good for developing the team's depth (which is what we've seen), but for whatever reason, the league is poor at developing anybody creative (and I'm not smart enough to know why).
Hi Sammy. I had a first hand experience as to why the US doesn't develope a lot of creative players.

My daughter (who is now 11) was a very talented player at a very early age. She was scoring 3 or 4 goals a game at the U7 and U8 levels and was quickly moved up an age group and, eventually, to a club team.

I usually go to outr local park and work with her on ball-handling and dribbling, and she was able to do advanced moves, like scissors, garrinchas, and other "fancy" foot moves.

When she was ten, she joined the club team, which was comprised of all girls who had been together since age eight.

In her second or third game, she had a one-on-one against the sweeper from the other team. She did a step-over to the left and tried to use the outside of her foot to push it right. The defender didn't go for the fake and made a nice tackle to knock teh ball away from my daughter. One of the parents from out team, yelled very loudly onto the field that she should "Quit the fancy footwork and stick to the basics". She was totally embarrassed and went the rest of the season without trying one move. Everything was just very basic. It's like she regressed two years and was afraid to try anything that she knew.

I approached her coach after that game and asked him what his policy was on parents yelling things onto the field during games, and he knew exactly what I was referring to. He said that he certainly doesn't encourage parents to coach from teh sidelines, but that he believed in the basics and team tactics and agreed with the parent that there was no place for the "fancy footwork". It was later announced that the team was getting a new trainer/coach or my daughter wouldn't be playing there, anymore.

Now, I'm not sure how my story relates to the rest of the youth soccer in the US, but if kids are discouraged from using their moves for fear of failing or getting reprimanded, it would certainly explain why we have no ballhandlers like Ronaldhino or Christiano Ronaldo coming from our feeder programs.

 
El Floppo said:
1) Is it me or are some of the middle ranked CONCACAF teams looking horrendous? Not that the US is looking great or anything but these teams look abysmal. Of course I always need to remember that these average teams suddenly become 4 times better when the US has to play them in their own stadiums for WCQ
Don't forget that wasn't the real T&T team- just a bunch of scrubs filling in.And sadly- no matter how bad Guatemala and T&T looked- they still controlled posession for stretches against the US, and each of them had legitimate scoring opportunities that would have drastically changed the complexion of each game had they gone in.

I also feel that the US was the weaker skilled team each game. They won both games through tactics and fitness, and enough skills to finish a couple of scoring opps- but not because we possess any one player capable of winning a game or creating opportunities for himself.

This is completely embarrassing to me, in this day and age. We don't have a single forward who is willing to take a player on, or capable of holding defenders off the ball for more than a touch. Justin Mapp showed a willingness to go at guys, as did Donovan when on the flanks... dunno- maybe this is a tactic by the US to only try and beat guys on the flanks from MF and have the forwards take 2 touches maximum. It pisses me off. :goodposting:
Any thoughts about this?
Yeah, my thought is that we just aren't as good as we'd like to believe. I know people don't like to say it, but there is really no one right now that can be said to be talented enough for a top 30ish European team besides our keepers. More than anything we're between generations right now. It looks like we have quality younger guys in Feilhaber, Bradley, Simek, Spector, Mapp, etc, but even then none of them have truly made "it" ("it" being a regular first 11 starter for their European club team) and none of the older generation (i.e. guys 24-30) have developed the way they should. At this point in time all of Gooch/ Beasley/Donovan era should have made a dent in Europe, but for whatever reason haven't. The only two guys have been Boca and Howard and that's a keeper and a CB. At this point in the US National Team's development, for our team to be truly able to blow these teams out with regularity, our best players need to be play first choice starters in the top 6 European leagues. Playing in MLS is all well and good for developing the team's depth (which is what we've seen), but for whatever reason, the league is poor at developing anybody creative (and I'm not smart enough to know why).
Hi Sammy. I had a first hand experience as to why the US doesn't develope a lot of creative players.

My daughter (who is now 11) was a very talented player at a very early age. She was scoring 3 or 4 goals a game at the U7 and U8 levels and was quickly moved up an age group and, eventually, to a club team.

I usually go to outr local park and work with her on ball-handling and dribbling, and she was able to do advanced moves, like scissors, garrinchas, and other "fancy" foot moves.

When she was ten, she joined the club team, which was comprised of all girls who had been together since age eight.

In her second or third game, she had a one-on-one against the sweeper from the other team. She did a step-over to the left and tried to use the outside of her foot to push it right. The defender didn't go for the fake and made a nice tackle to knock teh ball away from my daughter. One of the parents from out team, yelled very loudly onto the field that she should "Quit the fancy footwork and stick to the basics". She was totally embarrassed and went the rest of the season without trying one move. Everything was just very basic. It's like she regressed two years and was afraid to try anything that she knew.

I approached her coach after that game and asked him what his policy was on parents yelling things onto the field during games, and he knew exactly what I was referring to. He said that he certainly doesn't encourage parents to coach from teh sidelines, but that he believed in the basics and team tactics and agreed with the parent that there was no place for the "fancy footwork". It was later announced that the team was getting a new trainer/coach or my daughter wouldn't be playing there, anymore.

Now, I'm not sure how my story relates to the rest of the youth soccer in the US, but if kids are discouraged from using their moves for fear of failing or getting reprimanded, it would certainly explain why we have no ballhandlers like Ronaldhino or Christiano Ronaldo coming from our feeder programs.
no matter how many times I read this, it still hurts. :mellow: And I know this goes on all over the country. Coaches who care more about winning at age 13 than letting a player develop his skill.

Had Clint Dempsey ended up in one of about a million different teams growing up, they would have told him the exact same thing your daughter was told. Luckily he landed with a coach who could tell the difference.

 
Yeah, my thought is that we just aren't as good as we'd like to believe. I know people don't like to say it, but there is really no one right now that can be said to be talented enough for a top 30ish European team besides our keepers. More than anything we're between generations right now. It looks like we have quality younger guys in Feilhaber, Bradley, Simek, Spector, Mapp, etc, but even then none of them have truly made "it" ("it" being a regular first 11 starter for their European club team) and none of the older generation (i.e. guys 24-30) have developed the way they should. At this point in time all of Gooch/ Beasley/Donovan era should have made a dent in Europe, but for whatever reason haven't. The only two guys have been Boca and Howard and that's a keeper and a CB.
Good and very accurate post.Personally I think Landon is more than talented enough but for what ever reason he does not want to play in Europe.

I refuse to believe that Dempsey will be anything but successful once he gets his chance.

And Convey really should be considered having "made it" by your definition as he was perhaps one of the most important players on his team before he got hurt. The year before his team was promoted he was ranked by 4-4-2 as one of the top ten players in the entire Championship (the level below EPL).

Other players who would fall into the "made it" category would be Steve Cherundolo and Jay Demerit.

And I would be remiss if I went more than a couple of posts with out mentioning that Europe has hurt as many of our players as it has helped. I in no way buy into the "go to Europe and automatically get better" stuff. If you can make it there, great, if not, I have seen too many players are watching their skills erode while picking splinters out of their butt.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Yeah, my thought is that we just aren't as good as we'd like to believe. I know people don't like to say it, but there is really no one right now that can be said to be talented enough for a top 30ish European team besides our keepers. More than anything we're between generations right now. It looks like we have quality younger guys in Feilhaber, Bradley, Simek, Spector, Mapp, etc, but even then none of them have truly made "it" ("it" being a regular first 11 starter for their European club team) and none of the older generation (i.e. guys 24-30) have developed the way they should. At this point in time all of Gooch/ Beasley/Donovan era should have made a dent in Europe, but for whatever reason haven't. The only two guys have been Boca and Howard and that's a keeper and a CB.
Good and very accurate post.Personally I think Landon is more than talented enough but for what ever reason he does not want to play in Europe.

I refuse to believe that Dempsey will be anything but successful once he gets his chance.

And Convey really should be considered having "made it" by your definition as he was perhaps one of the most important players on his team before he got hurt. The year before his team was promoted he was ranked by 4-4-2 as one of the top ten players in the entire Championship (the level below EPL).

Other players who would fall into the "made it" category would be Steve Cherundolo and Jay Demerit.

And I would be remiss if I went more than a couple of posts with out mentioning that Europe has hurt as many of our players as it has helped. I in no way buy into the "go to Europe and automatically get better" stuff. If you can make it there, great, if not, I have seen too many players are watching their skills erode while picking splinters out of their butt.
Well none of those guys are on top sides either. Hannover, Fulham, and Reading are all fine and good, but its not like Germany and England build their national teams from players on those club teams. Until we have a half a dozen or so guys playing top-tier soccer on top teams on a consistent basis, we just won't be that good on an international basis. This is also one of the reasons I'm becoming more and more dissappointed we went with Bradley. It's pretty evident if you step back and look at the state of the program that something is wrong in the development process (and that includes MLS/sending kids to Europe/etc.) and that someone who knows what they are doing needs to be hired. It's also pretty evident to me looking back over the past 5-7 years that MLS coaches in general are pretty bad at identifying and developing whatever young American talent they are given. Promoting Bradley (granted he is the best there was of the MLS coaches, but that may just mean he's the best of the worst) did nothing to change that dynamic.

 
Well none of those guys are on top sides either. Hannover, Fulham, and Reading are all fine and good, but its not like Germany and England build their national teams from players on those club teams. Until we have a half a dozen or so guys playing top-tier soccer on top teams on a consistent basis, we just won't be that good on an international basis.
I agree but I was just basing my comments on your algorithm "but even then none of them have truly made "it" ("it" being a regular first 11 starter for their European club team)"
 
That the US has no one up top to scare another team one on one? That there's maybe one US player has the ability to beat a defender with the ball at their feet and he continually disappoints against stiff competition? That T&T was a garbage team filled with scrubs from a country of about 1 million people and the US still struggled at times and didn't put them away convincingly? That the "up and coming" and raw CB has his head up his ### on a regular basis and gets played by forwards that can get into his head and cause him to make stupid decisions?

No opinion whatsoever.
:hifive: No opinion at all? C'mon, GB- spit it out...

 
El Floppo said:
1) Is it me or are some of the middle ranked CONCACAF teams looking horrendous? Not that the US is looking great or anything but these teams look abysmal. Of course I always need to remember that these average teams suddenly become 4 times better when the US has to play them in their own stadiums for WCQ
Don't forget that wasn't the real T&T team- just a bunch of scrubs filling in.And sadly- no matter how bad Guatemala and T&T looked- they still controlled posession for stretches against the US, and each of them had legitimate scoring opportunities that would have drastically changed the complexion of each game had they gone in.

I also feel that the US was the weaker skilled team each game. They won both games through tactics and fitness, and enough skills to finish a couple of scoring opps- but not because we possess any one player capable of winning a game or creating opportunities for himself.

This is completely embarrassing to me, in this day and age. We don't have a single forward who is willing to take a player on, or capable of holding defenders off the ball for more than a touch. Justin Mapp showed a willingness to go at guys, as did Donovan when on the flanks... dunno- maybe this is a tactic by the US to only try and beat guys on the flanks from MF and have the forwards take 2 touches maximum. It pisses me off. :lmao:
Any thoughts about this?
Yeah, my thought is that we just aren't as good as we'd like to believe. I know people don't like to say it, but there is really no one right now that can be said to be talented enough for a top 30ish European team besides our keepers. More than anything we're between generations right now. It looks like we have quality younger guys in Feilhaber, Bradley, Simek, Spector, Mapp, etc, but even then none of them have truly made "it" ("it" being a regular first 11 starter for their European club team) and none of the older generation (i.e. guys 24-30) have developed the way they should. At this point in time all of Gooch/ Beasley/Donovan era should have made a dent in Europe, but for whatever reason haven't. The only two guys have been Boca and Howard and that's a keeper and a CB. At this point in the US National Team's development, for our team to be truly able to blow these teams out with regularity, our best players need to be play first choice starters in the top 6 European leagues. Playing in MLS is all well and good for developing the team's depth (which is what we've seen), but for whatever reason, the league is poor at developing anybody creative (and I'm not smart enough to know why).
Hi Sammy. I had a first hand experience as to why the US doesn't develope a lot of creative players.

My daughter (who is now 11) was a very talented player at a very early age. She was scoring 3 or 4 goals a game at the U7 and U8 levels and was quickly moved up an age group and, eventually, to a club team.

I usually go to outr local park and work with her on ball-handling and dribbling, and she was able to do advanced moves, like scissors, garrinchas, and other "fancy" foot moves.

When she was ten, she joined the club team, which was comprised of all girls who had been together since age eight.

In her second or third game, she had a one-on-one against the sweeper from the other team. She did a step-over to the left and tried to use the outside of her foot to push it right. The defender didn't go for the fake and made a nice tackle to knock teh ball away from my daughter. One of the parents from out team, yelled very loudly onto the field that she should "Quit the fancy footwork and stick to the basics". She was totally embarrassed and went the rest of the season without trying one move. Everything was just very basic. It's like she regressed two years and was afraid to try anything that she knew.

I approached her coach after that game and asked him what his policy was on parents yelling things onto the field during games, and he knew exactly what I was referring to. He said that he certainly doesn't encourage parents to coach from teh sidelines, but that he believed in the basics and team tactics and agreed with the parent that there was no place for the "fancy footwork". It was later announced that the team was getting a new trainer/coach or my daughter wouldn't be playing there, anymore.

Now, I'm not sure how my story relates to the rest of the youth soccer in the US, but if kids are discouraged from using their moves for fear of failing or getting reprimanded, it would certainly explain why we have no ballhandlers like Ronaldhino or Christiano Ronaldo coming from our feeder programs.
no matter how many times I read this, it still hurts. :lmao: And I know this goes on all over the country. Coaches who care more about winning at age 13 than letting a player develop his skill.

Had Clint Dempsey ended up in one of about a million different teams growing up, they would have told him the exact same thing your daughter was told. Luckily he landed with a coach who could tell the difference.
:goodposting: .... :unsure: .... :lmao: Terrible, but all too familar story Junior. I genuinely hope you get your daughter someplace where she can learn and have fun while being allowed to fail while trying to improve herself (and her team...).

This was essentially my story as well- I was a hotshot, but raw, goal-scorer until a couple of factors came into play: my club team got a new coach, who was and is the winningest college coach in US history- amazing teacher, but continously yelled things like "hot dog!" and "Yo-yo!" at me when I did the "non-fundamental" thing on attack- until I caved in and played his way. Made for less mistakes on my part, but also less goals and less freedom in attack. Playing HS varsity my freshman year also didn't help- I scored my share of goals, but probably put myself against kids that were too strong and fast for me at the time which was intimidating instead of motivating. I was probably better served running rough-shod over JV for a year to keep the feel of unfettered goal-scoring going. The two combined at the roughly the same point in time in my evolution as a player- and most definitely extinguished the kind of swagger and arrogance I previously had that guys like Dempsey and the other Clint, Mathis were able to hold onto.

There's a definite freedom that comes with pickup soccer- the kind of soccer a very young Pele, Ronaldhino, Rooney, etc would have played on the street that allows for creativity without censorship. We have ZERO pickup soccer for kids here in the US. Nowhere for them to go down to the park on their own and just play with their friends or kids in town- the way our young basketball players play. It's all organized to the point of stifling.

There was an interesting article in the NYT recently about a local investor who is trying to get the city to open up some Futsal fields on empty lots up in Harlem. Who knows if there's enough of a culture to draw kids up there into soccer- but it's a fantastic idea.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I wonder... just a passing thought here... but I wonder if our current form of "democracy" is part of what's killing off creativity?

Junior's daughter gets hammered down for trying to be the nail that stands up. Little league baseball games allow everybody to bat every inning without winners? Everybody gets trophies just for participating.

We're developing a generation where everybody feels entitiled without to being the best without actually having to be the best... or do what it takes to be the best- even if that means standing up, being a selfish #######, stepping on toes, pissing off the coach- whatever.

At the international level, so much emphasis is placed on results- for coaches and players- that what might be a chance for experimentation and exploration becomes about preserving a 1-0 win against frigging Guatemala.

Our politicans have become more about not saying the wrong thing than doing the right thing. And it washes down to the rest of us.

I see Dempsey play- and I see a guy laughing at rough tackles, furious with himself for just missing beating a guy, yelling at team-mates for not getting him the ball.. and dancing embarrassingly with every goal. Whatever he's drinking- serve it to the rest of the country, please.

 
There's a definite freedom that comes with pickup soccer- the kind of soccer a very young Pele, Ronaldhino, Rooney, etc would have played on the street that allows for creativity without censorship. We have ZERO pickup soccer for kids here in the US. Nowhere for them to go down to the park on their own and just play with their friends or kids in town- the way our young basketball players play. It's all organized to the point of stifling.There was an interesting article in the NYT recently about a local investor who is trying to get the city to open up some Futsal fields on empty lots up in Harlem. Who knows if there's enough of a culture to draw kids up there into soccer- but it's a fantastic idea.
While that's sort of true in NYC, the funny thing is that there are plenty of fields in places like North Carolina, but the only people who tried to use them with Hispanics. Well, a lot of people didn't want "those people" in their neighborhood so they basically forbade any pickup soccer. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face. As an aside, in Manhattan there are a decent number of synthetic fields, but they all get used for grown-up leagues (like UrbanSoccer). Some of them have some pickup, but nothing a bunch of 8-13 would play in.
 
There's a definite freedom that comes with pickup soccer- the kind of soccer a very young Pele, Ronaldhino, Rooney, etc would have played on the street that allows for creativity without censorship. We have ZERO pickup soccer for kids here in the US. Nowhere for them to go down to the park on their own and just play with their friends or kids in town- the way our young basketball players play. It's all organized to the point of stifling.

There was an interesting article in the NYT recently about a local investor who is trying to get the city to open up some Futsal fields on empty lots up in Harlem. Who knows if there's enough of a culture to draw kids up there into soccer- but it's a fantastic idea.
While that's sort of true in NYC, the funny thing is that there are plenty of fields in places like North Carolina, but the only people who tried to use them with Hispanics. Well, a lot of people didn't want "those people" in their neighborhood so they basically forbade any pickup soccer. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face. As an aside, in Manhattan there are a decent number of synthetic fields, but they all get used for grown-up leagues (like UrbanSoccer). Some of them have some pickup, but nothing a bunch of 8-13 would play in.
oh- I'm not saying there aren't fields out there all over the US (and yeah- I saw something about some Southern towns closing off fields for open play due to "brown" people using them for pickup games).I've played pickup on and off my entire adult life- here in NYC (upper west, central park, east river), out in SF- anywhere I am where I see people playing. But in all that time and in all those places, I've not once seen a bunch of kids playing on their own. Not once.

I'll see an occasional kid joining his dad or family member in the adult pickup games- and I've seen some good kids in those- but it's never kids going out and kicking the ball around the way we used to play two-hand touch football, or so many kids play basketball.

My point is that soccer has become so regulated here, that kids don't even seem to think of the idea of going down to the park and just playing.

 
There's a definite freedom that comes with pickup soccer- the kind of soccer a very young Pele, Ronaldhino, Rooney, etc would have played on the street that allows for creativity without censorship. We have ZERO pickup soccer for kids here in the US. Nowhere for them to go down to the park on their own and just play with their friends or kids in town- the way our young basketball players play. It's all organized to the point of stifling.

There was an interesting article in the NYT recently about a local investor who is trying to get the city to open up some Futsal fields on empty lots up in Harlem. Who knows if there's enough of a culture to draw kids up there into soccer- but it's a fantastic idea.
While that's sort of true in NYC, the funny thing is that there are plenty of fields in places like North Carolina, but the only people who tried to use them with Hispanics. Well, a lot of people didn't want "those people" in their neighborhood so they basically forbade any pickup soccer. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face. As an aside, in Manhattan there are a decent number of synthetic fields, but they all get used for grown-up leagues (like UrbanSoccer). Some of them have some pickup, but nothing a bunch of 8-13 would play in.
oh- I'm not saying there aren't fields out there all over the US (and yeah- I saw something about some Southern towns closing off fields for open play due to "brown" people using them for pickup games).I've played pickup on and off my entire adult life- here in NYC (upper west, central park, east river), out in SF- anywhere I am where I see people playing. But in all that time and in all those places, I've not once seen a bunch of kids playing on their own. Not once.

I'll see an occasional kid joining his dad or family member in the adult pickup games- and I've seen some good kids in those- but it's never kids going out and kicking the ball around the way we used to play two-hand touch football, or so many kids play basketball.

My point is that soccer has become so regulated here, that kids don't even seem to think of the idea of going down to the park and just playing.
Unfortunately, I think it's that way across sports. Basketball is about the only pickup game that thrives. Everybody has their kids in strucutured sports. I swear my kids are the only ones in the neighborhood who play wiffleball, football, street hockey on their own in the yard.
 
"Futbolito" is very popular here in Spain as you can imagine. It's a 4 on 4 game with a goalie. Lots of running... the size of the field is about a basketball court. By far the most common surface is concrete. But it's available everywhere for pickup games. This is lacking in the US, big time.

Furthermore, there's a whole lot fo ball control skills that the kids pick up while ####### around in the park or plaza with their soccer balls. Since they don't want the ball to get run over or stolen or far away from them, they learn to control the ball on a hard surface instead of the soft grass. Plus, I think that learning to play barefoot or with sandals or regular old sneakers teaches better touch than US youth are accustomed to. I know growing up the only time I touched a soccer ball was on grass with cleats on.

 
There's a definite freedom that comes with pickup soccer- the kind of soccer a very young Pele, Ronaldhino, Rooney, etc would have played on the street that allows for creativity without censorship. We have ZERO pickup soccer for kids here in the US. Nowhere for them to go down to the park on their own and just play with their friends or kids in town- the way our young basketball players play. It's all organized to the point of stifling.

There was an interesting article in the NYT recently about a local investor who is trying to get the city to open up some Futsal fields on empty lots up in Harlem. Who knows if there's enough of a culture to draw kids up there into soccer- but it's a fantastic idea.
While that's sort of true in NYC, the funny thing is that there are plenty of fields in places like North Carolina, but the only people who tried to use them with Hispanics. Well, a lot of people didn't want "those people" in their neighborhood so they basically forbade any pickup soccer. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face. As an aside, in Manhattan there are a decent number of synthetic fields, but they all get used for grown-up leagues (like UrbanSoccer). Some of them have some pickup, but nothing a bunch of 8-13 would play in.
oh- I'm not saying there aren't fields out there all over the US (and yeah- I saw something about some Southern towns closing off fields for open play due to "brown" people using them for pickup games).I've played pickup on and off my entire adult life- here in NYC (upper west, central park, east river), out in SF- anywhere I am where I see people playing. But in all that time and in all those places, I've not once seen a bunch of kids playing on their own. Not once.

I'll see an occasional kid joining his dad or family member in the adult pickup games- and I've seen some good kids in those- but it's never kids going out and kicking the ball around the way we used to play two-hand touch football, or so many kids play basketball.

My point is that soccer has become so regulated here, that kids don't even seem to think of the idea of going down to the park and just playing.
Unfortunately, I think it's that way across sports. Basketball is about the only pickup game that thrives. Everybody has their kids in strucutured sports. I swear my kids are the only ones in the neighborhood who play wiffleball, football, street hockey on their own in the yard.
I see kids playing football a lot here in NYC without coaches etc- seems to be groups of buddies getting together for it the way we used to when I was a kid.Baseball? The occasional wiffleball game with a couple of kids, or kids at the fields playing catch- but it's a tough sport to just "play". My dad used to tell me stories about Stickball on the streets in brooklyn, but I've never seen it in my lifetime.

There are a few spots where I see people- some kids- playing street hockey (off streets, on schoolyards).

So basically its' no pickup: Soccer, Golf, Yachting.

 
"Futbolito" is very popular here in Spain as you can imagine. It's a 4 on 4 game with a goalie. Lots of running... the size of the field is about a basketball court. By far the most common surface is concrete. But it's available everywhere for pickup games. This is lacking in the US, big time.Furthermore, there's a whole lot fo ball control skills that the kids pick up while ####### around in the park or plaza with their soccer balls. Since they don't want the ball to get run over or stolen or far away from them, they learn to control the ball on a hard surface instead of the soft grass. Plus, I think that learning to play barefoot or with sandals or regular old sneakers teaches better touch than US youth are accustomed to. I know growing up the only time I touched a soccer ball was on grass with cleats on.
:yawn: This is exactly what I'm talking about.And I don't know if you ever read Pele's autobiography- amazing book- but they were playing with grapefruit, balled up paper and whatever else they could their hands/feet on when they didn't have a real ball to play with.Futbolito sounds like it's Futsal- 4 and a gk on a basketball sized court- but without use of the walls ala MISL.I've been really tempted to try and get in touch with that NYC investor and volunteer my services in trying to get fields here in NYC and promoting the idea to innercity youths along with the typical middle class kids that already play organized ball. Maybe with a baby two weeks away, now is not that best time.
 
This was essentially my story as well- I was a hotshot, but raw, goal-scorer until a couple of factors came into play: my club team got a new coach, who was and is the winningest college coach in US history- amazing teacher, but continously yelled things like "hot dog!" and "Yo-yo!" at me when I did the "non-fundamental" thing on attack- until I caved in and played his way.
I am drawing a blank here. The two coaching names that come to mind are Joe Maronne from UCONN or the guy from University of San Fran (Denescro?)Who was the coach you are referring to?
 
andy_b said:
El Floppo said:
This was essentially my story as well- I was a hotshot, but raw, goal-scorer until a couple of factors came into play: my club team got a new coach, who was and is the winningest college coach in US history- amazing teacher, but continously yelled things like "hot dog!" and "Yo-yo!" at me when I did the "non-fundamental" thing on attack- until I caved in and played his way.
I am drawing a blank here. The two coaching names that come to mind are Joe Maronne from UCONN or the guy from University of San Fran (Denescro?)Who was the coach you are referring to?
Steve Negoesco- USF
 
I wonder... just a passing thought here... but I wonder if our current form of "democracy" is part of what's killing off creativity?Junior's daughter gets hammered down for trying to be the nail that stands up. Little league baseball games allow everybody to bat every inning without winners? Everybody gets trophies just for participating. We're developing a generation where everybody feels entitiled without to being the best without actually having to be the best... or do what it takes to be the best- even if that means standing up, being a selfish #######, stepping on toes, pissing off the coach- whatever.
You are exactly right, El Floppo.The fact that my daughter was told, at a very early age, not to be creative with the ball, is one of the main problems of US soccer. We are producing a bunch of cookie-cutter players.The league my daughter now plays in, which is a club-level league, doesn't even post scores on tehir websites until U13. Hell, I remember being a nine year old in Little League and having the scoreboard in centerfield showing all the players, people in the stands, and people driving by, who ws the better team..whethjer it was 4-3 or 21-2.When did it become a bad thing to teach youth that winning is good and losing is bad? Whne did we decide that every player should play exactly teh same, whether you're a freakishly talented child or a dweeb who doesn't really want to be out there?Next year will be the first year that my daughter will be old enough to qualify for the Olympic Development Program. I've already had a parent bending my ear and telling me that she wonders if any of the parents on ourt team will be selfish enough to put their child above what's good for the team and try out. I just politely nodded, but you can bet your ### that I know of one kid who I'm more concerned about her individual development than the good of some U13 club team.
 
When did it become a bad thing to teach youth that winning is good and losing is bad? Whne did we decide that every player should play exactly teh same, whether you're a freakishly talented child or a dweeb who doesn't really want to be out there?
I will likely get skewered for this but I believe the more "moms" get involved with sports, the more we get the "everyone's a winner" mentality. I fear for the current generation of kids when they get out in the real world and suddenly realize "hey, I am not being treated the same as everyone else no matter my performance"
 
Canada and Costa Rica are through to the quarter finals joining the US.

It is interesting that as poorly as the US has played they were the only team in the tourney to make the quarter finals after only two games. The US is also the only team in the field to not have been scored on yet (although 4 of the 12 teams have played one more game so its not a full apples to apples comparison yet)

All 4 teams in Group C are still in it. Mexico is in 3rd as we speak but with 2 3rd place teams moving on, they have a good chance of advancing with a draw against Panama.

There is a weird scenario which could actually pit the US vs Mexico in the quarterfinals, which would be a shame to see one of the two big teams have to go out early.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
When did it become a bad thing to teach youth that winning is good and losing is bad? Whne did we decide that every player should play exactly teh same, whether you're a freakishly talented child or a dweeb who doesn't really want to be out there?
I will likely get skewered for this but I believe the more "moms" get involved with sports, the more we get the "everyone's a winner" mentality. I fear for the current generation of kids when they get out in the real world and suddenly realize "hey, I am not being treated the same as everyone else no matter my performance"
I'm sure there's some truth to that...it's funny because even at the U-13 level in something like baseball it certainly appears to an outsider (i.e. me) that the competition and individualism is amped up in that sport on the travelling teams. Maybe it's the nature of the sport where baseball is a bunch of individual activities, but the difference is striking (and yeah I know at the lower levels Little League is played with a continous lineup and no score is kept, but at some point that gets left behind). It may also have something to do with the ultimate "prize" for the top athletes in each sport. In baseball, even the marginal major leaguer makes millions while the goal for many in soccer is getting a college scholarship.
 
Canada and Costa Rica are through to the quarter finals joining the US.
This was a strange group- Canada beats CR, Guadeloupe beats Canada, CR beats Guadeloupe... haven't seen any of the games, but very suprising that CR is giving up points and that Guadeloupe gained points.
It is interesting that as poorly as the US has played they were the only team in the tourney to make the quarter finals after only two games. The US is also the only team in the field to not have been scored on yet (although 4 of the 12 teams have played one more game so its not a full apples to apples comparison yet)
Hopefully the "pressure" will be off the US and they'll just play vs El S tonight instead of worring about results. I'm really hoping to see players take chances and go for it, but I'm guessing with the amount of youth on the team that they'll still be more worried about screwing up and losing their spot in on the roster than impressing enough to solidify that same spot.
All 4 teams in Group C are still in it. Mexico is in 3rd as we speak but with 2 3rd place teams moving on, they have a good chance of advancing with a draw against Panama.
Have any of you guys seen Mexico play this cup? Bewildering how off they look, IMO. They seem like they can just decide to turn it on, march down the field and get opportunities... but that "on" toggle isn't getting activated much so far.
There is a weird scenario which could actually pit the US vs Mexico in the quarterfinals, which would be a shame to see one of the two big teams have to go out early.
Totally agree- what a waste that would be. Better yet would be for Mexico to not even make it to the knockout stage. :goodposting:
 
When did it become a bad thing to teach youth that winning is good and losing is bad? Whne did we decide that every player should play exactly teh same, whether you're a freakishly talented child or a dweeb who doesn't really want to be out there?
I will likely get skewered for this but I believe the more "moms" get involved with sports, the more we get the "everyone's a winner" mentality. I fear for the current generation of kids when they get out in the real world and suddenly realize "hey, I am not being treated the same as everyone else no matter my performance"
This is a tangent to that thought (and I am inclined to agree with you, Andy):Between the "soccer is for Euro sissies" thought of the 70s and early 80s, the "soccer Mom-ification" of the suburban, middle-class routes of the sport in the US and the US women's team WC victory on home soil- I think soccer as a sport has been perpetuated here in the US psyche as something for girls- not for our best boy athletes.I noticed an ESPN commercial for MLS recently showed a bunch of guys flying into tackles, getting in eachother's faces etc. mebbe as a response to that perception and to try and lure in guys who don't know much about the sport but think of it as girly. THoughts?
 
I wonder... just a passing thought here... but I wonder if our current form of "democracy" is part of what's killing off creativity?Junior's daughter gets hammered down for trying to be the nail that stands up. Little league baseball games allow everybody to bat every inning without winners? Everybody gets trophies just for participating. We're developing a generation where everybody feels entitiled without to being the best without actually having to be the best... or do what it takes to be the best- even if that means standing up, being a selfish #######, stepping on toes, pissing off the coach- whatever.
You are exactly right, El Floppo.The fact that my daughter was told, at a very early age, not to be creative with the ball, is one of the main problems of US soccer. We are producing a bunch of cookie-cutter players.The league my daughter now plays in, which is a club-level league, doesn't even post scores on tehir websites until U13. Hell, I remember being a nine year old in Little League and having the scoreboard in centerfield showing all the players, people in the stands, and people driving by, who ws the better team..whethjer it was 4-3 or 21-2.When did it become a bad thing to teach youth that winning is good and losing is bad? Whne did we decide that every player should play exactly teh same, whether you're a freakishly talented child or a dweeb who doesn't really want to be out there?Next year will be the first year that my daughter will be old enough to qualify for the Olympic Development Program. I've already had a parent bending my ear and telling me that she wonders if any of the parents on ourt team will be selfish enough to put their child above what's good for the team and try out. I just politely nodded, but you can bet your ### that I know of one kid who I'm more concerned about her individual development than the good of some U13 club team.
As myopic as your thoughts on this have been JB (not a negative criticism- just all based around your daughter's experience)- you're pretty dead on.I'd add that now that we FINALLY have some pro soccer for our youth to watch- either live or on TV- we owe them a better product. And I don't necessarily mean winners- I mean teams and players going all out in every way and not just trying to avoid losing the game or their spot on the roster. That kids finally can look up and see that they can be a pro soccer player (not an option when I was playing- unless you went to Europe... which is my only regret not doing :lmao: ) means kids will be emulating our current batch of pros. Or hopefully the current batch of Foreign pros.Part of that better product includes the quality of production on the games- a personal pet peeve that always has me :goodposting: by the end of all games not announced by Bretos and Sullivan/Wynalda. Play-by-Play guys have to know the game (#### you Dave O'Brien) as do the director/producers/camera-men who are creating the show for us. Yellow Cards are important. The play leading up to the goal or goal attempt is important. Little skirmishes that incite the emotions of a game are important. Show us replays of those when the ball is out of play- not during an attack- cut away from the replay if need be. Learn how to time close-ups on action and cut to over-view when the pass is made. Learn the frigging rules; know what play gets called for fouls. Random repeated face time on Landon Donovan while the play is continuing elsewhere is not a good idea.
 
US won 4-0 over the Salvatruchas.

Canada won 2-0 over Haiti and comes out up top Group A. US and Canada are poised to meet up in the semis unless Mexico drops to 2nd in their group. I can see them taking down Canada, especially if the game is in the US.

BTW, I don't want Canada to ever achieve any real success in soccer. I like them far less than Mexicans.

 
I wonder... just a passing thought here... but I wonder if our current form of "democracy" is part of what's killing off creativity?Junior's daughter gets hammered down for trying to be the nail that stands up. Little league baseball games allow everybody to bat every inning without winners? Everybody gets trophies just for participating. We're developing a generation where everybody feels entitiled without to being the best without actually having to be the best... or do what it takes to be the best- even if that means standing up, being a selfish #######, stepping on toes, pissing off the coach- whatever.
You are exactly right, El Floppo.The fact that my daughter was told, at a very early age, not to be creative with the ball, is one of the main problems of US soccer. We are producing a bunch of cookie-cutter players.The league my daughter now plays in, which is a club-level league, doesn't even post scores on tehir websites until U13. Hell, I remember being a nine year old in Little League and having the scoreboard in centerfield showing all the players, people in the stands, and people driving by, who ws the better team..whethjer it was 4-3 or 21-2.When did it become a bad thing to teach youth that winning is good and losing is bad? Whne did we decide that every player should play exactly teh same, whether you're a freakishly talented child or a dweeb who doesn't really want to be out there?Next year will be the first year that my daughter will be old enough to qualify for the Olympic Development Program. I've already had a parent bending my ear and telling me that she wonders if any of the parents on ourt team will be selfish enough to put their child above what's good for the team and try out. I just politely nodded, but you can bet your ### that I know of one kid who I'm more concerned about her individual development than the good of some U13 club team.
As myopic as your thoughts on this have been JB (not a negative criticism- just all based around your daughter's experience)- you're pretty dead on.
You're absolutely right, Floppo. Any perceptions I have made are based solely on my experiences with my daughter over the last five years. The first soccer game i ever watched was her first game of U6. I certainly don't want to come off as a know-it-all. It's been quite a ride seeing what goes on as the level of competitiveness goes up. The politics are unbelievable!I hope that there are good coaches, nationwide, who encourage creativity and experimentation on the ball, even if it means a few team losses along the way. A child may fail ten times at doing an advanced move before heor she finally nails it and reaps the benefits. The key to their development is how their trainers deal with those failures.It would be nice to, someday, see a player like Ronaldhino or C. Ronaldo emerge from the US feeder system- a player who appears to be a magician with the ball. For that to happen, youth coaches and parents have to encourage them to be different, even if they struggle, some, along the way.
 
US won 4-0 over the Salvatruchas.
Real nice win for the US, last night.Obviuosly, an inferior opponent goes a long way in making a team look good, but there were a lot of encouraging things that surfaced last night.Ching and Twellman really seemed to be on the same page in the second half. If those two can become formidable international players, they would join Dempsey, Beasley, and Donovan to give us quite a few scoring options.Gooch also seemed to finally get his head out of his ###. If he can learn to harness that aggressiveness a little, while still remaining a stout defender, it will improve us 100%.
 
BTW, please tell me someone gets the nickname about El Salvador.

My wager line for today's games:

Mexico at -1 and a bit less at -1.5

Mex/Pan O2.5

Cuba +0.5 and +1

 
Last edited by a moderator:
You're absolutely right, Floppo. Any perceptions I have made are based solely on my experiences with my daughter over the last five years. The first soccer game i ever watched was her first game of U6. I certainly don't want to come off as a know-it-all. It's been quite a ride seeing what goes on as the level of competitiveness goes up. The politics are unbelievable!I hope that there are good coaches, nationwide, who encourage creativity and experimentation on the ball, even if it means a few team losses along the way. A child may fail ten times at doing an advanced move before heor she finally nails it and reaps the benefits. The key to their development is how their trainers deal with those failures.It would be nice to, someday, see a player like Ronaldhino or C. Ronaldo emerge from the US feeder system- a player who appears to be a magician with the ball. For that to happen, youth coaches and parents have to encourage them to be different, even if they struggle, some, along the way.
Junior- I really don't like my use of the word "myopic"- it carries way too many negative connotations (which weren't intended), and for that I apologize. You have been very perceptive about the state of things using your daughter's experiences as a forming ground for those ideas. As I await my own first kid's birth (due the 30th)... wait- did I say "kid"? I meant "future USMNT superstar"- it's incredibly informative to me to hear your stories and your insight. So- apologies, and keep it up!
 
US won 4-0 over the Salvatruchas.
Real nice win for the US, last night.Obviuosly, an inferior opponent goes a long way in making a team look good, but there were a lot of encouraging things that surfaced last night.

Ching and Twellman really seemed to be on the same page in the second half. If those two can become formidable international players, they would join Dempsey, Beasley, and Donovan to give us quite a few scoring options.

Gooch also seemed to finally get his head out of his ###. If he can learn to harness that aggressiveness a little, while still remaining a stout defender, it will improve us 100%.
:goodposting: At this point in time, I can't understand any US opponent with Interantional fitness capabilities bunkering down the way ES did last night. I know they needed a result and felt outmatched- but the US clearly plays worse offensively and defensively when pressured. Bunkering down just buys a little time and takes your own players out of the game- :thumbdown:

That said- ES was clearly outmatched from the get-go. Too many lost touches, errant passes and unmarked men. But a touch here or there, and the bunker d might have worked, as they got a handful of real chances in the first half to get goals- specifically one breakaway (failed offsides trap) put an ES attacker one-on-one with Howard who didnt even have to make a save on the flailed attempt. But then again- a touch here or there for the US, who played a pretty consistent but agonizingly uncreative/aggressive first half, and the score couldve been 5-0, or 5-1 if ES's shot went in.

I loved how ES came out in the 2nd half- attacked the ball all over the field, and the US didn't have many answers- getting put on their heels for the first 20 or so minutes. But ES either lacks that international fitness I mentioned earlier to keep that attack up, or the US players sorted things out on both sides of the ball (I think a combo). After the US weathered that 20 minute assault (and they did a good job of keeping Howard fairly free from danger, despite being under pressure defensively), the US really shined. They moved the ball around quickly and with purpose, found the open spaces for passes and runs, and :gasp: started to take guys on!

Breaking news: Ching turned the ball into space instead of passing back (beating a defender who was commited to marking his left side)! Beasley attempted a forceful shot (but fired it straight up)! Beasley, Dempsey, Mastroeni, Feilhaber, Bornstein, Simek... even Spector- played with swagger, taking guys on with :gasp#2: actual, real live moves!

If you guys get a chance to see the 4th goal... it was really a thing of beauty. Beautifully placed and weighted passing out of the back, players taking guys on on the flank, sick no-look pass from Dempsey to set up Beasley who calmly slotted the ball home (after missing at least 5 sitters previously).

There were some problems- too many errant balls out of the back from all the defenders. Still too little willingness on the forwards' part to turn the ball towrads goal (I noticed Feilhaber did a very good job of this). Too many easy goal scoring opportunities wasted (this could have been 7, 8... even 10-0). The wing backs, especially Spector, were having a tough time containing their man in the 2nd half- fortunately there was almost always somebody there to double tackle and help. Overall, I was suprised it took the US 20+ minutes to figure out how to get the rythm of the game back on their side in the 2nd half- they lost composure (full credit to the ES pressure) and gave the ball away too cheaply when possession would have been their best friend- taking the air out of the ball for as long as possible at the beginning of the 2nd half would've completely destroyed ES. But we didn't have the composure or skills to do it.

A really solid game overall, problems aside. I thought Feilhaber got a chance to shine. And Mastroeni was absolutely brilliant. I'll be honest- I don't get Bradley, but his position is tough to track on the TV screen, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

5 years or more ago, this would've been the type of game that would have given us trouble- but the boys played up to their ability instead of down to the competition's and legitimately put this one away. :thumbup:

A closing note- the Mexican referees were absolutely brilliant. I don't think I questioned a single call- the guys on the sides nailed the offsides and the man in the middle did a wonderful job staying out of the way but still maintaining order- timing his yellow cards when things just started to get a little chippy. If only we had such refs here in the states or when we play WC qualifiers down in Central Amercia.

 
The only thing I disagree with Floppo on is that Bornstein gives me the willies defending...much moreso than Specter or Simek who at least look like they know how to control the wing/deny space. Bornstein just gives up too much space which results in either a good crossing opportunity or he lets someone get to the middle, plus he's just not sure of a tackler.

He's fine against good to middling competition (which includes Mexico), but against anyone really good (i.e European or SA) I have a feeling he'd get absolutely exposed.

 
You're absolutely right, Floppo. Any perceptions I have made are based solely on my experiences with my daughter over the last five years. The first soccer game i ever watched was her first game of U6. I certainly don't want to come off as a know-it-all. It's been quite a ride seeing what goes on as the level of competitiveness goes up. The politics are unbelievable!I hope that there are good coaches, nationwide, who encourage creativity and experimentation on the ball, even if it means a few team losses along the way. A child may fail ten times at doing an advanced move before heor she finally nails it and reaps the benefits. The key to their development is how their trainers deal with those failures.It would be nice to, someday, see a player like Ronaldhino or C. Ronaldo emerge from the US feeder system- a player who appears to be a magician with the ball. For that to happen, youth coaches and parents have to encourage them to be different, even if they struggle, some, along the way.
Junior- I really don't like my use of the word "myopic"- it carries way too many negative connotations (which weren't intended), and for that I apologize. You have been very perceptive about the state of things using your daughter's experiences as a forming ground for those ideas. As I await my own first kid's birth (due the 30th)... wait- did I say "kid"? I meant "future USMNT superstar"- it's incredibly informative to me to hear your stories and your insight. So- apologies, and keep it up!
Well, lucky for you, I don't know what myopic means. Therefore, I couldn't possibly take offense. :goodposting: Sometimes, ignorance is bliss.
 
US won 4-0 over the Salvatruchas.
Real nice win for the US, last night.Obviuosly, an inferior opponent goes a long way in making a team look good, but there were a lot of encouraging things that surfaced last night.

Ching and Twellman really seemed to be on the same page in the second half. If those two can become formidable international players, they would join Dempsey, Beasley, and Donovan to give us quite a few scoring options.

Gooch also seemed to finally get his head out of his ###. If he can learn to harness that aggressiveness a little, while still remaining a stout defender, it will improve us 100%.
:goodposting: Breaking news: Ching turned the ball into space instead of passing back (beating a defender who was commited to marking his left side)! Beasley attempted a forceful shot (but fired it straight up)! Beasley, Dempsey, Mastroeni, Feilhaber, Bornstein, Simek... even Spector- played with swagger, taking guys on with :gasp#2: actual, real live moves!

If you guys get a chance to see the 4th goal... it was really a thing of beauty. Beautifully placed and weighted passing out of the back, players taking guys on on the flank, sick no-look pass from Dempsey to set up Beasley who calmly slotted the ball home (after missing at least 5 sitters previously).

A really solid game overall, problems aside. I thought Feilhaber got a chance to shine. And Mastroeni was absolutely brilliant. I'll be honest- I don't get Bradley, but his position is tough to track on the TV screen, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.
A few comments, based on your observations.You're right about Demsey's no-look pass. It was sick! He passed outside to the left, with the inside of his left foot! That seems like it would be hard to do standing still, let alone while running.

As far as Bradley goes, I agree that he doesn't really impress from the tv coverage. My guess is that, since he was raised as the son of a coach, he probably knows the tactics of the game- more importantly, the tactics of Bradley's game, very well. He may be an extension of the coach, out on the field. Sometimes having a field general out there, even if he isn't an extraordinary athlete, is a good thing for a team. I did notice that he jumped into El Salvadore passing lanes quite a few times, last night. He seems to have a good nose for the ball. The only thing that I noticed about him in the first two games was that I didn't notice anything about him. Who knows? I guess we'll learn more about him as time goes on.

Come to think of it, you're right about the officials. I don't remember a call that I disagreed with yet (with the possible exeption of Gooch's first yellow). They even noticed that Bradley entered the box too soon on Donovan's first penalty kick. I sure as hell didn't.

 
The only thing I disagree with Floppo on is that Bornstein gives me the willies defending...much moreso than Specter or Simek who at least look like they know how to control the wing/deny space. Bornstein just gives up too much space which results in either a good crossing opportunity or he lets someone get to the middle, plus he's just not sure of a tackler. He's fine against good to middling competition (which includes Mexico), but against anyone really good (i.e European or SA) I have a feeling he'd get absolutely exposed.
Great comments Sammy. For the record- I liked Bornstein's offensive swagger, not his defensive. I agree with you about the space he gives up. Seems like he's relied on using his speed to make that space up- but as you say- against better competition, that's a tactic that will get him (and the US) burned. I'm really liking what I see of Simek so far on both sides of the ball. And Spector- even when beat- seems to have learned a lot in the EPL about recovering by using his body without creating a foul.
 
US won 4-0 over the Salvatruchas.
Real nice win for the US, last night.Obviuosly, an inferior opponent goes a long way in making a team look good, but there were a lot of encouraging things that surfaced last night.

Ching and Twellman really seemed to be on the same page in the second half. If those two can become formidable international players, they would join Dempsey, Beasley, and Donovan to give us quite a few scoring options.

Gooch also seemed to finally get his head out of his ###. If he can learn to harness that aggressiveness a little, while still remaining a stout defender, it will improve us 100%.
:popcorn: Breaking news: Ching turned the ball into space instead of passing back (beating a defender who was commited to marking his left side)! Beasley attempted a forceful shot (but fired it straight up)! Beasley, Dempsey, Mastroeni, Feilhaber, Bornstein, Simek... even Spector- played with swagger, taking guys on with :gasp#2: actual, real live moves!

If you guys get a chance to see the 4th goal... it was really a thing of beauty. Beautifully placed and weighted passing out of the back, players taking guys on on the flank, sick no-look pass from Dempsey to set up Beasley who calmly slotted the ball home (after missing at least 5 sitters previously).

A really solid game overall, problems aside. I thought Feilhaber got a chance to shine. And Mastroeni was absolutely brilliant. I'll be honest- I don't get Bradley, but his position is tough to track on the TV screen, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.
A few comments, based on your observations.You're right about Demsey's no-look pass. It was sick! He passed outside to the left, with the inside of his left foot! That seems like it would be hard to do standing still, let alone while running.

As far as Bradley goes, I agree that he doesn't really impress from the tv coverage. My guess is that, since he was raised as the son of a coach, he probably knows the tactics of the game- more importantly, the tactics of Bradley's game, very well. He may be an extension of the coach, out on the field. Sometimes having a field general out there, even if he isn't an extraordinary athlete, is a good thing for a team. I did notice that he jumped into El Salvadore passing lanes quite a few times, last night. He seems to have a good nose for the ball. The only thing that I noticed about him in the first two games was that I didn't notice anything about him. Who knows? I guess we'll learn more about him as time goes on.

Come to think of it, you're right about the officials. I don't remember a call that I disagreed with yet (with the possible exeption of Gooch's first yellow). They even noticed that Bradley entered the box too soon on Donovan's first penalty kick. I sure as hell didn't.
FWIW, the penalty was called back because the El Sal goalie came off his line much too early, not because Bradley came into the area too early.
 
As far as Bradley goes, I agree that he doesn't really impress from the tv coverage. My guess is that, since he was raised as the son of a coach, he probably knows the tactics of the game- more importantly, the tactics of Bradley's game, very well. He may be an extension of the coach, out on the field. Sometimes having a field general out there, even if he isn't an extraordinary athlete, is a good thing for a team. I did notice that he jumped into El Salvadore passing lanes quite a few times, last night. He seems to have a good nose for the ball. The only thing that I noticed about him in the first two games was that I didn't notice anything about him. Who knows? I guess we'll learn more about him as time goes on.
I think you're dead on about Bradley. He's doing the holding MF job- unglamorous most of the time, but crucial. Good point about him closing down the passing lanes defensively and having a nose for the ball. I played against Bradley the coach when he was at Princeton- and I can see how having somebody on the field who "get's" his system would be really helpful. Either that, or it's his son and it's nepotism at its' worst.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top