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Baseball Veterans Committee elects to the Hall of Fame... (1 Viewer)

posty

Footballguy
No one!

http://sports.iwon.com/news/02272007/v5797.html

NEW YORK (AP) -The Hall of Fame pitched another shutout.

Ron Santo, Jim Kaat and all the other candidates were left out Tuesday when the Veterans Committee admitted no new members for the third straight election.

Gil Hodges, umpire Doug Harvey and union leader Marvin Miller also fell short. Santo came the closest to the required 75 percent - the former Cubs third baseman was picked on 57 of 82 ballots (70 percent).

 
I agree that Santo doesnt quite make the cut, but the guy is KILLED by his era.

The guy LEADS THE LEAGUE in OBP in '64 - and doesn't even break .400

 
I really thought that Santo would finally get in. They just need to disband the veteran's committee.

 
I'll be concerned when Selig retires and the next guy lets Rose in. Despite the fact he gambled on baseball, they still should let the all-time hits leader in.

 
I'll be concerned when Selig retires and the next guy lets Rose in. Despite the fact he gambled on baseball, they still should let the all-time hits leader in.
I'm all for Pete Rose getting in. As long as he waits as long as Joe Jackson has too.
 
I'll be concerned when Selig retires and the next guy lets Rose in. Despite the fact he gambled on baseball, they still should let the all-time hits leader in.
I'm all for Pete Rose getting in. As long as he waits as long as Joe Jackson has too.
I think there's a major difference in their cases, though. The 1919 Sox were paid to throw their Series, whereas Rose at least claims he always bet on the Reds to win. That should provide a deciding factor, at least to me. One bet on them to lose, the other bet on them to win.
 
I'll be concerned when Selig retires and the next guy lets Rose in. Despite the fact he gambled on baseball, they still should let the all-time hits leader in.
I'm all for Pete Rose getting in. As long as he waits as long as Joe Jackson has too.
I think there's a major difference in their cases, though. The 1919 Sox were paid to throw their Series, whereas Rose at least claims he always bet on the Reds to win. That should provide a deciding factor, at least to me. One bet on them to lose, the other bet on them to win.
So when Rose didn't bet on the Reds, what did that say to the books?Actions, or lack there of, can speak just as loud as words.
 
I'll be concerned when Selig retires and the next guy lets Rose in. Despite the fact he gambled on baseball, they still should let the all-time hits leader in.
I'm all for Pete Rose getting in. As long as he waits as long as Joe Jackson has too.
I think there's a major difference in their cases, though. The 1919 Sox were paid to throw their Series, whereas Rose at least claims he always bet on the Reds to win. That should provide a deciding factor, at least to me. One bet on them to lose, the other bet on them to win.
Except as I understand it, Shoeless was not one of those participating in the fix. Rose, by betting on his team WHILE A MANAGER essentially rises to the same level as betting against his team. He would overuse a reliever or perhaps NOT do everything needed to win a game that he did NOT bet on, to save for when he did have $$ riding on the next game.Rose is a disgrace to baseball and to professional sport - and sport as a whole. He deserves exactly what he has received.
 
I'll be concerned when Selig retires and the next guy lets Rose in. Despite the fact he gambled on baseball, they still should let the all-time hits leader in.
I'm all for Pete Rose getting in. As long as he waits as long as Joe Jackson has too.
I think there's a major difference in their cases, though. The 1919 Sox were paid to throw their Series, whereas Rose at least claims he always bet on the Reds to win. That should provide a deciding factor, at least to me. One bet on them to lose, the other bet on them to win.
Except as I understand it, Shoeless was not one of those participating in the fix. Rose, by betting on his team WHILE A MANAGER essentially rises to the same level as betting against his team. He would overuse a reliever or perhaps NOT do everything needed to win a game that he did NOT bet on, to save for when he did have $$ riding on the next game.Rose is a disgrace to baseball and to professional sport - and sport as a whole. He deserves exactly what he has received.
:goodposting:
 
I'll be concerned when Selig retires and the next guy lets Rose in. Despite the fact he gambled on baseball, they still should let the all-time hits leader in.
I'm all for Pete Rose getting in. As long as he waits as long as Joe Jackson has too.
I think there's a major difference in their cases, though. The 1919 Sox were paid to throw their Series, whereas Rose at least claims he always bet on the Reds to win. That should provide a deciding factor, at least to me. One bet on them to lose, the other bet on them to win.
Except as I understand it, Shoeless was not one of those participating in the fix. Rose, by betting on his team WHILE A MANAGER essentially rises to the same level as betting against his team. He would overuse a reliever or perhaps NOT do everything needed to win a game that he did NOT bet on, to save for when he did have $$ riding on the next game.Rose is a disgrace to baseball and to professional sport - and sport as a whole. He deserves exactly what he has received.
If he bet on his team to win, and any actions he took in other games might risk that, I'd be inclined to think he'd be more careful to properly utilize talent. And you'd be right, Shoeless didn't bet, though I thought I heard that he knew, but did nothing to stop it.Since you think he's a disgrace, what about all those players who gamble on other sports, or cork a bat, or take steroids? Are they disgraces, or simply doing what they feel they need to do?
 
I'll be concerned when Selig retires and the next guy lets Rose in. Despite the fact he gambled on baseball, they still should let the all-time hits leader in.
I'm all for Pete Rose getting in. As long as he waits as long as Joe Jackson has too.
I think there's a major difference in their cases, though. The 1919 Sox were paid to throw their Series, whereas Rose at least claims he always bet on the Reds to win. That should provide a deciding factor, at least to me. One bet on them to lose, the other bet on them to win.
Except as I understand it, Shoeless was not one of those participating in the fix. Rose, by betting on his team WHILE A MANAGER essentially rises to the same level as betting against his team. He would overuse a reliever or perhaps NOT do everything needed to win a game that he did NOT bet on, to save for when he did have $$ riding on the next game.

Rose is a disgrace to baseball and to professional sport - and sport as a whole. He deserves exactly what he has received.
If he bet on his team to win, and any actions he took in other games might risk that, I'd be inclined to think he'd be more careful to properly utilize talent. And you'd be right, Shoeless didn't bet, though I thought I heard that he knew, but did nothing to stop it.Since you think he's a disgrace, what about all those players who gamble on other sports, or cork a bat, or take steroids? Are they disgraces, or simply doing what they feel they need to do?
It's more the fact that if he doesn't place a bet on his team to win, that's sort of letting the bookies know that he doesn't have a lot of faith in winning that game. There were tons of rumors that Rose would bet on his team to win every game unless Mario Soto was pitching that day.Anyway, regarding the Shoeless Joe vs. Rose angle...Joe Jackson didn't do anything to cost his team the World Series. Forget about the Field Of Dreams statistical references because obviously he could've done poorly in a key spot here or there that cost his team. But that is simply not the case. There was a book that either came out late last year or is about to come out about Shoeless Joe that details a lot of this stuff more in-depth, I'll try to get the name if I can.

What's more, Charlie Comiskey was a world-class ####### who held back Eddie Cicotte from pitching the end of the season because if he won a certain number of games he'd be given a bonus. He was known all-around as a tightwad jerk that screwed over his players as much as possible. In an era where players didn't make tens of millions of dollars, some of these guys did a terrible thing but at least have some understanding of why they did it.

 
I don't have a problem with Santo not being in. He strikes me as one of the several guys on the cusp that were very, very good players, but just not quite HOF material.

ETA: same for Kaat - solid pitcher with defensive skills beyond anyone, but just not there...

 
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I'll be concerned when Selig retires and the next guy lets Rose in. Despite the fact he gambled on baseball, they still should let the all-time hits leader in.
I'm all for Pete Rose getting in. As long as he waits as long as Joe Jackson has too.
I think there's a major difference in their cases, though. The 1919 Sox were paid to throw their Series, whereas Rose at least claims he always bet on the Reds to win. That should provide a deciding factor, at least to me. One bet on them to lose, the other bet on them to win.
Except as I understand it, Shoeless was not one of those participating in the fix. Rose, by betting on his team WHILE A MANAGER essentially rises to the same level as betting against his team. He would overuse a reliever or perhaps NOT do everything needed to win a game that he did NOT bet on, to save for when he did have $$ riding on the next game.

Rose is a disgrace to baseball and to professional sport - and sport as a whole. He deserves exactly what he has received.
If he bet on his team to win, and any actions he took in other games might risk that, I'd be inclined to think he'd be more careful to properly utilize talent. And you'd be right, Shoeless didn't bet, though I thought I heard that he knew, but did nothing to stop it.Since you think he's a disgrace, what about all those players who gamble on other sports, or cork a bat, or take steroids? Are they disgraces, or simply doing what they feel they need to do?
It's more the fact that if he doesn't place a bet on his team to win, that's sort of letting the bookies know that he doesn't have a lot of faith in winning that game. There were tons of rumors that Rose would bet on his team to win every game unless Mario Soto was pitching that day.Anyway, regarding the Shoeless Joe vs. Rose angle...Joe Jackson didn't do anything to cost his team the World Series. Forget about the Field Of Dreams statistical references because obviously he could've done poorly in a key spot here or there that cost his team. But that is simply not the case. There was a book that either came out late last year or is about to come out about Shoeless Joe that details a lot of this stuff more in-depth, I'll try to get the name if I can.

What's more, Charlie Comiskey was a world-class ####### who held back Eddie Cicotte from pitching the end of the season because if he won a certain number of games he'd be given a bonus. He was known all-around as a tightwad jerk that screwed over his players as much as possible. In an era where players didn't make tens of millions of dollars, some of these guys did a terrible thing but at least have some understanding of why they did it.
Ok, so he bet when he knew the odds were better of him winning than they were of him losing. Seems like a safe way to bet to me, aside from the fact he was the manager, which even so, he should have tried as hard as he could to win, bet or no bet.Besides, I never said Joe did anything to cost them the series, I was simply stating that I had heard he knew of the scandal, but did nothing to stop it. Personally, I'd like to see him in the Hall too.

 
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I'll be concerned when Selig retires and the next guy lets Rose in. Despite the fact he gambled on baseball, they still should let the all-time hits leader in.
I'm all for Pete Rose getting in. As long as he waits as long as Joe Jackson has too.
I think there's a major difference in their cases, though. The 1919 Sox were paid to throw their Series, whereas Rose at least claims he always bet on the Reds to win. That should provide a deciding factor, at least to me. One bet on them to lose, the other bet on them to win.
Except as I understand it, Shoeless was not one of those participating in the fix. Rose, by betting on his team WHILE A MANAGER essentially rises to the same level as betting against his team. He would overuse a reliever or perhaps NOT do everything needed to win a game that he did NOT bet on, to save for when he did have $$ riding on the next game.Rose is a disgrace to baseball and to professional sport - and sport as a whole. He deserves exactly what he has received.
If he bet on his team to win, and any actions he took in other games might risk that, I'd be inclined to think he'd be more careful to properly utilize talent. And you'd be right, Shoeless didn't bet, though I thought I heard that he knew, but did nothing to stop it.Since you think he's a disgrace, what about all those players who gamble on other sports, or cork a bat, or take steroids? Are they disgraces, or simply doing what they feel they need to do?
Cheating and betting on one's own sport are VERY different. One hurts the integrity of the game on an indivudual level. Not that cheating should be accepted, but it does not threaten the game as much as fixes/betting on the game.Cheaters are disgraces in my book, btw. But they do not threaten the integrity of the game as much as one willing to gamble on their own team.Gambling on other sports? That has me confused. WTF does that have to do with the price of tea in china? Betting on your own GAME is the issue... not gambling at large.
 
Sorry to get off topic... I guess it is hard for a who deserves to be in the HoF thread to stay away from the Rose issue.

 
Cheating and betting on one's own sport are VERY different. One hurts the integrity of the game on an indivudual level. Not that cheating should be accepted, but it does not threaten the game as much as fixes/betting on the game.Cheaters are disgraces in my book, btw. But they do not threaten the integrity of the game as much as one willing to gamble on their own team.Gambling on other sports? That has me confused. WTF does that have to do with the price of tea in china? Betting on your own GAME is the issue... not gambling at large.
I just figured that if a guy plays baseball and gambles on, oh let's say, soccer, then he should at least be watched, because what's to stop him from gambling on his own sport? Besides, I think it was only Rose who bet on his own team, whereas it was a collection of players from 1919 that conspired to throw the series.So a guy who shoots himself full of (un)natural chemicals in order to drive a ball farther and therefore try for the record books isn't as bad as someone who bets on his own team to win every time he does bet on them? The integrity of the game has been lost for years, likely for decades at that. The fact that a guy bet on his own team to win, I believe, is at least on a par with a guy who cheats to help his team win.
 
Cheaters like Bonds don't deserve to be in the HoF, either.

But what Rose did was even worse. Once you start gambling on games you manage, there's little difference between baseball and professional wrestling.

 
Cheating and betting on one's own sport are VERY different. One hurts the integrity of the game on an indivudual level. Not that cheating should be accepted, but it does not threaten the game as much as fixes/betting on the game.Cheaters are disgraces in my book, btw. But they do not threaten the integrity of the game as much as one willing to gamble on their own team.Gambling on other sports? That has me confused. WTF does that have to do with the price of tea in china? Betting on your own GAME is the issue... not gambling at large.
I just figured that if a guy plays baseball and gambles on, oh let's say, soccer, then he should at least be watched, because what's to stop him from gambling on his own sport? Besides, I think it was only Rose who bet on his own team, whereas it was a collection of players from 1919 that conspired to throw the series.So a guy who shoots himself full of (un)natural chemicals in order to drive a ball farther and therefore try for the record books isn't as bad as someone who bets on his own team to win every time he does bet on them? The integrity of the game has been lost for years, likely for decades at that. The fact that a guy bet on his own team to win, I believe, is at least on a par with a guy who cheats to help his team win.
I am not saying I accept cheating. But you are totally missing the point here in regard to betting on your own game. You DO understand that by betting on your team to win, that when you DONT bet on your team it is likely that you won't use every last measure to win that game and you might use TOO much to win the games you have money on (ie overusing a relief pitcher).And you totally lose me on the "if you bet on other sports you have to be watched" - that is a bit ludicrous unless it is apparant that a player/coach has a gambling problem which may lead to betting on their own sport/games.
 
Cheating and betting on one's own sport are VERY different. One hurts the integrity of the game on an indivudual level. Not that cheating should be accepted, but it does not threaten the game as much as fixes/betting on the game.Cheaters are disgraces in my book, btw. But they do not threaten the integrity of the game as much as one willing to gamble on their own team.Gambling on other sports? That has me confused. WTF does that have to do with the price of tea in china? Betting on your own GAME is the issue... not gambling at large.
I just figured that if a guy plays baseball and gambles on, oh let's say, soccer, then he should at least be watched, because what's to stop him from gambling on his own sport? Besides, I think it was only Rose who bet on his own team, whereas it was a collection of players from 1919 that conspired to throw the series.So a guy who shoots himself full of (un)natural chemicals in order to drive a ball farther and therefore try for the record books isn't as bad as someone who bets on his own team to win every time he does bet on them? The integrity of the game has been lost for years, likely for decades at that. The fact that a guy bet on his own team to win, I believe, is at least on a par with a guy who cheats to help his team win.
I am not saying I accept cheating. But you are totally missing the point here in regard to betting on your own game. You DO understand that by betting on your team to win, that when you DONT bet on your team it is likely that you won't use every last measure to win that game and you might use TOO much to win the games you have money on (ie overusing a relief pitcher).And you totally lose me on the "if you bet on other sports you have to be watched" - that is a bit ludicrous unless it is apparant that a player/coach has a gambling problem which may lead to betting on their own sport/games.
To be honest, I don't know why I put that in there. I guess that because I have an addictive personality (that is, when I find something I like, I keep doing it for a long time) I think others have a similar problem with becoming compulsive gamblers or something to that effect.(I'm not a compulsive gambler, but that's because I stay away from it)But I do understand what you mean on not betting on teams on certain days. I guess I had the mindset that it shouldn't matter if you have money on a team that day or not (if you do gamble), you should still play as hard as you can.
 
On a side note, how come Sadaharu Oh is not in the Baseball HOF (other than the fact he never played in the US for the required number of seasons). I mean, if we can research Negro league records and stats to elect Josh Gibson then we should be able to induct Oh.

 
On a side note, how come Sadaharu Oh is not in the Baseball HOF (other than the fact he never played in the US for the required number of seasons). I mean, if we can research Negro league records and stats to elect Josh Gibson then we should be able to induct Oh.
Cuz its called the National Baseball Hall of Fame
 
On a side note, how come Sadaharu Oh is not in the Baseball HOF (other than the fact he never played in the US for the required number of seasons). I mean, if we can research Negro league records and stats to elect Josh Gibson then we should be able to induct Oh.
"National Baseball Hall of Fame and Museum"
 
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Cheating and betting on one's own sport are VERY different. One hurts the integrity of the game on an indivudual level. Not that cheating should be accepted, but it does not threaten the game as much as fixes/betting on the game.Cheaters are disgraces in my book, btw. But they do not threaten the integrity of the game as much as one willing to gamble on their own team.Gambling on other sports? That has me confused. WTF does that have to do with the price of tea in china? Betting on your own GAME is the issue... not gambling at large.
I just figured that if a guy plays baseball and gambles on, oh let's say, soccer, then he should at least be watched, because what's to stop him from gambling on his own sport? Besides, I think it was only Rose who bet on his own team, whereas it was a collection of players from 1919 that conspired to throw the series.So a guy who shoots himself full of (un)natural chemicals in order to drive a ball farther and therefore try for the record books isn't as bad as someone who bets on his own team to win every time he does bet on them? The integrity of the game has been lost for years, likely for decades at that. The fact that a guy bet on his own team to win, I believe, is at least on a par with a guy who cheats to help his team win.
I am not saying I accept cheating. But you are totally missing the point here in regard to betting on your own game. You DO understand that by betting on your team to win, that when you DONT bet on your team it is likely that you won't use every last measure to win that game and you might use TOO much to win the games you have money on (ie overusing a relief pitcher).And you totally lose me on the "if you bet on other sports you have to be watched" - that is a bit ludicrous unless it is apparant that a player/coach has a gambling problem which may lead to betting on their own sport/games.
To be honest, I don't know why I put that in there. I guess that because I have an addictive personality (that is, when I find something I like, I keep doing it for a long time) I think others have a similar problem with becoming compulsive gamblers or something to that effect.(I'm not a compulsive gambler, but that's because I stay away from it)But I do understand what you mean on not betting on teams on certain days. I guess I had the mindset that it shouldn't matter if you have money on a team that day or not (if you do gamble), you should still play as hard as you can.
I hear ya - at least you are openminded enough to recognize something that at first you may not have thought about. A nice and far to rare a trait here.You do bring up an interesting point about cheating though, and my take is the following: Much as I disdain cheating, you need consistency within a sport. So, if a corked bat, or repeated scuffing/spitballs don't warrant being excluded from the hall, I can't see why steroid users would be subject to anything worse.Personally, cheating is cheating. Repeated cheating should mean no hall. But that is not how baseball has approached things (i.e. spit/scuff/cork) so if they allow for that cheating with a joke and a smile, you need consistency when looking at cheating through roids.
 
And while we're talking about Rose, let's be clear. The reason he's not in the Hall is that he is on baseball's ineligible list. Members of that list cannot be elected into the Hall.

Basically, MLB has decided Rose is untrustworthy and has banned him, for life, from participating in the sport. Since he sold out his own team as a manager for financial gain, I don't see anything wrong with that decision. He walked past a sign proclaiming Rule 21 every day, and still knowingly violated it. He accepted the punishment voluntarily to avoid the further disgrace of all of his actions becoming public knowledge.

So, the argument isn't "does Rose belong in the Hall?" The argument should be either "Should the Hall induct any player who disgraced the game so much as to be banned from every participating in it?", or, "Should Rose not be on the Ineligible List?"

 
And while we're talking about Rose, let's be clear. The reason he's not in the Hall is that he is on baseball's ineligible list. Members of that list cannot be elected into the Hall.Basically, MLB has decided Rose is untrustworthy and has banned him, for life, from participating in the sport. Since he sold out his own team as a manager for financial gain, I don't see anything wrong with that decision. He walked past a sign proclaiming Rule 21 every day, and still knowingly violated it. He accepted the punishment voluntarily to avoid the further disgrace of all of his actions becoming public knowledge.So, the argument isn't "does Rose belong in the Hall?" The argument should be either "Should the Hall induct any player who disgraced the game so much as to be banned from every participating in it?", or, "Should Rose not be on the Ineligible List?"
Actually, the truth is even MORE damning for rose. Rose had every opportunity to come clean. Had he done so, then he would not have been banned for life.Rose SIGNED AWAY his right to the hall - I forget the specifics but I am sure someone else can recall them offhand. But Rose WILLINGLY chose a fate by which he admitted nothing and accepted being placed on the ineligible list.reap what you sow.
 
The Vet Committee is the only way guys like Miller & Harvey get in, correct?

If so - they need to break things out into players & others, in 2 elections. At this rate, the managers/owners/umpires/labor figures aren't going anywhere, and there are some deserving guys on the outside.

 
I think MLB should institute a rule that says that players on the ineliglible list can be allowed in the Hall after they are dead.

Based upon play on the field, both Shoeless Joe and Rose belong in the Hall. I've always thought Joe got a raw deal, but the guy's been dead for over 50 years. He served his sentence. Let him in.

Rose should be admitted the year after he dies.

 
Why no love for Santo?

How many guys have made the Hall that played 3rd? A:(13)

Robinson

Boggs

Brett

Schmidt

And can you believe that Santo has more HR's than 3 of these guys?(in less games)

Say what you will, but Santo should be in the hall.

 
Why no love for Santo?How many guys have made the Hall that played 3rd? A:(13)RobinsonBoggsBrettSchmidtAnd can you believe that Santo has more HR's than 3 of these guys?(in less games)Say what you will, but Santo should be in the hall.
Becasue HRs is what makes a HOF player :thumbup:
 
Cheating and betting on one's own sport are VERY different. One hurts the integrity of the game on an indivudual level. Not that cheating should be accepted, but it does not threaten the game as much as fixes/betting on the game.

Cheaters are disgraces in my book, btw. But they do not threaten the integrity of the game as much as one willing to gamble on their own team.

Gambling on other sports? That has me confused. WTF does that have to do with the price of tea in china? Betting on your own GAME is the issue... not gambling at large.
I just figured that if a guy plays baseball and gambles on, oh let's say, soccer, then he should at least be watched, because what's to stop him from gambling on his own sport? Besides, I think it was only Rose who bet on his own team, whereas it was a collection of players from 1919 that conspired to throw the series.So a guy who shoots himself full of (un)natural chemicals in order to drive a ball farther and therefore try for the record books isn't as bad as someone who bets on his own team to win every time he does bet on them? The integrity of the game has been lost for years, likely for decades at that. The fact that a guy bet on his own team to win, I believe, is at least on a par with a guy who cheats to help his team win.
I am not saying I accept cheating. But you are totally missing the point here in regard to betting on your own game. You DO understand that by betting on your team to win, that when you DONT bet on your team it is likely that you won't use every last measure to win that game and you might use TOO much to win the games you have money on (ie overusing a relief pitcher).And you totally lose me on the "if you bet on other sports you have to be watched" - that is a bit ludicrous unless it is apparant that a player/coach has a gambling problem which may lead to betting on their own sport/games.
To be honest, I don't know why I put that in there. I guess that because I have an addictive personality (that is, when I find something I like, I keep doing it for a long time) I think others have a similar problem with becoming compulsive gamblers or something to that effect.(I'm not a compulsive gambler, but that's because I stay away from it)But I do understand what you mean on not betting on teams on certain days. I guess I had the mindset that it shouldn't matter if you have money on a team that day or not (if you do gamble), you should still play as hard as you can.
I hear ya - at least you are openminded enough to recognize something that at first you may not have thought about. A nice and far to rare a trait here.You do bring up an interesting point about cheating though, and my take is the following: Much as I disdain cheating, you need consistency within a sport. So, if a corked bat, or repeated scuffing/spitballs don't warrant being excluded from the hall, I can't see why steroid users would be subject to anything worse.

Personally, cheating is cheating. Repeated cheating should mean no hall. But that is not how baseball has approached things (i.e. spit/scuff/cork) so if they allow for that cheating with a joke and a smile, you need consistency when looking at cheating through roids.
The hall lost that high ground a while ago with just about every player from the 60s and 70s and especially with Gaylord Perry.
 
Why no love for Santo?How many guys have made the Hall that played 3rd? A:(13)RobinsonBoggsBrettSchmidtAnd can you believe that Santo has more HR's than 3 of these guys?(in less games)Say what you will, but Santo should be in the hall.
Becasue HRs is what makes a HOF player :shock:
Five-time Gold Glover as well. It's unfortunate that Santo played in an era where the batter-pitcher balance was tilted heavily in favor the pitcher, and never had the opportunity to play in the post-season. He had a great career but is clearly a borderline case. There are worse players than him in the hall but that's more of an argument against the process than in favor of Santo.The current Veterans Committee format seems to have gone too far in the wrong direction. The original committee would let just about anybody in, but I don't believe the current body hasn't voted for anybody in its current incarnation. If it's not going to elect anyone, the HoF might as well disband the committee. The original purpose of giving a second chance to players overlooked during the backlog of 40s and 50s is way past its sell-by date.
 
The penalty for gambling on baseball is a lifetime ban. I think Rose should be inducted on the first ballot following his death, and not a day sooner. I think Shoeless Joe Jackson should also be inducted since he is dead. I imagine some people can interpret "lifetime ban" to mean the lifetime of the Hall or the lifetime of the sport of baseball, but I think it should just mean the lifetime of the player involved. That way there are no glaring omissions for future generations to puzzle over.

I'm actually a fan of Rose the baseball player. I used to go to Reds games a few times a year when the Big Red Machine was running on all cylinders. I once saw Rose foul of sixteen straight pitches then serve the seventeenth into right field for a single.

He clearly violated the rules of baseball, flagrantly, and knew he was doing so the whole time. I have no problem with the ban, and can't see how baseball can, in good conscience, ever allow him back into the sport.

 
I'll be concerned when Selig retires and the next guy lets Rose in. Despite the fact he gambled on baseball, they still should let the all-time hits leader in.
I'm all for Pete Rose getting in. As long as he waits as long as Joe Jackson has too.
I think there's a major difference in their cases, though. The 1919 Sox were paid to throw their Series, whereas Rose at least claims he always bet on the Reds to win. That should provide a deciding factor, at least to me. One bet on them to lose, the other bet on them to win.
Except as I understand it, Shoeless was not one of those participating in the fix. Rose, by betting on his team WHILE A MANAGER essentially rises to the same level as betting against his team. He would overuse a reliever or perhaps NOT do everything needed to win a game that he did NOT bet on, to save for when he did have $$ riding on the next game.

Rose is a disgrace to baseball and to professional sport - and sport as a whole. He deserves exactly what he has received.
There is evidence that Jackson participated in the fix. He testified in court that he agreed to throw the World Series. He took $5000 from the gamblers. He hit .375 in the Series but only .250 with 0 RBI in the first four games the Sox purposely lost and his hits in the final game happened after the Reds already had a big lead. Even if Jackson played his best, he certainly knew about the fix, didn't tell anyone, and, as the team's best player, his merely agreeing to go along probably induced the other guys to go ahead with the plan.I see a distinction with Rose. You don't want a manager to bet on his own team because he'd be tempted to do the very things you point out. But we don't actually know if Rose did those things. I'm not sure if he deserves a lifetime ban or not. Jackson does.

 
Why no love for Santo?How many guys have made the Hall that played 3rd? A:(13)RobinsonBoggsBrettSchmidtAnd can you believe that Santo has more HR's than 3 of these guys?(in less games)Say what you will, but Santo should be in the hall.
Becasue HRs is what makes a HOF player :shock:
No HR's do not make a player a HOF.I'm just pointing out that he had numbers similar to other HOF's.
 
Bill James thinks Santo is the 6th best 3B of all time.

Santo Should be in the Hall
I don't care what Bill James says. Ron Santo was third fiddle on a team that won nothing.
That's a stupid standard, but whatever. I'll go with Bill James over some hater.
Who would you consider his closest contemporary, Brooks Robinson?Brooks Robinson was arguably the greatest defensive 3rd baseman ever. He compiled 16 gold gloves during his career, was a 15 time all star, AL MVP in 1964, 2X WS champ and won the WS MVP one of those years.

Ron Santo doesn't reach the halfway point on any of those

For Bill James to call Ron Santo a better baseball player than Brooks Robinson because Santo put up better offensive numbers over a couple of years is ridiculous.

 
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