fatguyinalittlecoat
Footballguy
Yeah, I think he knew he'd be pissing people off. But I think he did it out of some misguided attempt at artistic expression, rather than as a prank on the audience.
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☞ Official SOPRANOS Thread (5 Viewers)
- Thread starter Raider Nation
- Start date
packersfan
Footballguy
Agreed.
cjdavis
Footballguy
Well, unless I missed it earlier (still working my way through this morning's comments), what idea/theme do you think he attempted to express but either failed at or chose wrong?I'm legitimately curious.
ETA: You too, packersfan.
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Funkley
Collar: Up
Here's mine: Meadow walks in and the guy from the bathroom comes out and gives Tony an odd look before walking away and then the show fades to black with the family having dinner. I could have lived with that because you don't have to lose Tony or anyone else but the previous tension allows you to remember that Tony is never safe. The abruptness of the fade to black was probably too much but it was unexpected, I'll give him that.IMO, no. Someone here had a good ending in which Meadow walks in and they sit and toast to everyones new/ fresh start.
The Gator
Footballguy
Agreed.Here's mine: Meadow walks in and the guy from the bathroom comes out and gives Tony an odd look before walking away and then the show fades to black with the family having dinner. I could have lived with that because you don't have to lose Tony or anyone else but the previous tension allows you to remember that Tony is never safe. The abruptness of the fade to black was probably too much but it was unexpected, I'll give him that.IMO, no. Someone here had a good ending in which Meadow walks in and they sit and toast to everyones new/ fresh start.
fatguyinalittlecoat
Footballguy
I think a lot of folks here have already identified the key themes that he was going for. People don't change much or in consistent ways. Life doesn't have neat beginnings and endings. Stuff like that.
Righetti
Footballguy
biggest problem with the soprano's last night
holsten's doesn't have onion rings on their menu
http://www.holstens.com/page0004.html
holsten's doesn't have onion rings on their menu
http://www.holstens.com/page0004.html
Evilgrin 72
Distributor of Pain
First the exchange above, then the guy comes to the door and Sam replies : "Sorry. We're closed." Walks away from the door towards the back, straightens the picture of the Indian that represents Coach, and walks into the pool room. End. Couldn't have been done better.Evilgrin 72 said:
_4_
Footballguy
The Noid said:The show ended with Tony at a diner with his family eating onion rings I predicted vanilla ice cream as the ending (have I mentioned that yet?)Christo said:You're calling the ending simple and understated????????The Noid said:. Compared to what people were predicting for how it would all end (Scarface killing spree, Tony flipping or going to jail, AJ running the family, etc.) yeah, I’d say so.
Evilgrin 72
Distributor of Pain
No, and I'm among those that, despite my initial reaction, have really come around to thinking the Sopranos ending is a lot better than people are giving it credit for. However, you have to admit, it was a big time buildup to no "payoff", which is what turns a lot of people off. No one should be surprised by this, as it is Chase's M.O., but that preceding scene was so tense (and the use of Journey really worked and I don't know how - if someone had suggested that song to me as the one they'd use in such a scene, I would have laughed out loud) that you expected SOMETHING to happen. When it didn't, it just felt sort of hollow. That's why I didn't like it at first, but the more I thought about it the more I did.Cheers' ending was similar in that you were left with the feeling that life just went on. There wasn't some huge event that caused the story to be wrapped up, it just ended. However, the way they wrote it gave the viewer an air of completion that was lacking in The Sopranos' ending, which is why it ruffled so many feathers.
jhib
Footballguy
I agree with your whole post, but I would say that each ending fit the show. Seinfeld was hilarious, but I was never emotionally attached to any characters or places in the show. Each episode would make me laugh out loud, but they weren't usually satisfying by the end. I was emotionally involved with Cheers characters, and for the most part, each episode was somewhat satisfying emotionally.I was also emotionally involved with Sopranos characters, but the episodes for the most part were not emotionally satisfying. I was always wondering what was going to be going on next, often disappointed that the storyteller wouldn't tell me (Russians, for example) but enjoyed being pulled along like that. I didn't really expect any different for the last episode. Well, really, I didn't know what to expect, but I'm actually happy it ended that way. Unsatisfied, yeah. But I thought that was cool.(edit to clear earlier quotes)
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Funkley
Collar: Up
I'm pretty much right there with you except that I liked it sooner.
avoiding injuries
Footballguy
Watched it for a second time today, sober. Wasn't as bad as I thought last night. I think I was too concerned with how much time was left and worried about what wasn't able to happen because of the time left.
The second time through, I knew what was going to happen so I was able to watch and enjoy. THe ending still gets to me that a number of things could happen but was left up in the air. I replayed Tony's last final scene. I thought maybe he was looking up at the two black guys but it appears the door chime got his attention and it was consistent with Meadow walking through the door.
So much was going on inside Holstens. Not just the people but also Tony telling Carm about the guy testifying and revealing his future problems. Good episode, needed one more minute to properly end.
The second time through, I knew what was going to happen so I was able to watch and enjoy. THe ending still gets to me that a number of things could happen but was left up in the air. I replayed Tony's last final scene. I thought maybe he was looking up at the two black guys but it appears the door chime got his attention and it was consistent with Meadow walking through the door.
So much was going on inside Holstens. Not just the people but also Tony telling Carm about the guy testifying and revealing his future problems. Good episode, needed one more minute to properly end.
PatsWillWin
Footballguy
I agree with that, yet I have no idea how that's supposed to answer my question.Drifter said:
packersfan
Footballguy
For me, it wasn't a question of him missing on any themes. It's just that he chose a particular path (the "it's not really an ending" ending or the "life goes on" ending) which failed to bring the show to a meaningful resolution. For me. I didn't need to see Tony get whacked - in fact I never expected that to happen as I said earlier - and I didn't need to see murder and mayhem. But I just wanted something of significance to happen that would bring this story to a close. Instead, Chase chose the "it's not really over" ending which to me, felt like a cliche because I've seen it done before. I actually think that given what Tony has all done of late the most fitting ending for him would have been victorious in his war against Phil but left alone, deserted by his family (the only thing in his life that had any true meaning). He's become a despicable character (even Gandolfini admitted it's become nearly impossible to like Tony after he murdered Christopher) and I think at some point at the end Chase needed to make some kind of moral judgment as to where Tony should stand. Instead, he chose not to, instead leaving it to our own interpretations.
That's fine and good I suppose to some degree but I can't help feeling like it's a cop out. I would have preferred that Chase took a position and stood fast on it as opposed to avoiding the issue completely as he chose to. But that's me.
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NY/NJMFDIVER
Footballguy
Strange, they used to/may still have them, it was not out of line to reference them, I know a lot of people who dug them before this show. Might be worth a trip to check it out
NY/NJMFDIVER
Footballguy
For my money, the Tony and Junior scene was one of the best in show history(I vaciliate between that and the Big ####hey whacking) .
I dug the close, but maybe that scene really scene really colored things, it was amazingly powerful to me.
I dug the close, but maybe that scene really scene really colored things, it was amazingly powerful to me.
R.I.P. Tony Soprano. After reading through the last several pages, and remembering the conversation he had with Bobby on the boat, it's the only thing that makes sense. This was my initial thought, that we were seeing it from Tony's perspective and he got popped in the side of the head.
I was kind of confused how Butchie changed so quickly from one episode to the next. He seemed to be the one that despised Tony the most, but he changed so fast.
It also seemed like everyone went from being on high alert, to not watching their backs in an instant.
It was still the best show on television imho, I just wanted to see the gun.
Now that think about it, I would have rather seen Scarface just end with Tony Montana sitting at his desk with his face in the mountain of yayo.
Chase should have ended the series with Vito Jr. stepping in his crap, that would have been classic
I was kind of confused how Butchie changed so quickly from one episode to the next. He seemed to be the one that despised Tony the most, but he changed so fast.
It also seemed like everyone went from being on high alert, to not watching their backs in an instant.
It was still the best show on television imho, I just wanted to see the gun.
Now that think about it, I would have rather seen Scarface just end with Tony Montana sitting at his desk with his face in the mountain of yayo.
Chase should have ended the series with Vito Jr. stepping in his crap, that would have been classic
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R.I.P. Tony Soprano. After reading through the last several pages, and remembering the conversation he had with Bobby on the boat, it's the only thing that makes sense. This was my initial thought, that we were seeing it from Tony's perspective and he got popped in the side of the head.
I was kind of confused how Butchie changed so quickly from one episode to the next. He seemed to be the one that despised Tony the most, but he changed so fast.
It also seemed like everyone went from being on high alert, to not watching their backs in an instant.
It was still the best show on television imho, I just wanted to see the gun.
ow that think about it, I would have rather seen Scarface just end with Tony Montana sitting at his desk with his face in the mountain of yayo. That would have been pure genius!
Chase should have ended the series with Vito Jr. stepping in his crap, that would have been classic
I was kind of confused how Butchie changed so quickly from one episode to the next. He seemed to be the one that despised Tony the most, but he changed so fast.
It also seemed like everyone went from being on high alert, to not watching their backs in an instant.
It was still the best show on television imho, I just wanted to see the gun.
ow that think about it, I would have rather seen Scarface just end with Tony Montana sitting at his desk with his face in the mountain of yayo.
That would have been pure genius!Chase should have ended the series with Vito Jr. stepping in his crap, that would have been classic
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this was a little odd to me as well. the NY guys said "we feel like this war has gone too far" or something like that. but, based on what was shown in the episodes, it seemed like the jersey guys were the ones getting wiped out and running scared. not sure why those guys were so willing to agree to a truce and betray Phil after basically backing his takeover not too long ago.
John Mamula
Moderator
i thought the same thing, but maybe after how phil was treating butchie he started to get 2nd thoughts especially knowing that with tony still alive he was on the top of the list to get killed. if phil wasn't going to take care of him why should he be risking his life?the whole "we need to talk after all of this" conversation when phil hung up on him showed this i thought.
videoguy505
Footballguy
Living on the West Coast, downloading it thru BitTorrent meant I was able to watch it before it aired in my time zone. If I were to do such a thing, of course, which I didn't. No, I'm only talking hypothetically.
John Mamula
Moderator
This may be true. But I wouldn't call highlighting American/Human fascination with the cheap-thrill or voyeurism as profound. It's basically a well tread theme in most horror films nowadays.The reason I disagree with this is, IMHO and only in retrospect, Chase telegraphed this ending (and his disdain for the cheap-thrill voyeur) in both last week's Bada-Bing hit on Silvio/Patsy and then again in the graphic demise of Phil Leotardo. It's all in the prolonged reaction shots of the Bing clientelle and the guys at the gas station last night.There was profound meaning in Chase's "prank". Can't say the same for Kutcher's.It's closer to Ashton Kushner then Andy Kaufman.cjdavis said:An ironicallyNipsey said:.The above is precisely why last night's ending was great. Chase single-handedly made 95% of the viewing public entertaining to the remaining 5% of us. Hope he at least has internet access in the south of France to savor all this.Andy Kaufman is smiling somewhere in heaven right now.
Capella
Footballguy
I don't know if I want to call it the best in show history quite yet, but it certainly started to get dusty during that scene last night.
QuizGuy66
Footballguy
Maybe that's how it ends. The waitress comes back and says "Sorry, we don't have onion rings" and then Tony whacks her. Members Only guy whacks Tony, AJ Whacks Members Only guy, dude in the corner whacks AJ and then the black dudes whack everybody who's left over. At the site of the carnage, Meadow whacks herself. It all makes sense now
-QG
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
I think with the grand jury the ending seemed to really scream arrest at the end not death. If they wanted to pop Tony they could have done it anywhere including when he was sitting out front of his known HQ at Satriale's. How many guys were killed in front of their families in this show? Phil was the exception because he had gone to ground. If Tony was getting hit, it wasn't going to be there in front of his family IMO. I just don't see it.
packersfan
Footballguy
Yup. Plus they made a rather big deal last week in saying that the families were safe and would not be harmed. Given how that's the apparent code, there's no way someone would take the chance of killing any member of Tony's family along with him. They'd do it when he was alone, with his crew or with someone not connected to his immediate family.He's alive.
Wyldfox
Footballguy
Borat
Footballguy
You people who didn't like the final episode are obviously a bunch of morons who just don't get this show, and probably never did. You people probably thought this show was about the mob. It wasn't.
Superb ending. Meadow being late because she couldn't parallel park? Genius. Junior's final scene with Tony? Completely unpredictable, and unforgettable. AJ's continued depression, followed by his sorta-kinda rebound? That's what makes for great TV. The cat grilling the picture of Christopher? Made me want to slap my mother across the face. The Phil Leotardo hit? Balls-out. Chase's final scene of the series? I guess only us intellectual types can truly appreciate the absolute brilliance behind it. My one single complaint with this episode is that we could have used a little more of AJ, and lot more of Janice. Jan might be the best and most important character in the show (next to Tony, of course).
I thought the dream dequences when Tony was in his coma was as good as television could get... but David Chase, good sir, you have outdone yourself yet again.
Superb ending. Meadow being late because she couldn't parallel park? Genius. Junior's final scene with Tony? Completely unpredictable, and unforgettable. AJ's continued depression, followed by his sorta-kinda rebound? That's what makes for great TV. The cat grilling the picture of Christopher? Made me want to slap my mother across the face. The Phil Leotardo hit? Balls-out. Chase's final scene of the series? I guess only us intellectual types can truly appreciate the absolute brilliance behind it. My one single complaint with this episode is that we could have used a little more of AJ, and lot more of Janice. Jan might be the best and most important character in the show (next to Tony, of course).
I thought the dream dequences when Tony was in his coma was as good as television could get... but David Chase, good sir, you have outdone yourself yet again.
well, if that was really Phil's nephew doing a revenge killing, the "code" may have gone out the window. Just saying. If he really thought there was no way he'd be killed when his his family was around, Tony never would have split up with them and their actual home should have been a pretty safe place for them to stay at.
EZD222
Footballguy
You people who didn't like the final episode are obviously a bunch of morons who just don't get this show, and probably never did. You people probably thought this show was about the mob. It wasn't.Superb ending. Meadow being late because she couldn't parallel park? Genius. Junior's final scene with Tony? Completely unpredictable, and unforgettable. AJ's continued depression, followed by his sorta-kinda rebound? That's what makes for great TV. The cat grilling the picture of Christopher? Made me want to slap my mother across the face. The Phil Leotardo hit? Balls-out. Chase's final scene of the series? I guess only us intellectual types can truly appreciate the absolute brilliance behind it. My one single complaint with this episode is that we could have used a little more of AJ, and lot more of Janice. Jan might be the best and most important character in the show (next to Tony, of course).I thought the dream dequences when Tony was in his coma was as good as television could get... but David Chase, good sir, you have outdone yourself yet again.
seahawk 17
Footballguy
I think the ending was fine. It leaves it open for a movie, which is where the big money will be made for everyone.
As for the ending, I think Tony lives. As the T.V viewer's emotions go so does Tony's. America was on the edge of it's seats thinking , that he was going to get arrested or whacked. That is the same feeling Tony has even though he is out trying to have a nice time with his family.
The best part of the ending for myself was when the screen went blank, and my wife started freaking out and screaming at someone to change the channel back.
As for the ending, I think Tony lives. As the T.V viewer's emotions go so does Tony's. America was on the edge of it's seats thinking , that he was going to get arrested or whacked. That is the same feeling Tony has even though he is out trying to have a nice time with his family.
The best part of the ending for myself was when the screen went blank, and my wife started freaking out and screaming at someone to change the channel back.
GRIDIRON ASSASSIN
Footballguy
I say the two gang bangers take over the place.
RBM
Footballguy
You people who didn't like the final episode are obviously a bunch of morons who just don't get this show, and probably never did. You people probably thought this show was about the mob. It wasn't.Superb ending. Meadow being late because she couldn't parallel park? Genius. Junior's final scene with Tony? Completely unpredictable, and unforgettable. AJ's continued depression, followed by his sorta-kinda rebound? That's what makes for great TV. The cat grilling the picture of Christopher? Made me want to slap my mother across the face. The Phil Leotardo hit? Balls-out. Chase's final scene of the series? I guess only us intellectual types can truly appreciate the absolute brilliance behind it. My one single complaint with this episode is that we could have used a little more of AJ, and lot more of Janice. Jan might be the best and most important character in the show (next to Tony, of course).I thought the dream dequences when Tony was in his coma was as good as television could get... but David Chase, good sir, you have outdone yourself yet again.
GRIDIRON ASSASSIN
Footballguy
Any Way You Want It was the bad Journey song used in Caddyshack. Don't Stop Believin' was last night's bad jukebox song.videoguy505 said:Aaron Rudnicki said:
It's just like the jukebox said: "Any Way You Like It"
HellToupee
Footballguy
Nice pic from the Sopranos cast member finale party
http://www.aventurausa.com/miami/magazine/...s-finale-35.jpg
http://www.aventurausa.com/miami/magazine/...s-finale-35.jpg
Red Apples
Footballguy
FYI
janice doesnt tell junior shes his daughter, she says she is olivia's daughter.
and all black people do not look alike.
janice doesnt tell junior shes his daughter, she says she is olivia's daughter.
and all black people do not look alike.
_4_
Footballguy
Your sig is rather dated. Gado is no longer very cool.
HellToupee
Footballguy
Steeler
Footballguy
When Phil got out of the van I was sure he was going to get it while on the phone, so the suddenness of the gun coming in from the left of the screen was great.
The dinner sceen was riveting and suspensful, and I have no problem with the "everything remains the same" type of ending, but I didn't like the immediate cut to black.
If Chase wanted us to know Tony got whacked we could have heard a gunshot then cut to black, or we could have seen the guy come out of the bathroom, pull a gun, then cut to black (the Bobby angle with never hearing it would still stand).
If Chase wanted us to know "everything remains the same", Meadow could have sat down, began a conversation or whatever and then fade out.
I guess I'm just not smart enough to understand the brilliance of being too lazy to come up with an ending
The dinner sceen was riveting and suspensful, and I have no problem with the "everything remains the same" type of ending, but I didn't like the immediate cut to black.
If Chase wanted us to know Tony got whacked we could have heard a gunshot then cut to black, or we could have seen the guy come out of the bathroom, pull a gun, then cut to black (the Bobby angle with never hearing it would still stand).
If Chase wanted us to know "everything remains the same", Meadow could have sat down, began a conversation or whatever and then fade out.
I guess I'm just not smart enough to understand the brilliance of being too lazy to come up with an ending
