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***OFFICIAL*** Washington Nationals ongoing thread (3 Viewers)

Don Quixote said:
Here's something with the math on the luxury tax.  Looks like they are $11.6m over the threshold, so it would require some decent clearing of contracts to get back under it this late in the year.  The players that they have to trade would probably end up making the comp pick somewhat irrelevant as I'm not sure there would be anyone to make a QO offer to.  

I'm more optimistic about next year than I was at the beginning of this year.  I thought 2019 was going to be a bit of a rebuilding year, but they should still have a lot of pieces coming back, and hopefully they spend the Harper/Murphy money more prudently elsewhere.
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Thanks for the luxury tax info, looks like they're a long ways off.  So much for that valuable comp pick.

They'll need to find starting pitching for next year but there are a lot of solid #3/#4 starter types in free agency in addition to Corbin (who would be a huge add and seems like a perfect fit).  Plus they presumably get Joe Ross back. I'm hoping for a 2017-18 Capitals type deal: one season after the supposed closing of their "window," come back with a still-talented but now under the radar team with less pressure on them, and make the magic happen.  Also Davey Martinez clearly wasn't ready for this gig IMO, you hope he'll be better with more experience and less pressure.

 
TobiasFunke said:
Does anyone even need a corner OF lefty three outcomes guy?  They're not all that difficult to find.
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If they aren't all that difficult to find then we shouldn't even be considering resigning the guy at what will be at least $30M/year and probably $40M/year and should be using that money to find a third SP to go with Max and Strasburg.

 
Don Quixote said:
I'd stand pat because 6 games back is not beyond all hope, and may as well see if they can get hot.
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It's not just 6 games back against a single team, which is easily do-able if Roark/Gio get hot or they add a decent starter.   It's the six teams they have to pass to do it.  And when Arizona, Colorado and San Francisco have to keep playing each other it means someone wins each of those games.  Arizona has 10 games against those two remaining (and four with Atlanta too).  Colorado has 13 against those two and four with Atlanta too.  SF has 13 against those two and three with Atlanta.

If Colorado and Arizona both play .500 the rest of the way (unlikely) then Washington has to finish 36-21 to force a three way tie and that's assuming the other teams don't pass all three of them.  Hard to imagine them playing .631 baseball the rest of the way and likely needing to play at least .667 baseball.

 
Ramblin Wreck said:
It's not just 6 games back against a single team, which is easily do-able if Roark/Gio get hot or they add a decent starter.   It's the six teams they have to pass to do it.  And when Arizona, Colorado and San Francisco have to keep playing each other it means someone wins each of those games.  Arizona has 10 games against those two remaining (and four with Atlanta too).  Colorado has 13 against those two and four with Atlanta too.  SF has 13 against those two and three with Atlanta.

If Colorado and Arizona both play .500 the rest of the way (unlikely) then Washington has to finish 36-21 to force a three way tie and that's assuming the other teams don't pass all three of them.  Hard to imagine them playing .631 baseball the rest of the way and likely needing to play at least .667 baseball.
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I was saying 6 games for division as opposed to wild card.  I think the division is easier to make up (not that that is easy on its own).  

 
If they trade stuff away I think that is dumb. Two months to play, tons of division games coming, and six games to make up on inexperienced teams. 

I think they need a starter, but it doesn’t have to be Walter Johnson. They have a nine game winning streak in them. 

 
Doctor Detroit said:
If they trade stuff away I think that is dumb. Two months to play, tons of division games coming, and six games to make up on inexperienced teams. 

I think they need a starter, but it doesn’t have to be Walter Johnson. They have a nine game winning streak in them. 
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Seems to be a lot of fluidity to their situation rather than a simple buy/sell position. .  I actually think the team is better this year if they move Harper for a major league quality starter,  because of the logjam in the OF and the starting pitching issues.  Can't bench Soto, Harper or Eaton obviously, but none of them can play CF competently.  Robles, on the other hand ...

 
TobiasFunke said:
Seems to be a lot of fluidity to their situation rather than a simple buy/sell position. .  I actually think the team is better this year if they move Harper for a major league quality starter,  because of the logjam in the OF and the starting pitching issues.  Can't bench Soto, Harper or Eaton obviously, but none of them can play CF competently.  Robles, on the other hand ...
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I think Zuckerman  posted something similar yesterday, bringing up the Red Sox trading away Nomar and then winning the World Series.  I can see how it would make sense.  Finding the right team for that swap is probably the challenge though.

 
Don Quixote said:
I think Zuckerman  posted something similar yesterday, bringing up the Red Sox trading away Nomar and then winning the World Series.  I can see how it would make sense.  Finding the right team for that swap is probably the challenge though.
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Yeah it would have to be someone who is secure with their playoff spot and has a deep rotation (so they can afford to part with a #3/#4 starter type) but also has a hole at a corner OF spot. Not a lot of those around.  Astros probably the best fit, or maybe Indians?

 
TobiasFunke said:
Yeah it would have to be someone who is secure with their playoff spot and has a deep rotation (so they can afford to part with a #3/#4 starter type) but also has a hole at a corner OF spot. Not a lot of those around.  Astros probably the best fit, or maybe Indians?
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Yeah, I was thinking maybe Indians or a three team trade.  Maybe some way to work Harper to the Indians, Chris Archer to the Nats, and prospects to the Rays.

 
Sounds Nats-like...

Jorge Castillo
@jorgecastillo

At least one team in touch with the Nationals heard the club had deals "lined up" for multiple players, including Bryce Harper, but got the sense ownership pulled the plug late last night.

10:13 AM - 31 Jul 2018

 
Chelsea Janes‏ @chelsea_janes

Mike Rizzo just reached out with this message: "Bryce is not going anywhere. I believe in this team."

I'm fine either way, but at least let baseball fans have a few hours of fun with crazy rumors and trade ideas!

 
Don Quixote said:
Sounds Nats-like...

Jorge Castillo
@jorgecastillo

At least one team in touch with the Nationals heard the club had deals "lined up" for multiple players, including Bryce Harper, but got the sense ownership pulled the plug late last night.

10:13 AM - 31 Jul 2018
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Ugh.  Whatever side you fall on with Harper let the GM do his job.  Owners running trades suck (and yes I know they sign the checks).  

 
TobiasFunke said:
Chelsea Janes‏ @chelsea_janes

Mike Rizzo just reached out with this message: "Bryce is not going anywhere. I believe in this team."

I'm fine either way, but at least let baseball fans have a few hours of fun with crazy rumors and trade ideas!
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Yeah, I'm guessing there must have been something to Castillo's tweet about ownership for Rizzo to put that out.  It must have been clear that the Lerners weren't going to trade him.

 
Looks like Nats are going the stand pat approach.  Although some rumors that Brewers are targeting Gio...

Bob Nightengale
@BNightengale

The #Nats say they likely will retain all of their relievers as well and go for the NL East title

10:57 AM - 31 Jul 2018

 
Don Quixote said:
Yeah, I'm guessing there must have been something to Castillo's tweet about ownership for Rizzo to put that out.  It must have been clear that the Lerners weren't going to trade him.
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My opinion of the Lerners has taken a Kanye West-like turn over the last several months.  The Dusty firing was the start of it, then the needless delay in extending Mike Rizzo, but they also seem to be meddling way too much in personnel decisions lately.  And of course the Doug Harris fiasco certainly doesn't help either. Not their best year.

 
The frustrating part for me isn’t what Harper could’ve fetched but also you’re getting nothing from Gio, Herrera, madson, maybe Kelley and Murphy too.  

A 52-53 team with serious SP issues, an average bullpen, a questionable manager at best and lack of prospects to even go get much reeks of a sell job to me as frustrating as that is.  Will likely lose most of the guys for next to nothing this winter when today is the day to set up the next 3-4 year window.   

Harper ain’t resigning in Washington. 

 
Ramblin Wreck said:
The frustrating part for me isn’t what Harper could’ve fetched but also you’re getting nothing from Gio, Herrera, madson, maybe Kelley and Murphy too.  

A 52-53 team with serious SP issues, an average bullpen, a questionable manager at best and lack of prospects to even go get much reeks of a sell job to me as frustrating as that is.  Will likely lose most of the guys for next to nothing this winter when today is the day to set up the next 3-4 year window.   

Harper ain’t resigning in Washington. 
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Machado only brought back one substantial prospect, I’m not sure Harper would have returned any more. Kelley would bring back nothing, probably not a good idea to trade the other two just 5.5 games back. 

I think they should resist the temptation to trade Robles for Realmuto though, but they need to get a starter for sure. 

 
Kintzler to the Cubs. Not seeing what they got yet though.

...If they were all-in, feels like they should have been able to beat PTBNL for Ramos. 

 
TobiasFunke said:
My opinion of the Lerners has taken a Kanye West-like turn over the last several months.  The Dusty firing was the start of it, then the needless delay in extending Mike Rizzo, but they also seem to be meddling way too much in personnel decisions lately.  And of course the Doug Harris fiasco certainly doesn't help either. Not their best year.
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They didn't fire Dusty, they just didn't extend his contract (which I think was a mistake).  The Lerners have never really valued managers that much though.  

I was hoping they'd pull out all the stops this year or next, Ted Lerner is 92 and I thought he'd like a World Series before he dies.

 
Don Quixote said:
Getting a 23 year old in High A for Kintzler.  Cool, cool.
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I don't think Kintzler is more than just average but if they are trying to win this year, this seems pretty stupid move to me.  Martinez already abuses his bullpen so now he has Herrera, Madson and Kelley for the backend until Doolittle is back.  Solis can't get anyone out and Miller has been meh since his first 15 games.

And they haven't fixed the starting pitching at all.  

 
Ramblin Wreck said:
I don't think Kintzler is more than just average but if they are trying to win this year, this seems pretty stupid move to me.  Martinez already abuses his bullpen so now he has Herrera, Madson and Kelley for the backend until Doolittle is back.  Solis can't get anyone out and Miller has been meh since his first 15 games.

And they haven't fixed the starting pitching at all.  
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Yeah, I'm not really sure what they doing.  If they were in sell mode, yeah, get whatever you can for him, even if it is a bag of balls.  The rest of their moves don't indicate that they are giving up on this year though.

Maybe the Nats' scouts are pretty high on Romero being a contributor -- hard to get excited about a 23 year old relief pitcher in high A with a 3.27 ERA though.

 
Ramblin Wreck said:
I don't think Kintzler is more than just average but if they are trying to win this year, this seems pretty stupid move to me.  Martinez already abuses his bullpen so now he has Herrera, Madson and Kelley for the backend until Doolittle is back.  Solis can't get anyone out and Miller has been meh since his first 15 games.

And they haven't fixed the starting pitching at all.  
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Kelley DFA after his throwing his glove down last night so cross him off.  2 RH relievers gone in 15 hours seems like an odd move.

 
thayman said:
Kelley DFA after his throwing his glove down last night so cross him off.  2 RH relievers gone in 15 hours seems like an odd move.
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Kind of weird after I thought he should have been DFA'd for sucking, and they were keeping other guys down to keep him on the roster.  He was actually pitching a bit better lately.

I thought it was an inappropriate, but not sure it was worth a DFA just for that.  Certainly would not have happened to a better pitcher, or a batter after throwing his bat.

 
Don Quixote said:
Kind of weird after I thought he should have been DFA'd for sucking, and they were keeping other guys down to keep him on the roster.  He was actually pitching a bit better lately.

I thought it was an inappropriate, but not sure it was worth a DFA just for that.  Certainly would not have happened to a better pitcher, or a batter after throwing his bat.
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I'm not sure either, also I always thought Rizzo and Kelley were super friendly with one another.  Really odd situation.

 
thayman said:
Kelley DFA after his throwing his glove down last night so cross him off.  2 RH relievers gone in 15 hours seems like an odd move.
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Ugh I read about the glove thing but didn't see it.  Reading it my impression was he was pissed he couldn't breeze through an inning up 20 runs but was it more than that?

What's done is done and can't change yesterday at all but I have a feeling this team isn't catching Atlanta or Phily and they are going to regret not selling off several players for 8-10 prospects.   When is Doolittle coming back?  Herrera and Madson are the only reliable relievers right now and I don't even say that with confidence because they are overworked.  Kelley actually had some decent numbers though I wouldn't trust him in an 8th/9th inning of a big game.   

 
Ramblin Wreck said:
Ugh I read about the glove thing but didn't see it.  Reading it my impression was he was pissed he couldn't breeze through an inning up 20 runs but was it more than that?

What's done is done and can't change yesterday at all but I have a feeling this team isn't catching Atlanta or Phily and they are going to regret not selling off several players for 8-10 prospects.   When is Doolittle coming back?  Herrera and Madson are the only reliable relievers right now and I don't even say that with confidence because they are overworked.  Kelley actually had some decent numbers though I wouldn't trust him in an 8th/9th inning of a big game.   
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I was watching (I tuned out, but then tuned back in for the comedy of Reyes pitching).  Kelley said afterwards that he was angry because the umps were telling him to slow it down and then speed it up, and then he gave up the homer which caused the glove toss.  He stared at the dugout after slamming the glove. FP and Carpenter were speculating that he was angry about being out there in that situation (which did not make sense to me, but they only sometimes make sense to me).

I'm not really sure why he stared at the dugout.  Maybe just like any of us would look at our boss after doing something in front of him/her we know we shouldn't do at work?

 
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Don Quixote said:
I was watching (I tuned out, but then tuned back in for the comedy of Reyes pitching).  Kelley said afterwards that he was angry because the umps were telling him to slow it down and then speed it up, and then he gave up the homer which caused the glove toss.  He stared at the dugout after slamming the glove. FP and Carpenter were speculating that he was angry about being out there in that situation (which did not make sense to me, but they only sometimes make sense to me).

I'm not really sure why he stared at the dugout.  Maybe just like any of us would look at our boss after doing something in front of him/her we know we shouldn't do at work?
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It was weird, I took it as Kelley was thinking he shouldn't be out there.  Which is odd to me because not only has he not been that great this year the team hasn't either.

 
Kintzler was on 106.7 this morning and said he wasn’t the link to the Passan article at Yahoo. He said he knows for a fact that source wasn’t a player. Said he didn’t even know who “Passani” was before the article. 

He was really pissed, and I don’t blame him. 

Kelley lost his cool and should have been fined/benched but DFAing seemed drastic. I won’t pretend to know the whole story but Kelley has always been one of those well liked jokester types. This is all very strange and dysfunctional. 

 
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Doctor Detroit said:
Kintzler was on 106.7 this morning and said he wasn’t the link to the Passan article at Yahoo. He said he knows for a fact that source wasn’t a player. Said he didn’t even know who “Passani” was before the article. 

He was really pissed, and I don’t blame him. 

Kelley lost his cool and should have been fined/benched but DFAing seemed drastic. I won’t pretend to know the whole story but Kelley has always been one of those well liked jokester types. This is all very strange and dysfunctional. 
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Seeing from some people on Twitter that it was not the Passan article, but the WaPo article from a week or two ago with relief pitchers complaining about getting warmed up, but not coming into the game.

 
Don Quixote said:
Seeing from some people on Twitter that it was not the Passan article, but the WaPo article from a week or two ago with relief pitchers complaining about getting warmed up, but not coming into the game.
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They made it sound like the WaPo article came from information in the Passan article. Regardless, that’s a mess. 

 
Doctor Detroit said:
They made it sound like the WaPo article came from information in the Passan article. Regardless, that’s a mess. 
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I think Martinez is in over his head.  Wouldn't surprise me if he's one and done.  The bullpen usage has been awful.  The base running has been worse.

I will say there hasn't been any chirping from the position players about their roles.  There are probably 11 of those guys that could claim they should be playing every day.

 
They really missed the boat on Treinen, he’s a legit top 5 closer. He’s the right-handed version of Zach Britton, his 99 mph power sinker might be the best pitch in baseball. 

Then again they probably would have just DFA’d him for no reason. :mellow:  

 
Doctor Detroit said:
They really missed the boat on Treinen, he’s a legit top 5 closer. He’s the right-handed version of Zach Britton, his 99 mph power sinker might be the best pitch in baseball. 

Then again they probably would have just DFA’d him for no reason. :mellow:  
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I think most Nats watchers were pretty high on him after 2016, but I think he needed the change of scenery.

From what I’ve read, he was able to work out some things in Oakland last year because they let him pitch through it in a more low pressure environment. 

Nats:RPs::Browns:QB’s.

 
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Feels like a monster game this afternoon. If they steal one with Jefry Rodriguez on the mound, they're 5 back of Philly and just 3.5 back of Atlanta with Scherzer starting the second game of the DH, and all things are possible. Lose and it feels like they're back where they were two weeks ago.

 
Nothing like heading into the biggest series of the season where they must win three out of four and rolling with Jeffry Rodriguez on the mound.  Hope the bats are hot today.

 
Last night was a bit of a gut punch between Herrera blowing it to be followed by likely hitting the DL.  Need this one today so can at least split the series.  I have more faith in Milone than Gio right now.

 
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