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Any Aquarium guys? (1 Viewer)

TLEF316

Footballguy
Pretty self explanatory. Im looking to start up an aquarium. Im thinking somewhere in the 50-60 gallon range, freshwater. Id like to do live plants, but i think that might be a little ambitious for a beginner. Any tips? What am i looking at in terms of overall start up cost? Just how big of a pain is it to do weekly maintenance? Thanks in advance.

And o yeah, before anyone points me there, i have visited fishforums.net. Alot of useful info there(i learned a ton about the nitrogen cycle and how certain fish need to be kept in groups). Im really just looking for some FBG opinions about the pros and cons of doing this. again, thanks.

edit: and some good book recomendations would be awesome if anyone has them

 
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I keep a lot of tanks, I can give you a few pointers.

55 gallon tanks are the largest tank produced in large numbers, so consequently the most affordable. It's a good sized tank that can house most of the fish available in the hobby. The bigger the tank is, the easier the environment is to maintain, so you're making a good call by not starting with a 10 gallon tank.

Cost is going to vary depending on what exactly you want to keep. A 55 gallon tank and top is still (I think) around $100, with stand, filter, gravel, etc. you're probably somewhere between $300-$400. Live plants will make this more expensive, as the lighting required for a serious planted tank is not cheap. I recommend Aquaclear brand power filters for a couple of reasons. The foam doesn't get replaced (if your local retailer tell you to replace the foam than find another store) so you have continuous biological filtration. They run nearly forever. They're versatile if you need to run chemical filtration. The 300 gallon per hour model is ideal for a 55. Make sure you get a good quality heater as well; fish don't necessarily need high temps, but they don't tolerate fluctuating temps.

Check your local paper, Aquabid.com, craigslist, etc. Used tanks are not that hard to come by.

Maintenance is pretty straightforward. Feed daily, in moderation. Rinse the foam in the filter (using tank water or dechlorinated tap water) about once a week. Do partial water changes. 25% weekly, or even every other week, is fine for most tanks. Use a 'gravel vacuum' for your water changes to remove debris from the gravel. The Python brand of gravel vac is a great product, it hooks up to a sink or outdoor faucet, using a water bed drain/fill attachment, so you don't have to screw around with buckets. Depending on your water pressure, you can probably get your water changes done in about a 1/2 hour.

The newer Barron's books and the books from Bowtie press are pretty good beginning books. Most of the TFH books are garbage.

Hope this helps. Let me know if you have any other questions.

 
I keep a lot of tanks, I can give you a few pointers.55 gallon tanks are the largest tank produced in large numbers, so consequently the most affordable. It's a good sized tank that can house most of the fish available in the hobby. The bigger the tank is, the easier the environment is to maintain, so you're making a good call by not starting with a 10 gallon tank.Cost is going to vary depending on what exactly you want to keep. A 55 gallon tank and top is still (I think) around $100, with stand, filter, gravel, etc. you're probably somewhere between $300-$400. Live plants will make this more expensive, as the lighting required for a serious planted tank is not cheap. I recommend Aquaclear brand power filters for a couple of reasons. The foam doesn't get replaced (if your local retailer tell you to replace the foam than find another store) so you have continuous biological filtration. They run nearly forever. They're versatile if you need to run chemical filtration. The 300 gallon per hour model is ideal for a 55. Make sure you get a good quality heater as well; fish don't necessarily need high temps, but they don't tolerate fluctuating temps.Check your local paper, Aquabid.com, craigslist, etc. Used tanks are not that hard to come by.Maintenance is pretty straightforward. Feed daily, in moderation. Rinse the foam in the filter (using tank water or dechlorinated tap water) about once a week. Do partial water changes. 25% weekly, or even every other week, is fine for most tanks. Use a 'gravel vacuum' for your water changes to remove debris from the gravel. The Python brand of gravel vac is a great product, it hooks up to a sink or outdoor faucet, using a water bed drain/fill attachment, so you don't have to screw around with buckets. Depending on your water pressure, you can probably get your water changes done in about a 1/2 hour.The newer Barron's books and the books from Bowtie press are pretty good beginning books. Most of the TFH books are garbage. Hope this helps. Let me know if you have any other questions.
thanks for the response. Is the hastle and cost of dealing with real plants worth it for a beginner? If not, i guess i could just go with drift wood and rock formations.
 
Here is a great site to buy most anything you'll need (other than the tank iteself & grave/rock due to it's weight) shipping is very reasonable and it's UPS 2nd day. You'll find the prices on media, filters etc. about 50%-60% cheaper than what you'll find at a Petsmart or other retail outlet.

That Fish Place

I think Guapote is pretty close in the expected cost of a 55 gallon. If you going to go with a larger tank or plan to keep Cichlids (especially South American) I recommend using a Fluidized Bed Filter (Marine Life) for biological filtration and a large canister (Eheim etc.) as these fish grow big and create a large amount of waste. The fluidized bed filters are self contained and require zero maintenance after setup and if the canister is big enough (I recommend one that circulates 8x to 10x the tank volume per hour) you only need to spend about 45 minutes every 6 months cleaning it/replacing media. The rest is weekly water changes which will only take about 30 minutes if you get a Python and glass/acrylic cleaning.

As far as live plants go there is a wide variety to chose from, I've found Amazon Swords to be the hardiest and they require the least maintance. Banana plants seem to do very well too (at least in my tanks.)

I currently have over 1000 gallons of tanks in my house, feel free to PM me with any questions.

My next move is a Jellyfish tank, I'm looking at building a custom one as the only ones commercially available are running betwen 12k-15k for a 90 gallon all inclusive (filtration, chiller, stand/walll unit)

 
thanks for the response. Is the hastle and cost of dealing with real plants worth it for a beginner? If not, i guess i could just go with drift wood and rock formations.
Drift wood & rock are very expensive if you are buying them from a store, if not, you have to make sure everything is boiled first to kill any parasites etc. before placing in your tank. You also want to make sure that any rock is not leeching, this will affect your water quality and the health of your fish. Live plants do not need to be expensive, if you use hearty plants like the Amazon swords I mentioned earlier they will last for years, even with fish nibbling on them. I learned this the hard way, my first experience with them was with a 40 gallon Turtle tank that I bought/modified. I wanted live plants for the two turtles to occasionally munch one, for esthetics and also for their abilty to rid the tank of Nitrate. I bought a "South American Riverbed mixture - or something like that that was a who;e kit for a 55 gallon tank. I found that many of the plants "break up" or "fractionalize" clogging up smaller filters clouding the water and making the tank appear "pond like." The Amazon Swords, Banana Plants, Congensis & Cryptocoryne Ciliata where the plants that thrived and did not make a mess. Just my .02 but if you get the right plants and you water quality is good they will last a really long time with the right lighting. I still have many of the original plants from 2004 in that 40 gallon Turtle Tank.
 
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Never buy a new tank unless you are a serious hobbyist. Heck, I'm serious and the last tank I purchased was used. Also - beware...... it can be addicting. If you need marine advice feel free to ask me, I've been in the hobby for 20+ years though I know little about fresh water. Also a great source of advice for marine issues is www.reefcentral.com Many people there know seemingly everything. It even has a wonderful reef chemistry forum :pokey:

I know that it doesn't matter if it's fresh or marine - the larger the tank (to a point) the easier to keep a stable environment, which is what's more important when we choose to keep animals as our captive pets.

 
I know that it doesn't matter if it's fresh or marine - the larger the tank (to a point) the easier to keep a stable environment, which is what's more important when we choose to keep animals as our captive pets.
:goodposting: Too bad there isn't an "Excellent posting" emoticon because phthalatemagic is right on here, the larger the body of water the less volatile the tank is. Sure some fish are way more hardy than others but all should be housed in a stable envirnment to reduce stress. Breeding will only take place under opimal conditions.Also, another great point is the "addictiveness" of the hobby. Start with a 10 gallon and you'll have several 20/29's and a 55 before long. Start with a 55 and you'll have a 70/90, a 120 and a 150 before you know it. I started with a 55 that was in the wall between the livfing room and the family room, no front or back as both sides were open (filters on the ends.) I still have it, although I had to re-silicon it after it began failing at 9 years. That is one thing that I need to mention, if you go with used tanks (or even new for that matter) understand that they will fail at some point. Tanks are usually insurred for 7 years and rated for 10 to 12. I've found that most fail right around this time. If you are handy it's no big deal to re-seal these.
 
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Also, another great point is the "addictiveness" of the hobby. Start with a 10 gallon and you'll have several 20/29's and a 55 before long. Start with a 55 and you'll have a 70/90, a 120 and a 150 before you know it. I started with a 55 that was in the wall between the livfing room and the family room, no front or back as both sides were open (filters on the ends.) I still have it, although I had to re-silicon it after it began failing at 9 years.
:goodposting: Oy...memories......

What's really great IMO is that I wasn't even interested doing my own acrylic and plumbing work, and now I wouldn't think of not doing most of the work myself. It's pretty rewarding build a habitat for your animals from the ground up, instead of purchasing a bunch of things at a store or online. Warning: don't do DYI acrylic work unless you don't mind making several mistakes. http://www.melevsreef.com/ has some fun plans for tanks/sumps/fuges, but don't start out that way, that's something you should ease into. I'm probably getting way ahead here though.... I'm just scrolling through my aquarium history.....

Ohhh - whenever you do get a tank up and going - Do some shopping around for local fish stores. Go into the stores and just hang around for a while, see how the employees interact with the customers. I'm certain Penguin can attest that unfortunately there are some (and they probably aren't rampant, but the bad ones ruin it for the good ones out there) LFS employees that will more or less say anything to get you to buy a fish, ignoring fish compatibility issues or minimum tank volume issues. Listen to their advice and compare it to a book, other stores and good advice websites/message boards. Doing all of this can help you find a store that will take care of you and look out for what's best for your aquarium, instead of just selling someone a fish. You can always mail order most stuff including livestock, but nothing replaces an informed, engaged and sincere local store employee trying to help you make a fun aquarium in a face to face context. :)

Good luck and have fun!

 
I hope it is alright if I sort of hijack this thread. I was wondering if anyone could give any tips about turning a freshwater aquarium into a saltwater aquarium. I have a 130 gallon tank. Freshwater tanks are pretty easy to maintain, but I heard the exact opposite about saltwater. Would I be getting in over my head?

 
Wow, I didn't think I'd run across other serious hobbyists on a fantasy football site. I've got about 135 tanks, a lot of empties right now, but had most of them running in the recent past. I can definitely attest that the hobby is addicting. Out of the 135 tanks, I bought two of these new, and that was just to finish out a rack, so yeah, used tanks are easy to come by.

Penguin has had different results than I have with plants. In my tanks, under medium lighting, I've had mediocre results with Amazon swords. They last a long time for me, but don't thrive. I've done really well with Java moss (which will clog your filter intakes), Java fern, Bacopa, and Vallisneria in a few tanks. Regarding rocks and driftwood, you can get this cheaper than aquarium stores, but there is a risk involved. Most of my rockwork is Florida limestone; I had a friend clearing land, and went out there with a sledgehammer after all the big rocks were scrapped to the side. I also have a bunch of rocks from a local stone and tile store. I usually rinse them, then set them up for a month plus in an empty tank, flush the tank several times, and then use some 'trial fish' to make sure the rocks are safe. A lot of hassle, but you can save a lot of money, especially with multiple tanks. I've always felt pretty safe using driftwood I collect off the coast in freshwater. I guess this isn't applicable if you don't live near the coast, but I've never had problems. Again, it takes some work to clean up, but if it's been floating in the ocean for a long time you don't get too much trouble with tannins.

Do you have any idea what you want to keep in the tank? A tank full of rockwork and some of the smaller Malawian cichlids will nearly rival a marine tank if you're looking for colorful fish. The Central American cichlids tend to have a lot more personality, but not as much color. Lots of options with standard community type fish. Any idea what your water parameters are (pH and hardness)?

I like the fluidized bed filters Penguin suggested, not a fan of any cannister filters. This is probably my 'low-tech' bias; most of my tanks are set up with air driven sponge filters, at a low density, with lots of water changes. I've found cannister filters are enough of a hassle to maintain that I never maintained them properly. I'm told the newer ones are a lot better than the old Fluvals I had, but they're too fancy and pricey for me.

Very good post from phthalatemagic about finding a good local store. If you find a store that treats you right support them as much as you can.

Girl A, regarding converting to saltwater, it is a bit more of a hassle, but not as bad as a lot of folks make it out to be. You'll need to go with a crushed coral/aragonite type substrate, which helps to keep the pH up. You may need to upgrade your filtration, depending on what you're using now, and what sort of density you want to keep. I've kept some marine tanks over the years, and the biggest hassle is that you can't do your water changes out of your tap. You need to have a make up vat, such as a garbage can, with the water mixed to the right specific gravity and pH. If you're looking at keeping corals, than it's a lot more work, and a lot more expensive. If you're looking at a fish-only tank, that's going to be your major difference. There are options for filtering out nitrate with resins or an anaerobic filter, but I've never messed with that, just lots of water changes.

 
Do partial water changes. 25% weekly, or even every other week, is fine for most tanks. Use a 'gravel vacuum' for your water changes to remove debris from the gravel. The Python brand of gravel vac is a great product, it hooks up to a sink or outdoor faucet, using a water bed drain/fill attachment, so you don't have to screw around with buckets. Depending on your water pressure, you can probably get your water changes done in about a 1/2 hour.
This is excellent advice but I never do this for my 40 gallon tank. I know I should but I am so busy with other junk that I never get around to doing the 25% water change. I typically add a couple gallons of fresh water every 2 or 3 weeks, whenever I see the tank starting to get low due to evaporation. I also never vacuum. :popcorn: I have a combination undergravel filter and Tetra Whisper Filter 60 and they seem to do a good job -- most of my fish are 5 years or older.
 
I've got about 135 tanks, a lot of empties right now, but had most of them running in the recent past.
Do you live in a warehouse?
:shrug: No, I have a 30' x 20' 'fish room' on the side of the house, lots of smaller (10 and 20 gallon) tanks, many in racks three high. The 200 gallon, the two 125s, a 60 hex, 60 high, a 38, and few really old metal frame tanks are in the house proper. The guys that said this is addicting aren't kidding. Needless to say, I'm single.
 
I've got about 135 tanks, a lot of empties right now, but had most of them running in the recent past.
Do you live in a warehouse?
:shrug: No, I have a 30' x 20' 'fish room' on the side of the house, lots of smaller (10 and 20 gallon) tanks, many in racks three high. The 200 gallon, the two 125s, a 60 hex, 60 high, a 38, and few really old metal frame tanks are in the house proper. The guys that said this is addicting aren't kidding. Needless to say, I'm single.
Sounds fishy.
 
I have a 55 gallon take in my living room. Its great for the 2 or 3 weeks after you clean it each month but its a headache to clean and should really be cleaned every month. I have African cichilds and some schooling fish, I've also tried live plants but the cichlids tear them apart and uproot them. The plants are expensive so for now I am out of that business. The next biggest headache is a getting the water chemical correct for the fish to survive at 1st, once you get that going you are set.

 
wow, thanks for all the great advice guys.

Im pretty sure im going to buy a new, glass tank. Id rather spend a little extra money and know that im getting something with a warranty.

As for what i plan on keeping, im not totally sure yet. I figure ill start with some basic schooling fish and kinda work my way up. I really havent done any research at all into Cichlids or anything. My research so far has been centered around how to start the nitrogen cycle and finding hardy and somewhat compatible fish to get the tank started.

At this point, the most common advice ive seen is that a small school of zebra Dainos (sp?) is a good start. Apparently they are inexpensive, very hardy and fairly good looking fish. One diference of opinion that ive seen is how people prefer to start the nitrogen cycle. I know you arent just supposed to just throw fish in there, but ive seen some people claim that you should use fish to start the cycle. (such as the Dainos) Others claim that using fish food or pure amonia to start the cycle is safer. Any thoughts? What do you guys do?

In all likelyhood, im still a few months away from doing this, but i figured id start doing my research now.

edit: one thing im pretty sure i dont want to have are livebearers. I really dont want to deal with the hastle of fry and having to find places to put those that survive.

 
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:fishing: No, I have a 30' x 20' 'fish room' on the side of the house, lots of smaller (10 and 20 gallon) tanks, many in racks three high. The 200 gallon, the two 125s, a 60 hex, 60 high, a 38, and few really old metal frame tanks are in the house proper. The guys that said this is addicting aren't kidding.
:yes: :lol: I only have two 100s right now, one houses a peacock mantis shrimp and a peppermint hogfish. My other tank is a reef with mostly corals and two anthias. I intend on building a 500 gallon in wall, but my current residence is temporary. I read someone's account of raising cuttlefish, that sounds pretty interesting, maybe I'll have to get another tank....
 
Pretty self explanatory. Im looking to start up an aquarium. Im thinking somewhere in the 50-60 gallon range, freshwater. Id like to do live plants, but i think that might be a little ambitious for a beginner. Any tips? What am i looking at in terms of overall start up cost? Just how big of a pain is it to do weekly maintenance? Thanks in advance.And o yeah, before anyone points me there, i have visited fishforums.net. Alot of useful info there(i learned a ton about the nitrogen cycle and how certain fish need to be kept in groups). Im really just looking for some FBG opinions about the pros and cons of doing this. again, thanks.edit: and some good book recomendations would be awesome if anyone has them
Fish dont belong in an aquarium, man. They belong in the ocean. :hippie:
 
I've got an 80 gallon tank with 2 Red Belly Pirahna, 4 giant danios and a lobster. The thing is an absolute pain in the ### to keep clean. I'm assuming it is because of the food they get (fish fillets, squid, krill, etc) and the gigantic mess they make while eating.

But like the other posters have said, with your typical fish it will only take about an hour of week maintainence to keep it looking great.

 
Nice to see you doing some research before getting this going. Regarding cycling; fishless cycling works fine in theory, in practice I've had mixed results. The best way to cycle a tank, in my opinion, is using hardy fish at a low density, and gradually adding more fish. Zebra danios are pretty sturdy and should work well for this. Giant danios are also a good choice, but might be a little too big depending on what you want to put in there later. Tiger barbs are nearly indestructible, but they tend to be fin nippers and limit what you can put in later. Avoid most of the small colorful tetras till your tank is cycled. Neons, cardinals, etc will almost certainly die during your cycling, serpaes, lemons, black tetras, and some of the other larger types may do OK. Gouramis work well, but it's not easy finding good stock, most of the farm raised stuff has health issues.

If you like livebearers, you shouldn't worry about getting overpopulation. Your other fish will take care of that. Having said that, most of the livebearers available in the hobby today are garbage, and rarely do well. If you find a local store that gets some stock from local breeders you may be able to get good fish, but the junk that comes out of Florida and Asia tends to have a very high mortality rate. Same thing with freshwater angelfish, stay far away from these unless they are locally produced. You can ignore that if you find a local store that quarantines their stock, but those are hard to find anymore, especially for freshwater.

If you're going with a community tank and are considering live plants down the road, you might want to use flourite or another planted tank substrate initially. I've had decent results using flourite and gravel in about a 1:2 ratio. I'd suggest doing this initially because the stuff is so messy when you add it to a tank (no matter how much you rinse it) you have to wait a few days to let it settle. You won't be able to add this later with fish in the tank. I've heard the CaribSea brand plant substrate isn't nearly as bad, but I haven't used that yet.

Good luck, keep the questions coming if there's anything else you need.

 
yeah, i think i will go with a planting tank substrate, because i think i will want to plant eventually. I think to start, ill probably just get some interesting pieces of wood and maybe do some rock formations with some slate or something.

I think i want to plant eventually, but not to the point that the tank is more plants than fish.

If you could, could you just do a quick run through on how you would start a brand new tank from scratch. Im thinking its sort of like this....

1) Set up tank

2) Wash and put in gravel/ substrate

3) set up all rocks and other decorations

4) fill tank(most suggest using a pie plate or other shallow dish to reduce gravel displacement)

5) Set up heating and filtering

6) let tank run for a while to get rid of any water impurities and any dust kicked up during filling

7) Partial water change?

8) Find some tough fish to produce amonia to kick start the nitro cycle

9) slowly add more fish, checking changes in water levels with each addition

Am i missing anything? Do you guys have a quarantine tank for new fish, or do you just dump them in?

edit: id much rather have a tank that looks like this but with a few more plants (obviously this tank is massive and much taller than the tank i would get)

as opposed to something like http://rockymountaindiscus.com/images/leeland.jpg

 
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I've got a 29 gal freshwater with some tropicals in it--Rainbow Shark, Angelfish, some bronze corys and an oto. Going to have to get a couple more otos and some zebra danios soon.

Anyway, thinking of getting a small frog for the tank, but it's a tall 29 and I keep the water level near the top. Do frogs need a lot of access to airspace at the top? Should I wait for another tank before putting a frog in this one?

 
I don't know what the NO2 cycle pertains to in fresh water, but IMO it isn't ethically sound to cycle an aquarium with fish. Can fresh water aquariums cycle with a piece of dead meat (shrimp?) or some food? Un-cycled fresh water may not as taxing of an environment as salt water, but IMO it's still our duty to not use them as tools to conduct a NO2 cycle. I don't want to sound like I'm on a high-horse or anything, but if you can get it done without putting the fish through trauma, why not?

 
I actually worked at a fish shop way back when. Interestingly, we would always get high stress or heart patients coming in to start-up with the hobby. Doctors would tell them it was a great way to unwind or relieve stress. Makes sense.

Someone mentioned doing a jelly-fish tank...now that would be sweet. :shrug:

 
Am i missing anything? Do you guys have a quarantine tank for new fish, or do you just dump them in?
Quarantine tank is ALWAYS a good idea. :goodposting:
what kind of setup you run for that? Cheap ten gallon tank with basic heating and filtering?
I have a 20.It's blank right now because my tanks are mature and I haven't put anything in them in a while, but I still do 10% water changes weekly and test the water. It's a cheapo used tank with an on-top carbon filter, the filtration is nothing like my two big tanks, but it doesn't have to be so don't worry about that.edit: You can probably buy a used small QT tank with filter and light for 30 bucks used. I'd stay away from 10 gallons because it gets a bit unstable and if your fish are sick you want to provide a stable environment for them.edit2: but if you think you are keep an eye on the water params, then 10 gallons may be just fine, especially for fresh, since it is less complicated (you don't have to worry about specific gravity, other chemicals do not get as insane as salt) so I don't want to scare you away from 10 gallon, especially if the folks here with fresh experience say they do fine with them :P
 
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one more question..... You guys prefer glass or acryllic? Im guessing that glass is cheaper, but heavier and more fragile. acryllic is more dificult to clean and has a sort of yellowish tint to it. am i right here?

 
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Anybody see that Crank Yankers episode where the partially deaf dude from a local fraternity calls into the local fish store to gripe about his fish losing a fight and stuff? HILARIOUS!

 
Girl A, regarding converting to saltwater, it is a bit more of a hassle, but not as bad as a lot of folks make it out to be. You'll need to go with a crushed coral/aragonite type substrate, which helps to keep the pH up. You may need to upgrade your filtration, depending on what you're using now, and what sort of density you want to keep. I've kept some marine tanks over the years, and the biggest hassle is that you can't do your water changes out of your tap. You need to have a make up vat, such as a garbage can, with the water mixed to the right specific gravity and pH. If you're looking at keeping corals, than it's a lot more work, and a lot more expensive. If you're looking at a fish-only tank, that's going to be your major difference. There are options for filtering out nitrate with resins or an anaerobic filter, but I've never messed with that, just lots of water changes.
Would a sand filteration system work? Have you had any experience with one of these systems?About the vat. I have put some thought into this and talked to a guy about setting up an automatic water changing system. The second tank would be set up in the basement. I believe he said something about connecting it in with the plumbing. I am not 100% sure. This way there would be a reserve tank ready at all times. I am not sure how it would work. :ptts:

I am sure it will be a new challenge.

 
TLEF316, your list is spot on. I'd probably do a full water change after everything settles, refill, let it sit another day or so, and then add some hardy fish.

As phthalatemagic mentioned, a quarantine tank is a great idea. Most of my tanks are species tanks, so I rarely have to worry about this, but I'm currently setting up my 200 as a South American community tank and after the initial set up everything will be quarantined. You'll get various opinions on this, but I like to quarantine for at least 14 days. A small (10 or 20 gallon) tank, bare bottom, air driven sponge filter and small heater is all you really need. You'll need to keep a couple of fish in the tank to keep it cycled, or keep the filter in your main tank (probably not aesthetically pleasing enough for most display tanks). Alternatively, you could put a small extra power filter on your 55 and move it to the quarantine tank when you need it, just make sure you disinfect the filter before returning it to the main tank.

Regarding cycling, I don't think freshwater fish are as sensitive to NH3 and NO2, and if you start with a light stocking density the levels don't get too elevated. I understand the arguments for fishless cycling, but if you watch the fish and do water changes if they look stressed I don't think it's that big of a deal (I mean it's not overly stressful, not that it's not a big deal to use the fish in this way). The principals are same in fresh or salt water, so you can, in theory, use ammonia, shrimp, etc to get the cycling started in freshwater as well. I always have spare cycled sponge filters to move around so I haven't had to worry about this for years, and haven't done fishless cycling.

If you're going with a planted tank, the cannister filters mentioned earlier in this thread are probably a good idea. You'll lose less CO2 from the system by having less surface water flow. Like I mentioned before, they're more high-tech than anything I use now, hopefully somebody else hear and/or your local retailer can point you in the right direction.

Videoguy, be careful what frogs you put in. The clawed frogs (Xenopus) get big and will eat all your fish. I used to have one that ate full grown mice. The dwarf frogs should do OK, they can pull oxygen from the water using through their skin. Floating plants are helpful for them. The biggest problem is that they don't always go onto prepared foods well. Some of the only eat live blackworms, mosquito larvae, etc. A friend of mine has had good results with HBH brand frog and newt food, I'd give that a try if you get any frogs.

 
I have acrylic everything. I customize everything myself though. You cannot customize glass as easy. I think acrylic is actually a bit cheaper in the mid-sizes (40-200 gallons) and glass is cheaper on the outliers. Heck - my QT tank (20 gallons) is just plastic. :P It was really cheap! :ptts:

The cheap, regular glass has a green tint to it is the color is not as true as acrylic. The expensive glass (Starfire) is more true than acrylic. Acrylic is doomed if scratched on the inside of a live tank because you must buff it out with some polish and you cannot put that chemical into your system, it's also much easier to scratch it. Glass is hardier than acrylic in that respect. Glass has a higher heat capacity than acrylic, so it will conduct heat more readily. This meant you will have great temperature swings, which is something to watch out for.

here is an article at reefkeeping.com:

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-03/dw/index.php

disregard the salt talk, since it doesn't pertain to you, the other stuff is still good info though. :lmao: IMO, since you are starting, as long as you get a good deal - that's the important thing.

"Advantages of a Glass Aquarium:

Glass aquariums cost less than acrylic aquariums. Because glass aquariums are so common and widely available they normally cost much less than their acrylic counterparts. An All Glass Aquarium 40 gallon breeder aquarium has a cost of approximately $80.00(US) whereas the same size aquarium in acrylic has a cost of approximately $250.00(US).

Glass aquariums are available in many common sizes. In almost any local fish store or pet shop you will find a very large selection of different sized glass aquariums.

Glass aquariums are more resistant to scratches than acrylic. While a glass aquarium can be scratched, it is much harder to scratch a glass aquarium than an acrylic aquarium. You can use a razor blade or abrasive scrapers to clean a glass aquarium whereas the same tools used on an acrylic aquarium would be disastrous.

Disadvantages of a Glass Aquarium:

Glass aquariums are heavy. A 90-gallon glass aquarium has an empty weight of 160 pounds where an acrylic aquarium will weight of approximately 80 pounds. The weights can vary depending upon the thickness of the glass or acrylic used to manufacture the aquarium.

Glass aquariums are more susceptible to leaks and breakage. The seams are more susceptible to leaks because they are bound together with silicone whereas acrylic has a molecular bond, which is said to be five times stronger. An accidental bump with a blunt object or an object thrown into a glass aquarium could be disastrous. Many of the larger, thicker glass aquariums can handle these accidents but can still be broken.

Glass aquariums seams are more visible and susceptible to failure. The seams, where the glass is joined, are more visible and normally have an annoying green tint. Many used aquariums are also susceptible to silicone dry rot. If a used glass aquarium is left empty for a long period of time the silicone which bonds the seams together can dry out and become brittle. Also, if any medication is used, there is a strong chance that the silicone will discolor and take on a blue tint.

Advantages of Acrylic Aquariums:

Acrylic aquariums are available in almost any shape and size. Unlike glass, acrylic aquariums can be made into circular shapes, tube shapes and all of the other common shapes that are not offered in glass.

Acrylic aquariums are visibly clearer than glass aquariums. Glass aquariums, especially thick glass, have a tendency to distort the view of the inhabitants. Most acrylic does not have the common green tint that is normally associated with standard glass aquariums. Acrylic may still have color, and this should be taken in to consideration when purchasing your tank.

Acrylic aquariums are much lighter than glass aquariums. As specified under glass aquarium disadvantages, the weight of an acrylic aquarium is half that of an aquarium made of glass.

Acrylic aquariums are stronger than glass aquariums. Even though an acrylic

aquarium can be broken, they can withstand accidents and mistakes better than glass.

Acrylic aquariums are better insulators than glass. An acrylic aquarium will hold the water temperature easier than a glass aquarium. The ambient room temperature will not have as large of an impact on an acrylic aquarium as it will on a glass aquarium.

Acrylic can be refinished. Unlike glass, if acrylic is scratched, it can be repaired. Kits are available that will allow scratches to be polished out of acrylic. With glass aquariums, once they are scratched, they are scratched for life.

Acrylic aquariums are easier to drill than glass aquariums. While you can purchase drilled glass aquariums, there is always a greater risk of breakage during drilling compared to an acrylic aquarium.

Disadvantages of Acrylic Aquariums:

Acrylic aquariums cost much more than glass aquariums. While the cost of acrylic aquariums have come down one can expect to pay almost double the cost for an acrylic aquarium when compared to glass. Because of manufacturing costs and limited availability the cost is more than glass aquariums.

Acrylic aquariums are less commonly available. Many local fish stores stock only a few sizes of acrylic aquariums, if any. As an example, the LFS near my house has four different sized acrylic aquariums in stock and nearly 30 different sized glass aquariums.

Acrylic aquariums may significantly deform when full of water, causing bowing of the edges and deformation of the sides. Additionally acrylic aquariums need to be supported completely across the bottom; metal stands which support aquariums only on the edges need to have a piece of plywood or other support completely across the bottom of the tank.

Summary

Whether you choose glass or acrylic, as long as you stick to high quality brands with good warranties, you should have many years of enjoyment from your aquarium. I have used glass aquariums since I started in this hobby and have been happy with the results but since I am going to be setting up a 200 plus gallon aquarium, this time, I am going to use acrylic because of the reduced weight and better visual clarity."

 
Girl A, no reason a fluidized bed sand filter wouldn't work. Is that what you're currently running?

As far an automatic water change system, the challenge for this with a marine tank is that you need to have the salt water already mixed before adding it. There's a lot of possibilities involving make up vats, float valves, timers, etc. I don't know if it's worthwhile for a single tank, probably easier to just buy a decent submersible pump to circulate your make up water, drain the tank, and pump from the vat to the tank. If he was talking about tying into the plumbing he probably meant to account for evaporation. Again, it's doable, but probably more hassle than it's worth for a single tank. You also may not want to use tap water if you're doing inverts int the tank, and even in a fish only tank your tap water may have enough phosphates in it to lead to serious algae problems.

Aquatic Ecosystems (aquaticeco.com) has lots of oddball equipment for building systems like this. Worth a look if you're doing any plumbing for the system. A lot of my tanks are empty right now because I'd like to get them on an automatic water change system before getting too involved in the hobby again.

TLEF316, you're going to pay a lot more for acrylic, and I'm not sure there's much benefit in the size range that your looking at. A 55 isn't that big, and it's pretty easy to move by yourself (before gravel, etc, obviously). By the way, if it's in the budget, you might want to consider a 75 gallon. Same amount of wall space, but 6" wider. I mention this since your talking about doing plants, the great front to back distance allows you to slope the gravel a bit more. 55's being 12" wide do limit some of your aquascaping options.

 
As phthalatemagic mentioned, a quarantine tank is a great idea. Most of my tanks are species tanks, so I rarely have to worry about this, but I'm currently setting up my 200 as a South American community tank and after the initial set up everything will be quarantined. You'll get various opinions on this, but I like to quarantine for at least 14 days. A small (10 or 20 gallon) tank, bare bottom, air driven sponge filter and small heater is all you really need. You'll need to keep a couple of fish in the tank to keep it cycled, or keep the filter in your main tank (probably not aesthetically pleasing enough for most display tanks). Alternatively, you could put a small extra power filter on your 55 and move it to the quarantine tank when you need it, just make sure you disinfect the filter before returning it to the main tank.
Yeah, perfect info here. One thing I'd add is if you suspect the fish to have a stressed induce illness (like ich) then putting a few pieces of PVC in there so the fish can hide would help it feel better. A total open tank will make the fish feel exposed and cause it to feel more stress.Thanks for the clarification on the cycling stuff for fresh water. I've never done it, so I just don't know the specifics. :goodposting:
 
I have acrylic everything. I customize everything myself though. You cannot customize glass as easy. I think acrylic is actually a bit cheaper in the mid-sizes (40-200 gallons) and glass is cheaper on the outliers. Heck - my QT tank (20 gallons) is just plastic. :) It was really cheap! :goodposting:

The cheap, regular glass has a green tint to it is the color is not as true as acrylic. The expensive glass (Starfire) is more true than acrylic. Acrylic is doomed if scratched on the inside of a live tank because you must buff it out with some polish and you cannot put that chemical into your system, it's also much easier to scratch it. Glass is hardier than acrylic in that respect. Glass has a higher heat capacity than acrylic, so it will conduct heat more readily. This meant you will have great temperature swings, which is something to watch out for.

here is an article at reefkeeping.com:

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-03/dw/index.php

disregard the salt talk, since it doesn't pertain to you, the other stuff is still good info though. :) IMO, since you are starting, as long as you get a good deal - that's the important thing.

"Advantages of a Glass Aquarium:

Glass aquariums cost less than acrylic aquariums. Because glass aquariums are so common and widely available they normally cost much less than their acrylic counterparts. An All Glass Aquarium 40 gallon breeder aquarium has a cost of approximately $80.00(US) whereas the same size aquarium in acrylic has a cost of approximately $250.00(US).

Glass aquariums are available in many common sizes. In almost any local fish store or pet shop you will find a very large selection of different sized glass aquariums.

Glass aquariums are more resistant to scratches than acrylic. While a glass aquarium can be scratched, it is much harder to scratch a glass aquarium than an acrylic aquarium. You can use a razor blade or abrasive scrapers to clean a glass aquarium whereas the same tools used on an acrylic aquarium would be disastrous.

Disadvantages of a Glass Aquarium:

Glass aquariums are heavy. A 90-gallon glass aquarium has an empty weight of 160 pounds where an acrylic aquarium will weight of approximately 80 pounds. The weights can vary depending upon the thickness of the glass or acrylic used to manufacture the aquarium.

Glass aquariums are more susceptible to leaks and breakage. The seams are more susceptible to leaks because they are bound together with silicone whereas acrylic has a molecular bond, which is said to be five times stronger. An accidental bump with a blunt object or an object thrown into a glass aquarium could be disastrous. Many of the larger, thicker glass aquariums can handle these accidents but can still be broken.

Glass aquariums seams are more visible and susceptible to failure. The seams, where the glass is joined, are more visible and normally have an annoying green tint. Many used aquariums are also susceptible to silicone dry rot. If a used glass aquarium is left empty for a long period of time the silicone which bonds the seams together can dry out and become brittle. Also, if any medication is used, there is a strong chance that the silicone will discolor and take on a blue tint.

Advantages of Acrylic Aquariums:

Acrylic aquariums are available in almost any shape and size. Unlike glass, acrylic aquariums can be made into circular shapes, tube shapes and all of the other common shapes that are not offered in glass.

Acrylic aquariums are visibly clearer than glass aquariums. Glass aquariums, especially thick glass, have a tendency to distort the view of the inhabitants. Most acrylic does not have the common green tint that is normally associated with standard glass aquariums. Acrylic may still have color, and this should be taken in to consideration when purchasing your tank.

Acrylic aquariums are much lighter than glass aquariums. As specified under glass aquarium disadvantages, the weight of an acrylic aquarium is half that of an aquarium made of glass.

Acrylic aquariums are stronger than glass aquariums. Even though an acrylic

aquarium can be broken, they can withstand accidents and mistakes better than glass.

Acrylic aquariums are better insulators than glass. An acrylic aquarium will hold the water temperature easier than a glass aquarium. The ambient room temperature will not have as large of an impact on an acrylic aquarium as it will on a glass aquarium.

Acrylic can be refinished. Unlike glass, if acrylic is scratched, it can be repaired. Kits are available that will allow scratches to be polished out of acrylic. With glass aquariums, once they are scratched, they are scratched for life.

Acrylic aquariums are easier to drill than glass aquariums. While you can purchase drilled glass aquariums, there is always a greater risk of breakage during drilling compared to an acrylic aquarium.

Disadvantages of Acrylic Aquariums:

Acrylic aquariums cost much more than glass aquariums. While the cost of acrylic aquariums have come down one can expect to pay almost double the cost for an acrylic aquarium when compared to glass. Because of manufacturing costs and limited availability the cost is more than glass aquariums.

Acrylic aquariums are less commonly available. Many local fish stores stock only a few sizes of acrylic aquariums, if any. As an example, the LFS near my house has four different sized acrylic aquariums in stock and nearly 30 different sized glass aquariums.

Acrylic aquariums may significantly deform when full of water, causing bowing of the edges and deformation of the sides. Additionally acrylic aquariums need to be supported completely across the bottom; metal stands which support aquariums only on the edges need to have a piece of plywood or other support completely across the bottom of the tank.

Summary

Whether you choose glass or acrylic, as long as you stick to high quality brands with good warranties, you should have many years of enjoyment from your aquarium. I have used glass aquariums since I started in this hobby and have been happy with the results but since I am going to be setting up a 200 plus gallon aquarium, this time, I am going to use acrylic because of the reduced weight and better visual clarity."
I have a 130 gallon glass breeder tank. I have had someone tell me I could use it for saltwater, but they would not recommend it. What do you think? Is there any reason why I should not convert the tank I have now?
 
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I have a 130 gallon glass breeder tank. I have had someone tell me I could use it for saltwater, but they would not recommend it. What do you think? Is there any reason why I should not converst the tank I have now?
A former breeder for fresh water? If this is the case, I'm assuming this person told you that because there are fresh water chemical treatments that are lethal to saltwater fauna that can leech into/back out of glass and make the tank un-usable for salt. That being said, if you have owned the tank for its lifetime and know what chemicals you put into the tank, I can let you know if any are dangerous to marine fauna. Fish tend to be tougher than inverts/corals and such, so even if you used some treatments that aren't kosher, it may be OK for a fish only tank.Also, this person may have just assumed you didn't want to deal with an overflow box since it's not likely your tank is drilled for internal overflow due to it being for fresh, but having an overflow box is not a big deal at all.Those are the only two speedbumps I can imagine.
 
thanks for all the advice guys. Im planning on pricing tanks tomorrow. Ill probably look at a small local fish place as well as one of the big chain stores. (im defintely planning on sticking with the local place when it comes to actually buying fish) I worked at a petco, so i know how it works around there. )

I think getting an accurate idea of the price will help me make the final determination about just how big i want to go. As far as the 75 gallon goes, ill definetly look into it. From what ive read, bigger is better in terms of water stability, decoration and stocking options. The downside being increased filtration needs and cost.

Im planning on keeping whatever i get on the dresser in my room. Its huge and sturdy and i wouldnt have to worry about any kind of water damage. Ill probably be moving within the next 6-12 months, so ill consider getting an actual stand then.

 
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thanks for all the advice guys. Im planning on pricing tanks tomorrow. Ill probably look at a small local fish place as well as one of the big chain stores.
Good luck! Remember, local fish stores may be a bit more expensive, but you get expertise and service along with the products you purchase. :popcorn:
 
thanks for all the advice guys. Im planning on pricing tanks tomorrow. Ill probably look at a small local fish place as well as one of the big chain stores.
Good luck! Remember, local fish stores may be a bit more expensive, but you get expertise and service along with the products you purchase. :popcorn:
yeah, i figured that. I have no problem paying a little bit more for fish if it means they are a bit healthier.
 
Guapote, is that a Jaguar Guapote in your avatar? And is a Guapote a member of the Managuense (sp?) family or what? What's the deal?
Similar, but not a Jaguar. It's a Haitian cichlid (Nandopsis haitiensis), same genus as the jaguar (Nandopsis managuese), unless the taxonomy has changed in recently. New world cichlid taxonomy is always changing, but Nandopsis seems to be pretty stable. The Haitians are another big, nasty, personable cichlid. They're an IUCN Red List species, meaning they're in pretty bad shape in their native habitat. I've got a couple of small ones, hopefully get them spawning down the road and help keep them around in the hobby. One of the few big fish that I have.
 
I have a 130 gallon glass breeder tank. I have had someone tell me I could use it for saltwater, but they would not recommend it. What do you think? Is there any reason why I should not converst the tank I have now?
A former breeder for fresh water? If this is the case, I'm assuming this person told you that because there are fresh water chemical treatments that are lethal to saltwater fauna that can leech into/back out of glass and make the tank un-usable for salt. That being said, if you have owned the tank for its lifetime and know what chemicals you put into the tank, I can let you know if any are dangerous to marine fauna. Fish tend to be tougher than inverts/corals and such, so even if you used some treatments that aren't kosher, it may be OK for a fish only tank.Also, this person may have just assumed you didn't want to deal with an overflow box since it's not likely your tank is drilled for internal overflow due to it being for fresh, but having an overflow box is not a big deal at all.Those are the only two speedbumps I can imagine.
Ammonia Chloramine EliminatorNox-IchpH Decreaser & IncreaserSmall Fish SaverGravel WashInsto ChlorCycle Biological Aquarium SupplementStart rightAlgae Destroyer These are all the different chemicals I have used in the tank. How do I remember this? I have an aquarium tool box. :grin: I like to keep track of everything. Just in cases like these.
 
Guapote, is that a Jaguar Guapote in your avatar? And is a Guapote a member of the Managuense (sp?) family or what? What's the deal?
Similar, but not a Jaguar. It's a Haitian cichlid (Nandopsis haitiensis), same genus as the jaguar (Nandopsis managuese), unless the taxonomy has changed in recently. New world cichlid taxonomy is always changing, but Nandopsis seems to be pretty stable. The Haitians are another big, nasty, personable cichlid. They're an IUCN Red List species, meaning they're in pretty bad shape in their native habitat. I've got a couple of small ones, hopefully get them spawning down the road and help keep them around in the hobby. One of the few big fish that I have.
:wall:
 
I have a 130 gallon glass breeder tank. I have had someone tell me I could use it for saltwater, but they would not recommend it. What do you think? Is there any reason why I should not converst the tank I have now?
A former breeder for fresh water? If this is the case, I'm assuming this person told you that because there are fresh water chemical treatments that are lethal to saltwater fauna that can leech into/back out of glass and make the tank un-usable for salt. That being said, if you have owned the tank for its lifetime and know what chemicals you put into the tank, I can let you know if any are dangerous to marine fauna. Fish tend to be tougher than inverts/corals and such, so even if you used some treatments that aren't kosher, it may be OK for a fish only tank.Also, this person may have just assumed you didn't want to deal with an overflow box since it's not likely your tank is drilled for internal overflow due to it being for fresh, but having an overflow box is not a big deal at all.Those are the only two speedbumps I can imagine.
Ammonia Chloramine EliminatorNox-IchpH Decreaser & IncreaserSmall Fish SaverGravel WashInsto ChlorCycle Biological Aquarium SupplementStart rightAlgae Destroyer These are all the different chemicals I have used in the tank. How do I remember this? I have an aquarium tool box. :grin: I like to keep track of everything. Just in cases like these.
I think it may be easier for me to look up what commonly used FW chemicals are dangerous for you to use in salt then compare the labels on your bottles. I used to own a tackle box with a bunch of chemicals and stuff in it too! :wall: Now I got so lazy, I just bought a table and have everything just laying out.
 
I have a 130 gallon glass breeder tank. I have had someone tell me I could use it for saltwater, but they would not recommend it. What do you think? Is there any reason why I should not converst the tank I have now?
A former breeder for fresh water? If this is the case, I'm assuming this person told you that because there are fresh water chemical treatments that are lethal to saltwater fauna that can leech into/back out of glass and make the tank un-usable for salt. That being said, if you have owned the tank for its lifetime and know what chemicals you put into the tank, I can let you know if any are dangerous to marine fauna. Fish tend to be tougher than inverts/corals and such, so even if you used some treatments that aren't kosher, it may be OK for a fish only tank.Also, this person may have just assumed you didn't want to deal with an overflow box since it's not likely your tank is drilled for internal overflow due to it being for fresh, but having an overflow box is not a big deal at all.

Those are the only two speedbumps I can imagine.
Ammonia Chloramine EliminatorNox-Ich

pH Decreaser & Increaser

Small Fish Saver

Gravel Wash

Insto Chlor

Cycle Biological Aquarium Supplement

Start right

Algae Destroyer

These are all the different chemicals I have used in the tank. How do I remember this? I have an aquarium tool box. :grin: I like to keep track of everything. Just in cases like these.
I think it may be easier for me to look up what commonly used FW chemicals are dangerous for you to use in salt then compare the labels on your bottles. I used to own a tackle box with a bunch of chemicals and stuff in it too! :yes: Now I got so lazy, I just bought a table and have everything just laying out.
There's a better name for my box... :goodposting:
 

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