msommer
Footballguy
The NFL appointed doctors that are/have been monitoring him during his suspension.I'm not sure I understand. What doctors?
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Ahmad Brooks MLB? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter bcr8f
- Start date
bcr8f
Footballguy
And didn't they say they wanted to monitor him a little longer?The NFL appointed doctors that are/have been monitoring him during his suspension.I'm not sure I understand. What doctors?
redman
Footballguy
I guess I missed that. What are they monitoring him for, exactly?The NFL appointed doctors that are/have been monitoring him during his suspension.I'm not sure I understand. What doctors?
Jene Bramel
Footballguy
For now, it looks like Brooks may not play in the nickel. If the reports that he is more comfortable this off-season translate to the field, I'll be more inclined to believe we'll see the Brooks from the TB/CAR games than the guy who looked lost after those two games.Pos and Willis both have 100 solo potential. Brooks may, but only if he plays every down. He's 32 for me, in a sizable tier of LB2-3 caliber players; he moves into the high 20s (and the big LB1-2 tier) if he's an every down player.
msommer
Footballguy
Whether he is drinking, and whether he is apt to start drinking again.I guess I missed that. What are they monitoring him for, exactly?The NFL appointed doctors that are/have been monitoring him during his suspension.I'm not sure I understand. What doctors?
redman
Footballguy
Ok, so if they're monitoring him for drinking and they've said to the league that he's not likely to drink again such that he's a good candidate for reinstatement. So now you've challenged me with that information for the purposes of saying that Thurman is not "an incorrigible f-up"? I suppose if his only problem was drinking that would be a valid argument, but haven't there been other things?Whether he is drinking, and whether he is apt to start drinking again.I guess I missed that. What are they monitoring him for, exactly?The NFL appointed doctors that are/have been monitoring him during his suspension.I'm not sure I understand. What doctors?
bcr8f
Footballguy
He's a stud? So far what he is is a 2nd year player who had 2 good games and looked lost in sevaral others. Word is he is working hard to become better and stay cean.Kind of early though isn't it? In TC if he is named the starter and looks like a stud the staff should upgrade him accordingly I would say. There are a lot of lineup quesions for several teams right now.
msommer
Footballguy
Honestly I can't recall anything else than drinking related stupidityOk, so if they're monitoring him for drinking and they've said to the league that he's not likely to drink again such that he's a good candidate for reinstatement. So now you've challenged me with that information for the purposes of saying that Thurman is not "an incorrigible f-up"? I suppose if his only problem was drinking that would be a valid argument, but haven't there been other things?Whether he is drinking, and whether he is apt to start drinking again.I guess I missed that. What are they monitoring him for, exactly?The NFL appointed doctors that are/have been monitoring him during his suspension.I'm not sure I understand. What doctors?
Bizkiteer
Footballguy
LOFL! Where is this proof that he bought his way out of trouble the first time? Since he imply that it's happened more than once, prove where it happend again?No but he may push someone off a bridge. We're not jurors but do know if they don't learn from thei own history they won't change. Odell can't keep buying his way out of trouble.If I were the NFL I would investigate and find out if the allegations are true.These are not the same in any way shape or form. Your example has us judging a second individual that we know nothing about other than his physical appearance based on his similarity to a completely different person who looks similar. In this case you have a single individual who has a rap sheet a mile long and it is natural that people aren't going to give them the benefit of the doubt like someone who's being accused of a first offense. Jumping to a conclusion on something like this on an internet message board is a far cry from how one of us might perform as a juror. It is a lot different when we are just trying to speculate on how these charges could affect our fantasy or NFL teams than it is sitting in a jury box with someone's future in your hands. Give people a break with this self-righteous BS, I seriously doubt Odell is going to jump off a bridge because some dorks on a message board think he's guilty.LOL, so you automatically side with guys who claim that he did something as serious as pointing a gun at them (or in their mouth), but fail to contact the Police? LMAO, who's naive here now? I didn't say he was clean or model citizen, just that so many passed judgement with ABSOLUTELY KNOWING COMPLETELY NONE OF THE FACTS of what really happened other than reading a one sided blurb.Yes, Odell's done some bad things in the past. Yes, percentages lean towards committing further crimes or getting into trouble. I'll point out that it's a percentage because not everyone keeps repeating the same type behavior. Simply put, not ALL of people who commited a crime or get in trouble keep repeatting!!! Sheeesh, I saw a guy on the news a day ago that committed a crime and he had dreadlocks. That means the next guy I see with dreadlocks must be criminal too, huh?Your naivete is breathtaking to behold. Thurman's been in trouble with the law since before he hit puberty. He was kicked off Georgia's football team. Twice. He was nailed by the league's substance abuse police. Thrice. (hence the current suspension) With his career in jeopardy, this paragon of virtue decided to drive drunk (over twice the legal limit) with a certain Chris Henry riding shotgun. He's had chances and chances over and over and over again, and blown them all. Excuse me if I regard this latest incident with a degree of cynicism. He's earned it. I have a feeling the guys cutting million dollar checks might balk at signing another one for him as well. I also doubt their standard will be "innocent until proven guilty".How fast some of you are to judge. I'm just glad you're not sitting on any jury.
Taking the incident with cynicism is understandable, but many just passed judgement. There is a difference and that's the point!
Toot tooooooot, all aboard...jump on the bandwagon...one way ticket to "Those who want to judge without any facts!"Oh and yeah, the NFL should go ask those upstanding guys why they never reported a crime to the Police. I'm sure we'd all like to know why upstanding gentlemen would refrain from going to the authorities when something so worng has been done to them. Of course, if the authorities don't see any reason or proof that any worng doing has taken place, then by all means don't trust that do your own investigation...even though you're just a FOOTBALL league. Yeah, that's it...that's the ticket...start up their own NFLBI.
bcr8f
Footballguy
They did report it the next day. If a gun was stuck in their mouth that may had something to do with it. A lot of people don't report crimes right away. That doesn't mean nothing happened. It also doesn't mean anything did either. I like how you started out demanding proof and then made statements that had no proof attached to them. Be consistent. I'd like to see the NFL follow up and try to fiind out what really happened.Oh and yeah, the NFL should go ask those upstanding guys why they never reported a crime to the Police. I'm sure we'd all like to know why upstanding gentlemen would refrain from going to the authorities when something so worng has been done to them. Of course, if the authorities don't see any reason or proof that any worng doing has taken place, then by all means don't trust that do your own investigation...even though you're just a FOOTBALL league. Yeah, that's it...that's the ticket...start up their own NFLBI.
Bizkiteer
Footballguy
I have done nothing of the sort. I said others jumped to conclusions without any facts. Where did I demand proof other than when outlandish statements were made about he's paying off people or buying his way out of trouble? Most importantly, what statements are you talking about that I made that have "no proof?" LOL, put that bait on another hook because no fishing allowed here.They did report it the next day. If a gun was stuck in their mouth that may had something to do with it. A lot of people don't report crimes right away. That doesn't mean nothing happened. It also doesn't mean anything did either. I like how you started out demanding proof and then made statements that had no proof attached to them. Be consistent.Oh and yeah, the NFL should go ask those upstanding guys why they never reported a crime to the Police. I'm sure we'd all like to know why upstanding gentlemen would refrain from going to the authorities when something so worng has been done to them. Of course, if the authorities don't see any reason or proof that any worng doing has taken place, then by all means don't trust that do your own investigation...even though you're just a FOOTBALL league. Yeah, that's it...that's the ticket...start up their own NFLBI.
I'd like to see the NFL follow up and try to fiind out what really happened.
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Renegades of Funk
Footballguy
Just the fact that Thurman was at a party at 3:00 AM has to set great with Marvin, let alone all the attention this story got. Thurman is a heck of a football player, but this is crazy. There is no way in hell you would find me at at a party at 3:00 AM if I had millions on the line and all I had to do was stay out of trouble.
ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
msommer
Footballguy
Absolutely, but it is hardly a slam dunk either way.
ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
True. It will be interesting to see. Goodell seems to be a guy that is very big on players showing they are changing and that they realize how important it is to change from their previous poor behavior. Tank Johnson was very contrite and I think the consensus was that he got off easier than people thought he would because of that. I'm not sure that, fair or not, being out at a party at 3am is showing that you realize that you have a problem and are working on fixing it. Just my opinion though, obviously.Absolutely, but it is hardly a slam dunk either way.
One of the rumors posted online had Odell not being at the party, just showing up at 3am to act as a driver for his friends/brother who were there. I'd say that's being fairly responsible, and is a situation where his presence could be understood, but again, Internet Rumor alert and no one really knows what happened but those that were there.
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Jene Bramel
Footballguy
Reading between the lines of this quote embedded in yet another Brooks article on bengals.com, Brooks may keep Caleb Miller off the field in the nickel after all.Full article at bengals.com
All that combined to bench him late last season, but that changed when Brooks sat down with defensive coordinator Chuck Bresnahan upon his return this past March in the wake of the release of veteran linebacker Brian Simmons.
“What I took to heart most is when Coach B told me that I was going to play and that I better get in shape and know what I’m doing because I wasn’t coming off the field,” Brooks says. “When you hear that, well, now you know they want you to play.”
bcr8f
Footballguy
When the Bengals LB mess gets sorted out and he's a 3 down player I'm sure he'll move up. It's early. A lot of players will move in the next 2 months.
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Jene Bramel
Footballguy
Bloom and I both agree with this and posted as much in a thread a few weeks ago. We both saw him as a mid first-mid second round pick depending on how well he played after his so-so junior year.That doesn't mean he's a clearly better option in IDP leagues. He'll be moving up my updating rankings on Monday. I'm still not convinced he has the 95 plus solo tackle potential that Pos and Willis have for 2007 -- see Thurman's numbers as a rookie and the collective MLB numbers from last year -- but I agree he's going to be undervalued even when word gets out that he may be an every down player.NorrisB said:
msommer
Footballguy
According to Wikipedia Odell has indeed applied for reinstatement. Another message board had a similar blurb to this effect credited to bengals.com but without link. I have been unable to verify any of this
link to wiki (yes I know it is open source)
link to wiki (yes I know it is open source)
Can any Bengals homer confirm Odell has indeed applied for reinstatement?
Bizkiteer
Footballguy
It was mentioned on sirius NFL radio a week ago that he had indeed applied for reinstatement. Matter of fact, it was Solomon Wilcox (sp?).
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bcr8f
Footballguy
Bengals.com mentioned it too earlier."Thurman, suspended a year for repeated violations of the NFL’s substance abuse policy, is eligible to return to the club July 11.
Word is that Thurman has already applied for reinstatement and that he has been recommended for reinstatement by those in charge of the NFL’s rehab program, but he must remain clean until July 11."
http://www.bengals.com/news/news.asp?story_id=6049
msommer
Footballguy
He does not have zero chance of landing a starting job, with the Bengals or elsewhere
Bizkiteer
Footballguy
They mentioned during that radio report that if Odell doesn't win the MLB spot, he'll play WLB. Wilcox said he expected him to be just as much of a force at the WLB spot as he was before and that he and Brooks would make a GREAT tandum for yrs to come for the Bengals. He said SPEED kills and those two will provide plenty of sideline to sideline coverage.
Jene Bramel
Footballguy
lions327
Footballguy
This should be interesting. I have to think if Thurman gets a real chance to play that his talent will get on the field. The question is where will he play. Is he capable of playing at WLB at all?Jene Bramel said:
What do the Bengal homers think will happen assuming Thurman has a chance to compete for a starting job...I think if this is the case, he will be on the field.
Jene Bramel
Footballguy
Most Bengal insiders (Hobson, bengals.com and Curnutte, Enquirer.com) believe Thurman will be at the bottom of the depth chart at WLB entering camp. The prevailing opinion is that Brooks has done enough this offseason to have taken ownership of the MLB job.If in game shape and if he can prove himself a reliable teammate, Thurman should play. He provided an identity to a defense that hadn't had one since Takeo Spikes. There's no reason he couldn't be successful as a WLB. He has excellent quickness and could be a menace in pursuit, coverage and pass rush. He was always around the ball as a rookie, busting the generally accepted stereotype that first year defenders aren't ready to make big plays yet with a couple sacks, five forced fumbles and five interceptions. While I certainly wouldn't go so far as to compare him to Keith Bulluck, that's the kind of WLB Thurman could be. Hartwell is a nice player when fully healthy, but the Thurman of 2005 could be a stud every down player on the weak side.This should be interesting. I have to think if Thurman gets a real chance to play that his talent will get on the field. The question is where will he play. Is he capable of playing at WLB at all?Jene Bramel said:
What do the Bengal homers think will happen assuming Thurman has a chance to compete for a starting job...I think if this is the case, he will be on the field.
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lions327
Footballguy
Good info, thanks. The Bengals defense sure would be a lot better if they have the 2005 Thurman on the field. I think early on it will be tough since he missed an entire season. But I can't imagine Hartwell or any of their other LB's keeping Thurman off the field assuming he is in game shape. But that could take some time with the missed year.
Jestefarean
Footballguy
Really interesting situation and makes me wonder if they won't trade someone. They went out and paid Hartwell, and I think suggested he would start...so he has to play. If Thurman gets himself together he seems likely to play. Obviousley Brooks will play. Landon Johnson has been solid, if unspectacular...and is a good WLB/Nickel. Caleb Miller showed he could play last year, and so did Jeanty.
As a recovering Bengals LB IDP owner I think I am going to sign up for a 13 step program that will guide me away from all of them..this stinks of a rotation, which (like last year) will only frustrate me.
As a recovering Bengals LB IDP owner I think I am going to sign up for a 13 step program that will guide me away from all of them..this stinks of a rotation, which (like last year) will only frustrate me.
lions327
Footballguy
It's only bad if you overpay. The situation is so cloudy that you may get value in there somewhere later on.Really interesting situation and makes me wonder if they won't trade someone. They went out and paid Hartwell, and I think suggested he would start...so he has to play. If Thurman gets himself together he seems likely to play. Obviousley Brooks will play. Landon Johnson has been solid, if unspectacular...and is a good WLB/Nickel. Caleb Miller showed he could play last year, and so did Jeanty.As a recovering Bengals LB IDP owner I think I am going to sign up for a 13 step program that will guide me away from all of them..this stinks of a rotation, which (like last year) will only frustrate me.
massraider
Footballguy
In keeping with that:Bengals | Thurman likely to play outsideThu, 12 Jul 2007 10:21:31 -0700Mark Curnutte, of the Cincinnati Enquirer, reports Cincinnati Bengals LB Odell Thurman will likely play at outside linebacker this season if he is reinstated. Thurman will probably play weakside linebacker because of his speed. .............................................................................................................................................................Odell is a guy I'd like to grab super late. Low risk-high reward type. If he's competing with Hartwell at WLB, I think that most fans would bet on Hartwell. I wouldn't.It's only bad if you overpay. The situation is so cloudy that you may get value in there somewhere later on.Really interesting situation and makes me wonder if they won't trade someone. They went out and paid Hartwell, and I think suggested he would start...so he has to play. If Thurman gets himself together he seems likely to play. Obviousley Brooks will play. Landon Johnson has been solid, if unspectacular...and is a good WLB/Nickel. Caleb Miller showed he could play last year, and so did Jeanty.As a recovering Bengals LB IDP owner I think I am going to sign up for a 13 step program that will guide me away from all of them..this stinks of a rotation, which (like last year) will only frustrate me.
Jestefarean
Footballguy
I would agree with the low risk thing. The frustration I experienced last year was regarding simply not knowing. I owned Landon Johnson, who was consistently listed as the starting WLB. One week he would do amazing, the next he would play sparesly and Caleb or Jeanty would have a big week and seem to be playing nickel...so I bench Landon and he'd have another big week. If the Bengals pick 3 it's a fine risk. However, if they pick 6 and play any amount of situational ball it will only make me frustrated.
One question. Last year Brooks played some SLB. Is there any chance they decide to use athletism on the outside with Brooks and someone (Odell/Landon/whomever) and play Hartwell at MLB?
One question. Last year Brooks played some SLB. Is there any chance they decide to use athletism on the outside with Brooks and someone (Odell/Landon/whomever) and play Hartwell at MLB?
Jene Bramel
Footballguy
Anything is possible.I shouldn't speculate, but I think Brooks is pretty firmly entrenched in the middle now and the only question left is what will happen at SLB when Odell is deemed game ready to take over at WLB.
An uneducated hunch, but I have a hard time thinking Brooks is set in the middle. He seems, physically, like a guy who could be used on the outside, and make up for the absence of Pollard.
Think OT may be a better bet in the MLB slot than anyone, and actually is the most experienced between he and Brooks.
Think OT may be a better bet in the MLB slot than anyone, and actually is the most experienced between he and Brooks.
Bizkiteer
Footballguy
I'd point out that Odell was a BEAST when he played the MLB spot from them. I think if he can play like that, then maybe Brooks moves to the outside. It's the trusting Odell off the field they have issue with and they have Brooks on roster now that can move IF he slips. Many seem to forget that Cincy never questioned Odell's ability when he was on the field
bcr8f
Footballguy
From the Enquirer today-ON THE WAY UPAhmad Brooks is one of the most-watched players in camp. The Bengals are counting on him not only to win the middle linebacker job but to give the defense some personality as well. Brooks, a natural 260 pounds, flashed his big-play ability Saturday. Brooks shot the correct gap on a blitz and would have been credited with a sack. On another play in 11-on-11 team drills, he beat a blocker to a hole and blew up a sweep.ON THE WAY DOWNThe Bengals have nothing to show - at least for the first eight games of 2007 - for the first day of the 2005 draft. Linebacker David Pollack (Round 1) is out for the season as he continues to rehab from a fractured vertebra. Linebacker Odell Thurman (Round 2) remains suspended for the season. Wide receiver Chris Henry (Round 3) is suspended for the first eight games.
lawrence phillips
Footballguy
I really like Brooks and hope the buzz on him can remain quiet. Assuming he wins the job, I think he can easily come up with the combined numbers that Simmons and Caleb Miller produced at MLB for the Bengals last year. 99 solos, 1 sack, 2 INT, 2 FF, 2 FR, 7 PD.
Renegades of Funk
Footballguy
Recent comments (8/1) by Marvin on Brooks:
Q: What do you see in Ahmad Brooks?
ML: He is a guy that now understand how he is supposed to line up, and where everybody is supposed to be around him. Last year he was trying to get himself lined up, for the most part. Now he is able to put other people in position, and that is a good thing. He is able to get us correct if there are adjustments that need to be made. I hear him making those adjustments from the sideline. I think those are things that a year ago, he would have to get on the second time around. Right now, he's making those adjustments.
Physically, they don't put guys together like him -- 270 pounds to be that fast. He loves football. I see a difference in him and his preparation for special teams. Today with kickoffs, it's just totally different from a year ago. Here he is starting as a linebacker on the football team, but he is working on the kickoff team as though he is still trying to earn a job, doing it like he did last year. Last year we were telling him to go and use that speed, and now he has it and is playing with it all the time. Physically when we played live the other day, you could feel his presence. You just have to keep going.
Q: How is Brooks handling his responsibilities in the huddle?
ML: It has improved. We didn't put that on him last year, and this year he's doing great with it.
Sounds pretty positive so far.
Q: What do you see in Ahmad Brooks?
ML: He is a guy that now understand how he is supposed to line up, and where everybody is supposed to be around him. Last year he was trying to get himself lined up, for the most part. Now he is able to put other people in position, and that is a good thing. He is able to get us correct if there are adjustments that need to be made. I hear him making those adjustments from the sideline. I think those are things that a year ago, he would have to get on the second time around. Right now, he's making those adjustments.
Physically, they don't put guys together like him -- 270 pounds to be that fast. He loves football. I see a difference in him and his preparation for special teams. Today with kickoffs, it's just totally different from a year ago. Here he is starting as a linebacker on the football team, but he is working on the kickoff team as though he is still trying to earn a job, doing it like he did last year. Last year we were telling him to go and use that speed, and now he has it and is playing with it all the time. Physically when we played live the other day, you could feel his presence. You just have to keep going.
Q: How is Brooks handling his responsibilities in the huddle?
ML: It has improved. We didn't put that on him last year, and this year he's doing great with it.
Sounds pretty positive so far.
Jene Bramel
Footballguy
Interesting opinion for sure and there has to be something behind Hartwell's move to MLB. Or maybe not -- absolutely nothing that came out of Bengal OTAs has been correct. Brooks has certainly come off the field in the nickel package, Geathers is playing every down and Hartwell began camp as the second team MLB.
FWIW, Ludwig has a habit of throwing things like this out. He was the guy that pushed the "Irons will take half the carries from Rudi" this year bit. There've been many more. Not to say this won't be one of the few that pans out, because Marvin has shown a tendency to go with the guy who handles his assignments the best, but be careful about accepting anything that's projected about the Bengals from Ludwig, or any one else for that matter, given recent history.
FWIW, Ludwig has a habit of throwing things like this out. He was the guy that pushed the "Irons will take half the carries from Rudi" this year bit. There've been many more. Not to say this won't be one of the few that pans out, because Marvin has shown a tendency to go with the guy who handles his assignments the best, but be careful about accepting anything that's projected about the Bengals from Ludwig, or any one else for that matter, given recent history.
Jene Bramel
Footballguy
His and the comments of the coaching staff suggested that before camp. He has played only sparingly in the nickel package thus far in the preseason and only with the second and third teams. The pass rushing DE business is a non-issue and silly to me. If you're trying to coach this kid up as an all-around MLB, giving him yet another new responsibility isn't very bright.nortobc said:
