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Moe Green

Philip Rivers Is Terrible

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He was razor sharp last night. But then again so was the protection. The line and the blitz pickups were outstanding.

The Chargers may be a force in this year's playoffs. Maybe this will be the year they finally do something in the playoffs instead

of collapsing and choking like they've done all decade.

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He was razor sharp last night. But then again so was the protection. The line and the blitz pickups were outstanding. The Chargers may be a force in this year's playoffs. Maybe this will be the year they finally do something in the playoffs insteadof collapsing and choking like they've done all decade.

choking? They lost to the 16-0 pats team in 2007 and last year lost to the eventual champ steelers. both on the road, One game rivers played on a torn ACL. They beat the colts twice in those last 2 playoffs years as well. The 2006 season the 14-2 team, that was a choke vs. NEpats. But Since Norv has been HC they have done quite well in the playoffs IMO

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I liked Schottenheimer/Martyball too, so it's not just the running emphasis.It just seems like most games are an exercise in reigning Rivers in to the Chargers' detriment.

:thumbup: Schottenheimer treated Rivers like he was Trent Dilfer. But you preferred that to the way Norv holds him back?

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17 wins 0 losses in the month of December as a starter. The 17 December win streak is an NFL record. Pretty cool stat.

It's a record for December, but not for any month. The '45 to '51 Bears won 23 straight November games.
I think I'd rather my team was hot in December than November.

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17 wins 0 losses in the month of December as a starter. The 17 December win streak is an NFL record. Pretty cool stat.

It's a record for December, but not for any month. The '45 to '51 Bears won 23 straight November games.
If we're discussing the individual record rather than the team record, I don't think any individual Bears QB was 18-0 in those Novembers. During those years, they started Sid Luckman, Tom Farris, Johnny Lujack, George Blanda, and Steve Romanik.For the Chargers, it's been all Philip Rivers. The last December loss by the Chargers was Drew Brees's final game.

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I think the infuriating thing for me is the Turner offense. I never liked Turner's style of play and I still don't. I liked Schottenheimer/Martyball too, so it's not just the running emphasis. I just find the playcalling baffling.Last night vs TEN was a perfect example, Rivers should have had more TD's. Now they did win the game, by a lot, but that was that game. It just seems like most games are an exercise in reigning Rivers in to the Chargers' detriment. There also seems to be a consistent lack of ability by the front office to get better WR's beyond Vince Jackson (or use them when they do have them like Chris Chambers).

This is horrible posting. Possibly :bs: . They scored 42 points on offense, did basically whatever they wanted, scored from all over the field. There were several big plays that almost happened downfield to the WR's, and either penalties or the throws being slightly off made them miss. Norv's playcalling has been pretty close to brilliant for the last few games. When guys are going into the endzone untouched down around the goalline you know things are working right on offense. As for the receivers, just last night Floyd and Naanee showed that they're more than adequate receivers. I like how you also neglect to mention Gates.
Hey, I post partly because I'm interested in the comments of others. Not just to read myself think aloud.Thanks for the reply.
If a 10 game winning streak is "detrimental" to the Chargers, then I say keep making it hurt.

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I've been saying this for over a year. :rolleyes:

You've also been saying over a year how great Matt Leinart is, and how Vince Young is overrated.
A) Matt Leinart will be great and I'm genuinely stunned at his early season performance, although it's not as bad as some are making out.B) VY will be decent until he can't win with his legs...and then he will suck.
There are some serious gems in here but LHucks sporting the trifecta may be the best.
Seriously has there ever been a guy that is kore consistently wrong about everything he predicts? I don't just mean here on these boards, or even in fantasy football. Just anyone, about anything?
No. And it's not even close.

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Here's an interesting read (posted at PFT) from the Chargers local media:

POSTED 12:58 p.m. EST, November 13, 2007

LACK OF DISCIPLINE IN SAN DIEGO? by Michael David Smith

The story didn't get much attention, but Kevin Acee of the San Diego Union-Tribune reported on Sunday that some Chargers players stayed out past curfew last Friday in Minneapolis, 36 hours before the team turned in its worst performance of the season in a loss to the Vikings.

Jim Trotter of Sports Illustrated reported during an appearance today on ESPN First Take that one of those players was linebacker Shawne Merriman.

According to Acee, the team responded to the curfew violation by not only fining the players involved, but also firing director of security Mike Cash, whose job description includes overseeing the security guards on the players' floor at the team's hotel and ensuring that the players are in on time.

Whether or not there's any link between the players staying out late and their weak performance against the Vikings, this raises the question of whether there's enough discipline on the Chargers.

Marty Schottenheimer, the coach the Chargers fired after last season's 14-2 record and first-round playoff loss, is known for having a good relationship with his players but also for running a tight ship. Norv Turner, the coach brought in to replace Schottenheimer, doesn't have that reputation. Jerry Rice, who played for Turner on the Raiders, once said that Turner "had no control" over the team.

Neither Turner nor General Manager A.J. Smith (who made the decision to fire Cash), would discuss the curfew violations. But if the Turner-coached Chargers don't start playing more like last year's Schottenheimer-coached Chargers, the questions about whether there's enough discipline in San Diego are not going away.

Hmm. From this article on the Chargers' success on the road this season:

Another thing Turner did was become stricter about curfew. Multiple team sources said a number of violations under former head coach Marty Schottenheimer were ignored.

“There were a lot of things I felt I had to tighten up when I got here,” Turner said. “When I looked at thing in terms of discipline and things that had happened, I was surprised at a couple instances. When you have 60 guys you’re going to have some issues but you want to keep them to a minimum.”

Two former Chargers, on the team before and during the Turner regime, said this week that a different attitude on the road was evident after Turner arrived.

Both players asked to remain anonymous but talked of a team maturing and fewer guys going out as often on the road.

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It's fun to go back and read this thread from the beginning.

Around posts #250-#300, a lot of people argued that Rivers lacks the physical tools to be a successful quarterback in the NFL -- saying specifically that his arm is far too weak.

Does anybody still think that?

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It's fun to go back and read this thread from the beginning.Around posts #250-#300, a lot of people argued that Rivers lacks the physical tools to be a successful quarterback in the NFL -- saying specifically that his arm is far too weak.Does anybody still think that?

When Joe Montana is widely considered the greatest QB ever, any "weak arm" argument goes out the window.

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Philip Rivers is a pretty good QB. Easily top 5 right now. His YPA is absurdly good considering the number of attempts he's putting up.

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You need to reread what I posted. I didn't say Rivers was godly. I said Rivers didn't have a meltdown. If John Elway was quarterbacking the Chargers in that game, he'd probably throw 3-4 INTs, trying to force the ball too much, trying to make too much happen, and the final score would have been 50-10. Unlike Elway, Rivers didn't wilt. Rivers is a guy with a tremendous amount of heart. He's going to hold it together and compete all the way.

Yeah, because John Elway never led his team to come-from-behind wins in the 4th quarter, right?

And this reminds me, aren't you a Browns fan? If so, that would explain that post.

I liked Schottenheimer/Martyball too, so it's not just the running emphasis.

It just seems like most games are an exercise in reigning Rivers in to the Chargers' detriment.

:thumbup: Schottenheimer treated Rivers like he was Trent Dilfer. But you preferred that to the way Norv holds him back?
In all fairness, Rivers wasn't the stud three years ago that he is now, and Tomlinson was an absolute beast back then, so it made sense to run the ball more and utilize LT2 as much as possible then.

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I think the infuriating thing for me is the Turner offense. I never liked Turner's style of play and I still don't. I liked Schottenheimer/Martyball too, so it's not just the running emphasis. I just find the playcalling baffling.Last night vs TEN was a perfect example, Rivers should have had more TD's. Now they did win the game, by a lot, but that was that game. It just seems like most games are an exercise in reigning Rivers in to the Chargers' detriment. There also seems to be a consistent lack of ability by the front office to get better WR's beyond Vince Jackson (or use them when they do have them like Chris Chambers).

This is horrible posting. Possibly :thumbup: . They scored 42 points on offense, did basically whatever they wanted, scored from all over the field. There were several big plays that almost happened downfield to the WR's, and either penalties or the throws being slightly off made them miss. Norv's playcalling has been pretty close to brilliant for the last few games. When guys are going into the endzone untouched down around the goalline you know things are working right on offense. As for the receivers, just last night Floyd and Naanee showed that they're more than adequate receivers. I like how you also neglect to mention Gates.
Hey, I post partly because I'm interested in the comments of others. Not just to read myself think aloud.Thanks for the reply.
If a 10 game winning streak is "detrimental" to the Chargers, then I say keep making it hurt.
You're right there. They are winning this year. Winning comes first. I guess when I wrote that I was thinking from a FF perspective, and that's really not to the Chargers' detriment. On the other hand it is just possible that last year's 8-8 team could have been better and even this soon to be 13-3 team could be better. What I should have said was that if the Chargers put the ball in Rivers' hands and got him some better secondary wide receivers he could or would be on the level of a P. Manning or Brees, that's all. If Floyd, Naanee and Byrd are all better than I had assessed them to be, so be it, then I'm wrong on that. Guys like Collie, Garcon, Henderson, Meachem, and Welker are probably no better, just a function of the offenses they play in I guess.But winning is winning and that is all that matters.

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I think the infuriating thing for me is the Turner offense. I never liked Turner's style of play and I still don't. I liked Schottenheimer/Martyball too, so it's not just the running emphasis. I just find the playcalling baffling.Last night vs TEN was a perfect example, Rivers should have had more TD's. Now they did win the game, by a lot, but that was that game. It just seems like most games are an exercise in reigning Rivers in to the Chargers' detriment. There also seems to be a consistent lack of ability by the front office to get better WR's beyond Vince Jackson (or use them when they do have them like Chris Chambers).

This is horrible posting. Possibly :thumbdown: . They scored 42 points on offense, did basically whatever they wanted, scored from all over the field. There were several big plays that almost happened downfield to the WR's, and either penalties or the throws being slightly off made them miss. Norv's playcalling has been pretty close to brilliant for the last few games. When guys are going into the endzone untouched down around the goalline you know things are working right on offense. As for the receivers, just last night Floyd and Naanee showed that they're more than adequate receivers. I like how you also neglect to mention Gates.
Hey, I post partly because I'm interested in the comments of others. Not just to read myself think aloud.Thanks for the reply.
If a 10 game winning streak is "detrimental" to the Chargers, then I say keep making it hurt.
You're right there. They are winning this year. Winning comes first. I guess when I wrote that I was thinking from a FF perspective, and that's really not to the Chargers' detriment. On the other hand it is just possible that last year's 8-8 team could have been better and even this soon to be 13-3 team could be better. What I should have said was that if the Chargers put the ball in Rivers' hands and got him some better secondary wide receivers he could or would be on the level of a P. Manning or Brees, that's all. If Floyd, Naanee and Byrd are all better than I had assessed them to be, so be it, then I'm wrong on that. Guys like Collie, Garcon, Henderson, Meachem, and Welker are probably no better, just a function of the offenses they play in I guess.But winning is winning and that is all that matters.
IMO there are very few better overall receiving corps than the Chargers'. You have to include all the receivers when you think about this, not just the WRs. Gates is one of the best receiving TEs in the league. Tomlinson, Sproles, Tolbert, and even Hester have been good receiving RBs. Jackson has established himself as a strong NFL #1 WR. And IMO Floyd and Naanee are very good as #2/#3 WRs... it's just that with Gates and the strong receiving RBs, they don't get as many looks as some teams' #2/#3 WRs.There is always room for improvement, but I don't think upgrading their WRs is or should be high on the team's priority list.

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In all fairness, Rivers wasn't the stud three years ago that he is now, and Tomlinson was an absolute beast back then, so it made sense to run the ball more and utilize LT2 as much as possible then.

Both points are certainly valid, but we have little idea what Rivers was really capable of considering the way Marty handled him.

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Glad to see Rivers is gaining national recognition this year. He has been an elite QB for the past two years now.

Unfortunately, many people judge QBs on compiled stats rather than rate stats (e.g., QB rating, yards per attempt, TD percentage, interception percentage). Rivers excels at rate stats but his compiled stats have been held down somewhat by low passing attempts. But I wanted to highlight the following:

1. Rivers currently has the 3rd best QB rating of all time, and he is also in the top 10 all time in yards per attempt and interception percentage and is #13 all time in completion percentage.

2. Aside from stats, as a starter, Rivers has compiled a 46-18 (0.719) regular season record, which I believe is second only to Tom Brady's regular season record in NFL history. And he has a solid 3-3 postseason record, with his teams having made the postseason each of the four years he has been starting.

3. I have seen mentioned in multiple Chargers games this year that Rivers in his career to date has led his team to a higher scoring (ppg) average than any other NFL QB in the past 60 years.

4. And just like in college, when he started an NCAA record (at the time) 51 games and never missed a start, no one can question his toughness and durability. He hasn't missed a start since he took over the starting job, even playing the AFC championship game a week after tearing his ACL.

Here's hoping the Chargers can win the Super Bowl this year, to give him a national perception boost in comparisons to other young QBs, particularly Eli and Roethlisberger. :thumbup:

Edited by Just Win Baby

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Reading the early comments is another demonstration of how popular thought can change in just a couple of years. It never ceases to amaze me how quickly people are to write off young talent if they struggle early.

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Dude put up nice yards, but face it Chargers fans -- you're never gonna win the big one with this guy as your QB.

That Int in the 3rd Quarter was a killer, as was Kaeding.

Rivers is now officially the Donovan McNabb of the AFC.

Oh, and TGunz, :thumbup:

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Dude put up nice yards, but face it Chargers fans -- you're never gonna win the big one with this guy as your QB.That Int in the 3rd Quarter was a killer, as was Kaeding.Rivers is now officially the Donovan McNabb of the AFC.Oh, and TGunz, :goodposting:

They got knocked out of the playoffs in 2009 when he put up 308 yards and 3 TDs against the #1 defense in the league.They got knocked out of the playoffs in 2010 when he up up 300 yards and 2 TDs against the #1 defense in the league. Keep in mind that only one other QB besides Rivers put up multiple TDs against the Jets this year.This loss was not on Rivers. To claim that based on one throw made in the 3rd quarter is ridiculous. He didn't play great by any means, but it's not his fault his uber accurate kicker decided that he suddenly was going to become Scott Norwood.If Adam Vinatieri sucked in the playoffs, would you be calling Tom Brady the Donovan Mcnabb of the AFC? Edited by FreeBaGeL

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Dude put up nice yards, but face it Chargers fans -- you're never gonna win the big one with this guy as your QB.That Int in the 3rd Quarter was a killer, as was Kaeding.Rivers is now officially the Donovan McNabb of the AFC.Oh, and TGunz, :bye:

They got knocked out of the playoffs in 2009 when he put up 308 yards and 3 TDs against the #1 defense in the league.They got knocked out of the playoffs in 2010 when he up up 300 yards and 2 TDs against the #1 defense in the league. Keep in mind that only one other QB besides Rivers put up multiple TDs against the Jets this year.This loss was not on Rivers. To claim that based on one throw made in the 3rd quarter is ridiculous. He didn't play great by any means, but it's not his fault his uber accurate kicker decided that he suddenly was going to become Scott Norwood.If Adam Vinatieri sucked in the playoffs, would you be calling Tom Brady the Donovan Mcnabb of the AFC?
:goodposting:

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Dude put up nice yards, but face it Chargers fans -- you're never gonna win the big one with this guy as your QB.That Int in the 3rd Quarter was a killer, as was Kaeding.Rivers is now officially the Donovan McNabb of the AFC.Oh, and TGunz, :bye:

They got knocked out of the playoffs in 2009 when he put up 308 yards and 3 TDs against the #1 defense in the league.They got knocked out of the playoffs in 2010 when he up up 300 yards and 2 TDs against the #1 defense in the league. Keep in mind that only one other QB besides Rivers put up multiple TDs against the Jets this year.This loss was not on Rivers. To claim that based on one throw made in the 3rd quarter is ridiculous. He didn't play great by any means, but it's not his fault his uber accurate kicker decided that he suddenly was going to become Scott Norwood.If Adam Vinatieri sucked in the playoffs, would you be calling Tom Brady the Donovan Mcnabb of the AFC?
:goodposting:
I think fault lies with the guy in the stands wearing the big sombrero.

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17 wins 0 losses in the month of December as a starter. The 17 December win streak is an NFL record. Pretty cool stat.

I vote for moving the playoffs to December.

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17 wins 0 losses in the month of December as a starter. The 17 December win streak is an NFL record. Pretty cool stat.

I vote for moving the playoffs to December.
Made me chuckle, even during a depressing day. Thanks

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He's no Eli Manning, but he's a pretty good QB. The 2nd INT was awful, especially deep in his own zone, but if Kaeding can make 2 average FG's (I'll let him slide on the 57 yarder), I think the outcome is different.

I'd like to see Rivers without Norv Turner as his coach.

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thoughts?

Here's one:Go away. You contribute nothing of value. Edited by Polar Dude

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Had high hopes for this guy this season -- waited late to draft a QB and he was the best one available. Oh woe is me. He seems to make poor decisions, particularly in the red zone, and he has no one to throw to but Gates and occassionally LT. Rivers may be dropped for Harrington this week. :goodposting: :screwed:

what have you been saying while Rivers has consistently finished in the top 4 QB's in terms of Tds, games won, yards, comp % , rating over the past 3 seasons???can't blame him for the loss, blame Kaeding or the SD defense..

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thoughts?

Here's one:Go away. You contribute nothing of value.
you're exactly right, pointing out that Rivers is overrated, which is a contrarian viewpoint in this forum, adds nothing of value to this forum. We should all only discuss topics where everybody is in agreement.How about that Chris Johnson, he sure is fast.

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thoughts?

Here's one:Go away. You contribute nothing of value.
you're exactly right, pointing out that Rivers is overrated, which is a contrarian viewpoint in this forum, adds nothing of value to this forum. We should all only discuss topics where everybody is in agreement.How about that Chris Johnson, he sure is fast.
Oh, that is what you are doing? Here I thought you were just throwing out stuff that you had convinced yourself of no matter what overwhelming evidence suggested. You come in here and throw your chest out when you are still wrong and expect people to take you serious. You have become a joke, I'm not sure if that is what you wanted and you just enjoy ruffling feathers but lets not act like you are here for the good of the community. Edited by PizzaDeliveryGuy

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Oh, that is what you are doing? Here I thought you were just throwing out stuff that you had convinced yourself of no matter what overwhelming evidence suggested.

You mean evidence like last night?Oof

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Oh, that is what you are doing? Here I thought you were just throwing out stuff that you had convinced yourself of no matter what overwhelming evidence suggested.

You mean evidence like last night?Oof
This is exactly what I'm referring to. If you were being honest with yourself, there is no way you can use yesterday to think you proved a point. Think about it, you are still trying to convince people that Rivers is terrible and that Leinart is good. It is obvious that you are just here fishing and I have no idea why it is tolerated.

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Think about it, you are still trying to convince people that Rivers is terrible

I never said that, my argument is that he's overrated.

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Think about it, you are still trying to convince people that Rivers is terrible

I never said that, my argument is that he's overrated.
Your first post in this thread:

I've been saying this for over a year. ;)

So you have said it, and that's not the only time.

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They got knocked out of the playoffs in 2010 when he up up 300 yards and 2 TDs against the #1 defense in the league. Keep in mind that only one other QB besides Rivers put up multiple TDs against the Jets this year.

WAT?

;)

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They got knocked out of the playoffs in 2010 when he up up 300 yards and 2 TDs against the #1 defense in the league. Keep in mind that only one other QB besides Rivers put up multiple TDs against the Jets this year.

WAT?

:thumbdown:

He threw a TD and ran for a TD. That's two.

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They got knocked out of the playoffs in 2010 when he up up 300 yards and 2 TDs against the #1 defense in the league. Keep in mind that only one other QB besides Rivers put up multiple TDs against the Jets this year.

WAT?

:thumbdown:

He threw a TD and ran for a TD. That's two.
So throwing for one and falling forward two inches for another constitutes "putting up multiple TDs"...?

Semantics, I suppose.

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Think about it, you are still trying to convince people that Rivers is terrible

I never said that, my argument is that he's overrated.
In what way is he overrated? If an average QB means that the QB is in the 13-24 range of QB's in the league, is Rivers in that group... in your opinion? If that range is smaller or more near the top, lets say in the 7-13 range, which would put him in the upper half of the leagues QB's. Does he fit into that range... in your opinion?If either of those ranges are where he fits in comparison to the other QB's in the league and others have him in a higher range, lets say in the 1-6, in respect to the second range given above, then in your opinion he is overrated. Or, if he is in the 14-24 range while others put him in the 7-13 range, then he would be overrated in your opinion. So, where does Rivers rank... in your opinion? Instead of making blanket statement, put forth some objectionable data that can be diagnosed and questioned.

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They got knocked out of the playoffs in 2010 when he up up 300 yards and 2 TDs against the #1 defense in the league. Keep in mind that only one other QB besides Rivers put up multiple TDs against the Jets this year.

WAT?

:goodposting:

He threw a TD and ran for a TD. That's two.
So throwing for one and falling forward two inches for another constitutes "putting up multiple TDs"...?

Semantics, I suppose.

Well if you're going to knock the rushing TD as falling forward two inches, then you should equally be willing to give him credit for the pass on the previous play where Jackson was tackled at the two inch line. So, yes, I think you are making a semantic argument if you argue the two TD statement.

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Think about it, you are still trying to convince people that Rivers is terrible

I never said that, my argument is that he's overrated.
In what way is he overrated? If an average QB means that the QB is in the 13-24 range of QB's in the league, is Rivers in that group... in your opinion? If that range is smaller or more near the top, lets say in the 7-13 range, which would put him in the upper half of the leagues QB's. Does he fit into that range... in your opinion?

If either of those ranges are where he fits in comparison to the other QB's in the league and others have him in a higher range, lets say in the 1-6, in respect to the second range given above, then in your opinion he is overrated. Or, if he is in the 14-24 range while others put him in the 7-13 range, then he would be overrated in your opinion.

So, where does Rivers rank... in your opinion? Instead of making blanket statement, put forth some objectionable data that can be diagnosed and questioned.

Pretty much everything LHUCKS posts is objectionable...

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Think about it, you are still trying to convince people that Rivers is terrible

I never said that, my argument is that he's overrated.
In what way is he overrated? If an average QB means that the QB is in the 13-24 range of QB's in the league, is Rivers in that group... in your opinion? If that range is smaller or more near the top, lets say in the 7-13 range, which would put him in the upper half of the leagues QB's. Does he fit into that range... in your opinion?

If either of those ranges are where he fits in comparison to the other QB's in the league and others have him in a higher range, lets say in the 1-6, in respect to the second range given above, then in your opinion he is overrated. Or, if he is in the 14-24 range while others put him in the 7-13 range, then he would be overrated in your opinion.

So, where does Rivers rank... in your opinion? Instead of making blanket statement, put forth some objectionable data that can be diagnosed and questioned.

Pretty much everything LHUCKS posts is objectionable...
True, however if he would actually add some data into his posts, then he could be showed data that contradicts his beliefs.

Yeah, we know that will never happen but I shall not stop from trying to get some data from him.

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