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Moe Green

Philip Rivers Is Terrible

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I'm done with him!! Something is clearly wrong with him, but I don't know if we will ever know what it is until after the season. I'm starting Tebow from here on out and not looking back. I was so sure he was going to put Up MVP type numbers, but it appears he's a borderline starter at this point.

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Rivers was the #1 scorer in my league last year. What's different this year?

1. They arent in comeback mode as much. The special teams and weird defensive scores put the chargers behind very frequently last year and they racked up the passing yards catching up

2. Not only is the run game used more while leading, it's better this year

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Rivers was the #1 scorer in my league last year. What's different this year?1. They arent in comeback mode as much. The special teams and weird defensive scores put the chargers behind very frequently last year and they racked up the passing yards catching up 2. Not only is the run game used more while leading, it's better this year

Yes, but this really speaks to why he might be throwing less often, not why the quality of his play is down.

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Rivers was the #1 scorer in my league last year. What's different this year?1. They arent in comeback mode as much. The special teams and weird defensive scores put the chargers behind very frequently last year and they racked up the passing yards catching up 2. Not only is the run game used more while leading, it's better this year

Yes, but this really speaks to why he might be throwing less often, not why the quality of his play is down.
Good point. Looking at non-fantasy stats...his comp% is up, his yds/att up vs career...but down a little vs last 2 years, yds/game over 300 is excellent and blows my theory above. TD %down. the INT % is the number that sticks out as horrid. Edited by Tango

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Missing a lot of receivers.

Floyd was hurt a while, so was Jackson and Gates.

If he can get them all back - he should be OK.

Dont forget he played a top tier pass defense today.

He will be OK.

If you expected him to be Rodgers or Brees - that wont happen.

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forget the eli conversation...the team should have been sticking with brees...they threw away the guy that was the only hope they had...rivers and norv don't care about winning, just about getting paid...

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Rivers misses Sproles badly

Realized that after week 3 Rivers suckage. Man what a mistake taking this guy in a redraft.

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Nobody's really giving up on him career-wise, right? Which is a diff't question then if we'd start him next week.

He still has a great chance of winning the AFC West. They could beat the Ravens/Steelers/Texans and then who knows, he may be the toast of the football world in a few months? The upside seems higher than downside. Worst case is they dont make the playoffs and it is written off as another tough year. If he loses Norv, then we can start to wonder about whether his career might go down the pooper.

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forget the eli conversation...the team should have been sticking with brees...they threw away the guy that was the only hope they had...rivers and norv don't care about winning, just about getting paid...

excellent analysis here.

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And the reject castoff Brees continues to roll on.

29 teams rejected Brees. Only the Saints and Phins made offers for him when he was a FA.

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Eli is better in every way. Better fantasy QB, better at winning games in the regular season, better in the post season. Looks like the Giants and JR were RIGHT!

You're off your rocker. Eli single handedly loses games his entire career at a very poor ratio. No NFL team would choose Manning over Rivers. I can say that without any hesitation.
Not sure what you are basing this upon. Eli was hugely instrumental in one of the more amazing Super Bowl runs ever. Guy can have terrible stretches, but finds a way to win, and has done so throughout his career. Even if he looks dorky doing it. :shrug:Now, as to taking Rivers over Eli, Id think 2-1 at least would take Rivers until this year - something is just off with Rivers right now and don't know what. Either way, only one has demonstrated ability to win the truly big game.
You and a few others are insinuating that Rivers is soley responsible for not winning playoff games yet give Eli 100% credit for winning a superbowl. Fact is that Steve Spagnolu and the Giants D won that superbowl. If not for a rediculous, NFL Films worthy catch that will go down in history Eli loses that game. He was nothing special in that game and has been average at best his entire career.
I am not insinuating Eli was THE reason, but he was a big part of that superbowl run. I saw the key throws, the clutch plays. Again, Eli is flawed, and it has not been Rivers' fault that they havent won it all. But, he hasn't.FWIW, as a Giants fan (and understanadbly biased as such), Eli has killed them plenty, but he has won games consistently when it counted. That super bowl run being the best example, but not the only one.
Eli has also lost plenty of games "when it counted". Rivers has won playoff games as well. Aren't those "big games"? Fortunately Merriman flamed out early or Accorsi's career would be defined by making one of the worst trades in NFL history. Since it's really just turned out to be Eli vs. Rivers, it was just a bad one, not historically bad.

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Part of the problem with Rivers going forward is the division is so putrid that Rivers won't be pressed to pass.

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Rivers missed Jackson 2times today deep when he had a step on revis. I think Rivers throws some of the best deep balls in the league, however, this year he seems to be missing alot more than usual.

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Missing a lot of receivers.Floyd was hurt a while, so was Jackson and Gates.If he can get them all back - he should be OK.Dont forget he played a top tier pass defense today.He will be OK.If you expected him to be Rodgers or Brees - that wont happen.

WHERE DOES HE RANK AT THIS POINT:RODGERSBREESsome where about 6-8????

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Missing a lot of receivers.Floyd was hurt a while, so was Jackson and Gates.If he can get them all back - he should be OK.Dont forget he played a top tier pass defense today.He will be OK.If you expected him to be Rodgers or Brees - that wont happen.

WHERE DOES HE RANK AT THIS POINT:RODGERSBREESsome where about 6-8????
HERANKSABOUT14THINMYLEAGUE

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Rivers misses Sproles badly

This is false. Data Dominator doesn't include today's game data yet, so here is the receiving production of the Chargers RBs in the first 5 games of each season since Norv arrived:2007: 31/239/2 receiving (7.7 ypr) on 44 targets2008: 31/353/2 receiving (11.4 ypr) on 41 targets2009: 26/279/1 receiving (10.7 ypr) on 42 targets2010: 31/272/0 receiving (8.8 ypr) on 41 targets2011: 54/520/2 receiving (9.6 ypr) on 66 targetsTheir production is up this year, not down.

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FWIW rivers has a bad attitude or at least comes across as such on the boob tube.

He really doesn't. He's just very fiery. He's pretty misunderstood, in my opinion, when it comes to people's perception of him.

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forget the eli conversation...the team should have been sticking with brees...they threw away the guy that was the only hope they had...rivers and norv don't care about winning, just about getting paid...

excellent analysis here.
what do you need as far as analysis...the chargers haven't won a big game in years....they had the lead today and choked...rivers sucked...norv has no clue...just like marty before him...get us a f'n young coach with some fire....a guy who wants to win and hates losing...not some guy who is just looking for a paycheck cuz he won the division...

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Fortunately Merriman flamed out early or Accorsi's career would be defined by making one of the worst trades in NFL history. Since it's really just turned out to be Eli vs. Rivers, it was just a bad one, not historically bad.

He's retired and been retired a while now. He was George Young's boy for much of his career (that we speak of) and it's his drafting/scouting ability that many credit as to why the Giants are phenomenal at drafting DEs. One of the last things he did was draft Kiwi when everyone balked at the idea. Kiwi was a very impressive young DE until Coughlin had the bright idea to play him at LB and became infatuated with it. He was Accorsi is the only GM I know of that ever went to a message board or newsgroup and chatted with fans. We should all praise the guy for that and hope today's GMs listen.The Giants went from the BB and BP years to Handley and in a real downward spiral til Accorsi came along and started helping with drafts in 93 or so. He had been the guy that somehow built a winner in Cleveland yet they let him get away and all he could do was help Young, not be the actual GM....amazing teams weren't falling all over for him. The Browns seemed to go from great old team to Kosar/accorsi's teams and everything in between was bad. The guy really didn't get enough credit...ever

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forget the eli conversation...the team should have been sticking with brees...they threw away the guy that was the only hope they had...rivers and norv don't care about winning, just about getting paid...

excellent analysis here.
what do you need as far as analysis...the chargers haven't won a big game in years....they had the lead today and choked...rivers sucked...norv has no clue...just like marty before him...get us a f'n young coach with some fire....a guy who wants to win and hates losing...not some guy who is just looking for a paycheck cuz he won the division...
Can you remind me what big games the Chargers won when Brees played for them? Are you aware that Norv and Rivers have won 3 playoff games with the Chargers, whereas Brees won zero?Brees is great, but Rivers has also been great. Your line of criticism focusing on Brees vs. Rivers is completely off base. This has also been covered repeatedly in other threads over the years.It is more valid to criticize Norv, although I also think he gets too much criticism. I believe he has the best winning percentage of any coach in Chargers history. You can knock him for slow starts, bad performances in big games, etc., but I think people overestimate how many coaches who were or could be available would have done better.

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FWIW rivers has a bad attitude or at least comes across as such on the boob tube.

He really doesn't. He's just very fiery. He's pretty misunderstood, in my opinion, when it comes to people's perception of him.
Maybe it's just his stupid face and the look he always has on it when things are going wrong. To me it always looks like he's blaming someone or something else. Will never get over the Cutler thing either. Also I'm a bolts fan, but that shouldnt really matter. However... stupid faces/super bowl rings aside, I'd still take Rivers over Eli.

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Fortunately Merriman flamed out early or Accorsi's career would be defined by making one of the worst trades in NFL history. Since it's really just turned out to be Eli vs. Rivers, it was just a bad one, not historically bad.

He's retired and been retired a while now. He was George Young's boy for much of his career (that we speak of) and it's his drafting/scouting ability that many credit as to why the Giants are phenomenal at drafting DEs. One of the last things he did was draft Kiwi when everyone balked at the idea. Kiwi was a very impressive young DE until Coughlin had the bright idea to play him at LB and became infatuated with it. He was

Accorsi is the only GM I know of that ever went to a message board or newsgroup and chatted with fans. We should all praise the guy for that and hope today's GMs listen.

The Giants went from the BB and BP years to Handley and in a real downward spiral til Accorsi came along and started helping with drafts in 93 or so. He had been the guy that somehow built a winner in Cleveland yet they let him get away and all he could do was help Young, not be the actual GM....amazing teams weren't falling all over for him. The Browns seemed to go from great old team to Kosar/accorsi's teams and everything in between was bad. The guy really didn't get enough credit...ever

Accorsi did not build the Browns. Most of the talent was already on the Browns when Accorsi showed up in 1985. They had their best year in 1986, at 12-4, and then bad draft after bad draft slowly eroded the talent level. Marty realized Accorsi sucked at being a GM so he wanted total control to draft the players. When Marty didn't get it, he knew the writing was on the wall and got out of town.

The team imploded under the weight of Accorsi's horrible drafts in 1990, going 3-13.

As a Browns fan for years, I remember all of us constantly complaining that Accorsi failed to shore up the offensive line. It surprised NOBODY that Kosar suffered a horrible arm injury in 1988. We could see it coming. He was getting killed back there.

Heckert BTW is actually doing a phenomenal job. His first two drafts have been wonderful. With the Browns luck, Heckert will get struck by lightning on his way to work though. i think that's the only way the Browns franchise doesn't turn around in 2-3 more years.

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Coming into the season I thought Ray Rice will finish as the top running back in the league and that Philip Rivers will finish as the top quarterback in this league. I'm looking alright with Ray Rice but I was dead wrong with Philip Rivers. He has the majority of his receivers, not to mention 2 running backs that are running decently and can also catch passes. To be honest, I really don't know whats wrong. San Diego typically starts off slow but the offense always looked sharp throughout a full season. To name guys that I would play him over would be:

Rodgers

Brady

Brees

Newton

Vick

Romo

Stafford

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Missing a lot of receivers.Floyd was hurt a while, so was Jackson and Gates.If he can get them all back - he should be OK.Dont forget he played a top tier pass defense today.He will be OK.If you expected him to be Rodgers or Brees - that wont happen.

WHERE DOES HE RANK AT THIS POINT:RODGERSBREESsome where about 6-8????
HERANKSABOUT14THINMYLEAGUE
I see what you did there.

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I want to know what was running through his head on that last play of the game.

At least pull it down and try to scramble for the 1st down if your receivers are covered. WTF?

No...I'm going to throw it out of bounds and then walk over to Norv and yell at him for the play call.

Rivers blows.

Edited by Bad_Mo

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What was he thinking on the last play of the game?

Throw it out of bounds on 4th and 3? Seriously?

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This thread pretty much sums Rivers up to the T.

Brilliantly inconsistent.

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What was he thinking on the last play of the game?Throw it out of bounds on 4th and 3? Seriously?

Seriously! Why the heck was he checking it down with about 30 sumthin seconds left?! Really bad clock management there. Rivers basically put the Jets in great position to win the game with the two INTs as well.

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This thread pretty much sums Rivers up to the T. Brilliantly inconsistent.

Except for last year, where he was brilliantly consistent.That's the weird thing. He seemed to break into that upper echelon of elite QB's...and now he's fallen back to earth.

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Norv is killing Rivers. SD has just eroded since he took over. It's only now finally effecting Rivers.

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This thread pretty much sums Rivers up to the T. Brilliantly inconsistent.

Except for last year, where he was brilliantly consistent.That's the weird thing. He seemed to break into that upper echelon of elite QB's...and now he's fallen back to earth.
What is odd is that he was trending up - and with a more healthy WR core this year, I really thought stars were aligned. Last year didnt come out of the blue, it was a progression. This year a sudden and unexpected regression.Could it be not having a healthy gates? The first half of last year he was sick, and Gates was through the roof. Second half he was very good, but not the same as with Gates. Gates is a shell right now - maybe he did mean that much.

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Rivers has always reminded me of Bernie Kosar, with maybe a touch more ability. But very similar QBs, limited athleticisim but very smart, accurate--not great arms but throw nice deep balls.

Bernie had a career year at 28 but his limited mobility hurt him and he began to take more hits. They took their toll on him and he was cut by Belichick shortly thereafter. At 29 Kosar was cut by Belichick and bounced around the NFL for four years as a journeyman. I think Rivers still has a few years in his prime. But he is starting to take a few more hits. He's not the Marino/Manning/Brady pocket type QB that can go games without getting hit.

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His delivery looks, and has always looked, bizarre and like he's struggling to throw. I swear, I cringed watching him against the Jets figuring that alot of those throws would be picked off.

Sure, he has been effective with it, but it looks odd.

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It is more valid to criticize Norv, although I also think he gets too much criticism. I believe he has the best winning percentage of any coach in Chargers history.

How many other coaches in Chargers history took over 14-2 teams?

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It is more valid to criticize Norv, although I also think he gets too much criticism. I believe he has the best winning percentage of any coach in Chargers history.

How many other coaches in Chargers history took over 14-2 teams?
Exactly! Rex Ryan was right. Two rings by now.

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It is more valid to criticize Norv, although I also think he gets too much criticism. I believe he has the best winning percentage of any coach in Chargers history.

How many other coaches in Chargers history took over 14-2 teams?
And Norv took that team to the AFC Championship. :shrug:Anyone suggesting that the 2008 team was anywhere nearly as talented as the 14-2 2006 team is not informed.

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For all of the beating Norv takes in this forum, in the press, and from fans (including Charger fans), he has ONE bad playoff loss, the home loss against the Jets in 2009. The Jets beat San Diego 17-14. Nate Kaeding, the most accurate FG kicker in the history of the NFL at the time, was 0-3 on FGs, from 36, 57, and 40 yards. Probably one of the biggest flukes in playoff history, yet Norv gets the blame. :thumbdown:

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It is more valid to criticize Norv, although I also think he gets too much criticism. I believe he has the best winning percentage of any coach in Chargers history.

How many other coaches in Chargers history took over 14-2 teams?
And Norv took that team to the AFC Championship. :shrug:Anyone suggesting that the 2008 team was anywhere nearly as talented as the 14-2 2006 team is not informed.
:goodposting:Norv is also tied with Bobby Ross for best postseason winning percentage (both are/were 3-3).

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For all of the beating Norv takes in this forum, in the press, and from fans (including Charger fans), he has ONE bad playoff loss, the home loss against the Jets in 2009. The Jets beat San Diego 17-14. Nate Kaeding, the most accurate FG kicker in the history of the NFL at the time, was 0-3 on FGs, from 36, 57, and 40 yards. Probably one of the biggest flukes in playoff history, yet Norv gets the blame. :thumbdown:

:goodposting:

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For all of the beating Norv takes in this forum, in the press, and from fans (including Charger fans), he has ONE bad playoff loss, the home loss against the Jets in 2009. The Jets beat San Diego 17-14. Nate Kaeding, the most accurate FG kicker in the history of the NFL at the time, was 0-3 on FGs, from 36, 57, and 40 yards. Probably one of the biggest flukes in playoff history, yet Norv gets the blame. :thumbdown:

I think the problem with that game is that the Chargers look completely unprepared to play. They were winning 7-0 at the half, but considering how bad the Jets looked early on, had the Chargers been on their game and ready to play, it would have been over by half. I remember hearing reports about some Chargers players being out partying on the nights before the game. It seemed like the Chargers were too cocky and figured they could just show up and beat the Jets. Not putting that all on Turner, but a head coach does have to keep the team centered and focused on a two-week layoff. As fo Rivers, I can't figure it out either. He is suddenly playing mediocre ball at the QB position. I don't think anyone saw this coming.

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For all of the beating Norv takes in this forum, in the press, and from fans (including Charger fans), he has ONE bad playoff loss, the home loss against the Jets in 2009. The Jets beat San Diego 17-14. Nate Kaeding, the most accurate FG kicker in the history of the NFL at the time, was 0-3 on FGs, from 36, 57, and 40 yards. Probably one of the biggest flukes in playoff history, yet Norv gets the blame. :thumbdown:

I think the problem with that game is that the Chargers look completely unprepared to play. They were winning 7-0 at the half, but considering how bad the Jets looked early on, had the Chargers been on their game and ready to play, it would have been over by half. I remember hearing reports about some Chargers players being out partying on the nights before the game. It seemed like the Chargers were too cocky and figured they could just show up and beat the Jets. Not putting that all on Turner, but a head coach does have to keep the team centered and focused on a two-week layoff. As fo Rivers, I can't figure it out either. He is suddenly playing mediocre ball at the QB position. I don't think anyone saw this coming.
Certainly Norv deserves some blame when his team loses a home playoff game, but the Jets were the #1 scoring defense in the NFL that season. It's not particularly surprising that the Chargers struggled on offense. But had Kaeding made 2/3 FGs, the Bolts would have scored ~ 50% more pts that the Jets allowed per game that season, and would have won the game. And those FG's were almost chippies. Kaeding is automatic from 36 and 40 yards historically.

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For all of the beating Norv takes in this forum, in the press, and from fans (including Charger fans), he has ONE bad playoff loss, the home loss against the Jets in 2009. The Jets beat San Diego 17-14. Nate Kaeding, the most accurate FG kicker in the history of the NFL at the time, was 0-3 on FGs, from 36, 57, and 40 yards. Probably one of the biggest flukes in playoff history, yet Norv gets the blame. :thumbdown:

I think the problem with that game is that the Chargers look completely unprepared to play. They were winning 7-0 at the half, but considering how bad the Jets looked early on, had the Chargers been on their game and ready to play, it would have been over by half. I remember hearing reports about some Chargers players being out partying on the nights before the game. It seemed like the Chargers were too cocky and figured they could just show up and beat the Jets. Not putting that all on Turner, but a head coach does have to keep the team centered and focused on a two-week layoff. As fo Rivers, I can't figure it out either. He is suddenly playing mediocre ball at the QB position. I don't think anyone saw this coming.
Certainly Norv deserves some blame when his team loses a home playoff game, but the Jets were the #1 scoring defense in the NFL that season. It's not particularly surprising that the Chargers struggled on offense. But had Kaeding made 2/3 FGs, the Bolts would have scored ~ 50% more pts that the Jets allowed per game that season, and would have won the game. And those FG's were almost chippies. Kaeding is automatic from 36 and 40 yards historically.
And Schottenheimer got fired because Kaeding missed a FG. Unfortuantely Turner is still around.Also note that in addition to one bad playoff loss, he missed the playoffs in a weak division due almost entirely to bad coaching.

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