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Moe Green

Philip Rivers Is Terrible

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1 hour ago, Dr. Octopus said:

You took my initial statement that the Bucs would be replacing a young turnover prone QB with a 38 year old turnover prone QB and showed career totals when it was obvious that I was talking about the 38 year old version of Rivers. When I pointed that out you then split his season into two halves as if it made it better that most of his turnovers came in the second half of the season.

If you want I'll admit that Winston is a total bonehead and Rivers just seems to be in serious decline so their turnovers are not for the same reason but the point remains. At least Winston still has some upside at this point as is capable of making throws and moving around in ways that Rivers is not.

I know you're a tremendous Rivers' homer and that's fine - maybe he does have some juice left. Maybe the nationally televised games were not indictive as to what he has become and those that watched every snap can paint a different picture. But sorry, he looks washed to me - but maybe he gets a chance to show that the "surface-level narrative" is not the reality. We'll see.

A couple things.

First, yes, I am a big Rivers homer. Second, it is absolutely fair to characterize Rivers as turnover prone, as @CalBear pointed out.

The reason I replied to your original post is because calling Rivers turnover prone and calling Winston turnover prone, as if they are roughly equal in that regard, is pretty far off base IMO. If Rivers is turnover prone, Winston is a turnover machine. Based just on last season, and focusing only on turnovers, Rivers would likely cut TB's turnovers in half if he starts there in 2020. So I responded to show the disparity.

Not to mention he would be better than Winston in many other ways; turnovers are only part of the story.

As for whether or not Rivers is washed up, I don't think so. He played a lot better than the popular narrative would have you believe; I posted data supporting this higher up on this page. Rivers addressed it in his final press conference of the season, saying: ""I know the people that know, know. I still can play at a high level." I agree with him, and I think the film does, too.

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23 minutes ago, Just Win Baby said:

 If Rivers is turnover prone, Winston is a turnover machine.

I wasn't trying to say they were on the same level when it comes to turnovers - just that if they replace Winston they may not want to turn to Rivers. He's not exactly going to correct that issue (even if it is indeed half) while not offering the arm-strength, mobility or upside that Winston does (since theoretically he could still improve). Now maybe it turns into Arians resurrecting Carson Palmer's career all over again but I have my doubts based on what I observed of Rivers last year, while admitting I may have just seen him at his worst.

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I have liked Rivers from a FF perspective, but never as a franchise QB.  Now he looks totally done in both aspects.

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I keep hearing TB. Right - because going from a team that can run & play defense where Rivers throws wildly inaccurate passes is going to be a huge upgrade when he goes to a team that can’t run or play defense while Rivers throws wildly inaccurate passes. 

at least with Winston there’s the good Winston & the bad Winston. 

there is only bad Rivers now. This is going to be a disaster. 

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2 hours ago, Dr. Octopus said:

I wasn't trying to say they were on the same level when it comes to turnovers - just that if they replace Winston they may not want to turn to Rivers. He's not exactly going to correct that issue (even if it is indeed half) while not offering the arm-strength, mobility or upside that Winston does (since theoretically he could still improve). Now maybe it turns into Arians resurrecting Carson Palmer's career all over again but I have my doubts based on what I observed of Rivers last year, while admitting I may have just seen him at his worst.

I posted before reading yours - basically just said the exact same thing. Huge downgrade for TB, and a ridiculous waste of a year of potential development for Winston. 

if Ariens is truly the QB whisperer, I cannot see why he wouldn’t want to continue to work on Winston’s game in favor of a washed up Rivers. 

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14 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

I keep hearing TB. Right - because going from a team that can run & play defense where Rivers throws wildly inaccurate passes is going to be a huge upgrade when he goes to a team that can’t run or play defense while Rivers throws wildly inaccurate passes. 

at least with Winston there’s the good Winston & the bad Winston. 

there is only bad Rivers now. This is going to be a disaster. 

1. If Rivers goes to Tampa, he goes from the #31 pass blocking offense to the #10 pass blocking offense, based on PFF 2019 grades. That is a huge upgrade, which will have a significant impact on his play. Rivers has only had maybe 1 season with pass blocking graded that high, and it was more than a decade ago. Most of the OLs he has played behind with the Chargers have been well below average, and sometimes bottom of the league caliber.

2. There was no significant difference in the two rushing offenses in 2019.

3. Rivers didn't throw "wildly inaccurate passes" this season. The data that disproves that notion is on the previous page.

 

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4 hours ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

I keep hearing TB. Right - because going from a team that can run & play defense where Rivers throws wildly inaccurate passes is going to be a huge upgrade when he goes to a team that can’t run or play defense while Rivers throws wildly inaccurate passes. 

at least with Winston there’s the good Winston & the bad Winston. 

there is only bad Rivers now. This is going to be a disaster. 

DVOA has the Tampa defense #5 this year. 

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4 hours ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

I posted before reading yours - basically just said the exact same thing. Huge downgrade for TB, and a ridiculous waste of a year of potential development for Winston. 

if Ariens is truly the QB whisperer, I cannot see why he wouldn’t want to continue to work on Winston’s game in favor of a washed up Rivers. 

Because Winston will cost 25M to re-sign. It’s not apples to apples. 

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IF he goes to a new team ...IF....That is my new favorite team. Hate on him all you want but most know. Just like he said. 

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5 hours ago, Capella said:

Because Winston will cost 25M to re-sign. It’s not apples to apples. 

I’m aware of that. But he’s also significantly younger and likely has a bright future for the franchise. 

let’s look at this another way - in a salary cap league, where rivers costs you $13 & Winston costs you $25, who would you rather have for your dynasty team? 

 

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24 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

I’m aware of that. But he’s also significantly younger and likely has a bright future for the franchise. 

let’s look at this another way - in a salary cap league, where rivers costs you $13 & Winston costs you $25, who would you rather have for your dynasty team? 

 

I don’t know. Fantasy football is stupid and has nothing to do with this. 
 

I’ve seen every Jameis game and likely every snap back to his first game in college in 2013. Couldn’t be more done with the guy. He played more reckless this year than ever before and it cost a decent team likely 2-3 wins. 

Edited by Capella
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25 minutes ago, Capella said:

I don’t know. Fantasy football is stupid and has nothing to do with this. 
I’ve seen every Jameis game and likely every snap back to his first game in college in 2013. Couldn’t be more done with the guy. He played more reckless this year than ever before and it cost a decent team likely 2-3 wins. 

Wow. Jameis, for all his faults, and your WRs were your team. Who you bringing in?

Your defense was #5 DVOA, but it cost them the first half of the year in pass defense. 

Your kicker cost you 2-3 games this year along with Jameis, if we're cutting teeth on this. 

Edited by rockaction
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20 minutes ago, Capella said:

I don’t know. Fantasy football is stupid and has nothing to do with this. 

the hottest of takes. Except I was making an analogy, so it had everything to do with this. 

Kind of a rude way to engage in discussion, btw. 

The simple fact is that TB will continue to be terrible as long as they invest in dead-enders like Rivers instead of developing young talent like Winston. It’s possible Winston had his worst turnover-laden season because he has a new aggressive coach who uses an air raid offense. That is the only real change from last season. 

As for your take on Winston’s ability, last I checked, dude had a legitimate shot at the single season yardage record this year. 

That’s real football, btw, not “stupid” fantasy football.

You do know this is a stupid FF site, right? 
 

 

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4 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

the hottest of takes. Except I was making an analogy, so it had everything to do with this. 

Kind of a rude way to engage in discussion, btw. 

The simple fact is that TB will continue to be terrible as long as they invest in dead-enders like Rivers instead of developing young talent like Winston. It’s possible Winston had his worst turnover-laden season because he has a new aggressive coach who uses an air raid offense. That is the only real change from last season. 

As for your take on Winston’s ability, last I checked, dude had a legitimate shot at the single season yardage record this year. 

That’s real football, btw, not “stupid” fantasy football.

You do know this is a stupid FF site, right? 
 

 

Calling FF stupid isn’t rude, it wasn’t a personal attack on you unless you take fantasy football that seriously. 
 

Yes I know the website. I mainly post in the FFA but saw a rivers thread here and made the mistake of opening it. 
 

Maybe Winston had the worst turnover season in 20 years because of the reasons you stated or more likely because that’s who he is. After all, he got benched for turnovers literally the year before with another coach but sure, blame Arians. 

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9 minutes ago, rockaction said:

Wow. Jameis, for all his faults, and your WRs were your team. Who you bringing in?

Your defense was #5 DVOA, but it cost them the first half of the year in pass defense. 

Your kicker cost you 2-3 games this year along with Jameis, if we're cutting teeth on this. 

Yes the kicker sucked too. It’s not all on Jameis but a lot of it was. 
 

I have no idea who they bring in. It’ll probably be another loser. But paying Jameis 25M and crippling the rest of your team is a non-starter. Now if they can get him for 13-15M? Then I’m game. Unlikely that happens though. 

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34 minutes ago, Capella said:

Calling FF stupid isn’t rude, it wasn’t a personal attack on you unless you take fantasy football that seriously. 
 

call it whatever you like, your response was rude as hell, and this one ain’t much better:

Goodnight. 

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1 hour ago, Capella said:

Yes the kicker sucked too. It’s not all on Jameis but a lot of it was. 
I have no idea who they bring in. It’ll probably be another loser. But paying Jameis 25M and crippling the rest of your team is a non-starter. Now if they can get him for 13-15M? Then I’m game. Unlikely that happens though. 

This really might be so. I'll take a homer's point of view with a little more weight than usual. You seem to know your stuff -- passions aside -- about the Bucs.

As far as Jameis goes, your frustration as a homer might be aggravated or just dead-on. I can't tell which and don't make the big bucks to do so, so I'll not argue but rather, wait.  I think given the market, he should split his expectations with that of the club's and sign for $19-21 M or so, which is really a reasonable starting QB salary given the market and starts to correct the market from its ridiculously inflated trend that we know it to be. 

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13 hours ago, Capella said:

Because Winston will cost 25M to re-sign. It’s not apples to apples. 

How much would you expect Rivers to cost?

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25 minutes ago, Dr. Octopus said:

How much would you expect Rivers to cost?

17-20 for 1-2 years. I guess they could do one year on Jameis but most of what I read was 3-4 years. 

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Just now, Capella said:

17-20 for 1-2 years. I guess they could do one year on Jameis but most of what I read was 3-4 years. 

I think Rivers will be looking for more than that but at that price I guess he’d be worth the risk - while they try and draft and develop a young guy.

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9 minutes ago, Dr. Octopus said:

I think Rivers will be looking for more than that but at that price I guess he’d be worth the risk - while they try and draft and develop a young guy.

Yea I mean I really have no idea. I was working under the impression Rivers would be quite a bit cheaper. At 20-25 then yea just give me Jameis. 

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2 hours ago, Capella said:

17-20 for 1-2 years. I guess they could do one year on Jameis but most of what I read was 3-4 years. 

So again, you’d rather have Rivers for $20M to be the last stop for a dead-ender than give Winston $25M to see if he can develop into a future franchise QB? 

Rivers seems like a huge waste of $ to me. 

If Bucs management agrees with that, then that’s why they’ll continue to suck.

Further, bringing in a HC who specializes in developing QBs was also a waste of time & $. If Rivers is the Bucs plan, they don’t need Ariens. 

finally I’m not sure where you’re getting $25m for Winston when the Bucs can franchise tag him. Before the Rivers rumor  that was thought to be the plan. 
:shrug: 

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3 hours ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

So again, you’d rather have Rivers for $20M to be the last stop for a dead-ender than give Winston $25M to see if he can develop into a future franchise QB? 

Rivers seems like a huge waste of $ to me. 

If Bucs management agrees with that, then that’s why they’ll continue to suck.

Further, bringing in a HC who specializes in developing QBs was also a waste of time & $. If Rivers is the Bucs plan, they don’t need Ariens. 

finally I’m not sure where you’re getting $25m for Winston when the Bucs can franchise tag him. Before the Rivers rumor  that was thought to be the plan. 
:shrug: 

I couldn't disagree more with this. Winston has had 5 years, and he's the exact same QB he was day 1 of his rookie season. Still missing the same reads, and still forcing the same throws. He is certainly capable of high-end play(I'd gladly take him in Chicago) but he's not a future franchise QB, its never happening.

Rivers has been a top notch QB in the years leading to 2019. There were certainly times last year, where he looked like he'd stopped caring, but even then, he was still better than Winston. Tampa isn't that far off. They had a bunch of unfortunate losses, as has been detailed a little higher on the page. I also feel like some of Arians concepts may have been a bit too complex for Winston, whether that is an experience issue, or not, its not an issue I see Rivers having. 

Its also entirely possible Rivers is reinvigorated being on a new team, and actually having home games.

I think the biggest part I disagree with, and many have disagreed, is that Rivers is washed up. There is zero evidence to support that. He went from back to back high end seasons, to a down year, where he was still above average. Even Rivers down 2019 is as good as than anything Winston has ever done.

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58 minutes ago, travdogg said:

I couldn't disagree more with this. Winston has had 5 years, and he's the exact same QB he was day 1 of his rookie season. Still missing the same reads, and still forcing the same throws. He is certainly capable of high-end play(I'd gladly take him in Chicago) but he's not a future franchise QB, its never happening.

Rivers has been a top notch QB in the years leading to 2019. There were certainly times last year, where he looked like he'd stopped caring, but even then, he was still better than Winston. Tampa isn't that far off. They had a bunch of unfortunate losses, as has been detailed a little higher on the page. I also feel like some of Arians concepts may have been a bit too complex for Winston, whether that is an experience issue, or not, its not an issue I see Rivers having. 

Its also entirely possible Rivers is reinvigorated being on a new team, and actually having home games.

I think the biggest part I disagree with, and many have disagreed, is that Rivers is washed up. There is zero evidence to support that. He went from back to back high end seasons, to a down year, where he was still above average. Even Rivers down 2019 is as good as than anything Winston has ever done.

Rivers sure looked washed up to me. But I was just watching him play, so... :shrug: 

it was his reads, his arm strength & his mobility (which he never really had much of to begin with) - he looked shaky in the pocket, made bad throws, lacked touch, and couldn’t get the ball deep. His numbers would have looked even worse without the 6,000 check-downs to Eck & Gordon. 

I don’t see any scenario where Rivers is “revitalized” short of finding the fountain of youth.

and I’ve long been a Rivers fan. He helped me to a title one season. I have nothing against Rivers other than the fact that he fell off the same cliff that a lot of aging QBs fall off of. 

Winston has had 5 years with different OCs, coaches & for a while a lack of depth of weapons. TB still didn’t have a consistent run game & their OL was middle of the road.  

as I understood it, they brought in Arians to coach up Winston. I expected growing pains. Maybe one season isn’t long enough to get Winston into some good habits. 

You’re certainly entitled to your onion, but I respectfully disagree with your disagreement. :) 

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1 hour ago, Ben & Jerry's said:

I won't be surprised to see Rivers sporting a horseshoe on the side of his helmet next year. 

Could be.   Not sure there should be a Rivers vs. Winston discussion just yet.   

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1 minute ago, DocHolliday said:

Could be.   Not sure there should be a Rivers vs. Winston discussion just yet.   

Yeah, plenty of teams could be looking for QB's.

Panthers, Bears, Colts, Jaguars, Raiders, Chargers, Dolphins, Patriots, Steelers, Bucs. Obviously some of those teams will draft a QB, and this is a draft where 3 QB's are pretty much a lock as 1st rounders, with Burrow almost a lock to Cincy.

Rivers to me seems like a guy who 100% will be a starter next season. I could see a scenario where Winston isn't, and is brought in as competition for another QB. Maybe Chicago? 

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2 hours ago, Ben & Jerry's said:

I won't be surprised to see Rivers sporting a horseshoe on the side of his helmet next year. 

Probably a good guess. 

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1 hour ago, DocHolliday said:

Could be.   Not sure there should be a Rivers vs. Winston discussion just yet.   

Maybe not,  but since there is, if you’re the Bucs who do you want QB-ing your team in 2020? 

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1 hour ago, travdogg said:

Maybe Chicago? 

I know several bears fans who’d need to be put on suicide watch if this happens. They struggled enough with Trubisky this season.

jokes aside, I think Mitch develops into a good QB. As soon as they took the shackles off his legs, the whole Bears offense opened up. He didn’t have a bad last 3-4 games (1 stinker of several great performance IIRC).

CHI refused to commit to the run game, and they tried to keep Mitch in the pocket instead of letting him run out of trouble - it looked like they figured out a few things at the end of the season.

or I could be wrong & Mitch could be a terrible awful no good QB next year. Time will tell. :shrug: I don’t think Chicago is in the market for Rivers though. 

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3 hours ago, Ben & Jerry's said:

I won't be surprised to see Rivers sporting a horseshoe on the side of his helmet next year. 

this is the only one I think he would even do, because of Frank Reich,  and the Colts have a bunch of cap room.

The Florida move is weird though, lends me to believe he hangs them up, unless someone massively over pays

 

Edited by bicycle_seat_sniffer
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46 minutes ago, bicycle_seat_sniffer said:

The Florida move is weird though, lends me to believe he hangs them up, unless someone massively over pays

 

Never underestimate an aging QBs willingness to play for literally anyone to not have to give up the game. 

Rivers strikes me as a guy who would run through a burning building in a gasoline suit to keep playing. His intensity is polarizing for a lot of NFL fans, but I’ve always preferred his perpetual look of perturbed rage to say, Eli Manning’s slumped shoulders on the sideline after a pick.

IMO he’ll keep playing until no one wants him or he’s physically unable. At least that’s my impression of him. Again, I could be wrong. I don’t know the man personally. 

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2 hours ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

Maybe not,  but since there is, if you’re the Bucs who do you want QB-ing your team in 2020? 

Not Winston or Rivers.  

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12 minutes ago, DocHolliday said:

Not Winston or Rivers.  

But...but those are the choices right now. Who of those two. 

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11 hours ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

So again, you’d rather have Rivers for $20M to be the last stop for a dead-ender than give Winston $25M to see if he can develop into a future franchise QB? 

Rivers seems like a huge waste of $ to me. 

If Bucs management agrees with that, then that’s why they’ll continue to suck.

Further, bringing in a HC who specializes in developing QBs was also a waste of time & $. If Rivers is the Bucs plan, they don’t need Ariens. 

finally I’m not sure where you’re getting $25m for Winston when the Bucs can franchise tag him. Before the Rivers rumor  that was thought to be the plan. 
:shrug: 

The thought behind bringing in Rivers is drafting a qb in rd 1/2 that would spend a year behind him developing in the Arians system. If they’ve determined that Jameis can’t be the guy at that price, they know they have a competitive team for 2020 and want to win now. That doesn’t happen with a rookie qb. Nobody is expecting Rivers to be any kind of a long term solution. 

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Wow. This is interesting. In my mind Rivers wasn't even better than Brissett this year, and I saw both play quite often. Rivers vs. the Raiders was about as bad as one could get, and convinced me that he was washed, also.

I could be wrong. Like HSG, if he proves me wrong, no harm no foul. I've also always liked Rivers and his game. But it seems gone. 

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My thoughts in no order -

I agree with everyone who's said that rivers has looked cooked.  Based on the national games and few times he's been on redzone.

 

Since when is TB in superbowl or bust mode?  There's a team that could draft a rookie qb to ride the pine behind a vet and it would make sense.

 

Hate Winston as a real world qb, but as I said before I don't see rivers as a real option any more, especially for a team that wants to gun it.  Would rather neither.

 

Tybursky sucks and always will suck.

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On 1/20/2020 at 3:08 PM, Dr. Octopus said:

So Tampa Bay would move on from a young turnover prone QB in favor of a 38 year old turnover prone QB? That doesn't sound like a good plan.

It's because Bruce Arians is an impatient franchise wrecker at this point, willing to throw your future in the trash for a long shot 1 percent chance at a super bowl appearance before he retires. 

I do think he's trying to set up one of his protégé as well, Leftwich most likely. 

 

Edited by kittenmittens

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9 hours ago, Capella said:

The thought behind bringing in Rivers is drafting a qb in rd 1/2 that would spend a year behind him developing in the Arians system. If they’ve determined that Jameis can’t be the guy at that price, they know they have a competitive team for 2020 and want to win now. That doesn’t happen with a rookie qb. Nobody is expecting Rivers to be any kind of a long term solution. 

That doesn't happen with Rivers either, especially if they spend an early draft pick on a QB instead of improving their team elsewhere. Also, didn't he basically say he has no interest in mentoring a young QB?

Really see very little upside to Tampa by bringing in Rivers.

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Winston - never had it in the NFL, and for $25M isn't worth the shot in the dark he finds it

Rivers - no longer has it

LAC's and TB's best options lie elsewhere

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13 hours ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

But...but those are the choices right now. Who of those two. 

Draft a QB.  Throw him onto the field in 2020 or find a cheap vet for 2020.   Winston and Rivers aren’t taking the Bucs to the SB in 2020.   Rivers looked done to me.   Winston is a horrible decision-maker.  

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17 hours ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

I know several bears fans who’d need to be put on suicide watch if this happens. They struggled enough with Trubisky this season.

jokes aside, I think Mitch develops into a good QB. As soon as they took the shackles off his legs, the whole Bears offense opened up. He didn’t have a bad last 3-4 games (1 stinker of several great performance IIRC).

CHI refused to commit to the run game, and they tried to keep Mitch in the pocket instead of letting him run out of trouble - it looked like they figured out a few things at the end of the season.

or I could be wrong & Mitch could be a terrible awful no good QB next year. Time will tell. :shrug: I don’t think Chicago is in the market for Rivers though. 

We must look at very different things in QB's. Trubisky is a backup QB and nothing more in my opinion, as a Bears fan. He simply can't play with any consistency, not just week to week, but even snap to snap. He has all the negatives of Winston, but with none of the high end play. 

I agree its unlikely the Bears go after Rivers or Winston, but both would be upgrades. I think they are more likely to go a cheaper route, like Mariota or maybe Dalton. Either way, any of those 4 would be an upgrade in my opinion. Maybe Jake Fromm is still there in round 2? 

Unrelated side note, why are people so quick to say Rivers is done from 1 down season? I see the same thing in the Brady thread, and even the Brees(seriously?) one. Its like people want to be the 1st one to be right about writing someone off. I could see Rivers, and especially Brady, pulling a Favre in Minnesota in the right situation. 

Indy needs a QB more than anybody, they should be in on everyone. Reich is an excellent play caller, and Brissett looked awful, he was the worst starting QB in he NFL in my opinion. He had the best o-line in the NFL, an easy schedule, and while the Colts weapons did have trouble staying healthy, nothing about Brissett's play made me think he would have fared well if they'd been healthy. The Colts probably would have won more games just starting Hoyer, and he's no great shakes either. 

If I were ranking available QB's I'd rank them as follows:

1. Brees, be shocked if he left NO.

2. Brady, could easily see a 2009 Favre season from him out of NE.

3. Rivers, he needs an o-line. That fixes probably 70% of his issues in my eyes.

4. Prescott, be shocked if he left Dallas, but he doesn't do enough in a near perfect situation. He's closer to Cousins than a Franchise guy.

5. Tannehill, I think both sides want to stay together.

6. Fitzpatrick, quietly is playing the best football of his career. Could be very useful in the right situation. No lock to leave Miami.

7. Dalton, assuming the Bengals don't keep him as bridge QB to start the 1st part of the season. The Bengals awfulness isn't on him.

8. Foles, assuming Jags go in a different direction. Foles has proven he can be valuable in the past, maybe he'd have been better if healthy all year.

9. Mariota, his career is almost identical to Tannehill's before 2019. Change of scenery/expectations could go a long way.

10. Keenum, can't get that 2017 out of my head. He's not a starter, but is a perfect guy to push a starter. 

11. Winston, too many awful decisions. Hasn't developed one bit in 5 years. May have actually regressed, despite arguably best weapons in the NFL over the last 2 years.

12. Flacco, less good version of Keenum.

13. Bridgewater, feels like obvious fool's gold. He doesn't get to take Sean Payton, a top o-line, or Michael Thomas with him.

14. Taylor, another solid backup, could be a cap casualty for the Chargers.

15. Newton, I think he's done, physically, and maybe mentally, and will require a high price both in trade compensation, and money investment. He's Daunte Culpepper to me. 

There has been rumors that Derek Carr could be let go by the Raiders, he's never really come close to his 2016 season again. He'd probably be in the Dalton/Foles range for me. He can be good when surrounded by great weapons, that is not the Raiders currently. 

Alex Smith could also be available as he's expressed an intention to return to the league. I like him a ton as a cheaper investment, as a bridge QB, if he can get cleared. He was in the Prescott/Tannehill range before his devastating injury. But with no information on his health I decided not to include him.

Edited by travdogg
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1 hour ago, DocHolliday said:

Draft a QB.  Throw him onto the field in 2020 or find a cheap vet for 2020.   Winston and Rivers aren’t taking the Bucs to the SB in 2020.   Rivers looked done to me.   Winston is a horrible decision-maker.  

They could draft a QB & have either Winston or Rivers. 

Wouldn’t it make sense to see if some coaching could improve Winston’s decision making? He was a better decision maker last year. Maybe there’s a learning curve to the new system? 
 

just seems weird to throw away the investment in Winston. Dude’s got a cannon, and seems likely to eventually develop into a top 10 QB. 

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2 hours ago, DocHolliday said:

Draft a QB.  Throw him onto the field in 2020 or find a cheap vet for 2020.   Winston and Rivers aren’t taking the Bucs to the SB in 2020.   Rivers looked done to me.   Winston is a horrible decision-maker.  

It’s not about the super bowl. The franchise hasn’t made the playoffs in 13 years. You have to walk first. The rest of the team is likely playoff caliber - they need a qb that won’t outright lose them multiple games. 

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40 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

They could draft a QB & have either Winston or Rivers. 

Wouldn’t it make sense to see if some coaching could improve Winston’s decision making? He was a better decision maker last year. Maybe there’s a learning curve to the new system? 
 

just seems weird to throw away the investment in Winston. Dude’s got a cannon, and seems likely to eventually develop into a top 10 QB. 

His INT % was 3.7 in 2018. Admittedly better than 4.8 in 2019 but still one of the worst in the league. It’s not an Arians thing. 

Edited by Capella

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23 minutes ago, Capella said:

His INT % was 3.7 in 2018. Admittedly better than 4.8 in 2019 but still one of the worst in the league. It’s not an Arians thing. 

that’s not a very compelling argument.

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Guys, this is the Philip Rivers is Terrible thread, not the Jameis Winston is Terrible thread. Please stay on topic.

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3 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

that’s not a very compelling argument.

Yea ok. That translates into 23 picks with the amount of passes he threw in 2019 which also would have...lead the league. 

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