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Moe Green

Philip Rivers Is Terrible

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They have the talent to beat any likely first round opponent

I'm starting to question this. Especially now that Castillo will be out for a while.
Is there any new injury news on Shaun Phillips? He's probably been the Chargers best defender this year.
(KFFL) Kevin Acee, of the San Diego Union-Tribune, reports San Diego Chargers LB Shaun Phillips (groin) will return to practice Wednesday, Nov. 7.That's pretty big because not only is Castillo hurting but Cesaire and McKinney have had their own health issues at DE. They are going to need Phillips and his pass rush ability back.

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Is there any new injury news on Shaun Phillips? He's probably been the Chargers best defender this year.

Haven't seen anything on him. They were saying on the telecast Sunday that Phillips wanted to play then but Norv told him to take the week off. I think Merriman has been the best defender so far. Not as flashy as Phillips maybe, but he's literally been all over the place and in on so many tackles it's incredible.

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They have the talent to beat any likely first round opponent

I'm starting to question this. Especially now that Castillo will be out for a while.
Yes, but he is expected back before the playoffs, which is what I was referring to in the statement you quoted... so why does Castillo's injury show that their talent level is questionable? :o

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They have the talent to beat any likely first round opponent

I'm starting to question this. Especially now that Castillo will be out for a while.
Yes, but he is expected back before the playoffs, which is what I was referring to in the statement you quoted... so why does Castillo's injury show that their talent level is questionable? :shrug:
Because they lost one of their actually talented players for at least six weeks. How is that hard to understand?I'm thinking the offensive line as a group isn't actually that talented and that they played somewhat over their heads last year, and now they've reverted to form, exacerbated by having to get accustomed to an entirely new coaching staff. As a group they're average to slightly above average.The DBs aren't good. Maybe Weddle and Cromartie will be someday, but right now it's a pretty sorry unit. Extremely bad.With the LBs, Wilhelm has been invisible out there - letting Edwards walk was a huge mistake. Cooper has been o.k. Phillips is good when he can get on the field. The most talented guy on the defense is being minimized by Ted's idiotic defensive scheme. Above average group only because of the outside linebackers, the middle is soft.The defensive line is a good unit, but it really hurts not having Castillo.Possibly the best punter in the league, and a top 10 kicker. Good special teams players like Osgood.The receivers were never anything to write home about, but at least McCardell and Parker caught the ball when you threw it to them - with one notable exception. One thing I did notice is that Naanee got playing time in the slot during the first half, made a play or two and then we never saw him again. WTF? Even with Chambers this is a below average unit.LaDainain and Antonio probably are the best at their positions, although this year it's not so clear in LaDainian's case. I'll still call RB and TE great.Then there's Phil. As I've said before he looks bad right now. I'm starting to become convinced that he's not NFL championship quality - what he did in college doesn't seem to be translating to the next level. His arm isn't great (to put it mildly), his release is poor, he doesn't have much mobility, so he can't afford to be making bad decisions, throwing ducks, fumbling, being inaccurate and losing his cool on a regular basis as he has been this season. In total I figure he's probably somewhere around the 11th to 14th best QB in the NFL, and I don't see him doing anything that makes me think he'll rise above that level right now. Average talent.I'd like to see your breakdown in regards to all the talent this team supposedly has.

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So Rivers sucks huh

Edited by RBM

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They have the talent to beat any likely first round opponent

I'm starting to question this. Especially now that Castillo will be out for a while.
Yes, but he is expected back before the playoffs, which is what I was referring to in the statement you quoted... so why does Castillo's injury show that their talent level is questionable? :moneybag:
Because they lost one of their actually talented players for at least six weeks. How is that hard to understand?
Because of how you quoted my post, I guess. My whole post you selectively quoted was this:

I think they are going to make the playoffs, given that they are the favorite in the division. So it comes down to winning one playoff game. They have the talent to beat any likely first round opponent, so I think it can happen. They still have half the season to pull it together and gain some momentum to carry into that game. We'll see.

Clearly, my comment about their talent referred to them being talented enough to beat any first round opponent in the playoffs (obviously first round implies not New England or Indy). Given that Castillo will be back for a first round playoff game, it doesn't make sense to cite his short term injury when questioning their talent, so it confused me.I see now that you are questioning the general statement about their talent.IMO they clearly have talent on offense... this is essentially the same unit on offense as the one that finished 1st in points per game and 4th in yards per game last season, with Chambers instead of McCardell and Parker. They are currently underperforming, or the coaches are calling offense poorly, or both, but I don't see it as a talent problem. And I think the offensive performance will improve over the second half.IMO they clearly have talent on defense... this unit is not too different than the unit that finished 7th in points allowed per game and 10th in yards allowed per game last season, despite significant injuries/missed time from starters. I know the LBs are weaker this season, but otherwise the talent is similar. They are currently underperforming, or the coaches are calling defense poorly, or both, but I don't see it as a talent problem. And I think the defensive performance will improve over the second half.I'm not sure how to effectively assess the quality of their special teams as a unit, but I think Kaeding is fine - he has only attempted 9 FGs, but that isn't really his fault, but he has kicked well with his opportunities. Scifres is 6th in punting average and 4th in net. The team is 4th best at defending kickoff returns and are between 12th and 18th at defending punts and returning kickoffs and punts. Perhaps their special teams aren't elite, but they are good enough. And as you pointed out, they have some good individual players like Osgood.I think it's just simply a difference between an optimist (me) and pessimist (you). :mellow: Edited by Just Win Baby

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I think it's just simply a difference between an optimist (me) and pessimist (you). :pickle:

Well stated.

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I think it's just simply a difference between an optimist (me) and pessimist (you). :thumbup:

Well stated.
That's a pretty fast change from before the season. Where's the guy that said;"Actually I think this year's core offensive players are better than last year's, some due to addition, some due to subtraction and some due to gaining more experience."and"I realize it's a high number, but I'd take the over on 492 this year barring significant injuries."Overly optimistic before the season began.Overly pessimistic now.

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I think it's just simply a difference between an optimist (me) and pessimist (you). :kicksrock:

Well stated.
That's a pretty fast change from before the season. Where's the guy that said;"Actually I think this year's core offensive players are better than last year's, some due to addition, some due to subtraction and some due to gaining more experience."and"I realize it's a high number, but I'd take the over on 492 this year barring significant injuries."Overly optimistic before the season began.Overly pessimistic now.
Also well stated. Suffice it to say I've been pretty shocked at how bad the team has played this year. They seem to have an uncanny knack for exposing all their weaknesses and minimizing all their strengths. I wonder what could make a thing like that happen....

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Horrible.

:rolleyes: He sure seemed intent on giving that game away, eh?WTF is Norv thinking protecting a lead by letting Rivers throw the ball? It's obvious that the Chargers's offensive problems are almost exclusively on the back of their woeful QB. Just turn him into a handoff/dumpoff machine.I liken the Chargers situation this year to the Vikings situation (assuming ADP is still healthy). Commit to running LT early and often and lean on special teams and defense to get the rest of it done. Had they done that last night they'd have won by a reasonable margin instead of on AV's choke.-=kwantam

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I can't believe a team with that much talent could play so poorly. They had the game handed to them, letterilly and while they won it's clear they should of lost. They will make the playoffs by default but they may not get past the first round.

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Rivers looked awful last night. Gates was awful last night - the last INT was his fault, not Rivers'. Norv was awful last night. Michael Turner was awful. The offensive line was awful.

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It's Billy Volek time

Think there's a chance of this? Rivers is not getting it done...
0 chance. Rivers is struggling, but he's not getting any help from his receivers or his OL.

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Rivers looked awful last night. Gates was awful last night - the last INT was his fault, not Rivers'. Norv was awful last night. Michael Turner was awful. The offensive line was awful.

Rivers has been struggling, and nobody is stepping up to help him. He obviously is not the kind of QB who can just win it on his own, he needs help to be successful. Nobody at the present time is helping him much, Michael Turner is a perfect example, a nice pass to him in stride to keep a crucial drive going is dropped brutally.

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Rivers looked awful last night. Gates was awful last night - the last INT was his fault, not Rivers'. Norv was awful last night. Michael Turner was awful. The offensive line was awful.

Rivers has been struggling, and nobody is stepping up to help him. He obviously is not the kind of QB who can just win it on his own, he needs help to be successful. Nobody at the present time is helping him much, Michael Turner is a perfect example, a nice pass to him in stride to keep a crucial drive going is dropped brutally.
Yep. Dropped passes that would have resulted in first downs are essentially turnovers. Turner had 10-15 yards of open field in front of him on that play, and Rivers' pass hit him in full stride.

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Rivers looked awful last night. Gates was awful last night - the last INT was his fault, not Rivers'. Norv was awful last night. Michael Turner was awful. The offensive line was awful.

Norv and Rivers are getting all the blame, because the coach and the QB always do, but outside of Gates, not a single player on offense is playing as well as last year. Now I think Norv should get a lot of the blame for that. When one player regresses, it's probably the player's fault. When the whole team does, there's something else going on.

Rivers has been terrible lately. He's not stepping into his throws consistently. He is not making his reads as confidently as he did last year. But a lot of that is due to the pass rush, as well. There are a lot of QBs who look great when they have time in the pocket, but look bad when they are facing constant pressure. I think it also hurts that McCardell and Parker are both unavailable this year. They don't have the big-play ability of Jackson or Chambers or Davis, but they were always in the right place at the right time and had reliable hands (except against the Patriots). The short passing game has fallen apart, and I think the mix of WRs has something to do with that.

Rivers has been bad, but he is still the future. If this team wins a few playoff games in the near future, it will be with Rivers. The team has to get him playing better, and letting him play his way out of it is probably the right tactic. That said, while Volek is no great shakes, he is better than Rivers has been playing. So if the team needs a temporary spark, Volek may be able to fit that role. I wouldn't completely rule it out.

Anyway, I mostly just wanted to agree with tommyGunZ in spreading the blame around. There's plenty for everyone.

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Rivers looked awful last night. Gates was awful last night - the last INT was his fault, not Rivers'. Norv was awful last night. Michael Turner was awful. The offensive line was awful.

Rivers has been struggling, and nobody is stepping up to help him. He obviously is not the kind of QB who can just win it on his own, he needs help to be successful. Nobody at the present time is helping him much, Michael Turner is a perfect example, a nice pass to him in stride to keep a crucial drive going is dropped brutally.
Yep. Dropped passes that would have resulted in first downs are essentially turnovers. Turner had 10-15 yards of open field in front of him on that play, and Rivers' pass hit him in full stride.
Actually neither interception was Rivers fault, I'd hardly call the ball rolling down a players leg and being picked out of the air before it hits the ground his fault. He didn't play well in the game but he also didn't have six TO's. In the end the Chargers simply made fewer HUGE mistakes to lose the game.Manning played just as badly. This game is a shining example of why FF scoring is idiotic. Who cares if you throw for 300 yards and a TD if you turn the ball over SIX times!?

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It's Billy Volek time

Think there's a chance of this? Rivers is not getting it done...
zero % chance.
OK I was just wondering if I could make a shark move and get a starting QB. Rivers is killing me

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I can't believe a team with that much talent could play so poorly. They had the game handed to them, letterilly and while they won it's clear they should of lost.

If SD played that poorly, then didn't INDY have the game handed to them?

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It's Billy Volek time

Think there's a chance of this? Rivers is not getting it done...
zero % chance.
OK I was just wondering if I could make a shark move and get a starting QB. Rivers is killing me
INDY is the #2 passing defense in the NFL.Rivers had a very poor outing vs MIN last week and his OL hasn't been playing well at all.I'm a Rivers-believer in the long term but I think the shark move would have been to acquire an alternative vs INDY at least. I'd expect a better performance vs JAX however.

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Rivers looked awful last night. Gates was awful last night - the last INT was his fault, not Rivers'. Norv was awful last night. Michael Turner was awful. The offensive line was awful.

Norv and Rivers are getting all the blame, because the coach and the QB always do, but outside of Gates, not a single player on offense is playing as well as last year. Now I think Norv should get a lot of the blame for that. When one player regresses, it's probably the player's fault. When the whole team does, there's something else going on.

Rivers has been terrible lately. He's not stepping into his throws consistently. He is not making his reads as confidently as he did last year. But a lot of that is due to the pass rush, as well. There are a lot of QBs who look great when they have time in the pocket, but look bad when they are facing constant pressure. I think it also hurts that McCardell and Parker are both unavailable this year. They don't have the big-play ability of Jackson or Chambers or Davis, but they were always in the right place at the right time and had reliable hands (except against the Patriots). The short passing game has fallen apart, and I think the mix of WRs has something to do with that.

Rivers has been bad, but he is still the future. If this team wins a few playoff games in the near future, it will be with Rivers. The team has to get him playing better, and letting him play his way out of it is probably the right tactic. That said, while Volek is no great shakes, he is better than Rivers has been playing. So if the team needs a temporary spark, Volek may be able to fit that role. I wouldn't completely rule it out.

Anyway, I mostly just wanted to agree with tommyGunZ in spreading the blame around. There's plenty for everyone.

Maybe the players don't respect who they're playing for. That could be Turner or the coordinators or even the GM. When a GM plays the way AJ does you either repsect him or fear him. You respect a man for his principals, values and beliefs. You fear a man that will fire a guy that the players respect. You fear a man that will fire a guy who is largely successful and that had led his team to great accomplishments with more on the horizon. It may be possible that the players no longer respect the leadership in place and that might explain why they are underperforming.

Granted this is a just an opion of what might be happening and we may never know for sure. But there's not much else to point to because we've all agreed they are talented and should be playing better. If you want to blame Norv then you have to pass that up to AJ as well. Afterall, he's the one that wanted Marty gone and he's the one that put Norv in place. Heck you can even pin some of this on Rivers. But once again you have to pass that on up to AJ because he's the one that wanted Rivers to be the QB. AJ has set this team up the way he wantes it and now we see how that's working out.

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Rivers looked awful last night. Gates was awful last night - the last INT was his fault, not Rivers'. Norv was awful last night. Michael Turner was awful. The offensive line was awful.

Norv and Rivers are getting all the blame, because the coach and the QB always do, but outside of Gates, not a single player on offense is playing as well as last year. Now I think Norv should get a lot of the blame for that. When one player regresses, it's probably the player's fault. When the whole team does, there's something else going on.

Rivers has been terrible lately. He's not stepping into his throws consistently. He is not making his reads as confidently as he did last year. But a lot of that is due to the pass rush, as well. There are a lot of QBs who look great when they have time in the pocket, but look bad when they are facing constant pressure. I think it also hurts that McCardell and Parker are both unavailable this year. They don't have the big-play ability of Jackson or Chambers or Davis, but they were always in the right place at the right time and had reliable hands (except against the Patriots). The short passing game has fallen apart, and I think the mix of WRs has something to do with that.

Rivers has been bad, but he is still the future. If this team wins a few playoff games in the near future, it will be with Rivers. The team has to get him playing better, and letting him play his way out of it is probably the right tactic. That said, while Volek is no great shakes, he is better than Rivers has been playing. So if the team needs a temporary spark, Volek may be able to fit that role. I wouldn't completely rule it out.

Anyway, I mostly just wanted to agree with tommyGunZ in spreading the blame around. There's plenty for everyone.

Maybe the players don't respect who they're playing for. That could be Turner or the coordinators or even the GM. When a GM plays the way AJ does you either repsect him or fear him. You respect a man for his principals, values and beliefs. You fear a man that will fire a guy that the players respect. You fear a man that will fire a guy who is largely successful and that had led his team to great accomplishments with more on the horizon. It may be possible that the players no longer respect the leadership in place and that might explain why they are underperforming.

Granted this is a just an opion of what might be happening and we may never know for sure. But there's not much else to point to because we've all agreed they are talented and should be playing better. If you want to blame Norv then you have to pass that up to AJ as well. Afterall, he's the one that wanted Marty gone and he's the one that put Norv in place. Heck you can even pin some of this on Rivers. But once again you have to pass that on up to AJ because he's the one that wanted Rivers to be the QB. AJ has set this team up the way he wantes it and now we see how that's working out.

:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

Jesus Christ Mrs Schottenheimer give it a rest already

Time to move on to the Bears and Ravens GM already. Those two teams were just as elite as the Chargers last year and are playing much worse now.

Maybe you should write on why you think Drew Brees couldn't beat the at the time winless Rams.

Edited by Mr. PadresLakers

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Rivers looked awful last night. Gates was awful last night - the last INT was his fault, not Rivers'. Norv was awful last night. Michael Turner was awful. The offensive line was awful.

Norv and Rivers are getting all the blame, because the coach and the QB always do, but outside of Gates, not a single player on offense is playing as well as last year. Now I think Norv should get a lot of the blame for that. When one player regresses, it's probably the player's fault. When the whole team does, there's something else going on.

Rivers has been terrible lately. He's not stepping into his throws consistently. He is not making his reads as confidently as he did last year. But a lot of that is due to the pass rush, as well. There are a lot of QBs who look great when they have time in the pocket, but look bad when they are facing constant pressure. I think it also hurts that McCardell and Parker are both unavailable this year. They don't have the big-play ability of Jackson or Chambers or Davis, but they were always in the right place at the right time and had reliable hands (except against the Patriots). The short passing game has fallen apart, and I think the mix of WRs has something to do with that.

Rivers has been bad, but he is still the future. If this team wins a few playoff games in the near future, it will be with Rivers. The team has to get him playing better, and letting him play his way out of it is probably the right tactic. That said, while Volek is no great shakes, he is better than Rivers has been playing. So if the team needs a temporary spark, Volek may be able to fit that role. I wouldn't completely rule it out.

Anyway, I mostly just wanted to agree with tommyGunZ in spreading the blame around. There's plenty for everyone.

Maybe the players don't respect who they're playing for. That could be Turner or the coordinators or even the GM. When a GM plays the way AJ does you either repsect him or fear him. You respect a man for his principals, values and beliefs. You fear a man that will fire a guy that the players respect. You fear a man that will fire a guy who is largely successful and that had led his team to great accomplishments with more on the horizon. It may be possible that the players no longer respect the leadership in place and that might explain why they are underperforming.

Granted this is a just an opion of what might be happening and we may never know for sure. But there's not much else to point to because we've all agreed they are talented and should be playing better. If you want to blame Norv then you have to pass that up to AJ as well. Afterall, he's the one that wanted Marty gone and he's the one that put Norv in place. Heck you can even pin some of this on Rivers. But once again you have to pass that on up to AJ because he's the one that wanted Rivers to be the QB. AJ has set this team up the way he wantes it and now we see how that's working out.

Stop it, lets not turn the Rivers Sucks thread into a firing Marty thread. There are plenty of those.

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But a lot of that is due to the pass rush, as well. There are a lot of QBs who look great when they have time in the pocket, but look bad when they are facing constant pressure.

What's your take on Marcus McNeil? He was the golden child last season and played so far above everyones expectations and this year he looks like a completely different guy to me. Is there some injury that's not being talked about? Are edge rushers exploiting a weakness they've found against him? Did he stop working hard last summer after getting all the positive publicity last season? I can't believe how fast the level of his play has fallen in a year.

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Rivers looked awful last night. Gates was awful last night - the last INT was his fault, not Rivers'. Norv was awful last night. Michael Turner was awful. The offensive line was awful.

Norv and Rivers are getting all the blame, because the coach and the QB always do, but outside of Gates, not a single player on offense is playing as well as last year. Now I think Norv should get a lot of the blame for that. When one player regresses, it's probably the player's fault. When the whole team does, there's something else going on.

Rivers has been terrible lately. He's not stepping into his throws consistently. He is not making his reads as confidently as he did last year. But a lot of that is due to the pass rush, as well. There are a lot of QBs who look great when they have time in the pocket, but look bad when they are facing constant pressure. I think it also hurts that McCardell and Parker are both unavailable this year. They don't have the big-play ability of Jackson or Chambers or Davis, but they were always in the right place at the right time and had reliable hands (except against the Patriots). The short passing game has fallen apart, and I think the mix of WRs has something to do with that.

Rivers has been bad, but he is still the future. If this team wins a few playoff games in the near future, it will be with Rivers. The team has to get him playing better, and letting him play his way out of it is probably the right tactic. That said, while Volek is no great shakes, he is better than Rivers has been playing. So if the team needs a temporary spark, Volek may be able to fit that role. I wouldn't completely rule it out.

Anyway, I mostly just wanted to agree with tommyGunZ in spreading the blame around. There's plenty for everyone.

Maybe the players don't respect who they're playing for. That could be Turner or the coordinators or even the GM. When a GM plays the way AJ does you either repsect him or fear him. You respect a man for his principals, values and beliefs. You fear a man that will fire a guy that the players respect. You fear a man that will fire a guy who is largely successful and that had led his team to great accomplishments with more on the horizon. It may be possible that the players no longer respect the leadership in place and that might explain why they are underperforming.

Granted this is a just an opion of what might be happening and we may never know for sure. But there's not much else to point to because we've all agreed they are talented and should be playing better. If you want to blame Norv then you have to pass that up to AJ as well. Afterall, he's the one that wanted Marty gone and he's the one that put Norv in place. Heck you can even pin some of this on Rivers. But once again you have to pass that on up to AJ because he's the one that wanted Rivers to be the QB. AJ has set this team up the way he wantes it and now we see how that's working out.

well they are in first place, all be it in a weak division. The norv & brees thing is what bugs me about AJ the most. But besides the KC game I really dont see how they could have won the GB,NE or Minny game, plus they got a gift from a banged up Colts team last nite.

this is a .500 team in a weak division with a coach that is a horrible motivator.

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Rivers looked awful last night. Gates was awful last night - the last INT was his fault, not Rivers'. Norv was awful last night. Michael Turner was awful. The offensive line was awful.

Norv and Rivers are getting all the blame, because the coach and the QB always do, but outside of Gates, not a single player on offense is playing as well as last year. Now I think Norv should get a lot of the blame for that. When one player regresses, it's probably the player's fault. When the whole team does, there's something else going on.

Rivers has been terrible lately. He's not stepping into his throws consistently. He is not making his reads as confidently as he did last year. But a lot of that is due to the pass rush, as well. There are a lot of QBs who look great when they have time in the pocket, but look bad when they are facing constant pressure. I think it also hurts that McCardell and Parker are both unavailable this year. They don't have the big-play ability of Jackson or Chambers or Davis, but they were always in the right place at the right time and had reliable hands (except against the Patriots). The short passing game has fallen apart, and I think the mix of WRs has something to do with that.

Rivers has been bad, but he is still the future. If this team wins a few playoff games in the near future, it will be with Rivers. The team has to get him playing better, and letting him play his way out of it is probably the right tactic. That said, while Volek is no great shakes, he is better than Rivers has been playing. So if the team needs a temporary spark, Volek may be able to fit that role. I wouldn't completely rule it out.

Anyway, I mostly just wanted to agree with tommyGunZ in spreading the blame around. There's plenty for everyone.

Maybe the players don't respect who they're playing for. That could be Turner or the coordinators or even the GM. When a GM plays the way AJ does you either repsect him or fear him. You respect a man for his principals, values and beliefs. You fear a man that will fire a guy that the players respect. You fear a man that will fire a guy who is largely successful and that had led his team to great accomplishments with more on the horizon. It may be possible that the players no longer respect the leadership in place and that might explain why they are underperforming.

Granted this is a just an opion of what might be happening and we may never know for sure. But there's not much else to point to because we've all agreed they are talented and should be playing better. If you want to blame Norv then you have to pass that up to AJ as well. Afterall, he's the one that wanted Marty gone and he's the one that put Norv in place. Heck you can even pin some of this on Rivers. But once again you have to pass that on up to AJ because he's the one that wanted Rivers to be the QB. AJ has set this team up the way he wantes it and now we see how that's working out.

Here's how it's working out: the Chargers, despite their struggles, are in first place in their division and just beat the World Champions. 2 of their 4 losses are on the road to NE and GB, who are a combined 17-1 this year.

Since AJ became the GM and "set the team up the way he wants it", the Chargers have been quickly transformed from NFL laughingstock to one of the most talented and successful franchises in the NFL. The Chargers are extremely young, talented, and all the key components are locked up to long term deals and the Bolts are under the salary cap.

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Rivers looked awful last night. Gates was awful last night - the last INT was his fault, not Rivers'. Norv was awful last night. Michael Turner was awful. The offensive line was awful.

Norv and Rivers are getting all the blame, because the coach and the QB always do, but outside of Gates, not a single player on offense is playing as well as last year. Now I think Norv should get a lot of the blame for that. When one player regresses, it's probably the player's fault. When the whole team does, there's something else going on.

Rivers has been terrible lately. He's not stepping into his throws consistently. He is not making his reads as confidently as he did last year. But a lot of that is due to the pass rush, as well. There are a lot of QBs who look great when they have time in the pocket, but look bad when they are facing constant pressure. I think it also hurts that McCardell and Parker are both unavailable this year. They don't have the big-play ability of Jackson or Chambers or Davis, but they were always in the right place at the right time and had reliable hands (except against the Patriots). The short passing game has fallen apart, and I think the mix of WRs has something to do with that.

Rivers has been bad, but he is still the future. If this team wins a few playoff games in the near future, it will be with Rivers. The team has to get him playing better, and letting him play his way out of it is probably the right tactic. That said, while Volek is no great shakes, he is better than Rivers has been playing. So if the team needs a temporary spark, Volek may be able to fit that role. I wouldn't completely rule it out.

Anyway, I mostly just wanted to agree with tommyGunZ in spreading the blame around. There's plenty for everyone.

Maybe the players don't respect who they're playing for. That could be Turner or the coordinators or even the GM. When a GM plays the way AJ does you either repsect him or fear him. You respect a man for his principals, values and beliefs. You fear a man that will fire a guy that the players respect. You fear a man that will fire a guy who is largely successful and that had led his team to great accomplishments with more on the horizon. It may be possible that the players no longer respect the leadership in place and that might explain why they are underperforming.

Granted this is a just an opion of what might be happening and we may never know for sure. But there's not much else to point to because we've all agreed they are talented and should be playing better. If you want to blame Norv then you have to pass that up to AJ as well. Afterall, he's the one that wanted Marty gone and he's the one that put Norv in place. Heck you can even pin some of this on Rivers. But once again you have to pass that on up to AJ because he's the one that wanted Rivers to be the QB. AJ has set this team up the way he wantes it and now we see how that's working out.

Here's how it's working out: the Chargers, despite their struggles, are in first place in their division and just beat the World Champions. 2 of their 4 losses are on the road to NE and GB, who are a combined 17-1 this year.

Since AJ became the GM and "set the team up the way he wants it", the Chargers have been quickly transformed from NFL laughingstock to one of the most talented and successful franchises in the NFL. The Chargers are extremely young, talented, and all the key components are locked up to long term deals and the Bolts are under the salary cap.

Can't argue excpet for that fact that Marty was the coach that led this team to the wins. And now that he's gone, everyone agree they are not as good. It's painfully evident that they aren't likely to win in the playoffs either. At least not the way they've been playing.

So while your look back is partly correct, you seem to want to give AJ all the credit and shield him from the problems that have become pretty obvious. But hey, like you said, they're in first place so they everything must be great. :lmao:

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Can't argue excpet for that fact that Marty was the coach that led this team to the wins. And now that he's gone, everyone agree they are not as good. It's painfully evident that they aren't likely to win in the playoffs either. At least not the way they've been playing.

You can't prove it wasn't all Randall Godfrey. Last year WITH Randall Godfrey SD was 14-2 and now they WITHOUT him are just above .500. Someone sign that guy to a franchise contract already! He's worth 5 wins by himself!

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Rivers looked awful last night. Gates was awful last night - the last INT was his fault, not Rivers'. Norv was awful last night. Michael Turner was awful. The offensive line was awful.

Norv and Rivers are getting all the blame, because the coach and the QB always do, but outside of Gates, not a single player on offense is playing as well as last year. Now I think Norv should get a lot of the blame for that. When one player regresses, it's probably the player's fault. When the whole team does, there's something else going on.

Rivers has been terrible lately. He's not stepping into his throws consistently. He is not making his reads as confidently as he did last year. But a lot of that is due to the pass rush, as well. There are a lot of QBs who look great when they have time in the pocket, but look bad when they are facing constant pressure. I think it also hurts that McCardell and Parker are both unavailable this year. They don't have the big-play ability of Jackson or Chambers or Davis, but they were always in the right place at the right time and had reliable hands (except against the Patriots). The short passing game has fallen apart, and I think the mix of WRs has something to do with that.

Rivers has been bad, but he is still the future. If this team wins a few playoff games in the near future, it will be with Rivers. The team has to get him playing better, and letting him play his way out of it is probably the right tactic. That said, while Volek is no great shakes, he is better than Rivers has been playing. So if the team needs a temporary spark, Volek may be able to fit that role. I wouldn't completely rule it out.

Anyway, I mostly just wanted to agree with tommyGunZ in spreading the blame around. There's plenty for everyone.

Maybe the players don't respect who they're playing for. That could be Turner or the coordinators or even the GM. When a GM plays the way AJ does you either repsect him or fear him. You respect a man for his principals, values and beliefs. You fear a man that will fire a guy that the players respect. You fear a man that will fire a guy who is largely successful and that had led his team to great accomplishments with more on the horizon. It may be possible that the players no longer respect the leadership in place and that might explain why they are underperforming.

Granted this is a just an opion of what might be happening and we may never know for sure. But there's not much else to point to because we've all agreed they are talented and should be playing better. If you want to blame Norv then you have to pass that up to AJ as well. Afterall, he's the one that wanted Marty gone and he's the one that put Norv in place. Heck you can even pin some of this on Rivers. But once again you have to pass that on up to AJ because he's the one that wanted Rivers to be the QB. AJ has set this team up the way he wantes it and now we see how that's working out.

Here's how it's working out: the Chargers, despite their struggles, are in first place in their division and just beat the World Champions. 2 of their 4 losses are on the road to NE and GB, who are a combined 17-1 this year.

Since AJ became the GM and "set the team up the way he wants it", the Chargers have been quickly transformed from NFL laughingstock to one of the most talented and successful franchises in the NFL. The Chargers are extremely young, talented, and all the key components are locked up to long term deals and the Bolts are under the salary cap.

Can't argue excpet for that fact that Marty was the coach that led this team to the wins. And now that he's gone, everyone agree they are not as good. It's painfully evident that they aren't likely to win in the playoffs either. At least not the way they've been playing.

So while your look back is partly correct, you seem to want to give AJ all the credit and shield him from the problems that have become pretty obvious. But hey, like you said, they're in first place so they everything must be great. :towelwave:

It's not like Marty is the only one who is gone from last year. Greg Manusky and Rob Chudzinski were allowed to get away as well, you know.

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Can't argue excpet for that fact that Marty was the coach that led this team to the wins. And now that he's gone, everyone agree they are not as good. It's painfully evident that they aren't likely to win in the playoffs either. At least not the way they've been playing.

You can't prove it wasn't all Randall Godfrey. Last year WITH Randall Godfrey SD was 14-2 and now they WITHOUT him are just above .500. Someone sign that guy to a franchise contract already! He's worth 5 wins by himself!
:lmao: And you're serious? :lmao:

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Can't argue excpet for that fact that Marty was the coach that led this team to the wins. And now that he's gone, everyone agree they are not as good. It's painfully evident that they aren't likely to win in the playoffs either. At least not the way they've been playing.

You can't prove it wasn't all Randall Godfrey. Last year WITH Randall Godfrey SD was 14-2 and now they WITHOUT him are just above .500. Someone sign that guy to a franchise contract already! He's worth 5 wins by himself!
:P And you're serious? ;)
You mean it's a silly argument? There are many factors that have changed with the team(some in their control, several out of their control) and picking just one and repeating over and over and over that that one factor is the sole reason for a difference in play would be simple minded? Is that what you're telling me?Huh.

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I traded for Rivers 3 weeks ago figuring that LT, the addition of Chambers and River's increasing experience would result in a good 2nd half.

Boy do I feel dumb.

His passes just seem to float or are behind the receivers.

The one week he threw 3 TDs, it was mainly good catches by Gates that built his stats.

:goodposting:

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Can't argue excpet for that fact that Marty was the coach that led this team to the wins. And now that he's gone, everyone agree they are not as good. It's painfully evident that they aren't likely to win in the playoffs either. At least not the way they've been playing.

You can't prove it wasn't all Randall Godfrey. Last year WITH Randall Godfrey SD was 14-2 and now they WITHOUT him are just above .500. Someone sign that guy to a franchise contract already! He's worth 5 wins by himself!
:mellow: And you're serious? :lmao:
You mean it's a silly argument? There are many factors that have changed with the team(some in their control, several out of their control) and picking just one and repeating over and over and over that that one factor is the sole reason for a difference in play would be simple minded? Is that what you're telling me?

Huh.

I know there are a few of you guys that will defend AJ to the death so I guess it's not surprising that when things have gone wrong you would rather just make stuff up rather face the reality of what's happening.

The many factors you refernece are most all driven by AJ. It's been well documented that AJ built this team. Some have even argued that he was the reason for their turn around. Not the coaches. You guys said AJ is the reason for their recent success. Well if that's the case then he must also be the reason they are performing miserably now. BTW-I wasn't buying it then and I'm really buying that now. It takes an entire team to accompish and fail.

But please quit making excuses because this is AJ's team. He has rid the team of players and coaches he doesn't want. He has put the people in place he wants to on this team, say for the head coach because he had to settle on that one but that's his fault too. And when he wins the SB or AFC Championship I will say the same thing. He's made this a team the begins and ends with him. So be it.

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Can't argue excpet for that fact that Marty was the coach that led this team to the wins. And now that he's gone, everyone agree they are not as good. It's painfully evident that they aren't likely to win in the playoffs either. At least not the way they've been playing.

You can't prove it wasn't all Randall Godfrey. Last year WITH Randall Godfrey SD was 14-2 and now they WITHOUT him are just above .500. Someone sign that guy to a franchise contract already! He's worth 5 wins by himself!
:lmao: And you're serious? :lmao:
You mean it's a silly argument? There are many factors that have changed with the team(some in their control, several out of their control) and picking just one and repeating over and over and over that that one factor is the sole reason for a difference in play would be simple minded? Is that what you're telling me?

Huh.

I know there are a few of you guys that will defend AJ to the death so I guess it's not surprising that when things have gone wrong you would rather just make stuff up rather face the reality of what's happening.

The many factors you refernece are most all driven by AJ. It's been well documented that AJ built this team. Some have even argued that he was the reason for their turn around. Not the coaches. You guys said AJ is the reason for their recent success. Well if that's the case then he must also be the reason they are performing miserably now. BTW-I wasn't buying it then and I'm really buying that now. It takes an entire team to accompish and fail.

But please quit making excuses because this is AJ's team. He has rid the team of players and coaches he doesn't want. He has put the people in place he wants to on this team, say for the head coach because he had to settle on that one but that's his fault too. And when he wins the SB or AFC Championship I will say the same thing. He's made this a team the begins and ends with him. So be it.

:goodposting:

AJ forced the Cowboys to offer Wade Phillips a head coaching job

He forced the Dolphins to offer Cam Cameron a head coaching job too

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Can't argue excpet for that fact that Marty was the coach that led this team to the wins. And now that he's gone, everyone agree they are not as good. It's painfully evident that they aren't likely to win in the playoffs either. At least not the way they've been playing.

You can't prove it wasn't all Randall Godfrey. Last year WITH Randall Godfrey SD was 14-2 and now they WITHOUT him are just above .500. Someone sign that guy to a franchise contract already! He's worth 5 wins by himself!
:confused: And you're serious? :rant:
You mean it's a silly argument? There are many factors that have changed with the team(some in their control, several out of their control) and picking just one and repeating over and over and over that that one factor is the sole reason for a difference in play would be simple minded? Is that what you're telling me?

Huh.

I know there are a few of you guys that will defend AJ to the death so I guess it's not surprising that when things have gone wrong you would rather just make stuff up rather face the reality of what's happening.

The many factors you refernece are most all driven by AJ. It's been well documented that AJ built this team. Some have even argued that he was the reason for their turn around. Not the coaches. You guys said AJ is the reason for their recent success. Well if that's the case then he must also be the reason they are performing miserably now. BTW-I wasn't buying it then and I'm really buying that now. It takes an entire team to accompish and fail.

But please quit making excuses because this is AJ's team. He has rid the team of players and coaches he doesn't want. He has put the people in place he wants to on this team, say for the head coach because he had to settle on that one but that's his fault too. And when he wins the SB or AFC Championship I will say the same thing. He's made this a team the begins and ends with him. So be it.

:confused:

AJ forced the Cowboys to offer Wade Phillips a head coaching job

He forced the Dolphins to offer Cam Cameron a head coaching job too

What are you talking about? They were getting jobs somewhere no matter what. Not sure where you see this fitting into what I said. OTOH-It would be interesting to see if things would have turned out differently if one of these guys became the head coach. Less change is always good for a team.

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Can't argue excpet for that fact that Marty was the coach that led this team to the wins. And now that he's gone, everyone agree they are not as good. It's painfully evident that they aren't likely to win in the playoffs either. At least not the way they've been playing.

You can't prove it wasn't all Randall Godfrey. Last year WITH Randall Godfrey SD was 14-2 and now they WITHOUT him are just above .500. Someone sign that guy to a franchise contract already! He's worth 5 wins by himself!
:lmao: And you're serious? :excited:
You mean it's a silly argument? There are many factors that have changed with the team(some in their control, several out of their control) and picking just one and repeating over and over and over that that one factor is the sole reason for a difference in play would be simple minded? Is that what you're telling me?

Huh.

I know there are a few of you guys that will defend AJ to the death so I guess it's not surprising that when things have gone wrong you would rather just make stuff up rather face the reality of what's happening.

The many factors you refernece are most all driven by AJ. It's been well documented that AJ built this team. Some have even argued that he was the reason for their turn around. Not the coaches. You guys said AJ is the reason for their recent success. Well if that's the case then he must also be the reason they are performing miserably now. BTW-I wasn't buying it then and I'm really buying that now. It takes an entire team to accompish and fail.

But please quit making excuses because this is AJ's team. He has rid the team of players and coaches he doesn't want. He has put the people in place he wants to on this team, say for the head coach because he had to settle on that one but that's his fault too. And when he wins the SB or AFC Championship I will say the same thing. He's made this a team the begins and ends with him. So be it.

:yes:

AJ forced the Cowboys to offer Wade Phillips a head coaching job

He forced the Dolphins to offer Cam Cameron a head coaching job too

What are you talking about? They were getting jobs somewhere no matter what. Not sure where you see this fitting into what I said. OTOH-It would be interesting to see if things would have turned out differently if one of these guys became the head coach. Less change is always good for a team.
:lmao:

I definitely agree with you. I don't know why AJ Smith forced them out.

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Can't argue excpet for that fact that Marty was the coach that led this team to the wins. And now that he's gone, everyone agree they are not as good. It's painfully evident that they aren't likely to win in the playoffs either. At least not the way they've been playing.

You can't prove it wasn't all Randall Godfrey. Last year WITH Randall Godfrey SD was 14-2 and now they WITHOUT him are just above .500. Someone sign that guy to a franchise contract already! He's worth 5 wins by himself!
:excited: And you're serious? :goodposting:
You mean it's a silly argument? There are many factors that have changed with the team(some in their control, several out of their control) and picking just one and repeating over and over and over that that one factor is the sole reason for a difference in play would be simple minded? Is that what you're telling me?

Huh.

I know there are a few of you guys that will defend AJ to the death so I guess it's not surprising that when things have gone wrong you would rather just make stuff up rather face the reality of what's happening.

The many factors you refernece are most all driven by AJ. It's been well documented that AJ built this team. Some have even argued that he was the reason for their turn around. Not the coaches. You guys said AJ is the reason for their recent success. Well if that's the case then he must also be the reason they are performing miserably now. BTW-I wasn't buying it then and I'm really buying that now. It takes an entire team to accompish and fail.

But please quit making excuses because this is AJ's team. He has rid the team of players and coaches he doesn't want. He has put the people in place he wants to on this team, say for the head coach because he had to settle on that one but that's his fault too. And when he wins the SB or AFC Championship I will say the same thing. He's made this a team the begins and ends with him. So be it.

:thumbdown:

AJ forced the Cowboys to offer Wade Phillips a head coaching job

He forced the Dolphins to offer Cam Cameron a head coaching job too

What are you talking about? They were getting jobs somewhere no matter what. Not sure where you see this fitting into what I said.
So you are saying that if AJ wanted Cam as OC, Wade as DC and Marty as HC... if those are the coaches he wanted... it wasn't his option to keep them or not?

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Can't argue excpet for that fact that Marty was the coach that led this team to the wins. And now that he's gone, everyone agree they are not as good. It's painfully evident that they aren't likely to win in the playoffs either. At least not the way they've been playing.

You can't prove it wasn't all Randall Godfrey. Last year WITH Randall Godfrey SD was 14-2 and now they WITHOUT him are just above .500. Someone sign that guy to a franchise contract already! He's worth 5 wins by himself!
:lmao: And you're serious? :rolleyes:
You mean it's a silly argument? There are many factors that have changed with the team(some in their control, several out of their control) and picking just one and repeating over and over and over that that one factor is the sole reason for a difference in play would be simple minded? Is that what you're telling me?

Huh.

I know there are a few of you guys that will defend AJ to the death so I guess it's not surprising that when things have gone wrong you would rather just make stuff up rather face the reality of what's happening.

The many factors you refernece are most all driven by AJ. It's been well documented that AJ built this team. Some have even argued that he was the reason for their turn around. Not the coaches. You guys said AJ is the reason for their recent success. Well if that's the case then he must also be the reason they are performing miserably now. BTW-I wasn't buying it then and I'm really buying that now. It takes an entire team to accompish and fail.

But please quit making excuses because this is AJ's team. He has rid the team of players and coaches he doesn't want. He has put the people in place he wants to on this team, say for the head coach because he had to settle on that one but that's his fault too. And when he wins the SB or AFC Championship I will say the same thing. He's made this a team the begins and ends with him. So be it.

:yucky:

AJ forced the Cowboys to offer Wade Phillips a head coaching job

He forced the Dolphins to offer Cam Cameron a head coaching job too

What are you talking about? They were getting jobs somewhere no matter what. Not sure where you see this fitting into what I said.
So you are saying that if AJ wanted Cam as OC, Wade as DC and Marty as HC... if those are the coaches he wanted... it wasn't his option to keep them or not?
Not following you or what your point is. The part AJ had total control over was Marty. He could have supported him and given him what he needed in order to HELP THE TEAM. That's what happens with most teams. The coach is openly supported by the GM and given the resources and opportunity to do what he needs to get wins. But that's not what happened. That support wasn't there. And AJ made more bad decisions and made it worse because he didn't manage to keep either coordinator even though he wasn't supporting his HC. He knew where was leading. It's bad enough that he worked agaisnt his coach but he didn't protect the team's best interest when he failed to act in order to keep 1 of their coordinators as a possible replacement. Now the team chemistry appears damaged. They are not responding well to the changes and that's on AJ.

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AJ made more bad decisions and made it worse because he didn't manage to keep either coordinator even though he wasn't supporting his HC.

So now AJ is wrong because he didn't get Marty fired fast enough to keep one of his coordinators and he's wrong for getting Marty fired. Got it.

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Can't argue excpet for that fact that Marty was the coach that led this team to the wins. And now that he's gone, everyone agree they are not as good. It's painfully evident that they aren't likely to win in the playoffs either. At least not the way they've been playing.

You can't prove it wasn't all Randall Godfrey. Last year WITH Randall Godfrey SD was 14-2 and now they WITHOUT him are just above .500. Someone sign that guy to a franchise contract already! He's worth 5 wins by himself!
:lmao: And you're serious? :lmao:
You mean it's a silly argument? There are many factors that have changed with the team(some in their control, several out of their control) and picking just one and repeating over and over and over that that one factor is the sole reason for a difference in play would be simple minded? Is that what you're telling me?

Huh.

I know there are a few of you guys that will defend AJ to the death so I guess it's not surprising that when things have gone wrong you would rather just make stuff up rather face the reality of what's happening.

The many factors you refernece are most all driven by AJ. It's been well documented that AJ built this team. Some have even argued that he was the reason for their turn around. Not the coaches. You guys said AJ is the reason for their recent success. Well if that's the case then he must also be the reason they are performing miserably now. BTW-I wasn't buying it then and I'm really buying that now. It takes an entire team to accompish and fail.

But please quit making excuses because this is AJ's team. He has rid the team of players and coaches he doesn't want. He has put the people in place he wants to on this team, say for the head coach because he had to settle on that one but that's his fault too. And when he wins the SB or AFC Championship I will say the same thing. He's made this a team the begins and ends with him. So be it.

:goodposting:

AJ forced the Cowboys to offer Wade Phillips a head coaching job

He forced the Dolphins to offer Cam Cameron a head coaching job too

What are you talking about? They were getting jobs somewhere no matter what. Not sure where you see this fitting into what I said.
So you are saying that if AJ wanted Cam as OC, Wade as DC and Marty as HC... if those are the coaches he wanted... it wasn't his option to keep them or not?
Not following you or what your point is. The part AJ had total control over was Marty. He could have supported him and given him what he needed in order to HELP THE TEAM. That's what happens with most teams. The coach is openly supported by the GM and given the resources and opportunity to do what he needs to get wins. But that's not what happened. That support wasn't there. And AJ made more bad decisions and made it worse because he didn't manage to keep either coordinator even though he wasn't supporting his HC. He knew where was leading. It's bad enough that he worked agaisnt his coach but he didn't protect the team's best interest when he failed to act in order to keep 1 of their coordinators as a possible replacement. Now the team chemistry appears damaged. They are not responding well to the changes and that's on AJ.
:goodposting:

Why would Cameron or Phillips stick around if they knew he had to deal with AJ Smith's big ego. They would have taken lesser jobs with other teams just to get away from AJ Smith and his huge ego.

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He knew where was leading. It's bad enough that he worked agaisnt his coach but he didn't protect the team's best interest when he failed to act in order to keep 1 of their coordinators as a possible replacement. Now the team chemistry appears damaged. They are not responding well to the changes and that's on AJ.

If either Cam Cameron or Wade Phillips hadn't gotten their respective gigs, I believe Marty would still be the HC in San Diego. The Chargers would have promoted a coordinator from within to fill the open coordinator position.When both Cameron and Phillips were offered the head jobs, it put the Bolts in a tough spot. Edited by tommyGunZ

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He knew where was leading. It's bad enough that he worked agaisnt his coach but he didn't protect the team's best interest when he failed to act in order to keep 1 of their coordinators as a possible replacement. Now the team chemistry appears damaged. They are not responding well to the changes and that's on AJ.

If either Cam Cameron or Wade Phillips hadn't gotten their respective gigs, I believe Marty would still be the HC in San Diego. The Chargers would have promoted a coordinator from within to fill the open coordinator position.When both Cameron and Phillips were offered the head jobs, it put the Bolts in a tough spot.
This is an interesting point. Why do you feel that way? Why would having 1 of them keep Marty in the mix?

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Here's an interesting read (posted at PFT) from the Chargers local media:

POSTED 12:58 p.m. EST, November 13, 2007LACK OF DISCIPLINE IN SAN DIEGO? by Michael David Smith The story didn't get much attention, but Kevin Acee of the San Diego Union-Tribune reported on Sunday that some Chargers players stayed out past curfew last Friday in Minneapolis, 36 hours before the team turned in its worst performance of the season in a loss to the Vikings.Jim Trotter of Sports Illustrated reported during an appearance today on ESPN First Take that one of those players was linebacker Shawne Merriman.According to Acee, the team responded to the curfew violation by not only fining the players involved, but also firing director of security Mike Cash, whose job description includes overseeing the security guards on the players' floor at the team's hotel and ensuring that the players are in on time.Whether or not there's any link between the players staying out late and their weak performance against the Vikings, this raises the question of whether there's enough discipline on the Chargers. Marty Schottenheimer, the coach the Chargers fired after last season's 14-2 record and first-round playoff loss, is known for having a good relationship with his players but also for running a tight ship. Norv Turner, the coach brought in to replace Schottenheimer, doesn't have that reputation. Jerry Rice, who played for Turner on the Raiders, once said that Turner "had no control" over the team. Neither Turner nor General Manager A.J. Smith (who made the decision to fire Cash), would discuss the curfew violations. But if the Turner-coached Chargers don't start playing more like last year's Schottenheimer-coached Chargers, the questions about whether there's enough discipline in San Diego are not going away.

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He knew where was leading. It's bad enough that he worked agaisnt his coach but he didn't protect the team's best interest when he failed to act in order to keep 1 of their coordinators as a possible replacement. Now the team chemistry appears damaged. They are not responding well to the changes and that's on AJ.

If either Cam Cameron or Wade Phillips hadn't gotten their respective gigs, I believe Marty would still be the HC in San Diego. The Chargers would have promoted a coordinator from within to fill the open coordinator position.When both Cameron and Phillips were offered the head jobs, it put the Bolts in a tough spot.
This is an interesting point. Why do you feel that way? Why would having 1 of them keep Marty in the mix?
You do realize that the reason Schottenheimer got fired by Spanos was he brought in his brother Kurt to interview for the DEFENSIVE COORDINATOR JOB(vacated by Wade) after Spanos specifically told Marty not to, right? If Wade was still there I'm doubting they are interviewing anyone, let alone Marty's brother for the job.Even if you're right and they pushed Marty out of the job then the reason they specifically brought Norv Turner in is because his offense was supposed to the basis for the Cam Cameron offense and would cause the smallest amount of change from one of the most successful offenses in the NFL last season. If they still had Cam Cameron I don't see any reason they need to bring Norv Turner in and "push out" Marty if Cam is going to be running the offense anyway.For someone that has such strong opinions on the Chargers you seem very fuzzy as to the particulars of what actually happened last off season.

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:moneybag:Sorry, I thought this was a Rivers thread....

It's already been firmly established that you were right and Rivers does indeed suck. People have moved on to having the same argument they've been having for nearly a year now as its infinitely more interesting listening to Family Matters continue to ignore what actually happened in the past to continue his reign of obtuseness. Get with the program.

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