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Moe Green

Philip Rivers Is Terrible

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2 minutes ago, Birdie048 said:

Rumors are Cam Newton to LAC for a 1 year "prove it deal" and possible Draft a QB early.  Not sure I see it as best idea, but offers 2 potential starting QB's

Interesting, seems like Herbert could be a good fit

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2 minutes ago, Birdie048 said:
12 minutes ago, Sneegor said:

It will be interesting to see if the Chargers get a rookie QB or bring in a veteran

Rumors are Cam Newton to LAC for a 1 year "prove it deal" and possible Draft a QB early.  Not sure I see it as best idea, but offers 2 potential starting QB's

Yeah, that is such a stupid thing, the Chargers might just try that. SMH

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2 hours ago, Sneegor said:

Interesting, seems like Herbert could be a good fit

Herbert would be an awful fit. His 2 biggest weaknesses are pocket presence, and accuracy under pressure. The Chargers are arguably the worst o-line in the NFL. Many better players/fits for them at #6.

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5 hours ago, Faust said:

The Colts are a match made in heaven:

  1. 7th in rushing offense and 30th in passing offense.
  2. Brissett was one of the worst starting QBs in the league. Rivers would be an immediate significant upgrade.
  3. PFF graded their pass blocking as #13 in the league last season, compared to #31 for the Chargers.
  4. Defense was solid – PFF graded it as #12 last season, compared to #17 for the Chargers.
  5. Rivers obviously knows and is comfortable with Reich.
  6. IND has $86M in available 2020 cap space, and they could clear another $9M by releasing Brissett; they could release Brissett, sign Rivers, and still have $70M to spend to improve the roster for a Super Bowl shot.

I hope it happens.

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On 1/27/2020 at 6:40 PM, Just Win Baby said:

IMO the fantasy stock goes down for all of the Chargers' primary fantasy skill players in 2020:

  • Allen - not by much, but down... should remain a target hog, but it will take time for him to build the chemistry he had with Rivers with another QB
  • Mike Williams - seriously doubt the new QB will be willing to target him nearly as much when he doesn't have separation (and he typically doesn't)
  • Henry (if re-signed) - depends on the QB, but more than likely down, since Rivers has been super TE friendly during his career
  • Ekeler - down, no way he approaches 92/993/8 receiving with a new QB

...and that is my take whether they sign Brady (which I very seriously doubt) or any other available veteran, roll with Tyrod, and/or draft a rookie.

(Ignoring Gordon since I assume the team will let him walk.)

Seems appropriate to revisit this. Chargers fantasy owners beware.

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8 minutes ago, Just Win Baby said:

The Colts are a match made in heaven:

  1. 7th in rushing offense and 30th in passing offense.
  2. Brissett was one of the worst starting QBs in the league. Rivers would be an immediate significant upgrade.
  3. PFF graded their pass blocking as #13 in the league last season, compared to #31 for the Chargers.
  4. Defense was solid – PFF graded it as #12 last season, compared to #17 for the Chargers.
  5. Rivers obviously knows and is comfortable with Reich.
  6. IND has $86M in available 2020 cap space, and they could clear another $9M by releasing Brissett; they could release Brissett, sign Rivers, and still have $70M to spend to improve the roster for a Super Bowl shot.

I hope it happens.

makes too much sense to not happen....the on only thing holding it back would be phils family  on Florida...but not like he couldnt get a placein Indiana for two three years

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15 hours ago, Sneegor said:

It will be interesting to see if the Chargers get a rookie QB or bring in a veteran

Not really. With the OL telesco has carefully crafted they may as well put a punt returner at QB.

It makes absolutely no sense so I fully expect the chargers to make a big push for Tom Brady. All those folks criticizing Rivers for throwing picks will rush to pat Brady on the back for checking down behind the LOS or throwing the ball away 9/10 pass attempts. What a disaster.

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Great news for Mike Williams. 

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I have mixed feelings if Rivers goes to the Colts.  They could use a one year stop gap if they're unsuccessful in getting Tua or Herbert (not that I like Herbert all that much).

Edited by JohnnyU

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 I will always cheer for Rivers, love his fire and passion, but it seems to me like Brady now, and Peyton before him, the cliff is already here...I wish he could have just retired a Charger...but this is the modern NFL business. 

 

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2 hours ago, Otis said:

Great news for Mike Williams. 

I see it as exactly the opposite.

I think Williams has benefitted more from playing with Rivers than many people realize. Rivers has always been a QB who trusts his WRs to go up and make a play downfield, and he has consistently shown that trust with Williams. Unfortunately, that has hurt Rivers and the offense at times — per PFF, Rivers targeted Williams 85 times this season and threw 8 interceptions on those targets, by far the highest interception rate among all of his targets. When targeting Williams in 2019, PFF shows Rivers with a 67.8 passer rating, and Player Profiler shows him with a 64.1 rating. That’s… not good. That was the lowest rating by far among his primary targets.

Williams does not have great speed and struggles to get separation — this season, he ranked #105 in cushion and #106 in target separation, which means targeting him often means he has to win a contested catch to make the play. These rankings are worse than last season (#77 and #86, respectively), and he did play through an injury this season… but these rankings still were not impressive in either season. And he also seems to frequently be dealing with injuries.

He also had a fairly high drop rate this season. Different sources have different totals, but the link above says 7 drops and  a 7.8% drop rate.

I seriously doubt his new QB will be willing to target him as aggressively downfield as Rivers did. Not when Allen and Ekeler, and maybe Henry if re-signed, are getting better separation.

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15 minutes ago, ffmail4me said:

 I will always cheer for Rivers, love his fire and passion, but it seems to me like Brady now, and Peyton before him, the cliff is already here...I wish he could have just retired a Charger...but this is the modern NFL business. 

 

No one could convince Muhammad Ali not to fight Larry Holmes.

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21 minutes ago, Just Win Baby said:

I see it as exactly the opposite.

I think Williams has benefitted more from playing with Rivers than many people realize. Rivers has always been a QB who trusts his WRs to go up and make a play downfield, and he has consistently shown that trust with Williams. Unfortunately, that has hurt Rivers and the offense at times — per PFF, Rivers targeted Williams 85 times this season and threw 8 interceptions on those targets, by far the highest interception rate among all of his targets. When targeting Williams in 2019, PFF shows Rivers with a 67.8 passer rating, and Player Profiler shows him with a 64.1 rating. That’s… not good. That was the lowest rating by far among his primary targets.

Williams does not have great speed and struggles to get separation — this season, he ranked #105 in cushion and #106 in target separation, which means targeting him often means he has to win a contested catch to make the play. These rankings are worse than last season (#77 and #86, respectively), and he did play through an injury this season… but these rankings still were not impressive in either season. And he also seems to frequently be dealing with injuries.

He also had a fairly high drop rate this season. Different sources have different totals, but the link above says 7 drops and  a 7.8% drop rate.

I seriously doubt his new QB will be willing to target him as aggressively downfield as Rivers did. Not when Allen and Ekeler, and maybe Henry if re-signed, are getting better separation.

It's hard to speculate on the impact without knowing who his new QB will be obviously, but I think your bias for Rivers is showing again by automatically blaming Williams for Rivers' poor metrics while throwing to him.

I'm not 100% sure about these "stats", but their definitions say that "cushion" is the "average cushion afforded to the receiver by his assigned defender on each route run". To me that reads where the defender lines up at the start of a play, doesn't mean anything about "struggling to get separation". Likewise their definition of "target separation" is "A receiver's average yards of separation distance from the closest defense (sic) back at the moment the pass target arrives". Not having much separation when the pass target arrives could be the result of a poor throw, and there were many times last season where Rivers did just that (under threw deep balls allowing the defender to close, etc.). Williams' low catchable target rate and target accuracy also points at least some of the blame at Rivers.

 

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6 minutes ago, humpback said:

It's hard to speculate on the impact without knowing who his new QB will be obviously, but I think your bias for Rivers is showing again by automatically blaming Williams for Rivers' poor metrics while throwing to him.

I'm not 100% sure about these "stats", but their definitions say that "cushion" is the "average cushion afforded to the receiver by his assigned defender on each route run". To me that reads where the defender lines up at the start of a play, doesn't mean anything about "struggling to get separation". Likewise their definition of "target separation" is "A receiver's average yards of separation distance from the closest defense (sic) back at the moment the pass target arrives". Not having much separation when the pass target arrives could be the result of a poor throw, and there were many times last season where Rivers did just that (under threw deep balls allowing the defender to close, etc.). Williams' low catchable target rate and target accuracy also points at least some of the blame at Rivers.

I didn't blame Williams. My point is that Rivers - perhaps ill-advisedly - was regularly willing to target Williams when Williams wasn't open. I'm saying that most QBs won't do that, and, since Williams struggles to get separation, that implies to me that he won't get as many downfield targets.

Edited by Just Win Baby

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8 hours ago, Just Win Baby said:

I didn't blame Williams. My point is that Rivers - perhaps ill-advisedly - was regularly willing to target Williams when Williams wasn't open. I'm saying that most QBs won't do that, and, since Williams struggles to get separation, that implies to me that he won't get as many downfield targets.

It sure seemed like you did, but my point is those "stats" you linked don't demonstrate that he struggles to get separation or wasn't open.

Yes, Rivers chucks it up to Williams at times, but I think most QBs would do that considering he is 6'4" with good ball skills. Rivers also threw a ton of short passes to the RBs, TEs, and Allen, which is perhaps something their next QB won't do as much.

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20 minutes ago, humpback said:

It sure seemed like you did, but my point is those "stats" you linked don't demonstrate that he struggles to get separation or wasn't open.

Yes, Rivers chucks it up to Williams at times, but I think most QBs would do that considering he is 6'4" with good ball skills. Rivers also threw a ton of short passes to the RBs, TEs, and Allen, which is perhaps something their next QB won't do as much.

I did not blame Wiliams. I said that he doesn't get good separation, and I stand by that as someone who has watched every snap of his career.

I'm surprised it is controversial, it was part of the scouting report on him coming out of college. He doesn't win with route running or speed, he wins with size and athleticism with a relatively high amount of his targets being contested.

I will agree to disagree and we'll see how it plays out when his QB is Tyrod Taylor or a rookie.  :shrug: 

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1 hour ago, Just Win Baby said:

I did not blame Wiliams. I said that he doesn't get good separation, and I stand by that as someone who has watched every snap of his career.

I'm surprised it is controversial, it was part of the scouting report on him coming out of college. He doesn't win with route running or speed, he wins with size and athleticism with a relatively high amount of his targets being contested.

I will agree to disagree and we'll see how it plays out when his QB is Tyrod Taylor or a rookie.  :shrug: 

That's fine to have that opinion, but the link you provided doesn't even measure how much separation he gets (during his actual routes), so it's kind of silly to present it as any kind of "evidence" (just like quoting Rivers' poor stats throwing to him is framed as a negative towards Williams). Seems like a red herring to me.

The first thing I said is it's going to depend on who the next QB is, so if the replacement stinks I wouldn't expect things to get better for Williams.  :shrug:

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26 minutes ago, humpback said:

That's fine to have that opinion, but the link you provided doesn't even measure how much separation he gets (during his actual routes), so it's kind of silly to present it as any kind of "evidence" (just like quoting Rivers' poor stats throwing to him is framed as a negative towards Williams). Seems like a red herring to me.

The first thing I said is it's going to depend on who the next QB is, so if the replacement stinks I wouldn't expect things to get better for Williams.  :shrug:

I never framed it as a negative towards Williams. I said RIVERS had his worst passer rating targeting Williams... I said RIVERS targeting him so much when not open hurt the offense. Again, the point is that RIVERS is inclined to try to give his receivers a chance to make plays downfield moreso than most other QBs. Why are you having a hard time grasping this? In my last post, I even said that is was possibly ill-advised on his part... how is that me presenting a negative towards Williams?

The "negative towards Williams" is that he doesn't get open as much as most other WR1/2s. Are you really going to argue this point? For example, this is from his PFF scouting report: "May not create enough separation to fit with every quarterback style. Needs aggressive passer to allow him to win at the catch point in contested situations." That is exactly the point I have been making.

SMH

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On 2/11/2020 at 6:00 AM, travdogg said:

Herbert would be an awful fit. His 2 biggest weaknesses are pocket presence, and accuracy under pressure. The Chargers are arguably the worst o-line in the NFL. Many better players/fits for them at #6.

They aren't going to avoid drafting a quarterback with the 6th pick of the draft because of how he fits the team his rookie year.  If what you say is true, then it just means that they will need to invest in their offensive line if they select Hebert.

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1 minute ago, Don Hutson said:

They aren't going to avoid drafting a quarterback with the 6th pick of the draft because of how he fits the team his rookie year.  If what you say is true, then it just means that they will need to invest in their offensive line if they select Hebert.

They have had a subpar pass blocking OL for more than a decade, and, more importantly, for the entirety of current GM Telesco's 7 year tenure. Why would you expect them to reverse that now?

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25 minutes ago, Just Win Baby said:

They have had a subpar pass blocking OL for more than a decade, and, more importantly, for the entirety of current GM Telesco's 7 year tenure. Why would you expect them to reverse that now?

I didn't say I expected it.  My only point is that the current makeup of a team isn't going to affect whether to draft a quarterback or not.  Drafting a quarterback is about the future, not the present.  If Telesco is philosophically committed to putting in as few resources as possible to the offensive line, then drafting a quarterback that needs protection would not be prudent.  But there is no way to know if that is Telesco's philosophy or if it was situational.  Philip Rivers excelled all the way through 2018 despite an offensive line that was poor at pass blocking.  So Telesco has had no incentive to improve it.  A good general manager adapts to the needs of his team.

Edited by Don Hutson

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8 hours ago, humpback said:

Yes, Rivers chucks it up to Williams at times, but I think most QBs would do that considering he is 6'4" with good ball skills. Rivers also threw a ton of short passes to the RBs, TEs, and Allen, which is perhaps something their next QB won't do as much.

Assuming their next QB will be playing behind a telesco created OL I'm pretty sure they will be throwing plenty of short passes for the foreseeable future.

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9 hours ago, Just Win Baby said:

I never framed it as a negative towards Williams. I said RIVERS had his worst passer rating targeting Williams... I said RIVERS targeting him so much when not open hurt the offense. Again, the point is that RIVERS is inclined to try to give his receivers a chance to make plays downfield moreso than most other QBs. Why are you having a hard time grasping this? In my last post, I even said that is was possibly ill-advised on his part... how is that me presenting a negative towards Williams?

The "negative towards Williams" is that he doesn't get open as much as most other WR1/2s. Are you really going to argue this point? For example, this is from his PFF scouting report: "May not create enough separation to fit with every quarterback style. Needs aggressive passer to allow him to win at the catch point in contested situations." That is exactly the point I have been making.

SMH

Let's once again use the link you provided, including exactly what you quoted- he "may not create enough separation" to fit with the 38 year old Rivers, who struggled to escape pressure, wind up and chuck the ball downfield. Then again, I don't know if many WRs could create enough separation since Rivers struggled mightily in deep ball completion %, interceptable passes, and danger plays.

I get what you are trying to say, I just don't think you're making a very compelling argument. That PFF scouting report you linked is generally very positive for Williams, which is likely why Rivers continued to target him despite no longer having the ability to consistently make those throws. Re-read the "what he does best" section, which is much longer than the negative section you are focusing on- why wouldn't most QBs give him a fair amount of deep targets when he's so good at them even when his QB was not?

Again, this comes back to your man-crush on Rivers IMO- it may have been ill-advised for him to chuck it up to Williams as much as he did, but IMO it's more because of his own deficiencies than Williams'. He's a deep ball weapon, which I believe most QBs would continue to utilize.

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4 hours ago, BoltBacker said:

Assuming their next QB will be playing behind a telesco created OL I'm pretty sure they will be throwing plenty of short passes for the foreseeable future.

Entirely possible, perhaps likely. It's also possible that their next QB will be better able to avoid pressure and extend plays, or be a more accurate deep ball passer, or targets Williams more in the red zone and on shorter/intermediate routes, or a number of other things that could end up being a positive for him. Time will tell.

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4 hours ago, humpback said:

Let's once again use the link you provided, including exactly what you quoted- he "may not create enough separation" to fit with the 38 year old Rivers, who struggled to escape pressure, wind up and chuck the ball downfield. Then again, I don't know if many WRs could create enough separation since Rivers struggled mightily in deep ball completion %, interceptable passes, and danger plays.

I get what you are trying to say, I just don't think you're making a very compelling argument. That PFF scouting report you linked is generally very positive for Williams, which is likely why Rivers continued to target him despite no longer having the ability to consistently make those throws. Re-read the "what he does best" section, which is much longer than the negative section you are focusing on- why wouldn't most QBs give him a fair amount of deep targets when he's so good at them even when his QB was not?

Again, this comes back to your man-crush on Rivers IMO- it may have been ill-advised for him to chuck it up to Williams as much as he did, but IMO it's more because of his own deficiencies than Williams'. He's a deep ball weapon, which I believe most QBs would continue to utilize.

It is clear that you place 100% of the blame on Rivers for his 2019 poor performance when targeting Williams, and I don't. I guess we'll see how it turns out in 2020. :shrug: 

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On 2/10/2020 at 12:01 PM, GroveDiesel said:

Daniel Jeremiah mused that Rivers to the Colts would be a good match. If Rivers has anything left, I agree. Colts should be in a win now mode and do need an upgrade at QB. Could be worth the gamble for them to give him a 1 year deal. And with the Colts having a pretty good O-line, it may be a good match for Rivers as well.

Agree the Colts look to be a nice fit.

I question whether they'll actually go after (and pay) Rivers given they're already paying Brissett quite a bit. I may be wrong as I haven't looked in depth at his deal, but I don't think they can just get out of his deal w/o a financial hit.  Don't see anyone that's going to beat down their down for him as he was exposed badly in 2019.

My opinion of Rivers fit in Tampa will be depend on Ken Whisenhunt presence on Tampa's staff in 2020. He's the  link between Arians & Rivers and would ease the transition for Rivers with a completely new set of players.

Edited by Craig_MiamiFL

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4 hours ago, Just Win Baby said:

It is clear that you place 100% of the blame on Rivers for his 2019 poor performance when targeting Williams, and I don't. I guess we'll see how it turns out in 2020. :shrug: 

:lmao:

Not even close but nice projection. It's clear that you are incapable of having a rational conversation about Rivers so I won't try any longer.

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2 hours ago, Craig_MiamiFL said:

Agree the Colts look to be a nice fit.

I question whether they'll actually go after (and pay) Rivers given they're already paying Brissett quite a bit. I may be wrong as I haven't looked in depth at his deal, but I don't think they can just get out of his deal w/o a financial hit.  Don't see anyone that's going to beat down their down for him as he was exposed badly in 2019.

My opinion of Rivers fit in Tampa will be depend on Ken Whisenhunt presence on Tampa's staff in 2020. He's the  link between Arians & Rivers and would ease the transition for Rivers with a completely new set of players.

Brissett was signed at a reasonable rate actually and don’t the Colts have like 90+ million in cap space?  I’m fine with a 1 year deal for Rivers.

Edited by JohnnyU

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2 hours ago, Craig_MiamiFL said:

Agree the Colts look to be a nice fit.

I question whether they'll actually go after (and pay) Rivers given they're already paying Brissett quite a bit. I may be wrong as I haven't looked in depth at his deal, but I don't think they can just get out of his deal w/o a financial hit.  Don't see anyone that's going to beat down their down for him as he was exposed badly in 2019.

My opinion of Rivers fit in Tampa will be depend on Ken Whisenhunt presence on Tampa's staff in 2020. He's the  link between Arians & Rivers and would ease the transition for Rivers with a completely new set of players.

They have $86M in available cap space. They can release or trade Brissett and save another $9M. They could sign Rivers for $25M, release Brissett, and still have $70M to spend to improve the roster for a Super Bowl push.

I am the biggest Rivers fan in this forum, but I don't think Rivers is just a one year guy. I think he could give 2-3 solid seasons. I think it is viable for them to release Brissett and worry about their QBOTF next offseason or the year after.

I don't know the Colts roster, so I don't know how much they need to spend on internal free agents, but that makes it appear like they could sign Rivers, release Brissett, and improve multiple other position groups. They were 7-9 last season but lost 6 games by 1 score. They could easily be a turnaround candidate with Rivers over Brissett, and if they use that $70M wisely and make a push, they could potentially push for a top 2 AFC seed.

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1 hour ago, humpback said:

:lmao:

Not even close but nice projection. It's clear that you are incapable of having a rational conversation about Rivers so I won't try any longer.

I'm perfectly capable. Throughout our exchange, I have said multiple times that Rivers did not perform well when targeting Williams. I have said that Rivers made ill-advised throws to Williams when he wasn't open. I have specifically assigned blame to Rivers.

You seem to want to argue my points about Williams, not Rivers. So I cited a scouting report that literally said exactly what I have said in this exchange about Williams, yet you still won't concede anything about him. So I agree to disagree and say we'll see, and your response is to say I'm not capable of rational conversation about it.

Whatever, dude. :shrug: 

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On 2/11/2020 at 5:02 PM, flapgreen said:

Big fan

Of sucking?

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47 minutes ago, dickey moe said:

Of sucking?

Of the person.  Pretty good qb, too. 

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@Moe Green must write for the Bleacher Report

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2866001-realistic-trade-packages-and-landing-spots-for-cam-newton#slide1

Panthers receive: 2020 first-round pick, 2021 fourth-round pick

Chargers receive: Cam Newton

We're going to assume a couple of things in this column. Foremost is that a ton of teams won't be lining up to throw first-round picks at the Carolina Panthers—this isn't going to be a Sam Bradford-type situation, where a desperate team overpays to get a quarterback in the spur of the moment.

However, if there's an NFL team that could be in "win now" mode enough to sacrifice a chunk of the future for a shot at success in the present, it's the Los Angeles Chargers.

The Chargers entered the 2019 season with aspirations of a deep playoff run after going 12-4 a year ago. But the Bolts are one of the NFL's biggest underperformers this year—in large part because Philip Rivers has been terrible much of the season. The 38-year old's contract year has been a disaster, with Rivers posting his lowest passer rating in over a decade.

The Chargers have talent at the skill positions and on defense. The offensive line isn't great, but it isn't terrible, either. This is a team that should be a far sight better than 4-8 after 12 games. The window (in theory) is open for the Chargers, but that does them little good if there's no one on the roster who can throw a ball through it.

It's also a Chargers team that's about to move into a brand-new stadium in 2020 and a franchise trying to become relevant in a city that doesn't appear the least bit interested in it. Newton could provide both an upgrade under center and some badly needed buzz.

That Newton's wardrobe is perfect for L.A. is just icing on the cake.

 

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50 minutes ago, BassNBrew said:

@Moe Green must write for the Bleacher Report

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2866001-realistic-trade-packages-and-landing-spots-for-cam-newton#slide1

Panthers receive: 2020 first-round pick, 2021 fourth-round pick

Chargers receive: Cam Newton

We're going to assume a couple of things in this column. Foremost is that a ton of teams won't be lining up to throw first-round picks at the Carolina Panthers—this isn't going to be a Sam Bradford-type situation, where a desperate team overpays to get a quarterback in the spur of the moment.

However, if there's an NFL team that could be in "win now" mode enough to sacrifice a chunk of the future for a shot at success in the present, it's the Los Angeles Chargers.

The Chargers entered the 2019 season with aspirations of a deep playoff run after going 12-4 a year ago. But the Bolts are one of the NFL's biggest underperformers this year—in large part because Philip Rivers has been terrible much of the season. The 38-year old's contract year has been a disaster, with Rivers posting his lowest passer rating in over a decade.

The Chargers have talent at the skill positions and on defense. The offensive line isn't great, but it isn't terrible, either. This is a team that should be a far sight better than 4-8 after 12 games. The window (in theory) is open for the Chargers, but that does them little good if there's no one on the roster who can throw a ball through it.

It's also a Chargers team that's about to move into a brand-new stadium in 2020 and a franchise trying to become relevant in a city that doesn't appear the least bit interested in it. Newton could provide both an upgrade under center and some badly needed buzz.

That Newton's wardrobe is perfect for L.A. is just icing on the cake.

 

Actually, the offensive line was pretty terrible.  https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-offensive-line-rankings-following-2019-regular-season

 

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8 hours ago, BassNBrew said:

@Moe Green must write for the Bleacher Report

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2866001-realistic-trade-packages-and-landing-spots-for-cam-newton#slide1

Panthers receive: 2020 first-round pick, 2021 fourth-round pick

Chargers receive: Cam Newton

We're going to assume a couple of things in this column. Foremost is that a ton of teams won't be lining up to throw first-round picks at the Carolina Panthers—this isn't going to be a Sam Bradford-type situation, where a desperate team overpays to get a quarterback in the spur of the moment.

However, if there's an NFL team that could be in "win now" mode enough to sacrifice a chunk of the future for a shot at success in the present, it's the Los Angeles Chargers.

The Chargers entered the 2019 season with aspirations of a deep playoff run after going 12-4 a year ago. But the Bolts are one of the NFL's biggest underperformers this year—in large part because Philip Rivers has been terrible much of the season. The 38-year old's contract year has been a disaster, with Rivers posting his lowest passer rating in over a decade.

The Chargers have talent at the skill positions and on defense. The offensive line isn't great, but it isn't terrible, either. This is a team that should be a far sight better than 4-8 after 12 games. The window (in theory) is open for the Chargers, but that does them little good if there's no one on the roster who can throw a ball through it.

It's also a Chargers team that's about to move into a brand-new stadium in 2020 and a franchise trying to become relevant in a city that doesn't appear the least bit interested in it. Newton could provide both an upgrade under center and some badly needed buzz.

That Newton's wardrobe is perfect for L.A. is just icing on the cake.

Why post this now when it was apparently written in Nov/Dec?

Newton makes no sense for the Chargers:

  • If they are going for a bridge veteran QB, they already have one that HC Lynn loves in Tyrod. If they are going for QBOTF, they will draft one at #6.
  • Newton has a much bigger cap hit than Tyrod, and the Chargers would have to trade for him and thus give up trade compensation.

As for this article, it loses all credibility with the red text. It also completely ignores the role of coaching in a season in which the Chargers were 2-9 in one score games.

Nothing to see here.

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39 minutes ago, Just Win Baby said:

Why post this now when it was apparently written in Nov/Dec?

Newton makes no sense for the Chargers:

  • If they are going for a bridge veteran QB, they already have one that HC Lynn loves in Tyrod. If they are going for QBOTF, they will draft one at #6.
  • Newton has a much bigger cap hit than Tyrod, and the Chargers would have to trade for him and thus give up trade compensation.

As for this article, it loses all credibility with the red text. It also completely ignores the role of coaching in a season in which the Chargers were 2-9 in one score games.

Nothing to see here.

Because I just read it and hadn't see it posted here.  It says Rivers has been terrible, which is the subject of this thread.

No need to reply further, because I'm going to agree with your response relative to the article.

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If people are going to blame River's performance on the offensive line, lack of separation by WR's, etc.there is really nothing you can say to argue with them.  Anybody that watched him lean back and chuck it saw that it looked like he was trying to throw a medicine ball downfield.  There is a reason Ekeler had 108 targets and 92 receptions and it wasn't all because of the offensive line or lack of separation by the WR's. 148 of his 390 completions (38%) went to the RB. I don't know where that compares, but I really don't care.  My eye balls tells me even HE lost confidence in his ability to complete passes downfield.  Rivers had a 66% completion percentage.  81% completion percentage to his RB's. 59% to everybody else. 

He was and is a liability throwing the ball downfield.  He has lost the zip to fit the ball in tight windows.  While his throwing motion has always been the topic of conversation and medicine ball like, it seems to have gotten worse.  He has lost the zip and that motion allows defensive backs even that much of a better read. His game was always predicated on good decisions, anticipation, and accuracy.... but even those have seen a drastic decline.  I watched a lot of his games, and even his down field completions seemed like you squinted your eyes, hunched your shoulders for a second, and hoped it reached it's intended destination.  Long way of saying....it seemed like it was up for grabs.  You don't want that in your QB. Now I realize the comeback for the Rivers backers will be that the oline sucked and he didn't have times, so yeah he just had to chuck it up, or whatever.  But if you are being honest, that was not the case all the time....many times, he made bad decisions, lacked good anticipation and accuracy, and had very little zip on the medicine ball.  I would cringe if I was a fan of a team that brings him in.  :2cents:

Edited by Stinkin Ref

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2 hours ago, Stinkin Ref said:

If people are going to blame River's performance on the offensive line, lack of separation by WR's, etc.there is really nothing you can say to argue with them.  Anybody that watched him lean back and chuck it saw that it looked like he was trying to throw a medicine ball downfield.  There is a reason Ekeler had 108 targets and 92 receptions and it wasn't all because of the offensive line or lack of separation by the WR's. 148 of his 390 completions (38%) went to the RB. I don't know where that compares, but I really don't care.  My eye balls tells me even HE lost confidence in his ability to complete passes downfield.  Rivers had a 66% completion percentage.  81% completion percentage to his RB's. 59% to everybody else. 

He was and is a liability throwing the ball downfield.  He has lost the zip to fit the ball in tight windows.  While his throwing motion has always been the topic of conversation and medicine ball like, it seems to have gotten worse.  He has lost the zip and that motion allows defensive backs even that much of a better read. His game was always predicated on good decisions, anticipation, and accuracy.... but even those have seen a drastic decline.  I watched a lot of his games, and even his down field completions seemed like you squinted your eyes, hunched your shoulders for a second, and hoped it reached it's intended destination.  Long way of saying....it seemed like it was up for grabs.  You don't want that in your QB. Now I realize the comeback for the Rivers backers will be that the oline sucked and he didn't have times, so yeah he just had to chuck it up, or whatever.  But if you are being honest, that was not the case all the time....many times, he made bad decisions, lacked good anticipation and accuracy, and had very little zip on the medicine ball.  I would cringe if I was a fan of a team that brings him in.  :2cents:

Of course, plenty of the blame for his interceptions falls on Rivers. I don't think anyone denies that. Just not all of the blame.

It's a fact that he was #10 (10th best) in the league in on target percentage (76.7%). It's a fact he was #7 (7th lowest) in bad throw percentage (15.4%). He was better than many notable QBs in both of those metrics. Unfortunately, some of his bad throws were really bad, and there was also a bit of luck and context (game situations, pass protection, injuries, etc.) involved in that.

You say he has had a drastic decline in good decisions, anticipation, and accuracy. I disagree on all three, at least when calling it drastic. IMO the good decisions component is the most debatable, but context matters, and people who don't follow the Chargers and Rivers closely generally don't want to hear about that or disregard it completely. :shrug: 

Hopefully we will get to see him playing somewhere else this season behind good pass protection (e.g., IND), and we'll get to see who is right.

Edited by Just Win Baby

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13 minutes ago, Just Win Baby said:

Of course, plenty of the blame for his interceptions falls on Rivers. I don't think anyone denies that. Just not all of the blame.

It's a fact that he was #10 (10th best) in the league in on target percentage (76.7%). It's a fact he was #7 (7th lowest) in bad throw percentage (15.4%). He was better than many notable QBs in both of those metrics. Unfortunately, some of his bad throws were really bad, and there was also a bit of luck and context (game situations, pass protection, injuries, etc.) involved in that.

You say he has had a drastic decline in good decisions, anticipation, and accuracy. I disagree on all three, at least when calling it drastic. IMO the good decisions component is the most debatable, but context matters, and people who don't follow the Chargers and Rivers closely generally don't want to hear about that or disregard it completely. :shrug: 

Hopefully we will get to see him playing somewhere else this season behind good pass protection (e.g., IND), and we'll get to see who is right.

fair enough....and I didn't watch every snap....but the bolded is probably the biggest part of the problem....his mistakes were often game changing or game ending....he didn't seem to have any "magic" (or whatever you want to call it left)....it seems he is past the point of "just get us the ball, Phil will win it for us"....to waiting for Phil to make the mistake that loses it for you....he doesn't scare you anymore (not sure he ever really did even though his availability and longevity have allowed him to put up good career numbers)....and he has ventured into that area where dbacks are licking their chops if they get to play against him....at some point you can't keep giving a guy credit and keep hanging on to what numbers a guy has put up in the past and you have to honestly look at the current skill set.....if you are a team like INDY and you think you are in a little bit of a window, I'm not sure I'm rolling the dice on sending the message that this is the guy that will "put us over the top".....IMO it would be taking steps backwards.....I'd rather have Bridewater or even the Red Rifle...

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2 minutes ago, Stinkin Ref said:

I'd rather have Bridewater or even the Red Rifle

SMH. I guess we will see. The market will speak.

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